Christmas Is NOT a Pagan Holiday, And Here’s Why!

All right. All right, everybody. Welcome back to the King's Council live with myself, riley meek, and Mr. Christian Edwards, where we have unfiltered conversations on politics, current events. We do this from a kingdom perspective to impact culture and ultimately transform lives. And today, man, we got an incredible show today. I'm so excited about this because if you can't tell, I'm, I'm rocking some new, some new gear today. I may look like an elf.

I got even without that outfit. Come on, man.

I haven't introduced you yet on the show yet, so you can talk yet. Okay, but we're gonna, we're gonna dive into some fun stuff today, guys, because if you saw the title of this is Christmas. Is it Pagan? Is it a pagan holiday? Is it even right as Christians to be. Should we be celebrating this? We're going to dive into this. We're going to dive into. Is December 25th. Is that actually when Jesus was born? Is it even all right if we, we decorate trees? Or are those idols in our life? We're going to dive into all of this and so much more. And I even think Christian's got, like, he loves these Christmas songs, so we're gonna dive into so much of this. Perhaps he'll even sing some for us here. But first off, Christian, what's, what's happening, brother? You're looking mighty jolly today.

Thank you. Thank you. I hope you don't mean big and fat when you say jolly like, like Santa Claus, but you're looking, you're looking very elfie today.

Yes, yes, thank you. I, I, I feel like it's.

You sent me a picture of that earlier, you wearing that, and I couldn't believe you're actually wearing it for this live episode here.

Yeah, man. Tis the season. Tis the season. If, if they could only see the red and white striped pants below. It really, it just brings the whole outfit together.

You're flexible, man. Throw your leg up.

I'm not doing that. I'm not doing it. I'm not doing it.

You're a Christian. You don't want to tempt the ladies. I, I understand.

Yeah, exactly.

You don't want to be a stumbling block. I get it.

Yes, exactly. Right. Exactly, man. Well, I'm to, to dive into this because as I've scrolled YouTube and, and other social media platforms, I, I start to see all these different posts on Christians, you know, celebrating Christmas. It's like, it's so funny when, like, non Christians and, and dare I call them pagans, attack us for certain things because the ultimate reason for this entire holiday is about the birth of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. But we're going to dive into this. Is it actually okay for, for this can. I mean, we hear about this as with all the different holidays, with Easter, we've got, you know, the bunny rabbit, certainly Halloween. But is it all right. Is it all right for us to be celebrating this in, in the way that the world shows us how to do it right? The, the secular world we're going to call it with, with trees and decorations and jolly St. Nick, right. And, and all these different things. We're gonna. Let's. Let's dive into this and, and talk about it from, you know, even get. We're going to give some history here for folks. And then also we'll. We'll dive into some scripture on, on what does this actually mean? Because we look throughout Scripture, Christmas is not mentioned in the Bible at all. There's no, it's not like, hey, this is Christmas and It happened on December 25th. But there's definitely accounts for what we're going to dive into today. We know that, that Jesus was born. We know that there's to. In my opinion, there, there was a celebration right there. There were those, the magi and, and the shepherds that, that brought gifts. Gold, frankincense and, and myrrh. Now how it maybe is portrayed, like with the three wise men and things like that, that has maybe gone down a little bit of a different path where it's not completely accurate compared to what, what scripture actually says, but let's dive into this, man. Is December 25th. Was that, was that Jesus's actual birthday? What do you, what do you think, bro?

I want to pose this question. Whether it is or isn't, does it really matter? We don't even know what year Jesus was born in. Some people say 4 B.C. some people say 6 B.C. and whether it's December 25th or February 2nd or May 22nd, my birthday, no matter what it is, it doesn't really matter when he was actually born. The, the fact of the matter is we're celebrating his birth in all. All that comes with that, all that was brought into the world with, with the glory, the light of the world, the, the great shepherd coming into this world to be a savior for us. So right off the bat, I, I don't think Christians or even non Christians should get too uppity about it because it's what we're celebrating. We're not, we're not celebrating the day as in a pagan sort of way we're, we're celebrating something that's remarkable. You mentioned Easter and. Yeah, the world has hijacked that with the Easter bunny and this goddess of fertility that that's attached to that and all that. Well, there's some things with Christmas that we celebrate today where I think Christians actually hijacked some things of the world to point people towards Christ on this day.

Yeah.

So I think whether it's December 25th or any day, we should always be pointing people towards Christ. And this is just a great. They say it's the reason for the season. Right. Jesus Christ is the reason for the season. Well, reason we open our mouth and, and proclaim the gospel of salvation to everybody. 365 every day of the year because he is to be celebrated and every day is to be celebrated because he's our Savior and we're going to live forever because of him. So.

Right, right.

You know, let's get into this. I, I, I, I, I did a lot of research about Santa Claus, St. Nicholas. I can't wait to get into that. Exactly. I can't wait. Cool.

I can't wait to hear. Before we get into that though, just, I, I did a little bit of digging into this as well and I, I was, I had read something maybe I heard somebody that, that said that the reason why December 25th was, was chosen. I don't know exactly when, when that, that that date was chosen, but I mean there's, there's a lot of pagan gods that, that had some celebrations in and around that time that, that sometimes people will reference back. Like that's what it's, it's actually about. So you shouldn't be celebrating. Chris, if you're a Christian, don't celebrate Christmas on the, on the 25th because it's like in celebration of the Sun God or all the, all these different crazy weird ones. Which, what I love about that though is that everything God creates, Satan counterfeits. Right. I think Mark Driscoll is the first one I ever heard say that. So. And we see that with all sorts of things, certainly with holidays, whether it's, it's Easter to, to Christmas to freaking, you know, even when, when Mardi Gras takes place, like all these different things that they're, they're trying to take over or create their own celebrations when we come back, come back to just. Okay, what is, what is the gospel? Right. Or what when through all throughout creation, in, in leading into the, the New Testament days we'll call it. And but one of the things That I actually read was the reason 25 December was chosen was because the thought or idea was that possibly Jesus would, may, may have been born on the, on the 25th of March. And the thought back then was that they, they would die on the same day that they were born. Or. Excuse me, they. Yes, yes. So the day Jesus died on 25 March would be nine months later or prior to, if that makes Sense, would be December 25th. And so that, but we don't know that. I mean, that's not, that's, that's obviously not true. We know that people don't die, don't get born and don't die on the exact same day with. We see that now, depending upon which calendar, of course, that you're looking at. But that's not actually true. But that is one of the concepts or thoughts of why December 25th was chosen for, for us as, as Christians to celebrate Christmas. But there's so, so much more, man.

So right off the bat, it's not that December 25th can't possibly be the day. It very well, very well could be the day that he was actually born.

So there's a 1, 1 in 365 chance of it. Right? I mean.

Right, right. But to not celebrate Christmas be. If it came from pagan roots, that's like saying don't go to church on Sunday because Sunday is actually named Sunday. It was named after a pagan sun God. Right. Or the day Wednesday, which was named after a pagan, a pagan God as well. So it's like, oh, don't do anything on Wednesdays. Church associated. Because, you know, back in the day on Wednesdays they used to worship these, this God. Well, that doesn't mean that you're worshiping that God on that Wednesday. And it's like, like Nike, right? How many people look at the Nike swoosh and they're like, they immediately think of the, the, the Greek goddess Nike. Not many. They think, right. And you don't associate somebody who's wearing Nike, I was wearing a Nike King's Council shirt last week. Right. You don't associate somebody who's wearing Nike to be a worshiper of that goddess. So it's foolishness to think that, oh, if you celebrate Christmas, you're just automatically conforming to the customs of paganism. It's just foolishness.

Right. But it's easy. Again, I think Christianity is one of, if not pretty much the only faith that gets attacked so many different ways because, because it is truth. It is the one and only truth. And so we should expect there's just crazies out there that are going to continue to attack anything and everything that we do. And so it's not, it doesn't surprise me, right, that any of this actually takes place. But exactly to, to your point, I mean there's not any day inherently that's like a pagan day, right? It's, it's what meaning you give to it, right? Even, even, even Halloween, for example. Yes. There's people that, that celebrate it and, and, and then a lot of Christians that don't celebrate it. And I respect both. Right? And it's not, it's not that you're celebrating Halloween for satanic purposes, but you're, you're trick or treating, you're allowing your kids to participate in, in fun activity, right? I didn't even know that it was like an evil weird thing when I was little. Like, you just, you just dress up and you're, you want to go get candy, right? Like I'm go get some of that candy. That's what it was all about for me. But I, I understand both sides of it and obviously raising, raising Ellie and now Titus. It's like these are things we're just going to talk about and I think that's what's most important. Like is Jesus Lord of your life, in your household? And can you talk about it and, and explain to them that yes, there are things that are going on in the world that are, are trying to take, take our attention off of the true reason for, for Jesus's birth. Right? The true reason. Even if we talk about Easter, the true reason for his, his death on the cross and in resurrection. And that's, that happens in your household. And that, that needs to be first and foremost. Number one for us are we. Is Jesus Lord of the house? And if so, then we're, it's, it's, we can't protect our kids from, from all the things that are going on in the world. At some point they're going to get exposed to it. And if, if Ellie's gonna get exposed to it at some point, she better hear it first for my home. She's gonna hear it first from daddy and Mommy and, and that's how we have to lead our households.

Well, amen, but. Amen.

But I wanna, I wanna hear about you. Let's hear about jolly old St. Nick and, and Christmas trees. This is another topic I kind of dove into a little bit just the thought that were worshiping. I, I, I've seen some comments in, in not yet on this one. But like on, on people's post of you're. You're worshiping the Christmas tree and, and that's that you're creating an idol in your household. It's like, no, no, you're not. No, you're not, man. What are your thoughts on that?

Right? If you are worshiping the Christmas tree, then that's an issue. Just the same as if you're worshiping anything else apart from Jesus. You know, it's idolatry. It's one of the ten commandments. No idols, no other gods before me. No idols 1 and 2. Right? So but if you're worshipping the Christmas.

Tree, like, you're probably not even that listening to technology. You're out eating some granola right now. And you know what I mean? Like, come on, give me a break. Don't be worshiping trees, people.

Don't you eat granola?

I love granola, man. Keto. Keto granola. It's. It's like, it's just. It's delicious. But I ain't worshiping it, man.

Okay, well, just back to the date of Christmas. The earliest recorded Christmas, Dec. 25, was 325 A.D. i believe in Rome, but that Sola soul Invictus, that, that pagan festival that people think that Christians hijacked, that wasn't even established yet at that time. So it's up in the air. Yet you hear people that say for certain that. That Christians hijacked it. If you hear other people say for certain that Christians started celebrating this before pagan festivals. So e doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. But for Christmas trees, a lot of people pull up this verse in Jeremiah 10, 2, 4 says, Thus says the Lord, do not learn the way of the nations, for the customs of the people are vanity. A tree from the forest is cut down and worked with an ax by the hands of a craftsman. They decorate it with silver and gold. They fasten it with hammer and nails so that it cannot move. So it sounds like, oh, man, that sounds like God saying, don't put up Christmas trees. But sure. But 100. This is referring to the making of idols, right? It was a pagan practice back then. And I don't think anybody putting up a Christmas tree right now, even if it came from pagan traditions, I don't think anybody right now, even if they're a non believer, I don't think they're putting up a tree and worshiping it. You know, they're not making an idol out of it. They may make an idol out of the holiday Christmas in itself and they get all giddy about spoiling their kids and getting, getting together with family and you could actually make that an idol in your life. But I don't think the actual Christmas tree is something that people idolize.

Right. Maxing out the credit card, you know, doing things like that.

Right.

I actually, I had, I had actually read on this the one of the reasons why the, the Christmas tree kind of became so popular. It was, I mean most everything that we see nowadays, at least within the last 100, maybe 150 years. A lot of it has to do with just like the commercialization of it and marketing to the extent. And one of the things that I read was the, the Royal family actually had a photo published that I don't even remember what magazine that it was. But it. That like pop really popular popularized it in like the mid-1800s. And since then it's just become kind of a tradition that, that people are, are doing over and over again. But back to it's. It.

Yeah. It said that the, the great Christian Martin Luther, 16th century German theologian, leader of the Protestant Reformation that he's credited for with the decorating of Christmas trees. It says that one evening he was walking home, it was a, a snowy night and the evergreens were glistening under the starlight. And he wanted his kids to experience that. So he put up a tree in his house and he put candles on it because. And really if you think of the symbolism of a Christmas tree, no matter where it came from, Christians have hijacked this now. And the evergreen tree represents eternal life through Jesus Christ.

Right.

The, the candles or lights on it symbolize Christ as the light of the world. The star on top represents the star of Bethlehem. Excuse me, Bethlehem. So even no matter where it came from, I think it's pretty cool that I have a Christmas tree downstairs with lights on it and a star and I could share stories of Jesus with my four year old son. And yes, there's gift giving and even the, we'll get into that with St. Nicholas and the gift giving and where that tradition came from. But I, it's a beautiful thing. We should be gift giving every day. We should be generous as Christians every day of the year.

Yeah, right. Yep. That's for sure. Yeah, I think that's good. That just reminds me, you know, what the enemy means for evil. God. God makes for good. Right. And that's just a prime example of, you know, it's a great way to tell the, the actual story. Right. Bringing people on a journey of like hey, this is what the star represents. This is what the tree represents. How about even the candy cane, right? That, that, you know, wasn't it red and white for a reason? It's by. By his stripes, man.

We.

We are healed. And all of that can be correlated back to or being able to just express to people or witness to people or to your kiddos, just explain to them even the reason for the season. I'm curious on this. And even in the chat for those. I have never one time in my life cut down a real Christmas tree. I mean, you could probably imagine that Christian. But growing up, that wasn't ever a tradition in our family. Was it ever a tradition. And anybody in the chat let us know. Is that your tradition? Like to do it? Because I've got some other friends. I was over at Caleb Spitler's house last night actually, and they've got a. They went out and hacked the tree down. And you know, it's a nice looking tree in their house. It smells nice. But bro, we've got like a. I don't even know, 14, 15 foot tall tree. I got to get this huge freaking ladder, but it's like three big things I just put together and plug it in the wall. Like that's my idea of a Christmas tree. Did you grow up cutting down a tree ever?

We did it one year. It was miserable. It was cold. I remember my dad trying to hack this thing down. He's not really good with tools either. And we get home, we decorate it and then just drag it into the house. All the pine needles that were just everywhere. And then, you know, a few days it's up and the pine needles start falling down. I remember my mother vacuuming. She's like, never again. Never again. So. So we did it one year. And after that, it was always the fake tree. Because guess what? With a fake tree, you don't have to buy a new one every year either. But. But anybody, if that's their tradition, that, that's good family time. I believe the Spitler kids and any kid who has a family tradition of doing that, I got to believe that it's creating great memories for them. But for me, I. I put up this fake little bad boy. We didn't even know we had this one. I told you, Lucy, when we moved it down here, she went all out with Christmas stuff. I found this one in the garage. We hadn't even put this one up. I was like, babe, where we get this one? I don't remember a four foot tree anywhere, but this will Be good for our Christmas episode of King's Council Live. So let me grab that bad boy.

It's looking nice man, in the background. I thought, I thought you got a real one and it's like spray painted it white and everything else but.

No.

That'S funny though. Never again. Just. Which also comes back to just the holiday season. People get so stressed out and it's like ah, you're trying to like go Christmas shopping and get the presents and, and you know, you're go over to this house and this house and it just, it gets to become more of a stress than anything else for people when hey, no, that's not the reason for the season. It's, it's, it's coming back to just again. Why are we, why are we celebrating the the of our Savior? And I want to hear more though about what you, you've learned about Santa Claus and St. Nick.

Is it St. Nicholas? St. Nicholas was a beast. He was a, a real dude. He's the most popular of the Greek Orthodox saints. Like he, he used to Greek Orthodox what St. Patrick is to Irish people. Right. So he, he's a legend. He, he's a beast.

He was, Was he, was he actually big and fat?

No, I, I haven't read anything that he's big and fat. But we'll, we'll get to how St Nicholas turned into Santa Claus and how Coca Cola had a whole lot to do with that, which is a good little message on marketing as well.

So he was so, so like Billy Bob Thornton, Santa Claus, that, that, that type of Santa.

Drunk Santa. Yeah. I remember watching that movie. I laughed so hard, but I felt so empty at the end. I was just like depressed.

Yes. Yeah, that tends to do it.

Yeah. That's probably Billy Bob Thornton's life though. So there you go.

That's true. That is true. Yeah.

So St. Nicholas, he born in 288 A.D. and he was born at a time the first 300 years after Christ. And when Christianity got started. It is so remarkable that it spread throughout the world despite the persecution that was going on. That's remarkable. So let's make note of, of that. And this is a guy whose parents were wealthy and they both died. There was a plague, he died and he, he, he was left a very generous inheritance. Now at the time there was this movement through, throughout Christianity called Pism. And what pietism was in this movement is Christians to show how sincere they were about their faith is they would give away all their money and join, join a monastery. Right. So he decided with this large inheritance that he was going to give it all away and monastery. So what he would do, he didn't want to get any credit for it. So he would sneak around at night, he would go into town, he, he would know who's poor and needed money. And at night he would throw money, or probably gold in through the window. And as, like legend has it, it would land on the socks or shoes that were drying by the fireplace. Hence where we get Christmas stockings today. Right. Which is kind of cool. If you put up stockings. Are you a pagan? Well, they actually come from the story. So what really made St Nicholas blow up was there's a very popular story and it's actually depicted in Greek Orthodox, Orthodox churches. And he's, he's also in like the 9th century, adopted as like a patron saint of the Russian Orthodox Church. So there's a lot of St. Nicholas churches all over Eastern Europe. But there was this father who had three daughters. He was a merchant and his wife had died and he went out of business. He went bankrupt and is back in those days, if you owe money to somebody, the creditor, they would take your, whatever money you had, the land that you had, and if you had kids, they would take your kids. So and the kids would essentially be slaves to them. They would be bond servants. They'd be working off this debt. But even back then, when a, a child was enslaved like that, that there was a sex trafficking type thing that was going on as well. So when you, if you knew you're going to lose your kids to something like this, it wasn't just, oh, yeah, they're going to work hard the rest of their lives. It's like, oh no, like, I can't let this happen to my kids. So this father's idea was to, all right, I'm going to marry off these three girls as quickly as possible because once they're married, the creditors can't take them from me. The problem was he didn't have enough money for the dowry. Right. The dowry was back in those days, the, the bride and the bride's family had to come with a monetary gift to the groom.

Right.

I made Lucy do that to me too. She had to give me all her money before I would marry her. But he didn't even have money for the dowry. So Nicholas, he got, got wind of this and one night he, he went to the house, he, he put the money in the window, enough for the oldest daughter to get married. And quickly the father married off that daughter. Well then soon enough he came by another Night at midnight. Again, the idea of Santa Claus coming at night, it comes from here. St Nicholas at night time, he want to be secretive about it because he didn't want to get any of the glory. He did it for the second daughter and the father married off the second daughter. Now by the third time, the father is expecting this, right? So he actually stays awake and he catches Nicholas do this, and he runs outside, he grabs him, and Nicholas makes him promise that he's not going to tell anybody because he wants God to get the glory for all this. Well, who's gonna, who's gonna abide by that? He didn't. Obviously. Word got out. It was a big buzz around town that Nicholas was this. It's funny, they didn't even have to turn that. But he was kind of this secret Santa that was coming and just blessing people with these gifts. So he gives away all his money and he decides to, to join a monastery. Right? So the, the monastery that he joins, he wanted to go back to, to Israel, the Holy Land. Now he was in Turkey, right. Modern day. What is modern day Turkey today? Which a lot of the Bible, a lot of the New Testament churches, they're in modern day Turkey. Ephesus. Right. So, and actually, here's a fun fact about St Nicholas. He. He's actually was adopted by pawn brokers as the patron, as their patron saint. So. And it's based on that story. So if you go to pawn shops. I've never been to a pawn shop in my life, but I even looked it up to confirm what you have.

You've never been to a pawn shop?

No. I say pawn pond. That's my New Jersey. I say a pawn. Never been to a haunter.

Wow.

Were you selling or buying? Were you. Were you out in Vegas and like hawking a watch or something?

I've never sold anything to a pawn shop, but it's kind of fun to go look like what, get some deals every now and then. I.

That.

Has anybody been to the pawn shop before? Let us know in the chat if like, I just think that's weird. You've never been into a pawn shop, man. I figured like that was your thing and I thought that was like a New Jersey thing of all places, man.

Well, here, here's the thing too. Plenty of pawn shops. If you go into really bad neighborhoods that I probably wouldn't even want to get out of the car. It's like a church, a corner store, pawn shop. Right, right. That's what it is every block. And it's, it's Pretty funny that there's a church on every block, but the, the neighborhood looks like that. Yeah, I, I, where the pawn shops were where I grew up, it's like, I'm gonna lock my doors in this, this neck of the woods.

Yeah, that's funny. All right, so anyway, sorry to do.

Yeah, no, no. So today these pawn shops apparently have three gold balls or like, ornaments that hang by their doors. And this is in homage to the, the patron saint of Pawn Brokers, St. Nicholas. And those three gold balls represent that, those three daughters that he gave money to in this story, which I would guarantee that most pawn shops, they probably put it up, they're like, for superstition or all sorts of reasons, and they have no idea why they're actually putting up there. But that's the, where that tradition came from. So he decides to join a monastery back in the Holy Land. So he goes from Turkey to the Holy Land, and he says on his way, the Lord told him not to hide his light under a bushel. Right? Meaning it's like, okay, I'm not going to go there. I'm not going to stay there. I'm going to go back to Turkey and just preach the gospel again. This is the worst time in human history to be a Christian, quite frankly. Diocletian is the Roman emperor at this time, and he tried to literally exterminate Christianity. So pretty rough time, we think, like, you know, last four years was bad for Christians under Biden. It's like, this is nothing compared to, right, the early 4th century with Diocletian. So before he goes back to Turkey, he goes to Bethlehem because he wanted to go to the, the Church of the Nativity, right? And, and apparently he was there and people saw this and people kind of knew who he was. And he kneeled down in front of this Nativity scene at the Church of the Nativity in Israel. And if you ever see any pictures, I googled it. There are pictures out there where you see Santa, like, kneeling in front of baby Jesus. That picture in itself is inspired by St Nicholas going to that Nativity church way back when in, in early three hundreds. So it's so cool to see, like, all these pagan things that you see now Santa Claus, like where they, they actually came from. So he goes back to Turkey, right? And he goes to a city called Myra. Now, little did he know that the bishop of, of the church of Myra had died. And the church leadership, they, they didn't know who to install as the next bishop. One of the church leaders had a dream and said, the first person to show up to church tomorrow is going to be named Nicholas and he's going to be our new bishop. Lo and behold, Nicholas is the first person at that church the next day. And he's given the unfortunate news that he is now the new bishop. The unfortunate news because Diocletian was going around arresting bishops and killing them. So he still accepted it. He accepted the position. And he was quickly arrested, put in prison, and he was awaiting death right? Now, in the meantime, Diocletian died. He got this intestinal disorder. He died. Right. I'm sorry. He stepped down from the throne, which is unheard of because if you're a Roman emperor, you consider yourself a God yourself. So it's unheard of to step down because of medical reasons, right? Because it shows your. Your mortality. So but God struck him with an intestinal disease and he stepped down. And then the, the guy who replaced him, his name is Galerius. Right. Galerius reigned for six years and he died of an intestinal disease. Right. So I love how God, you know, we talked last week and some people in the chat were getting a little uppity about, you know, how could God do bad things to good people? Well, he did some things to bad people here, too. People who are trying to kill and eliminate Christianity. So six years, so what happens now? And Diocletian, he was horrible man. Like, he was one of the worst emperors. And he literally tried to exterminate Christianity. There was the 10 persecutions of Christians in those first couple hundred years. And I mean, like, they were being thrown to the lions. Like, it was brutal stuff. So. And Diocletian, he had lost a couple battles to Persia. And he asked his generals, he said, why are we losing these wars? And they said, because we've forsaken our pagan gods. And he was like, okay, well, that was like, that's it. That sealed it. We are going to make sure nobody worships anybody but these pagan gods. Anyhow, he stepped down, delirious, gets in there, he. He gets killed while he dies after six years. And now there was four generals under him that now fought it out to see who would be control in this new emperor. And thankfully for Christians, and thankfully for. For Nicholas, who was still in prison at this time, they hadn't killed him yet. All these years go by, he's still in prison awaiting death. It's Constantine. And we talked about him a little bit last week. Constantine, he became the emperor in 312 AD, and in 313, he issued the, the, the edict of Milan. And what that did was he not only embraced Christianity, but he by all accounts was a decent dude because it gave everybody to practice whatever religion they wanted. It gave them religious freedom without intrusion from the Roman government. So that was good news for Nicholas because all those Christians who were in jail, just because they were Christians, they got out. And Constantine, I don't know much of his story before he went to wage this last battle against one of these generals. The first two kind of dropped off quickly. Then there was this big battle between he and. I forget the other general's name, but on his way there, he apparently saw this cross in the sky and words written in this sign, you will conquer. And he knew that Jesus was God. And that's why he embraced Christianity after that. So. And he's the one who's responsible for the Council of Nicaea where they got about 500 bishops from across the. The known world to come together when disputes had had arisen. But so now Nicholas is out of prison. He. He's about to say something. Are you yawning? You trying to hold the yawn back?

Yeah, trying to hold it.

Sorry I'm boring you with this history. I apologize.

Fantastic job.

But he, he went, he started publicly preaching against paganism and it led to Christians actually tearing down the temple of Diana in Ephesus, which when we did our Bible study on Wednesday morning, King's Council, biblestudy.com if you want to join us, 7am Central Time on Wednesday mornings. We, we talked through the book of Acts and we talked about this in Acts 19. And that temple of Diana was one of the seven wonders of the world and it was gigantic. And there was temple prostitutes and Diana was this sex goddess, right? And it was like Las Vegas on steroids, right? Las Vegas is Sin City. This temple Diana was a million times worse. So he was preaching his butt off. And Christians tore that temple down, right? He started preaching against. Now back in, in Roman days, when a woman gave birth, they would place the baby at the, the foot of the husband and the husband would pick up the baby. And if he wanted to keep the baby, the family would. If he didn't, he would hand it back to the wife, she put it in a basket and put the basket outside, and the baby would just die. But there were, thank God for the spread of Christianity because there were Christians that were going around, they would hear these babies crying and they would go rescue the kids and raise them as their own. It was called the exposure of unwanted infants. So Nicholas, he preached against that. So he Was if he was preaching today, he would certainly be a pro life preacher. I. I bet you anything that he would have voted for Donald Trump over Kamala this past election. Just based on. Right, so the. That. This transformation to. To Santa Claus when he died on. On December 6th. Oh, gosh, the. The years escaping me now. He died on December 6, but it became known as the Day of St Nicholas, where people would start giving gifts to one another in honor of Saint Nicholas. So the. The folklore of. Of Christmas. Well, not even the folklore, but the tradition and customs of Christmas of this secret Santa. Right. The secret gift giving was a tradition on the day of St. Nicholas to honor the. This guy Nicholas who gave all his money away. And it was a lot of money. He just gave it all away, and he tried to do it as secretly as possible. This idea of Santa Claus coming in the middle of the night, that came from Nicholas, because he did. He went to these houses in the middle of the night, and this idea of stockings, he threw the money on the socks and.

And.

And shoes that were drying by the fireplace. And this idea of stuffing stockings, that's where that comes from as well. Now fast forward from that, right? When you think of jolly old Saint Nick, you just think of Santa Claus. Right?

Right.

You don't think of some dude like, I. I doubt. I. I don't think. Well, I don't know. Spurgeon was kind of big, but I don't think there's too many dynamic Christians over the years who are, like, fat. Like, fat. Like Santa Claus is depicted. Right. Especially if you're like an itinerant preacher. Like. Like Nicholas was just going out preaching the word. Like, I. I kind of get a picture in my mind that he was fit, he took care of himself. If you're a Christian, you should take care of yourself. Right? Our body. Our bodies are temples. It's where the Holy Spirit resides. But anyhow, before Coca Cola came around and really made Santa Claus what we know Santa to be today, this. This idea of Santa, it was a poem called a visit from St Nicholas, obviously the Nicholas we're talking about, but he's depicted as a jolly old elf in this poem in 1823, which is.

Why I wore this. Get up today, man. Come on.

Right? Yeah. A young, fit, tan. Tan in Minnesota in December.

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely, yes.

You look like if.

If.

If a real life else.

Hey, calm your words. Slow your words here. Don't, don't.

I was actually gonna give you a compliment. I was. Okay, okay.

All right. Proceed.

Sorry. I'm sipping I got this Christmas mug in front of me for those of you who are, are watching here. It's a little hot cocoa on, on this warm Texas day, but yes, you look like if a real life elf decided to go to transcendence company.com and, and say, I'm going to get some blood work checked. I'm going to see if my, my testosterone's low. I'm gonna, I'm gonna load up. I'm gonna take Peptides, some hormone replacement therapy. I'm gonna do what I need to do. You look like, like, like a jacked elf.

That's great, man. And good, good. Shout out to transcendcompany.com check it on out. Go get your blood work done Everybody. It'll do.

1931, Coca Cola had this advertising campaign. They got this illustrator to create a series of advertisements featuring Santa Claus for their winter campaigns. And this illustrator, he's the one that first gave this image of Santa Claus as a jolly man. Jolly old man, plump white beard, rosy cheeks and a red suit. Notice there's a lot of red associated with Christmas and Santa. Well, what's the color of Coca Cola?

Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense.

Red. So Coca Cola, they, they put out this huge marketing campaign and even like growing up and even today you see commercials, Coca Cola and Santa in the, and riding is sleigh with a reindeer across the sky. All these Coca Cola commercials and they have the, the Christmas inspired labels at Christmas time. I had no idea that Coca Cola had anything to do with Christmas. But it's a phenomenal marketing strategy. Phenomenal.

Oh yeah. That would have been like what, the early 1900s or when. Because Coca Cola has been around for quite some time.

Yeah, this advertising campaign was 1931.

Ah, all right, that makes sense. That makes sense.

Is that, were they still putting like cocaine and Coca Cola at the time, didn't they?

He'd be a way skinnier Santa if that was the case, man.

That's true. That's a fact. Well, I guess all that, that was like before Prohibition and all that stuff. They probably slowed down on that if they were to. They're gonna outlaw alcohol. They probably stop putting like heroin in your cough syrup and Coca Cola in your soda. Right. Or cocaine in your soda.

I don't know, man. I, yeah, that, that's that. I mean that, the whole prohibition thing is that. I mean we should talk about that sometime. That'd be fun. That'd be a fun topic for us to dive into. We won't, we won't go into that right now.

Okay, okay. I. Okay. Yeah, I was gonna say something, but we'll go down a rabbit hole. Yeah, we tend to do that.

Keep it coming, man. What do we got? What's, what else for Santa.

So with, with Santa, obviously you mentioned it when we first started the commercial, commercialization of Christmas. Right? Who makes out on Christmas more than anybody? Merchants, retail shops, you know, whoever could advertise and use Christmas as a gimmick for, for themselves, as a marketing tool for themselves. So 100, like every other holiday under the sun, they've been commercialized to, to make money. Right? So that's a fact. But that, that's where we get this big jolly old man. But again, when you think of jolly old Saint Nick, that the whole premise of Santa Claus and all that and this guy coming in the middle of the night to give you presents, it comes from a real guy who was bishop of a church after sitting in year in, in prison for years awaiting his execution because he was a Christian, this guy. St. Nicholas.

Yeah, that's, that's good. Thanks for doing the homework on that, man. I learned some things.

Yes. Yeah, I do my best.

So in conclusion then off of that, what, what's your thoughts? Is, is Christmas pagan? Is it, is it something that we, we should do as, as Christians or what are your thoughts?

It's funny because I, I said to Lucy, she said, I still think Christian Christmas is pagan. I was like, okay, so, so house divided.

A house divided. Come on. Right, right.

Now when it comes to like Santa Claus, right? Wait, we'll take Ezzy around to see the Christmas lights. And he absolutely loves it. And then there's a house right down the street that's got this big Santa Claus and it says ho, ho, ho. And he'll say, ho ho ho. And he has no idea who Santa Claus is. Like that's, that's his first exposure to Santa Claus and he has no idea who Santa is. And he goes to a Christian preschool so they don't talk about Santa Claus. And even Lucy, she never told her kids about Santa Claus. And I don't blame, even with me growing up with, with parents who weren't committed to Christ. And my mother went all out for Christmas. She loved it. She loved to spoil the kids. I remember my mom and dad get into a fight every year because my mother would be spending too much on Christmas and we got spoiled. But I remember what, I don't know what age I was, but I was young. I remember when I realized Santa wasn't real and it was My mom and dad getting up in the middle of the night and putting those presents under the tree. And I remember it was like three years, I, every year I, I just felt this, like, there's this in the pit of my stomach. I just felt icky about it because I'm like, oh man, I got to keep this going because my mother loves this so much. Like, like, I knew I was being lied to, but I got to keep on with this lie now. So it's like, as a parent, I understand the Christmas tradition, but why do you want to, why would you lie to your kids about it? Right? And then is it an awkward conversation at some point in their life? And maybe they, maybe that's why they grow up to be a, a drug addict or a prostitute because they're like, my parents lied to me about Santa Claus. All these people years. Right. I don't know. Some deep rooted issues I think come from Santa Claus.

Yes. Those kids are the ones that, are the, are the adults that still go to Disney today. So. No, I'm sh, I'm, I'm kidding, Roger. I'm kidding.

Roger. I was gonna say one of our best buds loves Disney.

I know, I know. I, I just wanted to give Roger some love today in it.

You got a funny way of showing love.

Well, so do you, bro. So do you.

I do, I do. I mentioned that last week. Yeah, I do. I do. So is Christmas pagan? The, the world has turned everything just as Christians hijacked it to make it a, a Christian thing and turn people towards Christ. Some, some of these, maybe pagan practices or the festivals in the early 4th century, but the, the world is always trying to hijack what, what, what's good. Right? The enemy's always trying to hijack what, what God does, but God always finds a way to turn it back for his good. So I, I, I am 100 an advocate of Christmas. I love Christmas trees. I love Christmas lights, even if they had no association with Jesus. I just think they look cool. They look pretty, right? I, I like looking at them. I love having the tree up. Like when it's, it's late. All the lights in the house are off, but the Christmas tree is up. You're watching a movie or something. I just love it. And it's not worshiping. It's like, why would you put a picture up? Because you like the picture. You like the way it looks in the house. I like the way the Christmas tree looks. I'm not worshiping it, but I think all parents should do a good job of not spoiling your kids, obviously, be generous to them, but instill in them the, the values to not just receive the gift, but that they're blessed. If you live in this country, even as a child, you probably have parents that could help you bless somebody else, get a gift for a classmate, Just instill that spirit of giving this time of year. So I think it's a great holiday. Obviously, the purpose, why we celebrate it is unbelievable. The birth of our Savior. So it, in my mind, is Christmas a pagan holiday?

No, I would agree, I would agree, man. Is it, is it under attack by, you know, modern secularism? Sure, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, I haven't, I haven't really ran into this. Of course, I don't really go into stores a whole lot anymore, but I remember maybe it was a few years ago when it was like, everybody, it was a big to do about Happy Holidays versus Merry Christmas, right? It's like, it, it's like, oh, what do we say? We don't want to offend people. It's like, nah, I want to offend as many people as I can. I'm gonna tell them Merry freaking Christmas. Right? Maybe leave out the freaking. But, but that's.

Well, I, I like to tell. I, I don't mean to cut you off, but I like to tell people that holiday is actually a Christian word. It comes from holy day. And it was in back. I, I forget the year or the century, but when Western civilization, they were celebrating Christmas on December 25th in the east, they were celebrating on January 6th. And that's when the 12 days of Christmas came about. It was those 12 days between the 25th and the 6th of January. And there was a, A, A push to try to unify that whole time as, as the 12 holy days celebrating Christ's birth. Right? So when you say Happy holidays, you're literally being as Christian as saying Merry Christmas.

I love it. I love it. I did not know that, but that makes complete sense. So, yeah, it's great. We got one on them.

Ha. I'm like, you pagan, you, you non believer. You don't realize that you're telling me to have a happy Christian holy day.

That's great. That's good, man. Yeah. I'm in complete agreement with you. I don't, I do not think it's, it's a pagan holiday. But back to it, just coming down to the real reason for it and that if you're leading your household appropriately, you should have those conversations. Like, even if you, you have a young kiddo and it's like, fun to bring out presents and, you know, let them wake up. I don't ever remember any. Any times where I. I remember one year, I guess when I woke up and my dad had stuff set out for us. My parents made the mistake of once Santa was like, we know that that's not real thing. They would set presents out beforehand and that's when, man, I would sneak in there, I'd rip them things open, I'd peek. I remember this one year. I know my mom listens to this, but I remember this one year when I like peaked at every single present and she was like, you ruined Christmas. And it was. It was. I felt. I felt terrible. I felt terrible. But I remember, yeah, I would. I was probably like 5 or 6 years old at that time. But if you're. If you're listening, I never peaked at.

A present because I always wanted to be surprised. Yeah. Yeah. I never did. I. And out of all my. I never met another kid that didn't peak. So it just tells you even though I was a little. Little heathen, I still had some morals about me.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's good, man. That's good. Good. Good job on that because I don't know, I don't think Ellie would actually either because she would just. She would never want to do anything that would potentially get us upset at her, which is great.

Yeah. I actually don't think Ellie is a real human being. I think she might be an angel. So she's kind of the exception to the.

The rule.

And I'm not just saying that I don't favor Ellie because I know Ellie and obviously Riley's family is like family to me. But yeah, I've seen over the years she is as perfect a little girl as you could be. And I gotta believe it. It's because 100. Because of you, Riley, you and Ash.

Yeah, well, yeah, definitely not 100%, but we. Yes, that. Thank you for that. But no question, God's hand is all over her life. So thank you for that.

But if you had a daughter that wasn't like Ellie, I wonder if you guys would have adopted. You would have been like, oh, my gosh. I don't know. Like, it was sometimes like the. Go ahead, go ahead.

I was my. That was almost part of my hind. Like prevented me from wanting to. I was like, I don't know. First off, I don't know if I could love a child as. As you know. I don't know if I want to share this. Right. Which obviously is a fallacy for Kids. For parents that have more than one kid, you know that you love your kids. Some of you probably have favorites. You would never admit it, but that was it. But also I was like, she's, she's so good. I like, there's no chance that we could get two of these. I was like, but Titus is an incredible little man right now. So. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're, we're, we're very blessed, very blessed in this house.

So one of my buddies up in New Jersey, he's got nine siblings, right? And one of his brother, they are all raised in the church, but one of his brothers is gay. He's like, man, when you look at the, the Oz, the statistics, one of us was going to be gay. I think that, I think it's a little different based on the way you're raised and what you're exposed to, to that sort of thing.

But yeah, yeah, 100%. All right. Well, I, I had mentioned early in the show that you would maybe give your, your top five top 10 Christmas songs.

Well, I was thinking maybe we could each do five. But you know, you sent a text over saying, I don't think I know five Christmas songs. Which. Yeah, tell, Write in the chat right now. Please put in the chat if you know five. If you could list five Christmas songs off the top of your head. Just write yes in the chat right now. If it's a no and I guarantee you I don't think there's going to be any no's. Riley, I think everybody walking planet Earth right now can name five Christmas songs.

It's, it's more than you think. Like I, I, I could if I thought about it certainly. Like if I can count Rudolph the Red Nose Reindeer, right?

It counts.

Yeah, there you go. When you threw at me, man, like give your, your favorite top five or whatever. I was like, I've bro. I don't, I would have struggled listing five and I guess those could be my favorite. I do love. I will say this right now. Forest Frank, if there's not any, anybody that listens to Forest Frank is incredible artist. He's really been kind of on the rise over the last few months. Christian artist and he's got a Christmas album. I put him on some of my, my, my social. If you saw the, some posts that I've had of Titus of late, it's. He's got a really catchy song called. I think it's called the Present and it's like I was gonna sing it, but I'm not gonna sing it because it's you guys. All of a sudden, justice, we start.

A live show, all of a sudden, you stop singing on these podcasts.

It's. It's hard when I'm live, man. If it's. I feel like there's more. More people listening, I. You know, I clam up on those situations.

So if you guys go back from a few months prior to when we started going live, every episode I would say something, and he. It would just trigger something in Riley's brain to start belting out probably the most secular song ever written, and he would start singing it, and it's just. I don't know if it's in his heart, in his head, how often he listens to these songs, but how many times, if.

You know, how many times? I've held my tongue, even in this episode, I've. I've thought of, like, three songs that I wanted to sing. Like, Everything is a Holiday, just another really bad language holiday. Did you know that song?

No. Who's that? Sounds like somebody I should know.

Who's that? You're asking me who that is? A black guy. That's all I know. That's all I know.

Oh, you would know it. I tell you what, that just gave me a thought of another Christmas song that I really like. Run dmc, Christmas and Hollis. You know that one?

All right. No, bro.

No, I know.

Maybe I've heard it. Okay. Sing it.

Yeah, here we go. It's more of a rap. Here, let me.

Let me give you a beat.

Royce. If we play. If you pull up Christmas and Hollis by Run DMC and literally play the first three seconds of it. Well, is that copyright infringement? Let us know, Royce. Because if you hear the first three seconds of it, you'll know it.

Royce fell asleep 30 minutes ago, bro. During. He's like, explo.

He's like, they got no clips today. I'm going out. I'll be back when they're done. So, anyway, so let's. Let's get to this list. Did you create any list, or are we just going off of mine?

Going off of yours, man. I. I might have some thoughts after you give yours. No, here's Roy. Royce. Royce, Share your screen, bro. Come on, let's do it. All right, here we go.

Oh, I. I think. Yeah, I think it. The record scratches, and then it gets into actual song. That's like the.

That was your favorite, bro.

No, that's like the preamble. Just fast forward a little. Yeah, now the record scratches. Let's go a little forward. Yeah, yeah. That's it? You don't know that one?

No, bro, no.

Oh, it's Christmas time in Hollis, Queens. Mom's cooking chicken and collard beans. Collard greens. Collard greens.

Jeez, you've been living in Texas too long, man.

Yeah, I know. I'm married to a black woman who cooks them regularly. Good Lord. My street car just got taken from me.

All right, well, you're gonna start at five, and then bring us down to your top five.

I'll start at five, and I hope you know these. These are classics, all right?

And I want to. I want to hear. I want to see everybody else's thoughts on this. Or if you have a top five, put it in the chat for us.

Or just. Just your number one. If you have a number one, go to Christmas carol that you love. It just sparks up nostalgia of past Christmases and family time and gift giving and sitting by the fireplace going through the stocking and all that. Whatever your number one Christmas song is, throw it in the chat right now. But for. For my number five, wonderful Christmas time by Paul McCartney. Are you familiar with it?

Now give me. Give me a verse or something.

Wonderful Christmas, Having a wonderful Christmas time.

I like that song. Yeah, I know.

Okay.

I know that one. It's good.

You're the singer. Well, you like to sing. I don't know if I can call you the singer, but I'm definitely not the singer. But I'll do this for you. All right, so that's my number five. Number four, Mariah Carey. All I want for Christmas is you. When I hear the beginning of that one. Oh, that. That's a classic. That's a classic. You know that one, right?

I know that one. Yeah. You don't have to sing that one.

Okay. I definitely can't sing, like. Okay, now number three, I. This is my favorite Christmas song that's on, like, a Christian album, like a worship song. It's the Christmas worship medley by Israel and New Breed. And it's the one. He's got a couple different ones, was the one from a timeless Christmas album. Album. It's great. It's like a compilation of different songs. It's good. You play that thing. It's like 11 minutes long. Yeah. You'll be in tears by the end of it. Just worshiping the Lord. Yeah.

All right.

All right. That's a good one.

Okay.

All right. Number two, I don't want you nor any of our listeners or viewers to judge me on this one, but I'm the one that. Yeah, I'm going With Chris Brown this Christmas.

What? Chris Brown has a Christmas song?

Yes. Yes. Royce. Royce, pull it up. Royce. It's. And this is a young Chris Brown. This is before he got corrupted by the P. Diddies of the. The music industry, I believe. This is when he still has some wholesome music, you know, before he got, you know, corrupted.

Pete diddled.

Yeah. Royce, let her rip. It picks up. It picks up. What a voice that young Chris Brown had.

Yeah. What's he doing nowadays, man?

I don't know.

All right, so do you know.

Know that one? And then it picks up, and then there's a lot of versions of this Christmas, but.

Yeah, this Christmas. Yeah, I know, I know. I know that.

Shake a hand. Yep, yep, yep. And then my number one. I mentioned this last week, so if you listen, last week, spoiler alert. The Drifters, White Christmas, man, that. It's not White Christmas, man. It's White Christmas. White Christmas. But, yeah, that. That's. That's a classic. I remember riding around with my father, so he was a. A captain at the time, the North Police Department. He had like a. A marked car that he drove. Brought it home every day. I remember driving around in that thing, and he would play CBS fm, which was the oldie station in New York City. And Christmas time, man, that was like. They played that, like, every third song. The Drifters, White Christmas. So shout out to CBS fm. My dad for us singing that thing together. Dreaming of a white Christmas.

I just think of Christmas vacation when I hear that beat.

Is that in there?

You know, I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure that's Christmas vacation.

It's gotta be seen that in years here, bro.

We watch. We watch that every Christmas. Every Christmas, actually. I'm curious. You have any, like. And even in the chat. Let us know and then we'll wrap this show on up. But favorite Christmas movie. You got a favorite Christmas movie, Kristen?

I don't know. I know Graham and Todd were debating, I. I think if Die Hard was a Christmas movie or not, but Christmas movie. I don't know what movie. You're gonna judge me for this? Gosh, it's a black movie. Gosh. It was a black movie with, you know, all the regulars that are black movies.

Is it Tyler Perry Medina?

No, no, it's not a Tyler Perry. It's not a Medea. Morris Chestnuts in there. And it's like the.

I don't know who that is.

It's like three guys and three girls and how their lives come together, all this stuff. But they had A movie. And then a couple years later, they did like a Christmas movie together. I like. I like that one. Like, Morris Chestnut, I think he died. He was like that. A professional athlete in the first movie. He died of cancer or something. It was a real tear jerker. But yeah, that's what. Man, I can't think of that. The name of that movie. My guess is not many people would know that. Throw it in the chat, but if.

You don't even know. I don't even know who Morris Chestnut is, bro.

What? Have you ever watched a black movie in your life?

I don't know if you know this, but I grew up in South Dakota. We had like, a black. Black guy.

In the whole state, pretty much in town. The whole state.

Yeah. Definitely wasn't one in our town, man.

There.

No.

Yeah. I think I was destined to marry a black woman and have black kids because all this stuff, like black movies, stuff like that. Well, I played basketball and I. I traveled and stuff like middle school, early high school. So I was around black people a lot. So I. But it wasn't until I got that cadaver bone when my spine was used that actually.

Yeah, that's hilarious. That's hilarious. All right, we'll wrap this thing on up, guys. This is. This is fun. We got to learn a little bit more about Christmas. Is it pagan? Neither of us think so. Obviously, if you're. If your house is in order and you're doing it appropriately, is it fun to see Christmas trees to Christmas lights? Absolutely. But we're not worshiping them. They are not our idols. Christ Jesus is the one and only true person that we should be worshiping. And just make that clear in your household. And I think you're. You're in the clear if that's the case. Yes. You got that black toy, that black person twang right there, too.

That's right.

That's right. Yep. Oh, man. Fun. Well, we. We will be back next week. 27th next week. We'll.

We'll.

We'll talk about all sorts of fun things that happened over Christmas. The Christmas break. I'm sure some of you guys are off for a few days. Enjoy the time with the family and just remember really truly what this season is about. And I don't know how cold it's going to get up here in Minnesota, but, man, it's been gnarly. We're getting some snow, though. We're getting some snow here, and it. It does feel like the Christmas season. Is that. Is that the case in. In Texas or.

No, no, we had a couple cold days, but it's warm. I am sweating in this sweater right now. Well, last week, last week somebody put in the chat. They, I don't know if you saw somebody asked, is there a heater going? Because the heat was running in my house. I turned off the heat upstairs but the downstairs heat kicked on. You can still hear it in the mic. So yeah, but no, no need for, for heat. That's funny. Yeah, but yeah, everybody enjoy your Christmas. Enjoy time with your family and just if you can get those little jee Jesus stories in there and just instill the, the, the goodness and wholesomeness of Christ and who he is and why we actually celebrate this day, definitely do it.

Yes, absolutely. That all being said, we will see you guys all next week. Have a merry, merry Christmas. See you guys.