238: The Journey Series: Angela Lussier - Embracing Authenticity

Hey movers, welcome back to another awesome episode here on Be Moved. I think it's gonna be awesome. I can say that because it's not really me. I get to share a colleague of mine, another speaker coach who is doing such powerful, amazing work. Her name is Angela Lussier and she is the founder of the Speaker Sisterhood. And I love this concept and this idea so, so much that I was like, we are we're going to talk. I want you to be in the podcast. Let's talk about what all this means and why you believe so strongly in our voices. I mean, I do too, of course, but, but her focus on empowering women and helping them use their voice, I think, is just so important and beautiful. And when I was thinking about our journey series, I know Angela and I had a really great conversation about this idea of authenticity. And authenticity is part of the journey. It's a big stopping point on the journey, and it's not easy to wrap our heads around. And Angela and I took a good crack at it, and I think got somewhere with it. And so I wanted to come around to that conversation again, pull it out of the archives so that you can hear her ideas about this. And I know her business and her approach has evolved even since this conversation that we had quite a while ago, but I know Authenticity and our conversation around authenticity is universal and it's not going anywhere. And so we've got to keep wrapping our heads around this idea and stay on the journey so we can embrace authenticity. So I'm very excited for you to hear more from Angela. Here she is, Angela Lucier. Hey movers, it's Sally Koering Zimney with Be Moved. Let's go create some talks that will move this world. We're gonna talk with amazing speakers, share tips, tricks, resources, and we are going to be moved so that our audience can be moved. This moved me. What is moving you? So I, I don't know, I'm curious from your perspective. Let's start there. Like, why is— for you as a coach, like, why is women your passion? Like, why do you specifically want to help women bring their voices out more?

Well, when I was younger, I felt like I wasn't encouraged to speak up. And in class, if the teacher said, raise your hand if you have a question or raise your hand if you want to answer this question, I would always just look around and hope someone else would speak up because I didn't have the words. I didn't— I just— I wasn't very articulate. I didn't really know what I thought about things. And as I got older, I found that not having a voice would not serve me, especially when I got to my first job after college. Was looking around one day at the people in the staff meeting and noticing the people who spoke up and spoke with confidence were the ones who were most respected and the ones who we listened to and followed. And I thought, oh my gosh, like leaders have a voice. I don't. How, how am I going to become a leader if I can't speak up?. And I looked at the other women who were about my age in the company, and we were all really quiet, but we had another trait in common. We were all really hard workers. And we never talked about this, probably because we didn't know how to talk about it. But I always felt like if I work hard enough, someone will notice and I will get a promotion and I'll become a leader. But it didn't occur to me until that, that point when I looked around my staff meeting and saw these great communicators that What am I going to do when I become a leader if I don't know how to speak? That's, that's going to be a huge barrier. And that was when I decided to go to public speaking training and start building my skills as a speaker. And that was 10 years ago. And when I look around now, now that I've been speaking for a while and I've met a lot of women in business, I've met a lot of women leaders. I see this, this consistency exists that a lot of them are not speaking up and they're hoping that someone will notice them. And they're hoping that if they just work hard enough, that something will change. And I want to be the person who spreads the word that we don't have to keep hoping and wishing that someone notices us. We can use our voice and we can ask for what we want and we can tell the world what we want them to know. And we can share our story with confidence. And that's what will connect us. And that's what will build things. And that's what will get us noticed. And when all of this stuff started to come together for me, that's when I realized, like, I have to do something about this because I figured it out. Out, and now I want to help other women to do the same thing. Woohoo! Oh my God, I just— yes!

Oh, let's just stop there. Perfect.

The end.

The end. We can't sit around and just hope that someone's going to notice us. We have to use our voice. I did this workshop last week in Denver, as you know, and I had this aha moment with the group where I was saying to them, like, leaders are speakers and speakers are leaders and leaders are speakers and speakers are leaders. And this look on their faces, like everybody's kind of head tilted a little bit and they're like, yeah. And this one woman goes, ugh, like she knows it. And yet in her, like in her gut, she just thought, oh, there's something about this that she's resistant to. And it absolutely has to do with vulnerability and really digging deep and being willing to look stupid or fail, I think. What do you think it is? Like, what is the thing that holds us back?

I think it's a combination of so many things, but a big piece of it, I think, is about this notion that we're supposed to be nice. And being nice means being quiet, following the rules, letting other people take the credit and be in the spotlight, and being the supporter who makes sure everything happens, but never being the person who's, you know, sort of saying, "Yeah, I did this." and pushing other people. And that's a humongous problem. And that's completely contradictory to what you need to be if you want to be a leader. And we get stuck in this. And I think it has to do with like the evolution of women in the workplace and now realizing, yeah, we, we, we have our merits and we can go to school and get 1,000 degrees, but we have to use our voice. It's the most important tool we have, but we're never really taught to speak up. And right now I'm reading this amazing book called How to Say It for Women written by Dr. Phyllis Mendel. And the early 2000s. And a lot of her work was about weak language and how when women show up to meetings, they'll often say, well, I mean, I kind of— I don't really think I agree with you. I kind of feel like we should be doing it this way. And they'll use upspeak. They'll use words like I feel or I think. And they'll contrive their message instead of just saying, that's not the right thing to do, which is how a lot of men speak. And so there's this thing of we need to learn how to use our voice, and we also need to learn how to speak with power. And so there's like so many things that we as women just don't get. And I don't know why exactly that is, but I want to fix it really badly, especially right now.

Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah. I mean, right now. Yeah.

I'm with you.

OK, so what do we do? Like, when you're working with women, what are some of the key things that you try instill in them in a really practical way, aside from like, you know, cheering them on and making sure they understand that they're valued and capable and like, that's necessary too. But what else, what else are you sharing with them?

Well, first they have to know they're not alone because I think there's this like sense that everyone else is good at public speaking except for me. Like they all know how to do it and they're lucky they were born that way and I suck because I don't know how to. And once, once I get women together in a room and I ask them, you know, what do you want to learn about public speaking? What stops you from doing it now? That's when it's time to have an honest conversation about what's getting in the way. And so many of them say things like, I feel sick when I have to say my opinions. I'm afraid people won't like me. I don't even know how to say my, my point of view because no one's ever given me that chance. The men in my family have always put down the women when we speak up. And you, when you sit in a room with 10 or 20 women who are saying these things, it's so powerful because you realize, oh my God, I am not alone. And when you have that sense of community and like that tribal togetherness, it helps so much with feeling like you're part of something. So that's a starting point is to just have a conversation about how it feels when you're going to say something. And then the second piece is to feel that fear, like to allow yourself to actually sit with it and see where it is in your body. Like what's coming up? Is it, is it in your chest? Is it in your stomach? Is it giving you a headache? And just allow yourself to feel it, because I think we often try to run away from it so much that we're putting more energy into, like, not having the feeling than just allowing it so we can move through it. Mm-hmm. And then public speaking, I think, is so much about being honest and just saying what's true for you. So I'll ask women who have never given a speech before to just get up in front of the room and talk about what it's like. Not talk about physics, don't tell me about your childhood, just tell me about what it's like to be standing in front of the room. And then they have to tap into their body and they have to tap into their thoughts. And it's incredible because once they move through that in the first 30 seconds or so, then they feel better and they can start talking about other things that is on their mind. And I find that that's a really good way to get started.

Mm, that's got to be so powerful, Angela.

It is. It's, it's like the most heart, like heartwarming and fulfilling work I've ever done to watch that transformation.

So your story, I think, is really, really important to share because it's at the core of who you are and like your mission and what you do as you're working with women. So you tell people a little bit about kind of how you got to the point where you are a speaking coach, Angela.

Yeah, that's still really weird to hear because as I mentioned, when I was a teenager, I never spoke. And the reason for that was because I have been 6 feet tall since I was 12 years old. And you might remember when you were 12 years old, you probably weren't that hot— that tall. You're probably like 5, 5 feet tall. And all the boys were really short because they hadn't hit puberty yet. So imagine, let's this giant walking in the hallways at school being bullied. And, and I was, I was bullied for it all the time. I think especially being a girl, I just really stood out. So I was called names like ogre and green giant, and I had to wear like my, my brother's clothes because they just didn't make pants for tall girls at that time. And it was, it made me feel really weird and left out and like I was an alien and why couldn't I just be like everybody else. And instead of standing up for myself because I just didn't feel like I had those tools, I hid. And I felt like being a wallflower was a better option because there were less chances that people would make fun of me. And that was an amazing survival mechanism all through high school, all through college. And as I said, when I got to my first job, I looked around and I said, "Oh no, now I have to address this public speaking thing." And it was a terrifying observation and a really important decision I made when I was, you know, 23, 24, realizing I could stay where I am for I can stay in this position forever and never speak up, or I can take this risk and try to build communication skills and someday be a leader. And that's a really big decision to make when you're just a couple of years out of college and you don't really know anything about anything. But I did know one thing, and that was that communication skills are really important. And so I went to Toastmasters for 5 years, and I remember the first club I joined. I walked in the door. There were like 10 people sitting in this little conference room at a local Chamber of They were all like 20 or 30 years older than me, and they were so nice and friendly, and they welcomed me like I was at my grandparents' house hanging out with some really cool older people. And, and what I did was I never spoke. I went to these meetings and I watched other people give speeches, but I never said a word. And in my mind, I was learning public speaking. So I'm like, hey, I'm here. I'm watching people give speeches. I'm taking notes. I'm learning what you're supposed to do and not do. I'm becoming a great speaker. And after 6 months, the president came up to me and said, "So we noticed you haven't given a speech yet and we'd like to put you on the schedule for the next meeting." And I was like, "Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, I'm not ready." And the next thing he said to me changed my life forever. And I think about it all the time. He said, "You'll never be ready. You just have to start." And he was absolutely right. And even though he was right, I was terrified. I cried the whole next week, barely slept. And all I had to do is give a 4-minute speech about my job. And you would think he was asking me to like, you know, write, write a movie and recite it, memorize it. So I got to that next meeting, I gave the speech and my knees were shaking. My face was bright red. I was so hot. And I just I read the whole speech word for word. I never looked up once. And at the end, I put my paper down, I looked up, and everyone did like the slow clap.

Was it like genuine pride? Like, you did it, you made it through. Or was it more like confused slow clap?

No, I think they were genuinely like proud of me because I was the kid in the club who was too scared and I finally did it. And they were my grandparents, basically. So They were just proud of me. And even though it was the most warm and welcoming environment, it was still one of the biggest days of my life because I did the thing I never thought I could do. And for years after that, I went to the meetings, signed up and gave speeches, cried on the way to almost every single one, you know, pulled my car over so many times going, what are you doing right now? You can't go give a speech.

Who the hell do you think you are?

And like, Okay, just go to the meeting. And you know, so many pep talks. And I was in Toastmasters for 5 years. I became the president of my club and a district officer and won lots of awards and started to learn that, wow, I actually could be a speaker. It's really about learning a skill and, and really focusing on it. And in 2009, I left my job and started a business as a career consultant and had no money for marketing. I was like, okay, what am I going to do to not go back to work? And make this happen. And I decided to do free workshops at local libraries. And that was a humongous launchpad for becoming a professional speaker without realizing it. I just did so many workshops around at Rotary clubs and chambers and, you know, middle schools and unemployment groups and colleges. And that— I did hundreds and hundreds of talks my first year in business. I wrote my first book called The Anti-Resume Revolution. I did a TEDx talk in Washington, D.C. about reinventing work. And before I knew it, I was known as a speaker because I was speaking all the time. And my phone started ringing and people started asking me how much I charged, which was shocking because I was like, oh, I can make money doing this. I had no idea. And I did that for 7 years, speaking, coaching, writing books, running events. And just earlier this year, I started to feel like I wanted more. I wanted to do something different. I wanted to stand for something else. And one night I sat down and I asked myself 3 questions. One question was, what am I good at? The second one question was, what, where have I been most successful? And the third question was, what do people always ask me about? And I just journaled for hours and drank like 120 cups of coffee and just like, I think I filled like 3 journals and I went back through everything I wrote and the answers to these 3 questions. And I found one thing that was consistent among all 3 lists and it was public speaking. I was like, oh my God, who knew? I didn't see that coming.

I love the story. And I, I think it's really important and like kind of spectacular because When I think about where it started, like way, way, way back there when you realized, "Oh crap, I should probably figure this out." This isn't what you were imagining for yourself, of course, but like what made you— I mean, the difference between you and anybody else who's afraid of public speaking is that you showed up to a Toastmasters meeting.

Right? Yeah. Yeah.

You know, I mean, not to say that you also don't have like all these wonderful skills and some natural ability that comes into play, but you, you showed up and so many people don't.

I have a really weird comment to make about that. Yeah, I don't, I don't know how it's going to sound, but I'm just going to throw it out there. Go for it. Ever since I was like 5 years old, I had this this feeling inside of me like I needed to do something really important. And sometimes on the weekends as a kid, like 8, 9, 10 years old, if I had some free time, I would like go and like rake a pile of leaves and lie down in the leaves and go, what's the important thing I'm going to do? Or like lie on my bed in the winter and watch the snowfall and think about important things. Like, it was so funny because I didn't even know what it meant. I was like, what's the— do I want to be the first woman president? You know what I would always like—

it could be, Angela, still It still could happen. It still could happen.

And I actually did say that to myself all the time, not even really knowing what the president did, but just knowing that's an important job. I should do that. So when I got to that first job after college and I realized like communication skills would be the barrier to doing something important, it just seemed like a no-brainer. I don't even know what that means, but it just was like, I have to because I have this mission. I'm on a really important mission. Of some kind, of some kind, with no details whatsoever.

No, but I, I love it. And I do think that that distinction— I mean, there was something in you that said, I need to do this. Um, and it just has me reflecting on all of the people I work with, men and women, and I'm sure all the people you work with, and that, like, how to get in that mindset that there's important work for you. Yes, you. Like, it's— because I have that conversation over and over again, people saying, well, who am I? Who am I to, you know, stand up? And like, why would somebody want to listen to me? And obviously there's some really important, like, worthiness questions questions that come in here. Like, let's bring in Brené and talk to Brené Brown about like what's really at play in that. But I think there's also something really human there and common in— I think sadly so much more present in women. Have you encountered that?

Absolutely. Yeah, I hear that every day. And I heard a great comment from one of my mentors earlier this year that I think I think helps to address that issue of like, who am I to be telling people what to do or to sound like I'm an expert on anything? And her point was, be the thought leader of your own experiences because you can own that every day of the week. And don't try to be someone you're not. And I think that is such amazing advice because it's exactly what the best speakers do, is they get on stage and they tell their stories and they share their point of view on any given subject. And then you leave the rest for somebody else. And if you can just focus on that on stage and own the things you know well and the things that have actually happened to you in your life, that question of who am I starts to go away.

Well, and so this woman I was working with last week, we were just working on some basic, like, persuasive tenets and, and And the sort of quest in front of her was to write this like very short persuasive talk on a topic. And she wanted to write or wanted to speak about scuba diving. So she, because she herself has become like a scuba diving expert and like she's so into it. But part of her story was the fact that she was terrified of it. Kind of reminds me of you and public speaking. And she was saying like, I mean, who am I to come in and talk about the power of scuba diving and how it's like connected to her to the planet? And like just some really beautiful things came out of it. And I said, oh my gosh, you are the exact right person to do that because of your story. Like if, like, I don't know, Jacques Cousteau, is he a scuba diver? I don't know. He's an explorer.

He does something in the water.

Something in the water. If it was Jacques Cousteau, came in and said, "We all need to go scuba diving because there's a whole world out there," I'd be like, "Okay, we're really different and probably not, but thanks. You know, like, great idea. Cheering you on from afar." But yeah, like, your life and my life, too different, right? But having her get up and say, like, "I was so terrified," and bringing us to that first moment of when she was so scared. And then the moment where she fell in love with the ocean, I was like, that— now that's something I would be willing to do because my experience resonates with yours, and that sounds like something that might happen to me. So that's what I want to do. Like, we don't seem so different. How about we do that?

Yeah, I love it. Yeah, that's great. I want to share a story about the moment when I decided to make my speaking work for women versus for anybody.

Yeah, that'd be great, because I really—

I had never done that before. When I was doing career and business coaching, it was for men and women, and I was happy to help everyone equally. And when the idea came to work on public speaking training in terms of helping people to become paid speakers and also how to build better presentations, all of a sudden this little idea sort of like wiggled in one night of like, what if I just did it for women? And immediately I panicked. I got so hot and I started to feel like, no, no, no, no, I can't do that. I can't do that. And then I remembered that whenever I feel resistance like that, it's because it's important to me and there's something to explore there. And so I was like, what is this about? And I went to bed that night. I woke up the next morning and I said, I know, I know what's causing me to feel some fear around it. And that's that for the longest time, I've always thought of myself as a tomboy. And I don't think I'm feminine enough to be a leader for women. And I had that thought and was like, okay, this is really scary. And so I asked some of my friends, and it was like, it was really funny. You would have thought I was gonna propose marriage to them. I was like, can you guys go out to dinner? I have a really important question to ask you. And like, at dinner I had like 3 glasses of wine. Like, they're like, were you gonna ask ask us something. I'm like, yeah, I'm getting there.

Shut up.

Stop it. We're going to talk about it really soon. And then like when dessert comes, they're like, what is your deal? You're like sweating. And I finally was like, okay, I want to build this thing for women and it's about public speaking. And I just, I'm afraid that I'm not the right person to do it because I'm not feminine enough. 'What do you think?' And they looked at me like, 'Is that the question? Are you serious?' I'm like, 'Yeah.' That's— they're like, 'Of course you're feminine enough.

What are you talking about?

You're actually the perfect person to do this.' I was like, 'Okay, well, maybe you guys don't know me well enough,' even though they'd known me my whole life.

Like, 'I'm gonna ask some other people.' Oh, that's so That's so resonant though, and so human. And I love that you reached out to your friends and like brought them into that because we can't see ourselves well in those moments. We need each other.

Yeah, absolutely.

This is so fun. I want to keep going.

Okay.

Okay.

Just to finish that story, I did talk to some other women I knew who I met in the last couple of years in the business community, and I asked them if they thought I was feminine enough, and they're all like, girl, go do your thing. Stop it. Chill out.

Right, right. Like, why? Why are we torturing ourselves with these questions that are just not helping? We're just getting in our own way.

Yeah, I don't— you know, I think there are so many beliefs and stories we create when we're growing up, and we don't realize what kind of power they have over us until the moment comes when we have to address them. And they're just sort of living under the surface until that moment comes when you want to do something that makes, makes you sort of question whether or not that belief or story is true. And then it gets really scary. Yeah, I think that's happening a lot.

Speaking it, man, it's very resonant about just, I think, where we are. But, you know, if we were having this conversation had this conversation several years ago, I think we'd be in the same place. So it's— and I just really hope years from now we've moved beyond this idea that we somehow don't belong in the speaker's circle, that we somehow don't have a right, the same right to be an influencer. So I've been thinking a lot about that in terms of who I have invited into my life to influence me and do I— have I invited enough women in? Like even in terms of like social media, who are the voices that I'm listening to and following? And it's interesting, you know, as you're building a business, I'm sure you know about this, there's so many influencers out there who are paving the way and are teaching along the way, and there's so few women, um, and it's disheartening. But it's not because they're not out there, I don't think. I think it's because they haven't like elbowed their way in. And so as a woman, like, I just want to make more room for them, and I want to find them. And the same is true for a speaker lineup up. Like, I went to a conference in October, and there was a handful of female speakers, but it was ridiculous to me that the, like, main stage speakers were— it was so, like, heavily male. Like, 9 out of 10 were men. And I just thought, this isn't okay, you know? And they were all amazing, Like, I was excited to hear from all of them, but it was not— it was not okay. And so I wanted to— I let the conference organizers know and I said, "I applaud what you've done, but you have to set a higher bar for yourself in terms of like gender equity in this." Yeah.

No, absolutely. And I realize that there's a much bigger element to the work that I'm doing and the work that you're doing, and that's that we're creating role models for the next generation.

Yeah.

We— our kids, our nieces, nephews, our neighbors, they need to see strong women out up there on stage speaking their mind, telling the truth. That's so important. And I don't remember there being many of those when I was a kid. And when we look at pop culture icons, I don't feel like there are many people that we can really say, we want our daughters following what she's doing. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, okay, well, we're on it. You and me, we're going to do it, Angela.

That's right. No big deal. No big deal.

We got this. You and me and hopefully everybody who's listening and we're going to make it happen.

That's right.

It starts now. Great. Pretty soon we'll be able to check that one off, right?

Totally.

That's how it works.

It's like 6 to 10 months.

6 to 10 month plan. 90 days. 90 days.

Like, you can do it.

Good.

All right.

Okay. So as you know, Angela, it's time for a This Moved Me moment. That moment in the show where we share something that's moved us recently and why. And I've got like so many swimming through my head. So I'm wondering if you want to go. Can you start?

Yeah, I can.

Okay, go for it.

Last week I was invited to a friend's house who was doing a viewing of a film made by her friend's mother about her mother's passing. So basically, this was a 30-minute documentary about a woman in her 90s and the last, like, 10 years of her life. And, and they wanted me to come to give them ideas on where it could be distributed or marketed. And I was like, okay, that sounds fun. And we went over there, sat down, started watching this film, and I, in the first 2 minutes, I fell in love with this woman who everyone calls Graham because was at 89 years old, her husband passed away. And she— the day after the funeral, she decided she wanted to start running. And she was— she had never exercised in her life. She gave birth to 5 kids, was a waitress who just kind of worked to take care of the kids, keep the house going, but never took time for herself. So she started running. And not only did she start running, but she started running in races and running in the Senior Olympics and like running.

I didn't even know they had a Senior Olympics. How awesome is that?

Me neither. And in her mid-90s, she was still running. And she started to be— she started rowing, like, you know, like in those big— yeah. And she was practically blind and learning how to row and still running. And just such an incredible spirit and someone who never said, oh, I'm too old for that, or it's too late for me to try that. I was just so inspired by her because she never gave up. And at the end of the film, you see her on her last day of life, and she's just in great spirits, and she just wants to spread that message of, like, "Go do your thing." And I'm crying so hard, and I'm sitting there going, "I just wanted to come over and help my friend to market this film, and now I'm, like, in love with this woman." And I just totally loved her spirit, and I wanted everyone on the planet to see it because it's so important to remember there, it's never too late. And you know, this concept of being a late bloomer is such BS because it tells people, oh, you're too late to go do the thing you love to do or to make a change because you can do it anytime. And I just left there feeling so moved and like, okay, now I want to start another revolution.

There's so many. Yeah, that's great.

I know.

There's no such thing as too late.

Ah, I love it. Yeah.

Hey everybody, thanks so much for listening along with us on the Journey series. I am loving bringing back up these incredible conversations, some of them I had years ago and they're just buried in a pile that is way too big of other great conversations. But I thought, oh my gosh, as we are really being challenged in the journey right now, I wanted to just super serve you with inspiration, ahas, and all kinds of good stuff. So, uh, the best of the best are coming to you in this journey series. It's gonna It's so good. I hope you're loving it. I hope you're feeling it. And I have for you a quick workbook that I would love for you to go download. It's kind of like a study guide for you as you're walking through this. So you can go to bmoove.com/journey and download this beautiful study guide with some of the key inspiration as we move along, a way for you to capture your ahas the quotes that have jumped out at you, and how you're going to apply these to your own journey. Because really, that's what it's all about. Okay? I'm here to empower you, to continue to push you out front so that as you are moving along on this journey, you are doing the big important work. And just reminding yourself, the journey is the there. That's what we're— that's our job right now is to just be on the journey. So I hope these conversations help you with that. We've got some— another one coming up for you that's gonna be fabulous. And I know that because they're all fabulous. Yes? All right. This moved me. What's moving you? I can't wait to hear. Hit subscribe so that you do not miss an episode as we stay on the journey together. Reach out on all the socials. See you next time!