152: Harris III - On Creating a Magical Experience for Your Audience

Hey everybody, and welcome to This Moved Me, a podcast about creating talks that move the world. With me, your host, Sally Koering Zimney. Together with some fabulous guests, we will have a casual conversation about the art of public speaking, because a good talk can move the world and it'll be fun. Yeah, I would think making alien cows meaningful. That's not a small task. I love your giggle. Wow. Oh my gosh. So waiting for everybody to figure out the alphabet. Hey Movers, it's Sally Koering Zimney, and I'm so excited to be back with another interview episode here on This Moved Me. We only have a few left before things will slow down a little bit over the summer. I'll probably be doing these monthly rather than weekly because it's summer and we should all be outside enjoying the world, right? And my kids are going to be around and that makes recording episodes a little challenging, not going to lie. But I'm really excited today because I have on the show Harris III and I feel like you've probably heard me talk about Harris and, and Story Gathering, which is the conference— and conference is probably not the best word for it— the experience that Harris is responsible for pulling together. Way back, like 2 years ago, Lindsay O'Connor, one of my guests, shared with me during her This Moved Me moment, shared with me some marketing materials from Story and read something that they had written, and I was so wowed by it. I was like, Wow, what is this place? This looks so interesting to me and creative and uncommon, which is the word that they use a lot when they talk about— this is an uncommon creative community. Well, yes, I totally believe that. And just unabashedly deep and digging deep into the ideas around who we are and how we share that with others and why we do that. And so I was really taken in by it. I didn't get to Story that first year, but this past fall I finally made it there and I even convinced some friends to go. And there I met some incredible people, brought them on the show, including Jason Jagard and Brad Montague, and both of them were like, "You've got to talk to Harris. He's the guy in charge." I said, "Okay, that'd be great." And so here we are. Harris and I sat down and had a conversation. Via el Skypo. No, Harris and I sat down over Skype and talked, and honestly, it was just a really great digging into how you create an experience for people that is moving for them, because he is the brain behind pulling all of these creative people together and why we do that. What is the purpose of that? It's more than just entertaining each other. It's really all about what, what are we doing here? And, and those are big questions. And what, whatever sort of background you come from, I think purpose is something that needs to drive all of us as creatives and as speakers and as leaders. It's about something more than just furthering our business or furthering our own ends. It's really about the good that this can have in the world, and that is exciting to me. I'm super on board with that. That's part of my mission and my work, so it was really fun to sort of bring these things together. Now, some exciting news about this is that registration for Story Gathering 2017 is open, and super exciting, I'm gonna be speaking there! What? I know, I'm super pumped. Think it's not totally nailed down yet, but I think what I'm going to be doing is doing some live coaching, which is one of my all-time favorite things to do, is to work with a few brave people who share an excerpt of their talk, and then I do some coaching with them and really lift them up and help hone their skills even more. Uh, so I'm really pumped about that and so excited to be partnering with Story. And as Harris and I were talking and getting this show ready for promotion, he said, "Hey, how about we give your listeners a discount if they want to come join us at Story this year?" So if you are thinking about joining us at Story Gathering this year, 2017, September 21st and 22nd in Nashville, oh my gosh, it would be really fun to see you there. If you can sign up, you will get a 10% discount. Okay, so use the code "thismovedme" all smashed together, no spaces, "thismovedme," and you will get 10% off.

Woo woo!

And we are listening to this on May 23rd, and on May 31st, prices go up by $100. So now is the time to act, my friends. Between now and May 31st, you could get $125 off. What? Including the promo code. That's awesome. And if you can Convince some friends to come with you. There's discounts if you have groups of 4 or more. That sounds fun. Nashville's so cool. And this gathering of people that already pulled together some really, really, looks like really interesting people. Brad Montague is gonna be back and Jason Jaeger is gonna be back. I'm super pumped. I can't wait to see them again in action doing their thing along with many other new people. Bringing their insights and man, inspiration. It is just a shot in the arm for us as story people, as creatives, as speakers, and people who want to really move the world. And I know that's part of the reason why you're listening. So let's do this, huh? I can't wait to see you there. Okay, remember the code, "thismovedme," but maybe you want to listen to Harris first. Right? And we're gonna talk a lot about it. I'll remind you of the code again at the end of the show, but I really, I wanted to let you know up front because I'm pumped about it, jazzed. Can you tell? I get kind of jazzed. Okay, cool. Well, I'm really thrilled to share with you this conversation with Harris III. Here he is, and enjoy.

Well, give me some context. Did you come to Story this past year? Is that how this all—

Yeah, yeah. Okay. And, um, thanks for coming. Of course, it was amazing.

Good. Was that your first year? You've been before?

It was my first year, but the year before, more than a year before, I had a woman on my show named Lindsay O'Connor.

Okay.

And she's a writer and a journalist and And she, for her this moved me moment, she shared something that was written to promote Story.

Oh, interesting.

And I was like, whoa, this sounds amazing. She was like, let's go, let's do it. And neither of us could make it, although I don't know, maybe she went, but I couldn't make it that summer or that next fall. But I was determined to get there the next year And I convinced a few friends who are also kind of in the creative world, like do video stuff. So I was like, come on, let's do this. So it was so amazing, really a totally different conference experience. And I use that word really like, that's not a word that I like. And because it doesn't give the right feel as a creative person. Like I help create events and stuff. And so for myself, I'm like, I've been yearning to have an experience like the one that I had at Story because it was kind of like an unconference in a lot of ways.

Sure.

That's all a compliment.

Yeah, that's awesome. No, I love hearing that. It's great. I'm glad it was worth the trip. Hopefully you'll come back and join us again.

I know, it's in the plans.

It was kind of a transitional year. You know, I don't know if you got the whole backstory, but, you know, there's a lot of changes between 2015 and 2016. So we were kind of setting off on this new path and it was questionable whether the Story tribe would, you know, be in or not. But it sounds like, you know, most people are all in and excited about the future. So that's fun. Yeah, it's an exciting season.

Right. So you took it over.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I spoke in 2014, which is when I became closer friends with Ben, the guy that started Story. Yeah, but I had started attending in 2012. Um, and yeah, I just kind of— I was like, this, this is unlike any other conference I've ever been to. If I were— someday I would love to run it and direct a conference, and this, you know, it would be most like this one. And so since I finally found something that already exists, why would I start a conference? I'm just going to go to this guy's conference. Um, and then I remember talking to him in the hotel in 2014, and he was just kind of burned out, ready to move on to something else. And I was like, man, you're just Story hasn't even like arrived yet. It's just starting to scratch the surface of the potential. Uh, he's like, I know, but I'm 5 years in and, you know, there's a lot of other things I want to do, and I want to help my wife start this thing that she's wanting to start. So yeah, long story short, I think he kind of got talked into doing 2015. He wasn't really planning on it, um, which is— if you talk to someone who's been to every single Story every year, they would all tell you 2015 was the weird year.

Okay.

Um, And so it's like, what happened? It's just because no one was— no one's heart and soul was invested into the experience. It was just, let's book some speakers. And it wasn't a bad conference. It's just, it was like every other conference. It wasn't the way people usually were used to speaking of story, which is, you know, it moved me, no pun intended. So yeah, it was, uh, yeah. So we kind of set off on this new path and some slightly new direction, and 99.9% of the feedback was over-the-top amazing. So yeah, it was great.

So the space is changing this next year, is that right?

Yeah. So Story's actually never been in the same venue 2 years in a row.

Oh, funny. Okay.

I don't know that we're intentionally moving it for that reason, but it does just kind of keep things fresh. I've got a feeling if this year goes well, we might be in the same venue again in 2018. I'm not sure, but last, last year we were pretty much at capacity. And there wasn't a lot of room for growth. Even things like some of the local universities in Nashville, you know, they wanted a special student rate and we gave them a discount, but it wasn't true to like what a student could actually afford. So there was just no way for us to set aside like, you know, 50 seats, 100 seats, 200 seats just for college students because we just didn't have them available. So we had to sell them at a higher rate, closer to the normal rate. So this year we have a little bit more flexibility just because we have a lot more seating capacity. And a lot more flexibility.

So much. I thought it was so beautiful. And, and that's, that's such a huge part of how, uh, an event like that feels is the space and what you do with it.

Yeah, I agree. I agree. It kind of killed us to move on. It's just they were— our hands were tied left and right by that venue. They, uh, you know what, the things that we did get negative feedback on were, hey, how come there was no coffee out in the afternoon? Like, they took the coffee away. It's like Well, we had to pay that. We had to buy that coffee for like $42 a gallon, you know, and you guys are drinking gallons of it. And it's just things that people don't understand about what's going on behind the scenes, like food and beverage minimums. And, you know, that's, for example, Story 2016 was the first year in the history of Story that we haven't been able to partner with a coffee sponsor or partner with a projection company to do some cool projection mapping. And a lot of that had to do with the fact that the venue would not let us do any of those things. Because of the way their contracts worked. And so for a creativity conference, for a storytelling conference, to have your hands tied and be, you know, every single week we would approach them with an idea. Can we do this? No. Can we do this? No. So their approach was, we are the gatekeepers of our venue and we're here to enforce the rules. And that was kind of their attitude. And this year at the Skirmerhorn, you know, their opinion is, hey, we're here to serve you and make your event awesome. It's a completely opposite attitude. Cool. So there's certain pros and cons to each place, but we're excited about some of the freedom we have this year to provide a better experience for attendees. So it's gonna be fun.

Okay. I think it would be really helpful to get that this is not all of what you do, right? Like you have a long history as a performer yourself. Would you say you're a per— as I know you're a magician, but would you say you're a performer? I don't know.

Yeah, sure.

Yeah.

I think what I do is hard to describe. And so I think there's probably 20 different things we could use to refer to it. Yeah.

So tell me the story, like how, what your connection is and why you see like you are starting to own this space as a creative and a leader in the creative world. Like where did that start for you?

Yeah, well, I think a lot of it started when I was 9 years old. I, I was trying to be the person that I felt like everyone in my school expected me to be. And in my town, it was all about, you know, sports or having a big truck. I grew up in a small farming community in a very, very rural part of Southeast Tennessee. And I kind of started gravitating towards baseball. I was kind of always an entrepreneur. I was trading baseball cards at school. I wasn't even great at baseball. I just saw baseball card trading as an opportunity to, you know, have an entrepreneurial pursuit. And yeah. I think my childhood was filled with stories. My grandfather used to tell me stories every single night as I would fall asleep on Friday nights. We spent the night at my grandparents' house on Friday nights. All my family lived on the same street. My parents had the kind of the minimum wage factory sort of jobs, and sometimes they would get called into second or third shifts. And so we would just— I spent a lot of time with my grandfather growing up, and he just always told me stories. So I'm 9 years old. I'm obsessed with baseball. And all of a sudden I get this magic kit for Christmas. And the only reason I remember the baseball thing is the only thing I remember asking for for Christmas from my childhood up until that point was a baseball glove. And that was the year. And I remember this box under the tree at my grandmother's house that I stared at for days prior to Christmas thinking that the baseball glove is the perfect size. I'll never forget the feeling of ripping the paper off and it was this little box of magic tricks. And to be honest, I thought it was completely dumb and stupid. I, you know, opened the box and started learning some of the tricks. And to me, there, I read the instructions and think, well, that's dumb. No one's going to fall for something like that. And I learned my very first trick. I go and perform it for my mom and dad and their eyes light up in wonder. And it was the first time that I remember someone else had looked at me with a response of awe and wonder. In response to something that I had done because I wasn't the cool kid. I kind of got picked on and bullied and all of a sudden something was captivating someone else and I was the person doing it. And I think that wonder is what hooked me to magic. And then, you know, it took me years, but years later I realized the reason why I loved magic. It wasn't just that feeling of wonder, but it was giving me a medium to tell stories through. It was my love for stories that my grandfather instilled in me as a little kid. And so I kind of latched on to this, this idea of traveling around performing magic shows and telling stories. That's kind of how it all began. Hmm.

Wow. I mean, I love that you are connecting story and magic because in some ways that's a surprising connection. Can you say a little bit more about that? Because So here's the thing I'm thinking about.

Sure.

Is that I think one of the superpowers that we try and create when we're up on stage, whether you're speaking or you're performing or singing or you're doing magic, is, right, this authentic connection with your audience.

Mm-hmm. Right?

And you, as a magician, are tricking your audience.

Sure.

Yeah, so it's sort of a flip on that. And yet, in order for it to work— Yeah, sure. Something real has to happen. And yet what you're doing is not real. I'm assuming.

Yeah, yeah, of course it's not real.

Yeah, because every once in a while I'm like, oh my gosh, that's so real. Like, I'm so bought in. I'm totally— I'm like your perfect audience member because if it's funny, I laugh. If it's sad, I cry. If I'm supposed to believe something amazing, I'm like, wow, I love that.

You just follow me around and come to all of my presentations. That would be awesome. You are not the only person who said that.

Like, please Please be in my audience more.

That's awesome.

But so obviously those two things are kind of in conflict with each other in some ways. Can you just pull that apart a little bit for me?

Yeah, sure. No, it's actually a wise observation. I think it's actually why magic has kind of remained the bottom rung of the ladder of the performing arts. And when most people think of the performing arts, they don't really think of magicians as artists. And I remember being on tour with a musician one time, and we were actually talking about art. And somebody said something during one of the rehearsals, one of these female artists. She said, you know, why you guys keep talking about art? She's like, well, you know, we're artists. And this is going to sound like I'm making this up, but I was really in awe that she had said this. She kind of started explaining, like, we're artists. Why are you guys referring to what you do as art, because from my understanding, you're performing this classic magic trick that was at the time it was rehearsing something that Houdini was famous for performing. And in her mind, she kind of viewed it as a cover, like, oh, this is like the equivalent of me being in a cover band. We're not actually creating. And I was so taken aback by that. And, you know, it was just kind of an insight into what I already knew, which was, you know, the majority of the world doesn't view magic as an art form. And I think you're kind of hitting on why that has been the case for so long. Because most magicians approach their presentation from the perspective of I'm here to fool the audience, I'm here to trick people. And that's not really what magic is about. Magic is about leaving someone awe and wonder. And I think you have to be honest up front in what you're attempting to do so that they, they understand kind of what the night is all about or what the morning is all about, whatever time of day you're sharing with them. So my approach has always been almost the opposite of most magicians, which is just to kind of come right out and be like, hey, everything you're about to experience here on stage, like, I know this and you know this deep down. We all know these things are not real. These are just clever illusions. And I'm not sure why audiences refer to it as magic, because it's not. It feels magical. And maybe that's how somewhere along the way people started referring to what they see illusionists perform on stage as quote unquote magic. But, but they're just clever illusions. That said, I think there's a lot of wisdom, and there's a lot of stories that we can tell through this medium that fills people with awe and wonder that we call magic. And so let's have a conversation about that. Let's explore wonder together. And I think just kind of setting the tone for my time on stage with them, there's this honesty and authenticity that comes through going, okay, cool. Like, we all know this— these things that he's doing, these aren't like some sort of supernatural feats. But now we know, we know the rules. He's not here to convince us of that. He's not trying to insult our intelligence and make us think it's real. And a lot of, a lot of magicians in magic industry, they actually give me some negative criticism for that because they're like, how dare you? How dare you not refer to it as, you know, magic? You have to believe it's real, otherwise your audience won't believe it's real. And I'm like, look, they, they know it's not real, so let's just begin from a more authentic place. And I feel like everything else I say, the stories I tell, the messages I deliver, as a result of that authenticity, um, I kind of have a connection with the audience and it resonates with them on a deeper level.

Nice. You know, it's funny, I talk a lot about authenticity. What does this really mean? What— like, how do we dig into this? Because I think it's like the special sauce. It's really hard to define and it's, it's hard to cultivate in terms of like, you should be more authentic or you're authentic or you're not. Or like, what, what, what does that even mean? I think it's important to think about and talk about. So one of the words that I've kind of globbed on to that has helped me make a little more sense of it and you're talking right into it, is the word integrity. And there's something about, um, sort of the, the integrity of who you are and putting that out and, and making that clear. And so your honesty about what is happening and the experience that you're offering to your audience, I think that's an integrity thing. And that's what people respect and appreciate and why your audience will be drawn into that. So like, that's the real connection you're creating there rather than, you know, really amplifying that fourth wall and saying, I'm doing this amazing thing over here and I don't really want you to know what it is, you know?

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. The whole time you were talking, I was thinking about the word vulnerability as well. But I think a lot of people attempt vulnerability but it's sort of manufactured. And it's very ironic because audience these days, their, you know, their BS meters are so good and they can sniff out when someone's not being authentic, which then causes them to lose their integrity. Right. And, but at the same time, like, I think that's why magicians have to be honest up front and authentic about what it is that they're performing, because it gives you that integrity. And then, and then when you are vulnerable with an audience for the sake of moving them, that vulnerability is coming from an honest place. It's not sort of manufactured. So yeah, I completely agree. Integrity, vulnerability, authenticity. That's what really separates good communicators, performers from great ones.

Yeah, it's a great little mind bender, isn't it?

For sure. Yeah.

Especially when you use and you think about, you know, magic or, you know, being an illusionist and, and how that just adds a really interesting layer on in terms of your role and like how to create that real connection with your audience. So thanks for playing along with me on that little mind-bending trip.

Yeah, of course.

So Harris, what I, one of the things that I'm so fascinated by and that I would love to dig in with you a little bit is the role of putting on an event like Story. If you don't mind talking a little bit more about Story and sort of what your goal is in terms of how you make it to be a different experience than any other conference that I've been to. And this is going to end up being like a big, great big advertisement for Story, but really what How do you do that? Because, like you said, most— and what I've experienced is most other conferences are not like this. And it has— it's in my mind, it's about all kinds of little things. What do you think is about— like, what do you think about when you're like, okay, I want to make Story to be, you know, a barnan different from other experiences? What do you focus on?

Oh gosh, is this like I'm supposed to pinpoint the one thing? Because there's no way that's going to happen, I think. I mean, I think it really all comes down to this deeper meaning and purpose behind story. You know, my team here, they give me a hard time because sometimes the first thing I do when I come in, if everyone beats me to the office and I walk in and everyone's here, I often come in and be like, all right guys, are you ready to change the world? And they all laugh. And sometimes they'll be like, yep, let's do it. And I really believe that. And I think that phrase has become so cliché, but I think what makes Story special, and I think why the conference this year was so special, is because we approached it from this mindset and place of we are literally changing the way the world looks. And to kind of break that idea down, you know, even on our podcast each week as I sit down and talk to another creator or storyteller, when you try to get the backstory of how did this begin for you, where did this start, what was that creative spark, And these are people that are telling stories that are experienced by sometimes hundreds of millions of people, whether they are an executive at DreamWorks writing the next children's film or Pixar or they work at Disney World. I mean, if you think about the stories that the next generation is consuming, it is literally changing the way that they see the world. Nicholas Smith, for example, a Disney Imagineer who spoke this year, a story. When you try to get his backstory, it's Yeah, my— he grew up in Texas, lower middle class family. His dad scraped up enough money to take them all to Disney World. And as a middle schooler, he can sit and articulate his experience at Disney World. And now here he is in his, I think, late 20s at Disney World, creating experiences for other little kids who are having the experience that he had in middle school. And those stories are so powerful. They are literally changing people. They are they are helping them reimagine what's possible in the world just because of their experience at a theme park. So knowing that stories are that powerful, if they're changing the way people grow up and the work that they someday do, I don't think it's foolish or outlandish to think that what we're doing at Story each year, the experience that people like you have when they come and experience the conference, if you want to call it that, I think 20 years from now we will be able to look back and see the influence on our culture and in other cultures around the world based on just some of the stories that were told because someone attended and left inspired to do some of their best work. And I love that you used the word superpower earlier, but I really feel like because storytellers are the ones that shape and influence the way the world looks, stories are the foundation that our culture is built upon. I really feel like Storytellers have this superpower, and with great power comes great responsibility. And so I view my role as the leader of the story community to constantly do things that create experiences that keep wonder wide awake in their own life, that keep their imagination running wild, and keep them creating to do their best work ever. And I think if I just focus on that, everything else kind of falls into place. And yeah, we, we really do end up changing the world. It may not be tomorrow. It may not be the entire world, but I think we end up changing parts of the world.

Well, and I think, I mean, I wasn't there before you started creating this experience, but your focus, as you talk about awe and wonder, like I felt that in, in the experience as a part of that. And I do my work because I share that belief. I really, really believe that story and the experience of sharing who we are can absolutely transform the world and move and change the world. And so that was absolutely laced through everything. Awesome. It made it, you know, no, it's kind of funny I'm using this word, but it was kind of a magical experience that way. It was like, I was so excited. For usually the large group sessions when you're going to a conference are just sort of like la la la, and I'm just like getting through it because especially as a presentation coach, I'm so critical. And, and this was, I was so excited to see what you guys made and what's gonna happen now.

And well, we're very hands-on, you know, and some of our presenters aren't fans of that, but You know, to me, to me, it's all about the experience that our attendees have. And so a lot of people talk about the intentionality of Story. And so I, you know, behind the scenes, you know, most attendees don't know this, but all those presenters that are up on stage, they're getting a million emails from me and they have a couple of different calls with me. They said we aren't the conference that just books a speaker and then sends them their itinerary and they show up and talk about whatever they feel like to talk about. Good. You know, our speakers are told, hey, so, you know, a couple months out, hey, you ended up on day 2 in session 2. The reason why is because when you and I first talked on the phone, there was this idea that we were talking about that fit into our theme this year. And it's very important that you show up and talk about that thing that we talked about you talking about, because if you don't, it's going to feel out of place. Because here's what's going on before you, and there's this cool creative element, or this artist that's going to deliver the spoken word piece after you. Um, and, and at Story Conference It literally is a story in my mind. We are beginning a conversation on Thursday morning and we're finishing Friday afternoon with a call back, call to action so that, you know, that creative community can go out and do the stuff that we talked about. And there's this flow and rhythm to it. And I feel like that's those kind of details and caring about that level of intentionality. That's what creates that magic that you're referring to.

Absolutely. When I'm putting on an event, I have the same sort of like control issues. And it's because, you know, sometimes people feel like it runs in the face of like creativity and letting it flow. And it's the same way when you're writing a talk. Like there is, there's a certain amount of structure and intentionality and planning so that you can be in the moment when it happens. But you can't do that without all of the planning and careful, uh, you know, like, yeah, exactly. Where everything is, everything has a purpose.

So yeah, make sure that, and you, and you feel it when it doesn't happen, you know, like the, there was only two moments throughout the entire conference where I felt like things kind of drifted off course a little bit. And in hindsight, when you look back and go, man, how come that session, that moment, or that first half of whatever session didn't feel as strong as the others? You look back and review it. Oh, the speaker got off topic or they showed up and didn't— they didn't do what we discussed them doing. And so, yeah, it was just the lack of intentional— it wasn't a lack of intentional planning. It was a lack of commitment to the plan that we were intentional about.

So, yeah, I'm curious in your— who, what, what were those moments?

You don't have to say who, but those moments, you know, when people were less engaging with their talks, were We are pretty big on making sure we get great presenters. You know, what's interesting is I've even talked to presenters for 2017, and they— people who had initially reached out to us and made us aware of their work, not directly coming to us going, "Hey, will you book me as a speaker for Story 2017?" But just, "Hey, love what you're doing, and, you know, if there's ever anything we can do to be a part of Story, we would love to have that conversation." And then I followed up with some of those people to discuss 2017, and they actually come to me going, actually, you know, now that I came to Story this year, I'm not the best presenter for you because I know my limitations and my strengths and weaknesses, and I'm not at the caliber of the other communicators that you had up on that platform. You know, I think there's a time where sometimes that's true and sometimes it's not, but I do think it speaks to the level of excellence that we pursue and that And that people are able to see that. And these are people that make a living communicating. And they still, even though other people pay them to speak, they feel like they're not ready for the intentionality of, you know, what we— the experience that we try to design a story.

So, so given the world right now versus in 2016, and obviously some things have changed a lot. Do you feel like a particular call for what this year is gonna need, or what we creatives need in 2017 than in 2016?

Yes.

That might be, yeah, where, what do we need right now? What are you thinking about in terms of what this conference will be?

I think we need to be willing to take risks and stop playing it safe. I think we need to let go of our fear and insecurity. I think a lot of us are having conversations about the role that comparison and social media has played in our personal lives with our friendships and relationships and families. But I'm not sure the creative community has yet fully come to an understanding and realization of the role that that's playing in our work and the art that we produce and the stories that we tell. And a lot of us are playing it safe and we need to be pushed out of our comfort zones to tell stories that matter. And all the art that's hanging in museums, all the films that win Oscars, you know, all the stuff that we watch and go, "Oh, I wish my work got that kind of affirmation or won those type of awards." We're not going to get there if we keep playing it safe and following the formulas. And so my hope is that this next year is we get to a point where our curiosity of what might be possible, the curiosity of what if might be so great that we begin to let go of some of the insecurities and fears that get in the way of us going to those places. Mm-hmm.

Um, a lot.

Yeah. Yeah. Cause I really think that's when, I mean, I, again, I keep coming back to that word. It's what I do for a living, but that's when magic happens. I think the magical intersection is when we dance with our fear, take the risk, let go of some of our insecurities and do something that matters that was unexpected. That wasn't safe.

Oh my gosh, awesome. I need to like print that out and just put in front of my face. Stop playing it safe.

Yeah, well, it's everything to do with our fears, right? And the business— we're going to be talking about this a lot just within the Story community in the next 6 months. So you're going to hear a lot more of this probably. But there's the business world loves to talk about this idea of punching fear in the face. That's even become kind of this buzz phrase, I think. Punch fear in the face. Punch fear in the face. Liz Gilbert often talks about how for a creative person, for an artist whose work is tied to their souls and their identity, sometimes to a fault, you know, that would mean that you're punching yourself in the face because you are your fear. And I think the creative life, the life of an artist, the life of a communicator, the life of a storyteller, whatever medium you tell stories through, Fear is— I guess conquering your fear is less about this picture of punching fear in the face and running past it and more grabbing it by the hand and making it a character in your story. I think it's less of a punch in the face and more of a dance. You're going, okay, so that dude that just won an Oscar or that girl whose art ended up in that museum, she did that not because she ignored her fears or punched them in the face, but because she danced with them and she brought it along on the journey. But she kept it in its place and said, said, okay, you know what, you're this voice of fear, you're speaking to me for a reason. There's things I have to, to grow from this. There's, there's things that I have to learn from this. But I'm in charge. So I'm going to bring you along for the journey. I'm going to make you a character in my story. But you don't get to be the star of the show. Yeah, and magical things begin to happen.

I'm such a Liz Gilbert fan. And, you know, as a presentation coach, when I'm working with speakers, or there's a lot of assumption about, well, I'm afraid, and so this must not be what I'm good at, or this must not be— like, it's this thing that other people do who are afraid, you know? And it's like, no, no, no.

My best, my best, uh, talks, my best performances of all time were the times that I had a little bit of nervousness right before I walked on stage.

Well, and there's such a fine line between excitement and nervousness. And so like to be able to re— just massage that into excitement and to reframe that as like, oh my gosh, this is going to be awesome instead of what am I doing? Oh my God.

Yeah, I actually—

things are so close.

Yeah, I think it's a qualification of whether I had a good year or not. I, you know, my growth as a communicator, as a storyteller, to me rises and falls on the opportunities that I say yes to that are outside of my comfort zone. And so if I get to the end of the year and look back and go, wow, everything was super easy this year, I was— I didn't walk on stage nervous a single time, nothing was intimidating. It's like, goodness gracious, I'm playing it way too safe. And so next year it's like, how can I start to say yes to some of the things that, that scare me to death? And it doesn't mean that I'm not capable of those things. They're just new and outside my comfort zone. But that's what stretches and grows me as an artist.

Mm. I love it. Okay, Harris, we are at the point of the show where we share a "this moved me" moment, something that has moved you recently to help keep us as creatives really inspired and also inspiring other people. So do you want— do you want to start or do you want me to start?

Something that keeps creatives inspired? Yeah.

What's moved you recently?

Oh, man. The first thing when you asked me that, that popped into mind was actually an experience happened 3 years ago. Is that recent enough? Sure. So much of my story, you know, hinges on when I went from being just a magician and just a speaker to the leader of a creative community. And I think a lot of it was this shift in how I saw the world when I became a dad. So, you know, 3 years ago, I was traveling the world doing magic shows. I had been there, done that. You know, I— performing magic has taken me to private events all throughout Europe. You know, I've stood at the base of the Eiffel Tower multiple times. I've done I don't know how many dozens of, uh, performances and trips to the UK, seen the castles, and Germany, all the— everything throughout Europe. I've stood at the edge of the Grand Canyon. I've been to Alaska, Hawaii. I've seen the pyramids in Egypt multiple times on tours throughout the Middle East. You know, you walk the Great Wall of China, you see the Taj Mahal, you just kind of get to this point where you're like, okay, I've been there, done that. And it starts to create this, this apathetic view on life. Because in many ways, again, to use the magic analogy, the world had sort of lost its magic. It's like, oh, it's, it's just the Grand Canyon. I've already seen it before. It's just— they're just the pyramids. Like, why is everyone so fascinated by this? And that, that thing that you experience when you grow up as a little kid where everything is so new and fresh and you see magic everywhere, that had been lost. I think I'd kind of forgotten why I'd done magic. And then I was performing a stunt at a Fourth of July event where you breathe fire out of your mouth, which is something I'd done hundreds of times. And I set my face on fire. I made a really stupid mistake and ended up with second-degree burns all over my face and neck and chest. And it was pretty bad. Obviously had a couple of weeks with no shows and was just kind of laying on the couch healing up. I, I could only drink my meals through a straw, barely, because like I could barely move my face and my lips. I couldn't stretch my skin or anything, it was so painful. And around that time, my— I had recently become a dad. My son was about 6 months old, and I specifically remember laying on the couch and watching him as he's like laying on the floor playing with toys, trying to roll over and roll around and get up and crawl and little tiny things like a speck of something, probably dust or something like that, would fall from the ceiling or from a lamp, you know, and it would catch his eye. Or a car would drive down our street and the sun would somehow refract off of something and, you know, send a beam of light through the window and reflect on the ceiling or make a shadow or something like that. And everything just had this little spark in his eyes. I noticed he saw magic in little things that I felt were incredibly mundane. And as he kept growing up, that obviously got greater and greater. You know, we would blow bubbles on the back deck. And to me, I'm like, these are just bubbles. But to Jude, they seem so magical, right? And now we get packages in the mail from Amazon and I like rip the box open. I'm like, Jude, look what we got. This is awesome. And he doesn't care about this cool new gadget I got. He just cares about that stupid box that's lying on the floor. And then I started realizing that to a little kid whose imagination is still being used to create and dream and explore and not worry and imagine all the horrible things that can go wrong— like, we all use our— a lot of people think that imagination is something we stop using as adults. We simply misuse our imaginations. We use them to fear and worry. Worry is a misuse of our imagination. It's not that we stop using it. We just, we imagine negative things instead of what we could create. And that, that whole perspective kind of led me back to asking why I do magic, because I was ready to quit. I'd burned my face. I was getting criticized again by the magic community, like, look at this stupid mistake he made. And when I started asking, why do I do magic? I had this flashback to being a little kid and performing that very first trick for my mom and dad and the look of awe and wonder that were on their faces. And I realized it's that. Like that. That is why I do magic. It's, it's not to trick people. It's not to say, aha, I bet you had no idea how I do that. It's not to create a puzzle or a riddle and give someone the opportunity to solve it. That's not what magic is about. It was about awe and wonder. And that moved me so much that it completely transformed not just my work, not just the way I see the world, but the way that I interact with my friends, the way that I raise my kids. Everything for me now is about this daily battle to keep wonder wide awake and to keep imagination alive and to keep curiosity greater than our fears. And because the world is conspiring against wonder, there is every single day, you know, we take in 5,000 messages and advertisements a day, and it's all trying to create this shallow sense of what life what others want life to be about: transactions, consumerism, wearing the right clothes, driving the right cars. I love nice cars. I love having a nice home. There's nothing wrong with owning nice things as long as they don't own you. But to me, I've discovered that what I do on stage is just a trick, but there is this real magic that is in and through everything. And when that experience moved me to understand what real magic is, I thought, I can't just embody this in my own life. I have to inspire other people in the creative community, other artists, other storytellers to keep this real magic alive through their work as well, which is why I agreed to take on and start Leading Story and why we're doing the work we do today.

So, so important to remember. It's kind of reminding me of a conversation I actually had with Jason Jaeger, probably gosh, I don't know, a few months ago.

Jason's great.

Yeah, he's amazing. And in our conversation, we were talking about slowing life down so that you can see some of those really wondrous things that we miss most of the time because we're just being big, busy adults, you know, and how we are missing it, that there's so much beauty around and so much that should just like knock us off our feet. Feet. And we've gotta just slow down long enough to, yeah, like let those things be significant again.

Well, we're just— we're all distracted, right? Like, the, the heart of why a magic show works is this principle called misdirection.

Yeah.

Which is just a fancy word for distracting someone. And, and everything— everyone thinks and assumes it's as simple as, hey, look over there, right? But misdirection is this complex principle that requires psychology and the power of suggestion and, you know, how our five senses misperceive reality. But as a magician, if I want to deceive you, all I really have to do is just make you look at what I want you to look at. And every single day, this world is screaming at us to look at what they want us to look at. And it's a million different things, right? Everyone's fighting for our attention and we're really just walking around distracted. And the whole time there's, there's real magic all around us. It's right in front of us. We just, we can't see it because we're so distracted by all the things that we are told are important, that we're told are magical, but they're just kind of, they're kind of tricks, right? They're counterfeit magic. So, yeah.

Oh, cool. Okay. That was great. Thank you for sharing.

Sure.

I had not, I did not know that that happened to you.

Yeah.

Really? Yeah.

It was a life, life, life-changing experience. And so I could, you know, we could go on for hours about all the things. When you live life wide awake to wonder, uh, you know, things move you on a regular basis. I cry weekly, I think, about something. My wife gives me a hard time. I cry ever since I became a dad. Like, I cry at every movie now. There's just so many— my emotions are— I'm just so much more in touch with, I think, who I am and what I feel. And I give so much more space to my feelings and emotions now. So I'm moved on a regular basis. But, you know, it's interesting the way you asked that question, because when I think about all of the things recently that have moved me, all the things that move me weekly, they wouldn't be moving me if I had not been moved by that experience 3 years ago, because it was that shift that actually allowed me and made me— it crushed my cynicism and apathy and made it possible for me to be moved, if that makes sense.

Yeah, totally. Ooh, I love that. Cool. Okay, well, my This Moved Me moment is, uh, something that you may already be in tune with, because I have to tell you, I feel like he would be an awesome connection for story. I've been obsessively reading the Blue Baby's Pink story. Have you— are you in the know on this at all, Harris?

Yeah, he's in Atlanta, right?

Yeah.

I can't remember his name exactly.

Brett Trent.

Brett. Yeah, Brett Trent. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we have some mutual friends that have made us aware of his story and blog. And what an incredible idea. Just the way that he went about sharing his story was super unique.

Super unique, right? So it's his Southern coming out story, right? And it's 44 episodes. So he just kind of picked a start date and every day wrote something and eventually recorded these writings. So it's a podcast too. But what I found so moving about the story is how he framed it up. And he said, um, 'If you're gay, this story might not be gay enough, and if you're Christian, this story might not be Christian enough.' I was like, 'Ooh, I love that,' because that's where we all live. We live in the space right between the categories and between the things that—

Expectations.

Yeah, that divide us. And so I was like, 'That's the space that I want to be in.' is that space where it's, it's his story in particular. It's not about any of those categories per se. I mean, it is in a lot of ways also, um, but that middle space, that like giant Venn diagram of who we are as humans, like, yeah, like that's the space that I think is so important for us to hear about and And so I just, especially knowing this was a story that he had hidden for so long, and then the, just the, like, the process of his willingness to say, this is who I am and this is a story I'm gonna tell, I was like, I'm just, I was kind of in awe of it. So I'm actually gonna have him on the show in a few weeks, and I'm so excited to talk to him.

Yeah, yeah, it kind of goes back to what we very started with at the very beginning, right? We're talking about vulnerability and authenticity and integrity, and I think that's why that story resonates because it embodies all of those things, and it is curious because of the risk, you know, it makes other people curious, and for someone to tell their story like that requires their curiosity of what if to be greater than their fear of fitting in with the expectations of this story isn't this enough or this story isn't this enough. So yeah, it's kind of like a magician walking out on stage going, you know, this isn't real, but magic isn't also completely fake. There's this real magic that's kind of in the middle, but it's not what you think it is. It's not what you expect it to be. So it's outside of that safe zone. And again, those are the stories that resonate. Those are the things that move people.

Love it. Oh my gosh, Harris, I've written down so many things. I can't wait to share this with people. Thank you so much for joining me.

You are so welcome.

Diving in.

Yeah, thank you for coming to Story this year. It means a lot. It is a very vibrant community, and you know, it, it only works because of all the people that, you know, join the tribe and come in and come to the conference and all the work shops that we do. And so yeah, I just appreciate your support by participation.

Yeah, no, it's been— I can't— I'm going to stop recording.

Oh, awesome!

Thanks so much, Harris. I'm clapping. Can you hear? I'm clapping. Cool. What a great conversation, and so appreciate his courage and his willingness to invest so much of his time and energy into pulling this community together. And by this community, I mean any one of us, right, who believes in the purpose of their work, that it— that we as creatives and storytellers and speakers and leaders, like, that this work matters and and that it can move and change the world, then you are a part of this community. So I hope you'll check it out. Go to StoryGatherings.com and you can sign up for tickets there. Remember that I'll be there! Oh my gosh, that'd be really cool. Oh, I sounded so Minnesotan right there. It'd be great to see you in Nashville. So if you go, shoot me a little something like on Twitter or Instagram or whatever. @thismovedme. Find me and send me a little note. I would love to— or on Facebook, I don't know, whatever, any one of those places. I would love to meet you and hang out. We could go to a session together or you could come watch me live coach or I could live coach you. Oh my gosh, really cool. So that'd be awesome. Thanks so much, Harris, for joining me on the show. Jazzed to have you. Excited to be a part of this community in an official capacity other than just being a fangirl. For so long. Cool. All right. This moved me. What is moving you? Hopefully this, and you're going to Story Gatherings right now and you're gonna put "this moved me" in the promo code, uh, little box there, and you're gonna get 10% off. That is awesome. Lucky you. That's so great.

Very cool.

Uh, but do it before March 30th. March— May, May, May 31st. Do it before May 31st. May 31st. And you get $100.

Woo!

No, the ticket prices go up by $100 on May 31st. Okay, so do it now. Do it now. Alright, my friends? Great.

Check it in.