The Arena Podcast | Episode 44: The Man Behind The Mission w/ Dr. Stephen Franson

Dr. Stephen Franson, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for being here today.

Thanks for asking me, brother. Always a privilege.

Yeah, man, I was, uh, I was looking back actually to the last time that we had a recorded conversation, and it was almost exactly 2 years ago. Wow. Um, which feels like a lifetime. It feels like a lifetime ago. Yeah, I feel like you just had your baby. Yeah, yep, exactly. Uh-huh, that's right. Uh, and now he's 2 years old and has a personality, and we're talking about number 2. And, you know, it just feels like I've experienced like the multitude of human emotions and experiences over the past 2 years. So it feels like 10. And I imagine, you know, just for me understanding the things and the challenges that you've had to overcome in the past several months. And then when you hopped on this call, you said that you're blessed and highly favored and that you've had an incredible past 90 days. So I imagine just from me knowing what I know, that you also have experienced, you know, the, the dynamic of the human experience in a pretty compressed time window. And so I want to talk today about— honestly, you do, you do a lot of international speaking. You're constantly putting out content, you're constantly teaching in the chiropractic profession. And bettering the profession through all the experience that you have in growing a practice and coaching other chiropractors to grow their practices. But today, selfishly, um, I would like to get to know the man behind the mission. And so I want to go a little bit deeper today. I want to make this a very personalized, real, and, and raw conversation and understand what shaped you and what hones you and how you've built what you've built. But who you became along the way. How does that sound?

That sounds great, man. Let's have at it.

Cool. Um, so most people see the businesses and the results and the success, um, that you've built, you know, over the, the past several decades of being a chiropractor. But before any of that existed, who, who were you? Who was that person? And does that person still live inside you today?

What a great question, man. Yeah, you know what? I look back and I know that there's qualities that have always been there, right? So, I've always been really entrepreneurial. I've always been really passionate and interested in health and healing and wellness. I've always been somebody who's been very social and I love teams. I've been an athlete. I'm very, very close with my family. So, you know, my family's entrepreneurial in nature. And so, I think a lot of that was I just had this incredible environment growing up. And we weren't wealthy by any stretch, you know? So, I come from a super blue-collar part of, you know, north of Boston. I was definitely more Good Will Hunting than Nantucket, you know? But I had a great work ethic. Ethic instilled in me just by, you know, just fantastic, just world-class parents. And, you know, all of those things I think were the foundation. I was supported and encouraged through my education. And, you know, it's, I think all of those things just had me starting on third, you know, not because we were wealthy, but because I just had people, my parents were really intentional. Uh, and you know, I, I look back now that I'm raising my own family, I'm like, oh my gosh, it was like, that was, that was exactly what was most important. Just create the little, you know, the humans, you know, raise the adults you want to hang around with. You hear me say that all the time. It's just like you, you just create that ecosystem where those, those humans are the fruit of that tree. Uh, and they're going to figure everything else out, right? So everything else on the other side of that is just tactics.

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Uh, I think, um, you know, recognizing the importance of creating a team, uh, and recognizing that, you know, you can have a certain level of success if you go on your own and work hard. I think work ethic kicks talent's ass every day, right? So just, I always say that I'm not the I might not be the smartest guy in the room or the fastest or the biggest or the strongest or whatever it's, but I'm always the best prepared or the most prepared. Right. So I think that preparation is just a huge part of that. So that was a big step in the journey is learning the discipline of being prepared. And once I sort of felt the strain of trying to do it on my own, I just quickly recognized, I was like, well, wait a minute, why don't we learn how to build world-class teams. And so, you know, that was, that was an attribute that I think is probably my, my greatest strength today. That wasn't something that was, it was learnt, not taught, right? So I learned it through the crucible of trying to do it just on effort and achievement and passion and, and effort and horsepower. And I just recognized, it's like, wow, this is not sustainable and it's totally not scalable. And my first business was not a chiropractic office, right? So, I started a window cleaning business when I was in chiropractic school. And immediately, like, I actually have an ebook that I wrote, Everything I Needed to Know to Be a Successful Chiropractor. I learned washing windows. So, it was learning about creating systems, learning about building teams, learning about marketing and showing up when you say you're going to show up, do what you're going to say you're going to do, charge what you say you're going to do. And, charge what you say you're going to charge and be nice to people, right? So that was sort of the fundamentals of everything it took to be a successful chiropractor. So literally my first business taught me attraction, conversion, retention, team building, and collections. And that's where all that was birthed. I didn't, I wasn't super conscious of that when I was creating my practice, but I very quickly figured that out. I was like, oh yeah, this is, this is the same skill set.

Yeah, that's good. Yeah, I mean, the more that I learned now, I was a personal trainer for, gosh, a decade and a half and put myself through chiropractic school and I learned all very similar skills. You know, it's like all the, all the, the fundamental business domains are interchangeable regardless of what business you're in.

That's right.

I also, I also feel like that if I just, you know, if I lost the practice tomorrow, lost the Chiro Ads Academy tomorrow and ended up, you know, having to provide for my family, like I'd be able to start a business and get to 7 figures pretty quickly just because of all the things that we've learned, you know, that are just like fundamentals to any successful business. And yeah, for sure, that's one of them for sure.

I mean, I think I had 3 jobs before I was a chiropractor. I was a bartender, I was a personal trainer, and then a window washer, right? So, and every one of them taught me something very specific, right? So, um, being a personal trainer, you learn encouragement, you learn about recognition, uh, you learn about ability. Those elements are, you know, absolute DNA of being a successful chiropractor. And then, as I said, you know, washing windows was key to learn about systems and team building and marketing. And then bartending was about learning about high volume, right? So I was a bartender at an Irish bar and then eventually at the Hard Rock Cafe, and it just taught you how to handle high volume and the demands of 6 people deep at your bar for a few hours yelling drink orders at you and managing a waitstaff. That was just fantastic training to learn how to communicate with people and listen to people and talk to people and keep everybody happy while there was a lot going on. That was amazing. In the rearview mirror, I realized that was a great training for, you know, speed and communication.

I was an Air Force firefighter out of high school, so I had jobs before that, obviously. But that was Applebee's. I was a host at Applebee's. I worked at Academy. And being a host at Applebee's, looking back, like, that was a pretty instrumental job for me. Just first off, understanding how to communicate in high-stress environments. And also understanding how to serve people at a high level.

Yeah.

And, and then also having the fundamental understanding that like there's no job too small. And that's something I still take pride in today is like I still feel like there's no job too small and that we should aspire for excellence in, in all we do. And that was definitely one of, one of my strengths as a host, even at an Applebee's. But I would say when I was in the Air Force, looking back, first off, like, all of this is a whirlwind whenever you're in it, you know, you don't really know what you're picking up on, what you're learning, and what's becoming part of your subconscious patterning. So when I was in basic training and then at fire school and then stationed in Spokane and mildly depressed away from my family and friends and just going through the hardest time in my life, you know, I thought that I had made a mistake and I thought that Unfortunately, this was like a kind of a pivotal moment in my life that was going to lead me down the wrong path instead of the right path. And now looking back, it was the best thing that I could have ever done because it taught me how to fail. Yep. And it was engineered to actually break me down to literally nothing and strip away my ego, strip away a lot of my physical capabilities. I didn't have any control over the situation and I still had to survive. And I still had to communicate effectively. I had to be able to move. I had to be able to contribute in a team environment and do all of those things while under complete physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual distress. And, you know, looking back, it wasn't for me. I wasn't a lifer like I thought I was going to be, but it certainly developed me into the person that I am today. And, you know, I really appreciate all of the challenges and the hardships that I went through. In the Air Force. And, you know, I don't know that, that I would have had the success in my businesses and also just like the, the, the personal devotion to fundamental disciplines that I have now had I not experienced that.

Right.

And, and I, I mean, I was like on a bench, you know, in my underwear in the middle of a winter storm on the phone with my dad, like telling him that I was having suicidal ideation. Like, that's how bad it was for me. When I was there. And fortunately, I did have my father that was able to talk me through that time. You know, I was able to find— I actually found fitness at that time. That's when I really got into making myself better. And that making that small choice every single day was obviously changing my brain chemistry, but it was giving me something to strive for. And I think that's what pulled me out of that hole. And, you know, I look back and I just wonder— so one of the things, I'll just go ahead and ask you now. One of the things that, that I heard recently that was quite profound is that it's a high percentage. It was something like over 80% of successful entrepreneurs, and there was obvious parameters that they pulled for this, but successful entrepreneurs had actually come from broken homes and from really challenging childhoods. And so it was them having to overcome constant adversity and challenges as children that actually led to the resilience and the problem-solving capabilities that led them to ultimately becoming an extremely successful entrepreneur. And so my question is, how do you navigate as a father who has built this lifestyle, you know, that your children and your family get to live? How do you engineer hardship and how do you engineer that adversity in order to build those character attributes that you know they're going to need later on in life? Because regardless Regardless of where you start, you're going to face extreme challenges and it's all about how you overcome those.

So it's the most dominant conversation among my peer group, my friends who are, you know, success is relative, right? So they're, you know, they're relatively successful. You know, my kids are certainly growing up in a different environment than I grew up in. Hopefully they think we're as good of parents as I think my parents were. Right. Um, but you know, their experiences, their resources are very, very different. Um, and it is, it's a, it's the, there's a conundrum there, right? So, you know, there's a tension between, hey, do I, do I, um, really intentionally deprive them of resources so that they can feel and learn struggle that way? Um, or do I give them an opportunity to, you know, start on third, right? So, and jump off my shoulders, right? So, and their mother's shoulders, right? So it is, there's a, there's a tension there all the time. So, um, I think that, you know, our premise when it comes to parenting is raise the adults that you want to hang around with. Right. So God gives us children, you know, so everybody's like, oh, I'm raising children. It's like, no, God gave you children. Your job is to raise adults. So we say we want to raise the adults that we want to hang around with, right? So that is for us, you know, they share our core values and they buy into our vision story, right? So, you know, we've been super intentional about that. So I think what's most important is that if you raise your children to be humble, kind, compassionate, empathetic, I'll say it, God-centered, God-fearing, family-centric, selfless, if you, if you make those qualities really important and you really teach them about money, you teach them that money follows value and teach them about creating value and delivering value so they can capture value. I think that money just becomes an amplifier, right? So if you're an asshole, you give somebody money and they're an asshole, they're just a bigger asshole, right? So but if you're a great person, I think that those resources fund and fuel, you know, the things that you can do with your life. So, you know, we've really taken the approach that, um, I know our kids are spoiled, but they're not spoiled brats. And there's a difference, right? So, um, they, you know, they have very expensive taste. Uh, that's just the reality of it. I'm not going to deny that, but they work really hard for their money. Right? So it's like, we've given our kids a financial education. They have a level of financial fluency and sophistication that's far beyond, you know, and we've been really intentional about that. Like my, our children knows our financial team. They meet with our financial team regularly and they have since they were 15. Right. So my, if you ask my, my financial team, you know, my financial advisor, my wealth advisor, my CFO, my accountant, my broker, you ask them about my kids and they'll be like, Yeah, I meet with your kids quarterly, or, you know, they'll tell you stories of the books that they've read. And, you know, so we've, we've made it a, we've made it a, an objective for us that they have a level of maturity and financial fluency so that they can leverage the opportunity that they have. And they have certainly, they have an appreciation for the value of a dollar. We make them work. Our children work inside and outside of our businesses. We have matching opportunities for them. You want to buy a vehicle? Great. You're going to work all, you know, all year, all summer, what have you, and save money. Whatever you save, we'll match. And that's your budget for your car, right? That sort of reward system. I think I would rather take the— we've chosen to take the posture that I know our children will have an opportunity to have a really strong start. In their lives and in their careers. We've created clear definitions and expectations and agreements around how they are to receive monies and what they're to do with those monies, like what that funding will look like and what that will be directed towards, right? So, education, starting a business, et cetera. So, we've done the work beyond just estate planning, but creating a virtual board. I've got my own personal board of trustees that understand what our wishes are and the designs that we have for our resources and as far as our kids are concerned. So, I don't want to leave those things to chance and I don't want to keep everything secret so that all of a sudden, what are you going to do? You're either going to pop it on them and they haven't had the runway to maturity to understand how to manage those things well or are you going to educate them deliberately and intentionally and shape their view, their worldview and their view, viewpoint around money and the responsibilities that they'll have around that. So at the same time, Travis, like, you know, you and I operated from a place of lack and it's very hard to replicate hunger if you've got a full belly, right? So it's really hard to describe what hunger is.

That's my, that's my question.

Yeah. If you, if you haven't actually experienced that. So, We're very careful not to, like I said, you know, spoil them rotten so that, you know, your Christmas wish list is a wish list, not an order form. Right. So it's like you're— if you want to, you want something, you can work and earn money and save money and buy it yourself if you really want it, you know, that sort of thing. So it's a work in progress and it's a constant battle, to be honest with you. Right. So but I'm super proud of where my kids now who are adults, 22, almost 22, and, and 19, soon to be 20. Uh, and I, I watch them, I hear them, I pay attention to them. I see how they are with finances. I see where they are with their work ethic. Um, and you know, it's impressive, right? So I love the, you know, the, the passage that a fruit is a tree is known by its fruit. Gosh, I hope that's true. I hope that's true.

Listen, I have— I have a— Dr. Iblee and I, whenever we got to— fortunate enough to spend the weekend with you and your family, whenever we left, we probably spent, you know, 40% of the— our trip home talking about your children. And me really like envisioning my future and being like, those are the types of kids that I want to raise.

The highest compliment.

They were all— they were all the things that you listed off, you know, on what you had hoped to, to create or mold or shape, help shape them into. And they were all of those things. They were kind, they were empathetic, they were present. You know, that was one of the, um, one of the, the most obvious things, uh, for me was, uh, their, their availability and presence, you know, in the household, in the conversations. Like, um, they were there, you know, where their feet were, they were. And I think that that's hard to— that's hard to build now just because of the access to technology and And so you and Camila have done a great job. And that's what I, you know, it's, I, it's something that is subconscious to me. I've tried to check it and, and redirect it, but I judge people based on their children. You know, I do a lot, a lot of times, you know, like if I, if I come across a family and I'm like, their, their, their family's chaos and their kids are disrespectful. And obviously there's different personalities, um, you know, that, that are, are hard to, hard to manage sometimes, but in that scenario, I was like, that's exactly what I hope my family—

Thank you, man. I'll be sure to pass that on to Camila, their mother, my wife, because she, she did a lot of the heavy lifting.

I'm sure she did.

I get a lot of credit on the business side and she doesn't get enough of that because she's definitely been there from the beginning and throughout. And I try to give her more credit on the family side and the kids' side. But, you know, she and I made a decision. You know, you hear the expression, well, you can't you can't raise your children in a bubble, and I call bullshit on that, right? So, the reality is they will be raised in a bubble. The question is, will they be raised in the bubble that you choose for them, right? So, we have absolutely raised our kids in a bubble, okay? And, I will emphasize that, right? So, we are super intentional about that. And, environment trumps willpower. I learned from the late great Rick Sappio. So, we worked vigilantly on setting up the right environment in our home and wherever else they went. You know, you get to choose what schools they go to, which is a way of choosing their influences from the teachers to the, to the, the kids that are their friends with, you get to choose who they spend their time with. No, no matter what anybody tells you, you get to choose, you know, whether they have sleepovers and where they have sleepovers, if they go on vacations with people, when they do that, who you invite on vacations. Like, like we have been super intentional, you know, like we have, our group of like, you know, all my best friends like Alan Miner and Mark Mao and Joe and this, this group, we, the kids have grown up together. They actually, we call them the Lucky Sperm Club, right? So they call themselves the Mounersons, right? So it's like the three families' names combined. Like they've grown up together and we've chosen to make the investment of time, energy, focus, and money to force that function. Like we will vacation together. 3, 4 times a year. They're like, they fly around the country and that's an investment, right? So they show up for each other's birthdays. They go to each other's graduations and to the ballet and to the big games. And like they fly around and they spend that kind of time together. And they're their best friends, even though they've got friends at home and now they've got friends at college, they're still very close to this core group of chiropractic kids who share our core values and are and our worldview. And that is like really, really important. So, you know, if there's a parent listening right now, and I tell you, it is your appointment to create the bubble that you raise your children in, right? So that is your assignment. And you want to be intentional about it. And that's the hill I'll die on is like, I built a castle wall around that bubble. I had flaming arrows, soldiers. I dug a moat. There were gators. Around my family. And I think that that, that was the best thing we ever did. And it's not that our children are sheltered. They are the opposite. They are incredibly worldly, like their culture. They understand. They are incredibly well-traveled. They totally understand. Even though our house is inside out, they totally understand outside in. They could, they could do a dissertation on both outside in and inside out and compare and contrast.

Them.

And it's just amazing to listen. You know, we're a Bible-based Christian home, and they, they understand the other religions, the other viewpoints, right? So, you know, we don't have a sheltered environment, we have a protected environment, and there's a big, big difference.

That's good. Um, man, next question, segueing into another topic: when did you find God. Were you a Christian? Did you grow up in a Christian?

Yes, I was raised Christian. I was raised Catholic. So, I always joke that I'm a recovering Catholic, right? So, but just all due respect to my parents and my family, and that was a fantastic foundation and the bedrock of my faith, right? So, came from being raised as a Catholic. But then, I had some great influences in my life who who, because of like I was doing an internship or I was doing an associate's, I found myself geographically in a place where I ended up in a just a Bible-based, just call it a Bible-based church, I guess. And that's really where I, you know, would consider myself a believer who has a relationship with Jesus Christ. That was like really the sort of the inflection point for me and my wife as well. So that's something that we've done You know, really our walk has been really together there. And, you know, the closer we get to God, the closer we get to each other as we move towards him. So we've just, you know, run our life that way. We've, you know, we've, we base our marriage on that as, as an ordained, you know, agreement. And we've raised our children that way. So that's been an intrinsic part of our life.

When, when was that, that you guys found yourself in the church and then actually started to like build an intentional relationship?

Uh, well, probably I would go back to our internship and an associate ship. So that's 25 years ago. Uh, so, and with each move, we moved to a different church and we, I think we went progressively into a more Bible-based church. And, you know, where we are now is like, we literally were going to one Bible-based church for, uh, 20 years and then COVID happened and that church shut down. Uh, and I was so upset and so disappointed by that where, you know, we don't need to get into that conversation, but I was so disappointed by that. And I knew of another church that was open and our friends were all going to it and like, this place is awesome. And it was a really young congregation. Uh, so, um, we went there for my kids cause I didn't want to lose my kids. They were like sophomores and freshmen in high school. It was like, that's when you lose them. Right. So that was, that's the critical stage in their faith walk. So we started going to this church in Massachusetts, uh, called Netcast, uh, and just fell in love with it. And our kids loved it. All the friends were there. We were like the oldest people there, which was crazy to me. Uh, and, uh, Now, our kids go off to college and we still go there. We still drive an hour to go to church because it's an awesome community. And it's actually near our old practice. We sold our practice to one of our associates, but we get to see all of our patients in this big vibrant church. And it's so cool to be there. It's like, "Hey, Doc, what's going on?" They're watching me on social media too. So, they're abreast of what's going on. But, there's like 5 of my chiropractic buddies in that church and it's really just an awesome community. And it's a you know, great touchstone for our family.

That's cool. Yeah, I lost that path probably around like 14, 15, and I'm just now making my way back.

Yeah, really?

Candidly. Yeah, I'm just, I'm just now, I, and honestly for a long time I wasn't even feeling called to it because I just felt like, I felt like I was experiencing God on a daily basis. And so I didn't feel like I needed to pursue an intentional relationship further than that, that was based on doctrine or you know, anything else, or what someone else thought that my relationship with God and Jesus Christ should be like. You know, I always strived to be Christ-like, and I didn't classify myself as a Christian, but definitely in the past probably 5 years, I've just like slowly started to be pulled back into that community and definitely into reading the Bible. And then I, it was, I mean, people say this and, you know, some people will have a contradicting opinion about, you know, they're having their first child and it being kind of a revolutionary moment for them. But it was certainly that for me, 100%, where whenever I saw this creation and I saw him, honestly, it was like seeing what my, my wife did, you know, like watching those two cells turn into 17 trillion and her actually growing, supplying, building and nurturing this and then having the power as a human being to actually provide the exit for this incredible human being and then watching him develop and mirror us. And I'm like, that is God. And I definitely feel more called now.

100%. I mean, if I had to put my finger on the inflection moment for me was when I first met my son, Sam, when he was born. So, I used to think that Um, I used to think that I had unconditional love for Camilla, right? And I thought I understood what that meant. And then you start having kids, right? So then you get a glimpse at what unconditional love from the Heavenly Father is like. Like I was looking at my kids and being like, oh, wait a minute. This is, this is unconditional love. It's like, you know, when you say there's nothing you could do. To make me love you more or anything you could do to make me love you less. That's unconditional love, right? And we know, we only know that I think through our children. Turns out my love for Camilla was wildly conditional. So, and I'm like, I'm like, hold on a second here. And that was really, that changed my relationship with the Lord. Like, like, wow, you know, that's how you look at me? Like just right there was, was a, was an upgrade. For my faith, for sure. And it also changed my relationship with my dad where I'm just like, yo, hold on, hold on. You feel this way about me and my brother Jeff and my sister Kim? It's like, you guys feel this way about me? I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm sorry. I've been such a jackass in this time, these times. I'm like, and it just completely changed, changed my relationship with my parents. Um, and just enriched it, you know, so much. So, you know, I just think that that's a God thing. It's literally the pressure. It's like turning up the pressure of becoming a father and it's that pressure that upregulates your connection. It's pretty wild. It's something you can't describe if you haven't been through it.

Yeah, it's supernatural, man. It's psychedelic, dude. There's like, there's, I tell people I've been on like a 2-year psychedelic trip. You know, it's like my mind is just constantly expanded and I have new new sections of my brain and myself and my relationship with everything that, like, I'm constantly being exposed to. And it's like, it feels novel. It feels like I'm, I'm like a phoenix rising from the ashes, like reliving a new life. And it's, it's been really cool to actually— in 6 months, I went through a crazy experience 6 months leading up to it where I had gone through this crazy, almost like reflection of my entire life and like processing all of my old trauma and experiences that I had had that I'd thought negatively on for so many years. And like almost went through this entire phase of like processing and schluffing all of the old stuff that I subconsciously knew was going to be transmitted and transferred to him. Yeah. If I didn't deal with it myself. And it was kind of a crazy experience that I had. And on the other side, I finally, in hindsight, I knew what was happening, but it was, yeah, it was certainly an inflection for me and it's changed me radically. It's an identity of the non-parents.

It's a full-on identity shift for you and for your wife. I mean, it's like, you know, to watch a woman become a mother, that's a different gear. And for a man to become a father, it's just, you find a new gear. It's a new identity. And then I can remember like, when we were pregnant with Emma, our second child, I was just like, oh my gosh, I was honestly, I was terrified. And I used to say to Camille, I'm like, there's no way I'm going to be able to love this second child as much as I love Sam. I was just like, I just don't know. I'm like, I'm going to feel really bad about that, but I know myself. And it's like, I already have my favorite. And as soon as you have your second one, you're like, you have just a new gear. And so it's like, oh my gosh, right? There's another chamber that opens up in your heart, you know? So it's like, It's, it's incredible. And I say to, you know, I've got friends with 5, 6, 7 kids and I'm like, bro, is it the same? Like, yes, every kid.

I'm like, really?

You know, my dad was one of 9. So I'm just like, it's hard to think that you like have that much room in your heart, but you do. It's incredible. Yeah.

Yeah. That's good. That's great. We're talking about number 2 right now and I'm going through the same questions, asking the same questions. I'm also asking the question of capacity.

I'm like, no, you don't have the capacity and no, you're not ready and blah, blah, blah.

We have the love. We just don't have the capacity.

Cause there's nothing like that, that, that new entity in the house, which is your kids' relationship. You know, when you see the siblings, like my two, I mean, I, our children are remarkable. Remarkable does not imply perfect. So I don't want to hear anybody's like, like my kids are far from perfect. Right. So, you know, the, but they have this perfect relationship. I mean, it's, it's literally unthinkable to me. Like my siblings and I, we fought, we fought like cats and dogs and we're best of friends now. Super close. We have a business together. We're like super close. We spend so much time together, but we fought like cats and dogs. We didn't really get like friend, friend close until we were in college. Probably we spent a lot of time together, but it was, it was really charged. Right. So my kids, to be honest with you, They like, I don't think I've ever once had to be like, will you two knock it off? Like, we're like, they just are peas in a pod. And I know it's the birth order because Emma is just like his mother. He's like Camilla, really empathetic. And like, he's an old soul. He's what we call him Sunnyside Sam. It's just, he's like, he's a, just a peacemaker and he's just so kind. Right. So like, he's a coffee bean, you know, that expression, like, like when you raise kids, are they going to be potatoes? Are they going to be eggs? Are they going to be coffee beans? Right. So potatoes get soft when the water gets hot. Right. So eggs get hard and coffee beans just change the environment, make everything better. Right. So Sam's a coffee bean. Right. So it's just amazing. And then Emma comes along and she's like, she ain't large, but she's in charge. She's all me. She's like driver type A. Right. So, but incredibly, like disarmingly sweet and kind because I always assume she's going to be just like me. But The birth order, man, was important there because she just adores Sam. So if he doesn't agree with anything that she says or does, it's the end of the world. So that birth order really served me. Thank you, Lord. Like, like the two of them are freaking peas in a pod. And it's amazing to watch that. So you don't want to miss out on that, man. So have some more kids.

I'm going to. Yeah, we keep having that conversation. My buddy texted me the other day. I told him that we were still in contemplation. He's like, look, I've never met anyone at the end of their life that said they wish they had less children.

100%.

I was like, man. That's all I needed to hear.

Yes.

You know, should have had fewer kids.

No, no, just get in there.

Exactly. Yeah, cool. Well, um, I want to go back to— I want to go back to you, uh, because I, I just— I study people. I know you do too. I've heard you say it several times. I've, I've been a people studier since I can remember, um, and honestly, it's because I, you know, I, I grew up in a different environment than you, so it's crazy to, to hear, uh, the two radically different environments, but very similar mindsets and thought processes around, around a lot of things and similar worldviews. But, you know, I study you, to be honest, just, just because. Yeah, absolutely. And I think we need that. You know, I don't think we need necessarily idols or, you know, to be idolizing humans, but certainly gives us something to strive for. And it shows us that someone has paved the path and they have accomplished that 4-minute mile so that I know that I can accomplish it as well. And so it just gives me a little bit of a north star. And so—

I appreciate that. Thanks for saying that.

So absolutely, man. I, you know, and I don't know how you truly feel about that or, you know, if that's something that you have strived for over the years was to be someone that young men and young chiropractors can look up to. But I promise you, you have become that.

Thank you, man.

And yeah, it's—

I like to think of it as like a big brother energy, like so. I consider myself still too young to be like, you know, like a father figure. Like, I have so many— I have the privilege of mentoring so many young people and so many young men. And I'm just like, I had 40 associate doctors, for example, and my energy to them is I wanted to be their coach. I wanted to be their mentor. But the relationship that we had is I was not their friend. I wasn't their buddy, their pal. They didn't want me to be that. They have lots of buddies and pals. Right. So, but I would hope that if you talk to people that are close to me, A lot of them would say that I have a big brother energy to them in the best possible way. Like, I love them and I just want to look out for them. And I, I want to help you see around corners and I want you to succeed. I want you to, I want you to do great things. And, and I think that, that, that big brother, um, mentality, um, puts, you know, keeps, is a great frame for me because it's like, first I have got to operate from a place of trust, uh, and then just come alongside them as like a coach, cheerleader, hold them accountable type thing. And I think the best of the big brother.

Yeah. Yeah. The way, the way I view it is I feel like, uh, in another world at some point we were under the boat together, you know, like we were, um, we were under a log together at some point, you know, and it was like, you know, keep, keep rucking, bro. You got more in you.

Been there, done that.

Been there, done that. Yeah. Um, but I just want to know like what, what are the, what are the like silent disciplines or like the fundamental disciplines that you do on a daily basis that that nobody sees, right? Like, all the, all the good stuff happens in darkness. It happens in silence. It's the stuff that, um, that you're doing on a daily basis that, that the world doesn't get access to. Um, what, what are maybe one to a few of those things that you do consistently that have been fundamental disciplines that have compounded into something massive in your life?

Uh, so, you know, I think it's everybody's first guess is probably my answer, which is, you know, I Prayer is a big part of my life. So, I pray continuously, but every morning and every night, that's just a big part of who I am and how I frame my day, if you will. I think gratitude is an incredibly important part of that and grateful for the blessings as much as the challenges. They're all blessings, right? So, God's got me in the gym. For a reason. And, you know, my, you know, my faith walk is very, very simple. He is good and he's in charge. So his plan is better than my plan and he's got me in the gym for a reason. So as long as I'm just— that's my modus operandi is like I just stay in that state. You know, I'm a fighter. I love a good fight, right? So it's like whatever's going on, it's like, okay, that's, you know, that's my dragon to slay today or this week or whatever. And I know I'm not fighting alone. Right? So he's with me, he's for me, uh, and he equips me. And I've got one way he equips me is like he has me surrounded by these awesome people in my life and great team members. So, you know, um, I think that there's something to be said for liking to do hard things. Uh, you and I have spent enough time together, uh, inside and outside of the Hell Barn, right? So, um, I like to do hard things, right? So, and I know that that's the differentiator. It's like we all come across hard things, like every, everyone you look at, everyone you're looking up to is going through really hard things. And, you know, so it's not a question of if people have struggle or they have challenges, problems, or they're dealing with hard things or slaying dragons. Everyone is, right? It's just a question of the, you know, of their mentality around that. Uh, and for me, it's just like, yeah, this is part of it. Like, this is what it takes. Uh, and, you know, I know that everything that I want in life and business is on the other side of the hard thing. So great. I know that when I come to the hard thing, it's this where everybody is going to quit. This is where everybody's going to stop. They're not going to figure this out. They're not going to go over it or around it or through it. So I welcome that. And that's a lot of mindset. And so morning rituals to me are really, really important. So I'm up at 5 or before 5 pretty much every day, 7 days a week. And I've, I have done that for 30 years. There's probably been 10 days in my entire life in 30 years that I haven't done that. So it's like, I'm, I'm very consistent. Uh, that's, I can't sleep past 5 now, right? So it's just like, I'm, I'm awake, so I'm going to get up and start my day right. So I really spend the first 2 hours of every day just getting my state right, studying, reading, prepping. Um, and I think that that's, that's just been a real key. Like, that's been a real key. Like, I, I know that I've got 14 hours there of real you know, not, you know, I call it innercise, right? So exercise and innercise. So it's like I am building that every day, 7 days a week. There's an advantage to that. So I think that that's critically important. And then the fact that I have an incredible life partner, like they— everybody says it, it's the most important decision you ever make. If you make the right one, it's awesome. If you make the wrong one, it's awful. You know, it's the only family member you'll ever get to choose in your life. And my wife's awesome. So, um, there's a lot of, there's a lot of depth there.

That's really good. That's really good. Um, I mean, prayer and faith, do hard things, exercise, ritual. I mean, I love the ritual. I, I, I, again, subconscious judgment pattern by myself, but, um, you know, I can, I can tell a lot by a person by their sleep habits. You know, like, when are you going to bed? When are you waking up? And what are you doing when you wake up early?

Right.

That tells me a lot about a person. And then choose a great life partner. Yeah, man. Great, great key points there.

And fitness. Like, I think that fitness— you've already mentioned fitness. It's like, these are small choices you get to make every day. So I don't— I mean, I equate fitness for me is a requisite for somebody who's successful. It's like, I just can't consider you successful if you're not fit. And I don't mean ripped, jacked. I'm not talking about that. I'm like, are you capable? Or are you a liability? Right? So are you—

it's a good way of putting it.

Like, literally, it's like, what do you know? You don't have the discipline to prioritize your physical fitness because you're, you know, at the end of the day, health and energy are I mean, those are synonymous as far as I'm concerned. Your capacity, like this vessel, God gives you a purpose in your life and the vessel is what houses the spirit that serves your purpose. It's like, you got to take care of this thing. It's like, God needs warriors, right? So, and you know, you get to choose every day. It's like, did I get stronger today? Right? So, and I think that that says so much about a person's character, discipline, consistency. It is an unspoken advantage for anybody, like, be fit.

Yeah. Yeah. No, that's— and you mentioned being in peak physical condition and you kind of gave me the nod. I'm assuming you saw the social media post that I put up not too long ago. And I agree. And, you know, it's great. I think fitness is also one of those domains in life where even if you drift, you know, there's an opportunity to regain control and to find your way back and, and to, to really find that discipline again. And I think that will also teach you a lot about yourself.

That's right.

And, uh, it will shape your character because there are going to be moments where we drift. It's just natural. There's a lot of stimuli, there's a lot of, uh, options that you have in your daily life to give your attention to. And where your attention goes, your energy flows. And you can do it and a kind of a fleeting moment, you know, of distraction. And then before you know it, that compounds and you're distracted.

Yeah.

And so you have to regain traction and get back on path.

That's right.

And I think if you can do that consistently for, for months, weeks, years, decades, like you said, it teaches you a lot about consistency. And we know that, like, if consistency is, is one of the best traits that you can have—

consistency is the new intensity, right? So You, right? And you want to set yourself up for success. It's about progression, not perfection. And create the environment. Remember, environment trumps willpower. What does that mean? I've got— I'm looking at— I've got an Assault Bike right on the other side of this computer over here. So I, I don't want to hear that you don't have time to work out because 2 minutes on an Assault Bike for max calories and yeah, you're good night, right? So I've got the barn that you and I work out in. You know, it's, it's 100 paces off my back door out to the barn. It's our own CrossFit box and there's no excuse, man. It's like, got the sauna, the cold plunge, the hot tubs out there. It's like, there's no excuse. It's right here. It's like, you're either going to sit and watch TV. If you've got, oh, I only have 40 minutes, great. Get out to the barn, right? So, setting yourself up, making those investments, like, that's an investment. Like, setting that stuff up is an investment. And people are like, oh, yeah, it must be nice. It's like, well, you're blowing money on crap that's killing you.

It's a priority.

Invest in the things that set you up for success like that, for sure.

That's right. Yeah, and I, and I, I would venture to guess that that monetary investment pales in, in comparison to the return that you've gotten on that investment over the course of your life. Even if it cost you $100 grand to build out, you know, an in-home gym setup, um, that $100,000 over the next 20 years could make you, you know, 5 or 10 million just based on the productivity.

Not even— I have not a brain cell in my body that thinks anything differently than that.

Yeah, yeah, I'm the same way. I'm like, I just— I'd rather spend a fortune building out something that is based on my values and my priority list and something that I want to shape my family culture around, right? Then, you know, pay $30 a month to go to a gym where I'm surrounded by, you know, cultural aspects that I don't necessarily agree with. So, I'm a big fan.

And you raise your kids around that. I mean, my kids work out because they grew up in a house where mom and dad work out every day. Like, it's like part of what, like nutrition, chiropractic, go to church, work out. I mean, it's just like you set up that environment and they see it and that's what they, that normalizes that lifestyle for them. It's huge. It's one of the best investments you'll ever make.

Yeah, that's good. And I think that's part of engineering hardship into their life.

Yes.

Even if you are providing them a life of, you know, luxury and comfort, I don't know if you'd call it that, but ease and comfort, you know, and that's part of engineering it in is like having, having those small little compounding disciplines are challenges. They're hormetic stressors. They're going to make them better.

Ask my kids about the Easter egg hunt. So, so we, yeah, we do an Easter egg hunt and the Easter egg hunt sounds something like this. It's a scavenger hunt. And the scavenger hunt is like, it was 20 calories on the assault bike, run down the driveway, which is a quarter mile down the driveway to the box, to the mailbox, which gave them instructions that they had to run, do a cold plunge, jump in the— like it was like literally a scavenger hunt. That's my— that's my kids' scavenger hunt.

Let's go.

And we, you know, at the end of the day, they're— they like, it's Type 2 fun. It's fun when it's done. Right. But they laugh about it. They tell all their friends about it and show them the videos and everything. So We've just taken, you know, all that awful hard stuff and just, you know, you're not trying to make it easy. You make it easier by just setting that environment up.

Yeah, that's good, man. That's good. I mean, that's what I, that's what I hope to be. I hope to be the, the one where like people are like, man, Theo, your dad's, your dad's kind of intense, you know, intense in a good way. It's like I have expectations for my children. I hold them to a higher standard and they're going to work for it. And I'm going to find a way to make sure that they work for it.

You know, you want to be able to do leg day with your daughter's new boyfriend.

Yeah, absolutely. Are you kidding me? That would be, that's the dream, man.

It is.

Yeah. Make sure, make sure he knows. Cause I know how those hamstrings operate.

That's right.

Dr. Stevens. Yeah. You put me on that GHD. I know I walked, I walked funny for about 14 days after that. So yeah, I know that's what you've been training for. So I know that I have a lot of years.

Exactly.

Exactly. Cool. Well, I want to get to your perspective on finances and wealth. And I just want to understand, because I know that I've had my moment, but from a financial perspective, do you remember, was there like a moment or a milestone that you remember hitting where you finally felt like you had achieved something, like you had accomplished something?

Are you asking me what's the numbers?

What's the number?

So, Well, you know, I'm a big core values guy. So, for me, Camila and I have settled on the core values of freedom, peace of mind, abundance, contribution, right? So, we want, and it's in that order, right? So, we want freedom, right? So, we use our abundance to buy our freedom, right? So, we want peace of mind. So, we use our abundance to buy peace of mind. right? So examples of that, so it's practical, like, I always had multiple associate doctors, 2, 3, 4 associate doctors. I mean, we had a, we were seeing 350 people a day in our practice, right? So it was like we had this big robust practice and there was always plenty of people to adjust. And I could have, you know, tripled my income by just adjusting, you know, have one associate and adjust, you know, 3 times more people than I did. And then certainly there was a, there was a season for that. But I was using my abundance, my money to buy back my time, energy, and focus, right? So, it was like that to me is what money is a tool and it helps you buy things like freedom, right? So, that's the optionality. You get to choose what to do with your time, right? So, or I would use my money, my abundance to buy peace of mind. What's that look like? Well, you know, I would always have one more team member than I needed so that I didn't have this key man risk hanging over my head. If somebody gets pregnant or gets married, moves or quits, We fire somebody. Next thing you know, you've derailed your business because you're running so lean. I'll tell you what, net-net over a 3-year scan, you take a look at, I'm going to win if I have a deep bench. And you know me with KPIs, like everybody's got a scorecard with KPIs tied to revenue and profit. I know how to model the business financially, so I'm not at risk, but I like to have depth. So that's expensive, right? To have a bigger team than you absolutely need. But like I said, the net-net over 3 years, you don't lose momentum when you lose a player. So you end up winning anyway. All right. So that's for me is, you know, you reach milestones when you can make decisions that allow you to walk out and live out your core values. All right. So whatever those numbers are for you, it's always, you know, memorable when you hit the next million-dollar milestone for, you know, a business as you grow your practice and you hit $1 million or $2 million or $3 million. Businesses, you know, there's breakpoints, $1 million, $3 million, $5 million, $8 million, $15 million. Like these breakpoints, those are milestones and landmarks to hit. It's fun to hit those because it's exhilarating because you feel like you're contributing and you're being effective. And then for, for us, you know, I love the abundance piece. Camila loves the freedom and peace of mind, and abundance means freedom and peace of mind to her. So I've never regretted having a big pile of money in the bank. Right. So fortunately, we've been— we were very, very aggressive savers from the very beginning. We didn't have any money. John Demartini, Dr. John, is a big mentor of ours, a big influence from the beginning. So taught us about the importance of saving and starting that energy. We did the forced accelerated savings technique that he teaches for years. So we were just saving thousands and thousands of dollars every week, every month. Stuck in, you know, sticking that away. So, you know, we've been really smart with our money and been very intentional about being good stewards with it. I love the law of dominion that says he's going to bless you with abundance in the, in the categories of your life where you demonstrate the capacity to manage well what you've been entrusted with already. So, you know, that stewardship with money is a big deal. So, you know, that implies, you know, tithing or contributing to causes that you believe in, right? So, and being very intentional about goals around how much you want to tithe or how much you want to give. That's a great way to pull your wealth forward is to have that sort of parameter in place around that. Make all that automatic. Look at your investments for purpose. Like the purpose of investing in the S&P 500 is to mitigate inflation. The purpose of investing in real estate is to mitigate taxation. And the purpose of investing in your business is to build wealth, right? So first stop for my money is always my businesses, right? Your return on invested capital there is extraordinary. And then if I can no longer invest intelligently anymore in my business— in other words, data-driven— then I put money in my whole life insurance or the S&P or in real estate. But first stop is always my businesses.

That's good. That's good. Yeah. I mean, I, I know right now, um, obviously two, two different generations. It, it, it's, it's weird cuz there's this like dichotomy that I'm seeing and it's like, it's never been easier to make more money faster, but it also seems like it's never been harder if you don't put the right pieces in place just because everything is expensive. Uh, people are coming out with extremely large, you know, student loans, $250,000 to get through a chiropractic education is outrageous, especially if they're, you know, having to pay for room and board and food and all of those things accompanying the actual tuition. And then you get out and you don't have the credit line. You have this massive debt overhead. So it's hard to actually take out a business loan. So typically you're bootstrapping it and then you don't have the money to actually invest in the business to grow the business the way that the business needs to be grown. So then you're, you're, you're struggling through several years. You end up in this like 86% pool of people that don't make it through the first 3. And so you think it's extremely challenging to make it in this industry. And, you know, then we see on the other hand, people that are coming out that are being very smart, that are using other people's money, that are learning, obviously, as, as you educate on your attraction, conversion, team building, your financial acumen, all of those things, and you put that in place, and all of a sudden, you know, you're making more money than you ever thought was possible. God is good. The profession is great. And you're in a completely different headspace. And so where's the gap there? Because I, I, you know, being 35, um, I see like a huge percentage of my classmates that are in, in the, uh, the bulk percentage of them are in the struggle their way through practice in life. And then I have a, a very like core few that have actually broken through that atmosphere and have actually reached something that now has become extremely desirable, that to me and maybe you, the way that we process information and we've leveraged our resourcefulness, we see it as, you know, maybe, maybe not easy, but certainly simpler than it used to be to be able to get to that breakthrough point. But what's the gap and then what's the bridge? Really between these two demographics?

That's a complex question. I think that it's always been difficult, right? So, I think every generation has a different kind of difficult, right? So, it's a different kind of hard. I agree with some of the baseline elements of your argument here, which is The costs of education have just skyrocketed. You know, I'm afraid that secondary education has priced itself out of the market. And I think that they're really starting to see a pain point around that, right? So that, that needs to be reconciled. I think that there's strategies in play for the smaller boutique schools that are done more efficiently and at a lower price point. I think that there's, there's certainly a trend in that direction. So that's encouraging. Um, the bigger schools are going to need to catch up and become more efficient, right? So because at the end of the day, you know, if you tell a student that they can borrow $100,000 a year to go to a 4-year program, guess what? The, the law, the government, the banks, uh, Freddie Mac's gonna say, well, then you can borrow $100,000 a year. It's like, you know, that's just a scam, uh, which drives the price of tuition upward. So don't get me started on that, but I think that that whole thing's a bit of a scam. and, you know, driven by, you know, that the loan, the banking industry there, right? So that, that gets students into big trouble. It gets you into a hole that's really hard to get out of, right? So you could be $300,000, $400,000 in debt before you even hit the market and try to get a business loan if you want to start your own business, right? So your, your debt-to-income ratio is so jacked, you're unbankable, right? So there's, it's, it's really, really hard to overcome that, right? So that's just real. Right. That and the fact that everything is more expensive now, right? It's going to cost you $250,000 to $300,000 to either de novo startup, you know, open a new practice or to acquire a business, which I'm a big advocate of acquiring acquisition way. I'm way stronger on acquisition than on de novo startup. You better have a very good reason to do a de novo startup, right? So we've got 2,000 docs a year transitioning out of practice. There's so many of those, 82% of them are going to shutter by those practices. Practices, right? Acquire those practices. So that's probably a different podcast topic. But that's, you know, that's something to look at. But at the end of the day, you need to have an education, right? So there's a sophistication that you need if you're going to run a business. There's a, you know, you need 3 hats, right? So there's 3 hats available to you as a chiropractor. So a chiropractic business owner, first hat you get in school, learning how to be a doctor, right? So the doctoring hat, right? So the DC, the chiropractor hat, that's what school's for. Right? So that's an identity. It's a knowledge base. It's a skill set. Right? So then you get in practice and you realize it's like, oh snap, I still don't know how to run a practice. Right? So this is where you need to learn how to be an operator. Right? So an owner-operator is, you know, your systems, processes, procedures. Right? This is your attraction, conversion, retention, team building, and collections. That's, that's being an operator, running a practice. Right? So, and then if you're paying attention, you recognize it's like, oh, wait a minute. That has nothing to do with building a business. Right? Then you have a third hat, which is a third identity and a third knowledge base and skill set, which is being a business owner. Right? So, it's just understanding how to grow a business, right? Which is the economic engine that exists to drive productivity in the form of revenues and profits for the owners and for the investors in the team. That's a different animal. So, there's three hats. And if you are going to own a business, you've got to recognize it's like, I've got to become a badass. And all three of those identities. And it is a lot of work, but that's what the money's for. Right. So there is a massive opportunity. Right. So, you know, coach thousands of people. Right. So we have thousands of docs inside of the TRP system. So I get eyes on— I mean, I know what some of these young docs come out. You know, when I say young, I mean first, second, third year in practice. And, you know, $3 million is the new $1 million. Right. So they're building, you know, $2, $3 million practices out of the gates. Uh, and, you know, it's, I've never seen things move that quickly, right? So, you know, usually if you see a million-dollar practice, it's 10 years old, a $3 million practice is 15 years old, right? So you can, you can see, uh, the capacity to accelerate a practice. So I don't want us to think that the environment doesn't allow it. Um, there's technology and access to information, training, coaching. Systems, process. Marketing is a totally different animal. You know that, you know, as well or better than I do. It's just like, I built a 1,000-week practice before iPhones. Right? So we didn't have, we didn't have social media. Right? So, you know, there's an argument for and against that, but it's like, at the end of the day, it was, it was smashmouth marketing. Right? So it, you know, we had, we had internal and external marketing. We didn't have digital marketing. Right? So, you know, the idea, if I had had digital marketing, I look at that, I'm like, oh my gosh, give me that platform. So, you know, I know what it was like in the last 5 years of practice, but the first 15 years of practice, you know, it was, it wasn't the social media dynamic, right? So, you know, there's, there is, you are at such an advantage. It's so much, so much capacity to leverage technology now. And now AI is like, this is the next iteration. It's like adding the internet, right? So it's like now we have AI, everything can be done faster, more efficiently, and that means more profitably, right? So I don't want people to be discouraged. I want people to be encouraged and just recognize it's like, if you're on purpose and you're on mission and you're driven and you're servant-hearted, right? So, and you're willing to put in the work, um, you know, you'll be far, far more successful than I ever had an opportunity be.

Yeah. No, I agree with that. I think it's mindset. Yeah. Right out of the gate, it's like, are, are you growth-minded? Are you willing to be resourceful? And are you really willing to bet on yourself? You know? And, and if you are willing to bet on yourself and you, you are resourceful and you are growth-minded, um, then you better build the disciplines that it takes to be consistent over time. You know, cuz I know a lot of people that come outta the gates and, and they think they are who they thought they were and then they get into practice and they realize that like, Everybody's got a plan until they get punched in the mouth, and, um, and the days don't really get easier, you just get better. And so the only way that things get easier is by you choosing to get better. And so if you, if you let those challenges and those hardships whittle you down, I mean, eventually you're burnt out, you know. And I've seen that all too often. I, I experienced that. I opened during COVID so I think that's an asterisk that I'll always have next to, uh, you know, Move Chiropractic starting in 2020, which was just a really challenging time. And at the time, it could have been used as an excuse. I could have easily just like, you know, chalked it up to like, this is a really challenging time to open a practice. I shouldn't have opened. I shouldn't have had the blind courage to open in an extremely liberal area of the country such as Boulder, Colorado, with the types of restrictions and mandates that they had. But instead, I had— I had two choices. and it was either to concede and to say, you know, it was just too hard based on the conditions and the circumstances, or it was a, I will not fail, no matter what it takes, I will not fail.

And it served you, you know, it served you. Everything's relative. So on the other side of, you know, that, how much easier everything, you know, feels and seems. I mean, it's like it's wartime versus peacetime. You're on, you're on the other side of that, right? So, I mean, everybody's going to have that asterisk to be able to say, hey man, we practiced through COVID, right? So it was a completely hairball, you know, uh, period. And, you know, I think, I think my take, my takeaway for everybody around this question is don't try to figure it out on your own, right? So there are proven systems, there's methodologies. I mean, there are experts who will guide you. Right? So there are no shortcuts. Don't buy a shortcut from anybody. There are no shortcuts, but there are fast forward buttons. And ultimately you want to find the right system to follow and somebody that you're paying to hold you accountable to following it. Right? So that, those are my rules for life. All 7 categories of my life have a proven system, meaning it's proven to produce the fruit that you want, the outcomes that you're looking for, a proven system to follow. And somebody that you're paying to hold you accountable to following it. That's the key. That's the magic sauce right there. This is like, you don't need a travel agent. You need a tour guide, right? So you need somebody who has been there and done that and can show you around the side streets and the back roads who have already accomplished what you're trying to accomplish. There's a lot of travel agents out there. I mean, in social media, everybody's an expert. Everybody's a coach. Right. So it's like, really? Have you done it? Like really done it? Have you done it multiple times? Have you reproduced that? Have you taught other people to do it? Have they successfully reproduced what you did? It's like, you need, you need a, you need a real tour guide. Don't fall for the travel agents.

Yeah, that's good. Um, you said something, what did you say? Really caught my attention and I tried to keep a pin in it for 2 minutes and I lost it. Um, Anyway, it'll come back to me, but that's, that's good. Uh, I just ranted for like 7 minutes on YouTube the other day about that same thing because I'm seeing my feed is like being littered right now with— and I have imposter syndrome sometimes because I'm like, look, I— we started this, this side business, which was a side business at the time, um, you know, a few years back. Did I lose you? Okay. I'm just gonna hop right back in. Yeah, one of the things that I say, have an opinion on, is that, you know, you should latch on to the people that are where you want to be, but not just are where you want to be. They are where you want to be. They have what you want to have. They've done what you want to do, and they've done it in a way that you resonate with. You know, I think there's a lot of people that have these, like, this level of material success that we all kind of strive for.

For.

But it's like, how did they get there? You know, um, did they get there in a way that is realistic for you? You know, like, yeah, of course, if you have somebody that's built their wealth through a digital business, but you're running a brick-and-mortar chiropractic space, uh, very, very different, very different landscapes. You know, like we said, fundamental, uh, business domains. But when it comes down to like the experiences that that person had of, of being able to overcome all of the challenges that it takes to actually build a brick-and-mortar and service-oriented chiropractic business, it's completely different than building out, you know, digital VSL funnels and hosting webinars and selling digital coaching businesses that a lot of these people are making their money through now. And we know that to be a very viable way of reaching material wealth. But when it comes down to like being a chiropractor, man, you got to buy into chiropractors. You got to find chiropractors that have been in the game for a lot longer than you have. And, you know, that's, that's— I have imposter syndrome a lot of times as well because we built this business like pretty quickly, relatively quickly. I am very, very highly aware of that. I'm aware that like this, this profession really values tenure and experience. They want to know that like you've been through multiple seasons, years, decades, that, that, that you've been able to weather the storm and you've been able to figure out how to be adaptable and be durable. And I'm very aware that, like, I don't have that tenure and experience yet, which is why we stay in our lane, in our zone of expertise, and something that we've actually done inside of our business and continue to do inside of our business and have now replicated into, you know, multiple, almost 400 businesses, which is crazy to me. But we've seen it repeatedly work. And so now I have the confidence and the certainty to be able to say, like, Hey, we do have an answer if you're looking for a solution in this realm or domain. But there's a lot of people out there just flaunting stuff that I think is a true facade and it's a smokescreen. It's, it's, it's a shame because I think it takes away from a lot of the, the true experienced coaches and resources that are actually providing an offer to the marketplace that is valuable. What do you think about that?

Yeah. I mean, I think it kind of goes with my belief that everyone needs a chiropractor, but I'm not everybody's chiropractor, right? So, everyone needs a coach, but I'm not everybody's coach, right? So, that's why we have 15 coaches in the Remarkable Practice. So, you're going to have different people that are trying to accomplish different things. And, that usually sounds like I'm trying to solve this problem or this set of problems or achieve these goals, right? So, And then you've got people at different stages of their career. They're in launch or they're in build or in their scale or they're in exit, right? So, or they're wrestling with the different domains inside of those seasons. Is it an attraction issue, new patient generation? Is it a conversion issue? So a sales issue? Is it delivery and retention issues? Or is it a team building issue? Or is it a money issue? Right? So, you know, none of us is as smart as all of us. So it's just really important. Like, I think if, you know, if there's something special about our organization is that we've got docs who have been in it for 35 years. We've got docs that have been in it for 5 years and everything in between. As far as our coaching staff is concerned, like we've got some studs that are 5, 7, 8, 10 years in practice that are crushing it right now. And they're on the bleeding edge of what's going on. And I just embrace the fact that those guys, it's been a long time since I, you know, launched a practice. So for me, my energy is on teaching people how to scale and optimize and how to build an enterprise and exit. Like that's where my heart and head and energy is. So it's really important that we have like coaches across the whole arc of that because they're in it. Right. So it's like, oh, launching practice. Oh, I did that 5 years ago. Let me, you know, I'm super excited about that. Let me teach you how to do that. You know, could I teach how to do it academically? Is it where I want to spend all my time? You know, not, not really. So we have 2 coaches that focus on that. Same thing with Build, you know, it's like I'm trying to figure out my systems and How to do a day 1, day 2, day 3, like that's awesome. Love that stuff. Cut my teeth on it. Right. But we've got 5 coaches that are awesome at that. Right. And scale is like trying to figure out this associate doctor thing. That's super challenging. Right. So you want to have a coach that's like, hey, how many, how many associates did you have? I had 40 associates. So it was like, there ain't going to be a problem. You're going to really get it. I'm like, oh yeah, no, I've been through that. And now I've coached, I don't know, people through 1,000. Associate doctors, like how to do that. It's like, you want somebody who's been there, done that so many times that it's like, listen, you don't even know what to ask me, Travis. It's like, like, I know you're showing up here with 3 questions. Those are good questions. Let me give you better questions. Here's what you should be asking me. It's like, that's what, that's what comes with, you know, knowledge plus experience equals wisdom, right? So it's like, you need wisdom, you know, in your corner. So it's not, it's not just tactics. People are just so enamored with tactics right now. It's like you need wisdom.

Yeah. Yeah. That's good. You got to have the counsel, man. Well, I'm, I'm really glad that I have you in my counsel. I have your team in my counsel. I have Dr. Eric in my counsel and I always get to come back. You know, it's just so cool again, like with the fitness analogy, it's like, even if I drift off and it's like, all right, I know what I need to do. I'm over here. I'm doing it. I'm doing it. I'm doing it. Reach a new problem. Come a new level of challenges that I had never experienced before, like, I know exactly where to come. Come right back to the council. Like, hey, let me in. Help me. Forgiveness. And help me, help me get to the next level, which has been just such a great resource to have. So yeah, I mean, huge advocate for you and TRP and what you guys have built, because like you said, you have, you have an expert panel, you know, and I love that. And I love that you have a wide range of experiences and expertise and personalities that can fit as coaches as well. It's like it's the Hall of Justice, like you said.

Like, yeah, it's not the Superman show, right?

Exactly.

Hall of Justice.

That's right.

If there's a problem in the ocean, Marvel, send Aquaman. So that's right.

Yeah, I love that. So kind of final question here and we'll wrap up, but this may be a deeper question. I don't know. You have to tell me. But using the grandfather frame. You know, you and Camila are sitting on the front porch, and I, I may— I mainly want to frame this from you though, not necessarily you and Camila, um, as a team, which I know it might be hard to separate, but you as an individual. You're sitting on the front porch and you're near the end of your life, and you know that, and you're just reflecting on young Stephen and who you were then versus, um, you know, Stephen of old now, and like who, who you are and what you've done and who you've become along the way. Like what are you the most proud of you for doing over the course of your life?

The short answer there is be my family. Um, like my parents were, you know, fant— are fantastic parents, right? So, but they are world-class grandparents, right? So true, like the true patriarch and matriarch. So I've gotten that modeled for me. Like I got, just got my, my dad modeling being a husband and then and my dad modeling being a father and now seeing, you know, and I'm saying my dad because I'm the dad half of this equation, right? So, uh, you know, my mom and dad are just world-class grandparents and what they've, how hard they've worked to create this, this family, right? So, and I look at everything that we have and everything we get to do and fill in the blanks, all that stuff. Um, I see it now with my kids and I'm just like, oh my gosh, like like, at some point it's going to be my kids' kids. And I can just see that as like, that is, you know, sitting on my porch, like we've got a place up in Maine, sitting on, you know, looking out at the ocean, having everybody out on the front lawn and hanging out. And really, you know, it's one thing when your family loves each other. It's a totally different thing when they like each other. Uh, you got a full Francine. You were up in Maine, actually. You, you got the three generations. You got a full Francine dinner. Uh, you know, it's a, you know, it's a circus, man, but there's lots of love. People are fighting for oxygen, telling stories, just loving on each other. We have an expression, no one likes a Franson like a Franson, right? So it's just like, we just love being together. And man, I don't know, you know, there's an expression, the only thing you get to take to heaven is your kids, right? So it's like, you know, you can only bring people to heaven. So there's something about like creating this family, this environment where it's like, I've got this God-fearing, just loving family. They just love to be together. They like each other. They like to be together. To me, you know, that, you know, everybody's like, oh, money doesn't, you know, buy happiness, whatever. It's like, yeah, but you know what? It's really sets a nice environment. It makes it a lot easier. Right. So all of the resources to me are like to be able to create an environment like that and to be able to support everybody and, and provide, uh, and just create extraordinary experiences. Like that. That's the abundance to me. So, I want to be able to be there for that. So, I want to stay healthy. I want to stay fit. I want to live past 100 and not regret it. And I really do want to be that patriarch that my children, my grandchildren, my great-grandchildren come to for wisdom and for encouragement. I hope I'm coaching till my last breath.

You will be. You will be, man. That's who you are. That's who you are, and rightfully so. You've got a lot to share, man. A lot to share. And I know it came with scars, but I see you as I— you wear your scars like medals, and I love that. Well, I appreciate you being here. You know, I just, again, selfishly, I really love the fact that you were willing to give 90 minutes of your calendar which, if your calendar looks anything like I think it does, it's littered in colored squares. So, there's probably not a lot of white space on there right now with all the things that you're doing between—

High and best use of my time today. So, thanks, man.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I appreciate you being here and I'm sure the listeners do too. My audience is mainly, I think over 80%, men between the age of 25 44. Imagine that. But if you were to leave a young man with one thing today, what would it be?

I think who you are in the morning matters. So when you look at yourself, you are who you are in the morning. So own your morning, get up and make that super intentional. Like, so if it means that first doesn't have to be 2 hours, right? So it's like, if you get up early enough, you can find 2 hours, by the way, even through babies. But you are who you are in the morning. And if you look at that, there's a lot of depth to that because it really starts to speak into the night before and everything else that goes around you. So that was a gift that was given to me by an early coach of mine was to master my morning. And it's really served me well. So, that was truth. And, it's been a great foundation. So, for that group of people, if they're podcast listeners, what I'll tell you if you liked this conversation, especially more of the business components but really the whole— we teach a whole integrated life. The Remarkable Life is an integrated life. It's about creating the remarkable business that supports your remarkable life and not competes with it. Join us on our Remarkable CEO podcast. I'd love to have the opportunity to continue to share there. Dr. Pete Cameo and I have been doing that for— we're now our 7th year. Every Tuesday, we drop an awesome episode on Tuesday afternoon. So, super resource. You can go to our website where it's hosted and you can put in the search function anything you want us— you'll hear what we talk about in the last 7 years. If there's a subject you want to unpack, there'll be 3 or 4 or 5 episodes. We don't gatekeep. We share it all right there. So, remarkable CEO, podcast for chiropractors. I'd love to have you follow us over there.

Really good. I'm pretty sure that's how I found you several years ago. And, they are my counsel and have been for the past several years. So, I absolutely recommend that. Couldn't recommend it more. So, thank you so much for being here, Dr. Stephen. I truly appreciate your time.

You're very welcome, Dr. Travis. Thanks for asking me, buddy. Absolutely. See you soon.