Nothing in Life is Wasted | Eva Chen on Second Callings | In Full Light 003

Welcome to In Full Light. This is our Substack live series where we celebrate heart-led practitioners inside our community who are really stepping into their power and sharing their gifts. So sorry for the rocky start where it looks like, uh, Substack's having a little bit of technical issue, but I am excited because today we are joined by Eva Chen, and she is the founder of Sacred Callings. And this is a coaching practice helping midlife professionals see the childhood survival patterns that have been running their career decisions. And to do the work or to build the work that fits who they are becoming and who they are now. So welcome, Eva. Thank you for being here with us. And yeah, I just wanted to turn it over to you to kind of tell us who you are, what you do. And I think the most important question we're curious about is what is the deeper calling behind your work that you're choosing to step into?

Yeah, definitely. Well, Second Callings is really about people that, um, in my own career and my life, um, I just found myself kind of going on autopilot with my career. Um, but I was always fascinated with people. I mean, there's, we are once in a lifetime cosmic event. There's nobody like you. I've been fixated about, um, finding my calling and my purpose. Ever since, you know, my father passed away and it was just this urgency. But what was happening was this, something was, it was like a deeper subconscious thing was always getting me to follow this success path and the safe route. It was like my body and my mind just took over, um, with all the conditioning that we have. So, um, my life's work is really to help people connect the dots with their life, to kind of discover, I call it their, like, their, what they would, like, relive their childhood again as an adult to discover play, because play is like fulfillment. And it's not really necessarily, like, an activity, but it's your essence and your natural born intelligence. And I cover all kinds of things in terms of the context of your life, but then I use that to see who you are and connect that to what the world needs. And so that's the strategy part. So the first part is more about your energy. And that's how I've used my business experience that I have had started out with. And then the last 20 years have been really, studying a lot of just human development, you know, how we develop as humans, what gets in the way, um, and how to stop this self-sabotage and really heal. So it's, um, yeah, it's, it's been a really sacred journey. Um, and I've had a lot of ups and downs, but I feel like this is like the culmination of my life's work. Work. And that's why I'm super excited to be here and be part of this Sacred Growth Club, because I feel like our life is— our business is a sacred— our sacred business is our sacred life. And it's our own journey. And especially now with everything in chaos, there's no better time. So I'm super excited about now.

Yeah, thank you, Eva. I'm super excited about now too. And I think there's no better time than now to go into your second calling. Uh, and I love the way you define like going back into your childhood and almost like removing the conditioning, but connecting with the playfulness and operating from that space right now. Can you share a little more like how you came to, in your own experience, like How was that transformation for you? Like the realization and the embodied work that you do right now?

That's a great question. Um, you know, people think of like, I was obsessed with the word flow for a long time. Like I got to figure out my flow and it was just very heady. Um, and for me, for play, I, um, I'm a Gen Xer. I've been, I focus on Gen Xers because, um, we had a little bit more of a difficult childhood with. Parents in the Depression and things, and I never really got to play. So it was like performance, piano, this and that. It was, I was an immigrant, came here. It was, you know, a lot of like different cultural norms of being here and then my Asian roots. And so I didn't, I was lost. What came, how it came to me was in my darkest days, I was like, depressed, um, just with my— the success route. I was officially the loser, um, not to say I'm a loser, but I was a black sheep of the family because I, I had a hard time following the rules of my family. And, um, and then I just found myself like loving to make things from nothing, like whether it was cooking, like every kind of business I've had, I, I have to create something new from scratch and something that really nourishes people. So that was how I played, was when I was sad. And that's how I discovered it as an adult, because I, I couldn't— I didn't know how to do that as an adult. So I just naturally found myself, um, feeling fulfilled when I make something. And so there's, you know, I've, I've been And I, and then I fell upon like neuroscientists and doctors and researchers that have been studying, um, play, but play is basically how our brain, um, like learns. And so each one of us does it in a different way. And, um, it just, it helped me to study all these things like natural intelligence and play because then I can name it for people because I think we, when we feel it like an essence or flow, it just, It's a momentary thing and we don't know, we don't put a name or like name it. And so it kind of like goes in one ear and out the other. So I, um, I, I help my clients. I mean, I see it, but I help them see that because it's, it's hard to see yourself. It's like seeing the forest for the trees when you're inside of it. And, um, I, I was always kind of an outsider observing in, so I I just was able to see things, um, um, and, and patterns in my clients. You know, when I did branding, um, I, I, I would see that like almost that child version, um, resisting, you know, being the perfectionist, um, not like trying to do everything themselves. It was like a very deep pattern, including myself.

Thank you. And was there for you like a turning point where you felt that like, I need to do this work and I'm going to go all in? And if you did have that, like, when was it that you said that like, this is the work and I got to dedicate more time into that and I'm all in?

Uh, that's a great question. So I have been fiddling around with this for 5+ years and, um, I can never step into it. Or really own it. And, you know, I would just redo things, you know, it was just being this avoidant perfectionist person. So I just was completely frustrated with my business, with my life. I felt like an imposter, you know, I'm helping people find their calling and I can't figure out my own stuff. And I just, I completely surrendered. I Um, it was hard for me because I was always in that feast or famine of, um, not having that like container of not just fun support, emotional support, but like financial support. Um, and you know, my family didn't really understand it. So I, um, I eventually just surrendered. I mean, I, I just gave it up to God, the creator, and I I, I just, you know, some, I just said, whatever you want me to do, I'm going to do it. I had no desire. And what happened with that, I know we've talked about in the group with the book, Michael Singer, and, um, and, um, just really fully surrendering was, um, I ended up, um, getting an opportunity to manage some investments. And it was something that I was kind of like really ashamed of telling people that I did in the past because it wasn't like heart-centered and it wasn't in the healing thing. And, but I did it anyways. And what happened was like, it was just amazing. You know, I was able to sustain myself. And, um, and, and give myself that breathing room to really launch Second Callings and to play again and all these things. And so, um, it kind of breaks my heart. Like, there's no one path, but like being a heart-centered entrepreneur is, you know, we think that we have to just make money just that one way. And it's, it's just so hard. I mean, I'm not saying you can't do it, but it really takes a lot of commitment and the money issue is real. And so, I mean, I can't even recognize my life right now. I mean, yeah, it was unbelievable what happened, but I embraced it. And for a long time, I resented that part of my life that I went to business school school and studied finance and business, and I hated it. And I was really, you know, my first jobs. But then kind of everything came around, you know, like that's why I believe like nothing in life is wasted. And I only went to business school because when my father passed away, my mom was really bad with finances. And I told myself, I was just so impacted by that as a kid that, I told myself I would never not know about this. And I didn't even get like a liberal arts education. I just went straight into this business school. And it was so not for me, but, you know, like 15, you know, long time. Now it came full circle and it served me and now I can do the work. So these stories happen different for everybody. You know, I happened to, hear that one story with you and Elena and kind of like the same thing with, um, you know, it's like I wanted to, like I was able to do nonprofit and coaching for a year for, you know, and help people. Or, bueno, you donate to causes. And so, you know, my way was just multifaceted. You know, I, I'm not just the one person. Thing. I was, um, um, and, and there's people that are like, I call them divers. They dive into one thing and, and spread out that way. I was like, I, I needed multiple things. Um, and I fully just embraced that. And, and so much of society told me I couldn't do that. You know, family said I wasn't focused. I was ashamed of, of like the whole money thing. I had, um, a lot of, um, growing up, um, just a bad money story that money is evil and things like that. So I had to get over a lot of that.

Yeah. Thanks for sharing. And I just want to mention that like, it's, it's very powerful, you sharing your story. And I think it's very helpful for people to see that there's no waste. Like maybe when you went to business school, like you thought that that would be something, or maybe like I went to business school and I'm like, I'm like, what am I doing here? Like, it took me years to realize that that wasn't a thing. And I was kind of like doing what people expected me to do in a way. But nowadays I'm like, but it makes total sense why I did what I did. Right. Even though if that's not like the career that I pursue, that's not exactly what I'm doing right now. If I'm not working for corporations and any of that, and my business was like business management for corporations. So just you, you know, um, well, I appreciate that you're sharing so openly and if you're listening to us, like everything. And that's kind of what I call like the sacred business, right? That's a combination of all of who you are. And if you can honor all of your parts, you're going to come up with something which is yours, like the second calling is like, it's unique to you and dealing with the childhood and all of that because it's coming from your story. So I just want to say that I appreciate your sharing and it's very, very powerful.

Yeah, there's, there's no one size fits all. And, um, and you just never know. And so I surrendered, um, and I had no desire. I was like, I am at my wit's end. I, because we don't know what we don't know and we're just strategizing and thinking forward and we can't look at it from the front looking back, you know, like when we look back in hindsight, it's a little bit obvious. And so that's where faith comes in. And I, and I, I'm such a cerebral concrete kind of person. I never really embraced that. And now I do wholeheartedly. Like I was like overthinker, like I needed to, um, understand things and see the evidence. And for me to embrace, um, trusting the mystery of life and having, um, this prayer and just, and just like giving it up and, and just stepping wholeheartedly into what is in front of you. And trusting in that. I'm a big believer in that if you, if, you know, when, when your intention is pure. So, mm-hmm.

So Eva, I think you've kind of touched on this in a few different ways, but just to kind of bring it back, what, is there anything you can think of for yourself that very specifically you used to believe about yourself that in this process of surrender or in this process of transformation that you've gone through to get to where you are today, you truly had to let go of, you know, that, you know, something that wasn't really in service to your calling?

Yes, that's a great question. Um, I, I, and I know we did this in our, um, embodiment classes, the topic of imposter syndrome. So, um, I, I just didn't believe I was good at what I was doing because it wasn't my sole source of income. Like I equated money and getting clients and success with how good I was. And because, um, you know how it is. I mean, that's why I so appreciate you guys, the marketing of it, where it's, it, they use the, you know, we're marketed like, oh, you know, I made this much money. Obviously I'm good. Right. And I was like, And then I would, oh, sorry, I have to touch my computer because I went, and that really tripped me up for a long time. And I had to get over that. Yeah. So just, it's really not about the credentials or money. It's really about the lived experience. And I think everybody here can attest to that, like, that's what we want and need, you know, we want somebody that's working beside us like a guide that's been there. So, um, that was one big belief.

That's very powerful. And I, I so agree with you. Like, I think the successful business that we want, like, can take many shapes, right? And it's always in the other side of the identity that do not believe that you deserve or that you should have one. So, You know, um, just the way you describe it is really beautiful. Um, a big issue that a lot of people working in this, in this field is like, they struggle with being seen. Uh, was that ever a thing for you? Uh, how do you deal with that? Um, and then is there anything that shifted for you right now? Because you're being seen, you're like here.

Yeah.

You're here with us right now.

How was that for you?

It was so, I mean, I can't believe. How being seen I am, because before I actually was so afraid of visibility. Not, I wasn't afraid. I was actually the opposite of afraid, not opposite, but I had some, you know, just that's why I'm interested in how people grow up. I mean, not just parental, but siblings and things like that. And it was, I was just always hiding myself, which just happened, you know, when I was a child. And even culturally in Asia, the quiet one is looked upon like that's the respected person. So it's deep. It's not just identity or it's like cultural. So I, I, um, I mean, really, I have to attest it was when I did Sacred Growth Club here. Because before, I just never, I just had excuses. I mean, and then, yeah, and at some point, my goal was to really just express my truth. That's all I cared about. It wasn't really, and creating space for people. To be heard and seen. It wasn't, I don't know why I was so scared. I had like, I was like a, I was, it all stemmed back to childhood. You know, I had a lot of trauma around not being heard and seen, needing to explain things a million times, people not understanding me. And so when it came to marketing, marketing was a huge thing for me. Um, I, I was like so self-conscious about my marketing. I would just write things like 10,000 times. And of course people, you know, when, if you don't consistently market, of course people aren't going to see you or get you, you know? And so, um, I'm a little long-winded in this question, but like it, it, it came, it was just, um, finally getting to a point where it didn't matter. It was really just sharing my truth and just getting over myself. And that was it. And the space that you guys provided helped a lot. And it just not being alone, you know, I think, you know, and we've talked about this, like it takes one person to witness you to just, just, I came to you guys and, and, um, I just was like, okay, if I sound crazy with this idea, then just tell me, right? And yeah, and then since then, I have not had a problem with sharing a lot of vulnerable stories and about my, like, I can't recognize myself really.

I just want to say it is an honor for us also to hold the container and the space with you and just to witness the way you share. Uh, when I read your stuff and you share like pictures when you're like kid and, you know, like you share your intimacy. And for me, this is like huge, uh, you know, because this is what is trying to be seen, like going back to that child conversation. It's that essence, essence over there. That maybe we had to build many walls, right? That is trying to come alive in your business right now. Like the playfulness and the joy and the, I'm just flowing and I'm not, I don't need to explain myself 10 times. I don't need to, you know, scream to be heard and I don't need to hide either. Like I just, um, I want to be seen just because that's our, the nature of our soul. And I think you're doing this in a very beautiful way. And it's very inspiring to not only read your posts, but the way you put your pictures and you tell your stories like that's very vulnerable. And I truly, truly appreciate that.

Yeah, definitely. And I, well, when I took my pause year off, that's how I came up with this CARE framework, um, because I had to connect with my essence, but then it was, it was, um, the, the, the fear of visibility. I, I didn't have internal safety with myself. Like I had to give myself what I needed as a child. And I know, and I think a lot of people like in their 50s, you know, older, like they feel ridiculous saying, oh, I have to give myself what I need as a child because we're so much older, but it's so much, it's even more important. And we all step into these roles. I mean, I studied a lot of developmental psychology and this stuff is like calcified in our family system. cultural system. It's where we get validation. It's the role we play. We try to change. It disrupts the whole family. Um, it's, it's, it's, it's difficult. So, um, I, I, I created for myself what I needed. And that's what I did with Second Callings. Before that was Brand from Within, where I was a social entrepreneur doing marketing and I and I was like, why am I showing up the way I am? Like, I felt ridiculous, you know, like I was always trying to come up with solutions for myself because I was always very curious about like how I, why I turned out the way I do or am, you know, like anyways, um, and I wanted to be intentional about it, intentional about my values, what they stand for. Bringing out the energy that's authentic to me. I really, being the black sheep, I never really wanted to like conform. So, you know, when I was very lost, confused, I would be able to look at myself and ask myself those questions. And for me, it was like a lot of the research I do was helping me pull threads. About like my archetype, you know, what's, you know, these things, um, really helped me just validate what I already know. Yeah, but yeah, I, I, I gave myself the internal safety. So when I put something out, I'm proud of myself because it's my truth and it's the best I could do. And I'm sharing something and if it can impact one person, I'm fine. You know, I, yeah, before I just had so much pressure. It just was the pressure to perform. And that works the opposite, but it's like the hardest thing to do. It's like, you know, there's so many accidental entrepreneurs and millionaires because they act like they just don't even give a shit, right? They're like, whatever, you know, they don't care. It's almost like that, but we care so much. And that's a part of the Amazing.

So kind of turning back towards the work you're doing with clients and also as you've been putting yourself out there and you've been sharing more with your message, is there anything you can think of that you find that— and I feel especially in this space and this inner child, there's a lot of people talking about this topic and there's a lot of people talking from different angles. So is there anything you wish people understood more about the work you do, like something that you feel often gets maybe either misunderstood or overlooked in certain contexts?

Um, I think a lot of people know their patterns, you know, like, um, like I'm an achiever or I'm a perfectionist, but it's like you're still, you know, maybe they start a new business or want to do something different, but what's underneath is still the same energy. So the activity, I mean, on the top can be the same, I mean, different, but what's underneath is the same. So you're just basically rebuilding something new with the same, it's just a different version of what you had before. So it's, you know, what I wish people would know is that it doesn't, especially now, it's, people want to connect with you because they love your energy and what you, the experience in your presence. It's especially now. And I don't, like, there's, it doesn't need to be as much performance and over-delivering and value as we think, as it is before. And now it's, with, especially with AI doing a lot of things, I think, um, people really just want your authenticity. That's it.

Yeah, I think you said it so well. And I have like a funny example for myself. Like you could do something new with an old energy. And even though outside it seems that, and the work is the inner work, right? That's exactly what you help people with. Um, I remember when I quit my job. Was a 9 to 5, Monday to Friday. And I found myself on a Monday and I had my whole day empty because I had no job and I was just like starting to work on my new business. And I was rushing in the morning to start at 9 AM for 6 months. Like, can you believe that? I'm like, I, I, I never really paused. Like, that was so ingrained in me that I needed to start working. I never really asked the question, like, is 9 AM my most creative time? Do I like working at 9 AM? Like, None of this was like, I was so, that's the autopilot that you often talk about. Like, like we're so operating the autopilot that here I am with all the freedom in the world and I don't know how to create something new because I wasn't looking within. And I just find funny and you're mentioning, I'm like, yeah, that was so me. And I'm sure there's like many other examples. Um, but people don't realize that like the pattern underneath is the one running the thing and you could create a new business. But if you are just like creating from performance and like hustling, the new business could just have a different shape. But if you don't change yourself, it's going to be hustle and it's going to be performing the same way.

Yeah. And it's so hard because we grew up as like, just work hard. If you work hard, you'll make it. Um, it's, it's not, that's not true. I mean, I mean, I, I, if I'm, I, I really take care of myself. Now because I think your energy is everything. I mean, your energy, you could be at the grocery store and meet somebody and it could change your life. And if your energy's off, you would have never met that person, right? So it's like really trusting in the universe that, you know, like the creator, God doesn't want it to be this hard. Like when did we ever adapt this struggle mentality? But it's so hard for us to let go of that because of our culture, especially in the US and Europe, it's not like that at all. Or in other places, but yeah, it's getting to be more like that. But it's, and my experiment was living proof because I took a year off. I stepped into what was in front of me. I ended up like doing like so well and so many good things happened. And I didn't, I'm not saying this is going to happen for everybody, but it's a different version of it for a lot of people. So it's like, I think it's really valuing your energy as everything, as like the number one commodity. I mean, number one asset is you. Even in like, if you're not clear or clarity and you're not sure, but you could spend like 10 hours, you know, on social media working, Are you going to like, are you going to do that? Or are you going to like go for a walk or go to the gym or, or do something to enhance your longevity? Right. Because I feel like your health is your greatest asset. Right. And so with, you know, when, when this whole, like the hustle thing is, is, and especially because I work with people going into retirement, it's, they're just so burnt out. There's, literally no light at the end of the tunnel. And I just want to tell everybody that there is, like, this is just the beginning. You can turn your life around and things, something can happen. Um, like, you know, so like, you know, we're all energetic, like the universe and it's like physics. And it's just like when you work on your energy and, and do whatever it's the healing or embodiment or anything like that. Just the universe rewards you.

So, yeah.

So, and maybe it's what you already stated, which I thought was a beautiful thing when you were sharing what you were proud of. But when you think about this journey you've kind of gone on, and I love how you, you know, your second calling is Second Callings and how much you embody that. And then as you said, as kind of living proof of possibility, but like for for yourself as you've been becoming who you are becoming through building this and not measuring just by results? Like, what are you most proud of in your own life as you've gone about this journey?

Hmm. I think I'm most proud of connecting with my authenticity. I know that word is overused, but I I'm most proud of just, you know, like going through and being alone, like just being down in the trenches and not ever giving up. Um, I mean, it's, it's been so long. It's like 30 years and, um, just, just, yeah, I, I, I, it was, it was just like a year or two ago that I surrendered and everything turned around for me. I launched Second Callings and I just let go of the old ways, my old thinking. And, but I am really, really proud of the past version of myself that, I mean, it's my current version that just was always curious, always wanting to learn, always never giving up, always resilient. Always cure, you know, so I, yeah, I'm glad I didn't like sell my soul and go like the safe route somewhere.

And yeah. And being, so yeah, being, I guess, a year or two in now with this new vision, like where, what do you see this all building towards? Like where would you like to see your work continuing as you as you continue to move forward with what you're doing with Second Callings?

That's a great question. Well, I would love to— I've been having meetings with my university, and I think it starts in education to really start teaching people about more the human side in building a career. You know, what do I want to become? And all these other things. Because everything is connected. You know, so much of who we are is kind of how we grew up and, you know, how we were parented, whether we like to think about it or not. And kind of unpacking that and seeing, you know, the qualities and the values you want to take on and the ones that are running the show that you don't, that aren't true to you. So, I would love that, you know, and I'm, it's not just for like Gen X, it's for all generations, but I think the millennials and the generation now, they're more in tune with these kinds of things and not so like focused on making money and success. But Gen X, definitely, we were in that time. Parents from like depression where, you know, without our career, like, you know, people just have like a midlife crisis. Like, who am I outside of my career? They never built a sense of like self or worth outside of what they do and they're depressed and they have no meaning in their life. And it's like, who wants to grow old with that? But that's kind of like the scenario right now. For Gen Xers is that, um, they, their whole identity was their career. And when they don't have it anymore, they don't feel like they don't have any meaning or they don't know. And then, and they don't know how to rebuild that as a, as an adult, because as we get older, it's harder.

Yeah, this is so powerful. And I'm very glad that you're kind of, um, stepping into this field of education because I think we have an education system in general, like, and even like way before college and university that like doesn't really serve the essence, right? It serves a structure that was created by society of like how you should feed the system. And I think right now it's a time that people are waking to like, hey, I need to question if the system is serving me, right? Like before it was not even a question and now it's like, Is the system serving me? And if not, maybe it is, and that's fine. But if not, like, then it's towards what you're, you're kind of guiding us through. It's like, who am I that it's not the person that is the doer all the time? Who, what do I want for myself? Um, and the early, I think we can ask those questions. Like, I believe that for my generation and, uh, most of people like in the 40s, 50s right now, that was the path. Like you leave your 20, 40 years and like the 20, like you're not aware, then you begin to be aware and then you have your career and then you're like 40, 50 years old and then like, oh, now I need to question. Um, I don't know if it's, this is always the thing or if the evolution is changing that like maybe we could ask those questions earlier in life also. Um, yeah, if the, you know, if the education changes and now maybe I could be connected to my essence, like the condition will always, always exist. I don't believe this is a wrong thing. It's just. The way it is. Um, but does it need to take so many years, like half of our life? I'm not sure. Like, um, it's not an answer to anything. I'm just kind of like, I'm wondering about.

Yeah, no, it's in the whole retirement, that word. It's like, um, oh, sorry, my computer went blank. Um, it's, it's, um, I mean, you want a career where you're never going to retire from. So there's not this like condensed timeline. I think people have this timeline compression and that makes people more in scarcity and do things to compromise their health or to work more because they feel like this urgency. But the thing is, if you take care of yourself, that timeline just went a lot farther. right? And if, and if you're able to balance this life where you, you, you, you know, you know, you figured out the finances in your life and, and everything to sustain yourself and you're doing something that is meaningful, that is, lights you up and it's a beautiful life, you know, and even people in their 50s actually are the most, like, that's our cognitive peak. And so most people think, or like in our society, we're so burned out by 50, we just like can't wait for retirement because we just want to like sit on a couch and eat bonbons or something like that, you know? And it's, it's just, you know, it's just, um, it doesn't have to be that way. And yeah. So, um, it's, it, yeah, it's, it's the, the whole, the, the, this, this, I mean, yeah, we could go on forever and talk about like this. Put in is, is, you know, the marketing system's not very good. It just makes us, it just triggers us even more. All the things that we talk about with the nervous system and feeling safe, and those are the conditions that you need in order to transition, right? Like you need that, but then everywhere we're going, we're getting triggered back. And so that's what my journey was like is going forward, preparing myself just, and then like getting triggered and then going back. Going back and forth. Like it was like the start and stop, start and stop. And then I have to go and regulate myself and it'd take me all day and then I'd go out and then something else would happen. I have to come back and it was just like really exhausting. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, cool. Well, we, um, we, we certainly have appreciated getting to know you, have you in our community and, and really the work that you're doing. And so, um, if anyone has been listening and, you know, we'll be sharing the replay as well and, you know, their curiosity has been stoked and they wanna learn more about you and the work you're doing, like what would be the best first step? Obviously you're here on Substack with us, so that's one way they can find you, but what would you suggest for them as maybe a best first step?

Yeah, definitely. Well, I have a lot of articles on Substack about things I've talked about. I haven't gotten into all the things that have, that go into like pulling these amazing threads of your life and making them so beautiful. But, and, but it's, it's, yeah, my Substack. And then I have an assessment that kind of uncovers what the, your like parental pattern or what pattern that is for you. And, you know, there's also a lot of gold in, in our patterns. You know, we, we think of them negatively, like survival pattern, but that's like, you know, All those things are like our greatest, like, wisdom, our greatest fuel, really, for differentiating ourselves, making ourselves different. Our lived experience comes from a lot of the things that we might think are negative. So everything really kind of matters. I talk about all of it on my, on my Substack, and the assessment is on there, and some of the most of the links at the end, there's a link to the assessment and you can always like message me if you can't find it. Cool.

Yeah. We'll make sure that, that I know where that link is on your site and I will make sure that it gets into the recap of this as well. Just so if anyone's watching or listening, they can quickly check that out because I know you've been doing some good work with that. So yes, thank you so much for being here with us. It's been a true honor and Yeah, we're really excited to see how your work continues to unfold over the rest of this year and beyond.

Yeah, definitely. And thank you guys for having me. Like I said on the Substack, it's just really, I'm just super passionate about knowing yourself. There's so much power in that. And then just this reframing, just much more like possibility and just uncovering your your energy. So, um, anyways, thank you guys for having me.

Yes. Thank you for being here. Thank you everyone for listening to, um, to us and Eva, I just want to say thank you for having the courage to step into the role that you are right now. I know it's not easy. You know, it's not easy. Uh, and everything that every time that we are trying to create that's so close to our heart, like that's where we face All the resistance and then all the patterns, like right in our face. And then we get the choice to like, what do we do with that? Do I use as a strength or, you know, I hold myself back and you chose to step forward. So I truly, truly appreciate, um, being in this journey with you and thank you for participating in this live with us. And thank you everyone.

Thank you.

Okay. See you.

All right.

Bye.

See you later.

Bye.