What I’ve Learnt in 18 Years of Business

Eighteen years in business. Eighteen professional and personal questions with Rob Moore.

Wow. Yeah, 18 years. It's quite rare. Most businesses, I think 90% of businesses fail in the first one to three years. And then I think it's up to 90% of them in five, up to 90% of them in 10. I was just at Cambridge University doing an event there, and, yeah, one of the lecturers said that basically 0.1% of businesses end up succeeding for the long term. I mean, you can do your research, but I suppose I should be proud. Yeah. That's like when a child becomes an adult. 18 years, isn't it?

Yeah. Your business can start drinking. Yes. All right, so it started in property. So the first questions are property related. What is the biggest scam in the real estate industry right now?

I have to apologize to my American friends for this. Sorry, not sorry. The biggest scam I'm seeing being pumped out there is that it's better to rent than it is to buy a house. Now, obviously, there's scams like when people hack into your bank and drain your bank account. So that aside, kind of scams that people accept as normal, like saving will make you rich or that it will look after your future. I mean, that's a global scam. It's just. It's not true. And most Americans will say it's better to rent than to buy a house. And I think this proliferated from Robert Kiyosaki, actually, because he was that. I can remember the first person to say that your own home is not an asset. Now, in the uk, you won't be old enough to remember this, mate, but in the uk, we've kind of been raised that our home is our castle. That's even a British saying, your home is your castle. And a big part of securing your pension, your retirement and your future is to get on the housing ladder as early as you can. Yeah, you need mortgage to do that, of course, and then get it paid off as quick as you can. And then you've got something real and tangible that goes up in value that you own, that no one can take away from you. You have full title. And. And that, I believe, is still a truism in the uk. But Kiyosaki said your own home is a liability. And he's technically right, but also wrong. So where he's technically right is that anything that you have to pay money into, if you want a simplistic view, is a liability and anything that pays you money is an asset. That's like the binary ab. Simplistic view, but would you pay a few hundred pounds a month into an asset that might be worth hundreds of thousands or millions in 10, 20 or 30 years that you own outright and you get to use it and live in it? You might go, oh, well, I might. Because people say in America especially that your home is a liability. So what's the option? Rent? Well, 100% of rent is dead money. Now people say to me, oh, no, no, it's not dead money because it's useful, because you have to live. Yeah, but you can buy a house over time. You know, you can essentially pay instalments to buy a house when you have a mortgage, when you own it. So only the interest on the debt is dead money when you pay a mortgage. But all rent is dead money. And if you think about your own home, when you pay rent, you're paying off the landlord's mortgage. So you're actually, you are paying off a mortgage when you rent. It's just your landlord, it's just someone else's. Might as well pay off your own mortgage, not the landlord's mortgage. Also, the highest way to pay monthly for a house is rent in terms of the highest cost. And the lowest way to pay off a house over time is a mortgage. Unless you can get a family loan at 2%, which is unlikely. Now, there's loads of other reasons in the UK why owning a home is better than renting. And I'm not saying renting's a scam, I'm saying that these American influencers who say you should never own your own home, they're one sided, they're myopic. Now look, if you're 21 and you want to travel the world and you want to see the world and you don't have much money, then rent with two or three other mates and travel around the world backpacking with friends, I get that part. But, you know, that's a small part. But most people, you know, 25, 30 plus, having your own home. Because you have your own home, don't you?

Yeah.

And the carpets, the curtains, you can't do anything to it. Someone else's house. Whereas your own home, you can make your own castle. There's something huge to be said for this is my home exactly how I want it. I've got my office here, I've got my living space here, I've got somewhere where it's comfortable to sleep, I've got my own mattress, you know, because sleep's obviously really important. So there's the lifestyle and the element of you being able to optimize your life when you have your own home.

It's the argument, the down payment. So if I've got a massive lump sum, could I invest it elsewhere to see a better return than potentially a rent? If I'm paying, I don't know.

Well, can you live in bitcoin? Can you live in gold? Can you raise a family in bitcoin? Can you raise a family in gold? No, you can't. So if we're looking at it binary, well, what you could do instead of putting the deposit in your own home is buy bitcoin or gold. Absolute no contest. Put it into your own home. Now, across the world the regulations and rules are a bit different. In the UK you've got trade up tax breaks. So basically you can get into a start home, you can work a bit harder, afford an upgrade and when you upgrade, you don't pay any capital gains tax. Maybe in America the state or federal taxes are different. So you know, you've got to do your own research on that. But essentially you can trade up from a starter home to a mansion in 10 or 20 years and not pay any tax on the way up. Now there's other reasons why owning your own home is way better. But one thing I am going to say is I'm going to create the hybrid answer because most people are looking for A or B. But two things can be true.

It's not good for TikTok, Rob.

No, but it's good for life. So let me say that two things can be true. You can love the UK and hate the uk, because I love and hate the uk. So two things can be true. So here's what you can do. You can buy two or three buy to let or small starter homes that you rent out and then you take the net rental income and you use it to pay off a mortgage. So you could take the investment income and use it to buy your own house. Now some people would say, well yeah, I can do that and rent, but your landlord can kick you out anytime. Your landlord can put the rent up a lot. Ground rent service charges on rentals are crazy. Right now we, we've got a building and we don't own the freehold. It's pretty much the only building. We don't own the freehold. And the landlord just said, right, we need to fix the roof. You all need to pay 15 grand. It's 150 grand, you all need to pay 15 grand. No choice, just there you go, there's a 15 grand bill in the End. My business partner took it over. He managed to get another quote. He got it down to like a third of the price. But my business partner has been an investor and entrepreneur 20 years. Everyone else is like, oh shit, 15 grand. Oh okay, yeah, we'll pay it. And all these things can happen in a rental. They probably aren't going to happen in your own home. But the smart play is to use income from assets to own liabilities. And the Americans think that your mortgage is a liability. I personally don't, but I get what they say. But definitely cars and holidays. Liabilities. My first Lamborghini, the Lamborghini aventador, it was 310 grand new 2015. And I think we paid 255 for it, my business partner and I, because we share some cars. And what we did was we bought this property for 800 grand. We spent max, another six refurbing it. It's now worth three and a half. We cut an old club into 32 flats essentially and we've got maybe 36 tenants in it. And the income from that pays for the Lamborghini Aventador, the Aston Martin DBS, the Porsche 911 Turbo. And then so what we did, instead of buying the Aventador, we didn't even put the money in. We got a third party investor. He put all the money in to buy it, all the money in to refurb it. We gave him a split. We took a split. Our split pays for the Lamborghini, the Aston Martin, the Porsche, or with someone else's money.

That's what 18 years in business gets you. All right, now I'm injured. What is your craziest tenant story?

Okay, so this is actually my business partner and he has £16 million worth of property. And I taught him how to invest in property. He was about 150 grand in debt. I taught him how to invest in property. He ended up quitting his job. He's actually now my business partner, one of our top trainers and he had this tenant and she was, I believe, often a bit late on the rental payments. So he ended up sleeping with her and now he's married to her. There might be a bit in the middle that you've assumed that. I'm not saying he did, but it's a novel way to get your rent free payment. Yeah. So my business partner is still married to her, by the way. Oh wow. Yeah, yeah. Been married for years. They've got children together. So I mean you, some people would say you shouldn't sleep with your tenants. He would probably disagree.

Yeah, well.

You weren't expecting that. No, I wasn't. I'd just like to say it's not Mark Homer because everyone might be thinking, oh, that's Mark Homer because we have what I think we have 1350 tenants that we manage. I think we have 350 in our portfolio. And I am 99.9 recurring percent sure my business partner, Mark Homer, does not sleep with our tenants. Just in case.

No, he would definitely prefer the rent, wouldn't he?

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What'S the biggest property deal you've ever done?

Okay, right, so we bought a ground floor department store with two upper floors of completely empty space and we developed another two floors above. So it's now four stories. We, it's about 30,000 square foot I believe on the ground floor. We took 1/5 of that, sliced it up and we rent it out for 50 odd grand a year. We took the 4 fifths remaining which is High street department store, you'd know the name. We took that and we sold it for almost the same money that we bought the entire block. So we bought the entire block for 3.8 million. We sold 4/5 of the bottom floor for 3.6 million. We sold the ground rent, basically the freehold for 12 times the yearly income. And then we developed the upper two storeys into four and converted them into 100 apartments with 146 tenants. 135,000 square feet, which if you put that in central London, that would be about £200 million. Wow. It's in central Peterborough, so it's not quite £200 million. But yeah, we did that in our 30s.

Could you retire on that one deal?

Yep, yep, I could retire myself, my business partner, his wife, my wife, our kids, their kids. We could sell everything else we've got, you know our, I think we've got 12 companies could sell all of our cars, the 300, not other properties, sell the 1400 odd management company properties, sell everything, sell all the gold, sell all the watches, sell the lot. Or you could have it all, take it all away. This one building. Yeah, retire forever. It's a seven figure a year income just from one building.

How long did it take?

Five years. Start to finish, build out was three years. It was planning and faffing that took the first two.

You always had a bit of a global situation going on.

Yeah, we had lockdown in the middle. Yeah, there was £35,000amonth of outgoings of loans and then the crane hire and all the, all the people on top, you know, 40, 50 grand a month of outgoings which were at risk. But we got it, we got it done. Yeah. It's called Aspect House in Peterborough. For anyone who is skeptical and doesn't believe me and wants to research it.

If you can retire, you, your parents, your wife, your kids, why don't you?

Because that would be almost a torturous living hell to have nothing really to do for, for the next 50 years of my life and were I to retire from what I'm doing, I'd end up starting again doing what I'm doing. So, you know, all my content on social media, all my business related books, my money school platform, you know, my personal vision is to help as many people on the planet get better financial knowledge. So I don't really like holidays. I have ginger beard, so I don't do very well in the sun. I, I go from white to pink to white to pink. So I hate the sand, can't stand the sand, can't stand the sea. I watch Jaws as a kid, I'm scared of the sea. So holidays never work for me unless it's business trips. As you know, we go on business trips and I found this with a lot of people who are entrepreneurial is, you know, they get the most satisfaction from packing a day and getting loads of work done. And that's me. By the way, I have tried retirement a few times. When I wrote Life Leverage, I retired. I retired when my son was one of the top golfers in the world. And I took him around the world and it was kind of okay for a bit when my son was playing golf because I could focus on helping him be a great golfer, basically be his coach and his caddy and. But you know, I made that my full time job. So there are just some types of people that they just want to work and they just want to build and they just want to create. And I am one of those.

What's the biggest myth in real estate?

The biggest myth in real estate is that property won't keep going up. It'll crash. It can't keep going up forever. A lot of people say that. Do your own research. But check this. In 1088, there was a survey done, I think for tax purposes, of the value of all the land and real estate in the UK. If anyone is watching on the YouTube, have a guess in the comments how much you think the entire bank of land and Property in the UK was in 1088. I give them 30 seconds. If you're listening on the audio, go to the YouTube, type it in. You have a think in your head. Have you heard me say this before? I'll say, you know, all right, so we have a thousand years of data in property. Bitcoin could go to zero because we don't even have two decades of data gold. We've got thousands of years of data. So the more history you have of an asset, the best way to predict the future is to look back through the past. So meme coins might have days or weeks of history, which is why most of them go to zero. Stock market investing, however old that is, you know, in the early hundreds of years, not thousands or tens of thousands. So if you can go back far enough and find the price of something, if over time it keeps going up, that's the best indicator that in the future it will keep going up. So the furthest I've been able to go back in property is about a thousand years, which is pretty good data. And the total value of all the land and property a thousand years ago in the UK was £1 million. Now in Central London, Kensington, Chelsea, Knightsbridge, you'd be lucky to get a car parking space for a million pounds. You definitely wouldn't be able to get a one car garage for a million pounds. So people think that property could go to zero. But how, how can property go to zero? How? The only way property could go to zero is if we have no use for it anymore.

Yeah.

Now bitcoin, we don't really have a use for it. Okay. It's a store of value, but doesn't really have any other utility. So all you need is a lack of trust or one big regulation. By the way, I'm not a bitcoin hater. You know, I've got bitcoin. I like bitcoin, I like decentralization. I think the blockchain is a great technology. But the only time real estate could go to zero is if we never need shelter anymore. We just don't need houses. So we just knock all of them down in the UK because we, we are our shelter. Which obviously even, even with the weirdest future tech, that's never going to happen. Now, does the property market correct? Yes. Does it at times crash?

Yes.

And the biggest crash I've ever seen is about 30%. But it recovers pretty quickly. And the curve isn't a 45 degree angle. Well, it is actually the curve is a 45 degree angle or whatever degree. But you know, when you zoom in and you zoom in and you zoom in and you zoom in, it peaks and troughs, but within the upward ascendancy. So that's the biggest myth in real estate.

So over the next five to ten years.

Oh, wait a minute, I've got one other big cheeky myth if you want, in the uk, go on. That landlords are scum. Because if you vote for Labour or, or you believe the labor propaganda, you believe that all landlords are scum. The, you know, they're profiteering, they're slum landlords. There are some slum landlords. There are many great landlords. There are many slum tenants and there are great tenants. We have many great tenants in our property and we give them lower rent for longer term because we don't ever want them to leave. Why would we? So, yeah, this sort of scum slum landlord thing, it's the exception to the rule.

People always want to hate the rich.

In the UK they do. I don't think in Dubai they do. I don't think in America they do. I think in Holland they do. I think in Scotland they do. I think in the UK they do. I think it's a culture that's not pervasive around the world, but it's rife in the uk.

Why do you think that is?

I think on an individual level people hate the rich people because they want to be rich. Like let me ask anyone who disagrees with that, would you like a shitter car? Would you like a shitter house? Would you like a shitter holiday? And you know people say money isn't everything. Well it is when you don't have any. So I think if we look inside ourselves we'd like more money.

How's your opinion changed towards the rich from going 50 grand in debt to millionaire at 30?

Well look, I just said on an individual level, people hate the rich because they want. Now look, I just said on an individual. Now look, I just said on an. Now look, I just said on an individual level people hate the rich because actually they want to be rich and therefore it's envy. But it's also propaganda, propaganda on how billionaires are evil propaganda on how millionaires and billionaires illegally evade taxi propaganda by parties like labor who make enemies of the rich even though they're all paid by the rich. So I think one get your own house in order. Get around inspiring, open minded, get around open minded, inspiring, motivated people who want to create, want to build. Maybe you need to get out of the country that you're in if you're engulfed with negativity and hatred towards successful people. Now I therefore believe the propaganda. When I was 50 grand in debt, I remember there was a guy who used to go out on the town was a similar age to me and he drove a Ferrari and he was the only guy anywhere near our age who had a Ferrari in the city. I didn't know him and I hated him and I assumed I thought he was a drug dealer even though he made out that, you know, he was, I think a solicitor. But I just thought, yeah, that's a front. A solicitor's going to be able to afford a Ferrari. Rich people screw people over. You can only get rich doing illegal stuff or, you know, being a tax evader. And this is what I thought. But where did I get these ideas from? I didn't dream up these ideas myself. I got these ideas from the media. I got these ideas from other people around me who got these ideas from the media. And so it's propaganda. And this is one of the reasons why I'm so happy that legacy and mainstream media is being disrupted. And now you can go and do more of your own research and you can go and follow the rich people and find out how they got rich and scams. I know there's more of them now, but they're also so much more easy to expose. And so the two reasons I hated the rich were because I was envious, because I was a loser and I wanted what they had. And two, because of the mainstream media propaganda. And how I overcame that was I put myself in situations where I started to get to know wealthy people and the evidence became different. So I've got dear friends like Gerald Ratner and Al Barratt and Neville Wright and James Watt, who. They're not arrogant, they're not tax evaders. Of course, they minimize their tax with good accountancy practice. Who doesn't? They're giving people, they're kind people. And they're not the propaganda that you've been pushed about what a millionaire and a billionaire is. And until you know a load, don't judge.

That's the key in the next five or 10 years. What are you more bullish on? Property or bitcoin?

Property, of course.

Why?

Because you can gear up and leverage property. 70%, 65% on commercial, maybe. Property has got a thousand years of proven growth. Bitcoin has got couple of decades. Bitcoin's probably going to keep going up and it's probably got enough history now, but it's more risky, it's more volatile. I know much more about real estate. You're much more likely to get money to put into real estate than you are into bitcoin from lending from traditional banks and probably from just private investors. Bitcoin's still quite a specific, niche, technical thing. Most people still don't know how to buy bitcoin. I know anyone watching this says, yeah, it's easy. Who already buys bitcoin and who already knows how to do it? But if you talk to the average person on the street, they don't yeah, there's all this talk that bitcoin could become a reserve. And, you know, obviously Trump's now pretty pro bitcoin, but actually he's pro crypto. And all these bitcoin evangelists, like, yeah, bitcoin's going to go to the moon. Trump loves bitcoin. No, Trump loves his own coin. Trump coin. Trump loves crypto. That is, Trump will have a coin and Melania will have a coin. He's not championing bitcoin, he's championing his own wealth and crypto as a potential reserve currency, not necessarily bitcoin. So bitcoin is really dependent on, you know, the leaders of the free world, like Donald Trump or whoever the president is. Bitcoin could go to zero. I'm not saying it's not, and I've got money in bitcoin, so. But I have been doing real estate a lot longer. I know it a lot better, so I'm more bullish on real estate. I think a crash is coming in real estate, but millionaires and billionaires love real estate. Corrections.

How are you going to cash in on that?

Well, just the best time to buy property is at the lowest point in its cycle. If you think about it, if you think common sense, what, what do you do with an asset? Buy low, sell high. Now, I don't sell, so I buy, hold, die. But if you think a cycle normally lasts about 18 years, you'll have a trough and a peak, you'll have a low and a high in that cycle. So if you could time it, which you can't, you do know what's going to happen. If you look back through history, you just don't know when. But if you could time it, you'd buy at the bottom point in the cycle. And a correction, well, London's really corrected. Do you know some places in central London, like maybe Knightsbridge, Kensington, Chelsea, the prices are lower than 2016 prices now. So that quietly went under the radar. London is now cheap, relatively, and there's reasons for that. But some parts are already low, relatively. Some parts are coming.

Does that mean you're staying cash rich at the moment, so you can make the most of that?

I don't want to be cash rich. I want to be liquidity rich. I want to be asset rich. The problem with cash is inflation wipes it out. The problem with cash is security issues. The problem with cash is the banks can just debank you like they did my friend Nigel Farage, just like that. So this whole thing, cash rich, it's a dream of the broke, even these big investors, Michael Berry, Warren Buffett, who say they're selling all assets and they're, they're holding cash. They're not holding billions in cash, they're holding billions in liquid assets that they can move really quickly. So I prefer to be liquid than heavy on cash. Cash is a problem. Anyone who's rich, cash is a problem. It's a first world problem. But it's a problem because it's devaluing, being deflated by inflation. I always believe that real inflation figures, real inflation to you will, what it really is in your life is much higher than what they say. You know, you've got cpi, rpi, you've got CPIH or CPHC basically with housing in it. And that determines a set basket of goods. But your lifestyle might mean that, let's say you travel a lot, hotels have gone through the roof. So if you travel a lot, your personal inflation is really high. Food's gone up a lot. If you're in the UK, energy's gone up 2 to 300%. The biggest increase in a lot of people's life. Inflation is, is a mortgage and interest rates and that's not in most of the inflation figures. So inflation is the increase in prices and the devaluation of money. And of course they've got all this quantitative easing and all this money printing. They printed nearly a trillion in lockdown. That's got to be paid back. So yeah, cash, you want to minimize cash and maximize assets, maximize income, maximize liquid assets. Boom.

Change of pace.

Slower or faster? Harder. It's hard.

A pace, a rhythm, it's whatever you want it to be. What's the most opulent purchase you've ever made in your 18 year career?

Well, probably flying helicopters, I suppose. I have a seven bed house, but I wouldn't call it a mansion. And I've owned it for nine years. I kind of like Warren Buffett's way of buy a house you love that fits your purpose and stay in it forever. So, you know, my house at the time was my biggest expense probably. But now with inflation and house prices gone up crazy, it's a seven bed house, but it's not a mansion. I could buy a mansion, but flying helicopters I would say is pretty opulent. I think that's something that most people don't or can't do because of how much it costs to learn, then to own, then to fly, then to fuel.

Um, how much did it cost you?

Hundreds of thousands. I, I don't know that the total amount, hundreds of Thousands. Yeah. I mean, you. You could spend 5 million on a helicopter if you want. You could spend 200 grand maybe, but that's one way you're like this. It's like a little Hornet. That's what I Learned on the R22, where I have to get in like this. People talk about freedom. No one knows freedom until you have flown solo in a helicopter for the first time, I. E. You're the pilot and you're on your own, and it's the first time you're able to take off on your own without your instructor. Like, I've tasted financial freedom, location freedom. I've even tasted freedom of the mind at times. But when you've done your 15 or 20 hours of learning to fly and your instructor surprises you and says, right, I'm getting out, and now you're flying solo and you're nervous as shit because you've never done it before and you didn't know that today was going to be the first time you flew solo. And so, you know, you pull up the collective lever and. Because half the weight or half the weight of the helicopter has gone. Because in an R22, when you're like this, the biggest weight is almost the people in it, because it's a tiny little thing. And so you pull up really slowly, but you end up flying up because it's so much lighter, and you pull off to the left because the weight's all on your side, and you gain control, and then it's virtually silent. And you are almost up at cloud level, looking down, flying over your city on your own. There is no greater freedom in the whole world. It's the most. I now know how someone who's been imprisoned for two decades wrongly feels the day they get released. It's the same as when you fly a helicopter for the first time on your own.

That's a big statement there.

I remember Mark and I, my business partner, we'd been in business maybe four or five years. We'd made, you know, in the low millions. And I remember walking into town with him and I said, we should do something to celebrate, you know, because we've done all right. And I said to him, what about if we both learn to fly? And he was like, yeah, let's fucking do it. Let's learn to fly. So, yeah, we. What? Must have been not quite 15 years ago, but not far off, both learn to fly. He still flies quite regularly. I did it hobbyist. It's too much of a fucking faff. This recent budget should warn you that Your pension is not safe and secure and they're coming for your inheritance. Do you even know how much is in your pension or where your pension is invested? Add to this the recent inheritance tax grab on your pensions and the risk of a market crash. You probably didn't know this and I didn't until recently. Recently, but physical gold can be added to your pension pot. Gold is inheritance tax free and has grown 700% in the last 20 years. You probably know from my content I'm investing heavily in silver and gold and that's why I've partnered with direct bullion. Myself and Nigel Farage are brand ambassadors and direct bullion can help you with gold to protect and grow your pension. I buy my gold and silver from direct bullion and I don't earn any money on any purchases of gold or silver. If you buy direct from direct bullying. So if you go to robmore.directbullion.com you can get a great price on your silver and gold and you can get the pension gold investing guide completely for free. As you know, I don't do many strategic partnerships and when I do, I do them with people who are credible, who've been doing it a long time, who invested things that I invest into. And gold and silver's going wild. I'm investing heavily in gold and silver. I and I recommend you check out robmore.directbullion.com checks. You've got to do all the planning of the journeys for me to drive the eight miles to the airfield, to do all the pre flight routines and all the, you know, pre takeoff checks and everything to then fly to the location. It's quicker. Just have my driver drive me there and I can work in the back of the car.

It must be nice when you're just up in the air and you're like, oh, I own that house and that building and that one.

Yes, I did that. Yeah. So one one of the first things I did when I passed my helicopter license is I flew over my city and viewed where all my properties were aerially, planned it out on the map. When I learned to fly, you still had the physical paper maps. Now you have it obviously on your iPad, but yeah, and I mapped out all the journey and you're drawing on because you get this map which is laminated and you map out drawing with your sort of semi permanent markers and planned out my journey. And we own this building and that building and this building. And I remember just flying around, I'm what, 700ft above my city. I feel like I own the whole fucking city. Wait a minute. I want to own that. I want to own that. I want to own that. Yeah, it's. It's an amazing experience. I did. I do own a watch that's more than the helicopter. I passed my testing, so I suppose that's a bit opulent to have a watch that's more than your helicopter.

Well, that was. My next question is, do you buy watches as investments or because you can?

Both. I buy if I'm honest. I like to portray that I'm an investor. I am. I like to portray that I buy wisely in appreciating assets. I do, and I've got lots of examples. But most of my watches I bought emotionally and justified with it will go up in value or it won't go down. Now, every watch I've ever sold I've made money on, but all the ones I haven't sold, I don't know if I'll make money on them because I haven't sold them yet. And definitely there's some of them that have gone down. So I can say I've made money on every watch that I've sold, which is true because I've kept the rest. But, yeah, so, I mean, the one I'm talking about, the Richard Mille, I mean, that was an emotional purchase, really.

How much did it cost?

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So if we was to figure, I don't know, to like the nearest thousand pounds.

The nearest thousand pounds, you probably want to round it to the nearest hundred thousand pounds. Okay, so, but the problem with watches, I don't wear that really anymore. That's just stored. I'd never go to London wearing that kind of watch. You don't get the same level of enjoyment out of it. Actually, it's weird because I always used to think when people would say things like, oh, you know, Porsche 911 is the best car because they've had Ferraris and had Lamborghinis and you know, you can't drive them anywhere and you can't go over speed bumps and, you know, people are always looking at you. And I just used to think, now you've probably just failed and you've just resorted to getting, you know, a fairly middle of the road Porsche because you've failed in life. I still have my Aventador, I still have the Ferrari Testarossa, I have the Aston Martin DBS. But actually the best car to drive is the 911 Turbo S. And I probably prefer now, you know, 100 Grand Patek or AP than A, you know, a very expensive Richard Mille. And actually there's arguments to say that maybe a gold Rolex Daytona is better than all of them because you get a gold Rolex daytona in the 30s thousands and that thing will be in the hundreds of thousands in a couple of decades. Like if I was purely buying with my head, every watch I'd ever buy would be a Rolex Daytona. It would just be the steel one, the old steel one, the older steel one, the gold one, the older gold one, the oldest gold one, the new limited edition one, the old limited edition one, the oldest limited edition one, like, but, you know, I suppose that's like marrying the girl next door when you're 18 and staying with her forever. I don't know that that's a good analogy.

No, but we'll leave it in.

And I've been married for 18 years.

There you go.

18Th company birthday. 18 years married to my wife.

Oh, wow.

So, yeah, keep buying Rolex Daytona steel or gold over time. When you have spare money, buy a Rolex Daytona, buy another One buy another one. That's probably the best way to get rich. It's watches. But yeah, both by a bit with my heart, a bit with my head. I've learned that things like lockdown can really create surprise in a watch market. I've learned that things go in and out of fashion. So when I was buying Nautilus, as they weren't in fashion and I was paying in the 20s and 30s for them, now they're in the hundreds. And then I was buying the big APs like this, they were really in fashion, they were going up and now they're not so much in fashion. Probably the worst watch investment I bought so far would be my Arnold All Stars. I bought an Arnold Schwarzenegger limited Edition All Stars, 48mil. It's a piece of big chunk of gold like as big as my head. And I put it on, it's like balling beling beling. Which obviously in London they'd cut your arm off at the elbow, they'd hack it off at the shoulder to take that watch because of how much gold's in it. But I mean, I paid in the 50s for that. Or just under thinking I'd bought. Well, that's dropped a shitload. Big watches aren't in fashion anymore, so I just keep them because big watches will come back in fashion one day.

See, this will be a generational thing we call that boy math.

What's boy math?

Where you buy something emotionally and you try and make it logical in your head that it's a good decision. I'm buying this watch because I fucking want it. But every watch I've ever sold I've always made money on. So this must go. And you try and rationalize it to be like a good investment decision, but it's completely an emotional purchase.

Yeah. For the Arnold All Stars. Odomarp Gay. I will take that. That. That's what I did. Although it was and is a limited edition, I also bought the T3. So basically every Arnold limited edition Royal Oak off, sure, I bought and I love Arnie and I don't want him to die, but when he dies, it's probably going to be good for the price of my watches. So let's come back to that boy math.

Yeah. In.

In a few years time. But here's another thing on the watch, I could talk about this all day. I buy limited editions because generally a rule for investing is the more scarce the supply versus the demand, the more likely it is to go up. So this was a limited edition one. It did go up a fair bit. It's probably settled back down at what I paid for it. But what if you love it? Like, what if you love it? What if you get a lot of passion and enjoyment out of it? I probably haven't really lost money in this watch. I might have made a bit. I. I've had it for years. I love wearing it. The end.

I was talking to somebody about this yesterday. I think because of the circles we're in, sometimes there's a guilt around spending money. It's almost like everything you spend should be investing into making more, whereas sometimes. Can you just spend it? Because I fucking can.

Well, the mass population probably should have more guilt about spending money because they're just wasting it on depreciating liabilities. What you're talking about is quite a low percentage of people who are quite well educated financially, I. E. They know whether an item, an asset is going to go down or up. So personally, I love buying shit. I don't love it as much as I used to because I've learned to appreciate what I've got, not just want what I haven't got. For example, people say to me, rob, when you're getting the new Lamborghini Revuelto, I'm not because I love my Lamborghini Aventador. Actually think it looks better, actually think it sounds better. What's wrong with, like falling in love with what you've got? I've already got one of the best Audemars Piguet, Royal Oak Offshores, and they're making all these crazy concepts that are hundreds of thousands and one of ones that for me, that, for me that's probably the best. So one, learn to love what you've got and not want more of depreciating liabilities. Two, if you want something, do the maths. So you call it boy maths. So that basically means not doing the maths. Do the maths. So I buy Alexander McQueen and there's two things I do which make them basically free, which I'm not going to say here, but maybe at one of our live events like Moneymaker Summit we're at. I might. I've bought high end hi fi. I love high end hi Fi. And if you buy it at the bottom of the depreciation curve, you can even sometimes make a bit of money on it. If you buy a Porsche 911 Turbo S4, five years old. I bought my Aston Martin DBS for 136. It was 305 new. It's hardly gone down. It's probably what, 125 now, I think it's hardly gone down. It's almost free use. So you can do that, you can minimize the depreciation. You can wait and buy your clothes in the sales in a country where the currency is the best. So we went to Dubai recently and I went around the mall, but the pound is so weak, I didn't bother buying any clothes out there. But I saw what I liked and then I came back. So I love Etro, it's for holidays and I like their sort of paisley polo shirts and, you know, twice a year they put them in the sale and they're what, four or five hundred quid? And in the sale they're 175 quid. There you go. So. And if you do that with your life, if you buy this equipment for your podcast secondhand instead of new, then it's not boy math.

No, here's what is boy math. And you've really made me laugh this. So we've just been to Dubai, they're banned E Sims. Bearing in mind how much social media you do, I did not see you spend the £6 a day on data out of principle. But you have eight supercars.

Yeah, so I refused to get ripped off by data and just use wi fi. Yeah, hey, yeah. I also, you know what the cost of a bottle of champagne was out there. So after that I refused to drink champagne.

That was absurd.

I refused to pay 300, 400 dirhams for a steak. Yeah, don't go broke trying to look rich. And you get rich cumulatively with your. With every spending and investing and purchasing decision. So Mark thinks I'm crazy because I spend probably 12 quid a day on Starbucks coffee. I always end up buying the homeless guy one as well. So it was. Cost me a lot more. But that for me has a return because that coffee or, you know. But Mark just like, just get it at home, save 10 quid a day. 10 quid a day compounded over 30 years is 8% return is hundreds of thousands of pounds. So if you look at 10 or 20 quid a day compounded over 30 years, 8% return, it can be hundreds of thousands of pounds. So it's not nickel and diming, it's just being smart with your money. And then what you do is when you're going to do it and you've decided to do it, then you do it fucking big.

Well, speaking of doing it fucking big, what's your wildest supercar story? What's your.

Well, wild. Unfortunately, I Haven't got a. Yeah, I raced Andrew Tate or the. The King of Monaco in my Bugatti Chiron, but I had had my Lamborghini Aventador five days. And of course, I used to drive it. Not like I nicked it, but the opposite. I don't know if you've heard the Will Smith song, Two Miles an Hour. So everybody sees. So you know when someone wants to show off their car, not when they're driving it fast, but when they're driving it really slow. And I was driving it really slow coming up to that massive roundabout. You know, there's all the traffic in the rush hour, and the thing just stopped and every light went on, including all the hazards and all the flashes and every light on the dashboard. And the thing just broke down in the middle of the. Is there four lanes there?

Yeah.

And I was stuck there for four, maybe five hours. Gridlocked the whole city. Every, what, five minutes, People passing.

Yeah.

Rather break down in a Lamborghini, actually, in that moment, I wish I had a Mini. And, yeah, in the end, a low loader came and picked me up. I had a. After about two hours, the two police cars came and they sort of, like, cordoned it off. And I sat in the police car for three hours just talking to the police officers. So, yeah, that was pretty embarrassing. That happened in my Ferrari 430 Spider. An Indian wedding. So I parked right outside the hotel at an Indian wedding with probably, if anyone's ever been to an Indian wedding, they are massive. Like, they start at 500 people and go up and so I parked right outside the hotel where there was this Indian wedding where they saw hundreds of. Of Indians and the fucking Ferrari broke down right outside and it stuck out there for the whole Indian wedding. That was a bit embarrassing. And then I had a Ferrari 458 Spider. I took my son out in it for the first time and he got a hole in one on the third hole. Local course at age three with a five iron. And I was like, man, my jeans. My jeans are so good. Here I have already raised the world. Number one golfer. Forget Tiger woods is Bobby Moore. He's only three. But anyway, I got really, like, bipolar excited, got in, dropped Bobby off at home, got in that Ferrari and razzed it and drove it like, I nicked it. Came around this corner here in a straight line straight into News International building, you know, where the Sun. Yeah, and all these tabloid newspapers in the uk, like, I crashed right into the side of the building over about 70 yards of trees and Bushes, like if you go back now, there's like a gap there. And I was lucky. I probably, if I'd have been a bit left or a bit right, I'd have crashed into posts, probably would have died. I remember getting out and the fucking car, you couldn't even recognize it was crumpled bits. And I walked around in shock into the building and I, I just went to reception, I said, he's the facilities manager of the building here and she's. Anyway, a guy came down, actually recognized him from the gym. He said, all right mate, how you doing? I was like, yeah, I've had a bit of an accident in your car park. He's like, okay, yeah, that happens quite a lot where if you, you know, come show me and we'll have you reversed into a post or reverse into a car. And we, we took him around the corner and he just went and he saw this five day old Ferrari in like a thousand bits. And by the way, this Ferrari that we'd had for five days I co owned with my business partner. So then I had to phone up my business partner so I phoned up Mark and I was like, mate, I've had a bit of an accident in the car, it's a bit of a mess. He was like, oh, don't worry, we used to take our cars, we still do down this local like panel beater repairer place. I said, look, just send it down to them, you know, they'll tap it around, they'll sort it out. I said, it's a, it's a bit more of a problem than that, Mark. And I sent him the photo and he was like, so anyway, yeah, it was. I, I am ranked on the world's most expensive crashes website.

Nice. I'm sure they updated that blog post two minutes after swearing to their building.

So it's some like that's two cars that I've had within a week that I have either totaled. That was almost a write off. It was, yeah, it was a few grand away from a write off. I, we ended up selling that car and we made, I think we made money on that car.

Well, it's famous.

Yeah.

All right, so I'm gonna quick fire. What's the best piece of business advice you've ever received?

It's not what you know, it's who you know.

Explain that for me.

Well, if you know five billionaires, you're not gonna have a problem raising money. If you're mentored by five deca millionaires, you, you're not going to have a problem Solving your money problems. If you've got the best senior team of head of sales, head of marketing, head of finance around you, you can step away from your business and they can run it for you. So it's not what you know, it's who you know.

And any top tips on growing your network if you're starting from zero.

When we started 20 years ago, we used to have to go to live meetings and meet people and shake their hand and talk to them face to face. And that's probably quite underrated now. So it's pretty easy to see where entrepreneurs that are influential that you might want to hang around, or millionaires or billionaires. It's pretty easy to find out where they are now. One, they're probably in Dubai or Monaco or wherever, so you can spend more time there and travel more and run it as a business expense. But two, follow them all on social media. They tell you where they go and they update their stories where they are. So I actually think that's the most underrated way. But the other ways you can do it is go to business type events that are set up specifically for, for business owners, angel and Dragon type investing events where people go and pitch and there's investors there. Yeah. And then just following them all on the social media and engaging with them. Here's a great hack and this is what you teach. Start a podcast and go and interview them all. People say to me, is it, Is it the views and downloads that's the best thing about your podcast? Because we get about 150 to 200 million views and downloads a year. Nope. Is it the money you've made on your podcast that's the best thing about the podcast? We made tens of millions out of it, front and back end. Is that the best thing? Nope. It's all the people I know, the 26 billionaires I've met, the partnerships, the collaborations, that's by far the best asset that's come out of my podcast.

What's the worst piece of business advice you've ever received?

No one will do your job as well as you.

Explain that one for us.

If you want a job done properly, do it yourself. This advice proliferates from most small businesses who struggle with hiring. And for many people, a small business isn't freedom. It's actually just working for a worse boss, doing more hours because they had a dream that working for themselves was freedom. But they become micromanagers. They can't let go. They're not good at letting other people make mistakes. They're not good at letting other people do things their way, not your way. They say that. Oh, well, the customers just want to talk to me. Well, they do right now. But what if there was a better salesperson than you? What if there was a better marketer than you? There's a better everything than you. Maybe the thing that you're best at is having a broad knowledge of your business, but there's someone who's better at all the specifics and technicalities of everything in your business. So you have to let go to grow.

You've got multiple different income streams. How do you pick? Now? What is a good venture and good use of your time versus another shiny object?

Okay, so number one, is this business model a good business model for the future? Which for me probably means, has it got some proof from the past? Because, you know, jumping onto every meme coin or launching your own meme coin has major risks and downsides. So is this a good business model, I. E? I think it's got growth in the future, maybe exponential, but it's also got some history of the past. You could say AI or the evolution of the Internet or the evolution of social media that probably, for example, ticks the boxes. Information people have always paid to learn. And with the world being really overwhelmed right now, that's probably a good business model. Number two, is it something I could enjoy or learn to enjoy? Number three, is it something I can do well? Number four, have I got some existing experience in it? Yeah. Number five, is it the right time? Because you can have the right opportunity at the wrong time. Like if you're starting up three ventures just because this opportunity looks good, it's probably the wrong time. So I get lots of ideas, and that can be a problem sometimes because it can distract you from what you already decided to do. So I just have a folder called ideas, and anytime I have an idea, I just put the idea in my ideas folder and I check the ideas folder every one to three months. And that thing that's still there, that's like to do this thing, do this thing. That's probably the thing you should do. You should probably let ideas incubate for a bit.

I took your advice on that. I also now have an ideas folder.

Ah.

Because it's relentless.

Yeah. Yeah. And isn't it funny how you look back and you think, actually, thank. I didn't do that because that was a really idea. At the time when you were buzzed on coffee and you were in Dubai and the sun was shining, everything's.

This is a great idea.

You know, the cane corner. Fine. Yeah, yeah. So, but then there's, there's one or two that will just stay there. Now they're probably the ones you need to do, but there can be a good idea at the wrong time.

Yeah, that's really challenging when everything else seems to line up. But I don't know about you, I'm, I'm not very good at doing multiple things, so I'm trying to rein that in of like, okay, well, I need to get this project to where it needs to be before I can really take that on. But then I'm also like, oh, what if you miss your opportunity?

Yeah, yeah. And having a bit of fomo, it's not a bad thing because speed is really important in business. And so you should always have that edge of what if I miss this opportunity? Because then that makes you take opportunities. Another thing you've got to ask yourself is, is this opportunity better than the one I'm already doing? Because the, like you said, the shiny lights, the Magpie syndrome, it looks shiny, but actually with a bit of research, it's nearly always better to do the thing you've started. Like imagine like the truck pull. A business is like the truck in the world's strongest man, whereby getting that truck just moving over that line by a centimeter or an inch takes the World's Strongest man and it's really freaking hard. Obviously, once that truck's moving and got momentum, it keeps moving. So if you start a new thing every six months, you're pulling the truck, getting the thing just moving and then you just drop in the rope and the truck stops and then you go and try and pull another truck or, you know, once the thing's moving, it's got momentum.

Do you think it's possible to maintain friendships with people who don't share your drive and passion for business?

Yes. You could be friends with anyone that you choose to be friends with. I'm just not going to spend much time with that person.

How have your relationships changed as your wealth has grown?

Most of my friends who I spend the most time with are also entrepreneurs and business owners. And I don't really have many any friends who aren't. And I've got my legacy friends who I love and admire and respect who aren't in my world. And that's why you don't ever hear me talking down non entrepreneurs. And a lot of people like sack your friends, sack your family. No, you've just got to think about what gives you energy and what takes it because energy can be really Hard or really easy. Like, imagine you're in a room full of moaners, complainers and drainers and you were stuck in that room for two hours. How would you feel for the rest of the day? Imagine if you're in a room full of billionaires sharing ideas on, you know, how to develop the entire world where no idea was a bad idea and they're all riffing off each other. Yeah, great idea. And we could also do this. What do you think, Elon? Yeah, great idea. And we could also do this. What do you think, Jeff? Yeah, great idea. And we could imagine how you would feel. So energy is much easier to come through you, through others than it is to create from you. So make sure you spend time with people who give you energy. Now, I've got a couple of friends who aren't entrepreneurs, but they're really funny and spending a couple of hours with them gives me great energy. It's just not a business environment and that's fine. They're those kind of friends. I've also got some entrepreneurial friends who are just fucking negative and grumpy all the time. So it depends on your mission and what you want. It depends on how long you've been friends for with someone. But I would say about friendships, you don't owe anyone anything. And loyalty is good, but there has to be value. And some people are loyal to old friends who don't offer any value to them.

Yeah, there's the phrase like, oh, don't forget where you come from.

Well, I came from Peterborough, so I want to forget that. Yeah, that's that. That saying, don't forget where you came from is unsuccessful. People still living where you came from trying to pull you down. That's what that phrase actually means. What they're also saying is stay humble. Well, humble sometimes is good, Humble sometimes is bad. If you're pitching to a sponsor that where you want a six figure deal to get money out of them to be the sponsor for you. And my podcast is being humble good? No, no, you've got to oversell it. Then over deliver it though I to sell. Over deliver doesn't work anymore because you're in a noisy marketplace. I think it's good to be humble about life. And, you know, because if you're not humble about life, life will humbleize you. But this whole thing about be humble and, you know, never forget where you came from. I would say just don't forget where you're going and be more focused on where you're going than where you came from. And A lot of people who want to hold you back to where you came from are still there.

If you was to start again and you're in your 20s like me, what.

Would you do, you smug bastard? Throw that in there, you cocky shit. You know, actually be humble.

Yeah, sorry.

So if I was in my 20s like you.

Yep.

Yeah.

Starting from scratch, what would you do to get it all back?

Okay, do I have my knowledge that I've gained in my 20 years?

Yeah.

Okay, so with the knowledge I have, what would I do differently? What would I do starting again? I. I'd probably do something similar because it's done all right for me. You know, we've done a quarter of a billion in sales just in our information businesses, so that's pretty good. Why would I do anything different? So I would definitely get into real estate and learn how to buy my own real estate as my long term asset building strategy. I would then set up an information business teaching people what I know. And if it's real estate I'm learning, it's real estate I'm going to teach. And then I would learn how to invest my own money. So I'd probably learn about bitcoin and gold and other things. And then as that grows and I can build a team around that, I'll look to raise money to buy property with other people's money. I'll look to get our students who did our courses and turn them into our trainers. I'd look to get some good quality advisors around me to help me with my assets, and then I free up my time to grow and then I would launch other businesses related to those streams. And that's exactly what I did.

I love that answer because normally when that question is asked on a podcast, the person always gives something completely different to what they've done. So I've become a software engineer, but you know nothing about it. It's kind of refreshing to get a very honest answer of like, well, I've already done it once, I could definitely fucking do it again. Why would I do anything else?

And if it took me 18 years to go from 0 to 250 million in sales just in the information business, and from zero to hundreds of real estate units without the knowledge, how much quicker could I do it with the knowledge? Why would you want to put all the knowledge into something you don't know and have to relearn it all over again?

Exactly. So what you're saying is I am younger, probably more handsome, and now I've got a lot of your knowledge. I'll become much, much richer.

Well, you're definitely younger.

I knew that was coming.

Let's ask everyone in the comments who's better looking. The thing with men is they can get better looking with age, Kane.

True. Definitely with wealth.

And I do hope you become more wealthier than me.

It'd be a great case study.

Yeah. And then hopefully you won't forget me.

Of course not.

Yeah.

I mean, when you're old, I won't wipe your ass, but I will contribute towards your home fees if you like.

Thank you.

That's right.

Well, I've already had permission from my wife that I'm allowed a young nurse because she doesn't want to wipe my ass.

I think that's a good deal.

Yeah.

Everyone's fair enough.

Yeah.

Okay, so we'll carry on quick fire for these last couple of.

Yeah.

What's the most cutthroat thing you've ever done in business?

Fired a family member.

Oh, can you tell that story?

I don't want to say who it is because it's a family member. Yeah.

Was that early on?

No, no. And it was a bit of a mix up as well as a cut. But I'm pleased that I don't make emotional decisions or decisions that are good for me but not necessarily good for the company. I'm good that I'm able to detach that. I mean, you have some things that are both like we own supercars in the company, benefits us personally, works for the company. But, you know, at times you're faced with a decision which is easier for you not to make but better for the company to make. So there was a management mix up and a job that a family member was doing wasn't getting done and it just wasn't right. And I also knew it got to the point where it wasn't right for my family member, which kind of in my head helped me with the decision. But yeah, just had to let that go.

Killer.

You didn't expect that, did you?

No, I didn't. By the way, I've saved the best questions till last. What does disruptive mean to you?

Observe the masses. Do the opposite. Be greedy when others are fearful and fearful when others are greedy. And the biggest disruption to your business is probably yourself. So the goal should be to disrupt yourself before competitors or governments disrupt you.

I can clip that. So you've got your famous saying, if you don't risk anything, you risk everything. What's the biggest risk you've ever taken and did it pay off?

The biggest risk I ever took was not starting my business. Age 15, 18, 21, 25, I started at 27, 100 apartment blocks. I deem as no risk compared to your dream or your business that you know, you want to start, you never start. So my dad raised me to be an entrepreneur from about age 6. He got me working in his pub about age 6 and I could count and add up at 8 better than any adult because my dad taught me. He would count all the coins in the slot machines and the pool table and he'd teach me how to add up, you know, the beers and the spirits and the food on the orders. I could do it all in my head. And he was an entrepreneur and he started businesses. He started some, sold some, failed some, and I was raised that way. And then I went to a good college and a good university. Well, I got a good degree. And though they were the biggest threats to my wealth, it's been proven. I got an architecture degree that I've done nothing with. And the only reason I did it was because smart, I thought, because society had indoctrinated me to think that, well, smart people go to university, you know, thick people get an apprenticeship. I'd far rather get an apprenticeship with an entrepreneur now than go to university. I mean, imagine getting an apprenticeship with, you know, an entrepreneur who's running a successful business, earning and learning at the same time. So I've taken no risk of what I have done compared to how risky the things were that I didn't do, like start my business and follow my path and purpose and dream. And I had easily four chances to do that. And now, of course, I can't afford it. Oh, it's really difficult. Oh, what do I know? But I had four clear chances. Teens, early 20s, mid-20s. I started age 27. And people always say, well, Rob, no regrets, you know, that got you to where you are right now. Yeah, but where would I be if I'd have had another five or 10 years in business? Because add five or 10 years on to the end, now we may, we may do a billion in sales because of how compounding work. So that's my. That's the real answer. There's nothing I've done that was that risky.

I respect that. This is the big one. What is the most controversial or disruptive opinion that you have that might get you cancelled?

The. The pharmaceutical industry as a whole has no incentive to heal or cure you and it will profit the most from keeping you ill for the rest of your life, but not dead. It's been nice knowing you and I'm not making a ivory tower moral judgment here because there's no doubt that there's some really breakthrough drugs that have helped a lot of people. There's no doubt. And I know people who've benefited from that, and maybe I might one day. But there is no better cure for anything than, than your own body. Your own body is better than AI and any tech and any drug that's ever been made, ever. And I think we all know it. And you know, things like good long deep sleep and movement and not putting poisons in your body, all those things will render most of the pharmaceutical industry redundant, which I think is why we don't get marketed that stuff by mainstream media. And you know, a lot of these peer reviews and these studies are just funded by these big pharmaceutical companies. So I believe that to be true and I believe that to be a reality. Any headache I get, I know I've caused it. Whether it was, I mean, I don't drink hardly at all, as you know, but I will have the odd champagne and very rarely I'll have more than one glass. And if I have more than one glass, I wake up with a little bit of a headache. I don't need drugs for that. I need to only have one glass of champagne, not two. If I get five hours sleep and I feel absolutely shit the next day, what's the point in taking pills? Just get eight or nine hours if my body is seizing up and aching, you know, like a car engine. If you don't ever start or turn over a car engine, it seizes up. So a car engine needs movement to lubricate itself. It's the same with your body, by the way. I'm not a doctor, you know, just like I, you asked me what my, what my opinion was and I understand why the pharmaceutical industry would not want to market to us to eat well, to move, to sleep well. Now, of course, if you've got, if you're at the point where you've got stage four cancer and it's die or have pharmaceutical drugs, I might make that decision. I know people who have, which I respect, but if before you get there you look at holistically what you can do in your life to avoid that, maybe right up there. Now the reason I chose that is because health is everything. I had this discussion with a close friend about Coca Cola because Coca Cola sell poison and they make billions out of it. And morally you could go, that is so wrong. But it was maybe only, I don't know, let's say it was 20 years ago we knew that sugar was poison. Like if you look back at the old Coca Cola adverts, they have adverts with them to give to your baby. And that seems so outrageous now, but we're judging 20 years ago in today's society, I mean, I'm sure people thought tobacco and smoking was healthy at one point. Probably if you look, you'll find that sometimes society doesn't know and Coca Cola have built this maybe trillion dollar company and then all this research comes out. That is poison. What are they going to do? Just shut the fucking thing down. Oh, sorry, yeah, we're wrong now. You know we're going to give up our trillions. I understand the moral paradox of that. I like to think if it was me and if it was you, I like to think what we would do is we'd create a five or a ten year plan and we'd start moving into more healthy industries. But they, they bought in, they bought innocent, which was a really healthy company. And then now they just fucking stuff it with sugar. And because like, do you blame Coke or do you blame the people? Because if we all stop drinking coke today, Coke can't sell sugar anymore. If we all stop getting, taking headache pills all the time and taking the easy win on drugs, things would change. So we have to take some of our own responsibility. I'm not just knocking these companies and things change. And I understand the moral paradox. And also you've got all these shareholders and BlackRock and all this money and Quarterly targets. Quarterly targets. Quarterly targets. Quarterly targets or you're fired. Quarterly targets or you lose your job. What are you going to do? Have all this healthy wellness stuff or sell legal drugs. I get the moral paradox, but it takes brave people to stand up to change the world. And I'd love to see someone at Coke, I'd love to see someone in pharmaceuticals, I'd love to see someone in the banks stand up and go, we need to change our model for the future because this is in the past. It's not that they were immoral when they started, it just became wrong Equally, maybe as wrong is how we've been led to believe that saving money is good for us and that the banks are here to help us with our future and our retirement and fundamentally in schools, from an early age, we are indoctrinated to get a good job. Therefore pay up to two thirds of what you earn and spend in taxes and get your mortgage and get your car loan and get your loan for your conservatory and be in debt and pay interest and pay taxes and pay it for 30 or 40 or 50 years and then when you die you pay 40% on most of it. And that is an industrial age model that has not evolved. And people are being bred to be consumed by banks and governments for tax and interest and debt. And I'm disrupting that with Rob Team and my money school. You know, my mission is to help as many people on this planet get better financial knowledge. Were you taught about how to budget properly at school?

Nope.

Were you taught about how to manage your emotions around money and spending at school?

No.

Will you talk about the difference between an asset and a liability in school?

No.

Did you know that something like Bitcoin was deflationary and something like fiat currency was inflationary?

Didn't even know what those phrases meant to me.

That's wrong. And that needs to change to the next 18 years. Boom. This episode was brought to you by Disruptive Media, helping bold entrepreneurs stand out.

Through podcasting, video and social content.

Visit disruptive media.co.uk to learn more. Foreign. This episode was brought to you by Disruptive Media, helping bold entrepreneurs stand out.

Through podcasting, video and social content.

Visit disruptive media.co.uk to learn more. Sa.