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We're live. So welcome to Sacred Business Stories. This is our weekly Substack Live where we really just have an honest conversation about what it looks like to build a business that aligns with your deepest truth. And yeah, today we're excited to be here with our friend Mac Dom.

Is—

do I say— did I say your last name right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you got it. Nice.

Cool. So yeah, he is the writer, uh, many of you may have experienced his work here on Substack. He is the writer behind Porn-Free Millennial, and he is the host of the Porn-Free Millennial podcast. And this is where he's really exploring topics like recovery, identity, and just sharing encouragement for people on their path. So welcome, Mack. It's really wonderful to have you here with us.

Yeah, thanks for having me on.

Yes. Thank you so much for being here with us. And welcome, everyone. We like to make this conversation dynamic. So if ever you have a question, put it in the chat and we're going to do our best to read and have Mac responding. And I always like to remind ourselves and also to remind, um, whoever is listening why we do Secret Business Stories and it's purely for inspiration. So we see a lot of people creating like beautiful businesses that they feel it's like it's their calling. It's why they're here. It's a combination of all of who they are. Um, and it's beautiful that you're here because I have, uh, I want to hear more about your story. It's kind of like, I like to, to say that like your sacred business is a combination of your victories and your certifications and your diplomas, as well as your challenges and your failures and all of that. Right. And when we are able to put that together and authentically share from that space, I think we serve the world in a very beautiful way. So if you could just guide us through, like, sometimes like people see where you are and they don't know like, oh. It's hard for them to just begin because I don't know how I'm going to go, where I want to go from where I am right now. And we always started like from zero, right? At one point, something like, how you need to start. So could you guide us like when you had your calling, a little bit behind the scenes or story and what is your business now?

Yeah. So I think like a high level, uh, overview of it really, I mean, Porn-Free Millennial, obviously there's that word in there, it's like the elephant in the room that I think not a lot of people want to talk about, but it's a, it's a pretty widespread thing and it's a giant industry, probably one of the biggest industries in the world. And really my story started when I was 10, you know, and I, I saw porn for the first time and it kind of captured me, you know, at that young age to where just like a lot of young kids and boys especially, it's something that draws you in, you know, it's probably not something you should be looking at. But you're starting to enter into that, that, that age where your hormones are gonna start firing up and you, you're not quite sure how to talk about it with other people. So it's something that you keep secret. And with me, it started at the age of 10. And then it really like locked in as I became a teenager. College, and then going into my marriage, it was just something that was there. I would say a secret life, something that I kind of just had off to the side. Like people would see Mac, you'd look at me and be like, oh, hey, that's Mac. You know, hey, he's trustworthy. He tells the truth. He's honest. Um, he has integrity. I grew up Christian. So yeah, he's pursuing God, but at the same time I had this, this separate self, um, that I wasn't too proud about. And really for me, um, it was something in my life, I think, that I always like really struggled with. I would try to quit it. I didn't really want to look at it, but I just kept going back to it. And it didn't really, um, it didn't really cause like a huge impact in my life really until I got married and until that came out. And it didn't come out with me being honest about it. It came out with me being caught. And that was about 6 months into my marriage. And I handled it completely just terribly, awfully when I look back on it. I was just really, I would say, almost like gaslighting her and justifying it, getting defensive. That was when I ended up saying, hey, I need to do something. Cause it was like a big kind of fight. And, uh, that was like a rock bottom moment just so quickly in the marriage to where I had to go to the, I went to my grandparents' cabin, listened to a bunch of Porn-Free Radio, which is a great podcast as well, podcast, did some fly fishing, some introspection, some reading. And, um, that's like really when my recovery journey began. You know, it was really rocky when it started. And then, you know, fast forward, you know, had some moments where I had some sobriety for a while and was getting into recovery groups and, you know, going to Bible study with guys, getting involved in church. And, you know, I just had some relapses again and some points of time where I just wasn't telling the truth. And it just really caused a lot of pain in my marriage. So ultimately, we did go through divorce and that was Wow, close to 3 years from now was when the divorce finalized. And the interesting thing was that Porn-Free Millennial I actually created while I was still married because I was, I think, at like almost 2 years sober and I was like really pumped up about it. And I think this will be good for the audience. You know, if you have something that you're passionate about, but it's something that, like you're saying, is really sacred to you, like pursue it. Um, because it was something for me where it was something I was passionate about and I was getting ready to do my podcast. I was getting ready to write. I think I had like my first article ready to go. And then I had a really bad relapse out of nowhere, kind of felt like it was out of nowhere. It wasn't out of nowhere, but, um, at the time we like moved, we got our new house. I think there was just a lot of busy things going on in our life. Um, but what I look back on in hindsight was that I really disconnected myself from like my Bible study group. from my therapist that was in the city that we were in before. And then when we moved, I was away from friends and family. So I didn't really carry that support structure with me. So I basically created Porn-Free Millennial. I think it was back in 2021, but I really didn't pick it up and start rolling with it until a few months after my divorce finalized, which I think I was like in May. Um, 2023 was like really when I started to write again. And start a podcast. And I think for me, like why it was so important for me to do this and like why Porn-Free Millennial is so important to me is because like I lived through a lot of that, you know, I lived through a lot of like what porn can do to your relationship. And not just your relationship really, but what it can do to your soul and your connection. I mean, I'm Christian and porn is, it's a disconnecting thing, you know, it disconnected me from my faith. And I think that really had a lot of, uh, the byproducts of that were not good, uh, you know, and I lived through it and I had some really low moments, uh, moments like where I was really questioning my identity, uh, questioning like, who is this person that I thought I was? And I think Porn Millennial for me is a way to share my perspectives. And it's not just like all the bad stuff, right? It's the good things too. And the life that I'm living now is, it's a completely radically different life than what I was living before. I'm not in my RV right now, but I do the RV life. You know, I work and I travel out of my RV right now. I'm doing a pit stop with family for a little bit, but, you know, use Starlink. I do my corporate job, 9 to 5 kind of thing in RV traveling. But really for me, like the Porn-Free Millennial, It was just a way to share my perspectives and it's more of like a warning for people, hopefully to wake people up to it. Because I know I'm not the only one because I've worked with people. I'm in recovery groups. I talk to people all the time through Substack that reach out to me to either share, hey, like this is a win that I just had, or hey, I'm really struggling. Can you talk to me? What are some tips? So I think it's a way to wake people up a little bit. Like, you know, do A, B, and C, but more of, hey, let's think about this a little bit deeper. And, um, you know, let's take it, let's take some different angles at it.

Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing. And it's so powerful because like everything that you shared, like, I think it takes a lot of courage, you know, like there is one world that you can recover for yourself and then it's awesome and it's great. And I'm not diminishing that. And there's another one that you recover. And you want to put that out there, you know, just to make that visible so others can see themselves. And I think this is like very, very powerful. Um, so when you created the Porn-Free Millennial, was in the attempt to build that structure for yourself because you moved? Did I understand that correctly?

Yeah, I think at the time when I went, yeah, I moved. And, um, at the time, I mean, I was just really fired up about it, you know, and I think it was something that kind of started, you know, I had one Bible study where I shared with the group, you know, this really deep thing. And what I noticed was, I was like, the next guy after me shared something really private and something that they were struggling with. And it wasn't porn, it was something else. But that was, I think, one of the first times, like, I really realized, like, wow, like, if I shared something about my story, you know, that might just open up somebody, that might open the door for somebody to share something. that they're struggling with. And that's really what I found out, you know, I think as guys, I mean, just for me speaking from a male experience, maybe Phil, you can relate, but I think sometimes we kind of keep things close to the chest. Um, you know, and maybe that's how we're raised in culture, potentially, at least in American culture of like, you know, guys just don't really share your feelings, you know, keep them inside. And I don't think that that's necessarily a great thing. Sometimes it works. But, uh, yeah, I think for me, like really when I started it was like, I just needed to get it, get out the word and share and share, uh, you know, start talking about something that people don't want to talk about, you know, get it out there, you know, hey, there's the elephant in the room. I'm going to shine a light on it and I'm going to point at it and say, that's the elephant, everybody. And hey, if it's me that's being vulnerable and sharing my story and Cause sometimes, yeah, like I, sometimes I look in the mirror, I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm like, am I really gonna share this much about myself? Because it is a little scary sometimes, but I think I've kind of crossed that threshold to where I hope I can be like a safe person that someone can read my stuff. They'd be like, wow, like that he's sharing, you know, what he went through. And I'm not trying to hold things back because I hope that somebody can like read it or listen to it and be like, okay, well if he's doing it, then I can do it. And I think that's like one of the biggest things with porn and really addictions or bad habits that we have is I think once we get it out in the light, you know, I think the light's like a great disinfectant, right? Because like once you get in a light, it starts like a process. It starts getting things moving to where you can't just be in the same place anymore. You have to take some kind of action, right? And, um, typically what I find with, with recovery is once you start taking those actions, right, you start seeing that you can live a different life than you thought you would be living your whole life. Because I mean, when I was young, um, even when I was going through some tough times in marriage, it was like, you know, am I ever gonna just get past this stuff? Am I ever gonna be able to live free of this stuff? Uh, you know, am I ever gonna be in a relationship where porn's not involved in it? And I was in a relationship after I I got divorced. I waited about a year, dated this amazing girl. Um, we ended our relationship, but it was a porn-free one. Um, and I mean, it was like a night and day difference of just how we got along, how we interacted with each other. Um, so I think that's like living proof that, you know, it can happen. And then when it does happen, it's, it's actually quite a beautiful thing.

I love it. And it, it's fascinating because I think you said something that it's, um, It is true. Like if we try to hide something, it's so much heavier. Right. And we like, I don't know, in different versions, like it, like probably there's like a lot of guilt and shame and all of that. And then you hide. And then when you want to experience like freedom, you're like, I'm going to just put this out there. So there's nothing to be hidden. And now I can just speak freely. How was the first time you shared? Like, how was your inner experience when you're like putting yourself out there? Do you remember?

I think I felt pretty exhilarating, you know, like I, I'm a pretty outgoing person. Uh, so I think like just being able to say what was in my heart, you know, and say like what was in my soul and to be able to get it out there. Um, it was definitely like really exciting. I'd say like a little bit nerve-wracking. I mean, if I listen to my first podcast, you know, it's funny. It's like my little brother, he's my accountability partner. Like we talk to each other every day because, you know, we, we both struggle. And, uh, I remember like I was sending him like the first podcast. He's like, yeah, you say like, um, a lot, you know, and you get like this feedback. And I was like, yeah, I know, but I still just so excited about it. Cause I think for me, like I'm just really passionate about it because I do think that, um, it is something that a lot of people struggle with, but they, they don't really want to talk about it. And like, I've had so many conversations with people that have just been amazing. Like I had a really good friend that reached out to me. and you know, he's like, hey, I, I, I was really struggling for a while, but I'm, I'm, I'm sober now and your podcast and your writing really helped. And I, that's the thing that like really just, it fires me up. You know, that, that's the kind of stuff I think I've always been passionate about in my life is just seeing people grow. Um, you know, you're not doing it for them, but you're, you're planting like a seed. And then hopefully in my, in my life, like I'm living a life to where I can like lead by example. And that's, it's not like I'm perfect all the time. Like I've had podcasts where I've had a relapse and I talk about it. So it's just trying to model that, I think. And there's a lot of young people on here too on Substack. And that's a cool thing too, because I have a lot of young people in the audience, like younger guys, younger women too. And just being like, hey, if you can like, if you can attack this and you can, you you can build an identity that doesn't allow or doesn't coincide with this other self that you're kind of putting over here, you know, putting to the side, that's going to really set you up for some good stuff, I think.

Yeah, I have a tremendous amount of respect for you, man. Just like, you know, as someone who I struggled with visibility, like being, you know, just even being on a Substack Live like this, like 2 years ago, this was something that would've really challenged me. Like now I feel very comfortable having this conversation, but then I think about the message that we're sharing is such a feel-good message and it doesn't require that same, I don't know, there's just something about, you know, putting that out there, what you shared. That's just like, it's tremendously, just have a lot of respect for it because I know there's a lot of people like me that struggle with visibility and putting themselves out there and struggle to get out of their own way. And then, yeah, just to see you doing it and being willing to admit something courageously and owning it and also just being like, hey, this is real human stuff and it's okay to talk about it. Yeah, I just have a lot of respect for that. And yeah, I just, one of the things that we talk about a lot with our audience is this idea that it's perfectly normal to have fear and resistance come up. And especially when you're doing something that's meaningful, right? That is close to your heart. That is service-driven. And so I don't know, was that, was that probably, was that the scariest thing that you shared? Was that the first thing? Or I'm just curious if you go back, like, what would you say kind of one of the scariest moments in your kind of visibility journey has been? And how did you kind of work with that to kind of keep yourself moving forward? Because yeah, I think there could be something there for folks that might experience something similar.

Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of the fears are are probably similar to like what a lot of people have. I mean, I think part of it's like, is anyone gonna like read what you're writing or is anyone gonna listen? I think when I first, I mean, when I first started writing and podcasting, I mean, if you looked at like my stats through Substack, I mean, I think my first article maybe got like 20 or 30 reads, you know, or my first podcast might've got, when I first released it, maybe like 5 downloads like the first day or something. So I think Maybe part of the fear is that, hey, I'm, I'm putting my heart and soul out here and it's not really like, no one's really seeing it. Um, I think that's part of the fear, right? Is like when you put so much out there and especially with this, with this message, it's really personal and it's, it's, uh, it's like a, you know, it's, it's something I'd say most people wouldn't want to talk about. So I think that's, that was one of the fears I think was just like, hey, I'm gonna be writing and I'm gonna be like podcasting and it's not like the most polished thing and. Um, I think that's what a lot of people struggle with too, I would say. And I still struggle with it too, is like the production value of it, or hey, do I have a good hook? Or, you know, when I'm writing, like, is, is, is this really quality stuff or people just gonna look at it and be like, you know, like this isn't really that helpful. So I think that's the fear is just this like, and I, I think that's been overcome just through like, hey, I'm, I'm doing this because I'm passionate about it. And, and I think just learning too that you're gonna improve over time and that, um, Consistency is like really, like, I think that's what a lot of people talk about. I know you, you two talk about it's just being consistent.

Yeah.

Is, is huge, like in anything in life. But yeah, the fear would just be like, you're putting your heart and soul out something and then, you know, like it's like, like just like a few people are like listening or, or watching, um, or reading, uh, to where, yeah, 'cause it's like I was putting a lot of, I still put like a lot of time into it, right? Into, into this. And, uh, just wanna, I think for me, like, my goal is just to have like a platform to have a voice and to get that out as to, to many, as many people as I can. So I think that's always like a fear is it's like, will this message get out to a lot of people? But then you realize if it just gets out to one person, like I was talking about my friend, or, you know, like my little brother, or, you know, people that I see some familiar names in the chat, you know, things like that. Like you gotta hold onto that and you have to realize like that, that's what it's about ultimately. If you just impact like one person's life, like that's, it's pretty cool.

Yeah. And, and also like to that point, like I know having hearts and likes and people commenting is like, it is nice and it feels good, but often like to the subject that you're writing, Um, you are probably impacting a lot of people, but they don't have the courage yet to go back and say like, hey, I'm in this situation and I read— maybe like in a couple of years, like our subject is very different, like what we write about, but we are often talking about like calling and like building a business or like taking action towards your calling. And there's a lot of shame around that, right? Because sometimes people like, they have been holding something in their hearts for like 10 years. And they're like, what is it? Like, am I incapable? Like, is this wrong? There's like, and nobody says anything. And sometimes like after like one year, they're like, hey, I've been reading your stuff for a year now. And, you know, I'm just grateful because now I decided to do this or even without, like, I already started something because I read something that inspired. So like, that's, that's the whole work in this domain in a way that you keep showing up. Because it's your passion, not receiving it back at first, but then eventually like it opens the gate and like, oh yes, like people, even like on the first writing, on the first podcast, probably there are people there that like they got something from it and maybe you will never know about it. Right. But it doesn't mean that you are not in service. So if, um, I have a question for you, like if, what is the, if you were to tell someone that is in the situation of like, hey, I, I wanna, you know, be sober out of the, it could be any addiction, it could be porn, but like, what is the first thing? Is it like, do you do it alone? Do you ask for help? Like, can you just make the decision yourself? Like, you know, this, the beginning of the process when you realize that that habit, it's not adding to your life.

Hmm. Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, I'm just a, I think connection and community is like the antidote in a lot of ways, I think. Is, uh, that's what I always just tell people, right? And if that could be coaching through me, you know, getting in a group, talking to a friend, um, you know, if you're, if you're of faith, you know, talking to someone there that's like in a leadership role. I mean, just, I think that's like the first step really, is you have to be able to like loop somebody in and talk about it. Because I think, um, you know, with porn, it's like I I didn't really, maybe I underestimated like how much of an effect it had on my life. Right. And then once you start talking to other people and sharing, and then maybe they struggle too, or they had struggled before, it really opens up the world to where you don't feel like you're alone anymore. And you get to get feedback from people that, you know, maybe they're, they're sober for how many years, or, um, they, they struggled with it before, but this is what they did. And you start to like learn, I think, just different things and it, I think it's a little bit different for everybody, you know, in their own journey. Uh, but yeah, I'd say like, that'd be like my first thing off the bat is just to connect with somebody else. Uh, typically you'd want to connect with somebody that's maybe a little bit ahead of you. Um, but I mean, just being able to talk about it, you know, 'cause I think when you're a kid, you don't want to talk about it. You know, you think you're gonna get in trouble. Um, I didn't really have much of those conversations too much with my parents. Um, and I think like looking back, it would've been nice, you know, if there would've been some more guidance there. But at the same time, I don't really know if they truly knew like what the extent was just because I think, you know, I was born in '91, so I grew up still like where it was like the, the internet would have to like make all those weird noises and, um, all that stuff. So I think that was like kind of like right when the internet, I, I still remember in our house when they're like, hey, we have internet now. Like, I still remember that, which was kind of weird. Maybe for younger people in the audience, they're like, that's, that's crazy. But I still remember that where it was like, uh, hey, we have internet now, right? And then of course, hey, there's internet. Well, you know, now how do I find like where the porn is, you know? But they didn't grow up in that time, right? Because they didn't really have the internet. So it's kind of like one of those things to where, um, if you can find someone and talk to someone that can relate, you know, and that can provide some of that guidance Uh, that just opens up the door cuz then you start thinking about it. I know for me, um, what I did personally, like when, um, I was talking about that time when I was early in my marriage, I just started to like kind of just Google like, you know, what are some like porn-free quitting porn, I guess, started to do that. So I let, at least on my end, um, I, I really like podcasts. Like I grew up kind of on audiobooks. So like when we were kids, we used to like listen to audiobooks and stuff. So I think for me, like, that was a, a, a good place to go was just like listen to someone talk about it. And that's where I started listening to this Porn Free Radio podcast, which was really cool. I actually, uh, I interviewed him, episode 50 was the guy. So it was like a really cool moment, really good episode by the way. Um, but, uh, that kind of got me connected. And then once I started to listen to what he had to say, he is like, yeah, you know, like maybe, you know, talk to a therapist or something. So then I, I got a Christian therapist. And I started to talk to my therapist. Then I got involved with Bible study. And so it was like, it, it started to like snowball, right? Where I remember one time I was coaching this guy and it was, um, we ended up ending coaching cuz I think he like, he ended up getting like 3 or 4 different resources, right? And I was like, well, that's cool. You know, like you're, you're loading it up. And sometimes you gotta do that if you have this thing that you've been struggling with for like, decade or two. Yeah, you gotta like put some rocket fuel in there and really attack it. And I think you can do that by getting different perspectives and working with different people.

So how many episodes of your podcast have you actually done to date?

Okay, I'm going to think, I always mess it up, but I think I'm at, I'm going to look that up really quick. I'm at, I think I'm at episode 50. 50, I think.

59.

Yep.

Yeah. So episode 60, I'm recording that. I should be recording that on Friday. Cool.

Yeah. And then the reason I asked that, and I would love to hear maybe even more about the story behind kind of connecting with this other creator who seems like they had a very meaningful impact on you. You know, I think this is a big area that we see our clients struggle with is how to create meaningful, authentic connections online as they want to get out there and share their message. And so I've encountered you here on Substack. You're very friendly. I feel like you're a what I see is what you get kind of guy. I felt a really strong connection, like you're here doing really good work. And I'm just curious how you approach that and what advice might you have to someone who's trying to share more of what they have to offer? Maybe they'd like to get into connection with other people and do interviews and things like you've, you've been doing, you know, what, what sort of advice might you have for, for that person?

Yeah. Um, I think for me, I started to see people on Substack that, I mean, not maybe if they weren't even talking about like porn, but, you know, I read their writings and I see it, they have a really cool perspective on something. Like I, I remember, I think it was one of the first podcast that I did with another person on Substack was with Reverend Robert Irvine, and he's over in the UK. He's a pastor, and I think he reached out to me actually and wanted to do like a collaboration on an article. And that's, I think that's a good gateway is to do like a collaborative article with somebody to like, I think what we did was we had like a Google Doc and we kind of just wrote in different things that we were gonna talk about, cuz I think he wanted to talk about porn. I think he saw like my work, so I think he reached out to me and, and I think when we were working together, I'm like, hey, I'd love to have you on like the podcast to like talk about it. So I've found that a lot of that happens is like when you're collaborating on some writing. I mean, a lot of it's just messaging people. I mean, what's the worst somebody can say is just to say no, you know, I'm not interested, which has happened to me before. And that's fine. You just gotta be like, okay, cool. But, um, you know, that's kind of how it started. I think my first like guest podcast, I think I, I think the first guest one I did was with my little brother, which was cool. It was in person, so that was really cool to do that. And then, um, there's a professor that I met over on Twitter who's a film professor and a philosophy professor. So we've done a ton of podcasts together. So those are like people I kind of got to know. I mean, my little brother obviously, but then this professor, like, I knew him over on Twitter, and it was really just— I think I started just to come up with ideas of, okay, like, you're a film professor, philosophy professor, like, how does that weave into my topic? You know, how can we do that? We've done two Halloween specials already where the first one we talked about the mythology of a vampire, and then the second one that we did, I actually met him in person in Arkansas, which was really cool. We did a recording together, and that was discussing the film Psycho and like what, how Hitchcock kind of saw ahead of like where society was going and like weaving that into the topic. So it's like kind of like whatever topic you are interested in or what you're writing about. Yeah, I think it's just seeing other people that might have similar interests or maybe an interest that interweaves with yours. I think that's what I've found. 'Cause you'd be like, okay, porn, like that's, you know, pretty niche, but Also, I mean, you can talk about, I mean, I had someone on before, Tim Ebel, he does like about food addiction. So we talked about that. I know Sue Reed's in the chat. We talked about confidence and like my story with that. Will Anselm's in the chat. He's a medieval art historian. We talked about beauty. That was one of our most recent podcasts. That was a great one. And so it's kind of like weaving in just different topics into, hey, like what I'm passionate about, but I think with porn, it's like you can take so many different angles. I know Christopher Lind, he's an AI specialist, so we talked about AI, like how does the role of AI like integrate with this, like what, what, what's coming ahead. So it's been really cool. I think that's the thing I've loved about Substack the most is just like talking to people like you. Um, just there's so many interesting, smart people, and I think like the environment here is a lot more like welcoming and like people just want to talk and like It's so much more like laid back than with your on Twitter. It's like the knives are out and you pick one thing, like it doesn't matter what you say, someone's always gonna like say, well, you missed that. Or, you know, you're just like, oh my gosh, it's like the most nitpicky thing ever. So hopefully that's helpful, but I, I would just say like, um, another thing you can do too is like when people post articles and they post notes, like just interact with them, like start to build a relationship. Um, because I think people like that. Like if somebody, like, I'm definitely gonna be more keen, like if somebody is like post or commenting on my, my post, or if they're liking something or if they restack it and then they reach out to me and they say, hey, would you like, want to come on my podcast? Like, yeah, because you know, you're interacting with my stuff and I feel like you, you kind of know who, a little bit about who I am. I know a little bit about you. Uh, that's typically like how I do podcasts is if I, gets a sense about somebody that, hey, I think this would be a really interesting conversation. And also like, I want to be able to be a platform to help other people. And that's kind of what I do in my newsletter. You know, I'll put people's articles within my newsletter. That's another thing you could do is if you have like a weekly newsletter, reach out to someone and say, hey, I'd love to have your article like in my newsletter. Because then, you know, you tag them in your work, you can recommend their, their publications. So it's, it's kind of like a mutual, mutual benefit, right? Like, and then I've had podcasts where I, they jump on my podcast and then I'll jump on their podcast. So it's, it's really cool. It's fun. Now, if you asked me a few years ago, like if I'd be doing this, I'd be like, what are you talking about? But now it's like, I look forward to it, right? Like it's, it just keeps me going. And I think for me, like with my recovery, it helps me with my recovery personally too. Because I think, especially like if you're teaching somebody something or if you're sharing stuff about yourself, I think that calls you to elevate, um, how you live your life. Or because I don't want to be talking about something if I'm not like living into it. Um, so that's just another helpful thing, at least just with my areas. It helps me be a better person too.

Yeah, I love how you got to be creative and, and kind of like relate porn to every single angle in a way, right? And, and I think that's the, the challenge of being, um, like turning your, your challenges or like turning your calling into like a business in a way. It's how do I talk about this from different perspectives? Like, because it's so unique, right? Like it's different from like if you have something that, well, and I'm not diminishing that in any way, but if you follow like university degree, like I have like business management and then you have a career and then you have kind of like this path in a way. Um, But then when you're building something that's like uniquely yours, you need to be creative enough to talk about that in many different ways. So it's, uh, I just love the way you were like, and I talk with about AI and then this pastor over here and then this other person over here. And then, you know, like all of the aspects, um, it's fascinating. I love that. And it feels genuine, right? And authentic. Like that's what I was feeling as you're sharing, like all the connection that you were making, like there is a mutual interest and it, like, it's a feel-good connection. It's not forcing, right? And at the end of the day, it works to grow your business and to grow your Substack, but it's not about forcing anything.

Yeah, it feels like you're really following your curiosity, uh, and you're weaving that in with, with your topic, which is, is very cool to see. And yeah, it probably, my guess, if it's anything like the way I experience it, it's part of what allows you to show up consistently. And keep going because there is this natural intersection between your interests and the things that you want to explore, the types of conversations you want to be having, the people you enjoy spending time with, and your ability to be of service and share that message. So it seems to me, and yeah, correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me you found a very nice way to kind of pull all those threads together.

Yeah, and it's a continuous process, right? Like, it's like every month or so there'll be like a new person that like I haven't didn't get to know before, and now I'm talking with them, and it's, it's cool. And that's like the confidence I have, is that if I keep doing this, I'll keep connecting with more and more people, um, and I'm gonna be able to start, you know, to continue that on of having interesting guests come onto the show, uh, and be able just to, gosh, hit it from different angles. Because I was just gonna say, like, porn really is like infiltrated so many aspects of life. So it's in my way, I'm kind of like trying to be like a gardener of like pulling the weeds out and being like, hey, like let's talk AI, like AI porn, not good. Let's pull that weed out. You know, things like that. Like, um, uh, because that's like what I've noticed in life. And as like this world just keeps like, everything is so integrated and, um, uh, commodified, almost algorithmic to where like I'd like to do my part at least getting out the word on the opposite side of the argument, you know, and, and share that with people. And, and, and again, it's just like being the gardener, right? It's just pulling out a weed and then putting the seed down, making so sure the soil's right, you know, get some water in there and just to take care of it and nurture it. I think the more people that do that, um, with whatever their passions are, you know, I, I think. That helps build a pretty good ecosystem of stuff. You know, it's, that's what I loved about, love about Substack. There's so many smart people on here that have, I think, a good intent that are sharing some really good things, you know, with the world. And it's just, I'm just trying to be a part of that, you know, in my corner.

Yeah, it's beautiful. And, and yeah, if there's anyone watching that has any questions for Mac, please feel free to drop them in. In the chat. But in the meantime, Mac, you know, like, because this is We Are Sacred Business, one of the questions I love to ask, and actually you've shared a lot of gems and a lot of really good advice around how you're building your publication, but just, you know, can you think of anything else, you know, that you've done that's sort of practical or tactical that you feel is working really well right now to help you kind of grow your business in a way that you'd like to? Maybe something unexpected, you know, that, you know, that maybe you haven't talked about. And if, if not, it's cool. But yeah, I always love to ask that question to see if we could leave folks with something useful in that regard.

Yeah, I think like what, what really helped me, because I think when I first started, it was almost like I was like really, I don't know even if I would say like overdoing it, but like I was like writing like a lot every week. And then I kind of came to learn, you know, as I started to travel with the RV and do different trips, like that got really stressful for me cuz I kind of made this like self-imposed like thing of like, hey, you gotta like write like 4 times, like make 4 posts a week or whatever. I mean, a big change for me with Substack was just like utilizing notes more for sure. I mean, I think notes is kind of how you grow. Unfortunately, I think sometimes like you post something, right? And you think that you're going to get all these subscribers from reading your amazing, you know, groundbreaking article. And sometimes, you know, your hopes get up and then you're, you know, you don't quite get that back. So I think it's kind of just like, for me, it's like figuring out how Substack works a little bit better. I think the notes is like a great way for people to get to know you and just have like a quick thought out there. I mean, that's like really where a lot of my growth came from. Like I, and you never know what's going to happen. I posted this one note that was, it was like some like Duncan Trussell quote that he's like a comedian. It was something about like somebody's like out probably in the Amazon, you know, at a lake or a pond and they have like no care in the world. Like they're not stressed about anything. And that like blew up and I think I got like, it was like 90 subscribers from that post.

Were anacondas involved?

Yeah. And it was just something to where like, I just, you know, I was like, okay, like that's, that's a cool quote. And I think one time I, I posted this video that I actually got from our recovery group. It was some like old, like, um, it was some kind of like old, like jewelry ad. And it's about the guy, guys being in the doghouse. And it's like really actually a pretty funny thing, but it's all these guys that get, go to the doghouse and they're all sharing like why they went to the doghouse. And then one guy ends up getting his like wife like a ring or something. But the, the, it was a funny thing. and I tried to weave it into, you know, like my topic, right? And that blew up. So it's kind of like you never really expect, like, it's hard to really gauge like what is gonna like give you that, that growth. But I, you know, like we were talking about earlier, I think the thing that I figured out was, well, let's be consistent, you know, like let me do like my weekly newsletter, the Break Free newsletter every Monday. And I've been really good at that. I had a little bit of a spurt a couple months ago where I was, I just had a lot going on in life and then. It was just tough, but I think just finding something consistent that's manageable is a good way to start. Um, and then once you start getting like that muscle memory down and it gets a little bit easier to like get your thoughts down and to get them out there, um, I think that to me has been a nice key to where if I'm growing, like, 'cause I, it's like right now I'm in a stage where I, I, I'm not like growing like super crazy, but I'm not really that worried about it. I'm not that mad about it because like right now, like doing stuff with work, you know, outside of Substack. So I'm just trying to like balance things, but I know that like when I want to put like, turn the engines on and maybe get a little bit more aggressive, like I can, like when that time comes, I think I'll be ready for it. But I think it's just finding something you can do consistently. And then really for growth, I mean, it's just collaboration, connecting, you know, finding your tribe. you know, people that, um, you know, like your work and you like their work, uh, finding ways to collaborate. Because I think when you can have like your voices together and to share your audiences, I think that also helps just get your name out to, to people that, that don't quite know who you are, that kind of thing.

Mm-hmm. Cool.

Yeah.

Well, thank you. I know we're kind of coming up on time here and, um, yeah, I've just really loved hearing more of your story. I know we've connected a bit, but got to go a little bit deeper into it today. You know, if anyone is listening now or we have a lot of people that catch these on the replay. If they hear something in your story that lands for them and they'd like to explore your work a bit deeper, what would be a good first step? Is there any particular resource or post that makes most sense? Is it just to subscribe? What would you suggest to anyone checking this out?

Yeah, if they subscribe, every Monday I'm writing something, trying to talk about different perspectives. On this topic. Um, if you check out my about page, uh, I do personal coaching too. Uh, so how that works is, you know, you message me, I'll set up some Zoom time completely free, you know, just to call this to figure out, uh, you know, what you're looking, you know, like what you're looking to do, uh, what you need help with, you know, what you struggle with the most. So I do, do like one-on-one coaching there. Um, also another thing that I have is I've got a partnership with Ever Accountable. And that's an accountability software that I use. It's really good. I'm actually, that's my next podcast I'm doing on Fridays. I'm doing a second interview with the CEO of that company. Uh, really cool guy, but he's going to be talking about new enhancements that they've used, which is really cool. They actually can do in-app filtering and flagging. So it can work within whatever app that you use. So like YouTube or Substack or X, it'll actually flag your screen. I was watching the UFC fight with my dad. Like a month ago and it kept flagging the screen. It was like potential sexual content. It was like two guys like punching each other with their shirts off and it's like, it's like, get that off the screen. Um, and I was like, well, that's, that's pretty impressive. Uh, but I feel like, yeah, I have a 20%, uh, discount on that. So that's on my about page as well. I mean, that's like for if someone's struggling to personally, or like if you have a family and you want to put that on your kids' phones. Really good company and they're continuing to update things and I think they might be one of the only companies that has in-app filtering and flagging. But yeah, I'd just say check out my newsletter and then I have kind of carved out a new section that's called Reflections. That's just more like not a part of the newsletter, but just reflections that I have that come up. And then I do try to at least do one poem a month. Uh, I call it porn-free poetry. So, um, those can be ones that are, yeah, sometimes they're kind of dark, like sharing like the darkness of it. Um, and then other times, yeah, they're, they're quite light. So there's different things that I try to do, I think, just to get people thinking about it in different ways.

Uh, cool.

So yeah, I think there's a lot out there. And then I've got the podcast as well, which, um, typically it's about every other week. I've been trying to do more like every week. Uh, but I mean, I've got a ton of different topics in there. I'd say that episode 50 that I did with Matt Dobbschutz, Porn Free Radio, that's a great one cuz this guy is like one of the OG guys in like the porn-free space. Uh, and he's fantastic and he has a lot of good things to say. Um, we had some funny moments too that are pretty good as well. So yeah, I think there's a lot in there for different topics. You know, pick your topic, pick what you're thinking about. I probably have it in my, in my Substack somewhere.

Cool. Yeah, thanks so much. And if anyone kind of was tuning in late, we've been having this conversation with Mac. He's the writer behind Porn-Free Millennial here on Substack. And yeah, he's exploring topics like recovery identity and sharing encouragement with people who are kind of going through that journey themselves. So yeah, thank you again for your time, Mac, and being here. We, you know, we'll make sure we get all the right relevant links into our recap. We do a recap at the end of everyone of these interviews, we'll share it with you in case it's helpful to share with your folks and, uh, yeah, make sure the word gets out for this important work that you're doing. So yeah, really appreciate you being here with us.

Yeah, appreciate your time. Thank you so much.

Yes, thank you. You, it was nice to, to have this conversation with you and connect again. And thank you everyone from, for watching us.

All right. Have a great day. Take care, Matt.

Thank you.

Bye. Bye.