109: Margie and Elena - On The Mindset of Innovation

Hey everybody, and welcome to This Moved Me, a podcast about creating talks that move the world. With me, your host, Sally Koering Zimney. Together with some fabulous guests, we will have a casual conversation about the art of public speaking, because a good talk can move the world and it'll be fun. Yeah, I would think making alien cows those meaningful. That's not a small task.

I love your giggle. Wow. Oh my gosh, just waiting for everybody to figure out the alphabet.

Hey movers, it's Sally, and I have kind of a special episode for you today. Normally, as you know, it's just me sitting in front of a computer with a microphone having what I hope is a really fun and insightful and oftentimes intimate conversation. With people who I can't see, but who are out there in the world somewhere. But today I am bringing you a conversation with two women who I so appreciate and I love to see and hang out with, and I thought, hey, let's put ourselves all in the same room. So they very kindly invited me to their space at the Brave New Workshop. And before I jump into these two women and what they bring to this conversation, I want to make sure you understand their context of the Brave New Workshop, because if you're not familiar The Brave New Workshop is the world's longest-running improv comedy theater, and it's here in Minneapolis. They do tons of incredible work. They put on lots of improv comedy shows, and that, that's one arm of the Brave New Workshop, but the other arm is what we're going to be talking about today, and that is their work as trainers and speakers and their belief in the innovation mindset and how we can take the practices of improv and and use them more in our lives as professionals, as people, and for the context of today, as speakers and communicators and movers. And the two women who are gonna be telling us all about that today are Margie Simmons and Elena Imoretska, two fabulous women, both incredibly talented and very different in their backgrounds and how they got to this work, but both bringing so much insight and thoughtfulness courage to this conversation about how we can be in our own voice, we can step out, we can take a risk, and we can do the work that we are here to do. So without further ado, Margie and Elena.

All the vegetables we're looking forward to this summer. Fresh tomatoes.

Yes. Uh, I'm a big fan of cucumbers.

Chives.

Kohlrabi.

Oh yes, I'm a big fan of kohlrabi as well. Fresh lettuce.

Oh my goodness, basil.

Strawberries. Not a vegetable, but still delicious, and I'm looking forward to it.

Green beans. Come on.

Hello, broccoli.

Oh my goodness.

I'm gonna keep this. That's my favorite thing about doing this is like the pre-conversations are always—

Oh, come on.

Yes. When nobody thinks they're being recorded, I get the best stuff.

Oh, yes.

And then they're like, are we going to say it? We are!

The party is going! La la.

Yeah, that's actually how I just recently heard Candid Camera, how it started. It started as a radio show.

I heard that too.

Yes. I think it was on Radiolab, maybe. Yes. But yeah, it started as a radio show and it was a guy who was doing a radio show for the troops and it was supposed to be a show where just regular people from the army or whatever are sharing their problems. And what he found is that once he pressed recording and they knew they were recorded, they just seized up and they just couldn't do it. So he started just saying, okay, I'm just testing now. We're not recording. And then does the whole interview and then they ask, so are we on? And they say, oh, we're done.

We're done.

Did he ever get punched out?

Like, "Oh damn it, I wasn't ready!" Right, or now if like in the legal mindset of CYA and I don't know, I don't know, people might have issues with that, but they might be really relieved.

Yeah, they're done, and then it's like, "Oh, you got me," right? And it feels so good. Yeah, yeah.

Well, one of the things that I'm excited about talking with you guys about today is I was just doing some work about mindset, like the kind of mindset we need to put ourselves out there.

Yes.

So I can't wait to dig into that because I feel like in the conversations that we've had, the three of us together before, it's come up a lot. Like, how do we find our voices? How do we, you know, have the confidence that we need to put ourselves out there, to fail, to all that stuff that you guys— that is just second nature as improvisers and as business leaders who are all about innovation, it's really mindset is a huge piece.

Yes.

So we're going to dig into that.

We'll talk about it.

Let's do it.

But first, I want to kind of set the stage and do some kind of foundational story pieces. Okay, I've got Margie and Elena, the two, the duo, the dynamic duo. I love you guys, but I want to hear from both of you because you have very different journeys to this shared space that you have together. So let's hear about kind of how, what are the highlights in terms of what got you into the space where you're talking about improv and innovation and how we stand up and share who we are.

Wonderful. I love it.

Yes, would you like to begin?

I would love to begin. Yes, and. Yes. Yeah, we are so happy to be here with you as well, Sally. This is just so much fun. We're not at a restaurant eating salads, but we're having cocktails, so it feels right. Imaginary cocktails.

Uh, so I'm having a martini. Imagine the cocktails.

A Manhattan is, uh, yeah, I've already downed one. It's been a rough, rough morning. Um, and we're so happy to have you in our space as well. Uh, I am— my name is Margie Simmons, and, uh, I'm the director of applied improvisation here. And my journey started as an actor like you. We, I think we have a lot of similarities there on that journey, and studied it and have a degree in it and lived in Los Angeles for a while. And then I also was a sketch writer and performer here at the Brave New Workshop and studied improvisation for many years. And a few years ago, I got a call out in Los Angeles from John Sweeney, who owns the workshop, and needed, wanted some assistance, some help, some partnership in helping him with the innovation speeches and trainings that he does. And so I started doing that, and then it grew from there. And from there, we started to build a women's product as well that can help women to find their authentic voice and to be more confident and authentic. And I moved back here, and it's been full speed ahead doing many different types of trainings. So not only women, but mostly for people that work for corporations that need need help with their mindset, help them to be more innovative or collaborative or grow as leaders. So that's really where my focus is.

Beautiful.

Well, my perspective is a little bit different. So I am not a performer, um, trade-wise or education-wise, but I've always had a love of the arts and of performance. So, um, I have been dancing all my life, so I started 4th grade and then continued to do that on the side. And when I was in grad school, actually getting my business degree, I discovered this really interesting demand for creative outlets that I saw in my fellow students. And so a friend of mine, um, and I, we started this just student club, which was all around movement and dance. And we saw these amazing, really busy, really ambitious um, business students dedicating a lot of their time to come and explore movement and dance and then participate in these productions. And I was just struck by that and how they really needed that creativity and that ability to stretch somewhere and try some new things and grow. And based on that, I started thinking about my career, when I wanted to go after I graduated. And I really wanted to explore this intersection of the arts and business and what can we learn from each and how can help each other from those two different fields. And I heard about the Brave New Workshop and the work that they were doing in terms of bridging improvisation to the business world. And I thought, wow, that is fantastic. That's exactly what I would like to explore. And while I was still in school, I invited the workshop to come and present one of their workshops, training sessions, and it was part of an innovation conference. So it was very much in the context of of innovation. And, um, and I was blown away by the impact that this session had on my fellow students and faculty. And so after that, I just jumped in and contacted the president of the organization at the time and said, hey, I'm graduating, I loved what you did, I love what you do, I would love to be part of that journey. And so she said, great, come to Minneapolis for the summer, let's see if it's a fit. And so I moved. So I was in school in Arizona. I had never honestly considered Minneapolis. I had no idea really where it was.

It'll be different.

What?

Just different.

I didn't know what it was.

What is Minneapolis?

Metropoli? What? So I packed up my car and drove out here, and of course it was summer, it was gorgeous, and fortunately—

That's how we sneak you, you know? We lure people in the summer like, this place is magic land, and then we just Kill you over the winter. I'm stuck here now.

Exactly. Fortunately, I do love winter and I, you know, I've grown up with winter, so I know, I know. So, and I love the seasons, but anyways. Yeah. And fortunately it was a fit, right? So the workshop is a wonderful culture, but it's small and it's very unique. So there has to be a fit, of course, like any organization. And it was, and I've loved it. And so what we've been able to really do in the past, 8 years that I've been here is really go from, okay, we, we know a lot about improv and we know a lot about, um, how people behave in this environment when they have to create something out of nothing. And we've been really able to extrapolate what is the mindset, you know? So what is the mindset that we need in order to be successful in that? Because again, I come from a non-performer background. So my point of view is always, how are our customers who are not performers, they're business people, um, how are they able to benefit from our work? And improv is wonderful, but not very many people care about improv per se, right? But many people care about their state of being, how they're feeling. Are they able to be their best selves? And, um, one of the turning points in our thinking was Think about improv. So when you think about improv, it should be the easiest thing in the world because you don't have to prepare for it per se. You don't have a director, you don't have a boss. You just have a wonderful team of collaborators and you create something together based on a suggestion, some insight from, from your customer, from your audience. But all you need to do is be present and listening and creating ideas and building on the ideas of others. So really it should be quite easy, but it is not. It is not. And that's, and that's what we hear from our clients and from our students. And it's not because of our mindset and because of this internal critic or this voice that convinces us sometimes that maybe we're not enough, or maybe we don't have everything we need, or maybe we will fail or whatever it is. And unfortunately we have only so much attention. We have only so much time and energy. And if we're focusing on any of this, um, negative self-talk or voice or whatever you want to call it, we're not spending 100% on the productive things which help us get things done, which help us innovate and come up with ideas and solutions and move forward towards whatever goal we have. And so that's where we really got very excited about helping people move from a mindset that perhaps is not the most productive one— we call it the mindset of fear, but it could be a mindset of whatever you're dealing with, to a mindset of discovery, that place where you are 100% there and 100% moving forward. Um, and that's what we try to do. That's what we have dedicated our careers to doing, is developing experiences for people who— that help them practice being in that productive space, that help them increase their self-awareness and understanding that mindset is something you can control, right? Although it's hard, but you can, and you can do it, and you can build an intentional practice that helps you spend more time in the mindset that serves you and serves those around you.

Yes, well said. Well said. Thank you.

So walk all of us through this connection to— you mentioned, um, working with women in particular and wanting to help them find their voice, and I know that's not all you do, but obviously The process of standing up in front of people, especially without a net, right? There's no script. There's, you know, there's a level of vulnerability there that really forces you to a place where you, you show up or you fall on your face. And so walk me through what you have kind of boiled things down to. What's the— what are the key nuggets? For, you know, showing up and the mindset that we need in order to do that? That was a really like wobbly—

yes—

question, but there, there's so many things connected to this. It's vulnerability and it's courage and it's trusting yourself and trusting people around you, and it's also skill and learning how you build a story and build conflict and, oh my gosh, there's so much.

Mm-hmm.

So let's dial it back to the mindset that helps us take a risk. How about that?

Well, what we've found is that we just started asking, what does it look like when you are in your best place, when you are being able to move forward and confident?

Mm-hmm.

What are those behaviors that you're using when you're there? What we found is that 5 behaviors started to rise to the top. We really focus on listening. We focus on deferring judgment, and that deferring judgment usually begins with our own ideas first. It's a lot easier to defer judgment of someone else's ideas. It seems that we're so often caught in our head before we even have the courage to put that idea out there that we negate it or throw it on the floor. It's not good enough. We practice reframing. Found that that behavior really became handy for us of finding that usefulness or that positive turnaround in whatever comes our way. Not necessarily that it's good or bad, but what can we use in that. We practice declaring, especially with women, knowing that our ideas are needed and need to come to the table, and then we practice jumping in, which helps us to avoid that analysis paralysis, that thinking too much, being caught in the research mode that we've heard about, so being stuck there and not being able to move forward. So really in a session with us, those are behaviors that we are focusing on. We do that in an experiential way where you are up on your feet practicing those behaviors. It's a lot different than reading a book about learning about something. It's you're experiencing it, and there are a lot of aha moments that happen when you're, you know, You got to put your feet to the floor and get up and do something. So that's, you know, really what we focus on in our trainings. And the favorite part of the work that I do is to watch people to feel vulnerable but have the courage to practice something that makes them a little bit uncomfortable and then do it and then find success in that. Those are my favorite days.

Yeah, I think the tricky part about mindset is that oftentimes it's subconscious and it's very automatic. And when we talk about mindset and kind of how do you put yourself out there and what do you need for that, there are two ways you can approach it. Number one is literally increase your self-awareness and examine, okay, what are some of these attitudes? What are some of my maybe internal biases that I have? And do some work with that and then be able to, if you catch yourself in unproductive space, switch your lens, literally switch your lens. Or the other way to work on mindset is what Margie was talking about. And that, that's been our approach for 55+ years is to focus on the behaviors. And when you are doing certain things, you really can't be in an unproductive mindset. If I'm truly listening and present and picking up on all the cues, not just the words, but also the body language and the emotional intelligence, all that, I really can be very worried about other things because I'm there. Um, and so that's why we've picked this, this way to help people spend more time in a productive mindset by practicing and making certain behaviors very habitual. But there's another big shift in, um, in how you view the world. And we recommend, and that's very important, especially for, for being in front of people and speaking, and that's fostering an attitude of service. If you are of service, you again, can't be worried about other things. And so all the fears or, um, maybe unproductive thoughts or whatever that melts away, because it's not about you anymore. It's about your audience and what you're bringing to that audience. It's about viewing yourself as, um, a valuable and, um, wonderful resource for them. You know, you are there for a reason and you hold this knowledge or ideas or whatever it is, trying to accomplish. And that is a very powerful, although very simple, but it's a powerful trick. And I've actually used it many times. And Margie, I bet you have too, but I'm not as experienced of a keynote speaker or presenter as, as Margie or other people on our team. But recently I've been doing a little bit more of public speaking because of the new book we published. And I use this trick all the time.

Yeah.

And that, that it's fantastic.

It's huge.

Yeah.

So funny that you said that because just this This morning I was recording some mini episodes about mindset, and one of the mindset shifts I said is it's about them. It's not about you, it's about them. And so if you can keep putting them in the forefront of your mind, it takes really the pressure off. Be like, they don't really— they're not here for you, they're here for them. And so if you can be of service to them and see yourself as the conduit, the You're bringing the message, the stories, the meaning, the gift.

It's not about you.

You're giving them a gift.

Yeah.

So when you give a gift to someone, it's not about you any longer. And that, you know, there's an added benefit to that is that it quiets that inner self-judgment, that self-talk that can be so damaging to all of us and paralyzing even, and can help us, you know, keep us from getting anything done.

Right.

I love, you know, about the mindset when Elena was talking It just reminded me again of the other thing I love about this work is that it is a practice and you can choose it in every moment. So we can get out of that. I don't know about you, but I maybe have a little Catholic Irish guilt to things, you know, all of our past, the things that we have of that wasn't good enough, it wasn't perfect. I also have a perfectionism problem. So I got a lot that I'm working with. We can unpack this luggage if you want, but maybe we should leave it here. How many hours is this podcast? 6, 7, pour me another drink. Um, but you know, this— and so instead of getting caught in the 'I didn't do well in that moment,' I, you know, and, and really breaking that open and pushing ourselves down, our mindset— and when we have that, we just have— we have the next moment to choose of 'I can do better,' get back into that place of service, get in the moment. I can listen better. In the next moment. So that helps me from quieting all of the things that I deal with.

Well, and one of the beautiful things— and Margie, obviously I am not an improviser, which is the practice of doing all of these things, of course, over and over and over again. And the thing that I always think is so cool about improv is the, the reset button is set over and over and over and over again. And that's really true for all of us, but there you're given another chance. It's sort of like start over, oh, start over, start over again and again and again. And that's, that is such a gift. And I think that's why improvisers, uh, they have to learn these things, otherwise it really doesn't work. Um, and not that they're always good at it, but, but that's, that's the way improv works. And so it's such a powerful experience to have for for any performer to have a background in improv. So what I love, Margie, is to hear a little from you about how you lived these things as a performer and, you know, what the bringing all that experience in, in your training now I think is so powerful. So is there a moment that stands out to you where you like didn't have the mindset that you needed when you walked into it, or where you felt a shift happen where you were you're like, "Oh, okay, I see now how it works when I think this way instead of this." Yes, I think being a keynote speaker and a facilitator and a trainer is very different than being a performer.

Yeah.

A few things that really helped me was I was surrounded by people that knew or believed that I could do it even before I did, which that's pretty vulnerable to admit. But I had champions that really were like, "Oh, you need to do this." You will be great at this. And so that put me in a place of, okay, I can take another step forward. The second thing I think that really helped me was I was ready for feedback and open to hearing it and then created that team, that coach that could give me that. And so Elena is that person for me, especially when we were just— Elena was so smart in the way she grew me as a Speaker, uh, you know, we were doing gigs for 4 people in a basement and up to 200. You remember that one? And up to, you know, up to 200, you know, educators or whatever it was at that point. But she groomed me in that way, which got me really just to immerse myself in that place of learning and curiosity. And then I believe that fear is a wonderful motivator. Uh, if push comes to shove, 7 o'clock is gonna come on Thursday and you'll be standing in front of 175 people.

Right.

So I do believe you should do everything you can before 7 o'clock on that Thursday to make sure that you're delivering the clearest and best message that you can. And then know that something will be different. And so you can prepare all you want, but we've all been in the situations, well then what if the PowerPoint doesn't work? So that's really where I think the improvisation chops, and all of my skills and beliefs and learnings there help me in those situations to be nimble and to realize that it's going to be okay and that I still have a message to deliver and I don't need PowerPoint to do it. If I continue to just bring myself to the table, it's enough, and serve the people that I'm there to serve. And so it really is that constant mindset practice for myself as well. I set an intention for myself before I ever I begin to speak to people, before every time I get up in front of more than one person. And that helps me again to quiet that self-judgment because if I'm just focusing on my one intention, I don't have the extra bandwidth to be nervous or spin or do all those things that we do.

Yeah.

And Elena can probably talk more about that from what my brain is doing, but it really does help to calm me down.

So how about for you, Elena, when, as somebody who you've taught these behaviors and practices for a long time, how do they manifest themselves for you when you are out there training and speaking?

Yes, um, I have an interesting story actually, which is very fresh in my mind. So I mentioned that we wrote the book, so the owner of Brave New Workshop, John Sweeney, and I co-authored the book, and it came out last fall. The interesting part of the story is that we got the book deal, um, 3 weeks after I gave birth to my first child. And so I got a call from John saying, hey, I know you're on maternity leave and you don't have to be part of this project, but we got the book deal and would love for you to be part of, of the team. And of course I wanted to be part of the team, but I also didn't I didn't want to leave my kid and, you know, come out of maternity leave. So the other wrinkle in the story is that we had 2 months to write the book.

Oh my gosh.

2 months. I was floored.

Freak me out.

Yes.

Yes. So that was my initial reaction was, oh my goodness, we have only 2 months. I have a 6-week-old, you know, at home. How are we going to do this? But I caught myself and I practiced all these 5 behaviors. I listened and I said, okay, Okay. Do I really want to be part of this? Yeah, I do. I feel very passionate about this. I defer judgment. I said, yes, we can do it. Absolutely. I, you know, if there is a team that can do it, absolutely. I reframed and I said, okay, well, we have only 2 months. Well, we will, we won't have time to really, you know, ponder a whole lot. We'll just jump in and we'll get it done. And it'll be amazing because the truth is we have been studying and practicing and doing a lot of this for so many years. So the content was there. It was just a matter of, of actually writing and verbalizing and doing some of the interviews. So we included some other perspectives in a true improv fashion, uh, some other perspectives in the book. So we did a lot of interviews with kind of leading innovative thinkers as well. And, um, I declared, so I declared to my husband, I said, yes, I will be part of this project. This is how we're going to, uh, we're going to make it work. This will be the team working on it and so on and so forth. I declared that I will not be able to project manage, uh, but I absolutely will be able to deliver in these ways. And then we just jumped in and we started and we did it. And it was wonderful. It was such a great, great experience. And it's one of the best projects that we've done. And I think it is because we all practiced all the 5 behaviors, and as we were writing and doing it, we were acting in that way. So it's, it's great. It's magical when it works that way.

Well, and when you're bringing something to life, which is creativity in any form, whether it's an improv scene or a book, or you're trying to create a talk, all of those things happen to some extent or another. But what I want to dial in on is this, and then we just started. Yes, because I feel like That's the point. We can get so lost in the preparation and hold ourselves back in some way. And I don't know if you guys read Seth Godin at all, if you're a Seth Godin fan. I'm a huge Seth Godin fan, and he's just like, ship it, just do it, get it out there. And that has been, for me, such a helpful way of thinking, helpful mindset to just start and just get it out there because it doesn't have to be it, right? You put it out there, you're going to get thoughts and feedback on it, you know, You know, like I sent an email the other day and I didn't feel great about it. At the end of the day, I was like, "I probably shouldn't have done that." And I was like, "Oh well, I did it. It's done. I can do it again." Like, in order to learn that lesson, I had to have done it. Like, yes, you have to. That's the way, that's the way we grow and learn and change. And it's such a human process. It doesn't make it easy or fun, but that idea of just starting, just step out, just do, just go.

I think there's this idea, I don't know if it's just in the United States or if it's a cultural thing, but this idea of, well, you have to be an expert to do that or to begin. And I think that that just holds us back in so many different ways. So are you a writer, Elena? I don't know how many books you've written before this book, but when she she puts her— starts typing, right? She then is a writer. And I don't— I, you know, I always use an example of me learning how to kayak. I was in the kayak about to be launched off of the dock, and I was like, how do you— how do you steer? And he was like, you've never kayaked before? I was like, no, but I'm going to now. And he was like, just turn it this way. And So then, you know, when I come back in, I didn't flip over, I lived.

Yeah.

Am I a kayaker? I don't think I'm an expert kayaker. I don't think I'm going to receive any payment or checks for it. But do I get to say that I'm a kayaker now? And so I think we have these weird labels too of, am I an ex— what is— do I have to be an expert to begin?

Right.

No, let's just try some things. And so allowing ourselves to do that can help open us up. Up, but it's hard to take that first step.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I think what really helps with that is if you surround yourself with a support network that helps you do that. Um, sometimes that's what you have to do. If you can't make yourself begin, then have some helpful hands.

Yes, hands or a foot or pushing behind you.

Yes, well, Andy, My husband, who I know you both know, talks about without a deadline, that deadline or the at 7 o'clock on Thursday or whatever, I have to do something, right? That process sometimes is what you need in order to just start.

And when you use the analogy of improvisation, that speed helps us to move towards solutions so much more quickly because the audience is paid, they're standing there, they want you to deliver something. When they give you a suggestion, you are going to move to solution immediately. You're not going to say, "Well, Lena and I are going to go back and chat about what roles we're going to play and what process we're going to do." So we practice that muscle of getting used to receiving information and reacting. The only way that we're going to be great at that is if we are in that moment. So it's building that confidence to allow us to be in that moment, then move towards solution with whatever information we get. So it's all a practice of building up those muscles.

I kind of think that my podcast has been my practice of that.

Yes.

Because I'm putting out a lot of content and I can't analyze too closely. Like, I want to make sure it's up to standard, but then beyond that I'm just like, well, oh well, there it goes, you know? And I do get feedback. Back one way or another about it based on downloads or comments from people, you know. And that has helped me so tremendously, just being willing to do more, because I think the practice of it just reminds you that I survived, I'm okay. If I fall on my face, that might be a good story that comes out of it, who knows. But I'll— nothing really on the whole We can survive these things.

Yes. And the feedback you receive will make the product even so much better. Right. I mean, there's no way you can know, you can't live in our heads and try to script and, and be fortune tellers. It just doesn't work that way. You know, you have to let the market tell you what, what, what works and what doesn't work. And we work a lot of in the, in the innovation space, obviously. And that's, that's a big part of it is you have to be quicker to getting feedback from your customers and actually understanding where they come from.

This morning, I have to tell you guys, the podcast that went live yesterday, there was a comment. The speaker I spoke with that I was interviewing, Scott Savage, and he's a pastor who does tons and tons of speaking, and he talked about how really the way he improved was through brutal feedback.

Yes, I listened to that. I thought it was fascinating. Yes.

Really cool conversation. Well, on Twitter this morning, one of my— one of just like my biggest fans, he's always sending me notes on Twitter. He said, I just bought the domain feedbackjunkie.com. What are we gonna do with it? Oh, well, I was like, I don't know, but he— but he just like latched onto the idea.

Yeah.

Yes, we— if we can give each other helpful feedback.

Yes, that's right.

Feedback is an art. It is not— whew! Bad feedback is terrible and good feedback is so valuable. But when you can get that, otherwise we're just— I don't know, I feel like even as a speaker myself, if I'm not getting good feedback, I'm just lost.

Mm-hmm.

You know, because we can't see ourselves in the way that other people are seeing us.

But you have to be in that place to be ready to hear it. And I know there have been different times in my career where I wasn't ready to hear it. I was just too— things were not great in other parts of my life. So hearing more things about opportunities or things I could do better, I wasn't in that place where I was ready to do it. So when, you know, this opportunity came and I just, I love the mission of what we're doing at the Brave New Workshop. And when I saw, when I'm in my best place, the impact that I can have and the connection that I can make with people that I train, I only wanted to get better, and I knew I could only do that if I got out of my own way and got someone on my team that has a great eye and can give me that feedback. We know that it's not good or bad, it just is. It's an observation. It's something that someone else can see that I can't because I'm in it. I think the big piece of that is being ready to hear open, honest feedback.

Well, and trusting the person that the feedback giver has has your best interests at heart.

Yes.

Not— they're not trying to take you down a notch.

Yes.

Right, because yeah, not trying to take her down.

No, she's a champion of me. So that is the person I can hear it from.

Yes, you want to invite that person in.

Yeah.

And, and that's looping back to the attitude of service as a feedback giver, really having that front and center and thinking about, oh, I would do it this way, right? It's not about me, it's not about my ego or whatever. It's about how can Margie do it better, right? So, and that's, that's a key difference.

Oh, well, it's so good you guys have each other, and yeah, that's huge. You know, it's how we grow.

It's how we grow. I was just gonna say the same thing.

Oh, Sally, we're having lots of moments.

I know, I know.

One more drink.

Yes, another round.

Like a kohlrabi martini infused.

Wow, herbaceous, herbaceous.

Yes.

All right, so you guys, I want to do this moved me moment.

Okay.

Yes.

Okay, but I'm, I'm gonna let you two be the moving moments people. Okay, so something that's moved you recently. Recently that we can pass along to everybody so that we can— they can continue to move people. What do you think, Elena? You want to start?

Sure. Well, um, I was having breakfast with my mentor, uh, Jackie Berglund, who's the CEO of Finnegan's, and, um, she is a tremendous person, just full of energy and passion. And she was telling me about her new project, which is this amazing Finingas Brewtel. So it's a hotel with a brewery, also paired with an event space and also paired with an innovation center. It's a— they call it the Finovation Lab, where social enterprises can actually start and grow. Um, and I was— it was just the two of us, so it was not a huge room, but she was telling me about this and she had this fire in her eyes. I mean, she was just so amazing. As she's telling me about the project and I could truly feel, um, the excitement and, and her passion. And I think that's so important as we communicate, whether it's one-on-one or to a large audience, to make sure we are invested in what we're saying. It's not just about words, it's about what it means and the why behind it and what it means to you personally. Um, so that it really moved me and, and, and I, I learned a lot from that. In the sense that you always have to make sure whatever you're doing is authentic and you can authentically advocate for whatever you're talking about and that there's something in it for you because that emotion, that passion, that translates and that's what hooks people in.

It's so true and you can see it and you know it's not just something where you can fabricate really, like it comes from within.

Oh man, Alena, that was great.

Cool, I can't wait to hear more.

Ah, Fidération!

Yes.

Fintel?

What's it called?

Finovation Lab.

Finovation Lab.

Yes.

Yeah.

Cool. Sounds like lots of just partner possibilities for you guys too.

Oh yes. Yes.

Absolutely.

Very cool. Okay.

It's on to me. The spotlight just got turned up on me. The "this moved me" moment is something that happened to me when I was facilitating a training. And so maybe it's a tip or shift that other speakers could make or something that I think we all know, we know it in our hearts, but it's a great reminder to me. So I was running a training not too long ago and, you know, even as speakers we know we can control what we can control and then there's a certain element that's just out there. So there was a participant in a training that, boy, was she not engaged. I don't know how else to put it kindly. Probably was on her phone a lot. Oh, no. You know, just couldn't care less. And so instead of me really starting to do that spinning thing where you're like, "I'm gonna get her. I'm gonna focus on her and forget about the other 50 people that were in the room," I just went forward, kept forward. That's all you can do in those moments. So after the training was done, and she did participate, and after the training was done, she asked if she could talk to me for a minute, which also just like fear. Just goes through your whole body of, oh Lord, you know, what is it? What is she gonna say? And she just said, you know, I really have to tell you that I, you know, got some really bad news last night and I'm in a really bad place and you are just what I needed today. And I thought, well, your body sure didn't show it. But, um, it was just so funny to me because it was a great reminder of everybody's going through something and you know, and so to be really empathetic and accept people of where they're at in that moment is a gift to them, and I think as speakers we can remember that again by just continuing to serve them. It helps us to get out of our own way.

Ooh, I love that. I wasn't sure where that story was going to go, Margi.

I know.

Oh, that must have made you feel so good and just also also, you know, feeling for her. Yes, through something.

But yes, but, and we've all had to go to work when we're going through something.

Yeah.

And it really is, you know, so I don't know, we talk a lot about body language and how you walk in and all of those messages that we're sending when I don't even think we realize it. So if we can help people to be more aware of that, it's a good day.

Yeah.

And, and just the idea that You don't—

you—

we can guess where people are at in the audience, but you don't know. You don't know what they're taking in and what they aren't, or how they're taking it in. And so especially when it can turn into like head spinning, where we're sure we lost people, or we, you know, sometimes we're right, but sometimes we don't know. Hopefully that doesn't happen a lot, but you know, but when it does It can so mess with your head, and the truth is you don't know.

Just take a breath, take a breath, and keep moving.

Well, this has been really fun, you guys.

Thank you.

It's over. I'm so glad.

I, I, every time I finish, I'm like, I could, I could keep talking.

Yes.

I have so many more questions. I'd love to dig in. You know, we could always do a part 2.

We could.

Yes, we should love to.

We would love to.

It would be great. I would love it. Okay.

Thanks so much for listening to another episode of This Moved Me. I'm so pumped that you're here with me because here I am, the beginning of season 2, and I have some super exciting news. I'm gonna do a webinar, you guys. In fact, I'm gonna do them monthly. I'm so pumped because this summer I got to work with an awesome organization and take some some of this content and do it via webinar, computer, from afar, and it worked!

They liked it.

They thought there was lots of good stuff in there, and I thought, okay, I could do something with this. So that's what I'm gonna do. I've got all the information over on my website. I'd love for you to go check it out if you're interested in hopping on the computer with me and walking through some of this content, how we can move each other with our talks and create talks that move the world. I'd love to see you over there. Go check it out. www.thismovedme.com/speaking. This moved me. What moves you?