The 4 Pillars to Building a $1,000,000 Lifestyle Business

Hey guys, welcome back to yet another episode of Top Billers Toolkit, where me and my twin brother interview top billers from all around the globe to unlock the secrets to their success. Today's guest is Pree Sarkar. Pree is a $1 million biller, and he has a story that feels like it's straight out of a Hollywood movie. He went from being laid off as a successful sales manager to not being able to afford to pay for petrol to get his kids across the country. Then he decided to rebuild from scratch, focusing on his mindset and new systems. Now he runs a very profitable business that allows him to finish 5 PM, take multiple trips every year with his family and spend more time with them. And now he can purely focus on what he does best, which is pure BD, while his team does all the resourcing, sorting everything out behind the scenes. In this episode, Pri is going to be going into the details of the 4 pillars that were fundamental to his success, which is sell, build, lead, and invest. Pri is going to be telling us how he built a 3-year cash runway which has fundamentally shifted his day-to-day and how he perceives the future. Preet's going to be telling us why delegating and systemizing his business has completely changed his life. And he's going to be sharing with us the exact BD playbook that he uses to keep his leads warm all year round. Guys, this is going to be a fantastic episode, one of those episodes that you can probably watch again and again. Preet has so much wisdom, not only about business and recruitment, but just general life wisdom that can be applied to many, many different areas. We hope you found this as valuable as Ben and I did. As usual, grab a cuppa or a glass of wine depending on when you listen to this, and let's get into it, shall we?

Wait a second, guys.

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Bree, thank you so much for joining us today, my friend. How are you?

I'm fantastic. Looking forward to this conversation. I've been following your podcast for a while now. So here we are.

Awesome. Amazing. I'm just going to jump straight into the first question, Pree, which is, what is the number one tool in your toolkit, whether it be a mindset, strategy, or software?

I'd say the number one is really having intentionality and ownership. Meaning at the end of the day, I'm a dad who provides for his family. And at the end of the day, the buck stops with me. And what I want to achieve out of my life in the next 3, 5, and 10 years is the overriding theme and strategy of everything that flows from it. So whether I've blanked a month or I've had a $100K month, it all feeds into what I'm trying to do. And I think that when you know, from COVID to wars to— there's bad stuff happening every day which can mess with your mind. And especially when clients aren't returning your calls, you know, a piece of content you just posted you thought was going to go viral has 2 likes and everything is wrong with the world. You just got to take a deep breath and bring it back to yourself that you got— I've got 3 kids who depend on me, and I just need to get on with it and focus on what I can control. There's so much I can't control, but I just need to come back to, you know, what is in my control and what am I going to do about it?

I love that. That's really powerful. And it's such a good reminder because I think we all have those days where even little things like you mentioned, like just having a post that absolutely bombs or like having a message that you think's like an absolute banger that gets no responses, it's like, it really can impact your day. But I think it's so important to, as you say, come back to that realization that you've got stuff to do. And I guess you, you are in control of some things and some things you're not. Um, how— if we were to like— and this may not be possible— if we were to kind of give that— if we were to kind of help other people going a little bit deeper into that, maybe giving them something more, uh, practical, um, maybe a story or an experience, Pri, because I think this is a really good topic. I think so many recruiters suffer with it. I just want to go a little bit deeper into that if we can.

Yep, so we'll get into it, uh, as I unpack, but basically there are 4 things that you absolutely need to learn or go on as a journey, um, as a recruitment business owner, whether you are, you know, yourself 360 and are looking for that day and time when you don't have to check your phone, you know, at 8 o'clock at night, or not have to worry about the next month's paycheck, right? 4 things. Number 1, you need to learn how to sell. Number 2, you need to learn how to build. Number 3, you need to learn how to lead. And number 4, you need to learn how to invest. So it just comes back to what is in my control. You asked me about that. The things that I can control are how am I engaging my prospects and my customers. So that comes back to learning how to sell. And that's something that it's a life skill. So it's not something that I do to just get the next job, but it's really around this is something I've got to need to learn for the rest of my life. It's the moneymaker. So how do I How do I actually become that person that people want to talk to, that voicemail that people want to call you back, that message that people want to respond, the LinkedIn content that people want to, you know, engage with. That is that skill of selling, right? Number 2 is learning how to build. And, you know, with recruitment, I am very black and white having done it wrong 90% of the time, but it's the 10% that has allowed me to survive. And that's why learning how to build, and I think you need to learn how to build a business where you can delegate and automate brutally. So you've got to be very quick. If I started from zero, right, at minimum, I would start with an offshore resourcer who'd take care of the list building process. And I basically If I needed to stop recruiting and spend one week with them, too many times we hire someone and tell them to go away and give us lists and then we groan. I did that for years. But if you actually spend time and educate them on your ICP, how to get lists and figure that out on the function industry level location so that they get really good with that, that's a gift that keeps on giving. So, You delegate. Number one is your data collection. And you get some runs on the board, you know, let's talk cricket, you know, you get singles, you're off, you're no longer on a duck, you're starting to feel warm up, you get the odd four, you've got some placements going, you get your first quarter. And then now you're starting to feel yourself and you think you're pacing for an innings. 1 or 2 sixes, get a bit of money in the bank, I would get a recruiter, right? Provided I'm doing BD every day, right? So basically, number 1, learning how to sell. Number 2, learning how to build. Number 3, learning how to lead, how to get a 10x return from that person that you've hired. Whether it's your researcher, number 2, whether it's your recruiter, so that you can have headspace to actually continue to sell. And selling is, you know, both from campaigns, LinkedIn content, and prospecting. So that's basically number— leading so that, you know, you've got people who want to work with you, stay with you, help them achieve their goals. And number 4, is learning how to invest. So this took me 10 years to understand, but let's face it, we're really fortunate that if you do it right, you close 2 or 3 placements a month. You're now, if you're at an average $20,000 or $25,000, we all have months where we end up as solos closing 2 or 3. Surely you're not going to consume all of that in that month, right? That's how learning how to actually invest that. I've made investments over a period of time where that same amount of money has 5x'd. So it then went from what do I do from next month to what do I do from next quarter, to where you get to that place where you've got— and this may sound challenging to people— but when you've got 3 years of runway. When you've got 3 years of runway, you now can be strategic and scalable and keep topping up on the delegation, on the automation, on the recruiting, on the BD, more branding. So that's a lot, but those are the 4 things. You don't need to worry about anything else and you can build the life you want.

You know what, there's so many things that resonate with me, but the thing that really just caught my attention was 3 years of runway. I was like, imagine the, the difference in thinking with 3 years of runway. And just like that, just that, I feel like your mindset completely shifts in terms of what you're thinking about and what you're doing and what you're executing at. So I absolutely love that. Um, cool, that's really valuable. Sorry, go ahead, Sam.

No, there's just so much to— um, oh, sorry, uh, Preet, go ahead. What were you gonna say?

I don't know. And at the cost of— if I've, if I've lost 70% of the people, you know, I'll tell you, for my first 7 years, I didn't have 3 months of runway. Yeah. So it's not that I've just parachuted down with all the solutions, but I realized that life was really sucky with the constant, you know, horror story around, you know, I only want jump scares for entertainment, not with cash flow, you know.

So anyway, that's great. There's so much to unpack there, Pree, and thank you for sharing those 4. That's really valuable. Um, the, the thing that really— I said that they all caught my attention, to be honest, but I would love to go back to the resourcing because I feel like, um, we unders— I understand a bit about your lifestyle, Priya, which we're going to go into more detail with, uh, because Ben told me off screen. But it seems like, and this is what a lot of recruiters would love to do, is, is once you've sorted out the resourcing bit, I feel like everything kind of starts getting easier. Is if you enjoy doing BD and you can focus on BD. But you said that previously, before resourcing was working for you, you used to hire resources and kind of expect them to work. And I've, I've heard that so much that recruiters do the same. So can you just tell me when that shift started to happen? Like, when did you realize this wasn't working and how did you— what was the biggest needle mover to make resourcing work again?

Um, because I've done it over and over again every wrong way possible, from just doing it myself to— I know million-dollar billers who are watching TV with their wife and kids and are still building that next list. So they're not actually watching TV, they're physically present.

Yeah.

Um, And they're like, oh, you know what, I've tried everything. So I've been in that place for a good amount of time. And I've learned this. So Cal Newport has a book called Deep Work.

I love that book.

I recommend that is that you're gonna— so I found, so when I wrote a book, this was before ChatGPT, right? I actually wrote a book. It was 10 months.

Wow.

10 months, and it was many, many, many Saturdays. But I— so what I've realized is that you've got to commit to blocks of time to get significant outcomes, right? We've all got that time, but, you know, usually my, you know, if my texts are going off, emails going off, I don't have time to sit down and spend an hour with a resourcer looking at substandard lists. I'd rather do it myself. So, in short, what I did was I actually recruited people who were working for a resourcing company. Surprise, surprise, you know, if we're so good at recruiting for clients, why aren't we good at recruiting for ourselves? Right? So, So number one, you start with good raw material. You get good people on board, right? And I kid you not, I paid them whatever they were on plus bonuses so that within 3 to 6 months they'd be far better off, right? So I didn't try and start with, well, it's gotta be $10 an hour. It was like, whatever you're on, give me a history. Let me structure something for you and make it easy. More importantly, what do you want to achieve? You want to work remote? You want to work this? You want— no problem. So you get the right person and then you invest time. What I mean by that is that from creating Loom videos, so let's say I recruit account executives in SaaS, right? You've got SMB, mid-market, and enterprise. You've got 12 industry categories, you know, from ERP to DevOps to cybersecurity. So what I needed to do, and I didn't for years, was I actually spent the time creating a video to say, this is what an SMB rep looks like, this is what a mid-market rep, and show them 10 profiles, 10, and this is what an enterprise rep looks like, number 1, right? So that is the level of experience. Number 2, here is the industry. So like a crosshair. So if you can get those industry categorizations in your marketplace or your niche, and they can figure out level, they're going to make some reasonably good guesses in terms of— we actually have an Excel sheet which says, here are the 12 categories, here are the 4 levels, here is the X. This is A, this is ideal. B, it's acceptable. And C, if we're desperate, we'll put the people in from there. And from there, you then identify what the the company keywords and competing, uh, the company names and the descriptive keywords. And then they can knock themselves out for 2 days and come back to you with a list of 120 cracking profiles. And you're good to go. But you've saved— it would take you as long to get those people. So don't tell me, because I've done this myself for so long. So that's the first thing you've got to invest in doing that deep work and creating enablement resources. So that's building. Most of us don't build.

So, yeah. I love that. I'd like to go back to sell, if that's okay. Sorry, Pri, me and Sam sometimes do this. We jump around. But I feel like sell for me is so— I mean, they're all really important. But for me, I've got a sweet spot for sell because I feel like if you can sell and you have an influx of clients, everything else gets easier from there, like, because you have the resources, you have the options for good clients and bad clients.

You—

I just feel like you— things get a lot easier when you have— when you can sell and you have more clients. So if we were speaking to a recruiter that was an average seller that wasn't getting enough clients or just needed a lift in what they were doing, could you give us some tips on what you've learned over the years and how to sell and/or how to attract more clients?

Absolutely. Number one, start with data. Why do we need a job order to go away to make really good lists? Start with your prospect lists. Get your resourcer to build your prospect list. I guarantee you 8 out of 10 people don't do that, right? So the same, the same matrix in which they are identifying, you know, in your niche, You know, who are the tier 1s, tier 2s, tier 3s? Who, you know, who's upstream, downstream? Well, if you educate them on that, they can do that for you, for clients, as well as candidates. So number 1, start with good data. Get a list of 200 people, get the numbers, let them do it. Don't waste your time doing it. Number 1, data. Number 2, outreach, right? Outreach, in my case, in my team, the way we do it is a 1-2-3 outreach strategy, right? So let's start with 3. These people just don't know who we are. It is cold, right? You know, it's absolutely frozen. So what we want to do there is we want to use Lemlist or an automation tool to just automate your connections, right? Every day, 20 connections. Send it out. If you've got some content that you can add value, so selling is solving problems, right? And it's giving the solution to their problems so that you can have what you want. Too many people, too many people are takers, not givers. And people will figure you out really quickly. Mm-hmm. Right? So automate your connections. So automate that. So delegate, get your resources to build your list of 200, 500, whatever you're gonna focus on this quarter. Don't try and map the whole market of 3,000 people and give up halfway and said, oh, that was a waste of time. We got 2 jobs. Let's start recruiting on this now. Mm-hmm. Build the list. Number 1, get the emails, get automate the connection. So that's 3. That's cold. Number 2, this is where what you guys do is so important. Number 2, use LinkedIn because when you make a good LinkedIn post that gets even 20, 30 likes, 300 people who are your level 1 connections will at least see it. Right? So either to build or buy, either you learn how to get good with LinkedIn. Too many people don't have the time and just are not good at it. So work with what you do, right? Make the investment because every post is like leaving 300 voicemails.

I love that.

It's a really good thing.

That's a great thing.

So one of my account execs, um, sorry, one of my recruiters, um, made a post last week where, uh, she got— this was, uh, she got 450 likes and 200 comments. Doesn't happen every day, doesn't happen once in 6 months, but it was really emotional post, as in it touched emotionally about her son going for his first interview, right? And we're all, you know, your customers are 40s and 50s, you know, depending on the executive level you're touching at. It just went off, right? Not, not your 15 recruiter friends, but actually your clients, right? Because I look at who is engaging with this posts. And so should anyone who's making posts. Anyway, now her, her strategy next week, that is 2. I said 1, 2, 3. 3 is really cold. 2 is warm. They don't know you, know you, but they've engaged with your content. So with that one really good post, her researcher, not her, has built out of those 450 likes about 150 people who are one of 3 things. They're either future clients, number 2, they're either connectors, meaning they are connected to, they can connect you to the hiring manager, or number 3, they're confidants, meaning I'm gonna call you, Sam. Sam, so I'm already familiar. Sam, will you give me an insider's perspective about your account name? He works at the account. You know, are you hiring? Who should we— you're not asking him for a connection. He's just a coach or a confidant. So if you look at that, then LinkedIn now opens up rather than it's just the client. So I've had— I've called candidates at a global SaaS company that I've called and called and they've not replied to my emails, my voicemails, my LinkedIn messages. I've talked to a candidate. He decided, he said, this is not for me, but I love the way we've had this conversation today. You've given me so much value. I said, help me out. Give me an insider's perspective. People, it just disarms people. That's at least for me. Said, tell me, you know, are you guys hiring? Is it hard? Yes, yes. All right. Well, I have some vetted, qualified top performers that will really help your sales manager. He said, oh, I've got a— they're drinking buddies. So that was the easiest introduction I got after I earned the right to have that conversation. So long story short, you've got number 2, and number 1 is people who know you. Too many people start with number 1. And that's the 17 clients that you had at your previous agency, current agency, future agency, and you've exhausted them after 3 hours, and now you're depressed because you don't know who to call. Right? So you've got to have this triangular strategy, which is like, okay, I am going to add 500 to 1,000 people this quarter to my profile, which my researcher, not me, has built. I am then going to figure out either myself or work with a specialist like you to figure out how to crack this thing twice a week. You're the experts here, but you know, it's hard enough to make one good post. So I, I'll say two, two good posts is this, and then learn. Let me look at all the other recruiters. Let me look at what Sam and Ben are posting, right? And just learn and figure out. And so for me, it's always pain-led selling. So going back to your question, it's pain-led. People are likely, if you said, you know, you can look at one of my posts, it says another sales VP got made redundant. Right. He introduced me to 3 people on his team who are absolutely outstanding, and for no fault of their own, they got let go within the first 9 months. So buyer beware. Remember that you're being sold to by the company when they want to hire you. So choose really carefully, have a scorecard. And oh, by the way, if you're hiring, message me, I'm going to give you free introductions. And I mean it. And I've done that. And that just goes off, right? But not everyone is hiring for that position in that city for that role. And all of a sudden you've created awareness. There's a give, but there's going to be a get. So long story short, the second one is your level 1 connections who you don't really know, but you're connected to 500 people, 1,000 people. 10,000, you know, out of my 10,000 connections, maybe I know 1,500. I've been doing this for 15 years. So even at 100 per year, you know, let's say, so the point is, but I have messages all the time. Priya, I spoke to this one. He says you're amazing or more so in the latter, not in the former. So it's not, you know, it wasn't week one, but we live at an amazing time where you can literally use LinkedIn to create emotional connections and get signals of approval. And because all you need is two things, you need like and trust. Hmm.

Yeah. Such a good point.

I like your stuff and you're building credibility with your posts. You're talking to other people like me. You're talking at the same level as me, not the 17th resume tip and the 18th interview advice. Talk about your clients. Don't talk about recruiting. So long story short, that's how you then get this midsection of warm people who you can then— so I hate leaving voicemails where I'm never going to get a callback. And I've done that for years until I'm like, there's got to be a better way because it's either therapy or back on the phone. So figure out how to make good LinkedIn posts. Get a whole bunch of people. Her next week, she's got 150 execs that she's reaching out to, either clients, connectors, or coaches. And guess what? She should have 3 to 5 warm opportunities for this quarter and maybe 5 to 10 for next quarter. But that's great leverage from one really good post.

Yeah, it's insane.

You couldn't, you couldn't make as many voicemail— voicemails, emails. So that's my point.

Yeah, brilliant. That's great.

Amazing how much power is in LinkedIn once you learn how to use it and you're just a bit more creative with it and not just kind of waiting for that client to reach out to you, Pri. And as you say, kind of using those touch points and then proactively reaching out to them. I think that's where the gold is. Um, what I would love to get into, Ben, I don't know if you had another question that is about the— I want to, I want to circle back to the lead, the, the lead part, but I'm really fascinated in the investment part, Pri, because I don't think any recruiter we've ever had on has ever spoken about how to invest your money sensibly so then you can create a 3-year runway. Um, I feel like that is an art in itself. So can you tell us a bit about When did you decide to start investing? And then how did you figure out this method that obviously is working for you that's created a 3-year runway?

So about 7 years back. So because I work with tech companies that are SaaS companies that we exchange offers for sales VPs and accounting execs who get offered equity. I'm like, I'm on the sidelines of this Premiership game and I'm creating immense value for both sides. How am I going to benefit from the knowledge that I have? And so the first thing that I did was if I was trying to recruit out of a company, let's say as a CrowdStrike or a Zscaler, And the sales rep's like, I'm not leaving. I'm just making my number. The company is growing. The team's amazing. Well, you already are getting really good signals from the market that you're talking to a really good company that's got product-market fit, that's growing, that's doing really well. Do your research. Right? So that's how I, 2019, I placed the head of Asia Pacific sales of a little-known company then called Zoom. And they're like, hey, you know, the CEO is amazing. The culture is great, blah, blah, blah, saves people time for travel, you know. And I was like, yeah, they're pretty cool. And I did some more research. And so I bought Zoom stock in October 2019.

Oh, wow. That's madness.

I did get out at 2.5 multiples. And on that occasion, I'm not bragging. You know what?

No, it's fascinating.

I'll start by saying I stayed with the family SUV Toyota scratched up by my kids for 15 years. So that was pretty much for my first 11 years. And it's only when I exited Zoom that I was able to buy my 2 Teslas, one for me and one for my wife. But that's the gift. That's the gift. There are so many opportunities that we're not looking at that, that was a— rather than just be a number in the bank, we said on this occasion, we've waited and waited and waited. We're going to do something that will actually— we look at those and say, you know what, that's because this business or this profession has given me so much.

I love that, Pri. Absolutely love that.

And so am I right in saying that most of your investments has come from, um, understanding which companies are on the up, doing your research, and then placing your bets in the right areas?

Yeah. Okay, that's really fascinating.

And basically, being in the technology space, I do have a, a moderate to high-risk profile, so I'm willing to take chance. I've made some I won't say colossally bad, but I've made some average decisions. I'm also on the weekends, rather than worrying about that candidate, whether he's going to start on Monday, I've spent time— I go for a walk for an hour and a half and every weekend on Saturday and Sunday, and I've spent time educating myself on the guy Mohnish Pabrai was on Diary of a CEO recently, the guy with the book Big Mustache.

Yes.

So I read his book on all the companies called 100 Baggers. Right. So the point is you strategically layer in. I didn't do a course in investing, but I definitely read a number of books which says, okay, here are 3 to 5 things that would tell you that this company is going to make you money. It is going to beat inflation. It's going to beat the odds. And you go from there and you look at technologies. Won't get into it, but I am a big Bitcoin fan as well. But you know what? It has done exceptionally well for me because my fundamentals— I have too many people saying, hey, what should I buy? And I'll never tell them what. I'll tell you, here's what I'm doing. And then you do it because when it's red, you're like, oh my gosh. So I've had to work on my mindset that just like the cost of my house, the value is only the day I sell it. Until then, it's all notional. So I just buy and forget. Otherwise, you couldn't do depression with recruiting and then depression with investing. That's a sure shot formula for just giving it up altogether. But I would say we do get access to chunks when we've had good months and we really need to then build that we think we need to take the 1 month and make it 3 months. We need to take the 3 months and make it 9 months and keep working on it. So that's, that's my philosophy. And I've been fortunate to get off that, am I going to have food next month or next quarter? I was in that place for a long time. So yeah.

Do you have like, do you say a percentage of profits that you're going to invest this quarter? Do you have like a rough guideline as to how much you're going to invest pre, or is it very much on the whim depending on the opportunity?

I would say just for starters, you need 3 to 6 months cash, right? So you're not even in a position to— So remember, there are 3 things that if you end up talking to me or someone on my team, you'll hear these 3 words: survivability, survive, Sustainability, scalability, right? You gotta fix number one. You've got to fix, can I make a living out of this profession, right? It's not the one placement, it's not the two placements, and then I've got, you know, nothing coming. So you've got to get that number one. You need to learn how to sell. Once you've got your campaign, you're 1, 2, 3, you've got people, you've got some jobs happening, right? You're not working bad jobs. It's better to prospect than work a C-grade job or a job where you're one of 3 recruiters and you don't have candidates but are hoping against hope. Waste of time. The point being, number 1, learn how to sell so that you can get out from survivability right? Learn how to build so that you can, you know, get into sustainability because it will give you time back not to build those lists. It will give you time back eventually not to recruit. And so those two positions took me from $400K annual, burnt-out recruiter, 7 AM to 7 PM, to $550,000, $600,000 with the researcher and then with the resource, we were at $800,000. And before we know it, we were galloping. So that it's, I'm like, why did I wait so long for this? Right? Which is, so it's like, do whatever you can and get from, get the researcher, get the recruiter, build and then learn how to lead them. Leading is not managing. Leading is actually helping them achieve their goals. So my first recruiter, I trained a couple of people who worked with me for a year and a half, and then they ended up going somewhere else. And I'm like, what can I offer them that they would not get elsewhere? Like, what is it? Because I'm so sick of hiring, training, and then people leaving because there was a better opportunity. And in my case, both went to become account executives in the industry.

Like, interesting.

They're making 50% more in tech. So a recruiter versus tech, tech will always pay more in sales, right? So I ended up identifying, I heard a podcast, a teleseminar, dating myself. But it really said, you got to think about, and what I decided was that in my town, in a 3 to 5 kilometer radius. I started looking for someone who's been in sales in the past or has had a client-facing relationship in, in the past, but basically wants to work locally, has kids in school, so they need to drop off at 8:30 and pick them up at 3 PM. And I made incredibly good hires. Wow. Plus, it was 65% of the cost. So, these were people with a degree, with a 5 to 10-year corporate career, but they took a break to have kids. Now, the kids were in middle school, so 6, 7, 8 years old. So, they were mature and they just wanted more. They were sick of sitting at home and they wanted more. And that has been 3, 4, like critically good hires. Wow. Come in eager to learn, love it. You know, literally on my call logs, they get done between more between 9 and 2:30. Now they might practice leads, work full-time from wherever they want, pick up their kids and do whatever they want. But it's— the point is that you've got to figure it out. Stop worrying, take ownership and figure it out. Everything is figureoutable if you just don't You know, don't waste your time with clients or candidates you can't help. Spend time on things that you can control. And that's why, you know, uh, I, I didn't come from agency. I've actually come from client side. I was a sales rep, then a sales manager, and then a second line, I was a country sales director.

Wow.

Redundancy. And I'm like, I don't have a clue. I've had FedEx on my logo, which opens, you know, but it's just me. So the point being It's figureoutable. So, I hired someone who needed me as much as I needed them to stay, help them achieve their goals. They get after 2 years, they get up to 6 weeks of annual leave. During school holidays, they can work from home. Well, that's what they want. They've worked with me now 7 years.

Wow.

They learned the industry fresh. And research, recruitment, and then they train the others. They train the others. How good is that? That's brilliant.

Amazing.

Right. So, yeah.

Absolutely love that.

How are you for time, Pree? Because I've got quite a few more questions.

I'm good.

For like one in a row. Okay, cool. I would love to go into— so Ben told me a bit about the business you've created and the lifestyle you've created for yourself, Pri, and when I heard the lifestyle, I was like, that is exactly what I want to build and what I'm aiming to build in the next, you know, 5, 10 years. So it was very inspirational. But I'm just curious, because you have— I wonder if there was— what, what question am I trying to figure out? I would love to understand why you decided to build your life in the way that you have. Was there a moment that you were like, hey, this has to change?

Or was that—

was it always the goal to create a better lifestyle and a more free lifestyle for yourself? And could you explain to the audience a bit about your lifestyle as well? That would be awesome.

Somewhere along the way, I discovered that my highest value was freedom. Highest value was freedom. It wasn't, uh, country sales director, managing director, title. It wasn't the logo that I worked for. You know, I just wanted to live a life of freedom and flexibility, right? That was my highest value. But then I had to figure that out over the years by learning how to sell, build, lead, and invest. So today, this is 15 years on, and this is been true more for the last 6 years. It wasn't like this in year 2 or year 3, right? I'll tell you what, first 3 months, I wrote to the bank that I couldn't afford my mortgage. I actually didn't, you know, I got made redundant with another 200 people because they closed the business, GFC. And it was really hairy and scary. Wrote to the bank, having been a salesperson, I asked for 6 months. Because I knew they were only going to give me 3. So they gave me a 3-month. So I had 3 months of income and I had 3-month mortgage holiday. So by 6 months, I had to make it work, right? So I started, you know, doing sales training, coaching people, you know, I'd cook you that egg any way you wanted it as long as you were willing to pay for it. I love that.

I'm going to use that, cook that egg.

Yeah. So whatever you want, if you're putting money on the table, I will cook it for you. So that was my first 6 months and then figured out that, yeah, they were selling training. So, it's just really getting going. But then, even year 2, there was a point where I had a blanked-out quarter and I'm like, maybe I should go back to corporate. I could go back and get into a sales role or a sales management role. So, I've had a friend call me and say, come down to Melbourne. And I kid you not, I did not have fuel money and the ability to take a week off. And that really bothered me because I wanted to take my 2 kids who are under 5. So with that said, yeah, I am in a fortunate place today where I own my 2 properties. And I'm not saying— I'm just giving people like, it is possible. That's all I'm doing. I own my 2 properties. I've got an amazing team that has worked with me for a number of years. Um, I I don't do any, I don't have any, I haven't had a candidate recruiting call for 6 years. I haven't made candidate submittals for 6 years. I only do BD and I coach my team. I do BD, I make LinkedIn posts, which then gives me the ability to think and figure out how do I improve branding systems, right? So I do work Monday to Friday, 10 o'clock, 11 o'clock, I can come in. If I have— I'm a Christian, I have some quiet devotional time, get my head in the right place. I ride my Peloton or go to my personal trainer, get my body in shape, and then I come to work. I have got the luxury of doing that. And nobody's needing me. The phone's not ringing, the text's not— it is good because I've been in that situation for years. But then I can leave at 5:36, pick up the kids if I need to, and cook. Alternate nights, my wife and I share responsibilities. And then I can travel 6 times a year. Twice I go to the Pinnacle Society in the US, which was a life-changing event in 2018 because I was burnt and I was billing, I'm making a face, but it was just my calendar was packed from 7:00 AM to 7:00 PM. I had lost the joy. I was making the money, but I didn't have joy. So I applied to this Pinnacle Society because I listened to Mark Whitby and the Big Biller Summits and free education because I couldn't afford coaching fees. And all these people who are at the Pinnacle Society, so applied. And getting in, they had one position, 16 applicants, and that process of interviewing, being invited to a conference, meeting everyone, and then they voted and choose who's yes. And I got in. It was unbelievable.

Well, I didn't know that's how they selected you. That's really interesting. Yeah, that's crazy.

That's a very rigorous selection process.

And you've got to have a billing— you've got to bill, I think it's half a million for at least 3+ years out of 5. So, long story short, met some amazing human beings, learned a lot. But going back, there's the quest is to build a life that you want. So, for me to be able to be a continuous learner, I've spent at least $150,000 on my personal education or professional education. And that's funny for, you know, someone who I was out playing football rather than studying for my exams. So, my parents were despairing for me to spend $150,000 on my education. It's a bit funny. But anyway, long story short, that's what we did. But I am able to go to India twice a year, see my dad, spend some time with him. My wife and I, we've been to to London and Edinburgh. You know, people from London want to get here to Australia. People from Australia want to go to London for the summer.

That's so funny.

That's how it is. But also, you know, Italy and France. And I'm taking my kids and my wife to Orlando, 5 of us, to Disney. Those are expensive holidays. Took my boys to New York 2 years back when, you know, one turned 18. And I said, where do you want to go? Anywhere. One one week anywhere in the world. And for a guy who couldn't take his kids and pay for fuel, that— I can't tell you, I'm going to get teary, but that means a lot.

Yeah, that's beautiful. Amazing.

One week anywhere in the world. And he will never forget that dad did that. It was a mind-blowing trip.

So cool, absolutely love that.

Thank you so much for sharing. I'm curious, Pri, in that moment when you were burnt out, you know, that critical time when you were really burnt out and you kind of lost the love, if you could go back in time and prod yourself and say, hey, just do, you know, go in that direction and everything is going to start to get better, what would you go back and say to that old Pri? Would you say delegate?

Automate and keep doing BD. Stop hugging the tree and start looking at the forest. You've got to get time. You've got to switch off. From a functional point of view, what I love about the ritual of the Sabbath or the shutdown where 24 hours you do nothing, I actually try and practice that way.

Just—

this is not religious. I'm not Jewish. I'm just saying I love the concept of total plant shutdown for machinery cleaning. You got to get out. And I've had some amazing ideas when I was not hugging the problem. You got to have clarity breaks frequently. So even if you can't switch off on Saturday, but just give yourself the gift by Sunday too. And you're going to have a far more better Monday than what we usually do because we're still on LinkedIn, we're looking at our messages, we're looking at email, we're still thinking about that prospect, that candidate who starts next week.

So yeah, love that, Pri.

Oh God, I've loved this conversation. You have sparked something in me that is amazing and beautiful, and thank you for sharing everything. Ben, do you have any other questions on your end?

I feel like there's like a million other things we could go through with Pri, um, but I also feel like we have covered some really powerful, um, aspects. In fact, I do have one more question, if that's okay, Pri, and it's a little bit of a, um, just going back to, going back to the BD side of things, because I, because I love— it sounds like your brain is pretty much in BD mode and you get, you get to spend the time building relationships, adding value. If there was one thing, and hope— if there was one kind of activity that you put above everything else to win new clients, what would it be? Is it, is it speccing CVs? Is it giving courses?

Is it content?

Like, what's the number one thing in your mind that's highest value?

I'll take a step back and actually, uh, suggest something that will really help users. In my 15-year journey, there are less than 5 books that have shifted me from where I was when I started to where I am right now. Book number 1 is Key Person of Influence by Daniel Priestley. Get that book and it doesn't— and get through it and actually get it through you because until you become someone, that is worth it. So I actually, I paid the $17,000 fee to do your one-year program with key person of influence. I kid you not, I've made $1.7 million from that.

Wow. Interesting.

But I finished, I wrote the book. There were 80 people in my cohort, less than 7 wrote the book. So we wrote the book, created the content, did this, did that, did that, right? But it changed my brain on how to help people buy rather than, hey Sam, hey Ben, you know, do you have a job? Are you recruiting? Right? So how do you become someone who clients see like this guy is everywhere, he knows everyone else, he has so much useful information for me. Right? So number 1. Number 2 is 10x is easier than 2x and Mark Whitby recommended that to me and I didn't read it for the next 12 months. Like what we do with all good book suggestions, we do nothing. I'm like, oh my gosh, why haven't I read this before? So I read the book. And I'm like, I am— if I want to go— so let's say we've been hovering at the $2 to $2.5 billion. If I want to build a $20 to $25 billion company, the only way I'm going to do this is by doing 1, 2, 3, because If I got to 2.5, I can figure out how to get to 5. That's lazy thinking because that's linear. But the only way to 10x over the next 10 years is to think thoughts you haven't thought before. You've got to look at things and say, there is no way I'm going to get that six-pack unless I— there is no way I'm going to climb that mountain unless I— and fill in the blank. So 10x is easier than 2x is amazing. So keep us in vigilance. 10x is easier than 2x. Deep Work by Cal Newport, like actually work on the things. It's not hard to create a great piece of content. I speak to a client. He said, I need a justification why I need to use a recruiter, right? 2 hours later, I created a grid for him around bottom quadrant, job seekers, bottom right quadrant, in mails from talent, but the top right-hand, you know, high performers with very high product-market fit, only a headhunter can get you that person. And I was like, wow, but I had to stop. I had to— I know it, but how do I actually produce that and bring that to life so that he can actually articulate it in a room that I can't enter so he can do the selling? So, Going back to answer your question, your question was around BD. I think that the best form of BD is learning how to solve people's problems. And the moment that you see your customer has a lifecycle, number one, critically, he's looking for a job. I connect with every ICP that I can in my— and in a week, I speak to 4 ICPs who are actually actively looking for a role, and I will coach them on their LinkedIn profile, who's hiring, who's not hiring. And I'm not even able to— I'm not putting them out as candidates. But the emotional connection that you meet when you're solving a big problem for someone at a personal level, it's a gift. 7 of my last 10 logos have come from people that I've helped. Plus, you know what? I sleep really well. I have made a lot of friends. So that's 40 to 50 a year. I've got to choose who I spend time with because I've got people asking me for my time. But number one, so every month I have people started that I've supported in their job search.

Wow.

Don't go to that company, go to this company. Oh, you need a little more money? Here's what you do. Here's how you do your 30, 60, 90-day plan. Put a picture of yourself running a marathon, being the vet and saying, Gentlemen, I do hard things. Like, I have literally coached people through that. If I'm going to spend time leaving 50 voicemails that won't get respond— I'd rather speak to 5 people who need my help, and next month I have 5 champions starting at new companies, and the following month another 5 champions starting at new companies, and the following month. So surely one or two will come back and engage me. Love that. And at 2 2 new logos, heck, you'll at least make 2 placements in the next 12 months. So that's $50K. So that's $100K every month that you're guaranteeing of net new business, leave alone the LinkedIn posts, leave alone the campaign reachouts, leave alone the people who you know who go to a new company, leave alone the repeatability. So now you've got an ecosystem, a multi-channel play of, like I said, 1, 2, 3. You've got campaigns running, you've got LinkedIn posts going, That's how you do it.

I love that. So, so I'm getting— what I'm getting from this, uh, Pri, is, is the, the most valuable BD activity that you've done that has a compounding effect is giving back to the right candidates, the right people, the right ICP, um, advocates that when they're in businesses will come back to you. And you've been doing this monthly and it's compounding, and, and now you're winning business from it.

Givers gain. Give in your content, give in your messages, give in your one-on-one coaching. I called a VP who I knew. He said, Priya, I would love to engage you, but I can't use recruiters. I said, that's fine. Don't hire a rep without checking with me. I've got 32,000 candidates and I've got their performance details and 70%, I know their manager. You don't have to engage me. He background checked two people. One was absolute no-no, saved him a bad hire, helped him to get a good hire. Three months later, he engaged me and my company. Wow.

I love that.

That's so cool.

Right? He gets 17 calls from recruiters in a week. So you've got to look at the other person and say, how do I help you get your goals today? Whether it's your team member, whether it's your candidate, or whether it's your client. And you do that, and you will be a person they will never forget because now they have an emotional— they like you and they trust you.

Absolutely love that, Pree.

God, what a conversation. I have to say, Pree, your energy and your mindset and you as a person is just infectious and in a positive way. So thank you so much for coming on the pod. Ben, Sorry, I said that without asking, have you got any final—

No, I think this is a perfect time to wrap up. I thought this was a brilliant podcast, so I'll ditto what Sam said. Thank you so much for coming on, Pree. It's been an absolutely epic podcast session and just really appreciate your time, my friend. So thank you.

I've really enjoyed it. They were great questions and I hope it helps someone.

Thanks, Pree.

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