The Meaningful Exchange: Elena Brower on Sacred Business, Authentic Pricing, and Finding Balance

What kind of tea do you have, by the way? That looks delicious.

It's so delicious. This one is a silver fir. It's very, very first. Very much for spring. Silver hair green tea with jasmine flowers from living Tea.

Very nice.

Very nice. Yes.

It's a nice way to start us off.

It is. See, it's always good.

Cheers.

Cheers. I wish I had mine, but. Yeah. So thank you so much for joining us and for those that are jumping on live with us, this is Sacred Business Stories. And really, this is our weekly substack Live, where we're just having an honest conversation with entrepreneurs and other people who. About what it looks like to build a business that aligns with your deepest truth. And we'll share your official bio here in a minute, but today we're joined by Elena Brower. And, yeah, we're so excited to have you here with us.

Really wonderful, wonderful to be here. Thank you.

Yes, thank you so much, Elena, for being here. And just a reminder, we create secret business stories to inspire one. We feel very inspired when we have this type of conversations, but to inspire you that are watching here for possibilities. So sacred business for us is that business that you can create, bringing the wholeness of who you are, like, all your gifts, all your justifications and all your challenges and all your victories and your path, like, you can combine it all and bring it forward towards something that you create that supports the life that you want to live, that supports the experiences that you want to experience. And, Elena, you are someone for me that embody, you know, your teachings. Like, it's. It feels for me that there is no separation. Like, it's just a whole. Like, you know, your work, who you are and your habits and your practice, just you, and then you share that with people. So for me, this is a very beautiful and powerful embodiment of what a sacred business is. So thank you again for being here.

Thank you so much for having me. Truly, both of you.

Yeah. And, yeah, just for those of you who are not familiar with Elena, I will kick us off with kind of the official bio, and I'm going to read this a little bit just so I don't mess it up too bad. But Elena Brower is a mother, mentor, poet, artist, volunteer, and bestselling author, and then host of the Practice you podcast. And I know she has numerous bestselling journals, courses, workshops, and books. And, yeah, I was just actually checking out, you know, the notes on your upcoming book just before this call. So she has a book coming out late this year called Nothing. So I'M excited to learn more about that as well. So thank you again for joining us.

Thank you for having me. It's really such a pleasure to sit back. It's been kind of a busy moment, and it's nice to sit back with you, Phil and Carolina, and just kind of consider, like, what would even inspire you to bring me on here and how have I lived my truth. And it's a really nice kind of inquiry. Thank you.

Yeah, we would love to hear about. Like, we were chatting about this earlier today, and I feel that we all have unique paths. Right. And often, like, we don't really plan the journey. It happens and it unfolds, and then we. We learn how to follow. So in this process of, like, creating your business and, you know, serving people from this place of, like, authenticity, like, how was that for you? Like, how that came together, like, a little bit of your story and how you're helping people right now.

Gosh, it's taken so many turns. As you said, it has its own. It had its own life. I started with the yoga studio, and even that I didn't think of. It was a friend who said to me, a partner at the time, he said, hey, you are having 100 people lining up outside of this building in New York, and you're getting paid $100, and you could be making a lot more money if you owned the space and you were the purveyor of the. Of the experience. And so that led to 2002, opening up my yoga studio, which was open for 12 years. And that was wonderful. I learned so much about what I could do. I made a lot of mistakes. I was not the best boss. I could have been so much more attentive and present, and I just was so much in my own life and teaching and learning and study and then having a baby, and, you know, there were so many other things. So that was a wonderful learning. Midway through that time, I was presented with the opportunity to become a wellness advocate for Doterra. I've been using oils already for a decade. I love Doterra's oils. And I thought, okay, maybe. And I took it on, but very loosely, for a number of years. When I decided to take it on in earnest, I really did it. And I was just brazen and brave and reached out to everybody I knew and started teaching about the benefits of having these plant essences in everything that we do. To this day. I just put on a whole some vase moisturizer that I made with geranium and blue tansy and frankincense. Like, it's my. My life. It's in my life. That business grew quite a bit over the course of the last decade. I'm really proud. I've got a few business partners in that business, and they are my family, my dearest friends, and we continue to work together. And even though the business has changed shape and it's a little bit smaller and it's a little more modest, I still love the oils. I still use them, I still share them, I still teach them. But that business gave me the opportunity to write, to travel, to paint, to volunteer, to start practicing Buddhism. It gave me the freedom to attend a chaplaincy program. I never would have done that. You just never know if you're watching or listening. You never know. Like something could actually earn you enough resources to allow you to do the things that you want to do by way of giving and being of benefit in your community. And that is what happened to me. It was very simple. It wasn't, you know, it wasn't that different from anyone else who's made an effort, and it. It bore fruit. And now I can spend many hours of each week volunteering, and I have three different placements that I'm doing. Working on a fourth. I'm very fulfilled. I also still teach yoga for Glow. I started with them at the very beginning, and so that's part of my work too. And I consider that part of my business. And I would say the other sort of branch to this tree is the teaching of Phil mentioned the courses and book writing and so forth. These are all things that really light me up that the business that I built allowed me to explore. So. Circuitous route. But that is. That was the route.

Yeah. No, it's. It's just beautiful that, like, there's nothing planned. Right? Like. And you just, like, I go here and then I do my best on this, and then I go there and then that shift, and then it creates a different shift shape. And then, like. And I. And I love essential oils, and I love the terra as well. And they. It's all combined, right? Like one feed another, and then all of a sudden, like, you create something else. But you're bringing the yoga and the oils as well. It's, you know, it's because it's who you are. Right.

It's just what I do every day. I have them everywhere. I have, you know, all the things that I'm doing are really what I'm doing. There's no forcing in my work. And I think that's an important point. And something I thought about this morning as I was considering our chat, that nothing should be forced. You know, even I have a pretty robust, not super insane, but robust affiliate business as well. And it's just me sharing what I use already. It's not complicated.

Yeah, it's you. Like, that's. That's the thing. Like, because it's natural, right? Because it's natural to you. It comes out natural and then attracts people that will benefit from it. So you're kind of working the magnetism, then. The, you know, there's no power of anything. It's just your natural magnetism.

It's. It's the magnetism of whatever works for you is going to magnetize the people whom you're meant to be serving. That's what it is. It's not that any one person is so magnetic. I'm actually feeling like I just want to disappear from the world and become very obsolete. You know, it's. It feels really good to get older and to dial everything back. I think the magnetism, as I said, is really about whatever means something to you that means something to someone whom you're going to serve.

I would love to kind of. This wasn't on the list, but like, just kind of touching on what you've just shared. Like from the outside, from an external perspective, it just. On one hand, it looks so natural how you've woven all these aspects together of your various businesses into something that feels well threaded, but also it feels like it's a lot. And you know, you hear this kind of competing advice of like, oh, do the one thing, you know, and then there's people that are like, oh, make space and just kind of allow for all of your passions to come together. And I'm curious about the element of balance. Like, how do you. How do you find balance with your different efforts and maybe just how you relate to that experience of, of how you. Yeah, all of these different aspects of your work, if that makes sense.

It totally makes sense. I think we're all very different people, and I think some people would really thrive just choosing one sort of path and one general direction. And some people are really quite, you know, poly capable, I guess you would say. I. I love doing many different things. And one day I love standing in my easel and making a painting. And one day I love sitting in my presentation space, which is right over here. And I love presenting courses. That makes me happy. And then I write at my standing desk, and then I shoot for glow in the mornings. You know, I'm all set up. I I happen to thrive on varying activities. I don't know. That's. But that's not true for everyone. And I. I just want to say, with really real respect for what's true for you, if you're watching, if you have the kind of mind that really thrives on focus, like, focus, do the one thing. If you have a mind like mine, like, I'm just. I just enjoy doing a bunch of different things, and I've organized my life so that there is no extra around. I. I just do the thing that I want to do on that day. Um, it is pretty organized. And, you know, we could get into sort of granular calendaring practices where, you know, if I have a day where there's not something for myself, I reconfigure it. If I. If I open it up and there's like, a bunch of. Today, for example, I'm looking. There are three different blue events. Blue means I am appearing on camera. If I don't have a pink event to counter that, which is my workout, which happened already, maybe even a recording of a yoga practice, a really long walk with James. If I don't have that, I instantly know, okay, I can see there's no pink on the calendar. I'm going to put it in today. I have two.

It's such a good idea to put, like, I have the colors, but I don't. It's. It's more general, and I just love, like, if you can see your day and. Yeah, it's missing this color. It's so light, the way you add. You know, you're adding something to your calendar. But the way you described was so just. Yeah, like, it's too much blue. So I need pink, and then maybe you have other colors, and I need, like, yellow. And then it's. You are adding stuff on your calendar, but it's just like. Yeah, because I'm balancing the colors and I want to. Colorful days. Right.

I'm a visual person. The mentoring clients and classes are in purple. The volunteering work is all in graphite or gray. My son has his color. Has his own color. He's now at college, but when he comes home for. He just came home last night, and he'll be home. Activities that involve him are blue, you know, light blue. It's nice to do that, and it does give your mind a place to rest. You know, our minds are so busy. If we're not. Not very strict and vigilant about what we take in, our minds are not resting at all during the day until we say oh, yeah. I need some, like, show to watch or something, and I don't even really do that anymore. I'll watch a movie every now and again with James. He's very picky about his films. But even that. That's not Arrest. Arrest is, like, super quiet. Arrest is walking in the trees. Arrest is laying down on the couch and doing absolutely nothing.

You know, and it can be challenging, right, because we're so wired to do stuff and to be feeding our mind that like. Like, you almost don't see the value, right? If I'm just sitting down here doing nothing, I'm wasting. It's a train, I guess, like, to. To be able to do nothing and really, really rest your mind and your body. Because if you're watching a movie, your mind is not resting, right? Like, you're still connected.

No. In 10 years from now, how old are you, Carolina?

I'm 40.

So in 10 to 15 years from now, you'll start to see that actually the pockets of silence are where your best ideas and creativity come from. And you start to realize, oh, if I don't prioritize those, I have nothing to give at all. And it's hard. It's hard to do. It's really hard to do. But it's an important practice, something to undertake to take yourself on and to treat yourself to that kind of time. As you get older, comes more and more easy and natural. I will tell you that.

Yeah. Connected to this. The first contact that I had with your work was your deck. Pretty U. And I remember that I was going to the store, and I'm like, I just want to get a deck. And I didn't have any of that. And that was, like, a couple of years ago. And I closed my eyes and there was, like, this shelf with, like, a bunch of different decks. And I just, like, had my hand going and. And then I stopped on yours, and I'm. I got it, and I'm like. And I didn't know anything about you, anything about your work, but what I had in my mind about a deck was those with, like. Like a huge text, you know, like, feeding my mind even more. And then when I opened that, it was such a delightful surprise for me because practices opposite. And I thought I was like, yeah, I'm gonna get this because, you know, I want to feed my mind with, like, inspiration. And you helped me to drop to my body, like, in such a beautiful way. And I'm like, get a card and just, like, place the right hand on your belly, the left hand on your Heart and just take a deep breath. And I'm like, yeah. And do I need to do something? You know, like, the mind going. And I'm like, no, this is, like, enough.

I made that for my. For myself at that. I was. This was probably eight to ten years ago, and I made it for myself. And at that time, I needed embodiment, like, in my body. Practices that weren't yoga, that weren't workouts, just moments. And that's where that came from. It's wonderful that it connected with you.

Yeah.

So cool.

Yeah.

No, thank you so much.

Yeah, you're welcome. You're welcome.

Cool. Elena, one another thing we're curious about, and this is one that we ask most people that. Come on. You mentioned kind of your early experience doing the yoga studio, and then I think you used the word brazen as you were, like, moving into doing the doterra and essential oils. And one of the things that we talk about a lot is how as you're trying to do anything that you experience is meaningful in your life or with your work, it's very normal for these feelings of fear or resistance to come up, you know, in your mind or in your body. And. Yeah. I'm just curious. Yeah. How. You know, two things. Maybe thinking back to that time when you were just getting started, if you can remember how you related and kind of kept yourself moving forward. And then maybe even as interesting, like now, where you're in a different phase of your experience, are there any areas where you still are challenged by this and any advice you could have for others who might find themselves in similar experiences?

Yeah. Thank you. Such a broad question.

Take that. Where you take that in either direction, that feels most appropriate for you.

Yeah. Thank you. I think the first thing I would address is this, the word that I use, brazen. To share what I was growing and passion about. And what I saw is a really incredible opportunity to earn. Well, to support what I really wanted to be doing, which was volunteer work that came to pass because I was very brave and because I stopped worrying about what other people would think of my effort to sell a product.

I love that you're sharing that.

Oh, I just had to get over it so badly. It was so hard. You know, yoga teacher, you're not supposed to do that. And to sell a product. To sell a product that you actually use, that you derive, from which you derive benefit, is not something to be ashamed about. I mean, I. I can name in every system of my body the benefits that I have gained from using essential oils, the benefits that I've gained from practicing yoga, the benefits that I have gained from the concepts that I write and teach about in my courses. Why should I not sell those things? Why should I not earn money enough so that I can go out and volunteer and give my time in the hospice and give my time to the gentlemen in the penitentiary who need yoga desperately and meditation and give my time to these families I serve who are grieving the loss of family members where all of us are just voluntarily holding space for these people and creating circles and time for them. Why should I not sell the products that earn me the money to do those things? And that's really where I have, you know, the. The inquiry for our viewer, our listener. Pay attention to that question. Pay attention to the sort of shame that we put on ourselves for selling something and think instead about when you sell those things, what are you going to do with the earnings that you create for yourself? Put them to good work, put them to good use. Support your children, support your family, volunteer your time, Offer monetary support for the causes in which you believe. I have causes that I've been supporting for well over a decade because of the earnings that I was able to generate from selling products in which I believe. So kind of, I'm kind of, you know, less. Less obsessed with, you know, go out there and be brave and do this thing. Like, no, really consider what the actual end game is. If you are earning money. How are you putting it to the benefit of all?

Yeah, this is such a beautiful inquiry because. And we see this a lot with people in our community where they share these beautiful visions of how they wish to support people and give back and create community. But then when we bring it down to kind of, what are the actions to create sustainability so that they can give of themselves. Yeah, they get at this. They get. Get to the sticking point right where it feels. They feel some degree of incompatibility there. And so, yeah, I feel like what you're sharing here is a really powerful expression of what's possible to kind of reframe that.

Thank you. It's a strong societal problem.

It is.

We shame people for doing great work. We shame people for shining. We shame people for earning enough to support their lives and then to also give. Why is that shameful? I will never understand this, but I will spend the rest of my life kind of gently offering ways, new ways to think about it, different ways to think about it. Inquiries. Stay curious about this. And by the way, if you're watching and somebody in your sphere is shaming you, for selling your course, your product, your practice, whatever it is, literally, forgive and delete. That's not your person and it's not your business. Keep going and do the thing that you want to do and free up your time and free up your money and. And do it. Place it where you want it to be and be of benefit. Do not delay, do not wait.

Thank you so much for saying that. And I love that you are saying this, especially because you have a yoga background, because I feel that in the yoga world, this gets 10 times worse. In the spiritual world, like, if you're selling, you know, like, people, they're like, more shameful to, like, charge for their classes or, you know, sometimes they charge, but it's always like the minimum amount and it's not sustainable for them. So then they don't have enough money to create, like, a life that, you know, support their health, you know, their finances, like, whatever it is, like their family. And they still want to give because it's natural. Right? Like we, we were born to give, but we need to create in this world, in this dimension, like, we need to create this foundation that we receive money in a way so we can have that, so we can actually give from true generosity, like overflowing. Not because we are broken. And now I want to give too, because I feel that this world is all broken. So thank you so much. And, and yes, if you're listening to this, like, yeah, just cancel and delete and move forward and share.

Forgive. It's important. The words are important. Forgive and delete. Nobody needs to be cancelled.

Particularly, I mean, like, the thought. Yeah, no, I mean, like the, you know, like the, the, like I. Sometimes I just. Yeah, like, I just tell myself, like, to just cancel this thought because it's not helpful for me. But yes, like, and then forgiving myself and forgiving others.

That's fair. And also with regard to yoga people who might be watching this, this is important for you. You've been studying for well over at least five years. Some of us have been studying for 30 years. We have logged thousands of hours of trainings, many tens of thousands of dollars in trainings and books and hours of practice. Please, let's raise the bar. We should be charging exactly what it is that our hour is worth. Not less. Not worrying. Can they pay for it? No. If you need to charge $300 an hour or more. What if you said, let's get four people together. If you have somebody interested in your class, somebody interested in working with you privately, great, let's get four people Together so that I can earn what I'm worth and you can have the experience that you want, and I can bring my quality and caliber of study and studentship and teaching to you, and you can benefit. That's a fair exchange. I'm seeing way too many yoga teachers, and this is 30 years in, still afraid to charge what their hour is worth. And it would make me so happy to redefine this, you know, if you. If you need to, if you have four people that are interested in working with you, each person should pay $50 for the benefit of being in a class of four people and have your full attention. That makes perfect sense to me. And we begin to raise the bar, and we begin to change the way we look at money. We begin to change the way we see money as energy. It's not this evil force, especially if you're earning, doing exactly what it is that you love to do, that you are trained to do well, trained for decades, and that will be beneficial to those you're serving. Yeah.

And I'm curious, Elena, I don't want to misspeak, but it sounded like maybe you were challenged by this earlier on in your career, profession. What did you see as the. What was the moment or the turning point? Was it a mentor? Was it something that you read? How did you kind of arrive at this position? If you can remember or just.

I do remember. And it was over a series of years, and it wasn't one particular person. It was. It was a series of humans books. Empowerments. I'll say that I received both literal and figurative empowerments from teachers and from experiences where suddenly I started to realize that actually, even if we look at this very shallow example, let's say you're in a store and you have two sweaters. One's a little softer than the other, and the one that's a little softer than the other is $199. And the one that's a little less soft is like $89. Which one do you want? You want the one that's softer, that's a little more expensive? It's a terrible example, but it's an example. I am aiming to offer the people whom I serve a high caliber, high quality experience of the work that I'm doing, whether it's my art or a course or whatever product. Even my customers with Doterra, still to this day, after well over a decade later, I give them really good customer service. That's my. That's my practice. And in a. In a business like this particular one, but in everything that I do, the more I can offer my own experience, what I do, the easier it is for my customer or client or mentee or student to connect with the heart of the work that they're receiving. So I've morphed into this sort of more high touch way of working. And so over those years of figuring that out, I figured out that, you know, I could charge more for what it is that I'm doing. Whatever it is, if it's a course, it's a, you know, product, whatever I'm sharing. I'm considering starting an interior line with a friend of mine. Like, wow, that, that's so interesting to me. Whatever it is, I can charge more because I am putting my whole heart into it. I'm not just cutting corners and you know, skirting. I'm really doing the research. I'm really thinking about how this is going to be a benefit. I'm really considering, like, hey, you know, you only need to buy one bottle of oil every six months. Don't buy more than you need, but know how to use it and make the best of what you have. And so those things, the sort of quality, caliber, contact I think is really important. Those things have allowed me to feel very comfortable chargin what I'm worth for my time and for my work. And I, and I don't, I don't question it anymore. And also, as I said earlier to Carolina, like, getting older helps because you realize you have experience, you have age behind you, you have wisdom, and it becomes less and less scary to charge for your worth as you get older. May that be true for you too?

Yeah, and the last follow up I have on this is it seems, and I feel that you're someone that cares very deeply for, for humans and for people. And it's very evident in how you talk about your volunteerism and all of this. So there's also this question or this conversation that comes up often about accessibility. And so like in this, in this space of like creating these high quality kind of premium offerings and charging your worth, how do you relate with this idea of making that work accessible? Or do you just kind of draw the line and say, well, this is how I create the most sustainable situation for me in business and where I give is in the volunteerism or is there, you know, I'm just curious how you relate to that or how you would speak to someone who has that really strong desire, you know, and states like, hey, I really want to create accessibility to my teachings or offerings.

It's a beautiful question I have two answers for you. Number one, substack. That is why I created my sub stack. I wanted to have some weekly regular contact with as many folks as I could from the depths of my being through my writing. That was important to me and that's why I created it. And I think also accessibility has to do with offering a lot for free. So over the course of many years and even through my website, if you put your email in, you're going to get a pretty robust guidebook on what it means to create personal rituals for yourself. So if you're watching and you're thinking, you know, I want to charge, but I also want to be have this accessible work, as Phil has mentioned, think about one or two things or maybe four or five things. Over the course of these 30 years working, I've given away so many things, hours of time. I have a group of mentees that I see completely for free. There are people that come to me and say, I would love to work with you, I would love for you to be my mentor, but I don't have any money. And I say, wonderful. I'm going to have you fill out this application and I'm going to feel into it, and if it's a fit, I'm going to see you for free until you have the money. And I do that a lot. And some people would say, oh, that's really stupid. You shouldn't give your time away. And I think I charge enough for the time that I'm charging for that. I have the space and capacity to work with people who need the work, who don't have the money currently. And I figure my way into it. And you can do that. You know, you can. As we said before, you can sell whatever it is that you're selling in order to earn, in order to give. And that's something that really does mean a lot to me. And aside from the volunteer hours, which are many, I do like to give free things through my work, through courses, through free hours, seminars, whatever I can do. And I think that model that started, I don't know, maybe 10 or 15 years ago where free webinar, and then you charge for the course. It's still great. It still works because people can still get in touch with the work that I'm doing. I have a course right now going on with Alberto Vildo, who's a really good friend of mine. We came together and decided we are doing a course on the Yoga Sutra, according to his translation, which is shamanically centered. And I was always like, oh, Shamanism. Shamanism, whatever. And we sat down and started talking about it when I found this book in his house. And I suddenly realized, of course we're speaking the same language. Let's do something. And so we are giving people 15 days of the course for free. Around, like, day nine or something. 15 days for free. And then after that, if they wish to take the course, it's not a thousand dollars, it's $198. It's not crazy. And so I think there is a movement filled to your point for more accessibility, higher quality, and I think that's a good direction in which we're going right now.

And what I heard in all of this throughout this conversation is like your. And what I believe is that, like, your ability to kind of fill your cup and make yourself sustainable is what has afforded you the gift of being able to give this service, to have the free offering for those. I think you said 13 or 15 individuals to do the volunteer work. And I feel that that's so important because oftentimes people skip that step and they just try to go right to the giving. And then. And I'm not saying that there shouldn't be an appropriate amount at every step of the way, but if you don't take care of yourself in there, then you burn out. You just don't make it. And this is why, you know, this is why you're still here and you've been doing this work for many years, is because you've. You've created a situation where you can continue to show up and be of service because you've taken care of yourself. And I feel that's really powerful. So, yeah, thank you again. This is really beautiful. I know that our audience will really appreciate all of these thoughts that you've shared with us.

Yeah.

I want to be mindful of our time. I know you said we had about 30 to 40 minutes, so I just wanted to take a couple moments here at the end. Actually, do you have time for one question? Because there was one question in the chat.

What's fun is that I just got a text that my next meeting has been pushed by 15 minutes. So it's not starting at a quarter of. It's starting at the top of the hour. So this is perfect. We can keep going.

Okay, cool. Thank you for that. Well, yeah, let's see. There was a question. And by the way, if you have any other questions real quick, you could put them in here. Maybe we'll have time. We can't guarantee, but Natalie had a question kind of going Back to earlier in the conversation about how you decided on what you wanted to reduce and how did you know what to let go of so that other things could thrive.

I really the sitting practice. There is no rule. I can't tell you what I how or why. Each of us has our own set of circumstances. There are different people in our households. There are different priorities, different ways of optimizing our time. The sitting practice in the morning is what helps me listen for what needs to be prioritized and what can be released. So that question I cannot answer for anyone. But I can suggest time and silence so that you can really listen, so that you can know what is the next best step or choice.

Beautifully said. Yeah. So with that, you know what I would love to just do is like substack makes this so easy. We're here on substack. You're on substack and you shared that this is one of your offerings for making your work more accessible. But if someone is learning of your work for the first time, maybe they've heard something that spoke to them in this conversation. What would be the best way for them to kind of explore your world and maybe get a more of a understanding of what you have to offer?

I think two things. One would just be my website elenabrower.com and the other would be the substack. And I say this before I say this in almost every post. If you are interested in being a paid subscriber and you do not currently have the means to pay $50 for a year, please message me through substack and I will gladly gift you paid subscription for the year. No problem, no questions asked. If you ask, I will say yes. So please do that. Nothing should stop you from being in touch with my work and know that those who are paying are actually supporting the various causes to which I give every single month. So incarcerated women, children who are grieving, we're putting in a new rug in the facility. And also a group in South Africa called Free Food Kitchen. They feed hundreds of children and also domesticated house animals every single week. And then I have two other causes that I love, but I'll mention one is women for women. And for as long as I can remember, probably since I was late 20s, I've been supporting a woman for a number of months at a time as she goes through this very important vocational training so that she can become whatever she wishes to become, whether it has to do with textiles or farming or creating a product and selling it. Supporting a woman through her training with about not much like $30 a month. So fulfilling. And we're always in touch like pen pals. These are all things that paid subscriptions on Substack support. And lastly, one more important. I have a 1718 year old girl who I've been supporting since she was seven through Girls on Fire Leaders. She is now in school, she is working, she is finally tending to her health which was not good for a long time. And paid subscriptions also support her and the organization from which I found her. So it's just a joy. And writing, of course, the writing practices, as you guys know, it's so important to stay engaged in it. When we do, we find ourselves living more fully. I find myself being more attentive and alert to the small details and so that the, the, the practice of being on substack, writing for substack, inviting people to come in. I have found this to be so fulfilling, so much more fulfilling than any other form of social media that I've seen to date.

Yeah, totally agree. We came on back in maybe October and I'd been one of those people that was a little bit hesitant and skeptical. I don't know, I just had this idea in my head of what it was and thankfully a friend of mine convinced me and it's just been the most beautiful experience. So much so that we pretty much don't hang out anywhere else other than Substack at this point. We've kind of given away most of the other social media presence.

So yeah, I'm steadily losing Instagram followers. I'm just fine with that. This feels so much more robust, vibrant, intelligent, real. I love it so much.

Yeah, I agree on the writing. Would you like to say a word about your upcoming book? We were looking at it and Carolina's really into watercolors right now and I saw the color and I saw that you, you have your. It's going to have your artwork in it and yes, yes, if you'd like to share a moment about that, that would be wonderful.

Yes, I'm really nervous about this one. I've gotten some of the best blurbs, if not the best blurbs on this book of my whole life. Everyone from Liz Gilbert to Tracy Stanley to Alex Ell have blurbed it. Laura McCowan and my heart starts beating when I think about it. It's called Hold Nothing and it's a series of autobiographical ish essays interspersed with pauses that take the form of watercolor pieces of art. The proofs that you have are not the final art. There's some pieces that are Final. But it just got really reworked in a really cool way so that the pauses are kind of in a flow over the course of the chapters, and they make sense. I've been reading the book out loud to James, my partner, who is not a big fan of reading, and he has very heavy dyslexia, so it's hard for him to read. And I have to say, reading the book, it sort of threads through my experience where we started roughly 30 years ago to now, to finding Zen, to finding comfort and just being by myself and not running after achievements, but instead just allowing my life to be lived as we were talking about Carolina, without needing to do things every second of the day. And it's a. It's a. I think it's going to be a source of inspiration to slow down and pay attention to the fabric of your life and how it's weaving together with the people around you to really choose how you're living and with whom and why, to really consider. There are prompts at the end of each chapter in each section that are actually in reading them last night to James, better than I thought. And I've been through this book so many times. They're really good. And I think they're going to provide particularly for those of you who write, if you write, if you teach, if you are overseeing other people in your work, even kids, the prompts will help you to find meaning in all the littlest moments. And that's, I think, what I'm most nervous about and most excited about is I think this is a lifetime of material in this book. And I don't know how I'm going to top it. But at some point I will write another book that's more Zen focused. This one is really just the journey into. Into Zen. And it's solid. I'm really proud of it.

And it comes out later this year, right towards the end of summer.

It comes out in November. But actually you can order it. I'll send you the Penguin Random House ring link so that you can sort of find the bookstore that you prefer and you can order it now. And apparently I just learned that pre orders make a big difference. So if you do want to order it, even though it's so far in advance, order it now. Definitely save your order number because I'm going to make a few things available to folks who pre order. For example, like a special workshop and actually a couple of workshops, a really beautiful PDF that I'm writing right now to go along with the book, a few sessions with me. So I'M pretty excited about it.

Awesome. It sounds like a wonderful opportunity. And I always do that, by the way, whenever something gets my attention or awareness like this, just because I don't trust myself to remember to come back and find it months later. And I know that I want to get my hands on it. So that's a really good opportunity.

Thank you.

Well, thank you, Carolina. Anything else you'd like to close with before we let Elena get back to her day?

Well, no, I just want to say thank you. Like, I really appreciate your presence. I really appreciate your wisdom and, and I feel that every time that we have a conversation like this, we give permission to people to do exactly what you are doing and, you know, and from this overflowing, find ways to give more and more. So thank you so very much for your presence and for your time. I really appreciate it.

Thank you both. You're very thoughtful, very wise humans. And I can see that over the next decade or so, this is just going to get more and more meaningful for you. I think what you're doing is providing a way, for those of us who wouldn't normally talk about all the different facets of our business and our work, you're providing us a way to talk about it in a way that actually helped me get clear on a few things today. And I'm really thankful to you guys for that. Wonderful to meet you.

Thank you so much for sharing that.

Thank you so very much.

Yeah, we really appreciate this and we do. And then also for anyone listening, we will, especially if you joined late, we do kind of recreate a recap summary. All of the resources that Elena shared, we will post there. We'll share it with you, Elena, if you feel, you know, that it would be useful. And yeah, thank you again. So have a beautiful rest of your day. And thank you for everyone who was able to join us live and for being here with us.

Thank you.

And will you also leave? Make sure that you let me know if you post it, like to notes or any anywhere else or even to Instagram, because then I'll repost. I'll make sure to share it as well.

Yeah, I will absolutely let you know. So thank you so much.

Thank you so much.

Bye. Thank you. Bye, everyone.

Bye, Alina. Bye, everyone.