125: Harriet Turk - On Keeping it Real

Hey everybody, and welcome to This Moved Me, a podcast about creating talks that move the world. With me, your host, Sally Koering Zimney. Together with some fabulous guests, we will have a casual conversation about the art of public speaking, because a good talk can move the world and it'll be fun. Yeah, I would think making alien cows meaningful. That's not a small task. I love your giggle.

Wow.

Oh my gosh, so waiting for everybody to figure out the alphabet. Hey movers, it's Sally Koering Zimney, and today I get to bring you another amazing interview with a the wonderful and funny and so down to earth and delightful Harriet Turk. Harriet Turk is a speaker. She speaks with mostly young people and teenagers. And I, I was referred to her from the awesome Bob Trianski. And if you've been listening to the show for a while, you know, Bob sends me names of people because he's been out in the speaking world for a long time and people who he thinks would be great for the show. And he's always right. Harriet Said on the show at one point, you know, I've never met a career that I didn't think I could give it a go at. And she's so right. She has been speaking for over 20 years, but she's also been a probation officer, a youth programs coordinator, flight attendant, pharmaceutical sales rep, a college-level instructor. I mean, she, she kind of has done it all. She's a mom.

As well.

And what we talked about on the show was really about knowing your thing. And when we know our thing, and it takes a while to do that, then we can really connect with our audience. And sometimes in surprising ways, in ways that aren't necessarily flashy or splashy, or that, that get all the accolades, but that you know you're making a difference on an individual level. And I think that's so powerful. So we had a wonderful conversation. I can't wait to share it with you. Here she is, Harriet Turk.

Okay.

Well, really, I never wanted to be a speaker. I love—

so many people start their origin story with that. Like, really, this was not the plan, but here I am.

Oh no, not the plan at all. I mean, it was the last thing I ever considered, but I put on conferences as a youth programs coordinator and I hired speakers. And I never could find women speakers, and I never could find speakers in the realm of— I was doing mainly alcohol and drug prevention conferences, and so many speakers were recovering addicts, and I have never used a drug in my life, and I kept thinking, what about the kid who was like me who'd never used drugs? And so I thought, there needed to be that kind of message as well. And so the more that I hired speakers, the more that they said, "You need to be doing this," because I was always the MC for the conferences. And I was doing it around the state of Mississippi in high schools, but I never thought about doing it nationwide or on a grand scale. And the more that the speakers said, "You should be doing this," and I thought, Huh, okay, why not? Because I've just never met a career that I didn't think I could not do. So I just—

awesome.

I've had many careers, so I just thought, okay, well, I'll try it. And I had a few of those speakers who said they would help me, and they did. And so that's what started my business. But, you know, I also thought that I could I could save the world. And so that was a rude awakening that everyone didn't listen to my programs and then immediately become wonderful. So Harriet had to understand that she could not save the world. But it was just a— I don't know, just— I really had a heart for teenagers and a heart for social service. That became the foundation of my whole career.

Well, cool. You bring up something that I think is really important, and I've heard some speaking coaches and groups talk about, like, don't fool yourself, transformation is too much to ask from an audience. And yes, that's grandiose and aspirational, but I think on a one-on-one scale, like maybe not all 500 people walk out the door going, yeah, I'm drinking the Harriet Kool-Aid, you know, but, but there's gonna be a handful of people who are like, that is the Kool-Aid I have been thirsty for, you know. So sure, how do you, knowing that you're, you're not changing the world, what drives you in terms of the kind of impact you want to make.

I think what's very interesting about being a speaker is that you go in there thinking that you're going to hit certain targets or certain groups of people. And for me, what I found is I hit the very group that I don't think I could relate to. In the '90s, in the late '90s, when goth was huge, the people who look like The Matrix, basically. Those were the students who would come rushing up to me afterwards. And in the beginning, that scared me because I am your typical preppy, you know, so far from that kind of person. And I didn't understand why they kept coming up to me. And it was because so much of my program was about being yourself and being happy with who you are. And it was the first time that those students had ever heard that they didn't have to change who they were. And I really finally understood that some of the people who didn't look like they were listening were the ones who came up to me afterwards. And I understood that so many times as I'm speaking and I'm having conversations in my head that people hate me, you know, or that no one's listening to me, those are the ones who are actually processing what I'm saying. Are the ones who come up and talk to me after. And it's just such an amazing journey as a speaker because while we're up there having a conversation in our head of, "I wonder if I'm touching anyone," we really are. We're just not getting that rah-rah reaction that we think we're supposed to get. And I don't know, I get letters and phone calls and even notes pressed in my hand afterwards. That's when I know that I've made a difference. And with teenagers, I mean, they let you know very quickly whether they like you or not in terms of whether they're going to listen. Now, whether they are smiling is a completely different story. But I don't know, I think sometimes you have to put your ego aside. Well, not sometimes, a lot of times you have to put your ego aside and just do your thing. And if you're authentic in your heart of your message, then Um, somebody is going to be affected.

I always—

I, because I spent a lot of my speaking career, uh, talking to teenagers and young people, sometimes even younger than teenagers, and they have such a great BS monitor, you know. Oh, absolutely. They just will not stand for something that they sense is false in any way. So it's It's such a great training ground.

Absolutely.

And I learned so much about having to just show up and really let the speak truthfully and honestly and not prettify. Prettify. I don't know if that's a word, but I don't know. I'm going to go with it. Beautify, pretty up, whatever.

Gotcha.

Prettify. All right.

I'm following you now.

Oh, good.

Okay.

But we, we tend to, especially when we're talking to adults, want to impress. And teenagers don't care about that. They don't want you to impress them. They want you— they want to know that you get it, like, get their life. Have you found that to be true?

Absolutely. And I'll be real honest, so many times I have wondered why in the world people hire me because I don't see what is special about my programs. I don't see what is my wow factor. I've never had any unbelievable tragedy. I've never been Miss America. And so sometimes I wonder what my hook is. You know, everybody's talking about, "What's your hook?" And I'm pretty just average and normal. And so I've always wondered what that is. Over and over again, what I get is, "You're just real, and you just talk to us like you're one of us, or you really get us." And so I've had to understand that that is my gift and that is my hook, that I just get them. But I also do not ever go into a program with just— let's say if it's 45 minutes, I never just have 45 minutes worth of material. I have probably got 3 days worth of material, because with teenagers, you've got to be able to change change your program within seconds. If something's not working, you've got to pull something else out. And I see so many speakers crash and burn because they come in with one program and that's all they've got. And if you can't change directions very quickly, then teenagers are going to tune you out. Adults will be polite and listen, and teenagers are just like, "Pfft, all done with that." You know, so, yeah, I mean, they can basically boo you with a look. Oh, absolutely. Not only that, but they'll just start talking or, you know, they'll just do their own thing. They'll pull out their books and start reading. They'll start— pull out their phones and start texting. They'll put on their headphones, you know, so you really have to be able to capture them. And so you've got to be able to transform your audience in some way. But whether you can capture all of them, that's a different story.

So part of what you're talking about is your journey as a speaker went from believing that you'll show up and everything, they will be changed, to realizing that it happens in the small moments and unexpected ways with people you didn't expect to be impacting. And there's all kinds of beauty in that as well.

Well, I've also had where I did a program for one corporation and they— when I got finished, I asked the meeting planner, you know, 1 to 5, what do you think? And he said, oh, I'll give you about a 3. And I was like, oh no. And he said, yeah, it was okay. And I walked away just going, "Oh, great." And then about 3 months later, I got a phone call and I answered the phone and he said, "4.9." And I said, "Excuse me?" And he said, "Hey, Harriet, this is Chris. I'm changing my score. It's 4.9." And I said, "What are you talking about?" And he said, "I gave you a 3." It's because I wanted my employees to walk on water when they left your presentation. I wanted them to be cheering and just so excited, and they weren't. But in every single meeting that we've had since then, they have said, "Now remember that lady who talked to us? Remember she said this?" Or, "Let's incorporate this." So I know that your message had a lasting impact, and that's more important than the rah-rah that I wanted. I think that's another thing is you may have your audiences cheering, but if they can't remember anything that you've said an hour or two or a week later, then you may have gotten the standing ovation, but was it really worth it and did you really earn it? And so I may not have that wow factor in terms of everyone standing on their chairs and clapping, but hopefully they can remember a few of my points and sayings months later.

So, oh yeah, I mean, that's what you really want. But it's interesting that, um, especially from a client's perspective, so the person who's hired you and brought you in, uh, good for him for seeing the long-term impact and following back up with you because you needed to hear that.

Absolutely. I did need to hear that because I was thinking, great, you know, I'll never get hired again by them. And plus, one meeting planner can influence many other meeting planners, and that's one thing I don't think speakers take into account. They just think, oh, that was just one meeting planner, no big deal. But meeting planners talk, and so You know, the fact that he came back and changed his score is going to help me with other meeting planners within his network, right?

And that's just a beautiful lesson, I think, for everybody listening to hear and be reminded of that, uh, you know, the flashy speaker. I think there, there is some sort of, um, allure to that, right?

Sure.

I want to be, I want to be the And they probably earn a lot of money because of that.

Sure.

And yet that's not the only way to have an impact. And in some ways, that might be empty.

Well, I was on a program last week, and I went to watch the opening speakers because I'd never seen them. It was a little group, and I'd never seen them before, and I leaned over to a friend of mine while they were talking, and I just said, "Oh my gosh, I don't want to follow them tomorrow. They are amazing." And so we all can get intimidated because they were so full of energy and so wired. But then I did mine the next morning, and I had just as many people come up to me afterwards, and I got a standing ovation as well. And I kept thinking, "Oh my goodness." But this is why there needs to be so many different styles because we all impact people in different ways. We don't all have to do it the same style. And so many new speakers believe, "Well, I have to be funny." And no, you don't. I mean, sure, everyone likes humor. I don't like gratuitous emotion. Some speakers believe they have to make people cry, and that annoys me.

But—

Um, it's like, if it happens, great, but let it be authentic.

They're pinching themselves on the inside of their pocket to like really get the tears going.

Or some will even say, you know, at this moment I know my audience is going to cry. And I'm like, that's just manipulation, and that's so annoying, you know. But, um, I love it. Um, I'm, I'm not your normal woman speaker, I think sometimes.

But—

Oh, well, it's funny, you know, like you've said a few things like that where, you know, you're like, well, I'm not like this, I'm not like that. But what you're also talking about is really knowing your thing, knowing what you bring. And it takes some time to find that and to trust in it and to not panic when it does feel like you're being compared or you have to follow somebody who's totally different than you and be like, no, stick with your thing. Do your thing, trust yourself, trust your skills, and how essential that is.

Well, I have had, um, several really good friends who have said to me, you are most powerful when you are vulnerable. And that is so scary to me because I don't like to be vulnerable, and they know that. And several times they've said, you get, you get very close to that point and then you back off. And I think we do that sometimes because we're not very comfortable in that place. And we don't even realize that we're powerful because we're more comfortable maybe in the shallow moments. Like, I get much more accolades sometimes from work, fun for myself if I'm being funny or having audiences cheer. But maybe I'm making the most impact when it is a little more emotional, but it's scary for me. Leading them there. So, you know, I think we all have to really figure out, you know, who we are and what is our thing and what do we do well. And sometimes it may be scary for us, but we do it well. And so we have to step outside our own comfort zone and we, as we're leading our audiences, to do the same thing.

Right, exactly. It's so great that you have— it sounds like you have lots of friends friends who surround you in this work who have been honest with you and also just help guide you in your development. That's huge.

Sure. I am not afraid to ask anyone for their feedback because I think that's the way it helps me grow. And sure, there's some people that I don't trust, you know. Oh, you're a ma— you're just magnificent. You were just awesome. And it's like, No, seriously, give me some feedback. Oh, I can't. You are awesome. And it's like, okay, great. I'll move on to somebody else because we're not always awesome. But I am not afraid to ask for feedback and I will give feedback as well. But I always want to make sure it's constructive. And I, I feel like I have a really good nucleus of speakers who we do hold each other accountable and we do give each other feedback and we do help each other grow because Shoot, we all need that kind of help from each other to be better with our craft because so often we are by ourselves. So if we do have that opportunity to be with another speaker, then yeah, let's help each other and stop looking at each other as competition. I think that really upsets me when everybody looks at each other as competition rather than a colleague.

Right. There is trust that plays into feedback, and not just like, I trust that you're not gonna gloss over, but that I can trust you enough to say, here's what I'm struggling with, like this part in the— in this talk I don't feel great about, like what could I be doing there? To be able to give that to somebody else and trust that they're gonna handle that with care and not, um, you know, be flippant about it, but, right, you know, be thoughtful in their response. Trust is so huge, and it's hard to do that when it feels like you're— I don't know, like you said, their competition, or yeah, battle, or—

exactly. Well, and I've been struggling with a new opening for a couple of years, and some of the people that are in my little circle have been giving me great ideas, but nothing has felt comfortable for me. And so I'll take pieces of what they say, or some I just don't do at all. But, you know, after a while, I've kind of taken everything that people have said and included my own ideas and then come up with something. But if I wasn't able to bounce ideas off somebody else, then that would just be awful. Oh yeah, just awful.

It's such a collaborative art form, I think way more than anybody guesses.

Yeah, it really is.

You're just one person up there, but the process of creating is, gah, iterative and takes— it's non-stop and it takes years sometimes.

Oh yeah, and I think we have to know what other people within our markets are doing as well, because if we don't, then then we may be doing the exact same kind of program that they are. And so let's say that I'm the opening and you're the closing and our presentations are virtually the same. I mean, that's not doing our audiences any favor either. So we have to find out where our special elements are that we can pull out and twist it. 'Cause I mean, let's be honest, you can only say, you know, be a leader in so many ways. But if you can do it with different twists, That's where some of the magic happens.

So where does story come in for you? And I know story is a part of every talk in some way or another, but like, what's your relationship with story as a speaker?

I always use my own stories. I use everything that happens within my life. But one area that's real good for me is that I have teenagers come up and talk to me after my speech. And in fact, I just published a book called After the Speech: When Teens Get Real, and it was because teenagers come up and talk to me and tell me their stories. And so what I do is think about maybe some things that happened to me when I was a teenager and that's parallel, and I'll create stories from that. Or I have a 15-year-old son, and so I talk about things that maybe are going on with him, or I just really look at life or things that are happening and my view. I don't like things that I see that motivational speakers especially do that make life seem really easy, and then they give that information or— like, for instance, when people say, "Believe and achieve." I think that's ridiculous because I would be Miss America, right? Or, you know, I would look like J.Lo.

And I just gotta just believe. Exactly. Right.

And, and I had a teenager actually who told me he hated people like me because I was not allowing people to achieve their dreams because I was a quitter. And I said, no, I'm not a quitter. I just understand that Just because you believe does not mean you're going to achieve all your dreams. And he said, "Well, I am." And I said, "Well, good luck with that." And, you know, of course, we talked a lot more about that. This was after— I mean, it was a Twitter firestorm that he was giving me. But I think if you give simplistic information like that, especially to teenagers, then they start to believe it. When they don't achieve all their dreams, then they start to think that they're big fat losers. And so rather than just thinking they're experiencing life. And so I really try to give them real-world information and scenarios about, yeah, sometimes you can believe in yourself, but you're not going to achieve all your dreams. That doesn't mean you're a loser. So I try to come up with stories that show you'll win and you'll lose. So I don't know, I just try to be very real, you know.

Well, and of course, and I think we all know this, but it bears repeating and just reminding ourselves that, uh, who, you know, if you share a story of all your successes, I cannot relate to that, and it makes me feel crappy about my journey. But when you share the stumblings, then I feel like, okay, I'm not alone.

Exactly. Well, and even like, I, you know, I say that I've never used drugs. Well, I don't talk about it in a I'm super proud pompous way. I talk about, you know, it was tough to say no a lot of times. And sure, I'm curious. To this day, I'm curious what it feels like. But just because I'm curious doesn't mean that I should, or just doesn't mean that I should alienate those who have, or those who problems with it because I've also had people I love who've had serious addiction issues. So, you know, I really want to teach compassion in all of my programs as well so that we can all just really help each other get through life.

Right.

Which is, I think, you know, ultimately, and the beautiful thing that I'm hearing As you're talking, Harriet, and knowing that so many young people approach you after your talk, which to me is the ultimate compliment, like, I feel connected to you. I want to talk to you more. I feel like I know you. I feel like I can tell you these things. Like, that's to me such a huge compliment and says so much about you. But also, I think the point, like, in my mind, if I were to say that the point of speaking, it's to connect. It is connection. Not just between me and the audience, but also between the audience and the world, like the audience and each other, the community, whatever, whatever it is, like we can be brought closer together.

Yeah, I mean, it's, it's really true that I know that I connect with my audiences, and I know that they tell me a lot of things, and sometimes that's beautiful, and a lot of times it's too scary to me, or I can't respond to their Facebook messages because of the privacy settings, or I don't know who they are, or I respond to their emails and I never hear from them again. You know, I get a lot of information that I wish I didn't have. But that's why my presentations are not anything about me. I go in there and my presentations are about them. I'm just the delivery mechanism. And I think that's very important for speakers as well. It's not about us. And I had someone who wanted to be in the youth market and he contacted me about being his coach. And that's not something that I normally have done. And he wanted me to help him in the youth market. And I said, "Well, you know, I might consider it." He said, "But before I—" If you agree, I want to know how much money you made last year. And I said, what are you talking about? And he said, well, I need to know how much money you made because then I would know if you are worthy of— because then you would be the kind of coach that I need. And I said, well, right now I can tell you I'm not the kind of coach you need because if you only are going to judge my worthiness on my salary. Right. Then you're not going into the youth market with the right, you know, attitude. And so I think we really have to figure out— I mean, sure, everybody wants to make money, that's our business, but you have to figure out why you're doing it.

Um, well, it's interesting, you started this conversation by saying, I really never wanted to be a speaker. And you know, I found as I've talked with now hundreds of speakers and coached hundreds of speakers, the people who go into it realizing that they— the message is what's carrying them out in front of people, not, not just a desire to be out in front of people. Because, I mean, let's also be honest, it's, it's fun. Like, I love being on stage. Sure. But if that's my driving force, there's some emptiness there that doesn't serve the audience. And they sense that, you know?

Sure. And I know that having been a meeting planner makes me a better speaker because some of the speakers that I hired were awful to work with behind the stage but were fabulous on stage. And I knew I never wanted to be like that. Or they would be on stage and talk about the fact that they've never used drugs or they don't drink. And I was like, well, then you can pay for that bar bill that you had last night. You know, so their messages didn't match their lifestyle. And, you know, some of the contracts from some speakers that I got, it was just incredible. It's like, I don't know who you think you are, but you are not a celebrity. So I don't know, I just want to be easy to work with too. I want— I'm one component of a meeting planner's conference, right? And I do understand that. Yeah, exactly.

How much effort and time and coordination and magic they're trying to make everything work.

Yeah. That's huge. And at the same time though, and at the same time, I know as a speaker what I need to make my program work. And so I am not going to demand that I have food in a dressing room for me, but I would demand a certain kind of mic or a setup of a conference room. Because that's going to help me as a speaker. I can get my own food, right? You know, things like that.

So, oh my gosh, I bet you've got great insight. I really do. Well, we should, we should do a second conversation that's just what speakers need to know, like what your meeting planner really needs from you. Absolutely. Oh my gosh, okay, let's plan on that, Harriet, because I think that could be really Okay, now at the end of my show, I always end the show with a "this moved me" moment, something that has moved us recently, moved you recently, because I really believe as speakers, if we want to move our audience, then we ourselves need to be really connected to what's going on with the world and with us and where we're at. So do you want to start or do you want me to start?

Um, you can start. Okay, I'll start.

So last night I had tickets. Glennon Doyle Melton is out on tour. Do you know Glennon? I don't. So she's an author and she's written a book called Carry On, Warrior, and she writes a blog called Momastery. Oh, I do know her then. Okay, I figured you did, just because it's unusual to find especially a woman who does not at least have read something of hers or whatever. She's— I, I'm like, I— when I read her stuff, I'm just like, whoa, man, she's like such an incredibly beautiful writer, and I'm a, I'm a fan. So she was coming to Minnesota, which is where I live, and I was like, oh, I've got to get tickets. So this was way— maybe January or February for this event in April, and then it got canceled. I was so bummed. But then probably within a week, another event came up of hers in Minnesota, and I just jumped on the opportunity to go and watch her. And she, she was wonderful. She is so funny. She is so funny. And I was not expecting her to be funny, but honest to God, I was like the whole, you know, maybe 50 minutes that she talked, I laughed my head off. And then there were a handful of moments where it was like, ooh, yeah, which is kind of her specialty where she just like phrases something so beautifully. And in that phrase is like a glorious little nugget of wisdom. Um, but from like a, a speaking perspective and a coaching perspective, it was really interesting to me. She's talked publicly a little bit about she really battles her fear of speaking. Like, this is— she wants to be in her office writing, but this is part of her work now. She's gonna go out and she loves to meet people and she loves to be out connecting with people, but she does not love the speaking side of it. But here's how she set herself up, and I thought it was really wise. Instead of just standing— her standing up there and, you know, standing and giving a talk— they had it set up so it was she and a woman they brought in to— I'm gonna use air quotes here— interview her. But the two of them were sitting there, and so it felt like a conversation, but literally she talked for— they, you know, she asked her a question, then she talked for 50 minutes, which was a talk. I mean, I was like, oh, this is her written talk. But she did it in this very, like, girlfriend sitting around talking kind of way, which is totally her mode. So as we were talking earlier, Harriet, about just like knowing your thing, I was like, good for you, Glennon, not feeling like you've got to do it like somebody else. You're just— you're gonna— you know your thing and your strength. And, uh, you know, I mean, I sort of saw through it a little bit as a coach. I knew what she was doing, but I thought it was really smartly done in that way. And she was wonderful. She was wonderful. And I've seen her talking where she's standing up and you can tell she's not comfortable in that way. So, and that was, that was a few years ago. So I'm sure she's evolved and improved since then. But this was thoughtful to me. I was like, that was a really smart move for her to know her thing and to bring that. And The moment that I found so moving in particular was she was talking about canaries and like the canaries in the coal mine, and that there's some of us in this world who are canaries and are just more sensitive to the toxins in the air, and that we need, we need to listen to them because they're trying to tell us something. Um, and I just thought that was a really powerful metaphor and concept that she brought to life. And oh, I thought it was great.

That is good.

Yeah, a little more writing about Glennon, um, and I'll put it on the blog. But, um, and if anybody has not discovered Glennon, you must. And I'll put some links on our show notes for it.

I like that.

Okay, so how about you?

So this This goes along with speaking, but also personal life. I posted on a Facebook group for women about the fact that my professional life is great, calendar full, no complaints, but my personal life seems pretty empty and I have a hard time balancing it because I'm a divorced mom and I vacillate between needing time to hibernate when I'm home and or being with my son. And then I don't really have the connection with my friends much anymore because I can't commit to doing much with people and I can't be in a club or an organization because of my professional life. And I was wondering if anybody else felt that way because a lot of times I just feel honestly just pretty alone when I'm at home. And it was overwhelming and awesome because so many women felt like I did. And it really opened up a conversation to where people were giving each other ideas of how they have either done it in the past or how they would love to have change. And then a few people started saying, "Hey, if you're in my city and you'd like to get together," Please know my home is always open. And so it really opened up this huge conversation for these women. You know, we're all talking about, you know, connecting whenever we're in each other's cities. And I thought, I'm really not as alone as I think, or my business isn't as crazy as I think it is. Because, you know, I said earlier, we're all like little islands, and it's true. And, um, but everybody really is searching for connection. And while we're doing all this great stuff professionally, sometimes we need to take that time for us personally. And so it was just— it really moved me because it was so nice to hear that a lot of people feel alone and how we could connect. We just have to keep reaching out, you know, for ourselves. And I made some new friends just by that post.

So, and I don't know, that was true because it took that initial step into vulnerability to be able to admit that and just say, here's where I'm at and I'm struggling on this side. Is anybody else feeling this way? I mean, that's a really vulnerable question to ask.

Yeah, because, um, sometimes I do, I just feel like, what the heck? But It was nice to know that I didn't, you know, I'm not the only one. And then what also came was that there were some women who were married who were saying, well, I kind of feel that way because my husband is an introvert, or he doesn't like to go to social events. And so that started a whole nother kind of thread of conversations. So interesting.

I love it.

So yeah, so it seems like, you know, women really do need to connect, and sometimes we do feel like we're the only ones feeling a certain way. But once we open up a conversation, we find out that we're not so different after all.

So yeah, Glennon did a whole thing about that last night, how she was so funny. She talked about showing up at a playdate, like when her kids were little, and she, she really struggled. She's like, I love my kids, but I didn't love parenting little kids. Like, I think it was really challenging for her and challenging, I think, for everybody to some extent or another. So she was at this playdate and somebody said to her, so, you know, she had like a newborn and a 3-year-old and a 5-year-old. They're like, how you doing? How's it going? And she said, well, you know, those like volcanoes that are about to erupt and they're lying dormant, but within that volcano is like all this lava that could come out at any moment and like kill everybody. Like, that's where I'm at. And she said these women looked at her like, oh, so, oh, and she was like, oh, okay. So we're not doing that here. We're not just, we're not telling the truth right now. Okay. Yeah, I get it. Okay. It's great. I love it. I'm so in love and I love it.

Yeah, there was a— there's a commercial that was going around on Facebook about, like, I don't know, maybe it was yogurt or something, but it was so perfect because there it was acting like all these women were just having the most perfect morning. You know, they always make their bed, they always do yoga in their underwear before breakfast, and you know, they're just always so blessed. And, and I was like going, oh my gosh, because really and truly such a lie. And I have so many friends that act like that, like, I'm so blessed with everything. And it's like, really? You never ever cuss? You never ever complain? I mean, come on, right? You know, so yeah, right. I don't know, maybe that's my problem, is I'm just way too honest about—

No, I, I'm sure that's part of what is your gift as a speaker, right? Is that— and That's what I felt with Glennon last night too. We're all laughing our heads off because we have felt that way. But how many times in that playdate have we been like, oh, it's great, it's going so well. I mean, I'm not sleeping much, but I'm so in love, right? And really we're like, I yelled at my kids this morning. I'm so frustrated. I haven't showered in 2 days. I feel terrible about myself. I mean, like, whatever. That's— yeah, how many of us show up and really speak it? And it sounds like you do, and I love that.

It's so great. Yeah, well, I was screaming at my son the other day— well, a few weeks ago— because his bathroom was disgusting, and I was cleaning it for him because it was just gross. And then all of a sudden I turned around and I was singing, "Open up the champagne, pop!" And he just goes, "What is wrong with you?" And I said, "What do you mean?" And he said, "You're screaming and yelling at me, then you turn around and sing, open up the champagne, pop. What mom does that? I said, the mom who's trying to keep it together, the one who wishes she was drinking champagne.

The mom you got, buddy. Exactly. It's like, ah, so. Oh, that's great. I love those two ideas jammed together in one moment. Exactly. That's called getting through right there.

And do what you have to do.

Exactly. Oh, well, Harriet, this has been really fun. Bob was right. He was like, I can't wait for the two of you to talk. You're gonna be fast friends.

Good. Thank you so much.

So wonderful to have you on.

Hey Movers, it's Sally and, uh, can you tell where I am this time? I'm not on a train, I am on a plane. I just— flying home from Denver. I spent the last few days in Denver working with an organization out there, doing a workshop with them. It was so fun and moving. It was awesome. It was great. I'm like riding high from it.

And not just because I'm in an airplane.

Woo-hoo! Okay, here's what I want to connect with you about. Okay, I hope you loved that interview with Harriet Turk. She is so funny. She made me laugh a lot in that interview. So I really enjoyed it and I hope you did too. We've got some more amazing guests coming up in the next few weeks. Weeks. But here's what I want you to do. I'm just going to be really honest about this. I'm in a list building focus right now because I've got all these amazing listeners on the show, but no way for me to really keep in touch with you other than this show. If you are enjoy— enjoy my conversations, if you want more expert advice on how to really move your audience, go to my website, thismovedme.com. And this is a blatant ask. It's just an ask. Would you sign up for my newsletter? It comes out once a week. It's chock-full of some insight and ideas that I'm thinking about and resources and things that's moved me and quotes and beautiful images and all kinds of good stuff. I try and pack a lot into it and make it worthwhile because I, I don't know, I have mixed feelings about email. I'm sure like all of you do too, and it's really important to me that it not be crap, that it's real and it's worthwhile and it's useful for you. So I put so much effort and love and heart into it, and I would love for more people to receive it and to stay in touch because I've got so many fun, exciting things on the horizon. Bottom line, I want to be more in touch with you. So go to my website, thismovedme.com, or you can send me an email, info@thismovedme.com. And I'll get that personally and I will respond to it personally. It's my appeal to you. Okay, thanks, thanks y'all. Talk to you soon. Over and out. 40,000 feet in the air. Woo-hoo!

Do do do! Do do do!