At 32, this recruiter scaled a profitable business. Here are her biggest lessons….

Hey guys, welcome back to yet another episode of Top Billers Toolkit, where me and my twin brother interview top billers from all around the globe to unlock the secrets to their success. Today's guest is Lauren Winderbank. At just 32 years old, Lauren has already managed to scale a profitable recruitment company. In today's episode, Lauren's going to be talking us through how she started on her own with a newborn baby and a 1-year-old during COVID yet she still managed to progress and expand her business. She's gonna be talking us through the hiring process, which hires she made at specific points in time, and also which hires had the most significant impact on her business. We're gonna be talking about some of the lessons that Lauren has learned along the way, and also some of the mistakes which in hindsight she would've done completely differently to make the scaling process a lot smoother. If you are a solo recruiter and you're looking to scale, or you have a small team, this is gonna be an extremely valuable episode.

So guys, grab a cup of coffee or a glass of wine depending on when you're listening to this, and let's get into it, shall we? Hello, Lauren, how are you?

Hi, I'm Ben. Thanks for having me on.

Yeah, thank you for joining us, Lauren. Um, I've been following your journey online. I've seen you on a few podcasts. Um, I know, well, you're good at many, many things, but one of the things that I know you're an expert at is, uh, delegating systems and processes and being able to step away from your business. And that's one thing I know a lot of recruiters struggle with. So I wanted to bring you on to discuss that amongst other things. But thank you for joining us today.

Really appreciate it.

So we always start the podcast with this question. It's a bit of a tradition now. What's the number one tool in your toolkit, whether it be a mindset, a strategy, or a piece of software? Lauren, what do you think?

I definitely think in terms of mindset, which is like served me well— sorry— as a corporate recruiter and then as, you know, having my own business is keeping a long-term mindset. So when you transition from being employed to, you know, doing your own thing, you can easily fall into a trap of, you know, panic and changing the way that you work just because no one's paying your bills anymore, essentially. So I've tried I do my best to really keep that sort of long-term mindset in terms of relationship building, you know, for candidates, clients, um, and I'll probably talk a fair amount about it, but I talk a lot about strengths, and my number one strength is futuristic. I think I naturally have that long-term mindset where I look to the future, what, you know, what that vision looks like, and then able to bring people along for that journey. And I think secondly to that, because I have so much going on, so many conversations, I think actually Amber mentioned this in her podcast with you guys, but I've recently just got the transcribing tool as well. So I'm using Grain, and it's the first one I've tried, but literally it's an absolute game changer for me because just going from conversation to conversation, then having that admin time to, you know, type up all your notes, follow-up emails, etc., it's great to be able to have that transcript but also the video. And if you were like, oh, they said this amazing thing about this, you can literally search it in the search bar and it brings you to that point in the transcript and that point in the video. So for me, that's just like a number one tool now that I absolutely love, and it's just made my life a million times easier.

I'm so glad you said that, Lauren, because me and Ben, we are preaching this, these types of softwares to lots of people. Okay, if anyone's listening that hasn't downloaded a transcribing software like, um, what's the one that you said? Grain, did you say? Right, yeah, Grain or Fathom is the one that me and Ben use.

Please— Fireflies is another one.

Fireflies, yeah. Please download it and just try it out because it is a game changer. One thing you said, Lauren, which was long-term thinking, which I love that. I think a lot of recruiters or salespeople in general, it's very difficult to transition from, I want to see a good billing this month to kind of long-term thinking. What are a few of the things that you've seen over the years that have been massive benefits from long-term thinking? What are some of the things that you implemented that kind of paid off down the line, would you say?

I think when I first was trained as a recruiter, it was very much, you know, that initial cold call was information gathering. You weren't going in for the sale. You're trying to gather as much information about that client as possible. How big is their team? Perm-contract split? Do they have a PSL? You know, what's their workforce plan for the next 3, 6, 9 months? And so I think that really enables you to just truly relationship build, knowing that something positive will come at the end, um, if you can add a bit of value on each of those calls, each of those touch points. And so I think that's just— I, I followed that sort of course, I followed that pattern, and I've then seen clients convert off the back of that. So because I've obviously seen the success of it, but you have to have that almost long-term thinking, that delayed gratification, that everything that you're doing now will come good later on.

Yeah, I love what you just said, which was giving value upfront. And me and Ben are such big advocates of this, is like, give value upfront. And one thing that we, we say is, you know, if you get people to pay with their time at the beginning, they will pay with— they'll pay with their cash later on. Yeah, but, you know, giving upfront value is part of that if they're— if they find it valuable. One of the next things I wanted to ask you about, Lauren, was delegation. I know from firsthand experience from speaking to a lot of recruiters, especially solo recruiters that are setting up their own business, they find it very hard to delegate, very, very hard to release control. Why is it so important for a business owner to learn how to delegate? It might sound very simple, but I want to kind of understand how you think about this. Why is it so important to do that?

I just think that you're wearing so many hats that naturally you're not going to be doing anything exceptionally well. So you've always got something naturally that you're, you're strongest at, your, your natural sort of innate strengths. And so for some, that might be business development. For some, that might be, you know, candidate matching, you know, whatever it is, might be the process and the administration side. So I think it's really important to have a really truthful, like, transparent, like, conversation with yourself to say, what are my natural strengths? Where am I best placed in my business? And where will my invested time see the business thrive the most? I guess that's what I, what I did. And then, um, delegated into the areas that I knew were not my natural strengths, nor did I enjoy doing them. And wasn't best placed to be doing them. Because when you're a business owner, you're not just trying to recruit, you know, you're then finance and invoicing and, you know, everything else like branding, marketing. So it's looking at where you can delegate, and if you can't right this minute, what is your first priority? And set yourself a goal of, well, when I hit, you know, X amount of billings, if you've just gone out on your own as a solopreneur, then what triggers that, that hire, and what does that look like? And I think that's a good way to, to almost look at it, because you're only gonna— you're gonna be— I think it depends what you want out of your business as well. So some people just want to be a one-man band, they're quite happy to wear all hats, whereas other people that do want to build something that's bigger than them, then delegation is key because You can't— I know it's, um, you want to take control because, you know, you can influence, you can manage the process, etc., but actually you'll never scale past that, and you'll end up being a slave to your business where you can't take leave, you know, you can't switch off because it's all reliant on you. So I think it just depends what kind of person you are and what you want as a long-term goal for your business.

Yeah, that's really interesting. And on that note, Lauren, I'm fascinated to know what's your long-term goal Like you're delegating, you're scaling the business. Like, where do you want to bring this? And what's the, what's the, what's the best business in your eyes for you at the moment? I'm interested.

Yes, I think it changes for me. So where I am right now, as you know, I've got a 3 and 4-year-old. So my boy is just about to start school this year. And when I started the business in 2018, I didn't have any children at that point. I started the business purely to have flexibility. Prior to COVID. And so my goals have continuously changed. But when I then had children and my business partner left, COVID hit, I really had to evaluate, okay, what do I want for me? Do I want to be now a slave to my business? It's only going to succeed with my time, um, and that's going to be a detriment to the time with my children. So Over the past couple of years, it's 100% been how do I get this business to operate without me. You know, I still work in and on the business, but I have the flexibility now to choose when that is. And I think that's really been the key for me. And when I look at long term, sometimes it's I'd love for it to run completely without me, but I love what I do and I'm so passionate about what I do that I can't imagine ever not working on the business. Maybe not in the business, but I can't ever imagine not working on the business. Um, so yeah, that's where I'm at right now.

Love that. So it's evolved over the years and it's mainly to give you more choices, I'm guessing, because you have a family. More freedom, more choices, but you still love, love working. So yeah, similar to, to me at the moment as well.

Sorry, I'm gonna, I'm gonna jump in, Sam, because I'm really curious about what you said previously.

Yeah.

Lauren, what was that? Because I think this is what a lot of people struggle with. I think they believe and they buy into the idea that they want more free time. I think it's that scary idea of hiring, getting it wrong, you know, having to build up a team because we, you know, we both know it's a very difficult process, I think.

Yeah.

What was that first hire that you made? You made? And how did you kind of strategize who to hire? When was it quite organic or did you have a plan from the get-go? How did that work?

So when I took the investment in the summer of 2020, um, I first went to lean on someone I knew, someone I'd worked with, someone I trusted. Um, she's still with me today, and that was quite nice because I'd gone from having a business partner to being on my own with, you know, two kids, middle of COVID and I almost felt like I got a partner back, and I treat her today like a, like a business partner, and she's truly helped me shape the company. 100% have I made mistakes along the way with hiring, not probably having enough of a strategic plan. Absolutely. But I think you live and you learn. And so for me, the plan really was, okay, well, I need enough people in the business to be generating, you know, X amount of revenue. I then need an administrator. So, uh, we hired an ops assistant about 18 months ago, almost 2 years ago now maybe, and she's already been promoted to ops manager. That was probably one of the key hires that we made because, again, I come back to this sort of like small business mindset of trying to shave costs or, you know, save costs if you like, to do everything yourself. But actually if you just delegate and invest in other people who are best placed to take on that piece of work, you can truly focus on where you add value to the business and it will grow a lot quicker.

Yeah, absolutely. So first stages, if I'm, if I read that correctly, revenue generators, maybe 360 consultants, and then the next key hire was an ops director. At what point did you hire the ops director? Was it like 3 consultants in or 2 or 1? Like When did you hire the ops director?

So she started as an ops assistant, and I probably hired her when we were about 6, 7 consultants deep. And if I, with hindsight, would have hired her sooner.

Okay. Why do you say that?

Just because once you start to have people, when, you know, we've gone on quite a journey, then you look back on people's onboarding and, you know, that's obviously a drain on my time, my probably other leading consultants' time to upskill them, to train them, if you're going down the trainee route, for example. So actually to have all of your processes, systems, onboarding so that everyone has the best possible experience from the point of joining you, you're trying to avoid that draining your time because that is going to have a detrimental effect on either billings or, you know, other areas of the business. So for me, I think that yes, you want other consultants who are revenue generating that can help you build that client base, you know, get, get the revenue in, but also to have someone that's supported on the administration side so it's not a drain on your time because it's not where your time is best placed. I'm not talking about, you know, just the normal 360 recruitment process. I'm talking about, you know, everything that comes with having, having employees. And, you know, other just bits that you end up spending your time doing, invoicing, etc. So before we had our ops assistant, I had an accountant and I outsourced pretty much everything to her. So she would do all of our payroll, like, you know, P&Ls, everything like that. So actually, I felt like I almost had— worked so closely with her, I almost felt like I had an internal sort of like finance person.

Really interesting. So if you were to rewind time, the ops director would have smoothed out systems and processes, saved you more time. And would I— am I right in saying that you would have maybe done it at what point? Sorry, just because I like to give specific feedback because I think hiring is such a— like, even for me, like, it's like a confusing thing to understand of when to do things when. So if you were to rewind time and hire an ops director, At what exact point would it be? Would it be third consultant in or fourth consultant in? When would you— when do you think would be the best strategic decision for your business if you were to rewind time?

I honestly think, and I know this is wishy-washy, but I honestly think it completely depends on your business and, you know, what your goals are. For me, just with hindsight, I just know that all of the employees that joined us at the beginning they could have had a better onboarding experience if we'd have had someone supporting us on the administration side rather than us try and build and do it and, you know, support them, train them, etc. So I would say if you've got a handful of consultants, you don't need to get someone at a high level, just literally an administrator, low-level administrator that can just support with all of those things, producing onboarding documents, process sheets, you know, qualification sheets that is just there as a supportive aid to not be a drain on your time.

Really, really helpful. Thanks, uh, Lauren.

Um, again, this is for selfish reasons as well, Lauren. Me and Ben in the process of hiring, so I'm really interested in a few other questions, but I know a lot of other people might be thinking this as well. What, what are some of the biggest challenges that you face while hiring that you can give to other people to say, okay, try to avoid this, watch out for this, I did this, I could have done this differently. What are a few of the kind of tips that you can give the audience, you think?

I feel like this has been one of the biggest learning curves for me is hiring people. And I think there's a couple of things that, again, with hindsight, I would have done completely differently. But, you know, it shapes you to who you are, you learn from these mistakes. And even if on paper, you you think you're getting it right, there's always going to be, always going to be something. Um, but I think a lack of a real strategy at the beginning of, okay, once we get to this amount, it triggers the next hire. We almost tried to do it, but I feel like we never stuck to it. Um, and it was very much just, let's just grow and expand. Um, and we almost started to come away from our niche and hire into other areas which again I think was, has been detrimental. I also think keeping people in the business that aren't performing and not managing that effectively, that's probably one of the biggest learning curves, I think. Yeah, I think they're the main, I think they're the main two, if I'm honest, to really understand what, what do I want to achieve, what's the long-term business goal, and almost work backwards from that.

Yeah, really interesting. Um, in terms of— because I'm fascinated with this as well— like, how do you incentivize people to join and then stay? What, what's going on in people's minds to say, yes, I would love to join this company and work for you guys? What, what are some of the things you've seen while interviewing people? I'm sure you've kind of clocked on to what, what will make them join and then stay for longer periods. Is there anything you've seen, Lauren?

I think at the time I was hiring, it was, you know, post-COVID where a lot of people had not been probably treated the way they should have been treated by their employers, especially some of the larger organizations. So I think there was an incentive for people to join smaller companies where they really felt like they could help shape the growth of the company. I think that's something I really try to get across in interview is that this is my vision, you know, this is how we work. And I really do give people like full autonomy, um, and, and like welcome people's ideas. I love innovation, I love to collaborate. It's just some of our key pillars at Roma Black. So I think individuals sometimes just feel like in a large corporate you're just a number And, you know, when things go wrong, it really is just goodbye, which a lot of people obviously saw through COVID. So I think, I think that's one of the biggest things, is that people like to work for a smaller company. Not everyone, obviously, not everyone, not for everyone, but that they feel like they have a little bit more sense of purpose and belonging and can really make a difference.

Yeah, that's really fascinating. I'm hearing that a lot as well, because me and Ben obviously help a lot of other recruiters writing job ads as well.

Yeah.

And that is one of the key things I hear a lot. So that's really interesting. So speaking to them and kind of tapping into those pain points that, hey, you might not have had your voice heard at these other companies. Here, you're going to have your voice heard. You're going to have more input. You're going to have more impact. Is it that, that kind of thing?

Yeah. Yeah, I think so. And I think that's down to the founder to really share their vision and their values in that interview process. Obviously, you know what it's like in any sort of sales environment. You can always have people that perform exceptionally well in an interview. You really feel like you resonate with each other and it's going well, and they turn out to probably not work for your business. But again, I— if anyone does have the recipe for just getting perfect hires, then I'd love to know about it. But I think you have to make these mistakes to actually learn what types of people you want in your organization. And I feel like everyone that we have working for us now is truly embedded and invested in the company, where we want to get to. We all ride the, you know, stormy weathers together, and essentially we all work together to collaborate and feel like we're working towards like a common goal.

That's cool. I love that. Sounds like you've got a really strong team at the moment, which is really important.

Yeah.

Um, in terms of— sorry, Ben, go ahead.

We always interrupt our assistant with a sound, don't we? Um, sorry, just really quickly though, I was fascinated because I think it's a really important issue because I've spoken to a lot of recruiters that have struggled with this as well, because I think the double-edged sword with a small business is you end up caring so much for employees and, you know, treating them really well and creating a really harmonious environment for them to work in. And then, yeah, if they're underperforming, I can imagine it gets very tricky about how to, you know, how to deal with it. And I've spoken to a lot of companies as well, small businesses that have kind of tolerated underperformance for a long time. And yeah, I don't even know where to— how do you, how do you deal with that? Like, what, what's— maybe you don't have the exact formula, but in your opinion, what would you do differently? How would you deal with underperformers? Like, Why does it happen? Do you have any insight on that?

I think, um, people just don't act quick enough, and that was my, my issue. So I think when you start to identify some red flags, you know, whether that's lack of commitment, lack of motivation, um, just not yielding the results, I try to not be too heavily KPI-driven in, in the fact of how you get with some large corporates where it's like, if you don't hit these, you know, um, so we definitely have a set of what good looks like as sort of a baseline. And I think you have to have your, like, non-negotiables, you know. You have to reach a point where you don't just let things go on and on and on and, well, hopefully things will improve, hopefully things will improve. You actually need to, I think, have a bit of an internal process that says, okay, well, if I don't hit target at this month, I don't hit target on this month, or then on the third month of no target, or whatever that might look like for your company, for example, depending on the level of consultant and their targets, then you really need to start to either performance manage, um, or, you know, for me, I think the one thing that I do feel like is a strength of mine is I'm just really human. and I always have that empathy and emotional intelligence to have adult conversations with people. You know, why are they not performing? Is there something deeper here? You know, is there something that's actually in their personal life impacting their work life? And 9 times out of 10, you'll actually realize by having those honest and transparent conversations, you never get to the point where you're sat having a conversation where someone doesn't see it coming. They almost know and they almost don't want to underperform for your company because they really believe in you and they want to be accountable. And I think that's where you can really get to. And I think that's the journey I went on throughout the course of, you know, hiring people and the lessons that I learned. It's— you really do have to make those difficult decisions because it will just be to the detriment of the growth of your company and the profitability.

Yeah, really valuable lesson there. Um, what I got from that, Lauren, is underperformers is really, really sit down and try and figure out what's going on first of all, because at the end of the day everyone's human and there could be a million different reasons why they're not performing. And if you try and understand that human on a deeper level, um, you could come to the conclusion, or you could help them a lot, a lot better, couldn't you? As opposed to maybe just—

well, yeah, it's how do you, you know, you're, you're the owner of the business, how do you support them? You know, you have to— if you're gonna performance manage someone or you're going to try and give them the opportunity to turn things around, well then you need to support them and you need to understand, have you done anything? You have to take responsibility as well. Has there been a breakdown of your support levels? Um, and so I think I continuously ask for feedback, um, and it's all part of having that like self-awareness as a leader. So that, you know, you can take responsibility as well. How can I improve? How can I support my team better? And that's why I delegated and hired people that can also do that alongside me. Where I have the kids and I don't work in the office 5 days a week, it was quite imperative to me that I had other people that were those almost seen, you know, managers, leaders as well, that they had as that continuous support.

Yeah, the, the best performers— because it's a really good point, uh, Lauren— and the best performers that you've hired, the ones that have truly embedded in the business now and doing really well, have you had to have multiple conversations, you know, those kind of heart-to-hearts with a lot of them, or have you found that it's few and far between with people at the moment?

What's your feeling with the high performers? Yeah, I feel like when you get a high performer, you do everything in your power to to keep them because, as we all know, they're a rarity, and you want to understand them, what motivates them, you know, why they're working in your business, and, you know, what matters to them. And so I find that high performers get on with it. They know recruitment, they know the ups and downs, they know how to manage, you know, the whole process, and they will come to you if you have that clear communication channel and transparency, they will come to you if there's a problem.

Really interesting.

So you can address it together.

That is really interesting.

Yeah, so there's almost a telltale sign, kind of the early stages— am I right in saying that— as to who's going to end up being a high performer and who perhaps is still going to perform well but might need a little bit more support. Am I right in saying that?

Yeah, I think I've learned a lot about people's personality traits and, you know, what drives them. How resilient they are. I know everyone bangs on about that in recruitment, but it really is, um, something that I think is so essential, especially when you're in difficult markets. You just have to be able to bounce back, and rather than make excuses, it's, well, what can I do differently? What can I do better? So not what more can I do, just what can I do differently? What can I do better? How can we all work together um, to, to improve and find that 1%, because ultimately it's recruitment. The market's always up and down, so, you know, you have to find those people that are truly committed and, you know, look after them and appreciate them.

I get the, uh, sense, uh, Lauren, that— I mean, I, I know from other podcasts and what you said as well that you can step away from the business and it will run smoothly. You know, you've built it to a level where it can run without you, which is a brilliant thing to do. Of course, I think the smoothness of that is dependent on your leadership team that you've built in place that are kind of running it for you. Can you give us an understanding of how your leadership team is structured? And how you, how you go about building a leadership team for anyone that has no idea where to even start with that?

Yeah, so what I found, and again, this is just part of the journey, um, that my, my first hire, um, you know, she's, she's worn all hats alongside me. And so what I saw quite quickly is that, you know, when you're building even a, you know, a small team, because we're a small business, um, but people need the support, but obviously, you know, that person still has their job to do. So actually what I realized, um, and at the tail end of last year I decided to create the leadership team so that we had— I had that support system, but everyone else had that support system, and they knew that, you know, if it was something that they were battling with personally, they would, they would go to Tash and she would, you know, be the one to, to be there as a sort of HR supportive person. If they need help with BD, they would go to, you know, Dan. If they needed help with candidate sourcing, search string— so we went through a strengths assessment as a team, and it highlighted what all of our leading strengths were, and then potentially like where we were vulnerable. So that really helped us to go, okay, what are all our natural strengths? Let's play to them. And we then were able to know how to best support everyone else in the business through creating this leadership team. And it's probably one of the best things I've done because I truly feel like I have, you know, a set of people that are so invested in the, in the company and the success of the company that don't, you know, they really work really, really hard. And they go above and beyond, you know, for me and the business. And they allow me to have that time with my children, which has just been a game changer because that's what essentially I set out to do when I, when I sort of built the business was have that flexibility. And I think you quite quickly realize everyone thinks it's just so easy. Oh, I bill, you know, half a million for a company. I just go and do that on my own. And it's just, it's just not the case. So actually, you know, it might be for some people, but for the majority it's not. So I think actually, um, I quickly realized that, gosh, I'm gonna be a slave to my business. I'm not gonna have the time with my children, which is why I left, you know, my secure job in the first place. And I had a really good experience. Some people don't have a good experience, and that's what drives them to set up on their own. Mine, I had an amazing experience. I was really you know, a light was shone on me and I was fast-tracked into management and I had a, you know, wonderful sort of support system. But what was lacking was the flexibility. And I just knew that in order to have that true flexibility and build something of my own, I would of course have to set up my own business. So obviously you can't foresee things like COVID and everything else, but I think that just strengthens you as a founder. And you find ways to be resilient and to find your support network. You know, my leadership team alongside everyone in Roma Black is my support network, and I feel like we're all just all on the same page and we're all there to support each other. So not every business needs a leadership team, but just for me, it felt right.

Yeah, very, very cool. I love that you can rely on your leadership team that much. It sounds like they're real strong foundation of the business. How many people comprise your leadership team, would you say, Lauren? Is it 2, 3?

There's 4 of us, including myself. So 3 of us focus predominantly on new business and really long-term relationship building alongside sort of strategy, you know, the vision, the data, you know, to make informed decisions. And we all sort of play our separate parts in that. And then we have our ops manager who will do everything that is, you know, finance, payroll, administration, and creating all of those sort of systems and processes I spoke about that enable everyone to have a smooth experience and really focus on what they do best.

Is there one particular— and this might be a difficult question— is there one particular process that the ops manager has helped with that's been like, wow, this is saved so much time, or this has made things so much easier?

I think, to be honest, it's all of the— because we were hiring, you know, pretty much every other month at some point, it really was to then have all of these onboarding documents. So when we got to probably the last 3 hires, I felt like our onboarding was exceptional. You know, there was full support. Everyone had an almost like training manual. Then they had their sort of timeline of what that 2-week training period looked like for them. Everything was really set out. So just to take on things like when you think you hire someone, you've got to do all that ordering and, you know, get everything set up, etc. We outsource our IT but also just to order the equipment in the first place. It's just all of these things you have to think about that actually was all done for me. I didn't even have to think about it, so I could just focus my attention on how do I really add value to that person as soon as they step through the door and welcome them and make them feel part of the team. So I think that's probably the biggest thing, is all of the administration that comes with just managing people, you know, whether it be sickness, absence, anything like that, holiday, you know, we've gone from having absolutely zero process where you've got people texting me at midnight or asking me for, you know, what their holiday leave is without any processes. So she's helped to implement anything that will just make everyone's life easier.

That's awesome. That sounds really cool. Was there a moment that you've sat and been like, kind of appreciated what you've built and been like, wow, this is really cool? Is there any moments that you've kind of reflected on what you built?

Um, yeah, I do. I'm so grateful. I think that's the, the biggest thing. Like, when the investment opportunity presented itself to me, it was really unexpected. So I was very much in the mindset of, right, well, you know, I've got a 1-year-old, I've got a newborn, I've got to make this work, I'm doing it on my own. But I just knew that it would all work out. So I think I'm just so grateful to have the people that, you know, believe in the, in the bigger vision. And so I often just sit back and reflect and say, I just remember what it was like when I was working in my home office, and I remember what it was like when Abbie and I moved into our first little office within someone else's office. And, you know, we had one consultant at the time. Abbie and I were sort of still billing and it was just the three of us. And I just look back sometimes and, and think, okay, well, actually, over the past almost 5 years, there's a lot that's been achieved. Am I anywhere close to the, to the goals? No. But I feel like I'm always striving to, to be better, to do better. And you learn a lot of those difficult lessons along the way, but I think that's what shapes you as a, you know, person and as a leader. And then what you do and don't want, you know, for your business.

It blows my mind, Lauren, that you set up a business on your own with a 1-year-old and a newborn. Um, like me, like, I struggle with Ben as support. I've got a baby on the way. And just to imagine that you did that on your own, it just blows my mind. Like, how— what did your day look like when you did it? Like, how did you organize your time? Because I'm guessing that was one of the biggest things working against you was time, like having to be with them, run the business. How did you manage that?

Yeah, firstly, congratulations again. Um, so obviously I started the business with a co-founder, um, and she left in February, and then COVID hit in March. And so at the time, um, my son would have just turned 1 the following month. And I had luckily signed a client that kept me busy throughout that period. So I definitely lent on, you know, my immediate family to support me so I could make those candidate calls. And but what I quickly realized was, okay, I had no day plan. I had like— it went out of the window because, you know, we were in lockdown. Like, you know, I, I had my son, and there's only so many naps he would take in a day. So, you know, I just had to make it work, if I'm honest, Ben. So I just, um, um, Sam, sorry. So I just had to really focus on, okay, I have this job, I need to, you know, do what I need to do to make the placement. I then have this job, I need to do what I need to do, I need to make the calls in the evenings, you know, whenever it was convenient. Um, and I knew that wasn't sustainable So like an organic, like I said, conversation just came to fruition where they actually wanted me to go in-house to do their recruitment. And obviously said, you know, I'm— I know I'm in a bit of a situation here, but I'm not going to abandon my hopes and dreams of, you know, running my own business. Um, so I'm not interested in, in, you know, coming in-house, but I'm happy to try and take on your recruitment. Um, and that conversation, I guess, you know, the MD saw something in me, who then put me in touch with his founder, who then essentially invested in the business. So I think timing's everything. And, you know, once you have a baby, almost your purpose changes as well. And so I didn't, you know, I didn't really take maternity leave, so I think I took sort of like 9 weeks off and then I was back 2 full days. After about 12 weeks, I went back to 3 full days, literally like 9 to 5. And the same with my little girl. I probably took again about 12 weeks off and then I had my first 2 employees join me and we were in an office. So I tried to do the same thing, whereas I've always kept that pattern of having like a handful of days where I'm focused on the business. And then a handful of days where, you know, I've got my children at home and we can go and have that time together. But I want to make it quite clear that I, I speak a lot about, you know, having that balance. That's been very purposeful, and I've been lucky enough to do that because I got the investment. Um, and I also work a lot in the evenings and, you know, every pocket of time I get because I love what I do. So it doesn't feel like work, you know, it never feels like work. And I think that's the biggest benefit. I don't know about you guys, but I never ever, and I like can't imagine this feeling, how I never wake up and think, oh God, go to work today.

Yeah, yeah.

I think that is honestly one of the most like underrated feelings where you literally just love what you do and you never have that feeling. Definitely. When people say like, you know, they, they look forward to their weekends and their holidays Like, absolutely, I look forward to them because it's time, uninterrupted time with my kids and my husband. But I miss it. I love it. I'll find any pocket of time to, you know, be working on the business. So love that, Lauren.

I can't believe how quickly the time has gone. I've got two more questions, Lauren, just to finish up. The first one is, I know you're big on mentors and coaches for yourself. What's been the most impactful mentor that you've invested in throughout your career, would you say, if you were to boil it down to one?

You know what, I really don't think I can answer this because I can't pinpoint it to one, because there's been 3 people that have really helped, and it's just over the past year, have really helped me. So one is from how do I get the business to run smoothly without me? And again, that came down to, you know, who does what, where do we focus our time, you know, setting sort of, you know, good KPIs. And then my sort of mentor that I have runs a very successful exec search firm in London. So again, just, I love learning from him, what he does, he's exceptional. And it's just learning, you know, coming back to basics. How to, how to really get the fundamentals right. Um, because I think we can always be learning, right? Always like refresh and learn from people that are top of their game. And my, my coach that I'm coaching with currently, she is exquisite. Um, she coaches some of the top leaders globally, and she really helps me to do like purposeful thinking and helps me from how do I be like the best leader possible. And so when I come away from sessions with her, I truly feel empowered. I feel like she somehow, through her questioning, enabled me to do my best thinking, to then go and implement that within the business. So I think there's so many things you can do, but it's almost like, okay, taking it back. So, you know, um, you and Ben want to look at, you know, your next hire. It's like, what would you want if you were joining a business? What would matter to you? Obviously everyone's different, but just getting the fundamentals right— how are they properly onboarded, how are you communicating with them on a day-to-day basis, how do they feel best supported— and that's the work that I'm doing at the moment.

Love that.

Yeah, um, me and Ben are so big into like mentors and coaches as well. I feel like it's the, it's the key to get ahead quicker just by investing in someone who's doing what you want to do. Um, so I love that you're, you're into that, um, Lauren. Last question, again, not really related to what we've spoken about, but again, a question that's a bit of a tradition on the podcast, so we have to ask it. Cold calling, yes or no, Lauren? Is it— does it work? Is there a place for it? Do you do it? Is it a hard no? What's your opinion on it?

So when I started my career, absolutely. It's the only way that I built business. And again, with that long-term mindset that comes back to what we spoke about at the beginning of the podcast. Information gathering, you know, building that rapport, not going in with a hard cold call sale, you know, just really trying to get to know the, you know, potential client that you've got on the other end of the phone. Do I think things have changed? Absolutely, you know. And for me, do I cold call now? No, I don't. I utilize LinkedIn. I build my strategic network on LinkedIn. And Some of my team still cold call, so I don't— I'm not opposed to it. I still think there's a place for it, but I absolutely think that in today's world, to utilize different, like, communication channels is where you'll have the most success.

Interesting. And it's even more fascinating coming from you, Laura, in the sense that you only do BD and kind of build the business now, don't you? That's your sole focus. Yeah, not cold calling or using channels like LinkedIn. That's really interesting.

Great answer.

Thank you, Lauren, so much for coming on. Lots of wisdom in there, um, lots of things that I've taken away as well that I'm going to start thinking about for my business. So thank you so much for coming on.

Really appreciate you having me.

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Peace and love.