The nurse practitioner who calls herself a witch | Jane Riccobono | In Full Light 007

We are here. We were just sharing a funny story about our live last week, but welcome to In Full Light. This is our new Substack series where we're really just celebrating heart-led practitioners inside our community who are stepping into their power and sharing their gifts with the world. And today we are joined by Jane Riccobono. She is a women's health nurse practitioner and the founder of Wise Body Women's Health in the state of New York. So yes, welcome, Jane. Happy to have you here with us.

Thank you.

Thanks for having me.

Yes, thank you for being with us. And I just wanna welcome people joining us right now. And if you have any questions, please post it in the chat and we're gonna do our best to have your question answered.

So Jane, I think like where we'd like to start these are just kind of like if you could share a little bit about who you are, what you do, kind of the typical stuff. But I think what we're most interested in or more importantly, what we're interested in hearing about is kind of what is the deeper calling behind this work that you've chosen to step into with what you're building?

Yeah, so as you mentioned, I'm a women's health nurse practitioner and also a former midwife. And so the work that I do is I have a private practice in New York City and I also treat patients via telehealth all over New York State. And I, yeah, and you were saying, what was the other part of the question?

Just, I would, we're curious like what your deeper calling is behind this work. And we've heard a little bit of your story, but just for those that will be hearing this for the first time, you know, you've shared a lot about, yeah, your intentions and why you've chosen to step into this work. And I'd love to hear more about that.

Yeah. I guess, so it's like, I, hmm, I, you know, I went into, I first went into healthcare as a midwife, like the love of birth and midwifery practice was what took me into healthcare. And now I actually don't practice that anymore. I practice gynecology and women's healthcare more broadly. And, but that midwife, approach is the thing that has stayed with me and it called me to healthcare and it is still something that I value really deeply that I practice in my practice with patients a lot, which is, you know, like a more, you know, midwives essentially, they approach birth as a process that's a physiologic process that really mostly—

Yeah.

Can happen on its own. And the role of the midwife is to support the process and of course to look out for anything that could be dangerous or need intervention, but to be really careful about that intervention and to trust the body first and then intervene second, essentially, you know? And so that more broadly can be applied to, you know, pretty much all areas of healthcare. And that's something which— Mm-hmm. In a lot of traditional practices like Ayurveda, traditional Chinese medicine, that's all embedded in the approach, but we don't really have that approach as much. It's not a part of the medical system, you know, the mainstream medical system. Mm-hmm. And so that's a big part of my calling to this work is to figure out how to bring more of that into the Western medical model. And so yeah, bringing in that more midwifery approach, bringing in a practical mysticism approach as well, helping people to tune into their own intuition to help people navigate the experiences they've already had with their own health, with the healthcare system. Mm-hmm. To kind of, you know, we have so much information these days that getting information isn't the issue, it's what to do with the information.

Mm-hmm.

And I think that's a skill that we all need to hone more than ever because that's kind of how we can navigate a world that seems to be like speeding up faster and faster with AI and everything. And so, so that I bring that into my care with patients too. Like, okay, let's like, rather than, you know, 15 minutes super rushed, like here's a prescription, send them on their way, see you in 2 months, you know, like let's like, let's like drop in for a minute, you know, let's like, let me hear your whole story because part of the medicine is telling the story and being heard. And then also much of where we go from there is is hearing the clues in the story of like, oh, here's a connection that has never been made, so we should probably run these tests. Or, you know, there's a, all, you know, all the clues that you need are often right there in the story. But in a lot of the mainstream medical system, we just don't have the time, the resources to really listen to all of that and synthesize it. Yeah.

That's really powerful. And I truly appreciate your perspective on time, like how much is, is important to actually, like, you know, it doesn't mean that because my symptom is the same as this other person, that the solution is the same because, but in a 15-minute or 20-minute session, like we might not have the time to uncover all the things, but if we have like more time to talk about it, like maybe the same thing that expresses with, for me, for example, like in a certain way, it's because of a habit or some, you know, like, and I truly appreciate that because I think we are so unique and just having like doctors regaining that and like, oh yes, like it's not a one solution fits all. So I truly appreciate that. And in that, like, I imagine that it's not only the healing of that symptom, right? It's there is a transformation too. So if you could speak a little bit about the transformation you create for people who work with you, we would love to hear.

Yeah. I mean, I think part of the transformation is, it depends on the condition or the symptoms, of course. You know, sometimes it's newfound hope that that healing is possible, like particularly with chronic conditions, if they've been to lots of different people, tried lots of different things, finding a new avenue of like a way forward, that's a big part of the transformation. And then also being, having the, like the— the feeling of a teamwork, you know, or of like someone is really with you in your experience, that alone can be tremendously healing, even if sometimes there isn't another way forward that's clear. You know, kind of like really being acknowledged and affirmed by somebody who understands the medical system and can, you know, kind of explain. Sometimes a lot of it is like, Mm-hmm. Explaining and understanding why certain things happened that, you know, happened, or why certain doctors took certain approaches and what's normal, what's not normal. Like a lot of it is that kind of like almost like a deeper level transformation of almost like healing, healing, healing wounds, just relating to their experience with like, healthcare system, like alone, just like take that aside from even their physical symptoms. That can be a big part of it. And then also, yeah. And then also empowerment, you know, to when you're tapping into your inner knowing and you're using your inner resources to solve an issue, a health issue that you're having, and you're feeling clear about what you're gonna do and why, and you're solving a problem, that's super powerful too. And that's something that I think my patients take with them, you know, 'cause there can be sometimes like a hierarchy or power dynamic in a medical situation. And so a big part of how I work is like, you know, with a lot of respect and— Respect. Care for that other person in a lot of ways that it's pretty difficult to do sometimes in the typical model. So yeah, part of the transformation is also reconnecting with your inner resources in terms of your own health.

That's beautiful, thank you. And when was the point for you that you decided that you needed to do this work?

Hmm. Um, when is this? I never, like, I never have a point like that. I don't know. It's always like if people ask me like, what's your favorite ex? I'm just like, I don't know. Like, I'll tell you 10 of my favorites.

Well, a combination. It could be like maybe it wasn't one, like there was one moment that maybe you decided like, oh, now I'm going to dedicate some time and I'm going to do it. But maybe it was like a combination of events and things that you were experiencing that you're like, hey, I want to bring this approach. Uh, so if it's more than one, that's totally fine if you could share. Yeah.

Yeah. Um, I guess, um, you know, just, uh, the way that I felt when, when I was working in the mainstream medical system, I just felt very frustrated that I couldn't work with people in the way that I wanted, or that it felt always, you know, in spite of the system that I was working in the way that I wanted, not feeling supported by it, and always kind of feeling like this trade-off between like my own wellbeing and my patients' wellbeing.

Mm-hmm.

And which I think a lot of people feel is like in the medical system, a lot of times, you know, that's why practitioners burn out because they have to kind of choose between the patients and themselves. And it's really hard if you're a good person that wants to help, it's really hard not to choose the patients and then eventually we burn out. So, Yeah, so I think it was like a combination of just not being fully able to bring my full self in a different, you know, in the usual way of practicing. And then also reconnecting to what brought me to healthcare in the first place, which was this midwife model and that I really love and that is so wise and intelligent. And so wanting to come back to that. Model, but in a more broad women's health way that's beyond just birth.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And it's really interesting. And I, you know, I may have shared this with you, my own history with chronic illness for over a decade. I definitely experienced both sides of that. Like I had the experience of the 15-minute appointment and I've had the experience of having someone truly listen. Like I really loved that line you used that part of the medicine is in telling the story. I think that's what you said. And when you do experience that, it really does truly feel like a breath of fresh air. And also just like to feel that you're connected to like your own intuition. I often would feel that like there was something and I always understood like, okay, I'm here. And you were talking about that, that kind of hierarchy. I'm like here because this person has information or can help me in a way that perhaps I don't, I can't perceive.

Yeah.

But I always felt like, but I have information to contribute to that as well. And then to feel so dismissed or just be like, oh, I've seen this a million times. And like, you know, it's just, it's kind of a hard, it's a hard experience, but I also never really stopped to think about, you know, there's probably a large percentage of practitioners because so many practitioners probably, I had to guess, get into medicine for the right reasons and just the conditions on both sides just to kind of set up this, really kind of tragic, tragic engagement, right? So, so I really love that. Yeah, I just love when I, when I speak with people like yourself that are willing to kind of brave their way forward, kind of knowing that it's, it's kind of an uphill battle, right? It's not like it's so much of the conditions are going, you're going against the grain and then your willingness and courageousness to do that. I just really admire. So. I thank you for that. And hopefully, you know, I'm sure many other people listening will feel the same way. But kind of shifting gears, I wanted to ask you, and maybe it's connected to what I was just saying, but it could be anything really. As you kind of going on this journey of, you know, being in healthcare and then deciding to start this practice, are there any areas or things that you've kind of believed about yourself or maybe about business in the past that you've had to you've kind of let go of or changed your relationship with along the way as you've moved this thing forward? Be curious about that.

Hmm. Let's see, things about business that I've had to let go, beliefs about business.

Yeah. Or yourself, beliefs about yourself and your work and, or how you— Yeah. Or business in the whole, or the medical healthcare system, really anything that's kind of, you've had to confront in order to get to where you found yourself today.

Yeah. Well, I think a big, so this, you know, this idea of bringing in intuition and practical mysticism, You know, that has been a big journey for me because, uh, you know, there is this fear of not being taken seriously if you kind of talk about more spiritual things. And, you know, I, I, you know, it's like, to me, it's so much a part of reality that it's like wrong to like not acknowledge it or like it doesn't even work for me, you know, but Also, I have this sense of like, you know, to be taken seriously as a medical professional, like you don't talk about, you know, intuition or energy or mantra or, you know, and so that has been a big thing, you know, to kind of invite that into my practice and how I work. And I think, you know, it's like, I think about, Just like when I used to be in birth, there were often like certain nurses, labor and delivery nurses who I can remember who would sort of like, they were also like Reiki practitioners or, you know, they would be like doing little blessings and like sort of just like these like secret like lightworkers, you know, like on the birth floor, the labor and delivery floor. Like, I think about that a lot in terms of, and of course, like there's so many people in the world who are spiritual and who also work in the medical field or business. And so it's, that's sort of, I guess that would be like an edge for me still is bringing that in and sharing that and owning that and having my practice be a space that my patients can bring that in also. And then while also still, of course, you know, doing the regular medical stuff and, you know, using science and all of the amazing things that we have at our disposal in the modern times. Like, so that's just a really interesting intersection that I'm always thinking about and working with.

That's beautiful. Beautiful. And I think, I don't know if you would agree, like you were talking about this in your context, but I think this is way bigger. Um, like I see that we as society, like we struggle to bring science and spirituality together, right? Like either it's something that's like, if we don't have science explaining, then it's like, uh, it's the spirit, it's the invisible, it belongs to the church even, right? Uh, but then if science can prove, and then eventually like we see stuff emerging from the invisible that can now be explained by science, and then it's not no longer from spirit. Now it's only science, right? So I, I see, I don't know if you would agree with that, but I see that in a, like a big picture.

Yes. Yes, totally. Yeah. That, yeah, it's almost like, right, this idea of like, if one is there, then the other can't be like, but can, yeah. And maybe that's part of it is sort of this dance between them both and letting them all holding them loose, it all somewhat loosely, you know, but yeah, like the placebo effect, you know, is so great for like that question because, you know, there's all this research, research, science on, on the placebo effect and how like even people who know that they're in the placebo group of a trial, will have better outcomes than people without. So like, what is that? What does that mean? You know, like, I guess it means that maybe our intentions and our inner energy has something to do with physically what happens for us. The other thing I was thinking about before is I used to do centering pregnancy, which is a type of group prenatal care where the midwife sees a group of—

Mm-hmm.

People for prenatal care at once. And so you have basically like a class, like a prenatal education class with your midwife at, at the same time as you're going for your prenatal visits. And there was research on that type of class that showed that the more facilitative the, the midwife was, meaning like the less that the midwife talked and the more that she brought out the participants to talk, the better their outcomes were at birth.

Oh.

And so they had like, so it had a real physical, real life impact on their birth experience to be listened like to and to be able to share and connect with each other, you know? And like, yeah, so if you need the science, it is there. Yeah.

It reminds me of one of the more far out or woo woo kind of healing methods that I tried when I lived in Boston. I actually, I was referred to this practice by a very high up person in the biotech and a company that actually owns like pharmaceuticals and stuff. 'Cause you know, Boston is a huge hub for this. I thought this was very, very interesting. Whole sidebar conversation there about things that he shared with me that most of which are not talked in the public, but he sent me to this thing called Tong Ren Therapy and they were doing a lot of research with some of the universities in the Boston area. But it was very unique and what reminded me of it was you were saying about being heard and then also this idea of being in community basically. And most of the people that were there, I was on the lesser spectrum of challenges. Most of the people there were dealing with terminal cancer and they would be invited to step up and speak, give voice to whatever the issue was. And then, everybody else in the room would have these dolls and basically, they would— Basically, instruct us to do something energetically with the dolls related to the issue that the person is having. And then, the whole room would do this in in unison. And it was a very, very powerful experience and they were having a lot of success with healing. And it's interesting because I know I haven't followed the research, but I know kind of like what Carolina was saying early on, over time they're revealing more and more aspects of this that are actually being proven with science. So, yeah, it's just— yeah, it's really, really fascinating to look at all this stuff and to have an open mind. And so I'm thankful that there are practitioners like yourself that are doing this, Kelly and I. And I were talking about that beforehand. Of course, we're in Brazil, but Carolina was like, if she doesn't mind, she was just like, I would totally love to have Jane as my doctor because she gets the invisible and she actually is qualified to speak to the actual sciences, as we've said. So yeah, anyway, just more I felt like sharing.

Thank you. We could go like, there's like so many examples and Um, yeah, like the, the placebo effect is such a good one that, yeah, we can speak from the woo woo, but then when science catches up and I'm like, it's just technology. But I, I, that's one thing about like AI. I think that technology is going so fast that a lot of the things it already is, right? That we call it completely woo woo. Eventually we're going to have an explanation and it's just like, you know, so I think. We are walking, uh, like fast, speed to merging that. And I, and I just appreciate people on the side of science, like bringing that in. And then people also like on the woo-woo side, if we could call it that way, you know, using some time to bring science in. And so I appreciate that. And as if ever you go outside New York.

Count me in.

But changing a little bit the subject, and I feel that Often we see people like, I think I, I, I see your work like merging parts of you. So you had your spirituality and then you had your work and then you're seeing that like, oh, there is a language between the two. And now you're trying to bring that right to your public, to your audience and all of that. And often people struggle with being seen, uh, from that new space. Is that ever a thing for you? Like, you know, showing up. in this new identity, like, you know, out of like working with the medical system, but then having your own practice as well, or maybe it was never a thing and that's fine. But if you could just talk a little bit about like being seen in this new identity, if you had struggles and how to overcome.

Yeah, it's so, it's so, it's such a big thing in so many ways because part of, you know, one part of it is just like starting your own thing, right? Like, which is always, it's a whole, yeah, just a huge leap. And it's cool. Like, I feel like I'm joining a club of other like entrepreneurs and people who like understand. And I, it's like, I feel like I've met people along the way who are like, maybe they're a little further down the road than I am and they'll sort of give me these little like words of wisdom, like, you know, and I won't really know what, why. And then I will find out why, like, you know, like, um, that, yeah, that this whole, this whole practice, this whole endeavor is such an endeavor of my own personal transformation. Um, so I, I, yeah, I totally understand that question and, um, And yeah, and the way, the probably one of the biggest ways that I keep at it is it is my spiritual practice and, you know, really coming from this place of wanting to offer my gifts, you know, and offer what I uniquely have to offer. And I believe that everybody has that. Everybody is here to offer their unique gifts in their unique way. And so this has been me doing that and like doing that in the biggest way that I ever have. like to date, you know? So yeah, it's, it's a whole thing.

Yeah.

And, and, and yeah. And I think my, like, coming back to, you know, sometimes it's like just the same, the same wish that, that keeps resurfacing for me, or like, you know, like listening to that still small voice that's like, "Start your own practice. Do it like this." And sometimes it's about just finally listening to that voice, or maybe finally everything is coming together in a way that you can listen and act on that. And then also there are moments of big inspiration that I've had where I'll have a download of like, "Oh my God, this is what I wanna do and this is how I wanna do it." And I write it down and I'm so energized and excited. And then that moment passes, you know, and then I have to remember it, you know, and I have to trust it. I have to trust that it came from a really deep, authentic place and like, let it be like a guiding, like a North Star for me. Beautiful, thank you.

Yeah, and I like, I don't know what kind of wisdom you're talking about, but there's that whole saying, right? So many things that are meaningful. If you kind of knew all the little stumbling blocks you're gonna hit along the way, you might not actually go for it. But I think that's kind of like the design of the universe in a way. Like we're just shown the tip, you know, just like what we can see and then we need to take the next step and then the next part is revealed and then yeah, we grow so much through that process. So for me personally, I'm with you. Like choosing to step into entrepreneurship has been—

Yeah.

I think the greatest catalyst for my, for my own growth as a human, you know, and it goes far beyond like you have to practice so many skills simultaneously, communication and financial and, you know, everything else that's related to your actual occupation. And yeah, so it's, it's, it's been a real gift. And, and, and I almost feel, you know, of course we all want the success that comes on the other end of it. But in so many ways, at least in my own journey, I can line up the different milestones that I've hit along the way, but so much of it is just, for me, is just kind of the personal satisfaction of that growth and who I've been becoming through the process. And so, see, I really appreciate the way you described that. So kind of back to the healthcare system, because I think, I know this is an area you're super passionate about, and I know we've touched on a lot of areas already, but what is one thing that you wish that more people, more patients, more maybe people that need support from someone like yourself, that what's one thing that you wish more people understood about the work you do that you maybe you feel sometimes gets misunderstood or overlooked on people's patient journey?

Hmm. Um, something that gets overlooked in other areas, like when they're in other settings, like, or—

Just maybe in their, uh, in the way that they're approaching their care or as they're kind of navigating the challenges that show up for someone that is confronted by a difficult medical situation or condition. And, you know, we're all kind of, yeah, we're all coming into that with our own belief structures and systems about the way the world works and healthcare. And I'm just curious, yeah, from your perspective, what do you see that people are bringing to that conversation that maybe is not helpful for their healing or what they're, you know, they're looking for in that engagement?

Mm-hmm. I think that something that is true of our, of the medical system right now is that, you know, it is essentially what I call like industrialized. Like everything is chopped up into smaller and smaller bits to make it more like efficient as if it's a machine. So like, you know, like you, it's harder than ever to see the same provider every time that you come back to a practice or a hospital because I think it's more maybe somehow it must be more economical in some way to not prioritize like that continuity with the same provider. And then again, the way that insurance reimburses, it is incentivized to have short visits on multiple days versus one long visit or a couple of long visits and things like that make it, it kind of reduces your experience into this kind of like game of telephone where like a lot, there's a lot, inefficiency, even though it looks from a high level like efficiency, it's very inefficient because that means every time there's a new provider, they have to brush up on your whole history. And oftentimes in like 5 minutes right before they see you. And, you know, and so of course, like that means then you have to repeat yourself and they'll get something wrong and, You know, and it's like, there's a lot of, there's like so much value in like having your care held by one person, you know? And like having, like, I think this is what primary care used to be, but I have never experienced it. But you know, like having somebody who is like invested in you and your health and is, it is and is doing a lot for you is also like navigating, helping you navigate if you need to see specialists, why and who, and like that kind of like, um, deeper, uh, kind of care, um, is, is like getting harder and harder to find. And so that is one of my, the things that I offer. So yeah.

Yeah.

It makes sense.

It's pretty interesting. I'm just thinking the reality here in Brazil is a little different from the US. And I'm sure there is something on the system that's more similar, but like I take my kids to a doctor that took care of their dad. And so, and then his brothers and his sister and that he's an old man now, but he's very like sharp on his thinking. And, uh, and his sessions are about like an hour long and all of that. And as you were sharing about those 15-minute sessions, I wonder like if people experience like a loop, because it feels to me that you're always constantly telling the same story so the next person understands. And how, how does, how is it even possible to evolve? You know, like I'm sure there is an evolution, but the way you were saying, it's like, oh, if I need to tell my story 10 times and, you know, um, yeah, it was, uh, it's very interesting that some of those people repeat their story over and over and over and over and. Do they move beyond? I, I, I hope so. Right.

Yeah. And sometimes, yeah. And sometimes it's like, it's not even just about how much time, but it is also about like the presence that you're bringing to the visit as a practitioner. Because I have also had the experience in a very short visit of like, because I am listening really carefully. Like I am able to in 15 minutes bring them to a whole new place that—

Mm-hmm.

That if you're, which, you know, it's common if you have just a really full schedule, you know, to be basically doing like 3 things at once. You know, I'm sure a lot of people in the US have had the experience of like their provider is like typing like on their computer the whole time. They like don't even look at them and, and like nothing against those providers because like, there's certain environments where it's like you just have to do that kind of thing. But yeah, it's like the time, and then I guess hearing you, it just reminded me too that it's also like the depth of presence. But like that depth of presence is, you know, it takes something, right? It takes more. And so—

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm curious, like, I'm curious, like, uh, even like philosophy of care and understandings that you can build between two people. I feel like, uh, you know, of course, probably, you know, there's, there's kind of the, the macro of that, but everyone's kind of got a unique perspective. And it reminds me of like, so when I, I had a large tumor, it was a cancer scare. I, Ended up having it removed and I, and I was going to the Mayo Clinic, which is a very, you know, supposedly very, you know, good, good care. And I was, you know, it'd been months of working with the team there and this, you know, like the endocrinologist and all this stuff about like, and I was like, at the time I was living in Costa Rica, so I was going back to the United States here and there for appointments. And I finally, and I, and I was kind of resistant. I like, I wasn't sure if I wanted to have the surgery. I was thinking like, hey, maybe there's a way I can can do this without surgery. But, you know, I finally— my providers had finally gotten me to a point of understanding and belief that, okay, like, this is the right thing to do. Let's stay the course and do this. And then I remember I was back in the United States. I show up for like the pre-op or something like the day before and just oh so casually they're like, oh, by the way, your endocrinologist has left. This is your new endocrinologist. And— The previous endocrinologist said, I have this understanding. And because I had said, hey, if I'm going to have this surgery, I want to know that I can go back to Costa Rica and like recover there. And even if it's bad news, like there's a way we can handle this. And she was like, yeah, we'll totally make it work. It's probably not going to be bad news. And if it is, we'll figure it out, you know? And I show up for the day before the appointment. The new endocrinologist is like 180. She's like, she's like, oh no. She's like, you can't go back to Costa Rica. There's a high probability this could be cancer. And if this is cancer, you're going to have to be coming here. Every week for appointments and treatments. And I was like so freaked out because like it had taken me like months of like mentally kind of coaching myself up to be like, okay, I need to do this. And it was a pretty— I mean, it ended up going fine, but it was, it's just, it's, it kind of to me speaks to what you were talking about, which it was an awful kind of experience for me as a patient. And there's people dealing with way harder things even. And yeah, I just can't imagine sometimes like how how that feels to be in those shoes. And I'm sure it was hard. And you know, I also, I was thinking about that with the person that stepped into as the new doctor with very little history and not months of rapport built up. And she probably thought she was doing the absolute right thing of like managing my expectations and making sure that I would take the situation seriously or whatever. But yeah, anyway, that's my long-winded story, but it really relates to me. Yeah. Of what you were describing there.

Yeah, yeah, that's exactly, yeah, that's like a really, yeah, like magnified version of like what some people will experience in smaller ways. And I guess in sometimes in bigger ways, but yeah, no, it's a perfect example.

Yeah.

And stress hormones, you're probably not supposed to be like, I don't know, you know, you could, you could probably tell me better than me, but probably having that kind of shift, like within 24 hours of surgery is not necessarily great for your stress hormones going into a situation like that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And you've built like months of a relationship that was just suddenly gone. Like, and I've, I've heard a lot of stories like that where, yeah, it's like, there's a lot, it's very unceremonious. Like when their providers leave or something, it'll just be like, yeah, like they'll get an email or they'll show up for an appointment or something and they're just gone. And it's it's just, yeah, it's, it's, it's sad. It's like we're just, we're humans and we, we connect and we have relationships and that actually is part of the care. It isn't just this like side thing. It's really part of it. Um, yeah.

Yeah. And, and one thing I wanna say that I appreciate that you shared that like often on my side of things, because I'm the patient, I'm kind of like looking to my interest of like, oh, I would love to have a 1-hour session or, or I can even judge like, oh, I'm here with this this doctor or this nurse and they're not even looking at me and they're typing, or like, but then at the end of the day, like, we don't even know how much pressure they have on their side, right? Like maybe you do have numbers to reach, maybe you have emails to respond, maybe you have like all of that. So it's kind of like a system that's built that we need to pause and like, is it serving, like, you know, not only the people that are being served, but their own employees, because it's probably really hard if you need to see you see, I don't know, 100 people a day and you need to respond to 1,000 emails and you only have like 8 hours to do that. But, you know, uh, so it's just very interesting to see how, yeah, how crazy the dynamic is, um, is happening right now.

Yeah. Like I, I went into healthcare wanting to be from, from the perspective of a patient and wanting to be, you know, the best version of a provider that I could think of based on what I have had experienced as a patient. And then now that I've been in it, I have so much compassion for all the people who are working in healthcare that I had no idea what that like background felt like and, and looked like. So yeah, I appreciate you kind of calling attention to that too, cuz I, that is something that's really dear to me and important to me is like more compassion and like more of a, more bridging between like the providers and the patients and also among the providers too, because 'Cause like, yeah, there's, you know, the more that we can connect with each other and support each other and be like real with one another of like what, how, what this is like for us, then the more, you know, possible it is to change things for the better.

Yeah, it makes me think of, you know, in the work that we do, which is by no means life or death, you know, we work with people privately, but we also work with people in group communities. And I've probably never said this out loud, but like sometimes, you know, if I have, say, if I'm on a group coaching call and I have like 15 minutes with someone in that group context, I have so much I want to say and there's so much I feel like I can help them with, but I will start to get anxious in my own head because I'll be like, gosh, I've got like 10 or 15 minutes here. How am I going to like get this across as quickly as possible with the time that I have? And And that's— and it can cause me like to have that kind of like anxious feeling sometimes if I'm not centering myself, right? So I can only imagine, yeah, when you're dealing with the health system and people's true livelihood, you know, true health that, yeah, that's what the stakes are really high. And so, yeah, I never really thought of it that way, but that's kind of how I relate because it's my occupation, it's what I see as my service and I get all clammed up and it's just like giving someone advice on their business, right? And so, yeah, I can imagine that that level of stress on the provider day in, day out, just, it's not easy. So, yes, all to say, I hope that more people will continue to hear their calling and choose to be courageous and step into some version of what you're choosing to do. And so, yeah, from that, like, you know, I know you're— Yeah. You're still pretty early in this journey, you're in your first year of this new practice. From where you are right now, what would you say you're most proud of? And I like to ask this, like, yeah, results are great. And if you have them, that's wonderful. But I also like to say, you know, in who you're becoming as you're building this, what comes up for you when I ask that? What are you most proud of at this point in your journey? Oh.

I am proud of, of listening, you know, of listening to myself and, um, to that small voice and that voice of inspiration. And I'm experiencing a different kind of work that, than I ever have before that feels I feel much more connected to it and passionate about it and inspired by it than, you know, pretty much any other work I've done before. And that's really exciting. And so I'm proud of myself for listening before I knew what that was gonna feel like. And now I'm able to feel it and it's very— affirming of listening, you know.

Yeah.

And what's the, you know, if you were to kind of describe where you'd like to see this all going, what is the vision that you see yourself building over, you know, building towards over the next couple of years with what you're creating?

Well, one of the things related to what I was sharing about before, about the Centering Healthcare, where you're doing like group healthcare. I really wanna bring a circling element into my practice where patients can come for like maybe a monthly circle or circles with different health topics and allow that centering model, which the centering model also, they have other types of healthcare that they do that in, but it wouldn't be specifically that, but it would be—

Mm-hmm.

Drawing on some of that same thing of what we were talking about before, where we're like really connecting everybody with each other rather than, and sort of rather it just being like me and the patient all the time, bringing in this element of the group.

Mm-hmm. It's beautiful. And yeah, I know. So right now, correct me if I'm wrong, you are practicing in person and telemedicine in New York City effectively. What part of the city are you in for anyone that happens? I know we have a pretty international crew here on Substack, but for anyone that might be in that area or have a friend, family, or relative, yeah, what can they learn about how you're currently working with folks?

Yeah, I am in Manhattan in the Flatiron District right near Madison Park. And then I am also working via telehealth for anybody in New York State. And then I do also health coaching for anyone anywhere. So yeah, those are all the different ways. And I have a Substack, so that's the best way to like keep in touch with me or find out more about what I'm offering is to be on my Substack.

Cool. And that's interesting. And I know we're almost at time, but just if you were to give the 30-second version of it, Of course, sounds like the most support you can offer for people right now is if they're in the state of New York, but you know, with this health coaching you're doing, what would be kind of like the ideal person, you know, that you could serve with that type of work? Who would be a good fit for having a conversation with you around that?

So it's all women's health. So women who are looking for, a more in-depth, like more time and a more holistic approach to their health concerns. And it focuses mainly on reproductive healthcare topics, but it really is integrated to your whole health, you know? So if you're looking for somebody with both that spiritual element and the— Yeah. Scientific approach and wanting more guidance and accountability, then that's what I'm looking for.

Beautiful. Any final thoughts, Carolina, before we bring things to a close?

Yeah, I just want to say thank you for sharing. Thank you for your courage of stepping and listening to your voice. I think this is something that we all have, you know, the way you, you shared, we all have a voice that guides us, that tells us like, uh, in different ways what we came here to do, to serve, uh, and in a way that we're going to feel like complete and fulfilled and we're going to help others in our best version. So I truly appreciate the way you named that, that, you know, like I'm proud of like listening to my voice because I think it can be. If you have that and because you don't see it right away, it could be pretty scary to listen to the voice. But when you hear someone like you saying that, like, hey, I listen and I know I'm on my path and, you know, everything is flowing and it doesn't mean that it's not hard, that we're not going to hit walls like we do all the time, but it's just part of the thing. We're going to hit listening to the voice or not listening to the voice. So I truly appreciate that you brought that up and that you're very proud of you. So I'm proud of you too. And thank you so much. Thank you. So very much for sharing your time and your wisdom with us.

Thank you. Thank you for being here.

Yeah, thank you so much for having me and for amplifying, yeah, this kind of conversation. I think it's so important and I really appreciate the work that you both do also. So thank you.

Yeah, thank you. Cool. And we'll make sure that we share out your links and all the important details with the recap and Yeah, thank you again for being here, and we will be seeing you around. And thank you for anyone who was able to join us live. If you kind of caught us midstream, we'll, as I said, we'll be sharing out the full recap that you can check out there. So thank you. Have a great rest of your day.

Thank you, Jane.

Thank you.

Bye for now.

Bye, everyone.

Bye.