120: Scott Jones - On Starting Over with Speaking

Hey everybody, and welcome to This Moved Me, a podcast about creating talks that move the world. With me, your host, Sally Koering Zimney. Together with some fabulous guests, we will have a casual conversation about the art of public speaking, because a good talk can move the world and it'll be fun. Yeah, I would think making alien cows meaningful. That's not a small task. I love your giggle. Wow. Oh my gosh, so waiting for everybody to figure out the alphabet. Hey Movers, it's Sally Koering Zimney, and I'm really excited to introduce you to my guest today. His name is Scott C. Jones, and Scott reached out to me because he's a listener. Hey Scott, how are you? Woo woo! And he sent me a little note and just said, I'd love for you to take a look at my TEDx talk. And since I love to watch talks, I thought, okay. And then I just looked at the title of the talk and I thought, whoa, what is this about? Super fascinated. That's all I'm going to tell you because, and a forewarning, there may be a little swearing. In this episode because there's a swear word in the title of it, and it is a fantastic title, and I'm just teasing it out for you. Now you're gonna go, you're gonna hear Scott talk now, and you're gonna want to go watch this talk, and you should. It's a fantastic talk. And what I love about Scott is aside from him being a TEDx speaker, he comes to the table with tons of experience in front of the TV camera. He is a co-host of a daily TV show called Reviews on the Run. He's a writer. He lives in Vancouver. He's done lots of TV work, and there's some shows syndicated. So maybe you've seen him before or heard his name before. That would make sense to me. But what I love about Scott is he really comes into the conversation with a lot of humility because of what he's experienced. And he'll share more about his story in the episode, but really it was a story of him starting over in a lot of ways and taking some big risks in new ways. And one of the ways that he was doing that is through his speaking career. So, um, I, I really I really loved connecting with him. He's been very humble in the process and so thoughtful in reaching out and really eager to learn and get better. And so it was, I thought, a wonderful conversation, and I'm so excited for you to hear it. Here he is, Scott C. Jones.

Hello, I'm Scott C. Jones. Yeah, always nice, very educated. They just don't— I don't know, they just want everyone to feel comfortable. You know?

I do know.

Why are you laughing?

Because as a Minnesotan, it's just, resonate, you know? Like, we Minnesotans and Canadians, I feel we are of the same—

Very similar.

Yeah, of the same fabric.

I can hear it in your show, when I listen, you want the guests to be comfortable, you want them to have what they need, you want to give them their spaces to have their moments. And that's, actually, your approach to building the show the way that you do is a very Canadian approach.

Interesting. Versus—

I mean that in the most complimentary kind of way.

I was taking it as a compliment, so I'm glad you meant it that way. Yeah. Like, what do you hear that other people do that you're like, that's not Canadian, for example?

What do I hear? Well, I listen to— and I was going to talk about this when we're recording. I don't know if you started already. I did. Okay. I listened to a show called Beautiful Anonymous, which is hosted by a guy named Chris Gethard. Uh, Chris is from New Jersey. He's based in New York. He actually lives in my old neighborhood in New York, in Jackson Heights in Queens. And I don't know Chris personally, but I heard a little clip of his show Beautiful Anonymous on This American Life, which of course everyone's a fan of. And I was so moved by it. And it's the show where the premise is that you can call into him. You have 1 hour to talk to Chris, and it's completely— you don't reveal anything about your identity. And you have this very real, very raw conversation. Sometimes the conversations are very moving. They're like little, you know, little miniature personalized documentaries. And then other times they're a little tedious, which is the risk of doing something like what he's doing.

Yeah.

But when I listen to Chris, I think he's a great host, but he doesn't have what you have. Chris is a little selfish sometimes. He likes to talk about himself a little too much. But I think he's also learning how to fit in with these people and find moments, you know, to talk about things that he cares about. I just think in the early days of making the show, he just— he puts a little bit— a little too much of himself into the experience. You don't do that, though. I don't think so. I feel like you pick your moments, you wait until everyone's done talking, and then you have your little moment, and then you bring the person back into the conversation again. I think it's great. It's an amazing skill.

Oh, well, thank you.

You're welcome.

That's very nice of you to say. I do feel like I've learned a lot, and just like in any craft or anything you're creating, that's the only way to figure it out is just get in there and do it and humble yourself in the process.

Yeah, and I can hear the humbleness in your voice. And like, I figured you were— I didn't know exactly geographically where you were located, but I was figuring it was someplace like Minnesota for sure. And again, I mean it in the most complimentary way, but you're just, I don't know, I wouldn't have been surprised if you were also based in Canada.

I take that as a compliment. Thank you.

Yeah. Canadians are the nicest people, really. I, you know, uh, you know, I, I guess I'll tell you the story about how I get involved in television.

I would love to hear it. Yeah.

Scott, jump in. I'm a writer, uh, primarily all my life I've been, you know, very introverted, very quiet, very, I mean, almost antisocial. Like, I just— being with people takes a toll on me. And then, um, but when I was in New York, I got a phone call one day and it was from a video game company known as Electronic Arts. And they said, listen, we need somebody to go on morning television tomorrow to talk about the new football game, the new Madden. And, uh, I don't love Madden, uh, but I have— I did play football for about 15 years and I know a lot about Madden. I know a lot about football. And I thought, you know, I could say no here But I think I gotta say yes. And so I went in and I did it and it went well enough and I met the people on the show and they brought me back. I became their morning video game guy. So I was the guy who'd get up at 4 in the morning and go in and sit down and have these really awkward, very brief, they're like 2 minutes long conversations trying to explain to people who are waking up across New York City about how some silly new video game worked. Or what was great about this game and why they should go out and think about buying it. Um, and I did that for years, and I kept doing my writing. I never made any money doing television, but, uh, then I would go to the annual convention called E3. E3 is in Los Angeles, and it's where the entire industry in North America comes together for about 4 days to talk about what games are going to come out at Christmas, talk about, you know, look, we're all going to look ahead. Everyone has these huge press conferences. Nintendo will have a huge press conference. PlayStation will have a huge press conference. And we go to E3, and one year I went to E3 and I met this guy who I'd seen on television. His name is Victor Lucas. And I would, I would see Victor Lucas on TV in New York, and I would think, how did this guy get that job? It's amazing. And I'd had a couple drinks at this party, and I just said, hey, you know, I like what you do. I think you're amazing. That's, you know, it's great. And I made a joke. He had another co-host at the time, and I said, you know, I like what you do, but I really can't stand your co-host. And I think he appreciated the honesty from me at that moment. Lots of people, uh, loved and hated his co-host, which was the role his co-host played on the show.

Gotcha.

And Victor called me a couple months later and he said, listen, I don't remember your name, or he had somebody in his company figure out all my biographical details, and they got in touch with me. And he said, I'm coming to New York, do you want to shoot together? And again, I just felt like this is really not This is not me. I'm not a, you know, I'm not in the drama club at all, you know. And Victor is— he was a TV actor, and then he's been hosting the show. He was— at that point, he'd been hosting the show for about 15 years. And I said, listen, I, I gotta try it. I have, like, personally, I have to try it. If I don't try it and fail, then I'll always regret it. So I forced myself to go, and we went to Central Park, and we shot about 4 or 5 game reviews together. And I couldn't believe how comfortable I felt with him. And I think he was surprised too at how comfortable we were together. And, uh, I would meet him at various functions in the video game and tech industry, and we would get together and we'd shoot a little bit, we'd shoot a little bit, we'd meet and shoot because he was— he's based in Vancouver. And, uh, then a couple years later, bizarrely enough, I was dating a woman who was from Vancouver originally, and we were going to move here together. And I asked Victor if I could come work with him full-time, and he said yes. And the love story part of that story, that didn't last very long. But that's how I ended up in Vancouver, and that's how I ended up working with Victor. And I ended up hosting two— not one, but two daily television shows working with Victor Lucas, who really is like the Captain Kangaroo of Canada. Like, he has such an amazing voice. And I feel like working with him and jockeying for position on the show helped me to develop a voice, right? Like, I love articulating things and I love expressing myself and I love language, but I didn't have the inherent, you know, drama training that he had. And I learned so much from Victor. And his show actually has been going— it's been going over 20 years now. But the way that we used to produce the show ended as of the end of 2015. So the show isn't on TV anymore. And I haven't been— I haven't hosted anything at all this year. And that's really what got me interested in doing more public speaking. And that's how I found your show. And I found you. And I found— I'm just looking for messaging, messages across the industry for people who can put together great talks how they put together great talks, how they have to make these great moments for themselves. And listening to the series of interviews that you do really helps me, as I'm sure it helps a lot of your listeners.

That's so cool to hear. And what I love about your story, Scott, is that you said yes to something that you were a little bit nervous about, right? And That little yes just brought you bit by bit by bit to a career in television. And I think for so many of us, you know, there's a lot of people who are like, I want to get into the speaking business and I want to be a keynote speaker and I want to, you know, like they have the dream is big and it starts with saying yes to the Rotary talk and saying yes to the toast, you know, or whatever opportunity pops up in front of you and just taking every single one of those and learning from them because that's how, exactly as you said, that's how you find your voice and articulate your identity and find your feet and your body in that different space, you know?

Yeah, you know, I just recently listened to your talk with Jared Sherlock. I'm not sure if that's his real name or if that's a pseudonym, but it's a very cool name.

No, totally. I don't know either.

Like Jared Sherlock.

Especially if you're going to be a magician. I don't know. I know. I mean, I'm totally with you.

I have no idea if it's real or not, but you're like the third person who said, "Is that his real name?" I'm like, "I don't know." But I do, you know, I was listening to your conversation with Jared and I thought he was really amazing, but I feel like being a guest on your show, which is such an honor for me, um, I, I still feel like I am not an accomplished public speaker. I have hosted a TV show for a very long time, uh, but I, you know, the TED Talk was really the beginning for me, and that's what sort of lit, uh, lighted a little fire underneath, underneath me to make me feel like, well, listen, nobody wants to give these talks. So if I'm going to look for a new career, maybe this is something that I specialize in. I can— I'm the guy who can give these talks. And so my goal after the TED Talk was to do one talk per month, to find a stage and to put myself on that stage. Now I'm in Vancouver, which is probably of all the major cities in Canada is the most beautiful, but it's also the least electric. Like if I lived in Toronto, I'm sure I could find stages to give talks on once a month, no problem. Uh, and in New York for sure, that'd be easy, but in Vancouver it's a little sleepier. So it's been hard for me to find, you know, I, I shake the tree as much as I can, but fruit doesn't always fall off. But I do think it's important to just keep looking for stages. I kept thinking in the beginning, wow, I'm really good at this. Maybe it's from all the years of TV, but I've, I've had some talks that really went the other way. And that's one of the things that you and Jared talked about was finding, you know, being in the moment and sort of expressing yourself in a way that feels genuine, even if it is something that you've rehearsed, it still doesn't always connect with the audience. And, you know, and so basically that's the way I've been living now since the TED Talk, is I do my talks, and then if it's a success, then I feel like a superhero, and if it's a failure, I kind of pick through the wreckage. And they're never terrible, but they're just never quite as electric as I want them to be, you know. And, and that's the thing I'm still trying to figure out. I'm trying to deduce, like, what do I need, what don't I need, how do I be more in the moment, how do I be more present during the talk, you know. Uh, the other part of the story, and you know this from, from seeing the TED Talk, is I got very sick in 2014, and, um, and I had a stroke, and I had open heart surgery, and I went through this amazing thing that I'm lucky to have survived. And, you know, most of it's in the TED Talk, and most of the TED Talk is very lighthearted. But I, you know, and one of my struggles with deciding to do the TED Talk was I didn't want to be the sad TED Talk. You know, you look at the sad— you look at the arc of the way a TED event is put together, and there's always a sad one. And I'm like, well, I guess They want me to be the sad one. Like, this is a terrible thing that happened. But then we sort of found a way to talk about it with a lighter touch.

I love your talk, Scott.

Oh, really?

I really do. Yeah.

That's so sweet for you to say that. My mom, I think, is still embarrassed that I would be on that stage and use the language that I used.

Yeah, it's got some language in it. Yeah, you know, it intrigued me when, when you sent me your email and, and you had your TED Talk link in there. I opened it up and thought, what is this? Like, what am I about to watch here? Um, but it's a wonderful play on words actually, and it's sticky and memorable, which is important. And you also, like you're saying, you approach a deep and, um, sad and challenging topic like your own health and your own struggle with a lightness and a different approach, which I feel like is so important because TED Talks can get really snoozy when they take the same approach every time. It's like, I know exactly where this is going and what this is doing. And I think as as a speaker, we, we have to— aside from telling a great story, whatever we pull out of that, we have to be able to pull out something, um, different that brings new insight. And I felt like you did that, so that's applause for you, you know.

You know, the TED Talks can be, can be snoozy, but they can also be a little snooty.

And so for sure, yeah, yeah.

And I was, I was kind of glad that I came down on the, on the, um, the safe side of not being, I think, either one of them. My talk wasn't too long. TED Talks can be a little long sometimes. They can start getting up in the 20-minute range, and, um, I— and they really tried to keep us for— I know every TED is different, but they, they try to keep us around 10 to 15 minutes. So I had a little smaller window to work with. But you also have to remember, I was still recovering from a stroke, and I still am right now. And it takes a long time for your brain to kind of reassemble. And, you know, when I first woke up in the hospital I had trouble counting. I had trouble, you know, they would come in and ask me a series of questions every morning and I couldn't, I could only answer a few of them. And it is kind of, I couldn't read for a while. And reading has been one of my favorite things in the world. And I just thought, well, what kind of quality of life am I going to have if I can't read anymore? And so doing the TED Talk was very intimidating for me because I can't really remember things very well. But then we turned it kind of into a little dramatic piece in which I had that prop of the piece of paper that I pull from my pocket.

Yeah.

And I knew once I got to the paper, I was okay. All I had to do was get to the paper. And so I remembered as much as I could. I did. I don't think I forgot anything. But once I got to the paper, I was very comfortable and confident. And so building that into the, into the, into the moment. You know, I mean, I think you can see some of the relief on my face when I get to the paper. Like, all the pressure of trying to hang on to these few things during a time when my memories were just kind of blowing like leaves in the wind. It was such a little bit of comfort.

Well, talk about vulnerability and taking that kind of risk. For anybody, you're always afraid, especially when they expect you to memorize so and so insistent about it. You don't have the crutch up there that you might have. So I'm sure pulling that piece of paper out was just like, okay, I've got— I'm glad this worked out.

I think that there was— there was some sort of teleprompter, um, but I don't really— no one ever showed me where it was, and no one showed me how to work it, so I don't even know if it was on.

Oh, um, that's not very helpful.

No, and you really— I, I mean, part of it's my fault. I should have investigated further, but when I went out there, you know, I just, you know, I don't know, I, I just had to do the best I could. And, uh, yeah, I don't— I do You know, I do feel like that was such a special moment, but I, you know, I, I can't help it, but I think that's just natural for all of us. I'm sure you would feel the same way after giving a, a talk like that. You would feel like, well, maybe I could have done it better.

Yeah.

You know, and I do feel like these are opportunities that I want to take advantage of, you know, and I don't know how much or how little it's going to have to do with the rest of my life, but I do think I have to make the most of them when they come along. And every talk kind of feels that way. And I do try to do my best, but it doesn't always go my way. And, you know, I don't get depressed or, you know, I don't go in some sort of downward spiral when that happens. Now I just think, well, that one didn't go as well. And was that me? Was it the audience? Was it a combination of the two? You know, and I just kind of pick through it, try to reorganize it and then do it again.

Well, and And honestly, of course you could do it better. And I would say that to anybody in any talk. And if a speaker is at a point where they are giving this talk so perfectly and they can't think of any way to stretch it or make it better or to jumble it up at all, then it's time to write a new talk. Time to start over and create something new that will challenge and stretch you because that's I think that's the only way to keep it, um, you know, during my stroke recovery, uh, I had a lot of free time, um, because I wasn't working.

And so one of the things I did was I took a stand-up comedy class and, um, I, uh, it's something I'd always wanted to do all my life, even though I'm a morning person. And this is the one reason why I'll never be a stand-up comic. All of stand-up comedy takes place after 10 PM and that's just, that's too late for me. Um, And so I took this class and I, you know, I, you know, we would do little sets in the class itself in this little kind of safe space. And none of my sets were really working. I think I'm a good writer and I think I'm funny sometimes. But one night I didn't even want to go to class and I'd written this new material and I thought this material sucks just like all the other nights that I've gone to this class. And I just thought, you know, I'll just go. And I had such an amazing set. Like, I'd never seen people laugh like that. But what was happening in that moment was I was discovering the value of the material at the same time that the audience was discovering the value of the material. And my emotional response was just right in tune with the audience. And it's the right place to be. And there was an immediacy and an intimacy me in that moment. And I, I never found it again, but I— for one night I had that. And I never, I never forgotten that. In every talk I've given since then, I think if I can somehow discover something about this talk and about the subject that I'm speaking about in front of these people, then my talk is going to be better somehow. Do you know what I'm saying?

I do. No, that those moments are so rare. Yeah. And that's the time I've seen that happen. I've been on stage when that's happened before and I've watched it too. It's so cool to see because the audience is changing your content and you, you are responding to it and, and realizing where the— there's, there's all this space in your content all of a sudden that you didn't know was there before and like different levels. And it's— that's one of my favorite things to watch. Oh yeah, it's so cool.

I'm like, it's the best.

It's— it's— to me, it's why I've never felt very comfortable in front of a camera. Like, I've done it, I can do it. But it's why I feel most at home, I think, on stage, because there's an audience and that kind of instant feedback and the sort of loop that happens.

Right, right.

I think is so cool, right?

Um, yeah, so I, I mean, at, at this point, I, uh, I'm— I don't have an agent, but I have been talking to a woman who, um, she has a business where she manages some speakers, and we're trying to reshape my TED Talk into a way that it can be a keynote, um, because it— I mean, I would just— again, I'm just looking for more stages. It's not even really about the money. I just, I want to do a great talk. I want to do a talk that's always exciting to give, that's always evolving. And I want to, I want to do it for different audiences. So I've been kind of going, taking, taking steps down that road, thinking that it might or might not be part of my future. Now, you have, seems like almost all of the people you have on your show are very accomplished for the most part.

Yeah, I mean, different levels and in different ways. I've talked to some people who it's their job, they're professional speakers, but I would say a lot of the people I talk to, it's just part of one of the many things that they do. It's one of the many ways that they bring their message or their passion or their cause or their whatever it might be, whatever they're working on out into the world, which I think is most probably applicable because I think most people are not on their way to become one of those, you know, a keynote speaker that makes tons of cash in one swoop. They're out there and I know some of those people and I wouldn't mind being one myself, but it's that, that's That tends to be a little different track than people who find themselves up on stage because they've discovered they have a story to tell. They've got, you know, like your experience is what happened to you in 2014 and your stroke, like that has propelled you up on stage. You know, you probably weren't expecting that. That's what happened.

No, but you know, like, Sally Koering Zimney, but all my life I've, I've been a writer, and so I've always— I just, ever since I was a kid, I just always feel like I've, I've had— I've been just seeking out interesting experiences and interesting stories. And, you know, I grew up in the woods, but I was fascinated with New York City, and I never got there until I was in my early 20s. And then when I got there, I just thought, I'm never I will live here my entire life. I grew up in the woods where we had a dug well and it would freeze in the winter and we lived in a trailer and my dad ran a chainsaw on weekends and it was just very, very remote and just rural life. And then New York City was so fascinating to me. People lived on top of each other, which just blew my mind. There was a train that runs underneath the city. This is like a fairy tale. Retail place, right? And there are just millions of stories happening every second of every day. And I just thought, I want to be— I want to be part of this. I want to be part of those stories in some way. Um, and I feel like I've always been drawn to that, finding interesting things to do and interesting places. And even when, when I was in the hospital and I was at, you know, at the bottom of the well, and I was about as sick as any person could be, I just The one clear thought I still had in my stroke-scrambled brain was that something, something great is happening to me, and maybe I'll be able to write about it later, or maybe I'll be able to tell the story in some way. And that— I feel like there, there is a healing property in that kind of realization, that even in the worst moments of your life, there's still— there's some— something great is happening to you, and you're going to be able to tell other people about it.

I love that mindset and that approach because, um, I think it's amazing that you realized it as it was happening. I think for most people they don't come to that place until sometimes years afterwards. They realize, yes, oh, there's something valuable here, not just for me but for other people. Um, but to have that kind of realization had to have been really soothing, or just like, okay, I'm gonna get through this, and there's a greater purpose to all of this, you know?

Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, the reality is, when I was sick, the doctors came to me and said, listen, what we want to do is we want to do open-heart surgery on you, and we want to take part of your heart out and put a plastic valve in there. And then they came back the next day and they said, listen, we're not going to do that. And then they came back the third day and said, listen, we've talked again, we are going to do that. And I just thought, you guys just decide what you're going to do. I have a friend who was in some of those meetings and she said they decided not to do it, or they thought about not doing it because they didn't think you would survive.

Wow.

And, um, and when she told me that, I felt kind of— I felt excited and lucky, and, you know, lucky to still be here. But I just felt like, ooh, the story just got better. You know, like, now I've got a new detail.

Yeah, totally.

And I think no matter if you're on hold trying to call the credit card company, I feel like things happen all the time, no matter how mundane they seem to be. I feel like there's value in everything, you know, even in, in the most prosaic even the most tragic moments of your life, there's value. There's value that you can maybe use in a talk or use in a piece of writing, or maybe it's just some idle thought that you can share with a friend or someone in your life, someone in your family, but there's value in all that stuff.

Good stuff, Scott.

I don't know, I feel like maybe I'm being too heavy.

I don't know. No, no, I love this stuff. I love to talk about the stuff that's underneath the topical stuff, the surface stuff. And that's, that's what you're getting at, is that it's not just, you know, like, pay attention to what's going on in your life. That's right. There's— if we can really, um, be present with what's happening and dig a little bit deeper, man, this— we all have stories every day.

We do, we do. And I, I think, I think most of us live our lives in a way where we fully realize the incredible things that are going on around us, or we don't realize the incredible things that are happening moment to moment, even though they're pretty incredible, you know. Yeah. So I think always trying to give yourself that, that sort of, you know, reality story check, um, just keeping an eye on what's happening with you. And, and I don't know, I— maybe it's too self-involved. Maybe that's one of the reasons why I'm not married, you know. I don't I don't know, but it's something I've always done all my life. And I've just somehow, I've been fortunate enough to build a life where I think that is the core value, stories. And so everything, like right now, I'm not doing TV anymore. And I'm looking around for new things to do. And I'm doing a little bit of freelance work here and there. But I do know that whatever I end up doing, storytelling has to be part of it.

How did your storytelling event go?

My storytelling event, I, um, I, uh, there's a group here in, uh, Vancouver. It's not The Moth. I don't know if you know The Moth.

I do, yeah.

Yeah, I love The Moth, uh, but they don't have a Moth chapter here even though they have one everywhere else. Here they have a thing called The Flame.

Okay.

Um, and so I, uh, my first job out of college was as a mall Santa Claus. And, um, they always do a holiday show for The Moth, and I thought, this is perfect, I'll tell my mall Santa Claus story. I've waited my whole life to tell it. And, uh, so I started talking to the Flame people, and I said, listen, I gotta, I got a mall Santa Claus story I want to tell you. But it took me a long time to kind of, uh, insinuate myself or get them to trust me enough. They weren't going to just put me on their Christmas Spectacular show You know, I had to prove myself a little bit, which is what you always have to do. And I made friends with the people who run The Flame. And so the storytelling event was my chance to tell a story. It wasn't my mall Santa Claus story, but I ended up telling a story about one of the myriad medical miracles and things that I've— my body has somehow been vexed with and I've somehow survived on the other side. And so I told this story. I don't know, no, I don't know if I need to say it, you can edit it out if you want to, but I lost a testicle when I was 19. And it really was, that was quite a loss when you're 19. So it was about that. And it was about learning to, you know, I moved to Chicago and I wanted to, you know, just sort of figure out how I was going to go on with my life, my dating life with one testicle and how it was going to handicap me or not handicap me. And so that's the story I told. I have no problem going to those places. And I feel like that's, you know, even the most embarrassing things that happen to you in your life, the most personal things, if you can find some way to think about them, to write about them, to relay them in a poetic way, profound way, or they have so much value.

Right. Thank you for sharing that. And I don't have any problem sharing that. I'm— it's really, it's up to you.

Yeah, it's fine with me. I don't mind.

Because I was just having a conversation this morning with a speaker who is completely new. I mean, he's kind of being asked or feels like he should do some speaking at a conference but he doesn't want to. So I was, I was trying to figure out, like, should I talk him into doing this, or should I just release him from this feeling that he should do this? You know, I was saying there's all kinds of benefits that could come from this, but if you can't get to a place where you are willing to risk, we are willing to get to a level where it feels a little scary, then I don't think you should do this. Because if that doesn't excite you or make you a little nervous in a good way, then I don't think your audience is gonna benefit at all from you standing up on stage. So it was a really interesting conversation because I was talking to him as a coach. I was like, I think I'm talking him out of Speaking. Hmm.

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah, I do think there's so much value in it, and I do think there's value even in the terrifying, most fearful moments. And I do think— I love that moment. I love and I hate the moment just before you're, you know, when they're announcing you to go out on the stage. And you have white knuckles and you're standing back there, and there's just this almost— I mean, for me at this point, it's just kind of a shrug. Like, I'll just do the best I can.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

There's this room full of people and I'm gonna stand in front of them and I'm gonna try to make sense. Um, but I think, you know, if, if it's not too traumatizing for you— and for me it's not really anymore, but if I was 10 years younger, I don't know if I would be able to do this right now. And I really do think there's— there, there are incredibly talented people who can do this, who like the spotlight, who like the stage. But I also think those people who have a little— who are a little scared of it, like it sounds like the interview you were doing earlier, I think, you know, those people can— there are things that can certainly benefit them by going out there. So, you know, something that can actually make them grow and evolve and, and become more interesting, more refined versions of themselves by going out on the stage. Like, go out there and try it and And if you fail, we'll talk about why it didn't work. And if you succeeded, wow, what a great victory. Let's do another one.

Great. Yeah, absolutely. All right, Scott.

Yes.

You know what I'm about to say, don't you?

I know. I know. I have my list.

You got your "this moved me" moment? Let's dig in.

You know, I always— I pick things that are very relevant and recent to me, OK? I mean, I could go back and I could pick some old short story I read that meant a lot to me, blah, blah, blah. But I got to tell you. Like, this sounds a little crude, but I do look at Netflix. We all do. And the other night, it was strange. This old film, this old 1982 film called Fast Times at Ridgemont High, it just popped up and I thought, you know what? I don't know if I've ever seen this film all the way through. And so I clicked on it and I started watching it and I was completely absorbed by the experience. Mostly, I think what I was absorbed by was the fact that I've, I've aged. And I think it's still a little startling for me because I don't have the typical kind of benchmarks that, that a 47-year-old man would have. You know, I don't have kids, I don't have a wife, I just have two cats. But looking at this movie, I just realized so much time has gone by. And I just looked at sort of the ways in which the movie wasn't finished. And it was, you know, again, referring to what you mentioned a little earlier, but it was just, there was something raw and revealing about it that I really appreciated. And that I don't think I would have appreciated, certainly not back in 1982, when I was still terrified of life, when I was still terrified of women, when I was still terrified of the future. But seeing it now, I just think like those little bits of the film that aren't polished, then, then aren't completely thought all the way through, that just kind of hang out there. Like, that's— those are the things that really give it a pulse, that make it feel vital and alive. And I don't know if I was moved, you know, in the way that, you know, Chris Gethard's beautiful Anonymous podcast moves me, or This American Life moves me, or Amy Cuddy's great TED Talk moves me. But there was something about it that I have been thinking about all week and talking about all week. And I've been just encouraging everyone to go back and see Fast Times at Ridgemont High. Sean Penn, very early in his career. He's just a kid. He plays a very comedic role. But I don't know. I hope that's okay that I said that.

Absolutely. Yeah. Whatever is speaking to you, I think, just can inform us as speakers and movers, like how we do what we do. So I love it. I don't know if I myself remember— you said Fast Times at Ridgemont High, I'm like, oh yeah. But then I'm like, I don't know if—

You're probably younger than I am.

Just a little bit.

Yeah. So you might not have— it was barely relevant to me. You know, I graduated from high school in 1987. And so 1982 film, like it always did seem a little grown up to me at the time. And I'm sure for you being a few years younger, it's going to seem even more grown up to you. But I would really recommend seeing it. And I just can't believe how much time has gone by sometimes. And I guess that's just what I— you know, it's like I see my parents maybe once a year now. And when I see them, I'm like, "Oh, yeah, these people are getting older." And the same is true for, you know, these movies like Fast Times at Ridgemont High. I'm like, "Oh, yeah, this was a really long time ago. Things were very different back then." Yeah.

Oh, my gosh. Fun. Okay, I'm gonna watch it. I'm gonna watch it.

What do you got for me?

Okay, here's what I got for you. So I always do like what the thing I can think of like, but most recently struck me. And for me, that is this video that came through on Facebook. And it is about this woman, this young woman. So she's in high school, 15, 16 years old maybe. And she was diagnosed with MS. And she's a runner. And so you're watching this video of this woman, this young woman. She's a distance runner, and as she runs, as her body heats up, she loses feeling in her legs.

Oh wow.

Yeah. And so she— when she runs through the finish line, she can't stop. Her coach has to literally catch her, and then they have to cool her body down as quickly as possible so that she can feel her legs again. I mean, it's, it's amazing, and it's maybe 8 minutes long, and it's this really incredible story of this young woman who wants to run while she can run because she knows that at some point she's going to lose the capacity to do it, so she's gonna do it while she can. And the role of the people in her life who are helping make this happen, even though it's kind of embarrassing for her and she— it's scary, you know, so the like the bravery of the people around her and how they're all helping her do this thing that makes her feel capable and strong, um, and gives her this moment while she, while she can have it. It's really amazing.

Oh my God, Sally, like, you are making me messed up here. Well, I am so moved by that, and I haven't even seen it yet. Um, but, um, like, I, I guess that, you know, the thing, the part of that story that I understand and maybe better than most people is our bodies fall apart at some point and there are going to be things that you want to do. And I understand this woman's will to want to keep doing what she loves and she's doing it while she still can. I'm going to watch that as soon as I get off the line here.

Awesome. Yeah.

Go find it. That's incredible. I feel so embarrassed by mine now.

No, don't at all. No, what are you talking about? I love—

Amazing.

You know, I just— every week I kind of write down a handful that I saw or experienced that, that moved me emotionally somehow. And when I saw that one, I was like, oh, I'm gonna share that on Scott's, because given what you had been through, it just felt like there was some resonance there. So I'm glad, I'm glad you appreciated it.

Oh, it's so moving. Um, and you know, the other great one is the one that Sherlock, if that is his real name, used the Tig Notaro thing. I, of course, was very moved by that. She's incredible.

Oh my gosh.

And she has such— that's such a great moment. So he had a really great one, and I just thought, "I can't top that." So I'm gonna go the other end of the spectrum. The lowest, most shallow end of the swimming pool.

Fast Times at Ridgemont High!

Oh, please forgive me, Sally.

Oh my gosh. You're forgiven. I think it's great. I like it when there's broad spectrum because it's a reminder that even in the like stupid pop culture stuff, you know, there's, there's something in there for us. I'm a believer, you know. I, I'm really— don't discriminate on all that stuff because you just never know what's going to speak to you.

Yeah, I don't know. And I think it's like every day is a subjective experience. You don't know what's going gonna move you. And then you come across it, and it might not move everybody else, but for, for you, that's what's working today, you know? And tomorrow it's going to be something different.

Yeah, love it. Okay, I gotta go. This was so, so much. Oh, of course. Thanks for joining me and for reaching out to me. I always— I, I mean, I love to hear from people who listen to the show, and I'm so grateful that you would share your story with me and allow me to help share your story with everybody else as well.

I tell everyone about your show. I tell everyone about your podcast. You have an amazing voice, and I love that you've built this. And I do feel like it's such— I'm glad you had the foresight to do this because I do think we live in a time when someone needs to be celebrating the craft of these moments. And you really, you just because you look at these moments and you talk to the people who make these moments and you deconstruct. And I love that you do that. And so I wish you all the best going forward. And if there's ever anything I can do for you, I would do it.

Aw, Scott, I'm really grateful for your words. Thank you. It really means a lot to me.

I'm grateful for you too. Thanks, Sally.

Cool. Well, we'll be in touch.

Yes.

Awesome. Oh, Scott, you really—

you are—

Sally Koering Zimney, thanks for—

I hope so.

All right, thank you so much for joining me on the show this week. I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Mr. Scott Jones. I know I did. It was so fun to connect with you, Scott. Thanks for reaching out to me. Next week I have on the show a friend of mine. His name is Josh Johnson, and Josh, um, aside from being a speaker that I've worked with and coached, and, and he's doing so much good work in the world, he's also on YouTube and has a weekly vlog that he puts out into the world and has done some really creative stuff there. So I actually have been picking Josh's brain as I think about ways that I can bring my work more to the YouTube world. Which I know I've talked a little bit about. I've got some videos coming out. I've got some really exciting things in the pipeline. And so to kind of bring all of us into that conversation and think more about how we can do this on in the YouTube world. What? So crazy. Um, we're going to be talking with Josh next week. Really excited about that. And, um, I'm holding, I'm, uh, I'm, I'm dialing back a little bit on the Friday shows, um, which are super fun, but, uh, there's some other things I want to get going. First. So I'm going back to just once a week, which is, I still think, plenty, because I feel like every time I open up my podcast app, I don't know about you, but I'm just like, oh my god, I can't keep up with all the podcasts that I love to listen to. And I'm hoping mine is one of them, and I want you to be able to keep up because there's lots of good stuff and I'd hate for you to miss it. So we'll— I'll still bring you some mini Moved Me's, but they're gonna be on Wednesdays.

Woop woop!

So next week, look out for Josh Johnson and more stuff coming coming down the pipeline. Thanks so much for listening. Hope you guys are having a great day. This moved me. What is moving you? Check you later.