She hated the gym. She's walked the Camino 15 times | Rebecca Weston | In Full Light 006
In this In Full Light Substack Live interview, host Phil Powis welcomes Camino de Santiago guide and entrepreneur Rebecca Weston, joined by co‑interviewer Carolina. Rebecca shares her personal pilgrimage story—first walking the Camino in 2012 after being inspired by Shirley MacLaine, completing over 15 routes, living in Spain, and volunteering on the trail. She explains why she launched Camino Calls, a service that helps primarily 45‑plus clients plan and join small‑group or hybrid Camino trips that prioritize accessibility (private rooms, lighter packs) and personalized support. The conversation explores the transformative power of the Camino, common client fears (physical ability, health, logistics), the challenge of information overload, and Rebecca’s approach to building a heart‑led business: embracing vulnerability, using a minimum‑viable‑product mindset, and iterating as she goes. She discusses the importance of community, both online (newsletter, Substack) and future in‑person gatherings, and reflects on the personal growth she’s experienced as a solopreneur. The interview ends with practical next steps for listeners who want to learn more or work with Rebecca.
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Welcome to In Full Light. This is our Substack Live series where we celebrate the heart-led practitioners inside our community who are stepping into their power and gifts in the world. Today we are joined by Rebecca Weston. We are excited to share her story with you. She helps people plan their transformational journey on the Camino de Santiago. I hope I said that right. I always seem to find a way to, to mess that one up. Um, but she also leads small group trips on the Camino. And, uh, for those who are seeking a supported start to their journey, And for those of you who don't know what the Camino is, we will let Rebecca share more about that. But thank you for being here, Rebecca, and it's great to have you with us.
Great. Thanks for having me.
Cool. So where we would love to start today is just giving you the opportunity to share more about who you are, what you do. And I think the thing that, at least for us at Sacred Business, what we're most interested in is kind of why you do it. So what is kind of the deeper calling behind the work that you've chosen to take on with the Camino Calls?
Gotcha. So, uh, welcome everyone. Thanks to everyone who's joining us, uh, live and otherwise. My name is Rebecca Weston, and yes, I help people plan their walks on the Camino de Santiago and lead small group trips on the Camino de Santiago. Um, I'll start by kind of introducing that, like, what is that even? Uh, the Camino de Santiago is a network of over 1,200-year-old pilgrimage trails, um, through, throughout Europe actually, uh, that end in Santiago de Compostela, Spain. A lot of people People think there's one Camino route and I walked the Camino, but there's dozens of routes. Um, and so anyway, it's, it's been in existence for a very long time and has become grown in popularity, um, probably over the last, um, 15 or 20 years. Um, more so basically to the popularity it had in the Middle Ages. Um, so about me, I walked for the first time on the Camino de Santiago in 2012. I heard about it in the year 2000. Um, Shirley MacLaine, for those of you that know this American actress, was interviewed on a morning news program and talked about her book that she had just written on this walk she had done across Spain. I didn't know why she was famous. I'd heard her name before, but she was a little before my time. But the walk sounded really cool and I filed it away as something I was going to do someday. And I'm not one to, you know, wait till I'm retired to do much of anything. So, so it did take me a little bit. But in 2012, I embarked on my first walk on the Camino de Santiago. I chose to do a 37-day walk. At the time I thought that was the only Camino and the only option. Now I know there's a lot of options. You can just go for a week, you can go for months, you can start in France or Spain, Portugal. But I did that and I, like a lot of people, fell in love with it. It is pretty much unlike anything I'd ever done before. I met people from, I don't know how many dozens of different countries. I, you know, it's like a walking community really of people from all walks of life. So many different places, so many different, you know, ages, physical abilities or lack thereof. And so, yeah, I really fell in love with it. And at the time was in my 30s and didn't really think, you know, I could just go back and do it again. I met a lot of retired folks who had done it like multiple times, 8, 9, 10, 12 times. And I understood it at that point. Like once I basically 3 days into my first Camino, I was like, I gotta come back and do this again. And so as, you know, the universe throws things at you, I ended up back there only a couple years later doing my second one. And now, you know, so that was 2012, we're now in 2026, I've done over 15 Caminos. And I've also volunteered on the Camino. I lived in Spain for 4 and a half years. It's really become, you know, a huge part of my life. And at this point, well, it was about a year ago, February, I've been, People have asked me for years, are you going to lead groups on the Camino? Are you going to do a Camino business? You love it so much. But as you guys know, there's definitely a difference between something you love and then turning it into a business. And so that was something I did not take lightly. And for a long, long time, I was like, nope, the Camino is mine. It's right here. I love it. I, you know, I would walk with other people. But, uh, but I just wasn't ready to do that. And then at some point, um, you guys actually came across my, my inbox, highly recommended by, um, Leo Babauta of Zen Habits, for those of you that know him. Um, and I decided this was, this was what I needed. It was time. It was time to share this amazing journey with other people and help other people make it happen because, um, I just found that there were a lot of resources out there for people that wanted to do the Camino, but staying in hostels and carrying a heavy backpack and, and there's lots of ways to do the Camino. And I didn't find as many resources at that time, at least for people that wanted to stay in a private room and have their own bathroom and not have to carry, you know, 12 or 15 pounds on their back. And so those are the kinds of Caminos that I am doing currently with, with the folks that I work with. I work with people who are 45 and over who are like, yep, hostels might be cool, maybe they want to stay in one, but pretty much most every client I've worked with thus far, um, has, you know, opted for other choices of accommodations. Um, and so, so yeah, that's kind of where this journey has kind of started and, and led at this point. So kind of long answer to a short question.
No, this is really awesome. And I, um, my next question to you is related to the transformation that people go through, but I think there's like maybe parts to that that I would love to hear from you. Like, one, what is your own transformation? And you keep coming back, so you probably keep transforming yourself every time you go. So let's begin there, and then I would love to hear from people that, uh, you've already helped.
Gotcha. And so the transformational piece is a lot of people do the Camino when they are in some sort of transition. So I've met people who have just retired or, uh, who have just graduated from college, who have just, you know, recently lost a spouse or very sadly a child or a partner. I've met people who are just looking to travel differently. They don't want to go to another destination and check off another bunch of things to see. They're kind of looking for different ways to experience another culture. And so the transformation, a lot of people do set out with an intention, but a good friend of mine who I did my third Camino with said, you can't plan an epiphany. So it's not guaranteed guaranteed that the, the reason that you go is necessarily what you're gonna get out of it. And it's one of, like a lot of things in life, you know, you might go out there with a certain intention, something you'd like to just kind of ponder, figure out, have some time to think about. But the Camino, they say, provides, and the Camino gives you what it's meant to give you, not necessarily what you think you need. And so, Every Camino I've done, I've done with an intention. Some I have been public about, some I have kept to myself. And I think my first Camino, on the third day I was on it, I had the answer to my question. And actually a lot of people start the Camino and they don't even know why they're there. And that was actually me on my first Camino. When people said, "Why are you doing this?" I was, I'm still, I would not consider myself athletic, I'd never done anything like this in my life. I hated gyms. I hated exercise. I mean, I am not your typical, like, "Oh, let's go do something physically challenging" kind of person. But I just felt like it was something I had to do and it was time to do it. And I didn't know until I got there my reason. And within 3 days, I had my answer. But by then, I was hooked and I'm like, "I got to keep going on this. There's more for this to teach me." Yes, the transformation piece is huge and it's such a, I mean, and there are people who will do this just as a vacation and they just go and they enjoy it and that's fine. And, you know, not everybody's going to say, oh my gosh, I got this big message. But most people you talk to about the Camino love talking about it and can't wait to go back. In my, you know, how many years are we at now of doing this? 14 years now. I have met one person who did a Camino and was like, Nope, never doing that again. Which I get. It's not, it's definitely not for everybody. It's for a lot of people though. And for a lot of people that might not think it's for them, actually, I would challenge you to look into it because it is so accessible to so many people in so many ways.
Yeah, I really like the fact that you actually, I think part of the work that you do and the beauty of it is because you turn that more accessible. Because like that, for me, like I, it's, it's on my list forever and I've never done it and I would love to do it and I wanna do your way, just so you know.
Me too, by the way.
But, um, I think the way you do it, it, it's just like, hey, you don't need to be like an athlete. You don't need to be training for like years. You don't need to be Teddy. You don't need to be fit. You don't need anything. Like you just need to be willing to go and, you know, um, walk, I guess, and, and we are gonna find a way for you to, to do that. So I, I really appreciate that, you know, this is for everybody if you're willing to do it.
Can I interrupt there for a minute too? Yeah. Because I don't wanna make it out to seem like it's a piece of cake to do. It is not easy, but that does not mean that it's not accessible. Um, so yeah, there are people that show up with no training whatsoever. They decided last week, it's time, I'm gonna go to the Camino, and they show up and they do the whole darn thing. And, and and they make it through. Maybe they've got blisters, maybe they sprain their knee, whatever, but they, but they make it. That's not necessarily what, you know, what I'm about. Um, I do teach people, you know, what I do for training, what I recommend you do for training. We talk about what to bring with you and how to kind of, um, I always tell people, uh, the Camino is going to be challenging. You don't need to make it any more so. Uh, so some people are like, oh, but aren't you supposed to carry a backpack? There's no rules on the Camino that say you have to do it a certain way, which is one of the things that I love about it. Um, but, but yeah, so I just wanted to put that little caveat in there that just because I believe it's so accessible to so many people doesn't necessarily mean it's easy.
That's great. Thank you. Thank you for pointing that out. And you kind of spoke a little bit about at the beginning when you got like us in your inbox and recommended by Leo, and you decided that that's like, hey, this is the moment, like I need to, but like Can you share a little more like why this matters so much to you? Like, what was the turning point? I'm sure like the email maybe was like, oh, there is something that can support me, but there was something before that. So what was that for you that you like, I need to follow that?
Yeah, I think it had been something. I think obvious there's, I, I wrote a post, one of my first posts actually on Substack about how, you know, there's not necessarily these people that are like, oh my gosh. And then all of a sudden, like overnight success. It's like, no, it's actually most of the time it's not overnight. They've been thinking about it for years, working on it for years, doing things for years. But this moment looks at, looks to the public like, oh my gosh, it just suddenly happened. And that was the case for me. I'd been thinking about, you know, helping other people get on the Camino for years, but just for whatever reason, it wasn't the time. So you're exactly right, Carolina. It wasn't just, oh my gosh, I saw this email and it's time to start this business. No, I'd been thinking about it for years. And at the time, you know, I mean, I was getting closer and closer and closer to it. I mean, I was living in Spain at that point. I'm now a citizen of the European Union, which means I can go back to Europe, you know, pretty much as frequently as I want. So much has happened, you know, that kind of just kept showing me, like, if you talk to my husband, he'll be like, I know you should have done this like years ago, but I needed to be ready for it. And I think there was a combination of things. One of the things was when we moved to Spain, um, which we did in July of '21, um, life over there goes at a different speed, um, and it's a slower speed, not for everyone, um, but in general, things don't operate over there at the speed that they do in the United States. Um, and I say over there because I'm in the United States at this very moment. Um, 2 days from now I will be in Spain again. So, um, so if you're getting a little confused, why is she saying here versus there? I kind of, I get around. So, um, so yeah, there was this, this, um, this slowly growing interest. Then I got to Spain where I could actually slow down myself and really feel like, okay, I am starting. I mean, I've never been one to do much in life that I don't enjoy doing. So if, I mean, if I'm not happy with whatever, I make a change. So it's not like, you know, I had been slaving away in some job for years. I only do things I enjoy until I don't enjoy them anymore. And so, you know, I— but this, having this time, it was like a gift to be able to have that time to just process What do I want my life to look like? I love, I just love working with people in general. I love teaching and I love, I just have a wonderful gift for working with people over a certain age and whatever age you want to call that. I say 45 and over on my website just because, you know, I'm about to turn 50 and I felt like I couldn't advertise something to people that I wasn't even their age yet. But I do have a gift with working with people 65 and over. So most of my, most of the people I work with have been thinking about this for years. And so I, same thing in Spain. I mean, every time I came back and told my husband, oh, I met somebody, he's like, let me guess, they're retired. And it's like, yes, they are. Um, so, so yeah, it was just this combination. And I think having that gift of being able to slow down when we moved to Spain really helped me to start to, okay, now I've got the time and I've got, and I'm literally right here. I mean, we lived on the Camino for a couple years on one of the routes. Um, so yeah, it was, and then I think it just was all those pieces that come together. Like, you know, you guys have said, I mean, you put something out there to the universe and the universe shows up. So I, you know, I'd never heard of you guys before, but I'd been following Leo for years. But I mean, this has been, um, you know, being part of the Sacred Business Network has been so helpful for building my confidence and my ability to start, um, this business. Um, at this point in my life. So thanks for that.
That's great. I don't know if you saw that Steve, I don't know if you guys met already next year. So Steve, sign up for Rebecca and get her dates.
Yeah, she'll take good care of you for sure. But Rebecca, let's talk a little bit more about what you just said. And I'm actually going to steal your line now because I just love that, you know, we like to be real with people too. And, you know, what I believe about starting an online business is it's also accessible to almost anyone and It's not always going to be easy. So we'll just borrow that from you. And so I'd love to hear more from you. You know, you made this decision to move forward with this business, which to me, I kind of see as kind of like the ticket to admission. And that's really when things, you know, the real work begins. And so what are some of the things, if anything comes to mind, that maybe, I don't know, you used to believe about yourself or business in general that maybe you've had to let go of or change your relationship with it, you know, to get to where you're feeling about this business today?
I think one of the things was just believing that I was of value enough. My knowledge and skillset were of value enough that people would want to pay me to help them. And it, I think, because I don't know necessarily know why, but I grew up in a culture of, I grew up Catholic, I grew up doing lots of volunteer work, you give of yourself freely. And I thought, you know, there's tons of resources out there about the Camino de Santiago. What do I have to offer that either is not already out there or is out there, but people just don't know about it? And it took me a little bit to recognize, no, wait a minute. I mean, I've done this thing 15 times. I've lived on the Camino. I volunteered on the Camino. I speak Spanish. I mean, it's— there are plenty of people that there are companies that you can hire that'll just plan your walk for you. Um, but I'm, I'm, you know, more one-on-one, very personal. Um, especially when I do my, my trips. I mean, I'm literally walking with you for the first 3 days. Um, so it's— I— it took me a bit. That was a, a, a moment for me to recognize. Um, and I think it was one thing that Carolina was really good about pointing out, um, in the beginning of like embracing your, your knowledge, your power, your skill set. Like, yeah, I have. It was almost like, who am I not to share this with other people? Like, one of my big things is I want people to be able to do this. If you want to do the Camino de Santiago, I want you to be able to do it. And if I can help you get there, great. If somebody else helps you, sure. But who am I to deny? Like, there— I, I have people now who have said, I would have not done the Camino de Santiago were it not for you. And I'm just getting chills Just thinking about that, I'm tearing up a little bit. I have a family that's leaving on the Camino. I think they left today, actually, a family of 5. And, you know, the wife has never been to Europe before. The kids have never been to Europe. Only the husband has. And they're going over there for a couple of weeks. They're going to walk a Camino de Santiago together. And I mean, I helped make that happen. We planned the whole thing. And it's just, you know, it's it's one of those things that once you believe in yourself, um, I, I won't say other people start believing you. People already had been believing in me for years. Like, it was so many people were like, well, of course you'd start this business. What, what other business do you think would be ideal for you? Um, and so that was a thing for me to, to recognize, like, yeah, I do have, you know, this, this skill set and this, this love and this desire to help people, and I can make it happen. Um, so that was a big one. The other one was logistics. I have another business that I started about 5 years ago, and so I knew some of the logistics, but it's not nearly as— I don't know what the word— as hands-on as this one is, you know. So there were just bigger logistics to figure out with this, some of which, you know, I mean, just in the last week I've gone up and down about different things that I've wanted to do with this business. And, uh, you know, so it's every, but, but the group reminds me like, okay, there's a lot of things I'm doing now for the first time that I will never have to do for the first time ever again, because now I've done them once before. Um, so I led my first group on the Camino last October. It was amazing. Um, I think I saw Margaret was one of my participants. She, she's on this call here listening live to us. So hi, Margaret. Um, put her trust in me, um, along with 3 other women that were like, yeah, let's try this. And they totally embraced the adventure of it, um, and inspired me to be like, you know, I didn't initially think leading group trips on the Camino was gonna be a thing. I thought I would just help people plan their own Caminos. Now I'm doing both, um, because there are people that just need that need, want, whatever it is, that's the experience they're looking for. Like, oh, Rebecca's going to help me. She's going to take me through a few calls. She's going to tell me how to train. She's going to tell me, you know, how to— where we're going to start, how to get there. And, you know, she's going to help me the first few days figuring out what on earth to eat and when to eat. Like, I mean, all kinds of stuff. And then they— and my trips are hybrid. So, I'm only with people for the first 3 days and then they're off on their own because Um, that's part of the Camino experience too. And I want people to have that experience. Like, you can do this and whatever help you need to get started, if it's me in the beginning, if it's me helping you plan your trip, if it's somebody, whatever it is, make it happen. I mean, life is short and the Camino is not necessarily something you can do 10, 15, 20 years from now, depending on your physical condition. So I also tell people, you know, if you're thinking about that cruise to Alaska, I'm like, you can sit on a cruise ship when you're 90 in a wheelchair, you cannot Well, people do do the Camino in wheelchairs actually. Um, but you know, it's, it's just one of those things. I always recommend people do it sooner rather than later.
Thank you. And, and I just want to, um, say thank you for sharing, uh, the embodiment of self-authorization, which is a huge thing that we talk about it. That's not something that comes from here. And if you're listening now, or if you're listening to the recording and maybe you have something in your heart, just the way like you were sharing, Rebecca, that like it keeps knocking on my door. It never goes away, right? Like you start receiving like, oh, I want to do this, but it doesn't make sense. And then if you try to explain like to your mind, well, all the information is free there. Like people can find everything out there. And then you're kind of like trying to find a reason and not everything has a reason to exist, but the calling was there and you're like, Yeah, maybe. And receiving the feedback from people that like, I would never done it if it was not for you. I think this is like the proof of like, there is something here that this do not understand and you will understand eventually, but maybe the first step needs to come from here. So thank you for your words and just explaining in a beautiful way, like your, your story, because I think then people can maybe see themselves and like, oh, maybe I do have something here and I have this thing that keeps keeps like, you know, burning here and that doesn't make full sense, but I would love to try one day. So I just wanna say thank you for that.
You're welcome. And, and that reminds me, yep. Okay. I was gonna say it reminds me of something else too that I, that I noticed, you know, over the years when I did my first Camino, there was hardly anyone who had ever heard of it, let alone walked it. Um, there were no YouTube channels about it. There were no Facebook groups about it. There was, I mean, there was one forum that I found. And it was one of those things where if I looked at it too long, I'd be like, there's all kinds of questions on here that I wasn't even worried about, and should I be worried about them? And so now it's like the opposite. There is just an overload of information that you have to— that people are trying to wade through. And so that's what I get from some people is that they're like, I don't want to have to wade through all of these videos, Facebook group posts. I mean, you put a post on one of these Facebook groups about, I don't know, what shoes, and I mean 500 people respond to you about what shoes they think you should wear on the Camino de Santiago. Whereas I'm like, you know what, you know how different feet are. You really shouldn't just go by what someone on the internet says. Go to somebody who actually knows this stuff and ask an actual professional about this. You know, sure. But you can get advice from people. Absolutely. But it can be very overwhelming when you've got so much information, which I feel like is just the story of our lives these days, this overrun of information. And so one of the things that I also help people with is weeding through. I mean, people show up to our calls, they're like, well, I read this and I heard this, and I'm like, okay, let me tell you about that. And just, you know, give you— on one level you can look at it as my, my two cents, but honestly it's my experience from doing this 15 times at this point. So I'm not just somebody who's done a Camino and is like, I know the best way you should do this. And I don't think I do even know the best way, but what I want to do I'm going to listen to you and what you're looking for from this experience. That makes a difference. So when you're on, you know, consuming all of this stuff, but nobody's on the other end listening to you and what you're looking for, you're just taking this all in. But I want to give people the opportunity to say, here's what I want from this experience. Oh, okay. Then let me just tell you how you can do that. So just a little. Um, aside that I wanted to put in there.
Yeah, no, and I think it's very important. Like the, it's true that like before maybe we had lack of information and it was just hard to find, but I don't, I think information is a problem anymore, but like understanding like the order and like the questions and having someone like these days, we're just having a conversation yesterday, how much human relationships are so valuable, right? And right now we are maybe going to the AI and the internet, like to an extreme of like, oh, AI can do this and I can ask these questions and I can probably plan a Camino in like 2 seconds. If I ask Claude like, hey, can you plan my Camino for 5 days? It's going to give me like a whole thing. But, you know, we've had experiences before where it gave us restaurant like completely off where we were and all of that. So I think more and more we need to like, yes, there is a human and this interaction, the conversation is so valuable. Um, that I think more and more people will be like, oh, this is what I want. But just shifting a little bit, like, I don't know if that was a problem for you, but a lot of times we see people when they're going on this path of like creating a business from their heart or from something that truly matters to them, um, they fear visibility. They fear being seen. Was that ever a thing for you related to this business, the Camino business? Um, or, and then how it shifted, or it was never a problem?
Um, I don't, So I don't— I love, you know, teaching. I don't mind being in— speaking in front of groups. So that kind of visibility I'm fine with. What the visibility issue that I had was, am I ready enough? So do I want to do this interview yet when I haven't done this, this and this on my Substack or on my website or whatever? And it's, it's kind of at this point now where I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna do what I can and then I'm gonna just keep going and things will, you know, it'll either work or it won't or whatever. I mean, you know, I just finished the finishing touches on my group trip for September literally this morning. And it was a whole process and there was some hesitation there on even like doing this interview because I'm like, well, what if my group trip's not ready and da da da. And it's like, I'm like, so what? I, you know, I have a waiting list. People can, can ask me about it, whatever. Um, so I think there was some of that of like, if I put myself out there even more and I don't have all of this stuff ready in the background, um, but there's this big hot topic now of like build as you go or whatever they call it, um, that you don't create everything ahead of time, that you kind of create it as you build as you go. Um, and my lovely folks with my first Camino trip. Yeah, I, you know, as we need documents, I built them and I sent them out, you know, and I mean, and now I have it for this next trip, but then I'm going to do another trip that's going to be a completely different route and I'm going to have to start all over again. But it doesn't, it feels a lot better to create stuff, you know, not spending months working on fine-tuning and creating something. Because that just drains me. And it's just like, you can fine-tune forever. I'd rather spend the time, you know, engaging with people and, you know, teaching people about the Camino, writing my newsletter, whatever. And when it's time to, you know, give you more information, okay, boom, I can bang it out because I've got it in here. Some of it I've already got written because I've been teaching people how to do the Camino for years. I've taught classes on it. So it was, also nice to recognize. So, the visibility was one thing, but then the other thing is I have the information. It's either written down somewhere or it's in my head because I've done it all. So, yeah, those were a couple of those struggles with visibility for sure.
Yeah, it's very nice the way you said it, and I'm sure Phil can share more too, because this is what we see. Like, I don't think this thing of like refinement is because I care too much more often than not is the pattern of I'm not enough. And then you will never be enough if you're trying to create and be ready here, because the process that you described is like, this is the process of getting ready. It's like, this is what I have. One person signs up. This is what I need now. I didn't know that I needed this and now I need to create it. And like, this is the co-creation with life. And we'll never be ready in your mind and you just said it like beautifully, so.
Yeah, and I feel this is also, this is like presence, right? And this is also listening and it's, you know, there's, you know, one of the things I see a lot with early stage businesses, we always have like our hypothesis, our best guess of what this is gonna be. And, you know, sort of when we work with clients, I say that to our clients, I'm like, hey, like I'm bringing everything I can to you of what I think is available to you and you're bringing all of your ideas, but so much changes and I'm sure you could speak to that too, but just like so much often changes changes in that first 6 months to 1 year. And there's nothing more frustrating than just sinking yourself into a creative project and then like realizing like, oh, A, nobody ever asked for that. And B, like, I just spent all this time and now I need to rebuild it again. I mean, you may know this, Rebecca, we haven't really like officially unveiled it, but we're just putting the finishing touches on our brand website. We actually had our photographer down here this past week. That's 3 years in the making and it took an incredible amount of effort to get there. But if we Tried to do that work 3 years ago, we would've been spinning our wheels and have rebuilt that thing 3 times. And so, yeah, there's just a lot of wisdom to kind of echo back the way you described it. And yeah, and it's just one of these things of just letting it be enough just to go out there and see what people have to say. And I think you've embodied that beautifully with the way you've been building this business. So thank you for that as well.
Thank you. There's also this concept of most viable product. Um, it was something I got from, you know, my teaching days of, you know, teachers, you know, come up with this PowerPoint, you're putting in all these cool little things back in the days of PowerPoint. I know we've, um, but you know, and this little animation and blah blah blah, and you could spend hours and hours and hours perfecting this presentation that you're going to give to your students that might take all of 15 minutes, and you might give it and it's crap. And you're like, this is not the way I want to do this at all. And you wasted all that time. And so there's this idea of most viable product, just put out there what's the minimum, you know, the, you know, or minimum— sorry, I'm not— most viable, minimum viable product. Like, what's the minimum? Not to say that it's crappy, but just that it's that version of, okay, is this what people need? Is this what people want? Is this what's going to work? I'm probably going to modify. I mean, Everything I created for my first Camino trip, it's going to get modified for this one, even though my first trip this year is the same trip I did last year, but we're staying in different places and we're, you know, we're walking different distances, etc., etc. So this idea of, yeah, let go of like making everything perfect before you put it out there. What's the minimum viable product? And go.
Yeah, absolutely. Yes, thank you for that. So, um, kind of coming back to— and I think you've touched on so many of them already, but you know, I know some people joining us late, or if you can kind of condense it down to, you know, the simplest form, like when you think about how you support people with the Camino, like what is like the one thing you wish people understood about the work you do or something that maybe gets overlooked or misunderstood? You know, I know the whole thing of like accessibility and you don't need to stay in a hostel, like that's the one that comes to mind. But is there anything else that you feel would be really valuable to share with anyone who's listening?
Um, that you don't have to have it all planned perfectly in order to do it. Um, whatever you feel comfortable with, you know, you wanna make sure you know where you're gonna stay. Okay, great. Do you need to have every single meal planned? No. Do you have to have walked 10 miles a day for the last 10 days? No, you're gonna do that on the Camino. Um, but you know, that's, that's what training's for. And when you run a marathon, you don't run 26 miles the day before you actually run the marathon. So I think that it's kind of along the same lines of minimal viable product. You don't need to have it all perfect. My job, a lot of what I do is getting you to the point where you feel like, okay, I can do this. I've got what I need to make me feel like I can do this, whatever that is. So some people, special diets, and they want to know about food in Spain and some people, it's distances. So I've worked with people who, you know, I'm not doing more than 9 miles a day, so we have to find the Camino where they could do that. And what does that look like? And all of that. So whatever, you know, what are your hard and fast, like, these are the things that I definitely need to have in place to make this, make me feel like, okay, this is, this is doable. And those are the things that we're going to make our top priorities. And it's one of the first things I ask people When we do my planning series, so when I help people plan their specific Camino, they're not coming on a group trip with me. They just want to get on the Camino and they want help planning it. One of the first things I ask in my very first call with them is, okay, what are your biggest concerns or the biggest things that you want to make sure you know about or you get answers to over the course of our time together? And they might be things I can answer in all of, you know, 15 minutes, but I want to know from day one, What are those things? Other things will come up and that's fine, but right off the bat, you know, that's what builds that confidence is, okay, this is doable. So, to recognize you don't have to have know-it-all, but what are the things that you want to know to make yourself feel better is probably what I'd say for that.
Yeah. When you get on those calls, like, is there, like, what is the biggest concern that, you know, you see? Kind of coming up again and again if someone's like sitting there, like not sure if they're gonna do this or not?
It's really, can I do it physically? That is probably number one. And people will say, you know, oh, I already walk 3 miles a day or something. Or some people will say, you know, one of the women on my trip last year had her knee replaced 11 months earlier, you know, so physically being able to do the Camino. Is, is a big thing. So, so I see one of our listeners here asked, what is the real fear? That's a huge one, especially for people who are over a certain age, have had, you know, physical challenges in the past, you know, have lived long enough that they know that, you know, you're not invincible and things can happen. And so, can I do this is really the first thing. Now, once a lot of A lot of the time, by the time we get to our first call, they feel they can because they've decided to, to, to work with me to make it happen. Um, but there is still some of that residual, like, okay, well, what if this happens? What if that happens? Um, so we go over, you know, healthcare in Spain, we go over travel insurance, all of those things. So some of those, like, kind of literally physically, how is this gonna work? How am I gonna make this happen? Is probably one of the biggest things that I see.
It's very interesting because it seems that, um, just like the physical preparation, let's say that people are practicing in their bodies, there is probably more maybe of like a mental preparation, right? Like of training the mind to believe that like, hey, I can do this too. And I think this is like a big part of your work, the way I'm, I'm sensing here. Um, yeah, somebody just said role-playing is a great exercise.
Yeah. Yeah. Role-playing. And also just, you know, the experiences of, you know, sometimes people will bring me a question and I'm like, oh yeah, let me tell you about that. And they're like, oh, that's it? Like, that's all, that's all it takes? I was like, yeah, you know, um, you know, um, for example, the luggage transport, you know, I remember somebody saying to me, you know, so So, so this whole coordinating the luggage, getting from your first point here, I'm like, are you kidding me? They've been doing this for years. Let me tell you, you know, and, and I help people set it up. I mean, it's not every website is a piece of cake to use. Um, and that's kind of more of the challenge than actually will your bag get there. Yeah, your bag's gonna get there because these guys have been doing this for years. It's their business. If a bag doesn't get there, it's gonna get out pretty quickly that they're not good at their job. Um, so, so some of those I would say a lot of the things that people come to me, it's all of those fears, the what-ifs. And there's a phrase that I first heard on the Camino, don't let your fears load your pack or don't let your fears weigh you down. So what are those fears that are weighing you down and let's address them and what are they? And to your point, Carolina, yeah, it's the physical, but it's also that mental of believing you can do it. And so part of asking me, do I think they can do it, is to give them that mental belief that they can. And then I supplement that with stories. I mean, you know, the 89-year-old guy I met doing the Camino with his 3 sons. I mean, I have just so many people I've met that it's very hard for me to meet someone and be like, you, yeah, I don't think you can do this. But yeah, the mental the belief in, in yourself and your ability to do something like this. And it's one of the reasons to go back, way back to the beginning, why this is such a transformative experience. Because even for me, I mean, I'm getting chills just talking about it. The first time, I'll never forget when I got back, my mother said to me, oh, your sister and brother-in-law, although she says she doesn't remember this now, but my mother told me your sister and brother-in-law had bets on how long you would last. And, and I believe it. 'Cause it's not anything like I would have ever done. Did I think I wasn't going to last? I don't think I even let myself think that far ahead. I just thought, I'm just going to keep going and see what happens. So, so yeah, that mental game is a huge piece of this. And without saying specifically, oh, that's what I do, but it's really what I am doing by answering all these questions and making sure you feel ready to go is that your, your head is like, yep, we're doing this. We can do this.
And I can totally see the transformation and how powerful it is because it's almost like, well, if people are in that space of like, they don't believe, but they want to believe, and then they actually do the walk, then part of the integration when they go back, it's like, hey, if I could just shift my beliefs and now I was able to do it, like what else in my life, right? So it's kind of how you bring the Camino. And I think I heard you say that, like how you bring the Camino to your everyday life after that, because if I now believe that I can do this, maybe there are other things in my life that I didn't believe I could do it. And now I'm like, hmm, if I shift a little thing here and, you know, adjust and maybe get support or something like now I can do it.
Yeah. And that's the next thing that I'm, I'm going to be adding to the business is like a monthly group of of, you know, to help people like take those lessons from the Camino and apply them to their lives, whether or not they've walked one. Because so many of the things, you know, the Camino, it's a microcosm for life. There's just so many things like that, that if you just had, you know, this group of people who are there for you to be like, yeah, you can do that. I think you can do that. Here's some ideas on how to, you know, different themes based on the Camino of, you know, And that's a big one. You know, what's something you've been avoiding that you didn't think you could do that potentially you could, but you need whatever, some support, some information, some advice, and how can we make that happen or help someone make that happen? And so my vision for this is that it doesn't, it's not just the Camino, but that it becomes something bigger than the Camino. And for people who do the Camino, Yeah, the Camino is such an influence in your life because you're exactly right, Carolina. It is something so much bigger to be able to say, wow, look what I just did. You know, like, what else am I capable of?
That's beautiful. I think this is the question I find the most fun to ask, and it's been really fun to watch you on this journey. What are you the most proud of from the start of Camino Calls, maybe in your results, but more so even just who you've been becoming through this process yourself? What would you say you're most proud of?
You're going to make me tear up now. I think this— what I'm most proud of is that I've kept going because I think for so many people starting a business, um, you— there are so many obstacles. There are so many things that you're like, oh crap, I never even thought about that. How do— what do I do with that? Um, and anybody out there who has started a business knows this. Um, and, and, and it's— when you're on your own as a solopreneur, it's, it's, it's hard to keep going. But when you've got this group of people that you can message and be like, I'm having a crappy day. Let me tell you what just happened. And all these people respond with, I totally get that. I've been there. Give you some ideas or give you some support. I mean, I think the thing that I'm most proud of is that I've kept going, but I want to kind of make it clear that I didn't do that on my own. It's with the support of a group. And so it's almost like I would even extend that to say, I'm really happy that I chose to be like, okay, I need a community to make this thing go, to help me get this to where I want it to be. And so I'm really proud that all of these things that have come up, you know, not only have I had the support network, but that I've also been very vulnerable and said something sometimes like, here's what's going on with me. Like, I, you know, here's the latest craziness and how am I going to get through this? How am Am I gonna— what's the process in order to whatever? Um, and so I think those are some of the things that I would say, you know, I'm most proud of at this point.
That's awesome. And I, and I love that you show up that way, by the way, because, you know, not only does it allow— that vulnerability allows you to be supported, and, and I, I feel you've received the gift of that, but also it shows everybody else like, hey, I don't have to have it all together. And just, you know, especially in a community like that, just put my best face forward and act like everything's going perfectly splendid when it's not, uh, necessarily. So I think that you have been a great role model and leader in our community in that regard of like letting people see like, hey, I could just like show up as myself and it's, and it's all good. So I would thank you for that as well.
Yeah. And it's part of the process. I think a lot of things like on Substack, there's a lot of people that have tons of followers and they've they've, you know, made their millions and whatever. And a lot of that stuff, it kind of turns me off because I'm like, show me real people. Like, I get that they are real people, they've made tons of money, that's great. But I love what you guys are doing is taking us back to, okay, let's, let's really talk to somebody in the thick of the beginning of it. Um, because it's just, you know, when I was a teacher, I would, I would tell, you know, families, sometimes the parents, I would say, you know, if your kid is down here, and I tell them they can get all the way up here, that's really hard to see. Initially, if I just tell them they can get here, they're more likely to believe me. And so I think that's something that I like that you guys have done is it's not all people who are already here and I'm here, like trying to make this work. You're showing us some people that are, you know, in the messy middle of this. And we're also seeing successful business owners who are still in the messy middle. There's always that gonna be some of that. But it is inspiring to see some people that are still in those beginning stages as well. So I appreciate that you guys have, have shown us that as well.
Yeah, like I, I think it's just beautiful and I relate that to what you are creating for your business as well. It's like this, uh, thing of like creating a community because we, when we get like insights or when you're like, now I'm going to create from that space and now I want to create a business. Like, if you just see what's happening out there, then you think it's like, oh, now I just need to show up on social media consistently. And if I do that and I post 3 times a day for 10 years, I'm going to get somewhere. But guess what? There's a— this is working if you've done all the work here that you don't see people doing out there. And more often than not, nobody's sharing about that, but it has to be done. And it's the hard part and it takes time. And this is when I say that, like marketing is inner work because it's the part of you that you need to know who you are and then your triggers and then what you want and then your goals to then share 3 times a day for a couple of years or whatever, and then get the results. And I think it's, I relate to the Camino as well because maybe you are living a life here, you go for that walk, you had this huge transformation that now you see life completely different. And now you go back to an old life where nobody sees what you see. And then now you have a job that now you want to create a business and then you go back to life and nobody wants to create a business and then everybody thinks you're crazy and then you're there, right? So then being around people, you're walking the same path or a similar path is so, so, so important. And I get emotional too and I have chills because I, it's it's not, it's fun a lot of the times, it's hard a lot of the times, and it's real, right? Like we cry and we laugh and it's like, you know, we do like kind of like you, like I just do stuff that I enjoy and if I don't, I stop, but it doesn't mean that it's not hard in between, right? Uh, but if we have like, hey, can you hold my hand here and let's just cry together a little bit, that's, that's the best.
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.
So, Rebecca, if you zoom out a little bit, I know you shared that you've got this group that's the next big thing you're working on. You're leading trips. How many times a year are you leading trips right now?
I'd love to just do 2 this year. I mean, I haven't done one yet. My first one is basically getting announced within the next couple days. And actually, there's some people who got on my list of the first to hear, and they just got their first email this morning. Um, so yeah, I'm hoping to do two this year, but I've, I've only released the first one at this point, and we'll see how that goes.
So, okay. So yeah, so if you kind of zoom out, and, and again, maybe, you know, maybe it's going to evolve in time, but from, from the level of perception you have in this moment, like, where would you like to see this all going? You know, you have this group, you, um, you're doing multiple of these a year. Like, anything else that you can share about your, your longer-term vision for what you'd like to Right.
One of the things that I miss and that I like about the Camino is I saw, um, uh, Joey posted this earlier today about like 3D connections, like actually meeting people in person in real life. Um, and so I want to be able to facilitate that even more. Like if we have, you know, this month, this, this community group, I would love us to get together in person. Um, it's one of the reasons I started doing group trips because I was like, yeah, it's great for me to help people through Zoom to plan their Camino. And then they get there and they— but I want to be there. You know, I want to, I want to meet them. I want to see them at the finish line, you know? So, so yeah, my vision is that it just becomes more— and I don't know how, but more a way for me to actually meet people in real life and, and help people in real life. I mean, I don't, I, you know, I'm not living in Spain at the moment. I could see myself being back there again. Um, or France or Italy. I've got a few places on my list, but, um, yeah, so I can just see again, like you were saying, Carolina, I don't know the how, but I can feel this somehow. We're connecting people in real life, face to face, you know, skin to skin. You can shake each other's hand or give each other a hug. I would love to make that a bigger part of, of what this is about.
Beautiful. Yeah. So if anyone, you know, we're going to share this replay out afterwards in the recap, and, you know, if anyone's kind of been listening in and, you know, they're curious more about this crazy idea of the Camino or the work of how you can support people, I know you're here on Substack, so this is one of the things that's so easy to kind of say, hey, just check out, out, you know, Rebecca's Substack. But, you know, what would be someone's best first step if they want to kind of step into your world a little bit more and learn about how you support folks?
Yeah, I would say to really, it is happen, you know, go on to Substack, you know, thecaminocalls.com is my website. You can also sign up for the newsletter and it's perfectly fine to start out as an observer and just take a look around, look at the stuff I've written about and see if it inspires you, if it moves you. And, you know, if you want to then look into other options, by all means, you know, get in touch with me. Rebecca@thecaminocalls.com. And, you know, there's a contact page on my website and stuff. But yeah, I think the first step is just getting on there and taking a look around. And if, if you like the way I'm doing it, the way I'm talking about it, great. If, if you want to, you know, whatever, walk for 3 months and stay in hostels, and I'm probably not your person, but I'm sure I can put you in touch with people who— I actually just interviewed somebody not too long ago that did just that. So it So it's, I would just say, you know, you're welcome to look around. Just start there, start slow, start small. Not to say you're never going to get there, but I think sometimes the biggest, the best way to accomplish something is to take that one little step. So just go on there, see what you see. Cool.
Well, thank you so much for being here. Wonderful to see you again. We get the gift of seeing you quite often, but it's really wonderful to share your story. And yeah, just to kind of celebrate with you how it's all been kind of coming together. So yeah, thank you for being here with us today.
Absolutely. Thanks for having me, guys. And thanks again to everyone who, who showed up live and to everyone that's listening after the fact. Um, I appreciate you guys as well for listening. So thanks again.
Yes. Thank you so much for sharing your gift. Thank you so much for your courage of like, keep going even when it gets hard, knowing that, you know, it keeps evolving and it keeps getting better and better. And everybody here with us, thank you so much for watching. And I'm excited to one day do that with you because I don't want to—
So nonetheless, we were just like talking about it earlier this week, Rebecca. So it's like, but we're like, all right, but we can't, we can't let it out of the bag yet because it's just got a few other things to get in place first. But, uh, yeah, we really would love to, to do something with you. So, so yeah, we'll, we'll be talking more about that, I'm sure, down the line. So yeah. Have a great rest of your day. Thank you again, and thank you everyone for being here. I appreciate you all. Take care.
Bye.
