This Recruiter Scaled a Business to 25 Million and LOST IT ALL!

Hello guys, welcome back to yet another episode of Top Billers Toolkit, where me and my twin brother interview top billers from all around the globe to unlock the secrets to their success. Today's guest is Chris O'Connell. Chris's story is like something straight out of a movie. He endured horrible abuse from his stepmother as a kid, went on to work at a petrol station as a teenager wondering what the hell he was going to do with his life. It's only when he found recruitment did he really start to flourish. He went on to build a business worth £25 million. He became a millionaire by age 26. Today we're going to be delving into Chris's story and understanding from his perspective what it was like growing up in poverty as a kid and then going on to make so much money that you can splash out $40K on a single watch, to then losing every single penny and grappling with suicide. This is going to be quite the roller coaster. And as usual, grab a cuppa or a glass of wine depending on when you're listening to this. Let's get into it, shall we? Hey Chris, how are you?

Very well, thanks for having me on. It's great to finally meet you online. Uh, yeah, glad to be here.

Yeah, like, like Ben just said a moment before, we've been following you and your journey for many years, so it's quite surreal meeting you. Um, well, I met you before, but having you on— so, uh, and I know you have one of the most incredible stories I've heard in a while, and, um, that as well as many other reasons is why I wanted to have you on to just share that with, uh, with our audience. So thanks for coming, mate, really appreciate it. So we always start with this question. What's the number one tool in your toolkit, whether it be a mindset, strategy, or piece of software? Chris, what would you say?

Well, I've been doing what I've been doing for 25 years now, so my experience is helpful. It's great. And, you know, you can't buy time. But I think that my answer to it is probably my vulnerability. What I mean by that is my ability, I think, to be open to talk about issues and topics, which enables my clients to feel at ease themselves. I believe that you can have all the operations, all the experience, all the marketing, all the branding, all the ops, all that kind of stuff is great. But certainly in my area that I work in, more often than not, it's the human side, it's the ego, it's the softer skills that are the blockers. And I try to get to the nub of those things first and then the rest happens.

I'm sure a lot of people have heard your journey and your story, but I mean, when you briefly told me about it last time, I was in awe just of the amount you've been through, what you've done, where you've come from, and like just your experience, your life experience. Can we start off the podcast— oh, it's the beginning— but can you just share with us your journey? And can we have the, the longer version, uh, not the, not the condensed version, if that's okay? Because I think it's so important for people just to learn the whole story.

Okay, well, I'll go back right to my sort of very young childhood then. So I was born— well, I lived in a caravan. When I was 2, my brother was 3, my dad used to work on the railways at nights, and he came home middle of the night or even early, very early morning. I was naked, hanging half out the caravan window. My brother had raided the fridge. He was sick everywhere. Dad said, "Where's Mummy?" She fucked off, left, abandoned us there for the night and took whatever possessions my dad had, and we never saw her again. So just literally no— no, didn't turn up for any court case or custody or leave a note, just left. My dad wasn't emotionally capable, ready, available to look after two young boys, wasn't financially there. Just, my dad did his best, but he was a very simple man, not very affectionate, and just wasn't capable of looking after two young boys. So I was fostered for four years between the ages of 3 and 7, which gave me a bit of an idea what a family unit would look like. Then my dad took us back. He got a council flat. I remember having to get up at 5 o'clock in the morning, even at the age of 7, and then walk to East Railway, then walk to school on my own because he couldn't take us because he had to work. So from a very young age, I had to be an adult. And my foster mum said I was the parent of the family, even at sort of 3 and 4 years old, because it's just the way it was. He then remarried, um, and his wife abused me, um, physically, emotionally, in other ways, and, um, would stop me going out the house. Would— if my phone's— if my friends would phone up, they'd say— she'd say, fuck off, he's doing the hoovering. Sorry to swear, but she didn't do any, any of the housework at all. My dad had multiple sclerosis as well. So it was myself and my brother that were just looking after my dad. My mum, my stepmom, was just abusive. So the first, the first, the first two role models I had, female role models, my mum abandoned me and my stepmom was, was, was, was, was awful to me in a very, very different way. So wasn't given any— we had to cook ourselves from the age of like 7, 8, 9. She didn't do any of that. My dad couldn't because he hadn't. So it's the whole thing was like, so I had no concept or idea of a family unit. It wasn't nurtured. Didn't, didn't feel love for my mother or mothers. And that really messed me up emotionally. I felt inferior. I felt worthless. I felt very shy. I felt different to everybody else. Um, I managed to pass my 12+ somehow. I went to a grammar school, hated it there. You know, I was called a pikey regularly and got all our clothes from charity shops. It was very nice school, but I just stuck out like a sore thumb, had free dinners, all this kind of stuff. And I didn't complete a week, a full week in my last year because I skied, used to forge my dad's notes and just go on bike rides. And I remember quite a few times I rode to the station and contemplated jumping in front of the train, a number of times actually, even at the age of 12, 13. So my childhood was shit. Um, and obviously I'm very aware that compared to other childhoods, it's nowhere near as bad, but for me personally, it wasn't a very good experience. Um, so I left home at about 15, worked in a— worked in a petrol station at night, hardware shop at the weekends, just to sort of stand on my own two feet, and then managed to get a job at, um, one of the biggest recruitment companies out there, S3, uh, £1.4 billion agency with 3 or 4,000 consultants worldwide, 60 offices across 20 countries. I walked in there, just could just about afford a suit, walked in there, they're all like massive white ties. This is like 20 years ago, 25 years ago. Ferraris, shiny shoes, real hardcore pinstripe, sell your grandmother for a deal kind of vibe, really brutal. But for some reason, even though all that happened to me, I walked in and I felt this feeling that this is me, this is my calling. Walked in there and smashed it. Absolutely smashed it. Became one of their brand's UK top billers, then became the worldwide top biller across every single person. Was billing a million quid a year in 5 years with my team, made them £15 million and absolutely knocked the doors off.

Wow.

Left there, set up my business in 2003, got that to 100 people, £30 million turnover, 14 industry awards, 3 offices. I was Southwest Entrepreneur of the Year. Did that in 9 years. Absolutely one of the best businesses. People still say it was one of, if not the best recruiting businesses out there. It just was. 3 Virgin Foster 100 awards in a row, 3 Best Company 3 Star awards in a row. It was just this phenomenal business. But, you know, I was a millionaire at 26, 27, 28. Range Rovers, cars, houses, more money than sense. I bought an AP watch for 35 grand in chrome. And I thought, actually, I quite like rose gold as well, and bought one, £45,000 one a week later. Just literally more money than sense, you know. Go out and spend £5,000 on a night out, I could. Um, but I'm very proud of that business. Uh, but my business partner then walked in one day and said he didn't want to do it anymore. I couldn't afford to buy him out because it was like, business was worth multi-millions of pounds. So we did a private equity deal He then left. I stayed on as CEO. The first year was quite good. The second year, it was awful. The culture was disseminated. The relationship with me and them, the private equity firm, was horrendous. They were literally counting the coffee granules. The business was built on culture and camaraderie and all the stuff, but they just wanted to sort of look at the bottom line to the degree of it being untenable. I was spending most of my time in my office looking at spreadsheets. And I can't go into too much detail because I've signed an NDA, but I lost that whole business. The relationship became very fractured. There was a legal situation that happened and I lost the whole thing. Um, and in the space of 18 months, lost £25 million, lost access to my children, um, lost 7 houses, uh, got divorced, and, um, had at least 3 suicide attempts because, um, you know, being a very successful CEO of a multi-million pound recruitment business to then having nothing was, was really hard to take. And it all collapsed around me. I remember being in a lock-in in a pub and not seeing my kids for 6— after 6 months was just, just this feeling of just being vacant and hollow. I was, I was depressed and down. And, you know, um, one time I drove to, I drove to the, uh, station, planned out For a week, I was thinking about suicide aggressively. Every moment of my life, of my being, was— I hated thinking, breathing, walking. Everything was difficult. So I just thought, I want to kill myself because it would, it would just relieve me of this feeling. Got in the car, drove to the station, and then walking up and down the platform, I had it all planned out. I was going to jump in front of the train and then got a phone call and snapped myself out of it. So there's different examples of that happening. Um, then, um, I left the family home, uh, and sleeping on mates' sofas, Airbnbs. I had no money, nothing. Literally multimillionaire down to nothing again because all my money went on legal fees and divorces and whatever, loads of stuff that I lost. Um, and was forced to kind of look at myself And I can blame people, I can blame circumstances, but this is my chance to actually stop and do some work on myself. So since then, this is only about 4 years ago, I spent a lot of time doing lots of personal development and lots of therapy, lots of counseling, and lots of— became a mental health first aider myself, start to understand what mental health is and was. And then decided to tell my story on LinkedIn and be open about it and say, this was me. I built this £25-30 million business, got all these awards and just, and then people levitated or gravitated towards that and they loved it. And since then I've built my coaching business. Now I've got, I've helped over 40 or 50 now businesses grow and scale.

Amazing.

I'm very, very well referenced, very renowned, and I'm enjoying, I'm enjoying life. So I think that I'm more happier now than when I was with all the, all the money and cars and that kind of stuff. For a period of time, I ended up resenting people with money, and I knew that was the wrong attitude. Now I believe I've got the right balance between earning good money, enjoying myself, but having that internal fulfillment. So that was, that was enough there.

Yeah, that was a— thank you, mate. That was a very detailed and, uh, and you said it beautifully. Can we go back to that moment, um, Chris? You had a really difficult upbringing, of course, what you've just, just described. You already had suicide attempts when you were young. You were working in a gas station, and then for the first time you go and walk into S3, which in my— which when I kind of put myself in your shoes must have been a completely different world. Like, and so can you talk me through like What was it like walking into their offices? What was going on in your mind? And why did you feel like, this is for me? Because you said, like, I belong here. Can you describe, like, yeah, that, that thought process?

It's a strange thing because I think even from a very young age, I think I was probably born to be a business owner. But I've always, I always wanted to run my own business. Always, you know. And I, I, I, I, I walked into this environment. I had 11 interviews there. That's how they did it. And then the final interview was Yeah, and then the final interview was, was, was in a boardroom table with the chairman, and we just talked about the job. But I just, I just walked in there, and for some reason, it was kind of like I had this— it was like goosebumps. It kind of felt like, how a second, this, this is what I want. Because I had nothing, because my mum walked out on me, because I— it's almost like I deserve this. But what she did to me and what my stepmom did to me I think it was almost a case of no one can do anything worse. This is my opportunity to get out of the situation and the life that I would've had. If anything, my mom leaving probably did me a massive favor, and I see it like that because if her and my dad stayed together, God knows where I'd be now. It almost kind of, it forced me to have the drive, it forced me to do that. So it felt exciting for some reason, which is a paradox because even up until recently, If I have a, a dinner party with close friends, I might get really anxious and social anxiety. Or I can walk into a client and hold a board meeting and chair and coach massively experienced CEOs. On the flip side, I can be really— so there's a bit of a paradox there. But for me, it was just bizarrely, I just felt I don't fear this. This— it was just one of those weird things I can't really explain. It just felt like it was the right thing for me.

Hmm, it's pretty fascinating. So from what you just said, Chris, it was a mixture of like excitement that you can change your situation and go to complete— to a completely different world, you know, change your world, but also a kind of sticking your two fingers up at the people that, that did you wrong in this world, and a kind of a balance of those two things that drove you forward. Am I right? In saying that?

Yeah, I think so. I think so. And, and now I think it's almost like I, I, I, I've said before that maybe I was doing it for the wrong reasons, but I was doing it for the, the only reasons I, I could. It was almost like I needed to get that revenge. So, um, it was almost like— and when the problem I had was when I got to 5 million, then 10, 15 million, 20 million, 25 million, every time I got there it was like massive anticlimax. It was like, okay. So I say, it soon dawned on me that no matter how big my business would be or whatever, it was never going to fill the void of my mum walking out and my stepmom doing that and not really have— not really being in love with anybody, not really experiencing love. So I was trying to replace what I didn't have with material and things and status and that kind of stuff. So I think that I almost fell in love with that S3 thing because it almost felt like it was my, my family, my vehicle, my, my love. And it's only when I lost it that I realized actually that what I needed to do was start to love myself and myself and look at myself first and do things for myself, not for everyone else. So, you know, I've been a people pleaser in the past. I've fallen into very, very bad relationships. I've attracted the wrong people because of what's happened to me. But now, and I'm still learning and growing, that's changed.

Can we go back to that moment, Chris, where you were buying the watches? You know, you were arguably at the pinnacle of your life at that point because, you know, previously you'd been in quite a bit of poverty. You hadn't experienced a lifestyle like that. In anyone's mind, that's like, I've reached the top now, you know. I've come from the absolute hell and I've worked through it. I've worked my bloody ass off. I've got all the accolades. I'm now at the top. Can you describe to me your— what was going through your head at that point? Like, what— how are you feeling? How are you thinking? What was— what was— what was going on then?

I think, I think, you know, I, I had the money, so it felt as if, like, I might as well spend it. And it felt as if, if I've always felt I deserved it and I was very, I was very carefree with it. I have to say, you know, I spent, I'm not showing off, these are just facts. I spent £16,000 on a 3-night stay in Sardinia. Like, what the fuck am I doing? You know, absolutely ridiculous, you know. Um, but I just, I just had this inherent belief that this is me, this is, this is the level I'm at. And now I sit in first class when I go to London, and I, I'm much more cautious. I mean, I always say, well, should I be spending that kind of money? But I, I sometimes I'm very frugal with money now. But what I'm trying to say is I was so— I was quite reckless with money back then. But I almost feel as if you don't necessarily— shouldn't be reckless, but I almost feel that if you don't have a relationship with money, and if you start to work really hard, you start to get the rewards and the riches, if then you feel guilty when you're treating yourself, then you're sending out the wrong message as well. It's a real fine line, I think. So what I've learned with that is when I've had the money back then, I was too frivolous. I do get that. I probably was. But now I'm starting to get the money back. I'm going back on relatively expensive holidays and I'm spending stuff on my kids and do some nice stuff. But I'm not saying, oh God, you know, I've 'better not do that.' It's, it's, it's, it's, it's finding that balance. Because, because people— I always say money is not the be-all and end-all. It's not. But you've got to have a relationship with it. You've got to treat it with importance. You've got to have— you've got to respect it, and you've got to feel that you're worthy of it as well.

Um, yeah, 100%. I think that's one— I think worthiness is, is definitely ties into belief system, doesn't it? And I'm guessing by that point, Chris, you had given yourself so much evidence that, you know, you worked your ass off, that you were like, yes, I'm, I'm worthy to be here because I put the work in. I'm guessing that's where most of the belief, belief and kind of—

yeah, but it's funny though, because, because it's like, even now, even though I've done what I've done, I'm getting much better at it, and I'm much more kind of— I don't really care what people think, but I still do. I still, I still, I still feel as if I've got to prove something a little bit. And I think I actually think that harnessed in the right way, that's a good thing. But too much of that is when you go the other way, when you're just, you're posting for posting's sake, or you're just trying to, you're just trying to get that validation. So I think that actually, like with anything, like with money, like with pain, like with joy, like with all this kind of stuff, some, some of these negative emotions can actually be good things, like anger as well. If you harness these things in the right way, everything's, everything's can be positive.

I totally agree, mate. I think that's such a— I think once people learn to harness those negatives and turn them into good energy, or not even good energy but the right energy to push them forward, I think that's, uh, they've unlocked something in life, definitely. Um, I would love to now kind of go to that point, uh, Chris, where you, you'd built the, the $25 million, numerous awards, arguably, you know, at your peak financially. Up to that point, and then it all, it all kind of came crashing down. Um, what I'm again fascinated in is how you overcame that, because you've, you've had multiple times throughout your life where you've contemplated suicide, where you've been at your absolute lowest, and you've, you've come out of them. And I'm just wondering, how do you keep coming out of them and then achieving such greatness? Like, what is— what's going on in your head? Was it someone that helped you during that stage? Was it something you keep saying in your head? Like, what, what, especially on the second time, what shifted you out into, into giving it another go?

I, I think, I think I was given the most, um, unusual gift by my mum that you could ever wish. Like, her abandoning me means that intrinsically no one can do anything worse, or nothing worse than that can happen to me. So from the age of 2, I had that feeling of absolute devastation and loss So I kind of— I'm now conditioned to it almost. So there's been 5 or 6 major, uh, instances in my life where it's happened to me. So my mom abandoned me, my stepmom doing that to me, me, uh, not having access to my first son for like 6 years, me losing my business, and then happening again. Uh, so it's almost like, um, I have this inner resilience, this inner voice to say, yeah, Tyson Fury fight, you know, when he was knocked out and then on 9.79 seconds he got up at the last minute. I just feel that— I mean, everyone's got their limit, right? You're going to be punched down so many times, but it just is a bit cheesy, like Rocky would say, is how— not how hard you get hit, it's how you keep up. So yeah, I think it's just— don't get me wrong, I haven't done it. I've had people around me, I've had coaches, I've had times when it's been difficult, but I just— I think I've just got this inherent thing where on one hand I've— it knocked me for six, but on the other hand it's given me so much resilience. But when it's really, really, really difficult, I just have this thing in my, in my heart and my soul and go, come on, it's gonna be all right, it's gonna be all right.

That's amazing, mate. What I got from that is like your, your brain over many years has been conditioned to pain And so when you go back to really painful situations, you're probably more likely than most people to come back from it because your brain has been so conditioned to that way of living.

And that's why I don't, I don't, um, say go out and look for it, but until you've had adversity, I, I think that, I think it's almost, it can be a good thing, you know, and it makes you, it makes you stronger if harnessed in the right way. So Yeah, some people respond differently to it, though. It's not as— don't get me wrong, it's not as straightforward, and I wouldn't wish what happened to me to anybody. But I found more light and more strength and more wisdom when I've been on my knees, you know, been homeless a few times, you know, in those really dark moments is when it's almost like I get the clearest of thinking. And it's made me, it's made me respect myself more. But I still get affected by people who are disingenuous. But what I've also learned is that a lot of great people out there in this world. There's also a lot of people out here, out there that are, I call them transactional people that are only their main mode is to try and get something out of you. Uh, and that really affects me, and I still, I'm still trying to fathom that, why it affects me so much. But I guess that's life. If everyone was all nice and lovely, and that'd be boring, right?

Yeah, yeah, I get you, mate. You said, um, in your darkest moments you have your most clarity, clearest thinking. Why, why, why do you have that? That's interesting because it most people, darkest moments is where your brain does the most negative thinking, the most shit that you have to kind of drown out. Why is that your clearest moment in your darkest?

Because I think, I think it almost— when I'm talking about dark, I'm talking really dark. It kind of almost like you're so taken by the issue that's there. Me personally, it almost pushes all the other stuff out the way, all the other noise, and go, right, you've got to do what you've got to do. You've got your next move. You've got to do something that's almost forces you to act with clarity, you know, and pushes the noise away. And that's why on a sort of simple term with my, with my, one of the things I advise my people that I coach in my businesses is to focus on 3 to 5 things each day that are going to actually shift the dial. Anything else is noise and a bonus. And it's the same kind of thing, you know, when you're on the phone to a client, is this person going to make you money in that sort of terms? If not, move on. You know, I think I think that even in relationships, I think what I've learned recently is that if I start to feel and see red flags or, you know, my energy is really important to me, you've got to knock these things on the head, you know, otherwise it manifests. One bad relationship or one bad conversation that you allow to happen, you then allow it to happen somewhere else and it all manifests. And the same with the positive things as well. And sometimes You know, giving people tough love. I've lost best friends over various things, and, you know, up until recently I would want to go back and I haven't. And I think it's, yeah, it's self-respect for me. Going off on tangent now, self-respect is really important. Um, if you respect yourself, others will as well.

I know it sounds obvious, but no, so true, mate. Um, 100%. If you were to— because I feel like, Chris, you're very self-reflective, very self-aware, and you're— you've done a lot of work on yourself. Throughout the years, which is evident because of how succinctly and fluently you'll be able to speak about your story, which is tougher than the average story, I would say. If you were to go back and see young Chris in the gas station, you know, he's just about to go to S3, but he doesn't really know that that's happening. I don't know if that is the case, but what advice would you give him now that you've kind of been through all of that and come out the other end? What would you tell young Chris? In the gas station?

I'll say, Chris, I love you. So, because I never had that said to me by my parents, my anyone really. Why? All reason why I think I would say that is because even when I was having my success, I didn't, I didn't love myself. I would go out and get drunk or do whatever, you know, and I would associate success with getting out of my mind or whatever, or buying something or You know, so I think, I think because I didn't, I didn't, I didn't know how to, I didn't know how to handle that success. I didn't know how to, I didn't know how to handle relationships. I didn't know what love was. So if I had that semblance of self-respect, self-love, and I, and I love you, Chris, I felt loved even by myself, I think I would have done things differently and probably still had the business. But actually losing the business was the best thing for me because I needed to lose it all again, to find myself.

So, absolutely love that, mate. Um, it's funny because I, uh, I do therapy and I, I've done therapy throughout my entire life, but, um, recent— on a recent session, I was— I, I said that, that came up and I was like, I love you, Sam. And it was such a strange thing to say to myself, but then, and it got really— I got really emotional actually, because it's like you don't realize how much you need to hear that from yourself. You might get that from a few other people outside, or you might not. But if you try saying it to yourself, it's actually quite an interesting experience. Um, so yeah, yeah.

And people, people mock about that, didn't they, when they say the whole Mel Robbins high-five stuff, look in the mirror. And I, I, I have had to do stuff like that. I've had to unwire myself and then rewire myself. For, so for a couple of years in my old place, I had my, I had a whiteboard in my bedroom and I had all my values on there and affirmations like, I love you, Chris, and self-love and self-respect. Every time I woke up, it was so— I do believe things like that do work. And I'm not a mind reader, but my mind, and I know other people's minds, is you can do all that stuff, but you're still going to get the negative voice. You're still going to get the devil on your shoulder saying, don't do it, Chris, you're a dick, or whatever. And sometimes you can't control it. So what I've learned is that person's— all that other side is always going to be there. And it's just about how— it's just about, you know, a lot of the thoughts that come into your mind aren't actually your thoughts as well. People will think that's strange. It's— they can be brought in from various different mediums and reasons. So I think it's about, um, reducing— trying to reduce that voice on your shoulder by saying, 'I love you, Chris,' but also saying, 'Hello, mate,' and realizing that person's always going to be there as well. Because if you fight— I think sometimes if you fight fire with fire, it comes— the fire comes back even more. You know what I mean?

Yeah, 100%. Totally get that, mate. Coming to the end of the pod now, Chris, but I'd love to know, again, you've been through quite the journey, had, had different relationships with money, different relationships with success. What's the, what's the vision for the future now? What does success look like to you now, Chris, current version? What does success look like?

Yeah, well, My business-based mindset is built on 6 principles of life, which I think are important: business, personal development, health and fitness, relationships, wealth. And, you know, they say I've been guilty in the past of just putting all my eggs into the business basket. Now my business is good, but my purpose and my objective moving forward is to leave a good impact on as many people as possible, business and personal. To build relationships and just to, I mean, I could set up a recruitment business tomorrow. I don't want to do that. I'm enjoying what I'm doing. I'd quite like to go into TV and launch and go crazy with my podcast a bit more and have some sort of chat show that's based around these kind of conversations that are actually meaningful and real and kind of so if Yeah, that's not very— so I can carry on doing my NED stuff, which I love. I want to get to a point where I'm having these real types of conversations that can impact and help people in some way. So that's what I'd like to do.

Love that, mate. Thank you so much, mate. Honestly, I really appreciate you coming on and being vulnerable and sharing your story. It takes a lot of guts, a lot of courage, and I just wish you all the best, best of luck for the future, mate. So thank you for coming on. Really appreciate it.

Thank you both, I really enjoyed it. Cheers, guys.

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Peace and love.