274: How to Turn Your Audience into Raving Fans - with David Scott

Do you wanna build an audience of raving fans? Like people who are so jazzed to hear from you every single time you open your mouth? Of course we do. And on the show today, I'm bringing in author, stage speaker, marketer, David Meerman Scott to talk with us about how we can really take our audience from audience to raving fans. Hey movers, it's Sally Koering Zimney with Be Moved. Let's go create some talks that will move this world. We're going to talk with amazing speakers, share tips, tricks, resources, and we are going to be moved so that our audience can be moved. This moved me. What is moving you?

This moved me.

Hey everybody, my name is Sally Koering Zimney. I am your virtual speaker coach. Welcome back to This Moved Me. I empower purpose-driven entrepreneurs and changemakers and coaches like you to leverage the power of speaking on behalf of your business so that you can grow your audience, grow your revenue, and grow your impact. On the show today, I have with me an interview that I did with David Meerman Scott. Now here's what's funny about this interview.

You guys.

I did it in January of 2020. That was a long time ago, like a whole world ago. We had no idea what was coming. I was super excited about that conversation and we were gonna share it in March of 2020. Remember what happened in March of 2020? Yeah, the world changed. And this conversation, a, a part of it is about David's absolutely amazing approach as a stage speaker. And so part of me was like, I think we got to save this till we're back out in front live with people. So I waited and I waited and I waited. So here we are. I think we're on the precipice. We're going to start coming back out front. So there's part of this conversation that you're gonna hear from David about how he just wowed on some of the biggest stages. He is a Tony Robbins speaker. He speaks in front of, in huge stadiums with 10,000+ people. I mean, this guy knows how to work a room and leverage the power of that speaking. Now, the entirety of this conversation exists over in Movers U, so it's just for my students, but I pulled out some of it for you here on the podcast. So you're gonna hear a little bit about his speaking, but really the core of this conversation is about David's book called Fanocracy and about how we can take advantage of this connection that we get to have with people when we step out front and how to turn it from more than just like audience and speaker and turn it into fandom. How do you create a fandom? Because that is some powerful growth there. And part of what we do as speakers is we want to grow our audience and grow our impact. And so David's insights here about how to create raving fans, I think is really important for us as we are scaling our business and growing our impact. So, I'm really excited for you to hear from him on this. I've been sitting on this conversation for so long, and I cannot wait for you to hear his insights. Here he is, David Meerman Scott.

So let's talk about your book.

Yeah, thank you.

And because that's what you've been traveling the world recently talking about. Your book Fanocracy that you wrote with your daughter.

Yeah, my daughter Reiko, she's now 26 years old.

Especially knowing that it's speakers who are listening to this podcast or people who speak, a lot of thought leaders, a lot of people who have a message and a movement and a mission that they are on. This is really, really important information for us to build an audience and a fan base. This is what the book is all about.

Yes, absolutely right. So yeah, so I mentioned earlier, I'm a massive fan of the Grateful Dead, a massive fan of live music. My daughter Reiko is a huge fan of Harry Potter, read every book multiple times, seen every movie multiple times. She wrote an 85,000-word alternative ending to the series where Draco Malfoy is a spy for the Order of the Phoenix and put that on a fan fiction site that's been downloaded thousands of times. And commented on hundreds of times. So we were both massive geeks about the things that we love, you know, live music and Harry Potter. And our thesis in the book was that, that organizations of all kinds, or even thought leaders, can create fans just like entertainers, just like Harry Potter and the Grateful Dead. And we spent 5 years researching this idea. And the answer is absolutely positively yes. Anybody can develop fans. Any organization can develop fans. Any person can develop fans. And what it's about is a true human connection. One of the things that we really enjoy digging into is the idea of neuroscience around fandom, of how people, how and why people become fans is actually hardwired into our brains as humans because we have a deep-seated need to be a part of a tribe of people because within our own tribe we're safe. And when we're not within our own tribe, we feel vulnerable and we sense danger. So what the bottom line to this idea of fandom is that when you're part of your tribe, if I'm at a Grateful Dead show and Harry's, uh, and Reiko is speaking with her friends who are part of Harry Potter, who are interested in Harry Potter as well, you're in a safe place with members of your tribe. So what that means is that any organization, if they're building a tribe of people, can develop strong emotional connections. Because that is how we humans are built. And it's, it's just a fascinating, fascinating topic. We found examples of all kinds of different organizations and people, nonprofits and government agencies and software companies. And one of my favorite examples is an auto insurance company, which is a product that every category that everybody hates, everybody hates auto insurance. Hagerty Insurance. They specialize in classic car auto insurance. They have millions of fans. They go to hundreds of classic car shows a year in North America. They have a booth there and they're educating people about classic cars. They have a YouTube channel with over a million subscribers. They have a driver's club with 650,000 members that the members can connect with other members. So they've built a tribe of people who are collectors of classic cars. And they've built it around their organization that happens to insure classic cars. They're now the largest classic car insurance company in the world, and they'll grow by 200,000 new customers this year. Double-digit growth every year since their inception in a category that everybody hates because they've built it on fandom.

So what does that look like when you think about us as speakers? And oftentimes you're, you're, you're building your brand and your audience around an idea. And yet you, the person, you are the source of connection. And you know, the part that I'm leaning into and love so much is the part about the emotional connection.

Yeah.

Because when we're speaking, that's the great opportunity that we have is to create an emotional experience for us. As speakers. So these worlds colliding for you as a speaker and as an expert on creating your fan base from a marketing perspective, how do these come together for you?

So, so what's interesting to me about this is that this idea of human connection is, is very, very important. It's actually an essential element of the idea of developing fans. And, and again, I mentioned earlier, but I'll mention it again. It's hardwired into us as humans. So it's a non-negotiable thing. So here, here's what this means outside of the actual speaking itself. What it means is that you show up early to your event and you make sure you do a good job. That's a given that you'll do a good job on the stage. But then afterwards, you don't do what so many speakers do, especially the high-end professional speakers, is they finish their talk and they run to the airport. Because you're not having a personal human connection. You're not making those people a part of your tribe. Better yet, stick around as long as you possibly can. At a minimum, what I try to do, I mean, there's, there's been a few times I can't if I book two things in a row, but that's pretty rare. At a minimum, what I'll do is I'll get off the stage and then hopefully there's a break right after I'm done and I'll hang by the stage. For as long as I can meeting people, saying hello, taking selfies, trading business cards, whatever it is. And frequently there's so many people that we, you know, we get kicked out because the event's gonna start again and I gotta go somewhere else. I stay around for the break, you know, the coffee break. I stay around for the cocktail party. I stay around for the dinner. If I can, I'll go to the breakfast the next morning. And there are very few speakers who do that, you know, at least at the level that I'm at of of my keynotes and so on. Most speakers who share the stages that I work will run away, you know, they're running to the airport to go home or to the next engagement. So that's really important. Another thing that's really important is right when you get off the stage, immediately after you've had a chance to meet people, is to go into the social networks and reply to every single person. Who has taken the time to mention you in social media while you were speaking. You know, people who posted photographs of you, people who mentioned you, people who shared one of your thoughts or your ideas. And, you know, on Thursday night, I got off the stage at some— I don't remember exactly when it was, call it 9 o'clock. I was in the room until 10:30. It was an hour and a half of meeting people and taking selfies. An hour and a half. And then after I was done with that, in my room, It was another hour to answer everybody on social media. 2.5 hours is longer than I was on the stage. I was on the stage for 2 hours. 2.5 hours, more like probably 3 hours to engage. I tried to engage with every single person who engaged with me, either in person or on social networks. That takes a lot of time. That's not part of your job description, but it is a way that you can grow fans. Because you can develop a connection with every single person who took the time to either want to say hello to you personally or took the time to share something about you in their social networking feeds.

I don't think you can underestimate the power of that. And like you said, I think it's just a matter of time and us recognizing it as part of the job, even though it's— you're, you're done speaking, you're done, your job is done, you've done what you needed to do to take your paycheck and go. And yet going the extra mile on that is how you go from people appreciating you to being a fan, right?

That's exactly right. And every one of those people are people who can support you for years or decades. They can buy, you know, every book you publish. They can recommend you to the conferences that they go to. I mean, and, and that's, that's what's allowed me to work 30 or 40 or 50 stages every single year for 13 years without ever having to pitch.

I think You know, when I think about where I fall on my face on this stuff is building time and space into my calendar for these things that aren't— they're not calendar things necessarily, and yet they're so essential and important. I mean, I've got in the corner of my office stacks of gifts that I have been intending to send to my students that took my course this fall and I've done, it just is taking forever. And I'm like, Sally, this has to be a priority. If I want people to continue to, they love the course and that emotional connection, it's those little things. It's the surprise and delight going above and beyond. Not just, not just on the technical thing, but it's like all these other things.

Yeah, no, so that's really important. I'll give you another thing that was surprising to us that came out of our research into the idea of fandom and fanocracy. So the book is Fanocracy: Turning Fans into Customers and Customers into Fans. And there's all sorts of ideas for how any organization or any speaker can grow fans. We interviewed a bunch of, you know, rock stars, for example, on how they build fans. And there's stuff in there about other artists, comic book writers, and video game designers, and so on. Lots of cool stuff for all of us who are in the speaking game to build fans. But one thing that was surprising to me that we learned, which was really interesting, is we— and I mentioned this briefly earlier, but we really wanted to dig into the neuroscience of fandom, what's going on in our brains. And this idea of being a part of a tribe is really important. But there's another concept that I first learned from Nick Morgan, our mutual friend. And Nick—

Love Nick.

Yeah, Nick shared this idea from a neuroscience— neuroscientist named Edward T. Hall around the different levels of how close you are to another human being. And the more power— the more— the closer you get to someone, the more powerful the human connection. And there's, there's what's called public space, which is further than about 12 feet away. And our brains, our brains know people who are that are far— that are that far away. We know they're there, but we don't actively track them. Inside of about 12 feet, our brains begin to track everybody who's within 12 feet of us. And so when we walk into a room, our brains track those people. And even closer, within 4 feet approximately, is called personal space. That's cocktail party distance. So the closer you get to someone, the more powerful the human connection. And if it's a positive connection, somebody who's a part of your tribe, someone at the same conference, for example, somebody at a Grateful Dead show, for example, part of your tribe, that's a very positive human connection. If it's not part of your tribe, you're in a crowded elevator, crowded subway car, you get in, you go into a party, you don't know anyone yet at that party, or, you know, oh my God, none of my friends are here. That can be a negative human emotion. That's hardwired into us because we're, we're programmed to be safe when we're in our tribe and to feel danger if we're not in our tribe. So what that means is that, as I mentioned earlier, the idea of sticking around and being there for the cocktail party is really powerful for building fans because you get into people's personal space in a comfortable way. They then see you, get to know you, and then their brains tell them that you are part of their tribe, and that builds fans. But there's another concept in neuroscience that is really interesting. It's the concept of mirror neurons. And which— oh, you know about mirror neurons.

I do, yeah.

The idea that when you see somebody do something, your brain will sometimes fire as if you're doing it yourself, which I'll demonstrate with this lemon. So if I take a bite of the lemon, I mean, gosh, it makes my eyes close and my eyes water. My mouth puckers up and my saliva starts to go and I mean, it's really powerful to bite into a lemon, right? And so I'm— my brain's firing. I'm here, I'm feeling that, I'm tasting that. But you're probably tasting a little bit too because your brain is—

Yeah, right back here.

It's weird, right? So your brain is firing too. So here's what this means for speakers who want to build fans. What it means is that video and audio are incredibly powerful tools to share your ideas to the world. Video and audio specifically cropped is exactly as we're doing right now within about 4 feet, within about cocktail party distance. Our intellectually, we know that you and I are on video and that everyone watching in knows that intellectually that we're on video, but their brains tell them that they're actually together with us in our personal space.

Yeah.

Which is exactly why you feel, you know, personally a movie star, but you don't, you've never met them. They're an image on a screen and you intellectually know they're an image on your screen, but your brain tells you, you know, that movie star. So for us as speakers, the more we can make use of video and audio cropped as if you're 4 feet away, looking at the camera directly, speaking into it, talking to people, that's incredibly powerful stuff. The humble selfie taken with fans after one of your speeches. You know, people say the selfie is frivolous and, you know, I've seen a lot of speakers reluctantly pose for selfies, but posting those selfies yourself, really powerful because you're telling the rest of the world through your social media feeds that there are lots of people who are aligned with you. There are lots of people who are in your personal space. There's lots of people who, as they look at those selfies, say, oh, I'm in that per— their brains tell them I'm in their personal space too. I'm connected with this person. They're part of my tribe, even though intellectually they know it's a picture. So we can all use this, this idea of video and audio cropped as if we're 4 feet away looking directly at the camera to a really powerful effect.

I love that. Yeah. And I think storytelling is this really incredibly powerful act. Of create— like firing those mirror neurons again and again and again. Because as soon as our audience can see it in their own brains and they're feeling what we felt in that moment, it's just this like superpower connection point.

Yeah.

And I think it's, it's so magical because you can feel it. The energy in the room changes. It's It's really amazing. So I love, I love you've got tons of great strategies and tips and really specific things that people can be doing and I need to be doing all these things better myself. So this is all really great reminders for me and congratulations on the huge success of this book.

Thank you.

I'm personally really jazzed about it. So thank you so much for being on the show and sharing your, Insight, your Tony Robbins energy, the rule-breaking, that's— I just want everybody to go break some rules and go get your Fanocracy book.

Thank you. Thanks, Sally. I really appreciate you having me on. To learn more about Fanocracy, we've got a cool website at www.fanocracy.com. I'm DM Scott, DM Scott, and thank you, Sally, for having me on.

Thanks for joining us on the show. I hope you enjoyed that conversation with David Meerman Scott. All the links to his books are over in the show notes. And in fact, I want to point out that since David and I had this initial conversation, not only have we been dealing with a pandemic, but he wrote another book. And this book is so applicable to all of us. It is called Stand Out Virtual. Events. And as you heard on the show, David doesn't just do speaking, he like does it. And so I am so excited. I haven't even had a chance to read this book yet. It just came out and I'm recording this before I even get my hands on it, but I'm really excited to hear his insights because he's not going to just do what you do in person and just do it in front of a camera. He's really talking about how to leverage the art form of virtual speaking and virtual events. So that's gonna be awesome. I'll include notes to all of that over in the show notes. You can find it all at bemoove.com. All right, my friends, this moved me. What is moving you?

I can't wait to hear. See y'all next week.