From PhD Rejection to Bestselling Ghostwriter: How Cindy Childress Built a Book Empire by Owning ...

We are live. Welcome to Sacred Business Stories. This is our weekly Substack Live where we have an honest conversation about what it looks like to build a business that aligns with your deepest truth. And today we are honored to be joined by Cindy Childress, who I'll let her share more about herself and her story, but she is the experts ghostwriter and leads the A-List Author Studio, um, where experts write and launch bestselling books and make money and impact. And this is a conversation we've been really excited to have because books has been something that has been on our minds lately. And I know it's something that, yeah, something that many people in our audience are interested in too. So really happy to have you here with us, Cindy.

Thank you. I'm delighted to be here.

Yes, I'm very excited for this conversation. And I always like to begin this conversation just sharing with the people here the why we created Secret Business Stories and really it is to inspire people with possibilities. So we invite people that inspire us and we invite people that have inspiring business that, you know, um, is a combination of who they are, you know, and, uh, we just want to allow or give permission to people to feel that, that, oh, I can have something, uh, for me too. And Sacred Business is really a business that is a combination of your victories, your certifications, your challenges. And it's a way that you pack everything and you transform that into a way that you serve the world. And that brings you fulfillment and supports the lifestyle that you want to lead. So thanks for being here, Cindy.

Thank you. I love your sacred business flow.

Yeah. Well, we love to just kind of open these conversations, well, in a pretty open-ended way. One of the things that we love to hear from folks is kind of how they got to where they are today. So it's very often that people speak in interviews and things like this from the position of the moment they're in, but then people that are kind of looking at how to create something maybe similar to what you have today, they can't quite see the puzzle pieces of how to put this together. And so I'm just curious about you and your journey, if you could just kind of, hey, tell us where you are and what your business is today, but just kind of how you found your way to this point today.

Absolutely. Well, I'm unusual as a ghostwriter not to have any prior experience working in the book publishing industry. So normally a ghostwriter starts out as an editor, at a traditional book publisher. But for myself, I have a PhD in English and a creative writing background, and I lived overseas with my husband for 7 years after I finished my PhD, and that was for his job in oil and gas. And that meant when we came back to America, I had a 7-year work gap. And even in 2014, this meant that everywhere that I submitted a resume, I would automatically be put in the no pile just because of that 7-year work gap. It was just, they didn't, you know, so I never even got an interview and I took my PhD off my applications. I thought I just sound too brainy. They think I'm gonna be a know-it-all. I'll just say I have a master's. That didn't work. So I stripped it back to the bachelor's. That didn't work. And I was like, okay, those are all the fixes I can think of. So I was also, um, a marathon runner and I've lost 80 pounds and kept it off for over 20 years now. So I said, maybe I'm— I shouldn't even be doing writing things. Maybe health and fitness is my calling. So I became a certified personal trainer and I was hired at a gym that soon realized they had more than just a great trainer. I had some of the highest conversions in the company, and this led me to create a training manual for the personal trainers on sales. And I ended up building an in-house phone sales team and hired and trained everyone in that department. And we conversions of 85% for inbound warm leads, and that held steady for 2 years. So I really gained my confidence in that position. And also there wasn't a next place for me to go, and I felt like there was so much more that I had to do and offer and give. So I felt stifled, and I was crying one night complaining to my husband about all this, and he said to me, Why don't you start a business? And I said, do you mean like a Subway franchise? And he said, no, a writing business. So that very night I bought my first domain. I bought an email, a Google Suite account, and contacted a friend of ours who was a lawyer to ask how to make it legit. And boom, by that April, um, I was ghostwriting. And by the end of 2017, which was the first year of my business, I had completed 3 books, and 2 of them were Amazon bestsellers. And what I'll say about that is I was very insecure before I had any books, and people would ask me, what have you worked on? And I didn't have a finished product. But even when I only had 2 bestsellers, I could give them the link to 2 books that were real and available, and they would— that was enough for people to go, okay, yeah, you know what you're doing. You, you, you have follow-through. Um, because they were always more interested in what I thought about their project than looking at actually what I had done before. Which was very surprising to me. I think a lot of people create mistakes that aren't real, thinking that they must have this giant portfolio. Like, in my experience, it's not looked at. They just like to know that you have your stuff, you know what you're talking about.

I love that. And I really love what you said about like, oh, changing from a PhD to master's and did all the fakes. And like, I feel that we all do that, that we try to fit in a box. So hard and like, then it doesn't work at all. And it's just life telling you like, hey, this is just not for you. Go figure it out like another way. And I'm glad that your husband was like, yay, you know, create something, something different. How was your first client? Like, you know, when you decided to like, oh yeah, I'm going to do this. And like, how was that communication? And because you didn't have all the experience, right? So how, how was that connection?

Yeah, so she was a business consultant with Fortune 500 companies out of Chicago, and I was in Houston. And that means there was— we never physically met up. So everything had to be done online. And I was new to using Zoom, and this was Zoom in 2017. So you could record calls. And my idea was I had the interview questions for the author interview written in advance, and we had planned what her chapters would be about. And the first interview went great. I had it recorded, so I wasn't typing. I was just asking her questions, asking follow-up questions. Then I had the recording that I went back to, to take notes from. Um, this was even before Rev.com was a thing. And then I got the first chapter done and it was okay. So then we had the next interview for the second chapter and I had the questions compared. Well, I don't know what went wrong, but that was not recorded. When I thought it was, so I wasn't taking notes, and then I didn't have a recording, and then I didn't realize this in a timely manner, and it was— so then I tried to just, you know, cobble it together from memory, and I sent it to her, and she was like, "This is horrible," and I said, "Yes, it is," and then we redid the interview, and I learned a lot of valuable things, from that experience because when we mess up, the people that we're serving just want us to fix it. They don't want us to Band-Aid over it and pretend like we didn't make a mistake. We earn more of their respect and their confidence when we just come back and say, "I don't know what happened, but we need to redo this interview," because they care more about getting it right than having to do it again. So that was very humbling, but We moved through it, and I didn't let it happen again. And that's why now, while I'm doing the interview, I'm always taking notes also, in addition to looking for the red light that says record like a million times. But I'm also doing that so that if something— if we don't get a good recording for whatever reason, I have something to go from, even if I do need to go back and ask follow-up questions.

Yeah.

I love—

I just love what you shared there about making it right, because in a way, you're speaking to— some of our clients that have been kind of in the early phase of their process, this is almost like what you just described is almost like their worst nightmare, right? And it's like, it's like this feeling of not being prepared, not getting it right. And, and, you know, this is one of the, one of the things I always say to them is like, as long as you're like, your, your heart of service is kind of like in the right place. And of course there's a baseline preparation that you need to come with, but assuming that's in place and there is a real expertise there, it's like you can't really mess it up as long as you do exactly what you said, which is you own it and just acknowledge like, hey, like if it's, if it's, you know, if it needs to take an extra 2 calls to make, to make up what happened, you just, you just do it. Right. And if you approach it this way, there's, um, yeah, there's nothing too much to fear. So I just loved kind of hearing, um, yeah, kind of hearing that in a way that I, I feel will speak to people who are kind of stuck in, in that sort of fear. So yeah, thank you for sharing that.

I've actually never told anyone that before. No one but me and the client and now everyone watching this interview.

Yeah, that's awesome. And I feel that it's so empowering because like we fear the feeling. Go through that situation that the woman like, oh, this is awful. And you're like, oh, it is. Then you felt that. So then you're kind of like free to go and try and make mistakes and like, you know, and raise your hand and like, yeah, let's fix this together and I can do it better. So that, and And just the fact that people avoid feeling that feeling that you felt, they don't take action at all. And that's what block us, right? So it's great that you had that like right off the bat and like, like I'm ready for anything.

Yeah. Sometimes I feel that could be a gift just like having that right off the bat. Cause then it's just like, well, we already got that out of the way. So let's go. But I think that's a great transition. Like one of the things that we do like to talk about with our audience is that It's like perfectly normal for like this fear and resistance to come up, especially when you're starting something new that you feel is so close to your heart and the desire for the meaningful work you want to do. And so, um, you just kind of demonstrated how you went through that process, but I'm curious now, like, um, where, from where you are in your business today, like what are some areas where kind of fear or resistance might rear its head for you? And, um, how do you, how do you work with that to kind of keep yourself moving forward with your, with your goals?

Yeah, well, it happened yesterday, actually. I'm helping a client with their book launch. And so I was writing the swipe copy for their book ambassadors, and these are famous people, like, um, and I know who these people are. I have their books on my bookshelf. And then thinking that their copywriter team is going to take these emails and personalize them in some way and send them out to their massive lists. Was very humbling to me. And it also— I spent 2 hours yesterday. This is rare for me. And I didn't accomplish anything because every idea I had for a hook, I would be like, oh no, no, it's not good enough. It's not going to be, you know, whereas like, that's not normally how I operate. I'm normally like, well, let's just see where this goes and I'll think of something better. And, you know, um, And I realized I was being too— I call it precious. I learned that from one of my early creative writing teachers. When you expect what you're doing to be perfect and you become precious about it, because, um, we learn in copywriting, and it's even true with books, like no one paragraph is going to be the be-all and end-all of this entire project. You just need something. Because if you don't have something on paper, then you don't have anything to work with, to get feedback on, to improve. So I just owned up to the client, hey, I'm going to get this back to you a day later than I thought I would, and the reason is I'm being too precious about it. So I'm going to get over myself tomorrow. And yay, it's today and I'm over myself.

That's a great strategy, like just being honest. Sometimes it'd be like, yeah, like, do I need to give an excuse? Do I need to say, you know, like, no, just like, open your heart and like, I'm, I'm being honest and I need to give you that one day later.

I found this is so true, particularly with the ghostwriting, because the level of vulnerability that I demand from my clients in order to do a great job for them, I have to give it to them if I want to have it back.

Yes, it's, it's about creating a safe space, right? You can't be the perfect if you don't want your clients to be perfect, right? Yeah, that's beautiful.

Um, one of the other questions I'd love to ask you about Cindy, and this would be interesting, kind of connected to your perspective as, as a writer, kind of behind the scenes with your clients. Um, I feel like many of our audience, they struggle with this idea of like how to make meaningful, authentic connection online. Um, and especially when they're looking to share this, this new message for themselves. And so How do you approach connection and what advice might you give to someone who's trying to share what they have to offer more consistently?

Absolutely. A lot of times when you're a beginner or even when you start writing something, even if you're not a beginner, we tend to want to begin by proving ourselves and showing how much we know. And when we do that, we're just like, we're pumping information out, but we're not providing a context for someone to engage with it emotionally or imagine how it applies to them. Them. So I highly encourage you to take whatever knowledge chunk that you want to share, which is perfectly valid, and then think, how do I package this into a story? So your story is the vehicle for the point that you want to make. And it can be— obviously it's easy if you're solving a problem for other people that you have solved for yourself because you have your story of how you did it. But even if you don't have that, just, um, And even if you haven't had clients yet, well, there's a reason that, you know, you're great at this. You've prob— and this was the business coach that I worked with on that first book. She was consulting with these high-level CEOs and executive teams, but she had never one-on-one coached an entrepreneur. But I challenged her on that. And informally, she'd had all kinds of conversations with these entrepreneurs. And I said, okay, We're gonna be in, um, integrity. We're not gonna call them clients. They weren't paying you. It wasn't that relationship. But just say, I helped a person with this kind of business with this kind of problem. And let's tell that story the way that it happened. And by doing that, she didn't feel fake because she wasn't claiming clients that she hadn't actually had, but she was claiming the experience that she had and the way that— and then she threw the vehicle of the story of this person. Even if you had a different kind of business or a different problem, you could imagine what it would be like to work with her to find a solution.

And just for curiosity, like when people come to you, like what is the biggest reason of, uh, your clients of desiring to write a book? Like, is it to share their knowledge? Is it to have their story? Is it to build legacy? Like, what is the biggest motivation?

They usually start with the knowledge. There's this information they want to share with people that they know who need it because they can— the existing conversations about this topic, like nobody is saying it the way they do, and they have a specific take on their field of expertise. And then when we dig in though, it's really about helping the people because they just know that they're, you know, people are making something harder than it is, or they're struggling where they don't have to be. And there's this solution that's just in the client's head, and we just have to find the easiest way to get it to the people who need it. And sometimes that vehicle is a book. And in that case, it's my job to help them, you know, get out of the, "I am an expert, so I shall tell you how it is," because like nobody really wants to read that, especially in self-help, which is my that's my area of expertise. But what we do want is someone that we feel understands us, that cares about us, who can give us some practical solutions that actually make sense, tools that we can apply right away and make a difference, at least to move the needle, if not to just completely go from one thing all the way to another. You know, if I get one thing from a book and I do one thing from it and it helps me, I'm like, That was wonderful, super valuable. So also it's remembering we don't have to solve all the problems, we just need to pick one and solve it really, really well.

Yeah, it's all about simplicity.

Yes, less is more.

Yes. Yeah.

And the, um, the other thing I wanted to ask you, Sunil, and we could just do the little teaser because we're fortunate enough that you're kind of coming back to do an actual workshop with us for our Sacred Business Network on, I believe it's September 25th, um, and we're going to be going really deep into this idea of writing your first book, but as we've shared with you, this is something that's on our minds, so I'm sure it's on the minds of many others who might be listening live or on the recap. Like, what is your quick answer for how for someone to know, like, when the right time is to write a book, you know, like in their journey?

Yeah, and that's super interesting because that first client that I mentioned, she hadn't been a business coach, but she had been giving business coach type advice as a consultant. And informally. So you don't always have to have worked with a lot of people, but what you do need is to find that you're saying the same thing over and over again. And it's like, it would be great if I could just show people where it is in a book. And also when you're talking on your topic, people may be asking you if you've written a book about this, or they may be telling you, you really ought to write a book about this. And When you're hearing that too, that tells you other people are capturing the fact that you have something unique to say. You have a different perspective. You're landing differently than other people on this topic, and that's why they think you have something book-worthy. So that can be another major sign. And then you also need to want to. If you just think it would be a good idea and it would make sense because your business coach told you or a competitor has a book, so you think you also need a book, those are not great. Those are reasons to explore it, but they're not reasons to do it. Like, a book is not the easiest way to get your information down. It's not fast, um, but it is something that can continue working for you for years down the road. So I would make sure this is a topic that you're so passionate about that the idea of going all in on it for 2 or 3 years, both for the writing and for the marketing and really getting the message out there, If that feels expansive, that's a huge sign this is a worthy endeavor. But if that sounds like, oh, I'll be split from these other things I want to do, or I don't know, then like maybe you haven't landed on your topic, or maybe this isn't a book. Maybe it's an epic blog post. Maybe it's a podcast. You know, everything isn't a book. Um, and that's okay too. Mm-hmm.

I love what you share about, uh, if you have, if you catch yourself like repeating the same thing over and over and over. Because what we see sometimes is, um, I don't know if it's a challenge of the mind, but like, we think we need to be always innovating, right? And in this world of like business is actually like, once you have an idea, once you have like this one thing, you just need to keep like repeating that over and over and over and kind of like adding, and it will be like becoming more rich as you evolve, but it's the one thing that you repeat. Um, and it's interesting to think about that, about a book. Like I never really thought about it.

Yeah, people think with the book they need to do something totally different they haven't done before.

Yes.

Honestly, that's a terrible idea because like whatever it is that you're talking about now that you're known for, that's what people are gonna expect and want you to be going deeper in and collecting all your thoughts in one place in this book. If you go off on a wild card on some other thing you've been thinking about that no one's heard you talk about before, and then suddenly there's a book, your audience at the very least is going to feel confused because they thought they knew you and now they don't feel like they do. That's not a good look. But I mean, you can certainly change, but we just need to bring the audience with us as our interests are shifting. That needs to happen inside and also outwardly.

Makes sense.

Mm-hmm. I'm curious, kind of, this is kind of backtracking a little bit, but kind of going back to your journey and how you made your way to doing your current business. And I feel you're— from what I know of you, your business has evolved quite a bit as well because you started, and I know you still do the high-end ghostwriting, but you started purely doing ghostwriting and now you work, I believe, more kind of on the, on the coaching side and helping people kind of bring it to life in other ways as well. And so I'm just curious about Yeah. What part of your, like, when did you kind of arrive where you're like, yeah, this is my calling, or this is the thing that I'm kind of meant to doing, or like, has that been an evolving process? Do you feel you've arrived? Like, I would love to hear where you are kind of in your, in your own way of relating to your business.

Well, I think we're always in the process of arriving. So I'm here where I am today. I would say the evolution from ghostwriting to doing the group programs happened because I was in a, I was in a like business coaching group and we were trying to figure out what our thing was. So we were really looking for our quote unquote IP. And as I was documenting my processes to try to see what is it that I'm doing that's different from other people, um, I realized I had enough material to create a course and teach other people either how to be a ghostwriter and how to do what I do, or to write their own book. And then I made a choice because I just, I had a small agency at one time, so I had other ghostwriters working with me and I didn't love that nearly as much as I loved working with my clients, the authors. So I decided if I want to work with more of those people, then I should have, um, an author-facing program where I teach this. So that became Crank Out Your Book in 8 Weeks, which I began in, um, 2020, which was happening anyway. And then the pandemic made it a little easier to first launch an online program. So that was fortuitous for me in that way, at least. But yeah, and then I really loved it and people reacted positively. And this morning, just before I got on this call, I led the group call for the A-list authors and it was just so uplifting to have all of them there. And some have been working with me for a few years now. They're on their second book and they're giving the same feedback that I would, or sometimes things that I've said to them before that I didn't even think of then, that is like, that's their expertise that they're bringing to the table. And it's just really beautiful to see.

Beautiful. Well, I know, I know we're almost on time here, but I want to make sure, hey, if anyone's listening and if you're joining late, Cindy will be joining us for a workshop on knowing when it's time for your first book in in September. But, but also I would love to just give you the opportunity just to share kind of if someone is hearing anything that's piquing their curiosity about how to work with you. Um, I know you're here on Substack, but I think you're kind of new on the Substack world. So where are the best ways for people to connect with your work or any resources that might be useful for them to check out?

Absolutely. So you can go to my website, cindychildress.com/quiz, and take my Discover Your Number One Bestselling Author Personality Quiz. This is a great way to— because a lot of times we think we have to write a book one way, the way that we've seen this one famous author do it, and that may or may not suit your personality or your style of sharing information or why you would be doing it in the first place. So this quiz helps you break that down. And on my website, you'll also find how to contact me. I'm very active on Facebook at Cindy Childress, PhD. I'm also on Substack, so you can come hang out with me there too. And yeah, I would love to hear more about what you're working on and what help you might need.

Awesome. Yeah. So we will, we always send out a recap of these conversations afterwards. We'll, I'll make sure that I have the link to that quiz and everything there. So it makes it really easy for people to connect with you. And, and we'll also share that with you after the fact as well, in case you'd like to share it with anyone. But, Yeah, I really appreciate you being here with us. Really looking forward to the more extended, longer conversation next month. And, um, yeah, really grateful for you to having this conversation with us.

Yes.

It was really fun. Thanks for connecting with us.

Thank you. And everybody watching, if there's something you really hope I'll talk about in that talk next month, um, put it in the comments here or send it to me and I'll make sure to get it in the talk.

Yes.

And we'll, we'll make sure we, we make that ask of our community as well. So thank you for that mention. And, um, Yeah, we will see you soon. Thank you so much, Cindy.

Thank you, Cindy.

Bye.

Take care. Bye.