Sacred Business Stories w/ Rebecca Weston: A 12-Year Journey on the Camino de Santiago

In the awkward phase. So we could just. We could just talk about our.

Yeah. Like, it's disconnecting, but then it doesn't tell you when it actually connects. And then you're, like, talking, and then you're like, oh, we're live. I guess we're here.

Okay. And.

And there we are. So welcome. Yeah, welcome. This is Sacred Business Stories. This is our weekly substack Life, where we have an honest conversation about what it looks like to create a business that's aligned with your deepest truth. And today, we're super excited to have Rebecca Weston with us. We'll let her share her story here in a little bit as we allow time for people to come on. But for now, just kind of like the quick notes. Rebecca helps people turn their Camino de Santiago dreams into reality. And been drawing on her experience of, I think 12. Is it. Yeah. 12 pilgrimages she's done in the last 12 years, which is incredible, the consistency of that. And I'll let her tell you a little bit more about what the Camino is if you're not familiar with that. It's something I wasn't familiar about until I got to know Rebecca a bit. So it's a really cool experience, but she's a seasoned educator, speaker, and really the best at what she does. And so she shares her experience through her writing. She's been the guest. Been a guest on many podcasts within the Camino communities, and now really also supporting clients kind of one on one directly with creating their Camino experiences. So welcome, Rebecca. Thank you for being here with us. And, yeah, I'm really excited for this conversation.

Thank you, guys. Me too.

Yes. I like. Just before we start, Rebecca, well, first, thank you for being here, and I'm very excited from this conversation because, as you know, I love traveling, but the reason why we created Sacred Business Stories, and I just like to add that as a reminder is for us, Phil and I, but also for our listeners, to feel inspired. Your idea is so unique, and I feel that we all have this combination, this unique combination of, like, life experiences and the things that we like to do and the challenges that we've been through and the things that helped us to grow in life. And when we can combine all of that and transform that into, like, a business, if that's the desire, it doesn't need to be, but if that's the desire, I feel that. Well, it's a. It's a great way of using our time, you know, as we spend a lot of time working in life. So, yeah, this is really and truly to inspire people and to keep inspiring us so that, you know, in a way, I think it keeps us moving and doing what we do, putting all our hearts on it. So, yeah, I'll pass the word to you and welcome everybody that you're watching. I think it's going to be a very inspiring conversation.

Yeah. So, Rebecca. Yeah. Just kind of tell us how we got here, like, what it is you do. What is this crazy thing called the Camino? And just, you know, just from a little bit about yourself and how you got into what you're doing now and.

Would love to hear from you. Yeah. So, for those who don't know, the Camino de Santiago is actually a network of historically pilgrimage trails across Europe leading to Santiago de Compostela, which is a town in or a city, actually, in northwestern Spain. Some people have said that the roots of the Camino have been around since Roman times. Other people say they kind of sprouted up as this whole pilgrimage idea started. The Camino has its roots in religion. In all honesty, it was Santiago de Compostela, supposedly where the remains of St. James, one of the apostles, were discovered. And then a big cathedral came. And there's lots of debate about if that's what's actually there or not. But long story short is for over 1200 years, people have been walking to Santiago de Compostela. There are people that just walk for a week. There are people that walk for five weeks. There are people that walk out their door in Germany and walk to Santiago. It's a pretty powerful experience with definitely highs and lows. I think a lot of people you talk to that have done it will be like, oh, my gosh, it was amazing. And I feel like part of my mission is to also let people know. Yes, it's amazing, and it's hard. There's going to be challenges. I mean, it's not necessarily even physically, but all kinds of stuff that happen when you're out day to day with yourself, walking this trail, meeting people from. From around the world. So, in a nutshell, that's what it is. And as far as my experiences with it, I first heard about it 25 years ago. Now, back in the year 2000, 2000 or 2001, Shirley MacLaine, who's an American actress, walked the Camino de Santiago and wrote a book about it. At the time, I was watching some morning news program, and I saw her. I didn't know why she was famous. She's a little bit before my time, but this walk that she did Sounded really interesting. And so I kind of filed it away that I want to do that someday. And 12 years later I took a year self imposed sabbatical and decided that as part of that there were a few things I wanted to do during that time. And one of those was to walk the Camino. And so I did my first camino back in 2012 and within days I knew I wanted to come back. There's just. And I think this is one of the things I wrote in one of my recent substacks is so many people would say it's so hard to describe this experience to people who haven't done it yet. We try. And so, yeah, after I came back to my first one, I would have loved to turn right around and do another one. But I was in my mid-30s. But I met a group where I moved to in Asheville, North Carolina who a bunch of people that have done the Camino and numerous times and got together every single week to talk about it to help other people who wanted to go on it. If they heard about them, they'd say, oh, go see this group of people, they'll help you. And so we did that. And when I first got to that group, they said, oh, why don't you go on back? And I was like, and most of those guys and some women were retired. And I said, well, I'd love to, but you know, I actually have to work. I can't always take off and walk across Spain. So if you had told me then that 12 years later here I'd be having done a Camino 12 times, that it's just incredible to me. So yeah, getting from point A to point B, you know, lots of different turns along the way, but in essence that's kind of the journey I've been on.

Yeah. Like what fascinates me about your journey and the little that I know is that you said that like, oh, I walked the Camino 12 times. And every time is unique. And I relate that like, you know, like all the transformations, if you could speak more to that and then how you integrate that back to your life and how that thing changes you from the inside out, that translates into your life experience. And what I think it's like a beautiful way to see that is what if we could live life this way. Right. Because we see the same thing over and over. Like we see like I'm in the same house and then I have the same routine and there is something there for us to experience life different that I feel that travels bring in form of Wisdom. But then after a couple of days, it kind of forgets. So how was this? And if you could just speak more to. Yeah, 12 times, maybe different routes a little bit. But in essence, it's the same experience and how it is so unique and all the transformations that keeps happening in your life.

Yeah. And that is a good thing to point out. Like when I say 12 caminos, what's that? By definition, so many people think you walk the Camino de Santiago, but you can start anywhere. As I mentioned, some people walk out their doors in wherever, Belgium. So there are different routes. Coming up from southern Spain, coming from Portugal, coming across from France. And so when someone says they've done a Camino, it doesn't necessarily even mean that they got to Santiago de Compostela, because for some people who can only take. Like, a lot of Europeans who are still in their working lives will do a week of the Camino every year, and then they'll come back the next year to where they left off, and they'll do another week and then another week until they get to Santiago, maybe six years after they started, but week by week. So, yes. So when I say 12 caminos, I have walked into Santiago de Compostela about six times, and actually, just last month was the first time I ever actually drove to Santiago de Compostela. It was as the real experience, but anyway, so the transformative experience of it, it's pretty darn fascinating. First of all, you meet people that you probably would have never met otherwise in your life. I mean, people from all walks of life. So many countries, so many life experiences are walking this for so many reasons. So first of all, that alone, like, I'm just getting chills now, just even saying that, thinking of all the conversations I've had, things that people have shared with things that I've shared with other people. A lot of people come on the Camino for some sort of. For some reason, whether it's something, you know, kind of bigger, like, they just retired, they just graduated, they just, you know, lost a partner. They want a change in their life, but aren't sure what. So there are plenty of. There are some people who do it, you know, as a kind of just like. As a physical challenge. But most people that come for that end up seeing it. Recognizing this is actually a lot bigger than just saying, oh, I did this. I did this physically challenging thing. It is emotionally, spiritually, mentally, there's all kinds of challenges that you face in this time. But. And it's not just those challenges that you're facing on your own. But the fact that there is this community, this moving community of people who are all on this same path with the same goal. And it's not only that everyone is kind of supporting each other, but the people of Spain and these other countries, if you choose to walk through these countries, it is incredible that a country can pull this thing off. There are individual groups in each region in Spain that are responsible for kind of helping to maintain the marking, the yellow arrows, some of the. Which are the trail markers. Some regions have specific trail markers that are, you know, big and placed, but the people themselves, I can't tell you the number of times people have told me, and I've had this experience myself, I always get lost coming out of big cities. So coming out of Leon, coming out of Burgos, just to try and find these yellow arrows in these cities, they're painted sometimes on, you know, on. On park benches, they're painted on trees. They're, you know, so you have to keep your eye out for them. And I'll never forget this one. And she was dressed in scrubs, clearly on her way to work in some sort of medical facility. And at the time, I didn't speak any Spanish, but I knew enough to say, you know, where's the Camino? And she literally walked with me for 10 minutes. We could not communicate in the same language. And she made sure that she put me back on the Camino. And I've heard stories like these countless times. Locals that will, you know, somebody's injured and someone will drive them to a medical center for them to get. I mean, it's just so many people have said if the world could function like the Camino functions, it would be an incredible place to live. And I still believe the world is an incredible place to live if we look for it and recognize how amazing it is. But on the Camino, it is just. It's right there. It's real, it's physical. It's right in front of you. I don't even know if that even touches on it, but. So, yeah.

Yeah.

Wow.

It's okay.

I was going to say, but you did ask about post Camino, and that is something that I. That's. I'm glad that you brought that up, because it is a thing that a lot of people don't think about. A lot of people. You know, I work with people, helping them to get to the Camino. You know, we cover training and which route to take and accommodations and, you know, what you're going to pack and all that. Kind of stuff. But one of the things that I do bring up that a lot of people don't, I think in the beginning they're like, yeah, okay, whatever. But it is something to adjust to life post Camino, whether you've just walked it for five days or for two weeks or whatever, to come back into your day to day life. And people might say, oh, how was your trip? And you, you can't even like, you just don't have the words. It's not like, oh, let me show you the pictures from when I went to see the Coliseum in Rome. It's a whole, I struggle even sometimes for the words to describe it. So there are even groups of people who, that's one of the reasons that this group that I met in Asheville. It's nice to be able to meet other people who have done it to help you process it when you get back. And I check in with my clients when they get back. How are you doing post Camino? And I offer suggestions to people. I tell people, you know, if you're going to do the Camino and you're flying from the US or you're coming over from Australia or New Zealand or wherever, I say, if you're going to be a tourist, do that before you do the Camino. Because post Camino you are not in the space. Like you show up to some big city to be a tourist and you, it's, it's overwhelming. It's, it's, it's hard. It's. Some people soar, can do it and have done it successfully. That's wonderful thing about life and the Camino is everybody does it their own way. But that is hands down a piece of advice that I give people. If you're going to go somewhere, park yourself somewhere and be in that place and just give yourself time to process this experience that you just had. And then post. I mean week after week after week. It is helpful to kind of connect with other people who understand what you've just been through. And there are plenty of places and ways to do that as well. And that really helps as well as writing about it. I was lucky enough to be hired to write for a full year after my first Camino. I'm so grateful for that experience that I got to blog every week about bringing the lessons of the Camino back into my day to day life. So yeah, yeah, thank you for sharing.

I just, I want to share something that I felt and I've never done the Camino, but while you were like, and I'm having Like, chills throughout the conversation. Like, insane. And when you're describing, like, that this worker helped you to go back to the Camino and took, like, 10 minutes. And, like, the way you're describing to me is almost as if the Camino show us what being human really is. And then when you experience. Yeah, and then when you experience that, you know, like, being vulnerable and going to the expansion and the contraction and then being helpful for others and, you know, like, I don't speak your language, but I'm here to communicate with you in, like, different ways. Then when you go back to life and then we see that we are not exploring our full human potential, that's where the integration is. Right. Like, maybe the shock and, like, how can I be the human that I was throughout the Camino back in my life? And I don't know. Like, I just feel like it's like. And I've never experienced that, but, yeah, that's how I felt when you shared.

And I think you've nailed it. I love that. And there's so many. Yeah, I'll just leave it at that. But absolutely.

Cool. I wanted to ask you one more question on the personal side and then kind of shift that to learning more about your business journey as things have evolved. But I was curious if you can remember back to, like, the first time you did this, and you described how you came across it and learned about it and then decided to embark on this, on this journey, what was the most surprise, if you can remember? You probably had this expectation in your head. Maybe you had intentions, tensions around what you wanted to create for yourself as you went into that experience. But if you can think back, like, what. What was kind of the most surprising element of it, you know, kind of beyond a lot of the cool things you've already shared here with us today.

Yeah, I think one of the most surprising things to me was a variety of people, honestly, and the just generosity of people it kind of put me back in touch with. People in general are good people. People want to help each other. They want to be nice to each other. They want to. It's. I feel like today especially, we have this world where there seems to be so much, you know, one against the other and stuff like that. And it's nice to step back and really be physically present somewhere with people who are definitely different from you, first of all, just because of all the countries that we represent. But. But in so many ways. And it's. It's just most of us don't have an experience with that many People from that many different countries for that long of a period of time.

I'm.

I was on my first Camino for 37 days. And so this. These connections. I. I was. I mean, I traveled before, so I knew about, you know, I'd connected with people in other cultures. But the way that you can sit at a table with people from 10 different countries and all talk about something, you know, representative of. And how do you guys do that in your country? And how. What about here? Or how we feel about things? And. And identifying the similarities and the difference. I mean, it was just, as I said, I've traveled internationally before, but this took it to a whole other level. And the. Yeah, I. I think that was probably the biggest surprise for me. I knew it would be, you know, people from all over the world, but I don't think I realized the depth to which I would get to be with these people.

Yeah, and this is. This is really connected to what Carolina said about the humanity aspect. I feel that in a way, there's almost like nothing more important we could be doing at this. I feel at this particular time in history, like. And this is kind of what I was sharing earlier this week when I was talking about my. My recent retreat experience, which is obviously different, but it was a transformational experience in a different way. And I think that, yeah, in this time where we, you know, the media and just like, this kind of disconnect we feel and the identities that are imposed upon us in so many different ways, it is extremely powerful when you can come together with people of all these differences and you're kind of united by this common bond or cause or shared intentions, and then you. Yeah. You truly see that. That we are all, in the end, the same. And so, yeah, I love that. I just think that, yeah, I feel like creating experiences like this in our lives is some of the most important work we can be doing. So. Yeah, I love that. And then I wanted to shift kind of towards the business side of things. Like, when was the moment? So you've made. It's clear how this is kind of your passion, your energy around this is infectious. Kind of like Carolina was saying. I was kind of getting goosebumps listening to you talk, too, because your presence and how much I can tell you care for this topic. And then going on this journey of 12 years, when was the moment when it started to click that you're like, yeah, this could be my life's work, or this is something that I wanted to not only experience for myself, but start to guide and help Other people open up to. Can you share a little bit more about what that journey has been for you?

Yeah, I. I had the honor, honestly, of my. My third Camino. I. I had a friend who was in her 70s and good friend of mine, and I said, if you ever want to do the Camino, you would love this, and I would go with you. And for. I think it was five years, or no, maybe it was a few years, she was like, no, no, no, I think I'm past that. I don't think. And finally, every once in a while, she sent me an article about the Camino, and. And I would always write back to her and say, offer still stands. And finally, she wrote to me and she said, you know what? I'm going to do this. And so that was my first experience of preparing, putting together a Camino with someone else in mind. And for that one, the two of us went together. I was with her. I did all the prep. I mean, I took her through how to train for it, what she needed to bring. All the stuff that I do now with clients, I did for her on that first trip. And then I, you know, accommodations and all kinds of things, and so. And so we have that experience together, and it was just really powerful. I did the same exact walk with her that I did three years earlier, but like you said, it was a completely different experience. And it was so powerful for. To be there with someone else who. And she still, to this day says it was one of the most amazing things she's done. She's so grateful. But to be there with her and see her having this experience and be part of it was just. I wanted more of that. And as well, when I did my first Camino, no one had ever even heard of this thing. No one I knew had ever heard of it. And people would connect me. I would. Every once in a while, I'd run into some, like. Pretty much like a stranger. I just strike up conversations with people, and somebody eventually would be like, oh, I've heard of that. My cousin's best friend's sister did that. Do you want me to put you in touch? And I would be like, yeah, sure. And these random people, not random people who had done the commute would call me, and they would talk to me for 30 minutes, an hour, hour and a half, answering all my questions. And I decided when I did my first one, I want to pay this forward. And so that kind of came around as well. And it was very easy to do. Thanks to that group in Asheville, people were coming to us saying, can you help us? And so, yeah, it kind of. And then I started to, you know, people started learning about the Camino, thanks in part to the US Movie, the way with Martin Sheen and other people started connecting people with me again, people I didn't know, but my friend would say, oh, my friend wants to walk to the Camino, and we'd have conversations. And it got to the point where I realized that there are a lot of, there's a lot of material out there about the Camino, about people that are doing it, carrying backpacks and staying in hostels, which is one way to do the Camino, but it is not the only way. And I felt like there was a need for someone to be out here saying, hey, this is not only for people who can physically carry a backpack and who want to sleep in a room with, with 10, 15, 20 people. It's actually one of the things I love about the Camino is that it's open to so many people in so many ways. People who are blind have walked it, people in wheelchairs. On my first Camino, I met a guy on forearm crutches who did the whole Camino on crutches. So it is incredible. So I wanted people to be aware that there's not just one way to do this thing. And if you don't want to carry a backpack, if you can't carry a backpack, that's fine. There are people that have this idea of this is the right way to do the Camino, to which I kind of jokingly will say, well, you know, what time period are you talking about? Because in the middle Ages, we didn't have dry wicking clothing, we didn't have hiking shoes, we didn't even have backpacks. I mean, they were carrying just a staff with a little bag on it. So how real do you want to be? What time period you want to go back to? I mean, so I am one of those people that firmly believe, like, I want to let other people know there are so many ways that you can make, make this thing happen and stay in hostels and carrying your backpack is not the only way. And so I felt like there was a need for, for more of us to be out there saying, hey, you can do this other ways. And so, and the more and more people that contacted me, some people that were indeed carrying backpacks and, and staying in hostels and that's fine too. But I just felt like there were so many people that were saying to me, oh, no, I can't do that. I could Never sleep in a hostel or I'm too old for that now. Like, I. I like my. I need my private bathroom. And I was like, that's okay. You could still do the Camino. And they were like, really? You can do that? Yeah. I mean, you're not going to stay in a Hilton every night. You're in some tiny little towns along this thing, and you will have a private room with a private bathroom. But it might be pretty basic, but, yeah, there's a lot of ways to do this thing.

And what I like, I really love what you're sharing, because as you were sharing, you know, people started, like, talking to me, and I was becoming this reference. Like, it's just beautiful to see that you never planned, you know, like, it was never, like, you like, oh, now.

I'm gonna go and do it.

And I'm not like, this is like, that's how beautiful and perfect the universe is to, like, you know, just giving you enough hints of, like, yay. Follow this. How you say it, like the breadcrumbs, right? Like, that this is just here. And then you connect to this person. Then you share for an hour, and then they start asking you questions.

And.

And it's so organic and, like, for our listeners. Like, I just want people to feel that, like, life is giving you signs all the time, right?

Like, absolutely.

You did that for yourself, and then you had your experience, and then it was beautiful when you felt that you were, like, at service, when you followed someone, when you, like, were, like, going with your friend, and now. And then how that felt in your body, and you're like, oh, I want to experience service more. That's what it is, right? Like, I want to serve more. And then you're just like, life was like, so get this, get this, get this. And, you know, it's like, this is how I, like, in a way, like, your business was starting, like, 12 years ago. You know, when you first did that, when that thing expanded your heart, and you're like, oh, I want to do this, and I want to help people to do that. And. And it's just amazing that you can create something like this from being present and listening to and seeing the signs that life is showing you. And it's not an overnight thing, and it's not like, let me Google and create a plan. It's like, the process of becoming. So it's very, very powerful, like, everything that you just shared. Thank you.

You're welcome.

Cool. So now I'd love to kind of touch on, you know, one of the Things that we talk a lot about in our community. I know you're part of our community, but for our audience is that it's really normal to kind of have resistance or fear kind of coming up as you're kind of leaning into your meaningful work or creating something new. And I know you've had a lot of past experience, like as an entrepreneur, as a business owner, you know, starting to create this business, supporting people with Camino is not your first thing. But I'm curious, as you've moved more into this work, what is one area where you experience fear and resistance coming up for yourself? And maybe in a way that it could be useful for anyone listening that experiences something similar. Like, what are some ways you work with that to kind of keep moving forward? Because it's so clear you're on your mission, on your passion. And yeah, I think it's so important for people to have the practical tools to keep themselves moving forward. So I'd love to hear from you on that. Anything you could share?

Yeah, I think. I think the first thing that. And it seems so simple, but just showing up consistently over and over and over. You know, I post every Sunday on Substack, and I've never. This is the first time I've ever actually. Well, no. 12 years ago, when I was hired to blog about the Camino, I did write every week. But since then, this is the first time I've been showing up every single week with information about the Camino. And just by committing to that, so much has opened up for me. So I think that's the first thing. Even. There are some weeks where I'm like, oh, I'm struggling with what to write or I want to get the right whatever, but just keep going is just the first thing. Keep showing up, keep going the second. Another fear that I had, one of the fears that I. That I've had for sure was people. If. If things. If things went wrong on the Camino, that it would be my fault and people would blame me. And here's the thing, things are going to go wrong. Like, I can almost guarantee anyone who is wanting to do the Camino, something is going to go wrong. Not something terrible necessarily, but we can't control this experience completely. And so it's something now that I. That I tell my clients and I teach in my classes, like, you can do all the prep you want. And I think it's kind of like this with our businesses, too. You can think, this is exactly what I'm going to do. And these are the steps that I'm going to take. But life throws things at you, and you have to be able to kind of roll with that. And so I will tell people, if you are not someone that can handle, like, things that life might throw at you, if you are a traveler, who needs to know on this day, at this time, I'm doing this. The Camino is not for you. You need to be open to, and I need to be open to all of that. And so I. I fully recognize, like, okay, wait a minute, I can't control this is. There's nothing in life that we can 100% completely control. And so kind of. I think one of the ways that I face that fear was actually by saying that to my clients, because it's something that is so helpful for them to recognize, too. This is not, you know, your Viking river cruise. Like, I mean, it is not planned to the T, you know, so. So, yeah, you can plan it to a point, but. And not to say you're not going to have some amazing experiences and. And unusual things happen on. On a Viking river cruise, but. But it's. It's a very different traveling experience, and you have to be open to the fact that things might not go your way, but that is also part of the Camino and it's part of what it's there to teach you.

So it's pretty cool when you said that if you're someone that needs to know from A to Z, everything, all the details, and you need to control everything, and the Camino is not for you. The first thing that came to my mind, the Camino is for you. You should go there tomorrow. Because it's just like life, I will tell you.

This is actually funny because the first. My first Camino, the first person that I became a really good Camino friend with, and now a friend still to this day, was a guy who was like 20 years older than me, had already maybe 30. He'd already been retired for a while. He said to me on our first night, we were actually staying in a hostel. And he said to me, he said, yeah, this is a really different experience for me. Like, I've traveled a lot, but this is really different. And. And I was like, well, yeah, of course. But like, in what way are you speaking about? And he said, well, let me put it this way. Remember, this was 12 years ago, before booking.com, before all this. He said, when I travel, I know exactly what the place I'm staying is going to look like. I know where it is. I know what services it has, because he was just a very high level corporate guy, completely out of his element, but loved the Camino. Went back and did it multiple times. I mean, so, yeah, to that point I like, thank you for bringing that up. Like, yeah, maybe you do need the Camino and you're like, if, if you've never. Because a lot of people that do the Camino, I, I also volunteer on the Camino and so I volunteer in a pilgrim office in one of the towns where a lot of people start. And so I get to be with people on their first day of their first Camino and it's amazing. And one of the things that I love is when people sit down in front of me and they say to me, I have never done anything like this. And I'm like, great, welcome, you're here. Congratulations. Like, I just, I'm there to support them. And so there are a lot of people who do a Camino and have never done anything like this before in their lives. A lot of people who have never. Who do it by themselves and have never traveled by themselves or never traveled by themselves internationally. I mean, there's for so many people. I've met so many people on my Caminos and even clients I've worked with who have so many firsts. You know, I've never done X, Y or Z, but here's the Camino with, with this whole other experience and people are ready to face it and they do. It's, it's, it's amazing to be a part of.

I, I love this. I'm going to take advantage of this moment and see if I can pick your brain and get some advice. I think like, an experience like this sounds incredible for myself and something I've spoken about with Carolina in the past because I also do love travel, but I've always been one of these people who I always know. Yeah, I'm in that camp of I always know where I'm going to stay. And I actually get a lot of joy out of the planning and looking at Airbnbs and dreaming and being like, oh, this could be the space. But something I had shared with her in the past, I was, I would love to experience the version of myself that just shows up in a random country or something without knowing where I'm going to stay. And I'm like, just, just kind of walking or driving and I'm like, oh, that place looks cool. Or that looks inspiring. Let's just see if there is like any availability. So I know you talk about how you help your clients with accommodations, but Is there an element of that, like, where people just show up and they kind of just like, wing it and like. Or is that, like, a dangerous thing in the context of this kind of experience?

So there are definitely people that do it that way. Most of my clients are not those people, but that's fine. I have a mix. I should say most of my clients, if they're only going for a week or two, you can plan it ahead. I have a client who's starting in a couple weeks, and he's going with his daughter. So they've planned the first week to get it under their belt a little bit, but then the last few days, they're going to go kind of on the fly and see how it goes. But there are also. I also teach my clients, you know, all the tools that are available to you. If you go on the fly and then all of a sudden you're like, oh, my gosh, I need to find a place to stay. I need to book ahead. This is not going to work for me. There are tools available for you. It is. Okay, so, yeah, you can do it either way. For people that want to do a longer Camino, it gets a little trickier. Because if you're going to do a Camino for three or four weeks, what if something happens? What if you get tendonitis? What if you sprain an ankle? What if you, you know, if you have all of these accommodations planned. Yes, that's what travel insurance is for. However, just logistically, it. It could be a nightmare to try and reroute everything and all of that. So sometimes what people will do is have, like, maybe the first week booked, and then they decide, you know, okay, do I want to just keep booking a week in advance? Do I want to. You know. And then it also depends on when you go, because some of these Camino routes are very busy at certain times of year. I love the people that are. That say to me, oh, I'm going to go do the Camino in May in the off season. And I'm like, that's not the off. Off season for the Camino de Santiago. You might think it is, but let's talk about the numbers here. That is not the off season. So. So, yeah, there. There are a variety of ways to do it, and you do. And that's one of the cool things about the Camino. There is still. There are still places on the Camino where you actually cannot reserve. Most of those places, though, are hostels. But. And most of them, there are a whole series of hostile that are by donation. So people that. I mean, so. So you can actually just show up. It's easier to do on certain routes. It's easier to do certain times of year on certain routes, but it is possible. But I will say most of my clients are definitely want to at least start with a plan, if not have the whole thing planned out, which is totally fine as well.

And I also enjoy my private bathroom, too, if I'm honest.

Yes, yes, yes.

These things could be in conflict a little bit.

You're talking to my people. It's rare that I have somebody that's like, oh, yeah, I'm just gonna do hostels and I'm just gonna wing it. Those are usually not the people that are hiring me.

Yeah, I love the energy that you bring because it brings such a sense of safety because you're so knowledgeable and you've done so many times, but at the same time, like, you create the space for the adventure, you know? So it's. It's that invitation that, like, yeah, like, I want to do it and I want to plan and I want to have the information, but I don't want to figure it out all my steps, because, you know, like, I still want to get the element of, like, being surprised and encountering things that I never thought was possible. And I love that, like, the way you speak about it and the way you are kind of, like. Like, yeah, you could do this. You could. Like, you give all the options and you bring the sense of safety. But, like, yeah, this is what you have here to support you. But, you know, go and explore yourself, because this is what the Camino is all about. So, yeah, it's very nice. And by the way, I'm the one that, like, I don't plan. I show up, then there's no hotels, and then I ended up paying, like, €200 for, like, one single bed. And then I'm like, where do I eat? And everything is closed. Because in Spain, it's like, you know, the lunchtime is different. Like, and I've had, like, so many. But I'm learning to appreciate more. More planning as well. And, like, yeah, you know, I can thrive in my adventure here, but it's nice to have, like, a safe bed to sleep and spend the night.

Absolutely, absolutely. And there are people. And there are. And I also work with people who end up hiring a separate company to plan, because there are other companies that, like. But they're tour companies. They don't.

Some of them.

Most of them do other things besides the Camino. And I Talk with my clients about the pros and cons of using those companies, which is totally fine if you want to do that. But there are some things that are important to know if you book a two week trip with those companies. Because I've had people that are like, I called them right when I had a problem and I'm like, well, if they don't have a 247 support line, you can't call them 24 7. Whereas I have clients that have requested from me. You know, can, you know, do you offer a service where you can be like, available to me on WhatsApp while I'm on the Camino? So I can call you if I have questions, if I can't find whatever, if I need whatever. And so that's something that just a recent client said to me. I would definitely pay to have you on, on my WhatsApp to, you know, to help with this stuff because, you know, just depending on if you speak the language and all that. So. Yeah, And I work with people that, yeah, if you want to book with one of those places. Awesome. And then we still go into all the other little intricate things that you might need to know in order to get you there. Cool.

So at this point, the other question we love to ask people about on this show is kind of another thing that people oftentimes struggle with as they're trying to kind of share their voice and share more about what they do. And their meaningful work is like, how to create meaningful, authentic connection. But I think for you, I want to ask this, I want to throw a little bit of a wrench here and ask this, like, in a slightly different way, which is, you know, everything that you've shared with us here today about the Camino and your experience with it, it has such, you know, it's embedded in it, in its fabric, is this idea of community and service and connection and how much that's brought to your life. And so I'm curious, for anyone who struggles with meaningful, authentic connection, sharing their message, whatever it may be, with what they're creating in the world, what lessons have the Camino taught you about that and that maybe could be applied to everyday life? Because I feel like this is the other theme of, like, how are you taking the Kinito back into everyday life? So I thought that could be an interesting way of. Of asking that of you.

Yeah. Okay. So. Of taking people through my walks on the Camino or through my experiences on the Camino.

Yeah. And just how connection, you know, what you've learned about connection and Community and service from these 12 years, how that applies to kind of your overall thinking about creating connection in this world.

I think, you know, the biggest thing is the authenticity. I feel like, you know, being authentic to who you are and what you're about and also being, being open to the connections that you might not necessarily think would even be a connection for you. It's amazing to me that people like, as I've said that, that you can find a commonality with. So, yeah, making those connections and reaching out, even to people that, yeah, you might not think that there's something in common with, but maybe there is a threat of it. It's just that idea that connections, you can't necessarily predict them and say, oh, these are the people you're going to go after. There might be certain people that, yes, you're definitely going to connect with. But, but what about that, that kind of broader thing, Those, those other connections that you never would have thought that, that, that would have come from this connection. I, I like that. I. Trying to remember that, like, kind of stretch yourself a little bit almost with those connections. The Camino gives you this opportunity naturally to sit down and converse with, with people that you might never have connected with otherwise. So it's kind of. Of cool to be able to try and do that in your real life, in your business life, in any part of life. Can you connect on some level with someone that you might not think initially would be a connection for you?

Yeah, I love that. It's like we are so, I don't know, maybe trained in a way that to believe that, like, to connect we need to agree, like, to connect, we need to maybe have something. Like, yes, there is the sense of having something in common, but I feel that the way you are sharing is like, it's not visible at first, but then essence to essence, we will always connect. If it's coming from a space of authenticity and then you're maybe connecting to someone that, you know, they don't even speak your language. But the connection is there because you're fully, fully present. Just very quickly, like, it's a funny story, like, I was traveling with my mom somewhere in Italy and we were like, in this beautiful church, and she's like, moving and she doesn't speak any other language besides Portuguese. And I see her from far and she's like. And like having a conversation. And I'm like, oh, you're having a conversation? Did you find a Brazilian or like a Portuguese? And she's like, no, she was from Japan. And we had such an awesome conversation. I'm like, did she speak Portuguese? And she's like, no, only Japanese and mi. But she was for 20 minutes. And she. I don't know how she did that, but then she described the conversation, you know, and it's. If it was only in her head, only what. But that's for me, like, you know what it comes to me, the translation of this connection, like they were speaking different languages, they did not know each other, they had nothing in common besides being in the same space. But yet they built like a different, A beautiful connection in that moment.

I love that. Thank you for sharing that. It absolutely speaks to things like this on the Camino as well. I love that. Yeah.

Well, cool. At this point. Well, if there is anyone on the chat that has any questions for Rebecca, please feel free to drop them in. We'd love to create a little bit of space for that. But in the meantime, Rebecca, obviously we're here on Substack, so I always say it makes it pretty easy. If people are curious about your work, curious to learn more about the Camino, they can reach out to you through your substack. But can you share? Is there anything particular that you might suggest for anyone listening if they might want to learn more about your work or the Camino, like what you might recommend?

Yeah, I mean, yes, first of all, of course, the Camino calls on Substack is, is where I write every Sunday and the Camino calls dot com. And then there are a ton of resources out there now these days. The Camino has become quite popular and that's both a pro and a con. So. So, yeah, there's, there's tons of places to get information. And I think part of the problem is that that can be somewhat overwhelming. So if you're looking to plan a Camino and you want to go out there and look at the resources and all that stuff, that's awesome. You'll find plenty of stuff. Just be aware of who you're getting your information from. So, you know, if it's a 25 year old who walked a Camino carrying their backpack, it's, it's definitely a different experience from, you know, people I work with that are, you know, one of my clients just arrived in Santiago last week. He's in his late 60s. I've got another one, early 70s walking in a couple weeks, so. And there, there are some resources now more and more of folks in this generation that are, that are, you know, sharing their experiences on the Camino as well. And not to say you can't learn from all of these resources, but just to be aware, again, as I said earlier, there's not one way to do this thing and that's what's so wonderful about it. So, yeah, plenty of resources out there. And yeah. And I, I've always said to people, too, if you have questions that I can answer in a post, I'm happy to do that. So. Yeah.

And I feel, I feel this conversation alone, you've dropped a whole lot of, like, really, really useful tips for anyone that, yeah, could be considering something like this for themselves. So, yeah, thank you so much for your generosity and being here with us. We will be, you know, for anyone that's kind of jumped on, on kind of in the middle, we always post a recap summary with the recording of this conversation. So we'll be sharing that shortly after this conversation and we can share that with you as well, Rebecca, in case it might be useful for your people to check out. And yeah, thank you again so much for being here with us today.

Absolutely, guys, thank you so much for having me.

All right.

All right. Well, have a great rest of your day. And thank you all. For whom, all those of you that were able to join us live. Take care.

Bye, everyone.

Bye, Rebecca. Thank you. Sa.