Who Really Pays Tax & Ways to Reduce Your Tax Bill

Rob, I know you like to rant about everything that's wrong with the government and tax, but can you give us some actionable step by step instructions on how we can get our tax bill down? Work hard, get a job, pay your fair share.

Fair share? What country is that? Dubai. It's definitely not the uk. Yeah. Work hard, get fucked.

Yep.

Where are we going with this, Kane?

Why do billionaires not pay tax?

They do. This is the propaganda nonsense that comes from the very far left, or maybe Labor. Billionaires do pay tax. They pay the most amount of tax. The top 1% of earners pay 40% of the tax. The top 10% of earners pay 70% of the tax in the UK. So there aren't many billionaires and there are tens of millions of working class people. So if you want to get the vote of the working class people, what propaganda story do you create that the billionaires don't pay any tax? Now, this is complicated and nuanced, but I can cover it. But there are many different forms of tax. So billionaires might circumnavigate some corporation tax. I don't know if you saw, Roman Abramovich had a little scheme, looked like he saved a billion in tax by renting his super yachts. But that was of course on BBC. But how many billions in economy did he create? How many billions in taxes did he generate through his company profits, his income taxes and the staff taxes and national insurances. Every employer pays 15% employer's national insurance. So let's say you're a staff member of mine. You were. You're not anymore. You fired me, but then became my business partner straight away, so that was fine. But I have to pay 15% tax on your wages. So everyone I employ, I'm paying 15% of your wages in, in what they call national insurance, which is a tax. So billionaires do pay tax, they pay a lot of tax. It's just there's some that they avoid. And if you're a billionaire, would you want to avoid some taxes too? Right, there you go then.

What are the main strategies that these billionaires use to not pay tax?

Well, the main one that people I think get pissed off with is corporation tax. So corporation taxes, your company is taxed in the UK it's 25%, but in Dubai it's 9%. And it's only just come into play. So imagine you're a company. The higher you get taxed, the less you can grow as a company. Because what you make a lot of it, you're Paying in tax. So whilst I understand some people are upset that billionaires can put their company offshore in Ireland is one place or other non tax paying jurisdictions. Essentially that company is paying less corporation tax, but that means that that company can grow because it's paying less in tax, because taxes stunt your growth. Right now I pay in total about 45% income tax. So nearly half of everything I would want to draw I have to pay. So it makes it twice as hard for me to grow my own wealth if I'm giving half of it away. Now I want to go from billionaires to millionaires for a bit to then bring this back. So not only are billionaires ostracized and criticized in the UK especially, but millionaires are too. But most people don't realize that most millionaires are not really rich. So the top three cars that millionaires drive are Toyota, Honda, Ford. And many millionaires in the UK became a millionaire over 30 years largely due to house price rises. So it's not like they're sitting on millions of pounds of cash. They're a net worth millionaire because they've got assets after liabilities of more than a million and they're not actually that rich. I mean you need at least 10 million. You need to be a DECA millionaire really to be rich. Now I believe with inflation, so many millionaires who are low millionaires, who who are essentially just upper working class are getting attacked. 20% VAT, 25% corporation tax, 39 to 45% income tax, 60% income tax, 100 to 125 if you're an employer, 15% national insurance, pension contributions, business rates. So they're getting raided, raped and pillaged, and maybe that class are paying tax 2/3 or even 70% of everything that they earn and spend. But the billionaires who've got really good accountants, really good lawyers, really good tax specialists have the ability to move their companies globally. They are avoiding a lot of corp tax and many of them are paying 4% corp tax instead of 25% corp tax. I actually don't think that's fair, but I don't blame the billionaire. I'm very excited to announce a special long term partnership with Direct Bullion. People must ask me hundreds if not thousands of times where I buy my gold and silver, how to buy gold and silver. Can you buy gold and silver in your pension?

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Yeah, of course.

It's just a simple return on investment. You're not breaking any laws. So why would. So I don't blame the billionaire, I blame the uk. If the UK said all of you who are in Ireland and all of you who are in Dubai, we'd like to give you some tax breaks to move back to the UK and we'd like to do a deal, you're paying 4, we want you to pay 25, what deal can we do to get you back? Maybe nine. Like if all billionaires in the UK and big corporations paid 9%, not 4%, that's going to put hundreds of billions, maybe even trillions into the economy straight away. Now, a lot of these companies didn't want to move away from the UK, they were forced to move away from the UK because corporation tax went up from 19 to 25% straight away. Now 6% out of 19 is 1/3 because you get the propaganda, oh, it's only gone up 6% from 19 to 25. No, it hasn't, it's gone up a third because 6 out of 19 is almost a third. So we've got to be smart. We've got all these few million, I think there's 3 million millionaires in the UK, there's millions of small businesses now. Small businesses make up 55% of the total economy, I think. And yet they're the ones being most attacked because they're easier to attack. Because if you're a low level millionaire, you can't afford to spend 2 million to move your company to Ireland or Dubai and get the tax breaks. So you're kind of stuck. So they go for the easy picking, low hanging fruit. But if they were smart, imagine if they dropped corp tax for all these 3 million millionaires or these small business owners from 25 to 15, but they got 9% instead of 4% and brought all these big billionaires and all these corporations back into the uk. Do the maths on it. It would generate hundreds of billions, if not trillions to the UK economy.

And I think we were built on small business because with Dubai, the corp tax is only after something like 3 million profit. And now they're giving these visas I know you was talking about for like creators and startups, the golden visa.

Yeah, yeah. So if you're a creator, an entrepreneur and you're pissed off with the uk, come to Dubai, we'll help you set up your studio, we'll help you set up your business, we'll help you hire people, we'll give you a golden visa, that is if you're valuable and you can produce, we will bring you to Dubai. What are UK doing? The opposite. They're sending all the valuable producers, they're alienating and exiling them and sending them away. And yet they're letting all the people on the boats over into the UK who aren't able to work or who aren't working. It beggars belief.

If you could only reduce one tax, what would it be and why?

I mean, I think probably the biggest scam tax is income tax because essentially what's yours isn't yours. And surely liberty and sovereignty and freedom is what's ours is ours. But income tax, that feels like the most unfair. But to drive the economy up, we need to increase employment, we need to create, increase production and output per Head. Do you know America are 40 more percent more productive per head than the UK? And I'll come back to that in a moment. Remind me about that.

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So you've got gun to my head. I'd probably have to say corporation tax, I mean vat, you have to charge it but then you can claim it back. But it is a sales tax and it's unfair on the buyer. But if we reduce corporation tax we would increase employment straight away because what the UK government did was they increased national insurance tax, which is a penalty to the employer for employing. So therefore the employers are going to go, well, I'm going to employ this. So it's a complete reverse reward, it's a reverse incentive, it's a disincentive. So what you want is you want to incentivize growth. What's going to create growth the most Jobs. What's going to create jobs the most employers. What's employers biggest tax? Corporation tax. So I'd probably reduce corporation tax. Now you said and this is a really big thing, which again is propaganda and it all just gets proliferated and missed. And they give you this headline that they want and they miss all the facts. So you said a corporation tax in Dubai, it kicks in after quite a high amount, is that right?

Yeah. You reckon about I'll get the exact figure?

Yeah. So while you're getting the figure in the us you start paying a higher tax bracket and I think it's 37%. I think if you're single it's about $650,000 and I think if you're married, it's about $700,000. In the UK you pay the highest bracket of income tax after £50,000, which is $62,000. So it's not just the amount of tax, it's when you pay it. And I'm actually in favor in the UK of a flat tax system and you have all of these ratchet, ever increasing bands of tax, but the problem is inflation reduces the value of your money, but they don't increase the bands. So what happens is earners get pulled into the or drawn up into the higher brackets. So if the higher rate of tax in the UK and income was anything over 3 million, fine. Flat rate up to a million, Ratchet it up over a million, ratchet it up over 2 million, fine. Incentivize us to get to a million. Here's another ridiculous penal punitive disincentivized tax. In the UK when you earn between 100 and 125 grand, all your reliefs go and essentially you're paying 60% tax at 100 to 125. So everyone gets to 99 grand and they don't want to earn any more. So it disincentivises growth. What? Beggar's belief. I've said that twice. Bonkers. Do you use GROK now or do you use Chat GPT?

I use chatgpt and Perplexity, depending.

I think Grok's the one.

Yeah, I'll try it.

Yeah.

Okay. All right. So it's less than I thought. So it's 375,000 AED, which is about 82,000 pounds. It goes to 9%.

Okay. But in the UK it's maximum. Okay, fine, yeah, carry on.

But there's a 15% tax when you hit 750 million. So you've got to be a massive company before you pay 15% in corp.

Would I pay 15% if I made 750 million? Having my government support and help me and encourage me to get to 750 million. Yeah, I'll take that. Yeah, yeah, I'll take that.

So coming Back to that very first point of work hard, get a job, pay your fair share, work hard, start a company, pay your fair share. I think. Think Dubai's got that.

Well, let me talk about fair share, because one of the things I'm either criticized for or put straight by my critics is, well, you know, you should be grateful and happy that you earn enough money to pay the tax. I am not against tax. Of course, the nhs, which, if it's working, is a great service, of course the police, of course the roads, the transport, the infrastructure, the military, the defense. Of course I want to help, you know, our wounded veterans and our disabled people. Of course I want to do that. And I do. I pay 20% VAT, 25% corporation tax, up to 45% income tax, 15% national insurance. I contribute 3% of all wages for my staff's pension. I have to pay business rates. So I pay loads of tax. I do. But why? Why would I want to pay all that much? And either I want our defense and our security and our police and our NHS and our roads and our hospitals to be the best in the world and to be able to let my kids run loose and play without fear of them and to go into London without fear of being robbed or mugged. If I get all of that, I'll pay a higher tax. If I get none of that, what am I paying for? What am I paying? And so that's why we need to stop exiling and ostracizing and making an enemy of the super rich. We need to stop exiling and making an enemy of the working class rich. And why we need to encourage people to start a business and people to get off the streets and work. So, for example, unemployment in the UK is about. It's over 4%. Welfare, depending on your sources, is anywhere between 171 billion up to 350 billion, depending on where you define welfare goes. And I walk the streets of Peterborough from time to time with a camera and a microphone interviewing people. And I often give cash away. When I give cash away, I get lots of homeless people kind of swarming me, wanting the cash, and I make them answer a few questions first. And the first thing I ask them is, why don't you get a job? And they all say the same thing. And I've had this backed up by local community support officers. They all say, there is no point getting a job because I make more money on benefits. I get a house given to me, I get more on benefits. And when I beg, I can earn 150 or 200 a day, 150 to 200 a day tax free because they ain't taking that down the bank every day and paying their tax. So talk about the billionaires being tax avoiders. What about the beggars, the professional beggars? And look, you know, maybe some of them aren't telling me the full story. So I grab the community support officers when I go and do my interviews and say, is this true? And they're like, absolutely. They've all got their houses paid for. They're not living on the streets. They've got now, maybe some people are, but a lot of them aren't. They're getting a house, an accommodation paid and then they're getting their benefits paid. And if they work, they lose their benefits and they beg professionally and they don't pay any tax. Where's the propaganda media machine marketing about that?

It's all done all about voters, right?

This recent budget should warn you that your pension is not safe and secure and they're coming for your inheritance. Do you even know how much is in your pension or where your pension is invested? Add to this the recent inheritance tax grab on your pensions and the risk of a market crash.

You probably didn't know this and I.

Didn'T until recently, but physical gold can be added to your pension pot. Gold is inheritance tax free and has grown 700% in the last 20 years. You probably know from my content I'm investing heavily in silver and gold and that's why I've partnered with direct bullion. Myself and Nigel Farage are brand ambassadors and direct bullion can help you with gold to protect and grow your pension. I buy my gold and silver from direct bullion and I don't earn any.

Money on any purchases of gold or.

Silver silver if you buy direct from direct bullion. So if you go to robmore.directbullion.com you can get a great price on your silver and gold and you can get the pension gold investing guide completely for free. As you know, I don't do many strategic partnerships and when I do, I do them with people who are credible, who've been doing it a long time, who invested things that I invest into and gold and silver's going wild. I'm investing heavily in gold and silver.

I and I recommend you check out.

Robmore.Directbullion.Com.

Let me challenge your answer on changing one tax. The only thing, if you change in massively reduced income tax, all the big companies would still move over anyway because the CEO, the founder, the Owner wants to live a nice lifestyle because you can work your corp tax down, right? Whereas there's not really anything you can do about your personal tax. So if the profits only want to pay yourself, you have to pay your 45 or whatever it goes up to in your country.

You're going to place your company where you can create the most revenue for your business. So I could reduce income tax to zero, but if corporation tax is really high and the economy is screwed and we're exiling all the wealth, why would anyone want to run a business here? So I get selfishly and personally, why income tax? Like I said, it feels like the biggest theft because that's your money. Your company money is the company money. But here's another thing that they could and should do. Why don't they incentivise us to invest in assets that help grow the economy with our company money?

Like what?

Well, like incentivize us to redevelop city centers. So right now we have a major chronic housing shortage in the uk. They've just announced the onslaught. The Office for National Statistics have announced that we're going to be about another 5 million in population by I think 2030. And the net migration, that will be the net. So there'll be 10 million in, 5 million out. We've got a chronic housing shortage already. But yet you walk down most city centre high streets and there's empty buildings and there's rundown areas and people always say, oh well, yeah, but there's not enough green belt lander. We need to preserve our heritage and our forests and we can, we can preserve all that and redevelop the city centers that are fucked. So imagine if there was a tax break where I could take company money and I could invest it into commercial property and develop it into the town centre and I could make money and develop our. Now we do that, we did 100 apartment development block in the city center, as you know. But then the cities would win, the councils would win and the individuals would win. Is that not just common sense? Yeah.

And you build up and you get to keep all the greenery.

Well, we have got a story on building up because we're doing a 15 story development project right now. We're putting it together. I can't say, can't say too much yet. But yeah, like get all these empty units full. If you've got empty units, that means you've got a missed opportunity to generate revenue in your city because you haven't got a shop and you're not paying Rent. And you haven't got people that can buy to create the economy. And the thing is, if you penalize us and give us no money, we have to hoard. And if you give us some money and some incentive to spend, we'll spend. So what the government in the UK are doing is trying to take money off of us, which gives us less, which means we hoard, which means there is no money to put back into the economy. So look, I get you from a personal perspective, like I said, I think income tax feels like the biggest scam. But to grow the economy we need to create employment, commerce, entrepreneurship, hiring. And that's done through companies that hire people, employ people.

That makes a lot of sense. It's like toilet roll and lockdown, wasn't it? Everybody just hoarding it and buying it because it thought was scarce and people having to scrap an Audi.

Is everyone surviving now able to wipe their bottoms now?

Yeah, absolutely, yeah. So why do you think 10,000 millionaires left the UK last year?

Okay, so this gets worse by the way, because since lockdown it's apparently around 20,000 and it's been doubling in number since lockdown 2020. And UBS predicted that the amount of millionaires that will leave the UK by 2028 is half a million. There's only 3 million millionaires in the UK. Remember I said most of those are working class millionaires driving Toyotas and just struggling to put their kids through private school. Probably many of them aren't. So if we exile 1/6 of all of our millionaires, that's going to kill the economy because remember, 40% of all tax revenue is generated by the top 1% earners. So why are all these millionaires leaving? Because the schools, the hospitals, the police, the nhs, the transport, the infrastructure, infrastructure is all broken. Millionaires aren't, don't feel safe, they're getting robbed for their, you know, the wealth that they've built. But mostly because 20% VAT, 25% corporation, up to 45% income, 15% national insurance, 3% contribution to pensions. I don't know what business rates as a percent are, but you can start a business, a small business and pay 65 grand a year in business rates. Talk about disincentive. Hey, you want to start a business, you want to contribute to the economy, you want to employ people, you want to do good in your city or society, bang. There's 65 grand a year that you've got to pay when you start. Why don't they give us a year, no corp tax? Why don't they? Then increase it to 5% year two, 10% year three. Because then all of a sudden more of us are going to start our business, but in sense, straight away, it's going to be 25% corp and you're going to pay 65 grand a year in business rate straight away. So I can't remember what your question was.

Why do you think all the millionaires are leaving?

The more you earn, the more you get penalized. There are other countries that offer much better tax breaks and better weather and better health care and better security and safety, and they've got a better police and legal system and rewards and incentives and feeling like they want you there. The UK feels like it hates it, has a disdain for success, like culturally, not just in our blood, but in our bone marrow. Culturally, it feels like if you're successful, you are ostracized, criticized, penalized, sodomized. I think that's buggery, isn't it? You are bummed by labor, the more money you make. So why the fuck wouldn't you go to Dubai? And it's the attitude as well. You go to Dubai. Nice to meet you. Oh, let me connect you with this entrepreneur. Let me connect you with that promoter in the uk, it's, oh, you want help? No, no, no. That's because when it's harder, you have to hoard because you're in survival mode. It's hard enough for me to make any money, so I'm not giving you jack shit. That's the attitude in the uk, Whereas in Dubai we're all making money, so we'll all share. And I know because I, you know. Well, we were there recently. You went back twice. You. Twice in three weeks you went back. Yeah, busy now. Look, I love my country. I'm staying here for the fight. A lot of people say to me, well, why don't you just leave? My critics are like, well, why don't you just leave, Rob? I think that, you know, my haters want me to leave. But, you know, what about my kids in private schools? What about mom and dad that are still alive? You know, what about actually trying to help my country? You know, in a way it's like quitting, leaving. But if taxes get any higher, I'll have to go.

I've heard you talk about this a little bit about kids and parents, and there's a lot of people that have those emotional ties. Logically it makes sense for a business owner to leave, but we're not always logical. And there's other things that Play into it. So those people that do have to stay and for your listeners, what can they do tactically to minimize the effects they feel from this massive tax burden?

Okay, so step one is you have to start a company now, whether it's a side hustle for an E Com business where you're just selling your own secondhand goods first, that's a start. Now, you shouldn't have to pay tax on secondhand goods because you've already paid tax to buy them new. Although I know at one point the UK government were trying to tax secondhand goods. I mean, they're just desperate. They are just desperate. They're trying to tax everything. Do you know Labour are discussing, even if you don't use the BBC, but you subscribe to Netflix and Amazon prime, they'll force you to have a BBC TV license. They're just fucking desperate. Anyway, back to your question. So when you are employed, and by the way, I employ 100 people. Well, actually if you include all of our outsources, it might be more like 200. And I'm really grateful for them. And being an entrepreneur isn't for everyone because the risks are high. And right now with the Labour government, it is harder. It can still be done, but it is harder. That is a reality. So it's not for everyone.

So.

So you know, if you want to remain employed because you, you're passionate about your work or you don't want to take the risk, that's fine. You just have to accept that you get paid last. So when you're employed, here's what happens. Let's say you work for me. I know you fired me, but let's say you come back and work for me. What happens is you work for a month and then your salary immediately I pay the government share to them and then you get what's left. So government gets paid first, you get paid last. Yeah. Oh, and I have to pay on you. Not only do I have to pay your wages, but I also have to pay national insurance on you. And then you have to pay national insurance on you. And then student loans, and then your student loans. So you get what's left. I don't know if anyone remembers these game shows like Bullseye, where you lost and here's what you could have won, a yacht. And when you look at your tax that you pay on your pay slip at the top, it's like, here's what you could have earned, here's what you've got left. So that's. There is no other way. When you're employed. But when you're an employer, you charge VAT and receive it in and you pay three months in arrears and you pay your corp tax in arrears and you only pay income when you draw it, not immediately at source. So there's three different ways there where you can essentially pay tax last, pay yourself first. So that's step one. Now a lot of people like setting up a company is risky or it's scary, or it's expensive. It's not. You can register a company name on company's house, it costs you a few pounds, you can get a domain that costs you a few pounds. You can set up a bank account, get a merchant provider, you could do that in tens, not hundreds of pounds or dollars. And you could just have an online business even if you don't really know what you're selling yet, even if you're just selling miscellaneous. Okay, so that's step one. Step two then is you work out what you can run through the company as a legitimate expense that you otherwise would have had to draw on income and pay the income tax on. So laptops, microphones, work trips, food and subsistence and travel to work trips, hardware, software, subscriptions, we work clothing. You know, most things can become a business expense. Not everything is. But if it's got use and function for the business, it can be a business expense. And so depending on your lifestyle and how you spend your money, you might now be able to halve what you pay for personally pay it through the business. So essentially only half will you have to draw on income. So you, you run more expenses through the company than you do paying it personally, which saves you on the income tax. Also like you said, you can work your corporation tax down by anything that is a business expense. Essentially you pay in the business and therefore it increases your cost, reduces your profit and reduces your net profit margin. Of course you don't want to spend for the sake of it, you don't want to overspend for the sake of it. So that's the, the second thing you do. Then when you're a business owner and this sole trader limited company llp, you get certain reliefs. So up to a certain amount is tax free. And then if your husband or wife also works in the business, up to a certain amount to them is tax free. So it's a ratcheted up system. So if you claim all the relief on yourself and all the relief on your husband or wife or family member, as long as they can legitimately work in the business, you, you know, you've got some tax breaks there. You can contribute to your pension each year in your company and that essentially works your corporation tax down. And then there is SEIs, EIs, Badr Capital Allowances, R and D tax relief and credits. We found a way of running cars through our LLP structures. One car per partner. So I think we've got at least four cars running through the LLP which means they cost us half because we're not having to draw income, pay all the income tax and then buy the car and then the maintenance, the ongoing running costs, the servicing, everything. You need to speak to a good accountant about that. There's certain businesses it's easier for or certain businesses you can run more through. This is why it's really important to get a good accountant, etc, etc when you charge VAT you have to charge it to the customer but then anything you buy you can claim the VAT back. So you can work your VAT down that way. Now when you've got very left governments like we have right now, essentially they penalize wealth. But when you have more right leaning governments which we used to have, conservatives used to be right leaning and by the way people, when, when people hear the word right they hear far right, they hear extreme, they hear racist. This is nonsense. You know, right leaning generally means relatively low government intervention, relatively low tax, among other things. So if reform get in and if we, if labour are out, I can't see how they're going to last and we get a more right leaning government in, what will happen is they'll start tax breaking and incentivizing entrepreneurs again. It goes round in cycles. They that's another reason why I'm not leaving yet. I mean I'm not for family reasons and other reasons. But if reform get in, I know Nigel very well, I know he's pro business, he's owned his own business, he believes in gold, he believes in bitcoin, he believes in growing the economy, he believes with immigration you've got to provide value and if you here illegally you need to go. So then we're not reducing our output and therefore reducing our basically per head. We're getting poorer and poorer and poorer and poor and poorer. So you know, stick it out and there will be more tax breaks that open up because there have been tax breaks that have shut down. Like as a property investor you used to be able to offset mortgage interest and get, and use it as a tax break and they shut that which is ridiculous. We used, we used to own a load of gold and then Gordon Brown Sold it all. And then the golden price soared. Basically UK got shorted. So, you know, we're suffering for these things now. But when we have entrepreneurs and more right leaning governments back in, the economy will grow again.

So it's not the end of the.

World, it's a financial apocalypse. But it's temporary and all we have to do is get rid of the people who are spreading the virus.

It's never been more important to get rich yourself.

Well, this is the thing. There's two types of economy. There's the economy and then there's your economy. Now, the reason I spend a lot of time either criticizing or suggesting improvements for the economy, this content I've posted today on the eight things I think that that will grow the economy is because I've sorted out my economy. If I was broke, I wouldn't be ranting and offering advice and support and criticism to our governments about the economy. Because you need to sort out your economy first. And they're the two types of there's, there's GDP nationally and then there's your gdp. Are you getting richer or poorer per your head. And then is the government getting richer or poorer per, you know, the, the national head, the gdp? Are you flowing more money through your own gdp? Are you increasing your economy? So yeah, when you're broke, you need to focus on your economy first. And that is either when you're employed, earn so much that the tax is painful, but you know, I wouldn't say palatable. I would say you could suck it up. Like footballers. Like footballers are often criticized. Well, they're not worth 350 grand a week. Well, footballers are all taxed at source and someone who's on 300 grand a week might pay 150 grand a week in tax. So they're doing a lot for our economy. A lot. But when you pay 300 grand a week, you don't like paying 140, 130, 150 grand a week in tax. But you can stomach it.

Yeah.

So either earn that much or start your own business and earn a fair amount. But get your tax bill down or bend over, pull your pants down, get out the lube.

We'll leave it on that, shall we?

And if you don't risk anything, you risk everything.

This episode was brought to you by Disruptive Media, helping bold entrepreneurs stand out through podcasting, video and social content. Visit disruptivemedia.co.uk to learn more. This episode was brought to you by Disruptive Media, helping bold entrepreneurs stand out through podcasting, video and social content. Visit disruptivemedia.co uk to learn more.