The detour was the training

So yeah, welcome to Sacred Business Stories. This is our weekly Substack Live where we really just have an honest conversation about what it looks like to build a business that's aligned with your deepest truth. And today we are joined by our friend Elizabeth Purvis. Very excited for this conversation. She is an advisor and mentor known for guiding leaders and entrepreneurs to sustainable income leaps. And it sounds like she does that by mastering how they create the reality. So I'm going to let you, let you, Elizabeth, share more about that. But, um, Welcome. We're happy to have you here with us.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so, so stoked to be here and I just appreciate both of you so much and really happy to share space with your peeps and my peeps.

Yes. Thank you so much for being here and thank you everyone, uh, joining right now. If you have any questions, please post it in the chat and we're gonna, we're gonna do our best to respond to them. And I just like to remind ourselves, remind our guests, and remind people listening to us, like why we created Sacred Business Stories. And it's purely for inspiration. Like often we see people doing cool businesses and they've been on forever or like a long time, but we don't know the behind the scenes. And then for some people, they just don't believe that they can start where they are. And for me, it's the opposite. Like it doesn't matter where you are. If you have a calling in your heart, the best time to begin is right now. So we would love for you, Elizabeth, and you take this the way you feel like you want to share with us, but the behind the scenes, like when you started having your business to where you are right now.

Oh my goodness. Well, it has been a bit of a journey. I will start by saying that I am kind of one of the old guard in the online mentoring space. I actually quit my job at the beginning of 2007. My last J-O-B was at the beginning of 2007. So I've been doing this for a really hot minute. And, um, and I've had a lot of shifts and pivots along the way, or just like evolution, I think is a better word. Right. Um, and I'm in the middle of one of them now. So it's, it's really just really interesting. So I, um, have, I started as a business coach and back when kind of business coaching was just starting out. And, um, I really very quickly got, well, first of all, I always knew I wanted to mentor transformational leaders and conscious entrepreneurs. I have a background in Western esotericism. And my people are like tarot people. And my first, you know, my first client base was like my tarot friends, helping them like price and package their services and make money. So I've been doing that for a very, very long time. And, um, you know, I started like one evolution of doing that with the high ticket model. I was one of the first mentors of the high ticket model all the way back in like 2008, 2009. But I really got clear along the way, and this is a whole big, you know, big, big undertaking, big story that, um, you know, what I'm really here to do is teach metaphysics and teach creating your own reality, teach like the stuff I spent years learning in my Wiccan circles and in my Western magic, you know, training ground. And, um, it's really in my business been like, like one will be in front because I need to get the skills with one. So I started with business coaching to really get the framework. Because to me, if we are working magic in any way, and I do use that word, I use the word magic, uh, you know, creating your reality, uh, shifting consciousness and alignment with your will, all that good stuff. For me, it always has to be applied to something. It has to be applied to like an outcome. Doesn't have to be for everybody, but for me personally, I've always been very like, you know, outcome-driven and outcome-focused. So business coaching was a wonderful way to like actually kind of actualize the magic. Does that make sense? And then I took, so I did that for many years and then, you know, but at a certain point, right, I was like, oh my goodness, the magic wants to be out in front, the manifest, I have to create this body of work now. And that was around. So let's see, I started in 2007 and I really did the business coaching and I taught, I think probably a similar kind of a group of people as yourself, right? Like I was working with I used to call them new and emerging, right? In the growth phase, kind of like that up to 6 figures. And, uh, and that was so gratifying for so long, but then I was like, I've got to, I've got to get the, this metaphysics, this body of metaphysics down. Like I've got to really do the, the application of, you know, what this is going to look like. And for me, I'm very interested in what really works, like how it actually works. I have an engineering background as well. And, um, and I did that for a number, for a couple of years, but then like, and I think this is really interesting because I was just like, I got, I got a very clear directive at the very beginning from the goddess. So I'm Wiccan and I have a, you know, I have, I took oaths to basically give back in a certain way. And she came and tapped me on the shoulder and she was like, you're going to be a part of this movement to bring magic to the mainstream. And, you know, I thought that's kind of where I was headed that whole time I was doing the business coaching. I knew the business coaching was kind of in service. And then when I started to really put the manifesting front and center, I think this is the— you want to talk behind the scenes, what I'd not expect when I did that was number one, kind of being bored. Like it didn't quite grab me the way that I thought it was going to at that time. And number 2, I got a really clear directive that like I wasn't done with the business coaching yet. It was like, there's elements of this, of the deeper work of reality creation that you're actually learning, Elizabeth, through the business coaching. And so I had the manifesting out front for a little while. And then I went back to business coaching for like 8 years to get kind of what was missing in terms of., you know, how to market because market is, you know, shifting perception and directing energy on the perceptive level. Right. And so it's only been, it's been like this kind of massive arc. Right. And, but it's only now it's very clear, right? This is what just last year it was like, now's the time to release the business coaching. It served its purpose and you're the magic teacher from here on out. Apply to business.

Yeah, this is so powerful. And I love that because that's, I don't think it needs to be that for everybody, but I, that's my philosophy and that's how I want to live my life that as I evolve, my business evolves with me and it's kind of like a combination, right? Like I'm, I'm doing the work in me and then this is eventually it's going to come reflected on my business. Um, just sharing like your experience, I'm curious, like, it's not that you were like hiding before, it's just like you were not like ready to put that work out there, but now you are. Um, is there anything about like visibility for you in that? Like, you know, because sometimes like I know this Woo identity, like we own it and I have no problem being like the Woo person, but you know, but some people like, oh, I have this business thing here. That business and magic, like sacred and business, like those words could create a conflict. So right now we're like, hey, I'm doing business and my business does magic. Like it's related to magic and putting magic, like how is that for you in terms of like visibility and how do you feel in you?

It's been a whole journey. So there's definitely been visibility stuff along the way, of course. And you know what, I, of course, I'm super, self-reflective and analyze myself probably a little too much. So I'm always in the inquiry of like, are you hiding out? And sometimes the answer is yes, absolutely. And it's like, it's not always cut and dried. I shared sort of the big pivot in the journey really to demonstrate, and then I'll get back to the more of the visibility stuff because I got a lot to say there, um, to demonstrate that like, it's okay to not have it look exactly like you think it's going to look. You know, it's okay to take your time and develop the body of work that really matters. While you are serving fully. Like, I've never ever felt like I wasn't serving fully as a business coach. It's all related. And it's like, you know, business coaching and life coaching are just like a hair's breadth apart, and life coaching is magic. So it's all sort of, you know, it bleeds together. But there were definitely— there's definitely visibility stuff along the way. I've got, you know, I was as a magic practitioner, I was in the closet to my family for 10 years, which was very, very, very hard. So I was raised by two amazing, glorious humans who also happened to be staunch conservatives, like hardcore conservatives. So I was sort of the, you know, um, the black sheep in my family, so to speak. And my dad's Catholic. And I was like, you know, I've, I'm part of a traditional witchcraft, you know, tradition. It's like, it was that, that was all very, very challenging. But what's interesting is that when I started my, my first, the first iteration of my business was called Marketing Goddess. And I was very clear. And I remember there was this moment where, um, you know, I was, I was just starting out. I was just getting off the curb. I just quit my job and I was trying to figure all this stuff out. I had no idea what I was getting myself into. And back in 2007, like, you know, the resources that were just not the same, you know, there was plenty out there. I had enough, right? But it wasn't the same. And I was sitting on my bed with the two black cats and my husband, and I had a deck of archetype cards, Carolyn Mays's archetype cards, and I was looking for something to call myself. I was like, I gotta have a moniker here. And the thing that came out was Goddess. And I said to, I said to my husband, Levan, I was like, I can't call myself that. Are you freaking kidding me? And he's just sitting there reading his book and he's like, yeah, that's the only thing you can call yourself. And I was like, oh. No, you know, but at that moment I decided that I wasn't going to hide the magic practitioner and I wasn't going to make a big deal of it either. It was just going to be this integrated, integrated thing. You know, I was going to start to sign my emails with Wiccan, you know, my email signature used to be bright blessings and massive success. Right. And it's like, I would have these little things. So I had no, it was interesting because like I spent all this time in the closet. I was like, I'm just not going to do that anymore. And yet at the same time, and you know this really well, Carolina, because you're so, um, you know, so masterful at expansion and capacity, right? As we get bigger and bigger, we hit up against those capacity limits, right? We hit up against the like terror barrier. And, um, and I definitely had that along the way, but what I, what I didn't do was stop. Do you know what I mean? There were, I could definitely like fall into like, well, I've got to work on this more because I was looking at your questions that you said ahead of time, you know, how do we experience resistance? Overthinking. Hello, it's going to surprise no one who's listening to me for 5 minutes, you know, but at the same time, like, I won't let it go. Like, maybe there's a little delay, but I won't let it go. And I do feel it's so important to have precision. So it's not, you know, I think for myself, it's like, I'm always asking for me, it's like conscious awareness is the number one thing. Are you putting the brakes on because you're scared out of your mind? You know, and then, okay, what do you want to do about that? And sometimes the answer is, well, I want to hang out. I would rather tell myself that a thousand times over and say, okay, then this is what, this is our next step. This is our next move. Right. And then come back to it. So there's a lot of visibility stuff along the way. And of course we manage it. And you two are just masterful at helping your people manage visibility stuff. But I just feel like, you know, for me, what's so important is keeping going no matter what and having the vision and being committed to the vision. And even in this current iteration, so I've been blessed to have Phil, you know, behind the scenes a little bit, helping me get off the curb with Substack. And he's watched a little of this process, right? It's been 90 days. So now I'm in a different place. Now I'm just like, 90 days is too much of the foot on the brake, you know?

Go, go, go.

Right. But at the same time, but then I go, I sort of look at that objectively. I was like, you know, oh, you know, girl, like, this is fine. But like, I'm the whole time that I've been in this kind of messy middle, I've had my eyes like locked on here's the vision and here's where we're going. And I am more than willing to just be in this discomfort, even if I'm not, I get pissed at myself about it and everything, but I won't, you know, we're not quitting. Does that make sense? Yeah. And I feel like I'm really good at that. I do. And I, that's a skill that I developed early on, you know, it's like I used to tell Leland again, way back in the day, I'd be like, I'm moving through mud. I feel like I'm moving through mud, you know? And one time he was like, you're like a tank. I was like, no woman wants to be called a tank. But then he drew me a picture of a tank. He's an artist. He's just like, you know, this is you. You're not going to stop. And I, and I, you know, I'm really grateful to myself for having that skill. And I'll just, you know, put that on the altar for someone who wants to pick that one up.

Yeah, that's the, you know, the phrase that we use often with our clients is no hurry, no pause. And I feel that's what you've been demonstrating. Like, as someone who has been been behind the scenes a little bit with you. And that's what I've seen from you. You're allowing yourself the time that's necessary for it to come through, but you haven't stopped. So even when it feels like maybe it's moving a little bit slowly, I can say I've been watching, as you said, and that's what I've observed is maybe the timeline isn't exactly what you expected, but you haven't stopped. And the other thing that I really appreciated that you said is this idea of— because we were talking a little bit about values before. Before we came live and this, this, like, it seems to me that this, I would call it like radical honesty and it's not easy and we all have our blind spots, but I love that you're able to, like, if we're able to be honest with ourselves and kind of say like, hey, you know what, I see I'm stalling or I see it's fear and I need to pause. That's so much better than like, kind of like, you know, acting as if it's not there, right? And so, and I feel through that honesty, that's where we can start to, you Yeah, breakthrough. And so, so yeah, I'm curious more about like, you know, because, you know, one of the things we see a lot with our, with our audience is we have a lot of people who've had long successful careers. They've, they've hit, they've ticked all the boxes, you know. And I see, I feel that you're someone in that, in that category as well. But then they're in the cycle of, of when they, they often arrive to us, they're in the cycle of reinvention where, you know, perhaps some of the contacts in the areas of expertise, they don't kind of hold up quite the same. And I know what you're doing is, you know, there is, there's a connection there. But, um, yeah, I'm just curious, what, what has that been like, your own, your own process of dealing with the fear and resistance and identity? And, you know, what, are there any specific practices that have allowed you to kind of, you know, take that kind of no hurry, no pause stance as you, as you've been moving forward with what you're creating now?

Yeah, thank you. Well, I really appreciate I'll come back to that in a second. I just want to really name, um, cause I, this has been in the background, but I haven't really named it for myself. So you just named it like the, the old expertise, the, the, the expertise that you, that we've spent years developing is direct response copy messaging offers, you know, really making money out of thin air with words. And, um, so, and then enter the energetics that go along with it.

Right.

But so much of that is applicable to what I'm doing, but it's very strange that I won't be doing it in the same way. You know, I won't be doing it in the same way. There'll be, you know, certain inroads into my world. Like our, our core program right now is just a, you know, uh, an entry-level membership called Seven Figure Frequency Circle. And it's got one business coachy piece in it. And like, it's going to be a kind of a home for my work.

I'm going to.

This was your idea, Phil, to really take my body of work on the business coaching side and make it available for people as a done-for-you kind of an option. But it's like going to be so weird not doing it, you know, like not doing it in the same way, like having it be in little, little, like, and just have a different relationship with it. So, um, I've really just started to notice that and didn't have words for it. And, um, I've, I've, there have been, there's been moments where I've just been like, you know, sitting with myself with it and kind of being, being able to kind of really experience and feel in my body what that's going to be like, you know? Um, so, and of course being and sitting and feeling and regulating is a big, big, big piece with resistance across the board. Uh, but, uh, that's, uh, that's a huge one. So on the, like on the resistance band, I just really appreciate you naming that because it's like, I wasn't even aware, you know, because it's like, anyway, you can hear me, you see my brain processing this in real time. Um, for me on the, on resistance, uh, it's very, very important to regulate before, regulate after. That's a real big one for me. So I will sit down and I'll, You know, take 4 or 5 minutes, minute and a half of deep breathing before I do something hard. Right. Um, and then after celebrate, because that creates the pathways in your brain. Like, let's do more of that instead of it being shut down on the, on the fear front. Um, that's very simple, but another big one for me, and this is so my model of creating reality, we have four, what I call four magical tools, perception, energy, faith, which is your ability to take action on what you can't see, right? It's your ability to move when you can't see. And then choice and perception and energy are kind of my, the two that I work with the most. Perception, probably in the number one, right? Professional coach, copywriter, you know? And so I really am. Like one of my own personal practices is just self-awareness, self-awareness. It's, we need to be careful not to go into like, you know, navel gazing or whatever, but I really pay a lot of attention to what that thing I do, right? I have a neuro-linguistic programming background as well. So we were just like, so there you are in front of the refrigerator. You know, there's things that we do that kick off, you know, chains of behavior. And when we can be aware of number one, the pattern, and then what we do when the pattern starts, then we can catch ourselves. Like, I, I feel like this is a way, like, underrated now, especially tool, right? It's so interesting. I've been in this long enough to know, to know that, like, when we first kind of, you know, in 2006, 2007, 2008. Conscious awareness and kind of classic, you know, action steps like that kind of, you know, coaching was the thing. And now we have all the subconscious, then, you know, the subconscious stuff came online and then the nervous system stuff came online and then trauma healing stuff came online. I am a big fan still of using your neocortex and your cognitive awareness as a tool. I think we actually don't use it quite as much sometimes as we could now that we have all these other beautiful tools on the chessboard. So for me, it's very much like, okay, what is it I'm doing right now? So I have to, you know, I will catch myself in patterns of the overthinking, you know, and some of that comes from, you know, I just was, I was diagnosed ADHD, you know, last year, late, late, which was like a whole thing. But I know now that some of that overthinking comes from needing to have the map, as I like to call it, you know, searching for the map. So I'll notice if I'm like. Doing that, and then I can make that conscious choice. So becoming aware of like what the patterns are and what it is I'm doing as much as possible, because we can't, can't catch everything. Um, but that's a real big one for me. You know, I just like, I like to look at the facts. I'm like, okay, so Phil and I met for the first time in April, uh, in March. No, excuse me. It was February 23rd. I think it was. And so I was kind of watching detail. You know, and it's like, Ibas, like you're 6, you're 6 weeks in, you're 8 weeks in.

Okay.

What's happening? I really spend a lot of time like tracking what I do and doing the pattern interrupt and making the conscious choice. And sometimes the conscious choice is, damn it, I've got to figure this out more. Like I literally can't do it. Right. But that's a big one. And then I will also say. I really can't stress this enough, is, is getting the outside support, right? Having someone at your side. And I know this is like a coachy thing to say, but it's true. I mean, I've been periods where I don't have a mentor or a teacher or someone, you know, watching the goings-on and the blind spots are real. Like so much of building our business. Especially once you get off the curb, right? Once you get off the curb, you're making, you know, $80K, six figures, whatever it is, then it really becomes about like watching for the blind spots so that you're not creating, you know, you're not breaking things as you go along. That was a really interesting frame, you know, to, that was a really interesting thing to discover, you know, um, not expected, right? A business is about catching blind spots. You know, it's like seeing your blind spots as best you can. And you, and the whole thing about blind spots is you can't see them all. So, we have, we need to have, uh, we need to have collaborators, we need to have mentors, we need to have business besties, all that stuff. So important.

Yeah. And I feel like this is something, and it's funny you said that, like, it is kind of like a coachy thing to say, but I guess maybe like, like that's my experience too, you know? And it's like, we, we all have these blind spots. And the other thing that I, I've caught it in myself and I see it in others too, is like our own ego identity getting in the way. Like, I'll tell you a story. Like, when we first started this business, um, Sacred Business, like, it was a whole very similar to you. It was a whole way, new way of working. Like, I've been doing like fractional CMO type stuff and working behind the scenes in people's business, and people were paying me really, really good money to like do this messaging and all this stuff for them. And then I was like, when we started this business and Carolina both decided to wind down our other projects, that was the first thing I had to come to terms with. I was like, I need to get out of my own way here because I can't see what I can't see. I'm so in this. And yes, I can do this for other people. And the fact that I need outside counsel for this doesn't negate any of my own skill. And so that was like the first thing we did. It was really scary because like we wound down our other businesses, we're like going all in on this. And the first thing I did was made a 5-figure investment to someone that I trusted to just help me see, help us see, you know, the blind spots. And so, yeah, this is a really, really important aspect, I think, of getting that clarity because we can't see it all ourselves.

Yeah. And we will miss it. Like, I'll just name, just to your point, like, I'll name one of my big blind spots. I mean, I do offers and messaging for myself and— or sorry, do offers and messaging for other people and myself too. I've done a lot for myself. And there, there comes a point where you need to get the outside eyes. You really do. And I just, like, it was, I don't know, maybe like a month and a half ago, two months ago, I was like, you need to like get someone on this message who isn't you. And for me, that always, because I get attached to what I want to sell and I get attached to what I want to say and I get attached to how it's got to sound and all of that. You know, um, and when we, when we are attached to what it has to look like, like we just, we miss the opportunities. We miss the things that are right there that we can't see, you know, um, because we're not in the frequency of allowing in that awareness. So yeah, I went and was like, oh, this is just dumb. You need to like hire someone too sweet, like right now. You know? Yeah. And for me, it was actually data. I was like, this isn't converting the way it's supposed to. I mean, for lack of a better word, like, I know I can make more sales than this. I know this needs to reach more people and there's something off. Go get it handled. And that's another thing too. That's one of my favorite phrases. Go get it handled. Like if I find that I've got a stuck point or I've got something that's really getting in my way. Um, once I'm in the done sitting, like, cause again, like I said, I'll make that conscious choice. I need to sit with this for a little bit, but then it's like, go get it taken care of. I don't want it slowing me down.

Yeah. One thing that I just want to point, uh, to some of the things that you shared that I think it's so important. Like you said that, uh, oh, and I like to use my neocortex and it's like inviting the mind in like self-awareness. And this is something that I. I connected to myself and it's part of like the method that I developed for Radiant Flow that we, like the spiritual woo woo, like we tend often to know more than what we can execute, right? Like we know so much and we can speak, like you mentioned faith and faith is also like one of the sacred, one of the frequencies of the sacred business because when you start like tapping into your heart, It's absolutely necessary that you understand faith, but you take action from that space, which is like, I don't know. And I'm going anyways. Right. And to the thing that we share with, like, and you mentioned like building capacity, that's kind of like the importance. Like we always have a conversation at the beginning of every single class, because it doesn't matter how much you know about something, if you cannot do anything or something, or, you know, with that knowledge that, you know, And I think you were just pointing like self-awareness is the first thing, like, oh, I know that faith exists, but then, okay, so tell me what you do with that information. And I think it's so, so, so important for, you know, people that are connected in this like spiritual path and like discovering more of who they are and bringing that into their business, that the invitation is like, great, you know, but knowing more might not be the, you know, the solution, but what you can do with the things that you already know, probably it's going to like make the difference for you and take you where you want to go.

Yes. Yes. Insight without action is just disembodied, whatever. You know, one of my, one of my NLP teachers used to say information is just a rumor until it's in the body. And, um, you know, so when we get the insights, then it, then it's, thank you. So it's so funny, like action for me is just second nature, you know, and So I, I don't always name that that's happening. Right. And in fact, it was just someone recently was like, you need to actually tell people to have the insight. And then how are we going to translate that into the external? Because it's so ingrained for me. Um, and, uh, so I appreciate you naming that, you know, it's like, what are we going to do? And the thing I will say about that though, that I find really helpful is like the actions that we take are often super micro. To start, right? It's like, do the next small thing because that starts to train your brain and your body that you can do the next thing and the next thing and the next thing. Um, and it's so important, you know, when we, when we do have the, when we have the, I don't want to say overactive mind, cause I love my mind and I love how active it is, you know, but it's like, we've got this part and it's got to, it's got to make its way down into this. You know, uh, and connect those two. And action is really, in my experience, what does that. It's like action's what grounds, you know?

Yeah, it's movement, right? Like, uh, it's moving, moving life. And I'm like, what are you going to do with that? And this is actually like how you're going to create your reality using your words, right? Like you can't be up in the mountain, like just meditating. Like you then need to come down the mountain and talk to people and invite people and, you know, like, share your insights or anything.

And the way that we actually create change, like, we actually create change physically, is by embodying, doing it. Like, there's no going away on them. Well, I mean, there is sometimes, but like, we go away on the mountaintop. Like, every major transformation in my life that I've ever created, it's come by being in motion and being in the discomfort. You know, um, I've mentioned my husband a couple of times. He and I went on a big attachment journey. Like we had a, you know, we, we have a kiddo. She just, she's actually just turning 13 today. And, um, you know, we realized about 18 months in like, oh no, there's something going on here. And, you know, we, we went in and, uh, and did some couples counseling and they reflected back to us the attachment stuff. And, uh, it's like, that was just a fierce initiation for like 2 years of like crazy nervous system stuff going on. Right. Cause you know anything about attachment theory, avoidance and anxious, we just, we set each other off. Right. We didn't even know what was going on. We'd already been married for a long time, but it was, I bring this up because it was really an example of like the transformation came from being in the fire and taking the action along the way. You know, in that particular context, you know, doing the things that we were doing, doing the practices between us, doing the stuff with the— and it was the, it was the, the doing of it that I could literally see my brain like rewiring, you know, that's how it works. And it works in, in business too, because it's like, if you're scared, if you're terrified to speak or put something out there or whatever, the small, you know, regulating and taking the small steps, because it's only action too. It's only aligned action. By aligned action, I mean the action that's actually going to bring you the outcome, right? The actual step that's going to, the locomotion that's going to bring the thing in. It's only aligned action that brings it from the non-physical to the physical. We are such powerful creators. We have thoughts and thoughts are created instantly, you know, in the non-physical. But the only thing that brings it into the physical is the, is the action that you take.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So good. Oh, another thing I would love to touch on. So I know, you know, having been in this kind of world, I'll call it, for since I think you said 2007, I know you know this, but one of the things I think people really struggle with and one of the challenges they're faced with is this idea of like, how do I make meaningful and authentic connections while sharing their message? And so For me, I'll just speak from my experience. Relationship— if it weren't for relationships, I would have gotten nowhere in my progress. I can literally trace back every big moment of expansion to relationships. And there's another part of this that I'd be curious to explore. So that I'd love to hear how you, how you approach connection. But also, it was interesting. We talked about this with the guest last week that a lot of our people struggle with this idea of like strategy, like strategy as it relates to connection and authenticity. And it's my belief that strategy and authenticity actually can coexist. And I, and I think a lot of people are challenged by that idea. And so, yeah, I'm curious what your personal approach is to connection and what advice might you have for someone who's trying to share, you know, what they have to offer more consistently.

Yeah. Oh, what a great— oh gosh, there's a lot of things I could say here. So first I will say that connection and partnership and relationships, that's been how I built my business from the beginning. You know, I had a small spate of running ads in the middle of my— when I was teaching metaphysics, I had a manifesting course that kind of, you know, it really still has the foundations, right, that I still teach from. But I filled it with ads. But most everything I have done, all of how I've grown my list, all of how I've built my community, it's all been through connection and relationships and partnerships. All of it, you know? And, um, so my, you know, my approach is first of all, that it's, it's a big piece of why we're doing all this in the first place. It's the first, the understanding is like, your business is about relationships. Like that's really what a business is about. It's not even if we're selling widgets, as I like to say, you know, even if I was selling low carb functional food that fills my feed, right? The low carb donuts. So the, like, even if I was like selling that, or I'm selling like the latest hair care thing or whatever. Really impactful brands are the ones that have a real relationship with their people. And they know that there are brilliant, beautiful humans on the other side of it. You know, like, that's what it's all about. So I look from the— and that's also what makes it fun. And I think you can really relate to this, Phil, because I, you know, the whole point is to, is to like be connected and have fun and be with people, you know. And this is coming from someone who's super introverted, gets sensory flooding from too much peopling, like, you know, but even so, like, we just, we have, we have management tools for all of that, you know what I mean? Um, so my approach has always been like the way, the fast, first of all, the shortest, fastest path to growing this business. I just knew that it was through other people. You know, I would have people who saw me at my mentor's event or whatever, and then they would just call me up and 2 minutes later they were paying me $10,000. That's a real— that's relationships, you know? So I just saw it as like, this is the way to get my workout and it's my way to really, um, uh, build a field, right? Build the field of energy through which source can work, right? Everything we desire, everything we're creating. I just said a minute ago, like aligned action is how it comes into being. It comes through other people. Right? Everything comes from source through other people. And so I just have always really prioritized it as, as a result. And I try to keep, I try to take in terms of actually, you know, taking the action and doing the thing, because the same can all for what I just said is it's also true of clients, right? How do we share our work? Um, through relationship and connection. For me, it's very much about remembering that, you know, people really need what I have. And if I can step out of my own stuff to make the connections with people so they can decide for themselves whether they're a divine client or not. And I do, I believe in divinely contracted clients. Like I've always felt that way. Like there's people that are really here to receive the work. Again, it goes back to universal law, law of supply You cannot have a desire without the way already be being made present, right? Demand and the demand specifically, right? If you want to offer something, um, that you're the supply in that equation and the supply is not coming unless the demand is already there for it, you know, in some way, shape, or form. It doesn't mean you don't have to position it and do all the stuff that we do. But, um, you know, that really, because when I got started, I didn't know what I had. So I was a systems engineer. Who was running around learning magic on the weekends and hanging out with comics artists because I thought I was gonna be a comics writer. That's a whole other story. You know, I thought I was gonna be a fiction writer and it turned out I was a marketing writer and that I really wanted to be, cuz that, that was some cognitive dissonance, I'll tell you that. Because I had all these relationships with these amazing people and people were on my bookshelf, you know, when I was a kid. And, um, anyway, but like, I was just, I was just like, holy, holy cow. Like if I, so I had no, no experience when I found marketing and I was like, I think I actually want to teach this. Like, I, this is like cool. This is like amazing. Like I, this is magic. Like I got to figure this out and I want to teach it. I had no experience. I'm teaching these tarot readers how to build their business. I have no friggin idea, you know, and I could just, and I was making at that time. Like $1,000 a month coming out of a six-figure job, right? That was a whole other interesting dynamic. You want to talk about like the money stuff that we know about now that I wasn't aware of then? Like it was wildly uncomfortable for me to not be making any kind of money, right? But I remember just thinking, and I remember going like, I don't have any experience. Like, what the hell? But then I was like, well, wait, marketing has a lineage. I know I'm kind of jumping around a little bit. Marketing has a lineage. It's got a lineage that's bigger than me. It's got threads of energy with people who know what the friggin' A they're doing. That's way bigger than me. And all I have to do is plug into that and show up and do my work and help these people, help my friend who's making $1,000 as a tarot reader and she needs to be making $5,000 a month. You know? So I had this like, you gotta make the relationship with the people way more important than your— and your relationship with the work, right? Way more important than whatever is going on here. And we honor, we always like, we don't deny whatever the fuss up is about. Like we don't go into, you know, we don't try to like bypass whatever's happening internally because that, That never ends well, right? But I always, I just, I'm, even as I'm having this conversation, I'm kind of taken back to our old apartment in Brooklyn. And I'm just like, I remember walking around the apartment going like, Sasha needs me. This person needs me. This person needs me. And they would go and they would, they would go and make $5,000 a month. And I, you know, I didn't know how to charge. I didn't know anything about low ticket or high ticket then. This was like right as I was. Right as I was starting. High Ticket kind of came online maybe a year or two after that. And, um, you know, it was really like, okay, I got two things here. Number one, I've got like my ability to help people. And number two, and I know that I know more than them just because I've spent more time reading the book and I'm going to be in it. I'm going to be in it and I'm going to, if I can't figure it out, I'm going to stick with it until I do figure it out with that. And this marketing is so much bigger than me. This is people going all the way back to like, you know, as one of my teachers used to say, guys selling each other, you know, guys in togas in ancient Rome selling each other chariots. Okay. That's not all about me then, you know? So it's a couple of different threads to your question, Phil, but you know, ultimately it's like the relationships are what this is all about. And you get to really, you know, even with your partners, your partners, they've got divinely contracted clients through you, you know, that they're going to find through you. And it's just like this beautiful field that gets created when we really just like make all that more important, you know, and acknowledging that it's hard to do that sometimes, but that always, I get excited by it, you know, I get excited about it. And that, that really helped too. Still does. Yeah.

There are like so many, like, A lot of gold in everything that you shared. And if we could just like, we could spend like hours and hours just like breaking that down and talking about, and what really is with me right now is what you said about like, hey, it's not about me. There's a way of doing it and I'm here to serve. So if I can just get off my own way, right? Because it's about service and it goes back to the beginning of the conversation about visibility. Like, how do you heal all of that? Just. Be visible and make serving people more than your opinion about what social media is, about what showing up online is, and just do what you got to do, right? So I truly appreciate that because when we tap into this, like, this is service, like, nothing can really stop you because it's not about you, even though you are the perfect vessel for that thing because you have the combination of everything. So yes, you're part of the equation, but at the end of the day, it's part of the equation and there's something big. I always say like, it's not your business, it's coming through you business. And if what happens is true, then you just do what you got to do. Are you comfortable on camera? It doesn't matter. If you got to do it, you do it. Do you love writing? It doesn't matter. Like you learn how to love that because your passion is truly, it's devotion to what you came here to do, honestly.

Yeah. Yeah. A thousand percent. And you know, I, I love being on camera mostly. I love writing, you know, but there are things in my business that are not my strengths at all. And it's like, I would so not want to be doing them or even kind of managing someone else doing them. But like, we do it because it's part of the, you know, the gift that we're bringing. And I would also just say, like, you know, when you, when you show up and you're being of service, you're also going to receive for that. Like, it's a beautiful exchange. Right. It's an exchange of energy you're receiving. You know, I learned so much from my clients and then there's the monetary, you know, receiving, which is, I am a stan for people making scads of income, however they want to do it, you know? Um, but it's all part of this exchange, right? It's all part of like the intake outtake, you know, um, of, uh, of being in this like dance that we're in as humans, if you want to get really, really meta about it, but it's profound, you know, and I'm appreciating we having this conversation because as you were talking, Caroline, I realized, you know, when I do get like the foot on the brake past the, you know, kind of the points that we were talking about, there's always been some way that like I'm making myself more important than the bigger thing, you know, and that's just, it's like, it's all part of it. Right. But it's, it's hard sometimes to look that in the eye. But I will say that when I really do look it in the eye, that's usually where stuff starts to shake loose. It's like people are asking for what you're bringing, you know? And you get to be the student. It's always your choice. It's always your choice, right? Your conscious choice. But it's like we have that, what I call desire, right? We have the urge for expansion, the urge for self-expression, the urge for more life. As Wallace Wattles likes to say, the Science of Getting Rich guy, you know, that's coming, that's put in you by God, Goddess, you know, and it wants to be expressed somehow. So we have this drive, you know, and we get to really, when we follow that and make that more important and the connection more important, then it is infinitely easier, you know.

Yeah. I want to ask you here, um, because we're getting like almost on top of the hour here, but we could just stay here for many hours more, but it's connected to that. And I think it's connected to choice. And I would love to link the essay that you wrote about responsibility to this, um, conversation, because for me, like understanding and embodying the concept of 100% responsibility, and you actually say 1,000%. 100% responsibility, I think is what, like, this is how I build capacity. This is how I keep showing up. It's, you know, it's a concept that I need to take action from. So all the rest works. And I would love to hear your perspective. And if you could just go a little deeper on that.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

We were talking about this a little bit beforehand and I was like, yay, because I could talk about this all day. And I, I think I told you before we got rolling here, a major aha that I had a couple of years ago is realizing that 100% personal responsibility is actually my top value, which just feels like such a weird thing to say. Like, who does that? What? I remember like, who has that on the list of values, right? Like, but I'm like, it really, it really is. It's like the top thing. And then my other top 3 are love, freedom, and creativity. And they're the other top ones, right? I always say, you know, it's like My favorite person is my daughter and my other favorite person is, you know, my husband, right? So we're all the same, but, um, it's, uh, the, so here's the, here's the thing, a couple things about personal responsibility as I explain this concept. It is about, so first of all, what is it? It means accepting 100% ownership of everything in your life, period. No exceptions ever. And I always want to acknowledge a couple things right up front when I say that. Number one. Edgy concept, really friggin edgy. That is edgy. That is, you know, that is like the ultimate magician's move, first of all. But it is, we're not, that is not a part of our culture, you know, right off the turnip truck, right? Like it's not. And number two, when we say that, we, you know, we're not about bypassing or ignoring all the stuff outside of you and the collective conditions that we are a part of. Systemic racism exists, systemic oppression exists, like all the things that we deal with. Like not everyone has the same access to consciousness, right? By simply the structure we're living in. Does that make sense? So I just like to acknowledge that right up front. And so with the idea of 100% responsibility, 100% of the time, 1000% of the time, What you are doing, first of all, it's not the same as taking the blame. You are not taking ownership for what others do. You are not taking ownership for, you know, other people's moves and, you know, the things that are, that really are happening to you. Because I do believe we create everything, but I also believe at the same time, things happen to us, right? It is not about taking the blame. It is about saying, I have choice in this situation. It is about acknowledging your role because even when things happen to us, we always have a role. Even if the role is, well, I happen to be standing there. I happen to be born during this particular time. I happen to be, you know, I happen to find myself here, like who the heck knows throughout all the lifetimes, places, and spaces, right?

Cool.

Great. Here I am. I had a role in that. I don't know what it was consciously, who knows, but I did. And here I am. And what it's ultimately about is using your power of choice and taking your power of choice back. It is about taking your creative power back because when you accept 100% ownership all the time, period, no exceptions ever, that gives you agency to respond instead of react. Someone responded to my essay, it was Michelle, uh, one of my friends, Michelle Barr. She's like, oh no, it was Patti Keating. Responsibility. We have the ability to respond, you know? And that means that you go from being at effect to being at cause. I want everyone to be at cause. I want everyone to understand that they're at cause. It doesn't mean that you do it all alone. It doesn't mean that's like, I said this in the essay, it's like, that's not even possible. Like, why are we having that convo? Like, that's not even, that's not even a thing, you know? But it gives you the opportunity to be the creator. And if it were nothing else but like a mental exercise for that reason, it's worth it. My dear trainer in neuro-linguistic programming is a man named Carl Buckheit. Excuse me. He's one of the co-founders of NLP Marin, which is where I got trained. And he used to say like, there is no downside. There's no downside. And I would agree, you know, because of that agency piece, because of that agency piece, we get to change. We get to transform. Humans are the only life forms on the planet with the ability to choose. And taking ownership is what gives us the ability to choose times, well, times a thousand, right?

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for sharing. This is so important. And I love the way you introduced the topic because it doesn't take away trauma. It doesn't take away stuff that happened to you that like you heard it was painful and like, this is all there, but then what you do with that is like what truly matters. So, uh, thank you so much for sharing.

Yeah, exactly. And it doesn't change what other people do either. I just reiterate that again. It's like someone did a thing. That's, that's like a hell no, you know, like that happened and it was not okay and didn't matter like where you were or where you weren't like that. None of that changes, but you have the ability to respond. Right. Yeah. I get really passionate. Cool. You could tell. Anyway. All right.

Yeah. And I'm totally with you. And it's, it's, it's, it's so interesting how people, if you can flip that understanding of that around, it becomes like the ultimate, uh, gift, right? Like to hold that position. But it's, um, it is an edgy idea and it's, and until you, it takes a certain, took me a long time, I feel, to get my head around that idea. And it's not something I think that happened overnight, but when that started to click, actually Carolina had a bit, I feel, had a good part in helping some of that solidify for me. And, um, it really has the ability, well, at least your whole thing, reality creation, it really has the ability change your entire experience.

Yeah. And I'll just say too, you know, the danger of it, of course, or there's lots of, it is edgy and it's, you know, it really requires being able to hold multiple places and spaces at the same time, you know, and one of the, for myself, I can dip into over-responsibility. I can dip into taking all the responsibility on. I can absolutely, high five. Like I could absolutely do that. And so, but that's a practice for me to go, no, you know, just because I'm accepting my power of choice does not mean that I have to control everything. It doesn't mean that I have to do it by myself. Again, that's not a thing. Um, you know, it's, uh, it's, it, it really, it's such a beautiful avenue for mastery in that way too. Yeah.

Well, thank you so much for being here with us and being generous with your time. Like, I know you're relatively new to Substack, but you're doing some really cool stuff already. So one of the things I love about doing these is it's so easy to be like, oh, you know, how is someone going to find your work? Well, just by the virtue of being here on Substack, that makes things pretty easy. But if someone has been following along or maybe they catch the recap or the replay later and they get curious about your work, like what would you suggest is kind of that first kind of step to come play and learn more about what you have to offer?

Yeah, thank you. So First step I would say is my book. We have not talked about my book at all, and that is okay. But my book is, I will toot my own horn a little bit. It is, the stuff in there is really incredible and it's a whole, I won't go down the rabbit hole of exactly what it is. It is a framework for instantly, very, very quickly shifting into the frequency of a 7-figure leader business owner and being able to take action from that place. And the whole framework is in the book. It's a great introduction to my worldview. And if you are someone who's feeling like you're at an income ceiling, whether you're just starting out or you're, you know, $500K or a million in, um, the framework in that book will help you very quickly shift that. Uh, so that's the first thing. It's like Seven Figure Goddess book. And it's, it's kind of my main thing I'm going to have everyone on Substack go look at, cause it really, it's the, it's the orientation, you know, it is a bit, it's got the business coaching context, but everything in there can be really mapped over to a lot. So 7figuregoddessbook.com is where you can get the book and it's free. It's a free download. It's called 7 Figure. It's the name of the book is 7 Figure Goddess. Um, and, uh, it's also available on Amazon if you like hard copies. And it's really like, it's this on Substack, right? Cause I'm in this pivot. Kaylee and I are actually, Kaylee's my operations lead. We're talking about like what What URL are we going to use? Like, we haven't even really decided. Um, so 7 Figure Goddess is kind of where my old business coaching stuff has been, and that, that link will continue to redirect wherever. Um, the book is the, is by far the best place to start. And then here on Substacks, Describing Unselves. I'm just getting started and like all the stuff, Phil, that you kind of watch me go through is clearing out and I'm getting really, really, really excited about making this like my online home. And you two have so, so inspired me, um, the way that you've built community, the way that you bring people together, the way that you use this platform as a way to build relationships and connections. And, you know, and Phil, you and I were talking about it, like, that's what this platform is engineered to do, and it's going to be hard for people to mess with that. And I'm all here for it. So here on Substack, 7figuregoddessbook.com. And yeah, 7 Figure Goddess will go wherever we end up. Yeah.

Thank you so much. And yeah, we're excited to follow, continue to follow your journey. And I'm sure we'll be seeing a lot more of you here now that you're here with us on Substack. And yeah, we'll make sure that people have the link to that book when they're checking out the recap. And yeah, genuinely appreciate you being here with us.

Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you. And thank you to everyone for sharing space with me, everyone here in the, in the chat, everyone who's taken time out of their day to be here and catch this conversation.

Yes. Thank you. Thank you everyone. And thank you for being with us. It was very nice to get to know you a little more. And next time I see you in person, I would love to go for a coffee to keep going with the conversation.

Oh yeah. No, I love, I love your content too. I'm like, like, like, like. Like, you and I have got a lot of the same. It seems we have a lot of the same, um, feeling about a lot of this stuff, which is so cool.

Yes. Yeah. So thank you so much.

And, um, we see you around more soon. Bright blessings.

Much love, everybody.

Bye. Ciao.