Sacred Business Stories with Landon Poburan

All of these things and just nothing ever worked. And I've just like tried to keep going one step at a time, one foot in front of the other. And that's really what I try and showcase through everything that I talk about. Anytime I'm talking about marketing, I'm always trying to pull it back to like, you know, like, we're like, how did you grow on substack? And I'm like, I didn't grow from for 10 months. So like, I don't know what the quick strategy is to quickly grow your substack. Like, I'm not the person to ask, but I know that I kept going and over time I improved and through the consistent effort, I started to see success to where now I have almost 4,000 subscribers. And it's that, that through line of like consistency, trying to maintain and like strip away the stuff that doesn't fulfill us. Not being afraid to like pay pivot and being, okay, that, okay, I'm gonna, I was on LinkedIn for two years and then now I'm gonna go to substack and that means I'm kind of starting from zero and that's okay. Like there's nothing wrong with it. We don't need to just chase money and all of these kind of like egocentric and ego driven things that society makes us believe is the definition of success and trying to redefine that for ourselves. So that's kind of really what I try and help people with. That was a fairly long winded answer to your question, but I think that kind of encapsulates it.

It's very, I love hearing like your journey and for me, like, it's just beautiful the way you were describing because you're like, oh, I've done so many things and like so many business and like the fear of like change, it seems that like, maybe it is there, but you also like follow like, you know, oh, LinkedIn is there, so I'm going there. Now there's something else. And then you just move with the flow. And also like this, you mentioned something about like having what is being asked from you right now. You know, like life is inviting you to stuff that maybe you didn't plan, maybe it wasn't like on your business plan. And it feels that you follow that. And I connect a lot with the idea of like sacred business. You know, like it's, we always say that like your business is serving your evolution and your evolution is serving your business. And it feels that the way you were describing you embodied this very well. So like for people listening and just for us to get to know you more. Like, what is it? Like, how do you relate to Sacred Business you shared with us earlier? Like, a beautiful definition. And then this, like, go with the flow, but with intention. How do you relate to that? You know, like, just keep going with your story. But like, yes, what life is asking for me right now? And then who am I in this new context? And now I'm, you know, if there's something else that will show up, I'm sure you're going to go into this new thing, to this new platform and you're going to try, you know, because you're not like, afraid of. Keep showing up consistently.

Yeah. So when I think of Sacred Business in the community I shared, to me, I believe the definition stems from the ability to just truly love and be passionate about what we're doing to generate an income professionally. Now, I think a very key component of that is that that income doesn't necessarily need to be a specific number. And I think that's where culture really starts to pull us away from that passion or turns what was a passion into something that we just dread doing. So that's always what I'm trying to pull myself towards is what am I feeling called to do? What do I feel lit up by doing and not being afraid to make big changes to allow that to happen? I have worked with far too many people that are just chasing money that absolutely hate what they do every single day. And you can see it, they're burnt out, they don't want to do stuff, they don't want to show up. And it's just because of this massive misalignment. So for myself, like my wife and I opened, I effectively switched careers in about 2014, 2015, from being like 100% in marketing. I had a company called Category Code. I had a small team running this little agency in my hometown. And I got certified as a personal trainer. And my wife and I opened up a gym. And then it was growing. And then about a year and a half later, we took out a $500,000 loan and we built out a 6,000 square foot personal gym in our city. And we spent a lot of money and a lot of time on that investment. And it was probably about two to three years later where it was just draining the life out of us. And did not enjoy doing it. I didn't enjoy having a team of 10 people. I didn't enjoy having a $15,000 utility bill every single month. Like, and then we took on $100,000 worth of debt to just close that business, walk away from it and just go towards something that was more fulfilling for us. We knew it wasn't what we wanted to do. And that's probably one of like my pivotal stories. I've written about it a ton, but it's just that constant being okay with. It's just like an acceptance, like accepting what's going to happen because of this decision. It's like the consequences, but it's a very like negative word, consequence. But you know, and now I went into, you know, I was doing business coaching and then I kind of started to pursue doing more paid advertising. I've been open to kind of full time contracts with agencies and then kind of leaving that behind and being just very fluid. But it's not like split second decisions. Like it's not like, oh, there's this new thing, I'm completely changing my business. It's a lot of what I do is I write notes, lots of notes, sticky notes everywhere, and I try and just like follow patterns of when I keep coming back to the same things, then it's like these are signals and just allowing myself to try and be as open as possible to what these things are. Things just kind of, I feel, have a way of naturally presenting them to us when we're right. That's why I'm such a believer in consistency. Because I believe along that path of consistent effort, we're going to seek improvement, we're going to seek that next thing just by consistently taking that action. So for myself, I'm always trying to get closer to that. So it wasn't too long, it wasn't that long ago. And I think it was a little bit before probably end of last year. I was looking at kind of like one of the goals I had written down, which was like, do these certain tasks a day, you know, end work by a certain time, hit a certain income. And I'm like, I've done all of these things and I'm like, I still feel like I'm still striving towards something. So it's like that was just a sign that there was something missing. And I was starting to realize that it was a misalignment of what I was just doing for my work. Yes, I was working a certain amount of hours, yes, I was making a certain amount of money, but I wasn't truly fulfilled by what I was doing for work. And this is still a journey I'm in the transition of, but I'm like, okay, well this isn't what I want to do because there's certain limitations and restrictions of what I'm doing. So now 2025 is about this slow pivot of adjusting my primary source of income to be more in alignment with what I truly am passionate about doing in this phase of my life. And so I think the big thing that I try and portray to other entrepreneurs is that this is just not a one and done thing. It is a constant journey. It can change tomorrow. It's something that we just have to constantly be open to, constantly be willing to accept and just follow and see where it takes us. Because at the end of the day, the biggest regret isn't I didn't make more money. It's I didn't enjoy what I was doing. So trying to define success for ourselves, whatever that means, if it's spending more time with our family, doing certain things, traveling to certain places in the world, and then creating a business that allows us to fulfill all of those needs in our life.

Absolutely. And like this, it's very powerful. And I think that sometimes people misunderstand that this process of clarification happens when you take action like that. You need to experiment yourself doing that thing, you know, because the idea of something not necessarily is something, right? So you got to go to the process. You got to go and open the gym to then realize that, you know, because then you could have had that idea forever. And like, oh, I wish I had done that, you know, but now you can. Like, I did it, and it was just not for me. So it's like, not failure. Nothing wrong. Was just like. And experimentation. So, yeah, like, this is. That's the journey, right? There's no, no other way.

And I find the same thing shows up even just in the act of writing. Like, as I write, I'm coming across new frameworks and coming across new concepts, and my new product is, like, shown to me as I'm writing or as I'm asking a question to my community. And it's just this action. Just by doing things, we're shown the next thing that we need to do, you know? Like, I think it was a message I sent to Phil. I was like, I want to get your feedback on this. Like, that just dropped in. Like, as I was writing, I was like, oh, this is a thing. And even. Even yesterday, I went through and I was, like, working on, like, developing a title for an article that I was writing for Substack. And I'm, like, going through this process, and I like, plugged stuff in, checked them in. These, like, graders, did some stuff in ChatGPT had it like, how does this compare to like my top ranking titles that I wrote in 2024? And I was like, oh, this is a really good title. And I was like, oh, that's literally like a five step process that worked really well. I can follow this every single time I want to do it in the future. And then to me, it's like, now that I've gone through that experience, now I have the ability to go and teach others. And that's literally all I'm trying to do on this journey now is like, I've made a lot of mistakes, I've suffered a lot, I've had a lot of tears, it's cost me a lot of money. And now I can take those experiences and now I can share them through the written word, I can share them through lives and podcasts. And that's truly what fills me up. And that's what I'm just trying to do more of.

For those of you just joining us, this is Sacred Business Stories. Today we're joined by Landon Pogon. So I've seen a lot of people join, but what we're really here talking about is what this idea is to build a business that aligns with, with your deepest truth and, and this concept of what we call sacred business. So Landon's been sharing beautifully how he relates to that. And one of the things I wanted to ask you about next, Landon, was like, I love this story and I've heard the story before about your gym experience, but I would imagine that that whole experience from choosing to take on the $500,000 to choosing to then realize and recognize that this wasn't for you, it and be willing to trust yourself enough to take on an additional $100,000 to kind of get yourself out of that situation would bring up a lot of fear and resistance for most people. And this is the. One of the things that we talk about a lot and we like to convey to our audience is that it's perfectly normal to have these types of fears and resistance to do the things that we feel are going to be moving us forward towards our most meaningful work. And so I'm curious for you, like now, and I know and you've also mentioned you're kind of in this transitory transition phase. Like, how is the fear of resistance showing up for you today? And you know, for people that might be curious and looking for tips themselves, how do you kind of work with that on a, on a daily basis to keep yourself, keep yourself moving forward?

Yeah. Such a great Question. I made a couple notes of this before we were chatting because I figured this was going to pop up on a day to day basis. I would say now I would say that I experience a lot of self doubt in like my own personal capabilities. So things like always being the expert in the room. I found myself just with certain work that I was doing, there was such an energy drain from the mask that I was putting on to always be the person with the answer, to always be presenting like an expert. I pride myself as being a fairly strong communicator. Like I'm not, I'm a, I'm off the charts introvert. So like in public I'm super quiet, I keep to myself. But when I'm on a call with a client, I'm usually pretty good at, you know, making them feel safe, making them feel seen and like communicating things effectively. But I'm always trying to be the expert, which is difficult because I'm putting so much pressure on myself to always have the answers. So there's always this fear of if I get a question that I don't have the answer to or something happens that I don't have a fix, it's not a problem I can immediately solve. Even in like personal life, like you can't solve every problem. There's not just like this box you can check a screw you can tighten to make every little problem go away. So there's a lot of kind of like fear and scarcity that kind of comes in, in there. Also there's been a lot of stuff that I've noticed over the last year of when I'm working with people in a whatever capacity is consulting or clients. And if I feel like a misalignment with my personal beliefs and what they're doing, I've noticed that start to rise up and cause more internal conflict with me more in the last year than I kind of ever did before. And I work with a lot of people that are able to kind of compartmentalize what they're doing. Like you know, you work with somebody that has completely different political beliefs than you or you work with somebody that all they want to do is like very capitalistic, they want to make money and you're like more heart centered and more driven by fulfillment and there's just this kind of disconnect of that's caused internal conflict. So for myself there still is a lot of fear with going into something that I don't necessarily feel like an expert in. I grew up an athlete. I was always like the best person on the team. I kind of learned from a very young age that, you know, when you're the best at stuff, good things happen. People like you, you get recognition, you get trophies, you get medals, people compliment you, people talk with you, you're picked first. And that I feel through a lot of self reflection that has kind of led me to a path where I hesitate to do things and take risks. Stepping into something where I don't feel I hold that. So that's always been something that I'm trying to work through and be okay with now. Trying to work through that on a daily basis. I would say I was asked this on a podcast not that long ago. They're like, what's the most. The thing that's helped you in your business the most? I'm like, therapy. Therapy and self worth. Because in these businesses that we're all running, like there were entrepreneurs and solopreneurs and we can't separate ourselves from our business. It goes hand in hand. We don't manage a team of a hundred people. We are the business effectively. So the more that I grow as a person, the more it's going to allow me to embrace those risks. So therapy also just really trying to ground myself into these things. Like, you know, being patient with the journey, trusting the path that I'm on, focusing on just like encouraging myself. Like, I am enough. Like, I do know enough. Just like reminding myself of these things. I started to keep kind of like a journal of wins. Just this, like when things are kind of going off the deep end and I need to like hit that big red alarm button, I have something to kind of go reinforce myself with. And I put little things like, I'm on this live today with you guys. Like, you asked me to be here. Like that's a win for me. Or like somebody featured my article in one of their articles on Substack. Like, that's a win. Just these little, these. Just these little things that can be these reminders of like, doesn't matter how small it is. Like, I posted today. You know, I showed up today, I didn't want to meditate, but I meditated for two minutes anyway is what I normally meditate for days, 30, 30 minutes. Just these like little practices have been just very monumental for me. And then there's like the kind of like the baseline things for me, like daily exercise, huge for kind of like my mental health and being able to kind of clear my mind and do stuff. Just this constant kind of putting myself in uncomfortable situations. But not like I'm not like Diving off the deep end. Like, I'm not crazy. Like, I do a lot less than people think I do. It's just difficult for people to see from the outside. Like daily meditation, you know, therapy, you know, talking my, my partner's ear off when I need to. Just a lot of little things that we just have to be okay with. Things sometimes just take the time that they take. You know, I've been a believer in. I used to think, like, everything could be fixed, everything could be solved. And now I'm like, okay, well, these fears, these resistances that pop up probably aren't just going to disappear. They're probably something that are going to continue to recur. And it's more a part of me arming myself with the tools to be able to move through it. And over time, I'll probably be able to recognize it a little quicker, move through it a little bit faster, but they're still going to come up. And it's that acceptance of like, that's not a bad thing. Like sometimes these might be stopping me to like, have me like, realize, like, I might need to course correct. Like, these might be small acts of resistance in myself to put me onto a better path. And there's no shame in feeling that fear. And it's like somebody might never feel it. Somebody might move through it in a day and it might take me a week, it might take me a month to go through, you know, when something comes up for me. And always trying to remind myself that, like, that's okay. And it sounds so easy to just kind of say it on a podcast, but it's like, it's a lot more difficult than practice.

But it seems that you have a very good foundation on your daily life that supports that. Because I love your clarity about the fears and about like, the struggles and all of like, oh, wait, I feel that and I see, see that and. But it doesn't feel that. It stops you from moving. Like, you still go, am I wrong? Like, it feels to me that, like, oh, yes, I'm uncomfortable, or I notice this, but you're still there, you're still putting yourself out there. And would you say that the daily practice that you do, like, over time are building your ability to keep showing up and because it's not a one, a one day meditation, it's not a one, you know, one day therapy session. So would you say that, like, the consistency on those things helps you to keep showing up the way you are right now?

Yeah. 100. I would say I also try and strip things back to like their simplest form. There's a. An author and his. Oliver Berkman he referenced in his believe it was meditation for mortals. And it's like a tiered system kind of like, good, better, best, in a sense, some paraphrasing. But for me, when I think of like, let's use writing, for example, I've never been able to write a thousand words a day, which is like the gold standard for like, when the people are teaching writing, it's like a thousand words a day. For me it's like, write like if for me I might write seven words, I might punch something into like a note, like. But for me, I'm showing up in the way that I want to show up. And some days I might write a thousand words, some days I might write for an hour, some days I might write twice if I'm feeling great. But I try and construct the things that drive me forward in a way that I can do it on my worst days because then I can still make this incremental movement forward. And a very pivotal moment was when my therapist recommended 4,000 weeks by Oliver Berkman. And his concept of radical incrementalism has just been really, really imperative to me. So radical incrementalism, it's like, it doesn't matter what it is, just like these micro improvements are always going to be better than trying to make take big swings and start and stop. So that's been really, really big for me. I reference it kind of as minimal, viable habits. So for me, I just want to write. I want to do Spanish every day because I'm trying to learn Spanish. But that's not like, yes, I could have a teacher and I could do all these things. But if I do like two minutes on duolingo, like, yeah, I'm keeping my streak going. For meditation, I like to meditate twice a day. But some days it doesn't happen. Some days it's five minutes. Some days it's like five deep breaths and a couple mantras. But I'm still doing those things. They're still pushing me forward. I do think that a little bit of my ADHD and like, I'm a creature of habit and routine, so I do think that that helps a little bit. But like, some of these things, I've just realized that I. Before I knew what I was doing, a lot of things had kind of fallen into place that supported my overall, well, being. Like, I've always been an athlete. I've always been active and wanted to work out. And then I was always a Morning person. So my workouts are always happening in the morning. And then, like, a year or two ago, I'm listening to, like, John Rate, Dr. John Rady, talking about ADHD and neurodiversity, about how daily activity is so important and how when you work out first thing in the morning, you have, like, an increased level of focus for, like, one to two hours afterwards. And I'm like, well, that's probably makes sense why I always feel great in the morning, and I feel like crap if I don't work out first thing. So I think just all of these little things contribute to just kind of keeping myself in, like, a really good structure. But there's times where I might go two weeks with, like, meditating for two minutes, but I'm just like, I know that it's gonna come back in the back of my head, even if it's not present. But that's taken a lot of time to where kind of like, these states of depression or kind of like these phases or cyclical nature of things where they don't derail me like they used to, where there's like, you're numbing and you're MIA and you're just, like, you're withdrawn for, like, weeks now. The baseline is still there, even if I'm having to take a step back, even if my writing feels like absolute garbage. But I'm like, they're brainstorming a post. So it's. Yeah, it's just. It's taken a lot of efforts to kind of put in these little things and then also trying to be as kind to myself as possible, because at the end of the day, they're still going to come up, and there's been a lot of. A lot of work on acceptance around that. I love that.

And you're. Yeah. You've been getting lots of. I don't know if you can see the chat going by. You've been getting lots of positive feedback in the chat. And for everyone watching, like, we're. We got one more question for Landon here, and then we're gonna. If. If he has a little time, we'll open it up for. For questions. How are you on time, Landon? You got.

I can be here all day. So we're good.

Cool. So. So the last thing we wanted to touch on was kind of. And it's interesting because I identify as a introvert as well, but I somehow find a way to get out there and put myself out there. And I feel like you. Like, it's the way you present even on this call you're very natural and you have this really authentic way of connecting, I feel. So I think this is one of the biggest challenges many of the people in our audience face is like, how to kind of create this authentic connection online specifically. A lot of people that are used to doing things in person, but then they get online and everything feels a little bit more alien, a little bit different. And so this, actually, this came up on one of our coaching calls yesterday. In our sacred Growth Club community. People are asking about just authentic communication strategies. And so I'm just curious for you if you had like one idea, one message, one tactic, one thing that's worked really well for you to kind of just create, create a nice, nice way of connecting with people. Would love to hear it.

One, one thing. I'm way too long.

Constraints, way too long.

Something that was pivotal for me was this journey of self discovery and understanding myself better. So if I were to give people one thing, that's probably what I would say. That the journey to being able to be out there and authentically connect with people, I think starts with being able to understand who you are, how you best communicate, understanding. Like, we all have quirks. Like, I can't look at the chat while I'm talking to you. It's not gonna happen. I've learned that I used to do so much like, and I think today I'm like, I don't know how I used to do those things, but it, like, it just burned me out because it wasn't who I was. Authentically sitting on a call and not providing my, my opinion. If I disagree with something like, that's not who I am, like, I'm going to share what my thoughts are. If I think you're doing something that I don't think is in your best interest, based on what you've told me, I'm going to share that with you. Not everybody likes to hear it, but just these little things of like, I rarely make eye contact in conversation. I've noticed that, you know, if I'm in a social setting, I'm probably going to retreat just understanding who I was. There was a pivotal book, Unmasking Autism was one for me that was recommended to me and I read it and it was like the first time that I was like, oh, this is me. And I went down like this entire rabbit hole of books on ADHD and the history of neurodiversity and all of these things is really trying to understand who I was. And then being like, oh, well, this is why I like writing, because I can think through my thoughts better. And so I feel like so much of this has been this path of, like, the work that I want to do. You know, phone calls all day long completely drain me. So I can't show up authentically in that fashion because it's not how I'm wired to operate best. So understanding myself has really set the foundation for all of that. And I think that's a constant journey of being able to kind of, like, realize those things, realign what we're doing, just really kind of, like, taking note of, like, you know, today felt like crap, and here's why I think. And, like, then the next time that happens, you're like, oh, like, there's two ticks in that box. Maybe that's something I should look at. Or, like, I did this thing and I felt really good. Like, for me, sometimes jumping on a call for free with somebody just to, like, give them advice on their business, and I just, like. I'm just, like, lit up for the entire day. I'm like, oh, well, maybe mentorship is a path I should start to explore a little bit more. So I think for somebody looking to communicate authentically, I think it starts with being able to understand who you authentically are.

I just love so much what you just said about, like, being in room, disagreeing and expressing that, because sometimes, like, we hear and we have this understanding that it's. It's not even real, that to be accepted or to connect, we need to agree. Right. And it's absolutely not that. It's actually the opposite, because it's. It's not to the surface. And maybe that's why you have this energy. Like. Well, it's the first time that I'm having a conversation with you, but I follow your content, and I love the way you write. And it's probably coming from this energy of, like, I'm gonna share what makes sense to me, and if it doesn't make sense to you, that's totally fine and we can still connect. Right? And yeah, it's. It's so powerful because, yeah, very often it's just, like, people trying to agree with each other or trying to take the same perspective, and then it's hard. It's challenging for you. But if you don't know who you are, like, how you're gonna position yourself or how you're gonna share what is in you. Right? And, yeah, that's for connection. Like, I never really had this thought about, like, yeah, just, you know, disagreeing as a tool in a way to.

Connect it's it's also where I felt internal conflict around business coaching when I was doing it, you know, in 2018, because people would come to me with these questions, and I knew deep down that, like, sometimes people just need to go through something. Like, it doesn't matter what I tell you. It's not gonna matter.

Yes.

And it's. So I would felt this internal conflict because people are like, okay, I'm hiring you and I need to get this result in eight weeks. And you're like, but it's not gonna happen. I just know it's not gonna happen. Like, you might need to. To struggle, and you might need to go through three failures before you get there. So I ended up leaving that space at the time because I really struggled with that. You know, Like, I read Russell Brunson's Expert Secrets and.com Secrets like, three times, and it wasn't like, until four to five years later that it, like, clicked on. Like, oh, yeah, I can do this. Like, sometimes we need to go through it. Sometimes the only way to figure out how to communicate authentically is to actually start communicating and figure out what feels inauthentic through communicating. Sometimes, like you said, the only way to figure things out is through taking action. And it's difficult to put ourselves out there because it's scary to be rejected. It's scary to jump on a call and not have the answer. When someone asks you. It's scary to jump on a live and have it completely flop. Like the first live I did. People are like, we can't hear you because the mic is scratching your beard. My volume was dying. I pressed something on the screen and I couldn't see the chat anymore. And then I posted about it and I was like, I went live and it wasn't good. And that post got like 150 likes. And people were like, oh, it was so good. And it's like, we're so harsh on ourselves. But it's not what other people are thinking. Most people are too wrapped up in what's going on with themselves to even care what's going on with us. So it's. It's not an easy journey, but I think it's one that the biggest thing I think for me has been realizing that my path is going to be my own. And I've accepted that. Like, if it takes me three times as long as you to accomplish something, it's okay. It's not easy. It doesn't mean it's easy, but I've begun to accept that. And I remind myself of that often that I don't have to do it the way that that person's doing it. I don't need to post 67 times a day like Gary Vaynerchuk. I don't need to grow as fast as this person does on Substack because there's a lot of people that started at Substack at the same time I did that have way more followers and subscribers than I do. And I'm just like, oh, sometimes just like, this is frustrating, but it's like, it's okay. My message is going to be my own.

Yeah, I love what you said. Just to kind of close out on this and then we'll. We'll go to questions from, from the audience. But yeah, just. It's really interesting this. I feel like there's a recurring theme, like what you were sharing about just telling people the truth of what you think. In my mind, I feel this is actually what qualifies you to be a good mentor. And if there's any sort of thing, because it's interesting, you're our third. You're our third guest who in some way or shape and has identified as a. As a coach or mentor. And the same theme has come up and it's something that actually Carolina and I were having the same conversation before this call about what you were talking about of like, you just need to go through things sometimes. And I also, I always say, like, we're not like, to be in service in this role. We're not here to be. For you to like me. I'm not here for you to make. To tell you what you think you need to hear. That's, like, not why you hired me.

Right.

But that's the part of like it. And I agree with you. Like, when I'm on a call, whether it's a private client or in a group, it's really, really hard when that rubs up against this desire of like, I want to feel accepted. I want to tell you something that's going to make you look at me and be like, oh, everything's amazing. And sometimes that's just not the truth. And so I just really resonate with that because that's been my practice, too, to be able to speak my truth from a place of love, but from honesty to say, hey, I think. And I also don't ever want to say that I hold the truth. I can't be surprised someone couldn't just totally leapfrog my expectation of what's possible and say, eight weeks, for example. But I also love this idea of being very honest from my experience and sharing from that place. So, yeah, I just really appreciate it, that, that perspective.

Sometimes people are like, should I do this or this? Like, well, it doesn't really matter. Try one, see how it feels, then try the other one, see how it feels. Yeah, it's just, it's this really interesting journey that we're on.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, but cool. Yeah. So we'll, we'll take a couple questions, if there are any, and then I'll ask people or ask you about what the best way to connect with you is. But for anyone that's on the chat, appreciate you being here with us. This has been a really fun conversation. Landon's got a lot to offer. Any questions for him, please feel free to put them in the chat related to anything we've talked about. Anything else you're curious about? I think he's demonstrated on this call. He's a pretty open book. So, yeah, feel free to ask any questions that are coming up. And from my honest place, I still haven't mastered this, getting the response back on the questions, but there we go. That's our first. I think that's our first chat question, doctor. Oh, yeah, she's asking who your typical follower reader is.

So my typical follower or reader is generally somebody that's on kind of like the entrepreneurial journey, whether it's a full time thing or. Or a side hustle on Substack. A lot of them are people who are writers or looking to leverage writing to generate an income. Just because that's the nature of. There's more of those individuals on Substack than other platforms, but generally, yeah, somebody coaches, course creators, solopreneurs, entrepreneurs. Whether it's a full time thing or a part time thing, they're looking to generally create income that they're in control of away from their full time job.

Any other questions for Landon? And yeah, I would definitely encourage anyone that's listening either on the live or on the replay. Yeah, just love, love, Landon's coming. Actually, I love. There's another one I love that you like. Back to your kind of honesty and transparency, which I really appreciate. There was one that was pretty. I can't remember the details, but it's pretty gut wrenching. I think it was the one where you were talking about was it moving to Las Vegas or something for some sort of mentorship and just like how that all that all kind of fell apart like that. That was. I really enjoyed that very difficult time in our life. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, we have another question here. Rachel asks, I love what you say about how mentoring lights you up. That joy, that joy of connection. When you write, do you feel the same? A dialogue with a specific other, and if so, how?

Yeah, so that's a beautiful question. Actually. I really started to fall in love with writing. I definitely feel writing comes in cyclical waves of feeling great and I'll write like three articles in a week. And then like my last article took me like 10 days to write. So it's definitely not constant. I want to make that very obvious. But I found myself wanting. I really enjoy sharing stories based on my own personal experiences. I find that really lights me up. I tend to gravitate towards how to content because it's just so easy to write. Like the five steps to do this, you know, here's five steps to post notes. And I feel that's what a lot of people like. So I'm always in this kind of contrast between things that get more likes, which I know what that content is, and it's the business make money type content. It generally gets a little bit of a warmer reception, more likes, more shares, and then the more personal content. Speaking about my failures, my experiences. The difference though is, is the depth of the comments that come from those personal experiences are always so, so deep. Being able to have somebody send me a DM about like how an experience touched their lives or they're going through something similar. So I definitely feel that there's still the little bit of the ego that can get hit when you post something and it gets not a lot of likes. But I try and do my best to share both some of the how to content, which is still rooted in kind of my philosophies when it comes to business, but also being very open about failures and things like that, because I think all of that needs a platform. I had a mentor once that told me. I was like, I have an idea for an article. Because a partner that I had, we had a failed launch. Like, we went to launch a new product and we landed in the spam folders off the first email and it completely derailed everything. And he's like, well, why don't you just wait till you've got that problem resolved and then you can speak about like the success and the turnaround. And I'm like, but that doesn't feel right. Because we can't only speak about business and failures when we are attaching it to a successful outcome. Because that's not real life. Like every time I go through a difficult experience, there isn't this Just like big rainbow at the end and big pot of gold that I'm achieving. Sometimes we're just like, in the shit for a while. And when we portray things and only talk about difficult experiences, when it's tied to this, like, reward at the end, we lead people to think that that's what's going to happen. So when they don't feel good and then they don't get that reward, then people feel very defeated. And that's how I felt. So it's like I want to be able to shine a light on failure and try and normalize it so that people know that it is okay and that social media people love to show the highlight reel. So I try and pull as much of that as I can into it because it's feels good for me to do it.

Yeah, I love that. I remember seeing you post something about the contrast between those two content types and how you would get the personal, like, very heartfelt dms. And I've had that experience too, because I feel a lot of our content falls into that category. But yeah, it's just so interesting because if you're just judging it by the likes and the comments, you would think, and this is for anyone who's like, I'm saying this for anyone who's considering their own strategy, like, you would think that you're just failing. But I would agree. Like, so many of the, the people that have joined our community, people that have become clients, dear friends, collaborators, those are things that, those are conversations that just never showed up publicly on any sort of comment feed. It's kind of like how they say, you know, they talk about, like, a lot of your best customers are just the lurkers that don't say anything at all. But then the ones that are reaching out privately, no one else in the audience ever sees that. And I feel that that can lead people to, yeah. Feel that they have to be doing all of the how to type content that you're describing. And so I totally agree with you around this. Finding the balance between the different types of things that you're. You're publishing.

Yeah, the type of content plays a huge role in it too. So, like, yeah, if you're talking about, like, how to make money versus talking about, like, how to help, you know, women leave narcissistic, Narcissistic partners, that's not something that a lot of people might want to be commenting publicly about. So, like, the type of content we're sharing also influences the type and form of engagement we're gonna get. And then like if it's awareness focused or like conversion focused. There's so much nuance that goes into it.

Yeah. Yes.

Yeah.

Someone's. Someone's like someone's judging their content. Failure to get public likes and comments when they're comparing it against someone whose content's 100% about grow your substack. Right. Which is gonna. And it's just a totally different game and there's so many nuances to that. So. Awesome. Well, we've kept you a little bit longer than planned, but I'd really appreciated this conversation and it feels like everyone else has too, because they've stuck with us. But I just wanted to ask you before we wrap. I feel like you're very easy to find here on Substack, but you know, if. If someone was wondering what's the best way to experience your work, where would you point them to? Whether it's a specific starting point here on Substack or elsewhere, what would you suggest for them?

Yeah, so I'm fairly active on Substack, posting notes daily, long form articles one to two times a week. So you can search my name. Landon. My publication is Landon's Letters. It wasn't super creative, but I was coming up with the name, but it seems to have stuck. Publication to find me is just my name. Landonpoin.substack.com so search me up in the search bar. Check the links in the. In the description. But happy to connect with anybody. Shoot me a dm. Happy to have a conversation and see if I can provide any more support.

Well, and we will share all Landon's links as well when we publish the replay so you can find it all there as well. And yeah, my friend, thank you so much. Super grateful to have you here with us. I feel that our conversations are just getting started. It's been a long time wanting to get in connect, direct connection with you. So appreciate you making the time and yeah, we will see you around. Thank you so much.

Good see you both. It was great to see you. Bye.

Okay, bye.