When Your Body Knows Before You Do — A Conversation with Midwife & Wisebody Founder Jane Riccobono

Welcome to Sacred Business Stories. This is our weekly Substack Live where we really just have an honest conversation about what it looks like to build a business that aligns with your deepest truth. And today we are excited to be joined by Jane Riccobono. She is the founder of Wise Body, Wise Body publication here on Substack, and she's also building a healthcare practice for women who really know they deserve better and who are ready to trust their bodies again while having the medical support they need. So welcome, Jane. We're really excited to have this conversation with you today.

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Yes, I'm very excited and I think it's a topic that it's, um, well, it's, uh, very, very important. So I just like to begin those calls, like sharing with people, like why we do Sacred Business Stories. And it's really like for inspiration, to inspire people to follow their hearts, to inspire people to create something that is truly meaningful for, for them. And if you're watching us here and if you have any questions, We're going to try to do our best to read the questions and maybe Jane, you can respond. Sometimes, like right now, it's actually much easier because before I was on the phone and then we would miss the questions. But right now with this desktop is much easier. So you're invited to participate. So basically, like, we just want to know a little more about your story, like, you know, the behind the scenes and how you decided to create the business that you now have.

Yeah. Uh, so I, um, I've been working in women's health for quite a while. I started out as a doula and a childbirth educator, and then I became a certified nurse midwife and a women's health nurse practitioner. And I became a midwife, you know, and a, a healthcare provider because I wanted to be better than some of the providers I'd had and. What I learned once I became a provider was how hard it is to be that kind of provider and just how much we're up against in the medical system and how much, yeah, it's very difficult within it to give the kind of care that I feel that people deserve and that feels good to give. So that's why I started Wise Body, women's health because it's for me and it's for my patients as well. Like I wanna be able to help people in the way that, you know, using everything that I have including my spiritual background, my meditation background, you know, I, I bring like a, a midwifery approach really to other types of women's health because I really feel that midwifery is such a beautiful practice in terms of the— it starts with trusting the body and trusting the body's ability to heal itself and supporting the body in that and being really humble in terms of what kinds of interventions we make and being very thoughtful. And then also because it's so holistic, you know, it's always integrating the whole life of the patient. So emotions, relationships, spiritual practice, all of those are, you know, kind of just part of the fabric of midwifery, which is what drew me to it. And I feel that so many of those ingredients are really needed in all kinds of healthcare. Hmm.

I love that. And, and I love the name Wise Body and just reconnecting. Like, that's a belief that I have for myself. That our body knows what it's doing, you know, even if it feels sometimes like that's wrong or it's like painful, but it's actually reacting to something, uh, that it's happening there. Right. So I, I like this. I don't know where I heard that, but like this thing of like when you're getting sick is actually the body trying to be healthy already. Right. Because there's something there that it's like, uh, triggering the body to have that response. And the response is not the wrong thing. And I just love that I see I see your work and I see other, uh, doctors like just standing up for, hey, the body knows what it's doing. Uh, I would love to hear from you, like just more into that, like how, because I think that in general, like we are disconnected from that. Like we were taught that the body is wrong and then like, oh, you have a pain in your hand, like, you know, cut your hand and you find this, I'm being a little drastic here, but you know, so like, how do you see and where we are in the society, like reconnecting to that wisdom, like does in general people are trusting it? It's like, it's challenging for people to, you know, coming from a system that is feeding us medication and all of that. Like, how do you see the relationship with like between most people and their bodies right now? The people coming to your world, like your, your patients.

Yeah, it really depends. You know, some, some, I think that a lot of people, especially people who are attracted to my work, have at least a suspicion that like we aren't listening enough, you know, or that there's, there's more to the story than has been able to come out in a typical 15-minute doctor's appointment. So, Yeah, I think, I'm not sure if that totally answers your question, but I guess, you know, some people are at, at different places with that. You know, sometimes I think the first thing that a lot of people need is really just to be heard by a medical professional and, and seen in like a much more total way than you tend to get in the medical system. There's a really big healing power in just speaking and having the time to share everything that's happened to you about a particular condition or your relationship with the medical system. Um, that happens a lot where people will just be like, it almost feels like a therapy appointment at first where they're kind of like sharing how disappointed they are in the care they've received and And it's like just that, like, just like that ability to build some trust there around what was trust that was broken in the past. Um, it's like, it's kind of the most important place to start sometimes is like acknowledging that. And then because like there's the listening to the body and then there's also the relationship between the patient and provider. And I feel like they're, they're interrelated. So, you know, once you can relax in the visit, you know, once you can like feel that it's almost like sharing that like welcomes your body and your body's intelligence into the visit. And then like things come out, you know, just from the story. And, and that's a, that's like an old thing in medicine even that just like usually the answer is with the patient. If you can listen to all the details and really synthesize and process it, you get so much further so much more quickly, even though at first it takes patience to just like listen. Um, and then, and then yeah, a lot of those cues are there, whether spoken or in the body language of the patient, the tears of the patient. So yeah.

Yeah, I guess it's not something that you can get in 15 minutes, right?

Yeah.

If you're like rushing a session and yeah, and I love what you share about like, and I, and I, and I, I think that's, um, yeah, like people are like having a suspicion. Like they're like, I'm feeling that there's something that it's not right, but I don't know fully what's there, what's in the other side, what's, how to be different, right?

Yeah. Yeah.

I remember for myself, sorry, I just want to share quickly, like my story, like when I've, I've suffered from like headaches and migraines for years, years, like my whole life. And then I remember at one point I'm kind of like, I wasn't born like this. Like, I don't, you know, there's something here that I can maybe shift because, you know, like, but I, I, it wasn't through the traditional medicine, like. Like taking medications and all of that. And like, I found the healing, but it took me, it took myself like to listen to my body. It took me to talk to other people like energy healing and things that are very different from, uh, the traditional way of, uh, dealing with the body. So I just, yeah, I just, I'm very thankful that I was able to find that path. And I'm just very, very thankful that there's more people, uh, choosing to guide people in this way. So.

And I was curious, Jane, when, you know, I know you've kind of been on the more quote traditional path of healthcare for quite some time. When was kind of the moment or kind of the, yeah, the moment when you kind of decided like that this, that you kind of had enough and that there was a new way that you kind of wanted to start moving into? Can you share a little bit more about what your experience has been like as a provider leading up to starting Wise Body?

Yeah, I, I guess I just, I didn't see a path in the system that exists that, um, really made sense in terms of how, what I knew to be true. And sort of like we were just talking about, those, like, those suspicions that you have, or like my own personal journey with my own health and my own spiritual practice this and kind of just seeing how these, these really important parts of life and being a human were just, you know, they're not, uh, there wasn't a way to have them in like the typical path that I would see for a nurse practitioner or a nurse midwife. Um, and, um, yeah, and I was, I mean, I got burned out, you know, I think it's like a pretty, um, That's the more— that's the shorter answer. Like, I was just like exhausted and like, uh, went through so many iterations of like trying to make the work work for me, you know? And, um, it just felt like there was— it just felt like so draining. Um, so I just kind of— it almost felt in a way like I didn't have a choice, like I had to try a new path.

And I can imagine also just having been on the other side of the table and have gone through some chronic conditions myself. Yeah, it can be very frustrating, like when you don't feel that you have that space to be listened to and to have the kind of care that you just described kind of earlier in this conversation. So I can imagine when you see the benefit to the patient of that, but you're not in a, in a setup where you're able to provide that, that has to be incredibly frustrating. And I don't know if— and I have to feel that there's many more providers that feel that exact way. And it's just, they don't, they don't see the path for creating the better conditions because they're just not set up for success. And yeah, I'm just curious if there's anything more you, you would like to say about that or can say about that.

Yeah, definitely. I, you probably know the term moral injury. It's like started as a military term of like when people don't necessarily do something terrible, but they witness something terrible and then knowing about it is like really painful. You know, there's that, there's a version of that in the medical system of like seeing the possibility of what could be or seeing the ways in which the system is failing people and feeling yourself as a part of that system is horrible because you, you know, you can't— there's only so much you can combat some of that. And so like, there's— you're always kind of confronting that feeling of like, it's sort of like a guilt or like a, you know, just feeling like you wish there's more you could do. And yeah, it's, it's draining and it comes up all the time when I talk to colleagues and other people like nurses, doctors. And yeah, and you know, a lot of people don't, you know, necessarily have the time and the space to pave a new way, or maybe not the personality type. I think I do have like that sort of like, let's do a new thing kind of personality. So I hope that like, yeah, I hope that that, that I can, you know, I don't know, model that or create some more space for that for, um, for other practitioners. Cuz yeah, for sure, lots of people feel that way.

Hmm. And, and I'm curious, like you mentioned that like, like through your own path and like your discovery and your spirituality and your meditations, you're kind of like seeing that there was more. How do you see the relationship between spirituality and health?

That's a good question. It's a deep question.

Whatever comes to you, like, you know, I have my own opinions and own experiences, but like, how do you see that? And I know we could go like very deep into that, but anything that comes to you.

Yeah, I mean, I, I, I love, I think that I see health as a part of our own transform— transformation journey as people. And so I guess my worldview in general, which includes healthcare, is this idea of like, we all have a path that we're meant to walk in this life. And so our health, our body is a part of that path and of navigating that path. And so And, you know, it's just kind of true no matter what, right? Like what happens in your body, whether it's pregnancy or a chronic condition, you know, I mean, that has a huge effect on you and shapes you in some way. And so I think that bringing spirituality into it and making meaning out of it is a really important part of being a person and a part of healing, right? Like something can shape you in, in a way that's character building, that you learn and grow, or it can like beat you down, right? And so like when you bring that spiritual aspect into life and it helps you connect with meaning, especially with hard things, right? And then also I think can be a really important connecting thing among people. You know, sharing in shared experiences. And, and that's also, there's a, I think, profoundly spiritual aspect to that as well. Hmm. Yeah.

I love that. I, I see for myself that my own healing with, um, with headaches was like a, almost like a wake-up call that there was more to what I could see. Uh, and I, and I often tell the story that like, I think I had so, um, much headaches in my life because I couldn't, you know, that's my pattern. I'm not saying that everybody that has a headache is related to that, but I was so focused on the things that I could see and like planning and like, it has to be like this, this, this, this, this, and like overthinking so much that my brain was like on fire and my head was just responding to that. And then once I learned that like, oh, maybe there's something more happening here, you know, and I'm being very simplistic here, but just understand that there's more to what we can see. I felt that that relationship with the invisible helped me to, you know, find my healing and keep myself healed. Like, there's one thing that's like, oh yeah, now I found the healing. And then how do you keep yourself in that path, right? Of not receiving that, not having that sickness or disease again. So I, I mean, my own experience is just like very much related.

So, um, Jane, one of the things I wanted to ask about is I know that you're, you know, this is a relatively new project and endeavor undertaking building this business. And yeah, I have a lot of respect for kind of your courage in a way to choose to, as you said, like walk this path that's a little bit outside of the boundaries of the traditional path. And, um, you know, my experience working with lots of entrepreneurs is that Yeah, it's perfectly normal to have like fear and resistance coming up as you move forward with your meaningful work. And so I'm curious, what has your experience looked like as you've kind of moved down this path to bringing this to life? And, you know, where's an area where that's coming up for you maybe now, if you're willing to share? And what are the sort of practices you do to keep yourself moving forward in spite of that, you know, so that you can keep bringing this stuff forward?

Yeah. Um, the first thing that comes to mind is, is support. Like I try, I was doing something like this for like a year, just totally kind of on my own and it's so tough. And so, um, yeah, being in communities of entrepreneurs, um, having coaches, you know, like it's really, um, I think, I think it's kind of essential for me, um, because otherwise it's just too much of a lonely, um, path. And it's, it's, yeah, it's like so easy, kind of like, uh, what Carolina, how you were just describing, like you learned the healing and then you have to actually do it. It's like you have the inspiration and then, and that's fun, and then you have to like do all the things and that's the hard part. And there's so many opportunities for self-doubt. Yeah. Or yeah, just sort of, I feel like I, yeah, I don't know. I just, I think it's helpful to have people outside of you who are on the journey with you, both as accountability and also because, you know, to have some voices of support there to combat those inner voices of like self-doubt.

Yeah, that's beautiful. I mean, and you're absolutely right. Like to have the idea is noble and yet, you know, that's not enough, right? It's truly that decision to kind of get off the fence and start taking that meaningful action to bringing to life. And yeah, I mean, I echo what you said. I've always sought out mentors and support in my own ways because we don't— yeah, we can't see outside of our own box, right? So there's that. There's like perspective and kind of seeing our own blind spots. I know that was a big thing when we started Sacred Business Flow, for example. It was, you know, I've been doing marketing for many years and here I am like with Carolina working on this new message. But it was like, you know, I knew there are parts of it that I couldn't see or that I was blind to because I was so close to it. And so there's that. And then, yeah, absolutely what you described around, you know, entrepreneurship entrepreneurship can feel like a very lonely path, especially if you're building something virtually online. So you're always at home in your apartment and, you know, you're doing things that feel really meaningful to you and taking action. And then I just wrote about this last week, you know, you close the laptop and you look around and it's like there's nobody to— there's no one to celebrate with, right? And so, yeah, I think that is the opportunity for having community as well. So yeah, thank you for sharing that. Is there anything else that you'd like to say?

Oh yeah, I was gonna say I have, I really like what Carolina has said about like falling in love with the process, you know, because yeah, bringing it back to that, like finding meaning and seeing it as part of my own evolution and my own path and like falling in love with the process is like this lovely antidote to the sort of like anxiety and fear that can come up and, you know, or Um, or also like trying to, like, like you often say, like try to have fun with it, you know, like it's like we do have to, I feel I have to actively bring in those like positive things like love and fun. Like, because if I don't, like I just kind of like droop. Yeah.

And I, I truly admire your, your path because Like, and we all have, uh, different trajectories, right? But I feel that, um, I don't know, maybe like it's a question for you, like when you are in the, like we're used to do stuff in a certain way and you were like within a system, right? And then the minute you decide to go off that track in a way, um, it's probably very challenging, right? That moment of decision of like, now I'm going to do something that's like different. So one thing is like, I was doing something completely different and then I started doing like energy work and all of that, but I wasn't really like, it was like two very different identities, but in a way, like you're carrying a lot of your wisdom and a lot of the things that, like there's stuff in the system that works, right? That's like stuff there that like, um, help actually people, but like maybe the structure in how they're providing stuff. So then you shift yourself, like, how do I Not sure if I'm being clear, but like moving from the system, but carrying the things that work from that space. And then knowing that there's like a lot of people still doing, you know, that, that thing, they're still like your, your colleagues. Like my point is like my colleagues from before, they're no longer my colleagues because it's completely different. But in your situation, you're moving that and you're not completely off that, you know, that way of being. So how resistance is stare, or like even the, this, this fear, like how it shows up for you. I, I just think it's like really, really brave.

Thank you. I, yeah, I appreciate that question. I, I did have a moment where I was considering doing something like more different from what I, you know, from being a nurse practitioner. And, and that was a really important decision for me was to actually keep, you know, that the medical part of what I do and not just kind of, you know, maybe just be a health coach or something like that. And, um, and for me, the way I think of it is almost like, like all these, and it, it's different for everyone. It might not, this might not be true for everyone, but for me, like there's all of this resources of the world that I have benefited from in terms of like my education and my experience in the medical system and my, you know, um, my experience with patients and all of that and my knowledge, my, my medical knowledge, you know, that I, it feels almost like I have a responsibility to keep it and share it and maybe just me, but just do something new with it instead of just going on a new whole new path. And, um, and it is tricky. Yeah, because I have a lot of respect for my, you know, for everyone who works in the medical system, you know. And like, it's kind of a fine line between, um, kind of critiquing it and also like caring, caring for the people in it, you know, because 'cause pretty much all the people are very well-meaning and it's really just the system that's really so difficult in many cases. And yeah, so it's hard. It's a hard thing to do. So yeah, it's a good question. And like, it's something I'm very passionate about is that like, I care a lot about the patients and I also care a lot about the providers, like the doctors and the nurses and, you know, the nurse practitioners. Um, so yeah.

Yeah, I love that. And I see that it's often like a challenge when people are like in this space of like transition and sometimes, um, and we've seen that with clients that they almost have the need to reject everything that came before, uh, because they don't find the bridge, right? Like, this is where I was and this is where I want to go. And then, but it's kind of like, this is part of you. And when I, when we say that, like, oh, Sacred Business is like bringing all of you forward, like you get to choose how you're going to use that knowledge, but just for your inner experience, if you can honor that, then the transition of identity becomes much easier because You are not negating a part of you, right? And I just think that, you know, you were kind of like the way you explain and the way you were doing it honors all of that, you know, and it's just beautiful to just see it. So thank you.

Yeah. And I, it makes me think of like, uh, being an artist, like I love, I feel very inspired by thinking about life as a work of art or like as like everything we do as creative in some way. And so it's almost like, yeah, like my background is some of the tools I have and some of like the art supplies I have. So like, how do I want to use them? And rather than being like trapped in some bad decision I made or something, to like see it more as like this opportunity of I have all of this, all of these resources, like how do I want to use them?

Yeah, and I do think you have this really beautiful opportunity to be part of leadership as more and more providers and practitioners are willing to kind of step out and examine this. And I see this all the time here. That's one of the beautiful things about Substack. I think there are a lot of other really incredible healthcare professionals that I see that are sharing messages that have a lot of similarity to, to what I see you sharing in your message. And so, yeah, I feel that as more people are brave and courageous and willing to kind of step out, then, you know, you are in a sense paving the way for Yeah, for it to be safe for more people to, to open themselves up to that. And, you know, hopefully one day we'll, we'll find, uh, I know this is one of the most complex, uh, things we're navigating in society, but hopefully one day we'll end up in a space where, yeah, healthcare has a completely different face and meaning to it. Um, but yeah, another question I wanted to ask you about, um, was, you know, I think kind of related to what I was saying earlier about the loneliness, the isolation. I see a lot of creators facing challenge around how to make meaningful, authentic connections as they're kind of starting to put themselves out there, sharing this message that is so close to their heart. And I'm just curious for you, what is your kind of personal approach to connection? Like, how do you see that? And, you know, what, what advice do you have or what steps are you taking as you're kind of trying to put yourself out there more and share this very important message, you know, more consistently?

I Um, I guess it's like there's, there's the, the online version and then the in real life 3D version, and like both are part of it. Um, I, I've been way more open to Substack lately, or like I'm excited, I'm getting excited about Substack and like the opportunities there, um, in terms of, of connecting with people who are very specifically aligned with, with me. Um, so I excited about that as a place to like grow more in terms of my connections. Um, I feel like I have this very negative view of, of social media and like don't want to be on it ever. And when Substack came out with the feed and stuff, I was like, no, no, not another one. But like, but I, I, I am seeing, I, I actually now I do see the value and I'm trying to like be more open to that because, um, Yeah, because it's a— I've always really liked the ethos of Substack and, um, it feels more genuine. Um, so, so yeah, that's an area that I'm concentrating. Um, and then it's definitely a, a journey in terms of just like presenting myself and my work in person in like my various communities. Um, because yeah, it feels a little scary still to be like, um, doing this new thing and, um, But I feel like that's a really important part of the process. And each interaction I have, each time I like talk to like, whether it's, you know, colleagues or I have a bunch of different, like I'm in a collective that's different types of healers, like therapists and acupuncturists and massage therapists. And that's a really nice place to sort of get, actually to your other question, to get some support. 'Cause it's, you know, it's nice to work with other people who are in some sort of healing space and just kind of like have some community there, not just entrepreneurship, but healing entrepreneurship. Um, but yeah, so it's kind of like this work in progress of, um, making connections both personally and then online.

And I'm just curious, like when you connect with like healers, like I, like you came from like, let's say the system and you have this like more traditional uh, way of seeing, and then like your coworkers there, and they see that. And in this other side here, there's like the healers that they also have certain opinion about the system. Um, but me as like, as a healer for, you know, for some time and doing energy work, I also found that that was like a big desire of mine to work with a doctor, you know, like I'm like, how beautiful would be to merge those two worlds. And I think that that's what you're doing with your capacity right now, like, you know, um, in what you were creating. But like the healers that you were talking about, the things that you were doing, like, how are like their reactions?

Um, yeah, people are really intrigued and like, I feel there's, I feel there's really, uh, hunger for blending together the medical and the sacred and, you know, bringing in intuition into like the way we do medicine. And yeah, I feel like people just will kind of like, like perk up a little, you know, and like sort of like lean in a little and be like, wait, what? You know, like, and it's like, it's cool cuz it's, it does feel a little bit like people are like, wait. 'Can we do that?' Like, you know, like, 'Is this allowed?' Like, like, it's, it's changing like a little bit the social contract or something about like what we do or how we do it. And then, and then oftentimes, yeah, people will be like, 'Oh, I have like a couple people who I would refer to you like that.' Like, I— it's kind of like they didn't know until they heard it, um, that it was something that they could refer someone to.

Yeah, I love it. That would be my guess. Like, I think I would be like, what? What are you doing there?

I feel that way myself about it.

I love it.

And that's what's so beautiful about creating a platform or having a platform like Substack is that I have the sense, and I've seen it more and more, that, you know, there's millions of people that will have this wait, what kind of impression when they hear what you're up to. And so, yeah, it's just it's really wonderful to see you kind of embracing this path and putting yourself forward in this way. And yeah, I know Caitlin and I are very, yeah, very excited to see how this project continues to take shape for you. So, yeah, just kind of before we close, I, yeah, you know, I love to just ask people, you know, obviously we're here on Substack. I believe this is kind of the main place you're, you're building your home right now, but if someone's either here with us now or they're watching this later on replay and you know, they're get curious about your approach to women's health, like what would be kind of a first step that you might suggest for them if they want to, to learn more about your work?

Yeah, I would definitely check out my Substack. It's Wise Body Women's Health, and there are links in there to my website too. And if you want to talk to me, reach me directly, you can do that through my website or on Substack.

Oh yeah. And we'll, um, yeah, we'll definitely, we send out a, we always send out a recap after these interviews, which we'll of course share with you, but we'll make sure that, yeah, all the appropriate links, um, you know, make their way into there as well. Yeah. So, well, thank you again. It's been really nice to have you here with us and, um, it's been an honor and, um, yeah, thank you for being here with us.

Thank you.

Thank you so much for having me. It was really lovely to have this conversation and inspiring and yeah. So thanks so much.

Yes. Thanks for, for being here with us and for doing the work that you're doing, because I, I believe it's like, um, it's a necessity. It's really, really important. And I'm very happy that, um, you're stepping up and, and doing this and creating such a beautiful space for women to relate to their bodies in a different way.

Thank you.

Thank you. And thank you everyone that was watching.

Bye.

Take care.

Bye.