119: MMM - On Feedback, Part Four: Honest and Helpful

Hey everybody, and welcome to This Moved Me, a podcast about creating talks that move the world. With me, your host, Sally Koering Zimney. Together with some fabulous guests, we will have a casual conversation about the art of public speaking, because a good talk can move the world, and it'll be fun. Yeah, I would think making alien cows meaningful. That's not a small task. I love your giggle. Wow. Oh my gosh, so we're waiting for everybody to figure out the alphabet. Alright, Movers, we are at part 4 of this feedback series. Man, I have loved doing this. This has been so cool. We've— part 1 starting with the A, part Part 2, God, what was Part 2 about? I can't remember right now. Part 2, oh yeah, letting go of your ego. I mean, leggo of your ego, which is really about ego. I'm trying to be cute on that. Mm-hmm. Part 3 is about relationship, investing in the relationship before you invest in the talk. Super, super important. And then Part 4, here we are, final part. Today is about what helpful honesty is and what it isn't. As people have told me that I'm able to give feedback in a way that's both helpful and honest, I want you to know I don't pull punches, but I don't go for the jab. And I think we all know the difference between not pulling a punch and not going for the jab. So how can we do this? How can we give more helpful honesty? Well, aside from starting with the A and letting go of my ego and building relationship, I make sure that what I'm saying is actually helpful. And it seems like an overly simple idea, and yet I can't tell you how many times I've heard people give unhelpful feedback. So let's compare some things. So I hear people sometimes say things like, "That section of your talk isn't working," or, "I just don't really think that's very funny." stuff like that. So kind of generic and just letting you know, "Er, er, you got a problem over here. Red flag, red flag." Let's compare that kind of feedback, which is, which is, you know, it's essentially, it's partial feedback, right? It's the beginning of the conversation, but, but it's not yet helpful. All right, all it does is say, "Oh, here's just making sure you know that's a problem," and then not helping them find their way through it. So let's compare that to this feedback that says, "You know, that section of your talk isn't having the kind of impact that I think it can, and I think it has something to do with the pacing. Have you tried going a little faster?" How did that work? Let's give it a try. Let's play with it. Or compare that to this feedback that says, "I have an idea for that joke or that, that section? What do you think of this line instead of that one? The first examples, you know, leave the speaker just feeling defeated. It doesn't show them any way out. And the second opens up the conversation, asks questions, offers possible solutions. Okay, the responsibility is for this kind of feedback is mostly on the giver of the feedback, but the receiver, you can also do your part by digging into the comments of the giver and get really, really curious. So, "What do you mean by that?" "Can you tell me more about what you're saying there?" or "I don't quite understand that yet." "Do you have any more examples of what you're talking about from my talk?" or "I was thinking about maybe trying this. What do you think?" or "Why do you think that? What specifically did you see?" or "Any thoughts on what I I could do instead? Okay? It's up to both of you not to settle for feedback that isn't helpful and to dig deeper. And if you can't make your feedback helpful, I don't think it's ready to be shared yet. If you get feedback that isn't helpful, you can discard it, or perhaps you can work the problem together. There's something about this part that isn't working. I'm not sure what it is. How does that part feel for you? And then try and wrestle with it together. That's a way to approach it. A big learning in my work as a coach was learning when not to give feedback and timing it out so that it was feedback they could act on. You might see the end goal in your mind like, oh, I totally know what they need to do here, but it's 8 steps away. And if you give all 8 of those steps now, they'd walk away with a big F you running through their brain, right? But if you can map it out and give them what they can handle as they can handle it, keeping that long game in mind, assuming you have that kind of time and that kind of relationship, well, that is incredibly empowering for the speaker because you haven't just dumped something on them, "Here's the problem I see," and walked away. You've helped them find their way to something different and maybe, hopefully, something better. That's so powerful. So let's, let's review. Part 1: start with an A. 2: let go your ego. Get rid of your ego. Make room for change. Part 3: it is truly about relationship, so invest in that. And part 4, make it honest and helpful. This is not just about— this is not just about creating better talks. This is about what happens in these conversations is we are growing people who can share themselves with courage and authenticity because those people are the ones who will create a talk that will truly move this world of ours. So this is not small potatoes. I think this is really important, and it is not work for the faint of heart. It requires vulnerability and courage and authenticity to even enter into this kind of work. And my hope is that we will do more of it. And I truly hope that this series has been helpful for you as you are doing the incredibly important work of creating talks that will move this world of ours, because I think we need it. So thanks, that's it for me in this feedback series. It's been so super fun, I've loved it. So thanks for joining along with me. I've got another exciting guest coming next Wednesday in the show, um, and more mini movies on the horizon. This moved me, let's move