Sacred Business Stories w/ Somatic Therapist Morena Cardoso

So welcome to Sacred Business Stories. This is our weekly Substack Live. This is really where we just have an honest conversation about what it looks like to build a business that aligns with your deepest truth. And today we are joined by Marina Cardoso. Did I, did I get that right? Uh, yeah. Cool. So Marina Cardoso, she's a somatic therapist, writer, founder of Danza Medicina, where she leads immersive movement laboratories exploring the female body. Healing and feminism across 15 countries. So we are super happy to have you here with us. And yeah, thanks for being here.

Thanks for the invitation. Yeah, so glad to be here.

Yeah, it's a, it's an honor for me to have the opportunity to have this conversation with you. Like, I truly admire your work and your authenticity in your message and how you share from your heart. And at least that's how I experience you. And I like to remind people, Joy, like why we create Sacred Business Stories. And it's really to inspire people and give them permission to start from where they are. Sometimes people just see you where you are right now, but they don't know like the transformation that, you know, happened behind the scenes from the minute you decided that's like, that's how I'm going to serve. And then the whole path into where you are right now. So if you could just start like sharing a little bit of like, I know it could be a lot, so you just choose how you're going to take this, but the behind the scenes of like your story when you start like, this is my calling and that's how I want to serve and you know, where you are right now.

Yeah, yeah, it's a super long story, but making it short, I think the most important things are that I was always curious about the body itself. Uh, and also I, I was feeling the word in my body all the time. I was super sensitive all my life long and I didn't know what to do with that. And also I recognized in my path that I was kind of triggering some specific things in women that was a lot about facing the fears, embrace the shadows, and taking off the masks. And sometimes when I didn't know how to do it, it was just a mess because I didn't know properly how to activate those things in a healing way. And so through all my life, I started having contact with different tools that supported me to understand who I was and what I was doing here. And of course it's a choice, but then that was really my curiosity in understanding How we can be in this body, being a woman in this patriarchal world, and how we can really, uh, understand ourselves and make the best of what we can in trying to change the system from, from inside and also to stand for what is needed for us to have a better, more, um, dignified life. And so I I was super lost in a point in time in my life. I was working with hotel management. That was where I come from in my college. And suddenly I figured out that it was actually not for me. And I came back to yoga and to body practices. I traveled to India. And then suddenly I started like having these beautiful synchronicities of meeting people that started like not only giving me the understand or showing me the path, but having these people that I could see as examples of what I wanted to become. And so like this kind of idea of what would be possible to live. Because I didn't have it even in my hip-hop tour where I came from, like nobody was even telling me that this could exist. You know, and so, uh, there was a point in time that I had really to decide that I wanted to be empowered in terms of taking care of my financial life and being dependent because I have this, this also because we came here to teach, to teach where I came here to learn. And so I went through some, um, histories of abusive relationships. And so at a point I decided that I needed to take care of myself even for surviving, you know? And so that was my first like will, my first like desire to take care of myself and my little son to give him what he needed and not asking for permissions to any men or to anyone else. And so, but Danza Medicina itself started, Um, yeah, like 10 years now that I'm doing this work and it's still happening. It's still in process. Uh, I've traveled to so many places and my first interest was to meet the grandmothers, the abuelas, the one who was holding the ancient wisdom to hold sacred spaces for us to remember the memories of ancestry. The old ways, you know? And so after that, after like traveling to many different countries and being with so many different cultures around the world, I understood coming back to Brazil that I was a Latin American woman and a white woman. And so that was a little complicated at the beginning because I was kind of Latin American women, so women of color in other countries, but in Brazil, then I had the privilege of being a white middle class us women. And so I went to a master's degree to understand where I was speaking from and how I would, um, learn how to serve without cultural appropriation and all this very delicate subjects, you know, about healing and spiritual processes. And, uh, yeah, I think this is what came up now for explaining a lot of it. I love it.

And thank you so much for sharing. Um, it's, I just truly appreciate the way you were sharing because it matches my perspective about what creating a business really is. And it's a process of self-discovery. Like it feels to me that your path was never like, oh, I want to go there and I want to help women. Like, I'm like, hey, I want to help myself. And then I want to discover who I am. And then in this process, then at one point you kind of like felt called to share, right?

Yeah, that was kind of this thing, you know, I want to create something that doesn't exist because I need it. Like I need to be with women. I need to dance. I need to make fire and sing around the fire. I need to create sacred spaces for us because I was kind of reaching that and I had that in other places, but it was like the way I'm doing it, it's very personal and it's really like coming from something that I was urging to receive. So it's really beautiful to offer because it nourishes me like first before anything else. And there's a lot of passion in it also because I saw the transformation within myself so I can see the transformation in others and, um, And so I do, like, profoundly believe in what I do, and I think this is the most important thing for, like, to have this ethical compromise of doing something that we truly believe in the word, you know? Right. Yeah.

And, um, like, one of the things that I appreciate about your work, it's because for me, it's one of the best examples of Authenticity. Like, I feel that you are so authentic in the way you share. And Sacred Business, like, the business that we have is actually helping people to embody and go and follow this path of, like, I want to help others because I've been through this transformation and maybe they don't know how to pack that and actually create an offer and then create, like, a structure to support other people. Um, And one of the big things is like, how can I be authentic? Like people struggle sometimes with that because there's the need to fit. There's the need to please. There's the need to not be rejected. And I would love to hear from you, like how, you know, maybe it's unconscious, maybe you don't even know, or maybe you would like, I had to go through this. Uh, so I would love to hear your experience.

Yeah. Sometimes lacks a little bit of filters, I might say. Because I'm super spontaneous. Like, uh, I was kind of born like that. And with time I was kind of learning how to do the opposite, of course, because I was domesticated, right? But then, um, it was kind of, uh, experimenting, like, in a very humble way. I think humbleness is, uh, one very important part of the process because, I mean, I was not really up to be right or to be recognized or to be like, I just wanted to share because I was understanding from my girlfriends that I was not alone in my pain. I was not alone in my guilt, in my shame, in my fears. And once I started naming it and they could say, oh, I feel the same. And I was like, oh, really? And then this creates like, a very powerful bond. And, um, and even with people that don't know me, like I can, I, I believe that people can feel other, each other through resonance. I mean, it's not that I believe that it's like, it's a, it's proven, like it is. Yeah. So I, every time that I see that I'm trying to control the process or the results of it, like I take a step back because I know that I'm going to this automatism of doing things for, because it, it's, It's been working and it's been having a good result, so I keep doing it. And then I give a step back to ask myself, um, why am I doing that again? And usually at those moments I have this update. I have this kind of download, a different way of expressing myself, or maybe even a different pathway. Like, there was a moment in my life where I just stopped Like I went into sabbatical, I call it a sabbatical year. Like I just stopped sharing anything on social media and like I stopped doing any laboratories of dental medicine. I canceled all my agenda and I spent a year and a half studying. For me, this was one of the most courageous things that I've done because I had so much to lose. It was not at the beginning that it was just like, I didn't have money. I didn't know what to do. And I was just like doing and try to see what happened, you know, but I have already like $100,000. Followers, travel like 10 different countries around the world with Dr. Medicine, and suddenly I disappeared. And, um, I think that that is like this very profound compromise with the, like, with the truth behind what I'm doing. And I'm not negotiating with that. And of course that I, sometimes I ask myself, would I have a better result if I would just follow the rules? I mean, the formulas, you know, but I keep asking myself, but I'm not up to try it out because my body doesn't respond well to that. I get very stressed and, uh, I feel like I cannot create. I feel like it's lacking inspiration. And so I have to go back to that place where I don't know what it's gonna be. And then try it out again.

Yeah, that's, that's beautiful. And it's funny, we were on a call with our community today talking about commitment to the path of the heart. And, and I feel like what you just described, described is a perfect embodiment of that. And knowing, um, sounds like in, you said a year, year and a half, that, that was, that was the right moment, you know, for you to take a step back and yeah, just, yeah, it's just really beautiful to hear that. I'm just curious around that, like when you made that decision, was there any, you know, and you, it sounds like, you know, there's definitely awareness of like, okay, well, from an external worldly perspective, I've got these 100,000 followers. I've got people that maybe, you know, I feel they're depending on me to show up a certain way or anything like that. And so, how did you kind of pro— did you have any sort of fear or resistance that came up in that moment? Or how do you, how do you kind of like process through that? Because I think that's something that we talk a lot about with our audiences about how that's like many people when they feel fear or resistance, they feel that that's a sign that something's gone wrong. And we talk about how that's actually perfectly normal. And especially if you're moving towards something that is meaningful and from the heart. And so, yeah, I'm just curious how you related to that and when you in that moment, or if you found yourself in repeat moments like that, how do you kind of, uh, keep yourself moving forward in the way that feels right for you?

Yeah, as I said at the beginning, I'm super sensitive. Like, I feel everything in my body, and I've, I've, I really open space for my body to be guiding me. And so, um, it was not a decision that came from my mind. It was very spiritual. Like, I have a, a profound spiritual practice myself. It's very personal and intimate. I don't share much about that. Um, but I received this calling, I might say. Like, it was something that I couldn't deny. I went through a ritual, a spiritual ritual, because at that time I had lost 4 babies in a row. Like I, I, I went through 2, 3 pregnancies and lost babies and something that it was just telling me that it was not right. I was not healthy and the medicine couldn't explain why I was going through the losses. And I was in through that space of pain, but at the same time, I was pretty much, um, um, healing myself through sharing, like sharing about my pain, my processes of of losing the babies, of going through this very dark moment in my life and going through suffering. And this is something that I was not hiding from anyone. But at a certain moment, there was a wake-up call. Like, there was an alarm that was telling me, like, your body needs more attention, you know, and your life needs more attention, and you need to nourish yourself instead of trying to nourish others all the time. And so At the end of this ritual, specific ritual that I went through, so I spent 2 months camping in my land, just making fire all day long and doing like womb cleansing and like my rituals of tobacco and praying and connecting, you know, with this pain that I was having as a bridge to connect with my spirituality. And that was the answer that I received, like, just go back to take care of yourself and give a break from it. Like, you're not that important. You're not that special. Of course we're special, but you know, like, we are each one special in our own, um, as the forest, you know, we have different species and we have this diversity and this is the importance that I have is to be unique and to be myself and if at that moment I felt like my, my truth was to go back to earth and to become like nourishment for the soil and not be this big, amazing, beautiful tree, then I was just offering my life and myself to that. And so I felt like it was a process of dying in a way, and it was a death of my ego for sure. Because then that image that I have been created for so many years, still like, of course I'm authentic, I'm spontaneous, but of course there is this persona, that as in, like, you know, like my daily life, I'm a super simple person. Like, I'm not even talking much, you know, I'm super shy. And, um, and, uh, I could just like go out of this projection that people had towards me and connect with this very humble, simple, little thing that I am. You know, and, uh, that was such a beautiful thing. And together with that, I went through this research about what I'm doing. So I went through this, um, master's degree in clinical psychology that broke so many truths that I had because I was like defending so many things that actually I figured it out that they, I had to actually, uh, reconsider. My discourse and become more mature in what I was doing. And, um, and of course there was a lot of fear, especially because, yeah, I'm a white middle-class woman, but I come from a family that they are not wealthy at all. So my parents, I, we went through, like, since my childhood, so many challenges, financial challenges. And so my biggest fear was how I would keep paying my bills and surviving in this capitalist world. Not working. And then when I would come back, what would happen? Especially because I love my work. And then I was just kind of having like this, maybe I would even like lose everything. I didn't know how would people would react me coming back after a year and a half. But, but this, I felt like I didn't have choice. I was just like answering to the calling and I, and, and this is something that I trust that when we hear the it's a calling. It's hard to understand what is a calling or not, right? But when you hear that deep, deep calling inside, then everything goes in a proper way. I don't know even if it's a good way, but in a proper way, in a sense that we learn what we have to learn, we grow as we have to grow, and we serve as we have to serve, you know, and yeah.

Yeah. And just listening to your story, I hear, I hear ideas, but I'm just curious if something, you know, you mentioned how it is difficult to hear your calling and you seem like someone who is very tuned in with yourself and your spiritual practices. What advice, you know, what advice would you have for someone if they're having a hard time distinguishing that for themselves from the noise, from, um, you know, different influences that might be in their life?

Yeah, taking that step back and taking, like, it's so, it's, we are so afraid of stopping, right? Because we are such in a performative, um, life all the time. Like, there is always this idea that as much as we do, then we, like, we can, we, we do it and receive it, work hard, play hard, you know, like. Yes, we can, like all this neoliberalism ideal that it's so hard for us to break this contract. And so, and, uh, it's a lot of loneliness also because you see like everybody's like just full on and you're like, oh, is it okay if I just step back? And it feels like a little bit like a loser, you know, like I felt like that many times, like, am I not able to support? Or to just keep going, just to like, why am I not able to just keep going, just keep growing? I'm sabotaging myself. I was asking that many times, but now I do feel like it takes a lot of courage and strength to do that more than just keep going, you know, like, and so I think from that we can break the patterns. If we just keep doing it, if we just keep going, then it's so hard to break the pattern. It's so hard. Like, it's really needed to, I feel like this is my, my, my perspective. Like, I needed to come back to myself to understand different ways of moving through life and like creating new pathways to, to be able to express like in authenticity who I was becoming. Uh, yeah, so giving a step back is like maybe saying no to things that you feel like are important, but just to understand if that's really important or not. Or, um, going beyond this fear of missing out, you know, or comparing yourself or taking out all those tools that we have now to compare ourselves all the time, the likes or the sharings or whatever, you know. And, and, and go back to silence because all these answers are, are inside for sure.

Yeah.

I mean, of course we have like people as you guys that are supporting us to figure it out. I did the quiz that you offer on your website and that was incredible. Really, I was really going through, I'm just, I'm still in that process going through this place of like, Oh, am I going to the right direction? Is it good? Like, what, what should I do next? And then I had the quiz and I was like super, like, I was really surprised to see how many answers I have just by answering the questions. That's super nice. And new questions rising. So there are people who are supporting us to find a way, but at the end, it's from like how your body feels. When you say yes or no to that. And I think we cannot really leave this behind, not negotiate with that.

Yeah. I, uh, and maybe Carolina, that's super cool. I don't know if I knew that you took the Harmony Map, but maybe Carolina has questions about that. But yeah, that's something we're very passionate about in our processes. Uh, and I think there's a lot of ways you can slow down, but even within the context of business, that's what we invite people to do is go back to the foundation, go back to all these assumptions. Many people that come to us, they might have been in business for 7 to 10 years. And when you go into it, you make a lot of assumptions about what you think is true, who you think, how you think you'll feel when certain things are realized and that wheel starts to move. And oftentimes people don't as you, you know, it sounds like you had a literal pause, but people don't create that pause for themselves. And so that's one of the things we definitely do is we ask them to step back and say, hey, like what, you know, if all things were true, what could this look like from a freshman perspective? So yeah, I really appreciate everything that you shared there because all of those things that you described are very common challenges that I feel that our people are challenged by. Yeah, Kellyanne, have you had a chance to look at the HeartMath?

I did. And we kind of had a conversation about it and I, and I just like, um, I just love like having this conversation with you here and with someone that it's so connected to your body and how much I believe that like your business success is connected to that because I don't think success is just an external metric of like I have this much money or this much client or this much, whatever number of events that I do. Like if it's not from here and what is in here, only you know. And what I see as in the work that we do, like we are just mirroring back, you know, because sometimes you can't see what's inside. And then part of the work that we do, like it's embodiment, right? So it's like, if you don't have the ability to feel, It's, this is not going to work. Like we can give you the most beautiful plan, but if it's not like aligned to what you can feel and what's in your heart, it's, it's not going to move forward. Like you, like you said, like the only way you could keep moving forward and creating what you're creating is because you have passion, right? It's because it's like a fire that it's within you. And, um, yeah, like I truly appreciate that. And I have a question. I was, as you decided to pause. How was the coming back? Like, how was the service when it came from your permission to like, hey guys, I did this for myself. And at the end of the day, this business is an evolution of my self-expression too. So like when you got back and you talked to your people, like how, how was it and how, how was like externally well received or not? And then. Your inner experience?

Yeah, I get a little emotional with this question because that was such a beautiful surprise. Because, uh, actually what happened in this one year and a half that I wrote a book and I wrote my master's degree and I, and I had a baby finally, like this experience went through in a very good way without any treatment. I just needed give myself time. So I came back. I remember one year and a half later, my baby was 40 days. And I look at my husband and I said, you know what, I feel like I'm ready. And he was like, oh really? He knew how important it was for me. And I was not kind of preparing myself for coming back. I was just like waiting for like my body again, you know, like to feel, like to feel in my body that I was ready. And, uh, I posted, like I just went to Instagram and I made a post and that was me with this, like, 9-month belly with a mask because I, it's still taking time for myself to put my face on the social media again. And, uh, and then, and then the, the, the text was something about like, we need to, in Portuguese was, pra morrer é preciso, pra renascer é preciso saber morrer. So for reborn, we need to learn how to die. And then I have 15,000 likes. And that was really surprising because I'm like, oh shit, they're still there. And of course, after this dopamine of the first post, then what happened is that people was very used to a way of me to express myself that it was super different. After, with who I became. And so some people didn't like my new version. And some new people came and, uh, some others grew with me, which was really beautiful. Like I have women there following my work. I don't even like this word following, but this expression is not really, but they're walking together with me for 10 years now. And I see how they are becoming more mature and how I am becoming more mature also. And so of course there was this fear of like negotiating with the old Morena and the new Morena and how I can get this bridge because we were not doing this together. Like I just disappeared and I came back with a totally different version. Like in the way I was speaking, of course I was for 2 years in like university. So my language, even like my tongue was a little bit like, um, like with this new information, you know? So I didn't really know how to share, how to explain what I was going through, or how, like, the things I've learned, I didn't have, like, how, like, I had to learn again. And even, like, Instagram changes so much and so fast that I, I had to update myself with that and feeling a little bit, a little bit old, like a little bit analogical, like doing that thing. And, but it was, was quite hard. I might say it's still being challenging. Because sometimes I ask myself, what if, like, what would happen if I would continue, you know, like if I wouldn't stop. And sometimes, like, especially when I'm in PMS, like in this moment of my cycle that I'm criticizing myself a little more, like I'm really like, oh, Morena, why did you do that? Really? Like, and now I have to start over. But I, I, again, like again and again, I'm remembering myself that I became a much better person after that. And I am like super proud that I had the courage of doing it. And now I'm kind of still like, maybe it's a process for like a life process to understand how to express myself. Like I'm changing all the time and I am like always asking myself like this, this is matching with who I am right now or not. So it's just still a work in progress.

Yeah, I really appreciate you saying that because there is this myth of being ready, right? That people like, I'm not ready to do this. I'm not ready to, and I don't think we are ever ready for anything. Like we just, some have the courage to just like I'm here and like, there's like, I feel maybe ready to say yes to my heart. That's kind of like the way I see it. And then allow the messiness to be as it is in the outer world. But, um, as we are constantly like, and we are like in this format, the way we are working, like it's been like almost 3 years right now, but I feel that I'm always like constantly asking the question, like, who am I in this moment? Like, how am I serving? Like, is it The way we are doing things is still aligned with, you know, the container that I'm holding for myself, that I'm allowing this to come through me. And it's, you know, like we have the right to change, right? Like, and then if you want to come together, you come.

And I feel like people get, I, what I, what I observed that it was super interesting is that people get a little bit afraid of people that change. It's like, oh, she's out of control. And of Of course I'm out of control. Come on. This is what I'm doing for working. Like I'm supporting women to like, to be indomesticated. Yeah. And then of course I'm not here to, to, you know, for people reveal what I'm gonna do next. Of course not. Like it's not about this, but also I feel like there is this image that comes, uh, in my mind when you're speaking that It's like me, like going back and like, there is like this big hill where like, you know, this empty space in front of me and I have to run and I have to like, but, but first I have to go back a step back and then I, I, I will stay, look at it like, okay, this is a good distance. And then I breathe and I have my, like my heart beating, like it's strong. And then I have fear, a lot of fear. And I feel a lot of insecurity. Am I going to fall? And I'm going to be able to do that? Am I going to jump? And then there's this moment when there's fear, but there's also excitement. And then I love this sensation, you know, like there's fears and excitement as well. Yes. Yes. You know, like that you don't think much. You just go because it's a lot of energy. I think these are the moments when we're ready. And so vitality is something that we might work on ourselves all the time, like a spiritual, the spiritual path and to have ourselves healthy and living with like delight and pleasure. Because this is what gives us impulse to take the risk and like, okay, I don't know what's going to happen, but, uh, whatever. Like I am, I'm super willing to see what's going to happen. Go to the unknown, you know, like that's this excitement. We feel super alive when you do that. It's like, I cannot live without this. You know, that's super boring.

I love, yes, I love that. I love the way you just described that whole thing. And it's almost like a process of alchemy because I, I've talked about this on the show a lot, like that, that moment where the fear and the excitement come together. It used to earlier in my life, it used to feel almost like a, a raging fire in a way that was very uncomfortable. And now it feels more like a tickle, and it's like a tickle that's kind of like pulling me forward. And, uh, and yeah, it's, it's almost, uh, it's almost become— and I don't know if that's up to you— it's almost become my guidance in the sense of like when I feel that tickle, that's like, okay, here we go, this is like the next, this is the next thing to explore. And yeah, and what's evolving.

Yeah. Also, we must be careful for not getting addicted to that because it's a little bit stressing, especially with aging. I feel like I'm 40 now and I, I I don't have like that energy as I had before, like to take everything in a breath, you know, like to just to stay like in this tension, like it's, it's tiring me a little bit. And so now also I am like, right now I probably, this is a question that you're gonna make, but right now I feel like I'm not in a super moment on my life that I feel like I'm super connected to what I'm doing. And I feel like this super excitement, like it's not, I'm like creating resources. For doing a bigger project, like the biggest of my life. And I'm just doing what I know that it works for myself. Sometimes it's a little bit tiring. Sometimes it's a little bit boring, but I am now mature enough to hold space for that and to understand that in long term it's going to work. And this is like, I'm so grateful that I'm growing older and understanding that, that I have time in my life that I don't need anything like now. So, yeah.

Yeah, I think the way you said it's just perfect because, uh, it's like pure wisdom, right? Like we, I think there is a stage where we need this like sense of like aliveness all the time. And it's almost like maybe like when you're like 20s or 30s or something like this, and then you learn that that energy creates, but it doesn't sustain. And if, right. So, but then when you're kind of like, oh yes, I'm I'm getting more mature and I'm growing older and I'm kind of like building something that is sustainable that I don't need to keep like, it requires focus. It requires you to slow down and to do like exactly like the boring things that works, but you know, it might not give you that hit of like fire, but what motivated this, it was the fire, right? At least that's the way I— it came the fire and now you're kind of like I need to sustain this. And, and I think it's, um, well, it's maturity. It's, um, it's wisdom that allows you to sit with that thing that it's not as cool and still enjoy the process in a way.

Yeah. I might say that I have difficulties too, that, because I'm an Aries with Sagittarian, it's super hard for me, but I see like, it's like when we make the fire and we are super excited and put like this very, like these little pieces of like you would, you know, and like it was just doing that, like nourishing the fire all the time. And then there is this moment in our life that we have like this bigger project. We need more structure, even emotional, financial structure. And so we take this, like this big piece of wood and sit and observe the fire for a bit. It's calmer. Sometimes it's not that exciting.

Yeah.

But there is a, the vision, the vision that comes behind. And gives a direction in persistency, like being persistent to keep doing it every day. And maybe in 2 years I'm gonna have a result of that.

Yeah, I love that you described that way because we've been, you know, and that this is a thing, you know, especially now with all the distraction and AI is making it even worse, like this constant pivoting to a new thing. And that, that is an addiction of kind of following the dopamine in a way. And, um, and I've been talking a lot about this difference between like iteration and like a hard pivot. And too many hard pivots can, you know, it could feel exciting at first, but it can become very exhausting. And I was, you know, even with the Harmony app, we were just talking about this to where we are, I'm obsessed about iterating within that. Like I think we're on our 13th version of that in the last year because it's always rather than being like, oh, we need to reinvent and it's a whole new framework or it's a whole new way of attracting people. It's like, no, like there's so many layers that we can unpeel in that, you know, from the questions and the language patterns and the psychology and the order. There's just— and so it's that level of kind of focus. And I love what you said about the vision behind it because that's the way that we feel too, is that vision is consistent. And then it's like, okay, how can we kind of hold the pose and just keep, keep holding steady? And yeah, it's kind of boring because sometimes it's like, okay, I really want to look at this covering that for the 14th time in a row, or would I just wanna create something completely new? And yeah, I think the balance is in, in finding, building structures that allow space for both, you know? And, and, and, and yeah, it sounds like that's what you're, you're doing for yourself. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And people that looks from outside, they don't see like nothing. Like you're doing nothing. You're just doing the same shit. You know, like, but behind and under, there's a lot of things happening. And that's how nature works also. Like, I always like to think about my, my, like, Danza Medicine as this entity, as this, um, project, as nature, you know, like how it can be, uh, resilient and through diversity and cycles and, and respect of the cycles of it. And so. Like we don't see much of what is going on and of course it's frustrating sometimes, but yeah, demands a lot of focus and discipline.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, um, shifting just a little bit, but I'm just curious, you know, as someone who, yeah, seems very self-aware, you've done something that, you know, whether it's the right metric or not, you've done something that many people desire, right? This idea of having 100,000 followers or anything like this. And you've also, it's clear that you knew kind of when you needed to step back and have that self-awareness and then how to kind of come back into your work. And I'm just curious, this, like many people struggle, we talked about authenticity, but beyond authenticity, just making like meaningful connections online when they're sharing their message from the heart. Many people are challenged and struggle by this. And I, hear this all the time. People say, hey, I'm beautiful when I'm sharing my message and I'm sharing space in person or I'm out with people in real life, but then I come online and it's just like I can't seem to make this work for me. And yeah, I'm just curious if there's any advice you might give for people to how you've made that work for yourself and how you approach connection for somebody who's wanting to share more consistently.

Yeah, I need advice on that too, actually. I struggle a lot with social media. Like, honestly, it seems to be easy, but it's not. Um, you know, like there, I was talking to a friend yesterday that, um, there was a day, it's just like an example that I was just really mad about my partner. He did something that I was really angry about it and There was this friend of mine that came to my place and said, oh, maybe you should bathe yourself with rose water. And I was like, uh-uh, of course. And then he left and I was like, shit, of course not. I need to keep this anger because this is gonna create some different relationship with him. And I need to keep this and see where it's gonna take us. Of course, you know, I didn't wanna fight, but I knew that this uncomfortable situation sensation that I had inside of me was taking us somewhere else. And then I wrote about this, like one single phrase, which was something about like, drink chamomile tea or bath yourself with rose or, um, massage yourself with lavender oil, something like that. And that had like 25,000 likes. But then I was just, and then I sent to this friend of mine, just, just making a joke. And like, for me, this is really something that I, like, this very fast insights that I have. And I take note of things all the time. Sometimes I wake up, this is super tiring. I wake up 3 AM with like a, like a whole idea in my mind and I write it. And sometimes I don't even sleep because I have this, like this downloads and I take I take it very seriously, like, because as I'm opening myself as a channel, then whenever it comes, I need to, okay, thank you for, you know, because otherwise I believe spirituality is going to get tired of us. Like, okay, I'm sending all this and you're busy doing other stuff, you know. So I really believe that these insights that I have, I take them very seriously and I don't judge them too much after all. Sometimes I go to my land here. I have 22 hectares of land. And I just camp there, make fire to stay by myself for many days. And I write many texts that maybe would become posts after all. And when I come back home, I open my Instagram and like, I'm not gonna post that. No, that's not gonna work. And I'm like, you will. Like, I force myself to do that because I know that the critical factor is influencing in saying no to that and establishing a lot of filters, but Taking this raw message, like, give, gives, makes something, like, alchemize something different. But then, like, I don't want to expose myself so much. And I have, like, my idea of where I want to take my work. Like, where I want to take Danza Medicina. Because if I would just give to people what I know that people want, then I would just serving, like, a purpose that You know, it's like the dopamine purpose. It's not like my, my deepest thing. And so sometimes I create like materials for posting that I know that like it's going to give like 20, 20 likes. I know that it was 20,000, but some, some ones are 20 likes and I'm okay with that because I am being very faithful with myself. And I feel like this is a very healthy balance for me because I'm not just giving what I know that works for, you know, for granted, like for guarantees, but really giving it a direction. And so of course it's frustrating because things, there are things that I really want to share and people just don't get involved or they don't, Like, they don't get interested. They don't have time for that. They don't even understand what I'm saying. But they're important for me because they, like, I'm creating a, I'm locating myself. I'm finding a position for my own work where I am in the world and what I'm thinking about things, you know? And I, so. I say that I need advices on that too, because it's, um, I, I don't know if I could make, if I could create a balance between one and another, but for now it's been like this a little bit.

Yeah.

That's beautiful. And yeah, I hope, uh, I think you just created your Substack account maybe to come have this conversation with us, but maybe we'll get lucky and you'll, you'll start hanging out over here a little bit more because I think you would find your, uh, I think you would find your message very well received here. It's a very friendly, beautiful place for creators. So yeah, it'd be wonderful to see you here more. And I'm very curious now. I know your work is not directly related towards me, but I definitely resonate with everything you've been sharing here with us today.

Thank you. Actually, there are men who gets to get in contact with the things that I'm sharing. And I feel like it's super useful for all of us because it's not, it's not about women itself, but it's against patriarchy. And we are all victims, I might say. Of course, I like, I don't, I don't like this word victim, but we are all suffering from that ourselves. Of course, in a different way, men and women, but Uh, yeah, so you're super welcome to, to get in contact with, to participate in your way. Like, but, um, yeah.

Well, uh, well, to that point, I know we're kind of coming up on time, but, um, you know, if someone, you know, and we'll share the, we'll share the replay out, uh, we'll put a nice recap of this and share it with our audience for a lot of folks that weren't here live, but For anyone that is here with us or is listening later, if they've heard something that kind of stokes their curiosity, you know, what would be a recommended first step or anything you might suggest they do? Is it follow you on Instagram? Is there any other, other things that you might suggest they check out as it relates to your work right now?

Um, no, no, Instagram, there's a lot of things and I am, uh, this year, 2026, I am not traveling that much. Because I am super focused in my big project here in Bahia. But I have also some international labs of dance medicine around the world. So if anyone feels like living the full experience, like that's the best way to get to enter in contact to my work. I can speak well, but honestly, I do much better when I'm silent and just holding space. So, yeah.

And is there anything you can share about your project or is it super, uh, top secret at the, at this, at this moment?

Yeah, actually I am, um, I am creating resources for, uh, building my own center here in Bahia for researching, for dancing, and for, um, um, for art, for art residency. And I have this land with, um, 3 friends. Girlfriends, 22 hectares of Amazon, of Atlantic forest with 1 kilometer of pure water and river. And, um, yeah, so it's the first time that I'm gonna build up something in my life, um, materially, like, and, uh, it's, it's been super challenging, but I do believe that this is like what Dança Medicina and life is calling me to do, like having a space where I can where we, we can feel safe to explore and to express ourselves to, and to be deep in contact with nature and, and do longer, do longer labs, like longer retreats, because usually when I travel, I do maximum 5-day retreat. And here I can do a much longer and profound work. So, so yeah, that's not a big secret. Like I'm talking about this for so many years. To everyone because I'm not the kind of person that hides the dreams. Like, I'm really sharing because I do believe that people are wanting this as I want. I'm not afraid of jealousy or this kind of stuff. Like, I'm just saying, oh, you know, I have a dream. Being very honest with my ambitions, you know. And so this creates a compromise that, okay, so let's wait some years from now. What's going to happen? So feel super invited to come to Bahia and see this place. It's super amazing.

Yes, please. It's on my list. I haven't been to that. I'm actually, I'm moving to Rio this weekend, but, uh, yeah, I haven't been to the north, so I'd love to explore.

You're gonna love it for sure. Yeah. Oh, nice. Yes.

Thank you so very much for creating time. We spoke last year and I was just like, yay, it's coming. So I was really excited to have you here. Here.

I love your message.

I love the way you show up, you know, for, um, well, not only women, but especially women. I think there is something that's very important for us to stand up in our own power and to be in touch with our body that's kind of guiding us 100% of the time, all the time. We just got distracted, you know, with all the noise out there. And I think the work that you do is like extremely like needed. So I really, really, really appreciate your presence here. I'm excited about your project in Bahia. It's on my list to participate in one of your labs. Um, so I'm going to for sure create space for that so I can meet you in person as well.

So I appreciate you. And I'd like to say that, uh, everything that I entered in contact, like I read all the emails that was explained about the results of the quiz that I've done and That's super amazing. Please keep doing it. And if there's anything that I can do for supporting it also, like, I, I, it's brilliant. It's so smart. Like, the way you got to understand where I was and explain what was the, the issue, that was really, like, mastering and amazing. You support me a lot. Thank you so much for that. Thank you so much for this work you've been doing and keep doing it.

Thank you so much.

Thank you so much.

Thank you. All right.

Thanks for trusting and inviting me. Yeah. Thank you.

And thank you everyone for watching us. And then we shared, I can share the replay with you if ever you want to share, you know, with your, with your people as well.

Yes. Thank you. Okay. Thank you.

Ciao for now.

Bye. See you next time. Bye-bye.