How On Earth Do I Talk To My Child About Porn?

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Hi, welcome to Talking Sense, a podcast with me, Dr. Marta. I'm a clinical psychologist trained in family therapy and every week I answer one of your real life questions to offer you psychological understandings, ideas and suggestions to guide you. Before we begin, I like to offer you a little moment of pause, a bit of time for you to get ready for our conversation today. If you are able to, I would like to invite you to just put your feet on the floor, ideally without shoes on. So so this may be tricky if you're actually listening to my podcast as you walk, but if that's the case, just try and stand still for a moment. I want you to notice how grounding and strong you are when we have our feet flat on the Ground, we often don't notice that we're actually often feeling really strong, really pulled by gravity onto the ground. And I want you to remember that today and for the rest of the week, whenever you feel a little bit wobbly, that actually by just standing up straight and noticing how your body feels on the ground, you can feel strong. And now, when you're ready, let's begin.

This week's question is on how to talk to our children about pornography. And it's a great question, so let's have A Listen. Hi, Dr. Marta. I was wondering if you could share your thoughts on how and at what age to talk to preteens about pornography. We've always had an open communicative relationship with our son, who's now 10, talking about issues organically as they crop up. We're also quite boundaried around screen time and online content. However, he's off to secondary school in September. So we are wondering if this is a topic we should broach and how.

Thank you.

Bye bye. Thank you so much for asking me this question. I think talking about pornography is something that as parents we don't really do. So I guess my first question is going to be to you. Who talked to you about pornography? Did your parents ever have this conversation with you? Perhaps a teacher? Was it part of your sexual education? Just stop and reflect on that for a moment. I think it's really important when we are trying to begin these conversations with our children that we reflect on whether or not they happened with us and if they did, what we found useful at the time, what we found difficult, you know, like how did the conversation leave us feeling? What would we like to do differently for our children? And I think pornography is a topic that as parents we need to be aware of and think about. And I think particularly in our current society where we've got the Internet at our fingertips and so do our children. And what I'm going to say now can be quite confronting, but it's true, and there's a lot of research and evidence about this. Recently there was a survey done in the UK by the English Commissioner, I think it was, that basically reported 1 in 10 children have watched pornography, but by the time that they are nine years old now that might feel like really disturbing data. But when we think that there's about 60% of 6 year olds that have a smartphone, then it makes sense that by the age of nine or ten they're going to be seeing something such as porn. And I know this report went more into depth, into like exploring the kind of porn that children see. And what we know is that most times, the first time a small child sees porn, it is not coming from a place of intent. They're not looking out for porn. What happens is it shows up. It is totally by mistake. It is unintentional. It's kind of opportunistic. It shows up either on YouTube or it'll show up somewhere like TikTok. And small children will see a pornographic video or a pornographic short. That can be really distressing for them because the younger they are, the less likely they are to understand what they've just witnessed. And also the report went into talking about the fact that 79% of young people by the age of 18 have been watching porn, and some of it may include sexual violence. So we need to think about this because it's really important, I think, you know, the more we understand the facts as parents, the more we can equip ourselves and build a toolkit to support our children and help them as best we can. I think the idea of saying to children not to watch porn is a really tricky one. They're going to see it whether you like it or not. That is one of, like, the assumptions that I make as a parent. And what we need to do instead is to educate them and educate ourselves in how we talk about porn. What are the things that we want our children to understand about it? What are the things that we want to make sure that they are able to communicate with us? For example, if it's distressing or frightening, or if they don't like watching it, who can they talk to about that? How will you, as a parent, support them with that? And I think this is part of the whole conversation. But for me, porn is like a small part of what, as a parent, we should be talking about with our children when we're talking about sex. So although I'm not going to go into a conversation about how to talk about sex with your child on this podcast, I would like to say here that when we're talking about preteens, I'm really hoping that by this age, you have had the sex conversation with your child. And remember, the sex conversation isn't a conversation. It is a process. We should be talking about sexuality and bodies and pleasure and consent all throughout our children's childhood as early as possible. That doesn't mean that we talk about sex when our child is four, but by the time our child is four, they should understand that the anatomically correct labels for their body parts, because that is a way of safeguarding our children from sexual abuse and of empowering them to not feel shame about their bodies, to see their penis or their vulva the same way that they look at their hands or their feet, right? It's just a part of their body. There is no shame attached to those labels or those parts. And by the time they're eight or nine, they will have had a sense of what sex is, which is not just penetrative sex. Sex is about pleasure, it's about desire. It's about, you know, masturbation. It's about lots of things. And if our children don't understand this by the time they are preteen. So for me, a preteen is between the age of 9 and 11, then having the porn conversation is a lot more difficult. So if you're listening to this podcast and thinking, oh, no, I haven't done that. I've not been talking about bodies. And we've not really talked about consent in this way. We've not really talked about sex in this way. Do equip yourself. It's not too late. Equip yourself with tools that are going to help you help your child understand sex. Don't just leave it to teachers at school to educate your child, okay? It's you who are their primary safe space, their primary person who they can communicate with. So I've got a recommended book list, and on the kind of topic of sex and consent and bodies, I've got some really good books that range from toddler age. Yes, you heard me right. Toddler age up to teenagers. So have a look, see what fits. There's a really great book on consent and. And there's a really lovely book called Sex is a Funny Word, which I highly recommend, not just for your child, but for you, too. So what I always say to parents is, read these books yourself first and have a think about what the images or the content brings up for you. In lots of conversations I've had with parents who come to me where we have wider conversations around sex and bodies in the therapy room, what often comes up for adults is this sense of shame. It's a sense of embarrassment. It's a sense of having these conversations is so difficult and feels like you might be breaching your child's innocence, perhaps, or feels like you won't be able to maintain a straight face because you might get the giggles or you might just feel straight. So embarrassed to just have to say the words that you don't know where to start. And I want to tell you that if that's the Case, if these are some of the things that get sparked up for you, that's normal. It doesn't make you a bad parent. It doesn't make you a bad person. It probably just means that nobody had this conversation with you in a way that was both language and age appropriate. And if that's the case, don't blame yourself, because the shame that you're feeling has been passed down to you. Whoever talked to you about sex, if anyone made it feel shameful, and if nobody talked to you about sex growing up, nobody gave you the correct anatomical parts for your body, nobody really taught you what sex and sexuality actually is, then you've absorbed that shame from the fact that there was silence. When we silence conversations, what we learn is we can't talk about this topic. There's something wrong about it or something dangerous or something, you know, embarrassing. And of course, if also you have a religion or a faith, then you may also have stories around sex and sexuality that come from there. Now, all the books that I recommend on my book list tend to be faith neutral, which means you can embed the parts of your culture and traditions that make sense if you would like to. They tend to be books that are factually correct and are very literal and really help kids and teenagers understand these big concepts. But they can also be really helpful for us, the adults who possibly never had this conversation. And for me, growing up, I had some sex education at school. School which basically was, don't have sex, use protection, don't get pregnant. And I had some sex education at home as well. But I was raised by parents who were very Catholic, and therefore there was a sense of shame and there wasn't a sense of empowerment for young women. It was about male pleasure. And often conversations around sex still revolve around the issue of male pleasure. And I'm saying this because whatever parent you are and whatever gender your child is, it can be really important to also reflect on this. What stories or narratives about sex do we want to share with our children? How do we want to empower them to listen to their bodies, to know what pleasure is, to not be afraid to speak up about what they need and what they don't want? How do we allow our children to practice consent with us? Not in a sexual way, but it's still consent around their bodies, around saying no to a hug or no to a kiss or no to being tickled? We have to allow these conversations and these practices in our home in order for our children to feel equipped to go into the real world and navigate the things that come up for them. And alongside these conversations about sex and, and sexuality and consent and bodies, we need to talk about porn. So that's what we're going to do today. And if you are interested in the kind of talking about sex, I would also highly recommend you think about pre ordering my book, how to Be the Grown up, because I have a whole chapter on talking about sex and sexuality and consent. And some of my clinical examples are actually around the topic of pornography because it is something that, as a clinical psychologist working with teenagers, comes up a lot in my work. It's something that I think we are becoming more aware of. But still, these conversations are difficult. So I'm really, really pleased that this question has come up for the podcast so that you and I can begin these conversations together. Just start to be reflective and thoughtful about what we're going to say and how we're going to do it. And just so you know, as a parent of a daughter, I have the exact same worries and fears as you. Just because I have more tools in my toolkit doesn't mean that it doesn't bring up anxiety. Because as I said previously, these conversations were not had with me either. There is no way there was a conversation about porn to be had with me. So understanding this and understanding that having that first conversation is going to be hard to is important because part of it is about accepting how you feel, moving through it and talking about it in a way that hopefully is useful and helpful to educate your child, but most importantly, to keep them grounded in the knowledge that you are there as a safe person to talk about these topics, that you're not going to shy away from difficult conversations and. And that if they feel scared or worried or want to ask some questions, you're going to be there to help them through it rather than cause them shame or tell them off or make them feel upset. So let's go. Let's have a think about how to talk about porn with our kids.

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So first of all, I think I've already kind of said a little bit of the why it's important to talk about porn. But let's just do this very briefly. So talking about porn with your child is important. I know this question asked when, and my answer for that is if your child has a smartphone or their friends have smartphones, then just remember the data from that recent report that one in 10 children by the age of nine will have seen porn. So how early do you talk about this? I would say to be safe, around the age of eight, which is often when also children begin to learn about sexual education. So bring these two conversations together. It is not one or the other. Can we expand the conversation and our thinking around sexuality? So when we talk about porn with our children, it does several things. Firstly, it removes secrecy. This can really help your child open up about times that they've seen it and perhaps been distressed or things that they've seen in the porn or that they've noticed their friends doing that upset them. Okay. When we give our children permission to talk about these topics, it means that they get a relief that they think, okay, this is allowed, it is tolerated. This conversation is a good one to have. And that is a really important thing. It can also open up these wider conversations about consent, body autonomy. Also kind of thinking about what is sex and what is a sexual relationship about, remembering that most porn that is online is fake, which means the stories are made up. They don't tend to have any kind of view on reality, on like what a sexual relationship is. People don't just jump into bed after three sentences and a joke. And it's important that we explain this to our children, right? Because if their first experience of sex is through porn, then, you know, we might need to talk a little bit more about how relationships are formed and how we end up in a sexual relationship. But also with porn and looking at bodies, they tend to be very unrealistic, right? They either have no hair, they have had cosmetic surgery. There are often filters that are used. And like I say, there is a lot of fakeness in porn. And children, we know this again from evidence based on research, don't tend to know that there is a difference between reality and fantasy when they watch something like porn. So this is really important because what we're talking about is what is healthy, what is real, what does consent look like? And what is porn really about? Right. Porn is about triggering desire, triggering sexual kind of feelings, but it's not really a template for a sexual relationship. And these conversations are important because when we encourage this with our children, it helps them see porn the same way that it might see a film or a cartoon. Okay. It's not real, it's fantasy. And then we can maybe explore what this means or what it looks like for our child when they see it. So when you talk to your teen about porn, when you. What you're doing is opening the door to have these conversations, and you're not leaving it to chance that your child is going to come to you and say, mummy, what's porn? And of course, some children do do that. They will ask when they hear the word or they've started to see a film or something's happened. If your child asks what porn is, don't jump to telling them off or saying, oh, my God, where have you seen it? You're too young. And listen, get curious. You know, curiosity is your best friend here. So if you need to breathe, because it's more important that you look after your emotions and you calm yourself down, breathe and then get curious. Oh, you're asking me about porn. I wonder where you've heard that word. Have you ever seen it? Do you know somebody who's seen it? What have they told you about it? This may be your way into the conversation. And for many children, you will not hear them talk about it. That doesn't mean they haven't seen it. I know this is a really hard one to hear me say, but it's true. Like I was saying, porn is a topic that does come up in my therapy room, and I haven't met a teenager who hasn't seen it. It doesn't matter what their gender is. It's at their fingertips. And when you stay curious, you're also communicating something really important to your child, which is that you're not disagreeing with porn. Now, you might think, I do disagree with porn and I really don't want my child to watch it. And I hear you. If this is what you're thinking, and I need you to accept that in the Current society we live in with Internet, it's going to be really hard for you to stop your child seeing porn at all. Stop. So what I would kind of suggest is that if your child sees porn, they're able to do so holding your words, your thoughts, your ideas in their mind. And that the more you stay curious, the more you stay accepting and understanding. You're going to get to hear more about your child's experiences. Because children are not going to talk to adults who tell them off or punish them for watching porn. They might still watch it. You're just not going to find out. They're going to get much better skilled at hiding it. So if you really want to be that safe person for your child, if you really want to be the person who can safeguard them and who can protect them when something might go wrong, you need to be the person who's also open to this. And rather than placing a judgment on it, you're going to try and understand. Understand it. So questions such as, how did you find porn? Where did you first see it? What did you think about it? Who do you talk about porn with? Or who do you watch it with? Who else do you know watches it? These questions are curious. And you're not going to go into judgment. You're just going to listen and it's going to help you because it's going to give you as much information as possible about the kind of content that your young child or teenager has seen and witnessed. And it may then offer you some ideas to protect them better. Now, when you're having this conversation, I also want you to acknowledge that it's awkward. Acknowledge with your child that talking about this topic is kind of hard for you. Maybe tell them, nobody talked to me about this, and I'm probably going to say the wrong words or say things are a bit embarrassing to you and to me, but it's okay, because I'm willing to have this conversation with you because it's important. Now, when we stay vulnerable, when we show our vulnerability with our children, we're encouraging them to do the same with us. We're giving them permission to be vulnerable, to get things wrong. There are no right or wrong words in this conversation. And if you've never done it before, you're not going to get it perfectly right. You might look back and go, why did I say that? And that's okay. These conversations are hard, and it's important that we still have them with our children. Now, when you're having the conversation about porn, I also want you to be Curious about what your child is curious about. So if they have seen porn, you might say to them, what you curious about? You know what, when you watch it or when you see it with your friends or when you have seen it before, was there anything that surprised you? Anything that made you curious? Did you compare your body to others bodies? Now this is really common for teenagers that what they're doing is looking at others naked bodies and thinking, am I normal? This is very typical for young boys, but it's also typical for girls. Often teenagers are kind of learning things through, through porn, things that they may never have seen before. So young women don't tend to see other vulvas. It's not the same as a penis, okay? They're much harder to see. And unless they've ever used a mirror, they've probably never even seen their own. I mean, if you're a woman listening to this and you're cringing at this, I would just invite you to think about whether you've ever seen your own vulva. And if you haven't, I invite you to do so. There is nothing wrong with it. It's just a part of your body. And if you, if other people have seen your vulva, really think you should know what that looks like for you. Seriously. And if some of this is what teenagers explore, which it is, it's others bodies, it's kind of like, can I use porn as a practice before I have a go at having sex with a real person? It can make them question their own bodies, their looks, their body hair, all those things that are obviously new and possibly completely unknown to children and teenagers at this age. What happens is they compare themselves. And for some young people, it can make them feel awkward or uncomfortable. It can make them think about the idea of having sex with a real person. Very difficult. And that's why it's so, so important to talk about porn and to talk about what's real and what isn't. Because like I said before, bodies are often cosmetically adapted, changed, but also filtered. And they're often hairless. And we need to talk to children about this. If that's the kind of porn that they're watching, then it's not really real. And it's really important that we think about where else your child may be able to see images or photos of real bodies. Now, that might sound really strange, but even some of the books that I have in my recommended list, although there's cartoons, there are cartoon vulvas and cartoon penises. Different shapes, different girths, different Sizes, different colors of skin tone. This is really important. And again, we have some evidence base and some research with studies particularly around women and young girls asking for surgical procedures to their labia. And that comes from watching porn and thinking that what they have on their bodies isn't right or it's ugly, or they have a sense that a sexual partner will reject them because they don't look like that person on the screen. So this conversation is really important. The comparisons of your child's bodies with those that they see on a screen, they matter. And it's important that, again, you give them permission to talk about that if it's happening for them, so you can think with them about how you support them through this. The thing that I say a lot, which is 100% true, it's not just because it sounds nice, is that children are more afraid of sitting alone in their unknown or with their own fantasies than when they hear the truth being spoken about. So when you're also having these conversations about porn, I want you to remember that talking about all these things is not going to make your child watch more porn. It's going to educate them in a way that helps them to be informed about what they see, if they see it. And often what we know through research is that the people who are more educated, more informed, those teenagers who understand the difference between reality and fantasy, fantasy, they're actually less likely to watch porn. They have less interest in it because they've understood it. And so having these conversations is also protective. It's not going to incite your child into watching porn. It might actually stop them from watching as much as they have access to. And finally, if you've been listening to this and think, oh, my God, but how will I raise this topic with my child if they don't ask me about it? What do I do? So rather than asking something like, have you ever watched porn? Which is probably not going to work, lots of children will say no. Even if they have, it helps to open up the conversation in a neutral way. So that might sound something like, oh, I listened to a podcast the other day where they told me that 1 in 10 children who are aged 9 have seen porn and you're 11. So that's made me really curious. Do you know anybody who's watched porn before? That is going to work better than you going direct into the question. And furthermore, when you ask the question, if your child says no, it doesn't mean you have to stop the conversation. You may say to your child, huh, that's really interesting. That you don't know anybody that's watched porn. You know what? I don't think we've ever talked about porn together. So I think we have to. And it's going to be a little bit embarrassing because even the thought of porn itself makes me feel a bit embarrassed. But I think we're going to have to at some point. So when is a good time for us to talk? Shall we do it now? Should we do it this evening? Should we do it on Saturday? It's really important that you kind of take control of these conversations, that you show up as like a confident parent in these conversations that are slightly awkward and embarrassing and may bring up shame for you and for your child, because the responsibility lies on us, the adults, to educate our children. And when we show up in this way, even though it's awkward, our kids often will just follow through. And it's more important to have the conversation than to avoid it because it's so embarrassing. Now, I'm also going to end by saying that some children will not want to talk to you about this. I would still try and offer them something like one of the books that I've recommended or, you know, leaving that door open and saying, well, I'm always here for you. But you can also say to your child, who would you feel comfortable talking to about this? Because it's a very important topic, and I'd like you to talk to someone. And that might be, I don't know, a friend's parent. It might be a doctor. It might be a therapist like me. Sometimes young people find it easier to talk to somebody who's not their mother or father. But I always, always would recommend that this conversation starts with you as much as you can, because it's going to be the most helpful. And finally, what I want to say is that when you are talking to your child about this, try and stay curious and listen more than you talk, okay? You want to explore, understand, make sense of things for your child, and try and do it as calmly as possible. Just remember that these conversations are also building a template for your child of the conversations that they might have one day with a child of their own. Conversations that you have never had, but are going to be building up their emotional understandings and their resilience and their ability to have difficult conversations as and when they pop up. These are skills that are going to have a really great influence on your child as they grow up. And it's going to be a lot more powerful than blocking their phones or, you know, stopping them from seeing their friends because as and when they see porn or it comes up, they're gonna have an understanding of what it is and how to navigate it safely. And that will be thanks to you. So good luck with this. You can do it. And we're coming to an end. Thank you for joining me on Another Talking Sense. As I said earlier, my first book, how to Be the Grown up, is out for pre order and I have a long chapter on consent, on bodies, on sex, and yes, even porn. So if you have a preteen or a teenager and you think this might be useful to you, go and have a look at the link in the caption and pre order it now. No money will get taken until its release in February. And I thank you so much for your support. As always, I like to end on a little mantra just to hold you for the rest of the week. And this week my mantra to you is I can bring my calm to the conversation. I hope you will join me again for Another Talking Sense. Until then, see you soon.

This holiday season, millions of families will pack their bags, load up the car, and head off for a family vacation. But not every trip is going to be somewhere fun. The American Red Cross responds to about 7,000 emergencies during the holiday season alone, from home fires to natural disasters, providing families a safe place to go when the unthinkable happens. But they can't do it without your support. Please donatecross.org hi, it's Paige Desorbo from Giggly Squad.

You ever stand in front of your closet and just say I have nothing to wear while you're literally surrounded by clothes? Because same so I started listing pieces I'm over on Depop and honestly, it's been amazing. You can sell what you're done with and someone out there will love it. And the best part about it is there's no seller fee, so the money you make actually stays in your pocket, which feels very chic. It's also insanely easy. I listed something while watching TV and it sold before the episode even ended. So download the Depop app and list your first item today because your old outfit could be someone else's new favorite. Depop where taste recognizes taste. Payment processing fees boosting fees still apply. For more info, visit depop.com hi, it's Paige Desorbo from Giggly Squad. You ever stand in front of your closet and just say I have nothing to wear while you're literally surrounded by clothes? Because same so I started listing pieces I'm over on Depop and honestly, it's been amazing. You can sell what you're done with, and someone out there will love it. And the best part about it is there's no seller fee, so the money you make actually stays in your pocket, which feels very chic. It's also insanely easy. I listed something while watching tv, and it sold before the episode even ended. So download the Depop app and list your first item today, because your old outfit could be someone else's new favorite. Depop where taste recognizes taste. Payment processing fees, boosting fees still apply. For more info, visit depop.com.