THIS is How to Do Indigenous/Non-Indigenous Conversations!

Hello, you absolutely amazing person, you, and welcome back to my channel. Or maybe it's your first time here. Actually, chances are really good it's your first time here. So welcome. This is where we discuss all things Indigenous, non indigenous engagement. Here's where we learn about each other and recognize that we may have different world views, we may value different things, but that doesn't mean we can't work together. Now, one of the things I love about my career and many people may not realize is that I engage with a lot of you on a regular basis. People may comment on a YouTube video, they may choose to, and then as a result of that interaction, choose to email me. Often the people on my email list, after they receive my weekly video, they write back either to just thank me for sharing or to ask for clarification or to ask a question of something they've noticed. And many of these people are non Indigenous Canadians. What I love about these interactions and it's the same with my Flex Consulting clients, over time I see the growth. I see the growth in understanding. I see a change in questions from base level learning, which is where you start. Nothing wrong with that. You can see their growth and I love it. So today I want to highlight one of those interactions with D. Danielle Hayek Hayuk. I'm going to get shot for that. I'm sorry, Danielle, have we ever discussed your last name? I should have asked. Me bad. She is the owner of Vibrant Systems ca. I highly suggest you check it out. We'll talk more about that in a minute because we had a conversation lately that I really want to share with you because I think it's a growth journey. Let's talk about it. Bonjour, Mishko paganong kwei nadishnikas mang do dem. Hi everybody. My name is Sandy Boucher. I'm Red Thunderbolt, woman of the Loon clan, a proud member of Seine River first nation in Treaty 3 territory in Northern Ontario. And. And no, I'm not going to get upset if you ask me that. Look at me. I tend to be very fair. And now with the blonde to help bring in the gray, you should be asking. In this era of pretend Ians, we need people with actual lived indigenous experience and that I have. So don't judge the book by a cover. Ask your questions now. As I mentioned in the opening, I wanted to talk to you today about Danielle Hayuk. H A U C K. How would you pronounce that? Danielle? Comment please. I would love to hear from you. And she is the owner of Vibrant Systems. And get this. This is the vision of Vibrant Systems. Any guesses why we're friends? Okay. Vibrant Systems sees a world connected by strong, sustainable and vibrant communities. Grassroots movements and community growth are rooted in engaged action. And every person has a place in making their community a great one. You hear the angels singing. How often have I said that? Whether you're talking about a team, a work environment, a neighborhood, a community, a family. Family. Think of that feast, Thanksgiving feast, Christmas feast, if you will. The feast is amazing because it's made up of many amazing dishes. And those dishes are amazing because they're made up of many amazing ingredients. And you're one of those amazing ingredients. And we have all been there, done that. When there's the one ingredient that is difficult or downright rude or disrespectful or God forbid, racist and they can ruin the whole dish. You know that. Throw in a rotten tomato and see what happens to your salad. But I digress. This was about my conversation with Danielle. So first and foremost, Danielle and I have met a few times. We've discussed things a few times. Why she hasn't been a guest on my podcast yet is interesting. And after I release this really good chance, I'm going to see if she's interested in that again. Danielle, you're probably watching this, please comment. I would love to hear your thoughts on that. She sent me. Oh, guess what I forgot to do. I forgot to put my phone on do not disturb. So I am just going to fix that right now. Done and done. Tech issues. Done. As I was saying, Danielle sent me an email on November 13th. So not horribly long ago. Unlike Antoinette's book and email. Still beating myself up over that one. So her subject line was touching base. So right off the get go, warm vibes. Conversational English academic emails are so or professional emails are so cold. So distance. That's not how you build a relationship. Touching base, that's just warm and fuzzy. I was a happy camper. So this is what Danielle had to share. You'll get it in a minute. Hi Sandy, I hope you're doing well. How can you not love that? I've been catching up on some of your videos and as always I am always able to walk away with with greater clarity. Thank you so much. I so appreciate the time you put into your channel as a resource. By the way, Danielle has Vibrant Systems YouTube channel. I'll put the link in the show notes because you should definitely check it out in your video about the second step needed towards reconciliation. I definitely so remember I said first had to be that willingness to reconcile. But the second one was trust that Indigenous people have to work on unpacking stereotypes and not just automatically not trusting any non indigenous people. And I understand the survival and I understand why we do that. But if we're going to reconcile and start working together, we have to start taking the chance. It's like you loved and you got hurt. Well, at some point you take the chance and love again. So we have to trust. But the onus is on Canadians to be trustworthy. That might be a bigger challenge, especially when I see the empty promises of our politicians. They continue to happen every single day. Look at the billions of dollars Indigenous people and Indigenous programming just lost to help the Canadian economy. But we're still the ones with all the benefits, right? Right. Don't even go there. Okay, so back to Danielle's email in your video about the second step needed towards reconciliation. I definitely felt the call to be someone who is trustworthy. I would like to say I always have been, but I have a sneaking suspicion that's my ego talking. This one's going to have the angel choir often. I can tell. Can you say humility teaching in a non indigenous person? This woman is so well on her way to building authentic, beautiful bridges. Love it. And then the next sentence starts. However, I do aspire to be someone who is trustworthy and I intend to be very mindful of my actions in this regard. She's not beating herself up. She's acknowledging where she was. And she's committed to mindfully moving forward. That's all we could ever ask for. This is amazing. I know you have your own full schedule, so now she's just being sweet and considerate. So I'm not expecting a reply. That's just silly. But I wanted to share a reflection. I've been sitting with myself and I'd appreciate your thoughts on it. Whether an email or perhaps a video on your channel. Danielle, you got both. You deserve both. Yay. So, by the way, I'm in northern Ontario. I live in the city of Thunder Bay. Yes, with its horrific reputation, that is well earned. By the way, Danielle lives in Alberta and that's an interesting dance. Right now, Alberta is definitely, dare I say, separating from the other provinces. Not. Not. I just saw that a petition was approved that they can't actually do that, but they have different interests than many other provinces. Let's leave it that way. And I'm not even sure I would go that far. Alberta's been in the news. We'll leave it that way. So she goes on. In Alberta, the municipal elections recently wrapped up and I was doing some research on Calgary's new city council to see values and platforms they are platforming on a well informed young woman. Amazing. This also led me on a community empowerment research rabbit hole. Been there, done that. And I found an unexpected theme between the two. So the research on the city council and their platforms and a community empowerment lens, the theme was perception could have such a huge discussion on perception. Specifically it was how perception leads people to see a harmless but unhoused person as a threat to public safety, to detach austerity spending from the gutting of critical services, to value money over people. I would have hugged the stuffing out of her if I could reach her at this point. Perception is a driving factor in rates of vaccination against measles plummeting in Alberta. It's a huge reason why climate adaptation mitigation has fallen off government agendas. In some cases, people perception was invaluable to leverage because in community empowerment studies, a positive perception of one's involvement could reduce rates of anxiety and improve participation, whether the initiative had a significant quantitative effect on certain issues or not. I know in your work as a consultant you likely are faced with battling incorrect perceptions nearly every day. You are probably already well aware of how much a beast that is. And my question is how? How can we actually break through the discomfort a person feels when their worldview is challenged and actually make a shift? Even when I was in my public health program, this was a theme that routinely cropped up without any real answers. But I feel this is a challenge government bureaucrats are unequipped for. This email turned out way longer than I was expecting. Again, so we're so super sweet and respectful and considerate. I do hope I will hear back from you one way or another. But I do understand if this falls to the bottom of your to do list. Sending all my best wishes your way. And I want to be crystal clear here, that phrase I understand if this falls to the bottom of your to do list. I know people that would write that and it's a passive aggressive comment and I know people that would read that and assume it was. I know Danielle enough to know she was being authentic. She understands how busy I am and she supports and appreciate my work. So no shade there. No shade whatsoever. So let's see how I did. When did I respond to her? She wrote November 13th and I wrote back. I have no idea. It's not showing. Oh yes, I wrote. I wrote back on November 19, 6 days 1317 1819. Yes, I had to count on my fingers. Don't judge. Math has never been my forte. English class writing yes. Math not so much. Okay, so I wanted to share my authentic response with her. My actual response with her. I would love to hear your feedback and comments and then I can expand on it. So on Wednesday, November 19th at 5am, welcome to my world. I wrote well good morning you. What a surprise to hear from you. A very happy surprise. Conversational English building bridges. I love it. And yes I am very busy but I saved your email until today when I had a few minutes to breathe and respond. For one I love your deep dive and I do believe perception plays into so much but I challenge you to ask yourself why to go deeper. It has been my experience that fear and disempowerment play into those perceptions. That the perceptions are not only wrong but but a choice. In modern day I meet so many that fear being at the bottom of the ladder. As a result they consciously place themselves higher than others by doing whatever they can to separate themselves from those they are othering. It is why the poor white are the greatest threat to indigenous peoples and often the most vocal. They need us to stay below them for they fear what would happen to them if they lose that fight. I have had poor white participants ask me where is our champion? They see indigenous leaders fighting for indigenous peoples. They see advocates and allies fighting for newcomers, but they don't see anyone fighting for them. So they turn that anger on another oppressed group. If they can't win, at least they don't have to be at the bottom. Disempowerment leads to arrogance. In my mind that false loud I got this mentality. It is the people who have convinced themselves they don't need vaccines and no one can tell them they have to because inside they know full well just how little power they have and that fact scares the daylights out of them. One of the vital parts of my work is to see the fear allowing me to work with to work with the person rather than judge the person consumed by it. The disempowered can hurt many, but most of all they just want to be heard like everyone else. Hope that helps. And you are right, this could make a good video. I do believe I will do that. Can I mention you and your channel work? And yes, she wrote back an amazing email on the 19th. Oh she wrote back the very same day I got up my game. I won't share that email with you. It's just gonna get longer here. But I did want to share with you the kind of amazing interactions I have with the people who reach out to me. Now. There is a discovery disclaimer here. I have all time in the world for those who approach me with humility. I don't understand why indigenous people don't. I don't understand why this is such an issue for indigenous people. That's humility. That's someone who wants to learn. I have time for that. Well, eventually you can see how busy my schedule is. But the people who attack, who come at me with why don't they just. That's pure judgment. That's not building any bridges and I'm not engaging with that. I meet people in the middle of the bridge if they are willing to meet me there respectfully, and then we can have a conversation. Danielle is a perfect example and so are many other people that I interact with on a regular basis. So if you would be interested in being one of those people, first you got to get on my email list so that you get these videos sent to your inbox and it's nice and convenient and then you just hit reply with your comments or your questions. So how do you sign up? Get on my email list right here on my website until next week. I love you. I would love to hear your comments. And Danielle, what did you think of the video? Until next time. I love you. Take care. Bye. Bye.