I Just Saw My Child Touching Themselves. HELP!

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Hi, welcome to Talking Sense, a podcast with me, Dr. Marta. I'm a clinical psychologist trained in family therapy and every week I answer one of your real life questions to offer you psychological understandings, ideas and suggestions to guide you. Before we begin, I always like to give you a little moment to pause and today we're going to do a box breathing exercise. This might be something you've already done before, but if you haven't and it's new, give it a try. This is my little invitation to you. I would like you to inhale to the count of four as you imagine the top edge of a box or square. Hold your breath for a count of four as you go down along the right hand side. Exhale For a count of four as you move from the right to the left along the bottom edge of this box or square, hold your breath for another count of four as you go up the left hand side back to the top. Do this a couple of cycles and notice what happens to your breathing and what happens to your body. And when you're ready. Let's begin.

This week's question is about masturbation in little ones and it's something I am asked about frequently. So let's have a listen.

Hi Dr. Marta. I was just wondering what your guidance would be on how best to address a two and a half year old who is rubbing herself or humping to self soothe on a daily basis. She hasn't, doesn't really do it in public areas. She does understand to do it at home, but obviously it doesn't really matter who's in the home. So you know, we could have a builder here and, and she would still do it in front of them. And.

We do tell her to go to her room, but it almost feels because she's reluctant and to be apart from us, it feels like we're punishing her for doing it, which I'm reluctant to do as well. And also occasionally she doesn't respond to us asking her to stop. So then you end up getting frustrated with the situation and feeling like you have to be more firm with the boundary. But again, that then walks into the realms of potentially sort of shaming her a bit, which I'm really reluctant to do. So yeah, I'd be really keen to hear some productive thoughts on how best to address it.

Okay, so this is a really, really common question that I've received both in my NHS clinical work and in my private practice and also on social, on my community, on Instagram. It is often not the case that I get asked this question from a parent of a little boy. I often get asked this question from a parent of a little girl. And I think that is an important thing to note and to think about. And the first things that I'm going to talk about in this podcast today is key points about sexual behavior in children and young people. I want to talk about what is normal and I want to talk about red flags because I think think these are really important things that as parents you should know and understand. As a trained professional working with children and young people, we get trained in safeguarding and we also get trained in what is appropriate behavior and things that we need to keep an eye out and listen into. That may be a concern. But as parents I Don't think the information is very easily accessible.

So.

So I'm going to talk about something that comes from, if you ever want to look into it a little bit further, the Brook sexual behaviors traffic light tool. And it's something that those professionals in safeguarding will use. It's something that I've used many, many times, both during a clinical session and following it, thinking about the case, thinking about the child, thinking about areas of concern, thinking about things that might be amber or red flags. And I think it's really important as a parent that you understand this. What I'm hoping to do on this podcast is not to alarm you. It's quite the opposite. I want you to feel equipped and confident with some tools because in order to understand masturbation at the age of 2 or at the age of 14, I think as adults we sometimes need a little bit of a mind shift. We need to think about what is normal, what is appropriate. And sometimes what happens is we have layers of our histories and our experiences that bring up shame or they bring up anger, or they might bring up some kind of embarrassment about sexuality and sexual behaviors in our children. And of course, what we perceive as sexual as an adult may not be sexual at all for a tiny little one, because children are really open to learning and they're incredibly cute, curious. And one of the first things that they want to learn about is their bodies. They're curious about how bodies work, they're curious at touching and feeling things, and they're really curious about differences in bodies. That is why often little girls are really curious about penises, and little boys are really curious about breasts and vulvas. It's not sexual, okay, in the early years, which is before the age of around 6, 7, what is happening is just curiosity, just a kind of urge to learn and understand. And therefore, if as adults, what we do is we layer our emotions onto them, we bring up shame, we tell them off, we tell them it's dirty or it's wrong, then we are telling them some messages about bodies, their body and others bodies. And we're also kind of blocking curiosity rather than allowing this to be an opportunity for education, understanding, having these big conversations with your child around sex and consent and privacy, which are really key to protect them, but also in terms of their future to really have like a healthy relationship with their body and other people's bodies. These are really important topics. And for me, when children get curious about bodies, look, touch or ask questions, it's your little bit of a way in to begin these conversations. So first, I think it's really important to understand the reasons behind a child's sexual behavior. So I'm going to talk about what's normal for different ages, first of all, and I'm going to do it quickly so it's not going to be very in depth. So if you're a professional in this area and you think, oh, she missed something, I apologize, I'm not going to try and do it perfect. I'm just going to try and give you information that I think as a parent, everybody should know. And then I'm going to offer you some kind of red flags, things to keep an eye out that might tell you, okay, this behavior isn't quite developmentally appropriate and there might be something else going on. Now, something else going on does not necessarily mean sexual abuse. Okay, I'm going to name that. Now, it doesn't mean that, but it does mean it's something to look out for. It may be something to have a conversation with a professional, which often will be a medical professional in the first instance, because there's so many reasons why children might be expressing or doing things that are not appropriate sexually to their bodies or to others bodies. So, yes, red flags are important, but remember, it's not all down to sexual abuse. There could be lots of other things going on. So it's really important to that you just hold these ideas in mind. And of course, as it's a podcast, you can always come back and listen to it again if it feels useful. And once we've had that conversation, which I'm going to try and keep very brief, I will go into masturbation of little ones and what we do. And I'm calling it masturbation, because that's what we call it. I'm going to explain what masturbation is, which most of you will probably know. However, let's bring it into our conscious, explicit awareness of what little ones are doing when they're masturbating, why they might be masturbating, and how you can offer them some understanding, some learning, some support to make sure that they're protected and safeguarded and they're doing it in a healthy way, and that it's not kind of overtaking their world. Because sometimes for little ones it can become quite obsessive. So let's have a little think about all these things. I know this topic can be quite tricky. So, you know, breathe.

Don't forget to pause. You can always pause the podcast and come back. For some people, these conversations can bring up loads of emotions that Maybe you weren't expecting, so it might just most surprise you, and for others, it might be completely fine. But sometimes when we're talking about these big topics, I like to kind of just remind you, you have permission to pause. You have permission to take a breath, sit down, you know, really think. Where are you listening to this podcast? And does it feel appropriate in terms of how your body might react? You know, really consider those things. Sometimes podcasts are the kinds of things that you can do on a leisurely walk and you're really enjoying it. And sometimes it be that a podcast brings up stuff for you, and you just need a moment where you can listen to it quietly, privately, you know, really think things through. So take your time, you know, remember, you have control over this. If there's anything that I say that sparks big emotions in you, just take a pause. So let's think about what's normal and healthy in children of different ages when it comes to sexual behavior. Now, this is not sexual activity, okay? We're not sexualizing our children. This is not about having sex the way that we think about sex as adults, which often is penetrative sex. What we're talking about here is sexual behavior, behaviors that have to do with our body, that have to do with pleasure. And children are born as sexual beings, and that's normal and it's healthy. Little boys will touch their genitalia from pretty much as soon as they can reach down there. It's explorative, it's curious. And little girls do this too. So what is normal between the ages of 0 and 4? It's things such as feeling comfortable, being naked, enjoying touching parts of their body, including their genitals. They may want to explore your body, so including your genitals or your body parts, especially. Especially if they're different from their own. And they're often interested in watching you get dressed and undressed. Okay? Bodies are an area of curiosity for little ones between the ages of, you know, one and four. I say zero, but we all know that newborns can't really make sense of the world yet, so it's more like up to the age of four. Okay? Now, children from the ages of five to nine. So these are children that have started to go to school. What you may notice is they start to ask for privacy when they're getting dressed, when they're getting showered, perhaps when they're going to the toilet. You may notice some masturbation in private, and they begin to show curiosity about sexuality. So they will ask questions about babies, about gender about relationships. Okay, again, these are opportunities for you around the age of 10 to 13. So what we think about the tween phase now, children may start to use more sexualized language because they've heard it, because they understand what sex is. They've hopefully had more than one conversation about sex. They may start to show an interest in a sexual attraction towards another, whether it's a girlfriend or a boyfriend or. Or it's both. Okay, so they might start to think about sexuality in terms of relationships. And again, they may masturbate in private. At this age, children don't tend to masturbate publicly. They very much know what it means and they have no interest in doing so. And then if we think about young people up to the age of 18, 14 to 18, what tends to happen is, you know, in terms of sexual exploration and curiosity, they may start looking at things like porn more actively and consciously. They may have clear and detailed conversations about sex with their friends, and they may start to engage in sexual activity with a partner. Again, that doesn't mean penetrative sex. There are lots of ways of having sex. It could be mutual masturbation, could be just touching and kissing. But it's a lot more sexualized in this age group. And it's normal if your child is doing that, as long as your child is not doing it with children who are older than them or younger than them. The age of consent in the UK for sex is 16. So of course some of these children will start having some sexual activity with a partner. But it's about 16 year olds having sex with 16 year old, not 16 year olds having sex with 14 year olds, which would be a red flag and illegal. And I'm going to talk about those things now because I think it offers some nuance to the things that I've said. So if anything has surprised you about what I've talked about, I think what I add now will offer greater context in terms of normal, healthy behavior and things that might lie just outside that norm.

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Okay, so some ideas around red flags and things to keep an eye out. So you might be concerned if your child is up to the age of four, masturbating in a way that is very compulsive or to the point where they hurt themselves. So what this means is that they're masturbating excessively like and it gets in the way of everyday activity and or they are causing themselves physical injury when they're masturbating. Okay, if they're pretending to have sexual activity with another, perhaps using a toy or something else, or they are forcing other children to engage in sexual activity with them, so that would be inviting children to touch them or to be touched, those things would be red flags and a really little one between the ages of 5 and 9. Again, this is school age. Just to remind you, often the red flags look a bit like engaging in sexual behavior with other children, particularly those that are younger than them. So for example, you have an 8 year old who's inviting a 6 year old to be touched or to touch them, or forcing them to do so, either aggressively or through bribes. If they are particularly doing this in hidden areas like a closet or behind a wall or you know, in a bedroom that they lock up. Again, that's a red flag because it shows that children are aware that this isn't quite right, but they're still engaging in it. So around school age it's about kind of sexual activity between children that is a red flag, which is very different from curious exploration of their own bodies in their own privacy. Between the ages of 10 and 13, you might be concerned if what you see is compulsive masturbation of your child, whether it's in private or public. If you know that what they're doing is locking themselves in their room for hours on end and you are concerned that what they're doing is masturbation, then that could be a red flag. Again, forcing others into sexual activity, particularly those that are younger, exchanging money or goods to have sexual Pleasure or to access something sexualized, including things like porn or sending or sharing images of themselves or others in a sexualized manner. So that would be like, you know, sexual images of their body, naked images on social media, that sort of thing. At this age, that would be a red flag. If what they're trying to do is kind of show their body to others in a sexualized manner. And finally, young people age 14 to 17, the red flags here would be about kind of more aggressive pornography, engaging in sexual activity with children who are significantly younger than themselves, like I said earlier, okay, so a 16 year old with a 14 year old, for example, and forcing others into sexual activity which might include some form of criminal activity. So I know some of those red flags will sound like obvious and some of them might feel a little bit more nuanced. I think the most for me, the key concepts are always in childhood and before the ages of like 14 to 18, if your child is engaging in any kind of sexual behavior with another child, it's a red flag. And if what you see is sexualized behavior in a way that affects everyday function, everyday activity, your child's quality of life, like it's become a bit of an obsession, then that's a red flag as well. So usually the things that look a little bit odd are odd. So what I often say to parents is follow your gut. And if you can't remember all of this or even listening back, you're not sure, it doesn't matter. I want you to follow your parental instincts. If you're concerned as a parent, that matters and that's important. So do go and speak to a health professional. If anything I've said has brought up some anxiety or some fears for you, the worst thing that will happen is that you'll get some reassurance from a medical profession that will say this is okay, this is healthy. But no one will look down at you for being concerned about your child's welfare or their safeguarding. Okay? So just remember that it's really important that if you're concerned about anything to do with your child, you go and talk to somebody and get things checked. Now let's talk about masturbation. So just to be clear, masturbation is self stimulation of the genitals for pleasure and self comfort. And children do tend to rub themselves when they start to figure out that actually that feels really nice. And they might use their hand or they might use an object. By object I mean often it's like the side of a chair or it's the floor and this is actually really normal, particularly in little ones. Okay, around the age of two is when you may begin to witness some masturbation from your child. And they might just masturbate like a couple of times a day, or you might see it just once a week. And it's often the triggers are often when children are tired, when they're bored, or they're under stress. Okay, now there might be other reasons why your children masturbate, but those are the main reasons. For little ones, an occasional masturbation from a child is completely normal behavior for toddlers and preschoolers. So most children will do this. They're being curious about their bodies, they're exploring. They're like, oh, that felt nice. So they try and figure out how to feel nice at times when they don't feel so nice. So when they're bored or they're stressed, it's a way of self soothing or when they're really sleepy because it feels good and it kind of may even help them fall to sleep. So they may continue to do this just because it feels good. So this podcast and this conversation is not about how to stop your child masturbating. Once children figure out that something feels good, they're likely to do it. It's about how you respond to this behavior so that it shapes a message around it that is healthy and helpful and how others react because this is really key. Okay? Masturbation is not going to cause any harm to your child. It's not going to cause them physical injury or it shouldn't. If it does, then that's a red flag. Okay, if it's not abnormal or excessive, it doesn't mean that your child is going to be an over sexualized child or promiscuous or sexually deviant in some way. None of those things are true. There is no evidence for this. It's only when we as adults overreact to masturbation and make it seem dirty or wrong or shameful or like it might cause them emotional harm, that we create a kind of narrative around guilt and shame, around sexuality and their bodies. And that is really unhealthy and unhelpful. So let's have a think. What do you do when your child starts to notice that their body gives them pleasure? What are the ways that you can talk about this with your child? The things that you can say that won't bring shame but will teach them healthy behaviors? Because one of the things that you can't really do is just ignore masturbation. If you just ignore masturbation, and your child is doing it, like, in your lounge in front of people, or like in this example when builders are around, you're basically saying to your child, you're allowed to do this behavior anywhere in front of anybody. And that is both unsafe and unhelpful. Because what children need to learn is that their genitals are private and getting pleasure from their bodies is absolutely healthy and normal. But no, you can't do this in front of everyone, because that's unsafe. And we need to keep you safe and protected. This is the beginning of teaching your child consent around bodies, their bodies and other people's bodies, because it's also not okay for somebody else to masturbate in front of your child. And your child needs to learn that the only way to do that is through boundaries and having conversations. So let's have a think about that. So first things first, let's set a boundary with our children. And this doesn't need to happen in. In the moment. Okay? If setting boundaries is something you struggle with a little bit, maybe you find boundaries mean or harsh. Maybe you think, if I do this, then it's a punishment. Maybe you need to think about the conversation you're going to have with your child outside of the moment where they're masturbating or giving themselves pleasure with their body. So for me, it's about sitting your child down and talking to them about it. So it has to be age and developmentally appropriate in terms of language. So it's something really brief, really simple. It might just say something like, I know it feels good to touch your vulva, and it's okay to do it, but it has to be done in your bedroom or in the bathroom. It's not okay to do this in anywhere else in the house, and you cannot do it when other people are around. Those people include me, your other parent, builders, aunties, friends, whoever. The reason for this is that it's a private behavior. It's something we do privately. Do you know what private means? Okay, so this might be the beginning of a conversation about consent. And if you've got a really tiny one, I would also suggest that you show them something like the Pantasaurus video, which is on the nspcc. And I will link to this caption of the podcast. It's a really lovely video with a really catchy song and little ones get it. And it's about Pantasaurus saying, you need to always keep your pants on when there are other people, people around. It's such a helpful way of children getting a Visual and an idea of what is happening and this idea of privacy around their genitals. Okay, so this, this conversation is not shaming. This is how you set a boundary. First you talk about it, you communicate it with your child. You're doing some teaching, some education, you might show them that video. You can get some books around bodies. Again, I have some lovely recommendations in my recommendation book list that I'm so happy to share with you. If you need them, they'll be in my caption. Just have a scroll. But it really helps children to have books and examples and ideas about the fact that genitalia is private. Okay. Our genitals are private and we shouldn't be showing them or letting other people touch them. It is private. And then comes a conversation about consent. So this conversation comes first and then I want you as a parent to think, when are the times when your child is most likely to masturbate? Is it when they're tired? And if that's the case and they're in bed and they're going to sleep, I would ignore it. They're not harming themselves or anybody else. This is completely safe. They're in a safe space. I think their bedroom and in bed are night is or at nap times is a safe space for this. Just ignore it, let it happen. Is it when they are feeling some kind of stress because something different is happening. So maybe you have different visitors in your home or something's happened to their schedule that's thrown them off. If this is the case, then what your child needs before they start to self soothe is to learn how to manage stress. And for that you can preempt it. You can think, okay, this is a moment which might be stressful for my child and it might need a bit of self soothing. So what would be another way of offering your child self soothing that doesn't include masturbation? Masturbation is healthy and it's okay. And you could also decide to just ask your child to go to their bedroom. And it's also nice to offer your child a different toolkit of coping strategies that aren't just about masturbation. Because your child can't masturbate anywhere whenever they need to self soothe. So is it a bit of quiet calming time? Is it doing a little activity with you, particularly when they're so little? You know, something like reading a book, having physical contact with you? Are there sensory toys that you could have around and make it available at these times when your child is feeling really stressed? Some of those toys might just be you know, little like stretchy balls or the little poppers or even blowing bubbles, which is really good because it helps kids breath change, which is what will calm down their body. Or do you notice the masturbation at times when your child is bored? Possibly doing a passive activity such as watching a screen, which often means that children will just start to look for stimulation elsewhere. And guess what? Their bodies are easy. They're right there. They've got hands, they've got their genitals. It's something that's really simple to access. If it is boredom, then it's about you being able to catch it soon enough to invite your child to do something else. There needs to be no shame, no blame, no punishment. It's about kind of distracting your child from this behavior and moving them on to something else. So you might say, oh, I think maybe you've watched enough TV for today. What do you think? Should we go do something else? Do you want to go and try that jigsaw we were doing together before? Should we do that? You want to move your child on to a different activity and you also want to keep an eye on. Is this always happening when they're watching a screen? And if so, can you give them something to fiddle with their hands, something that keeps them stimulated and entertained? Again, it might be like something like a papa toy or some kind of fidget toy, but these things can be really helpful in those moments where your child's got fidgety fingers and they need to do something. Okay, now finally, if your child is masturbating in a public space in your home and you want to offer them something healthy and positive, because like I said, it's not appropriate to do it publicly. You just need to stay calm and you just need to repeat what you've already communicated with your child at a different point in time. Keep it simple and brief and help your child get there. So it might sound like, oh, it's okay that you're masturbating right now, but you need to do this in your bedroom. So you can either do something else while you're here in the lounge with us, or I can help you get to your room. If you'd like to keep masturbating, what would you like to do? And if your child doesn't move, you know they keep masturbating, I would gently say, okay, I think you want to keep masturbating, so I'm going to help you go to your room. And if they're really little, like a two year old, I would Pick them up and say, I know, it's okay. I'm just taking you to your bedroom and you just leave them for a little bit. Now, a little bit is not half an hour, okay? Just to be clear, you want to leave them for a little bit, ask them if you know they're okay. You can close the door or like half close the door. And I would say to your child, I'm here for you, okay? When you're finished, come out and go back in. Give them a couple of minutes, open the door and be like, how are you doing? You all right? These are little children, okay? We're not going to let them masturbate for like half an hour on end. They need to know that there's a boundary to this behavior and that although they're allowed to do it, it needs to be done within kind of healthy limits. So after a while, you want to get your child out of that situation, out of their bedroom a little bit. Like I said, when they're doing it passively around watching a screen again, you want to engage them in something, okay? So it might be something like, oh.

Oh, you know what?

I was gonna bake a cake. Do you want to come and help me? Let's go make some muffins. I mean, I made that up. And you're not gonna be making muffins every day, but can you pull them out? Can you invite them to do something with you, join you in an activity? Make this moment a moment where they connect with you and do something pleasurable, but that's not necessarily with their bodies because as we've said, this is either happening because they're bored, they're tired, or they're stressed in some way. So having that interaction with you is one of the healthiest ways for them to move on from this. Finally, I just want to add that by the age of five to six, children won't normally masturbate in public. It's just not something that they do because they become much more self aware and they're aware of this being something that's private and that they should only be doing it in their bedroom or in a bathroom. So if what you see is that your child is still doing this at the age of five or six, and you have set boundaries and they're doing it publicly, then do go talk to somebody, okay? Go talk to your GP or somebody else in healthcare and get some reassurance and support for what might be going on for your child. If what's happening is that you, you're getting very angry or very embarrassed or, you know, inducing shame around masturbation and you think actually that's the issue that's happening here, then do seek support for you. Don't be embarrassed about this. It's very normal as an adult to feel shameful about something that's actually very normal and healthy. And that shame that you carry has likely been passed on to you. And you can let go of that shame. And sometimes you need to have a little bit of support. And I would say that would come from having a little bit of therapy. Doesn't have to be long term at all, but it can be really useful just to get you in a place where you can have these conversations with your child in a way that is appropriate and healthy and offers them boundaries and teaches them about their bodies and about consent. And this is going to help them for the rest of their lives. Waves so, you know, don't undermine the work that you're doing as a parent. This is huge and lots of us did not have this growing up. We may have had shame or been told off or been told that you know your penis is going to fall off if you masturbate. And doing something different with our kids is really difficult. So these conversations are not easy. And I just want you to like, you know, be aware of that. You're not alone if you find this really difficult and you can get help and support for that. And it often doesn't take very long to feel a bit more empowered and a bit more confident in this. And we're coming to an end. Thank you for joining me on another Talking Sense podcast. If this topic has been of interest to you, I would warmly invite you to pre order my new book, how to be the Grown Up Up. It's available on Amazon and I have put the link below in the caption. I have a whole chapter on sex and an in depth chapter on consent that you might find really helpful because it's full of evidence based theory and practice alongside real life case reports to kind of illustrate some of the strategies and ideas that I talk about. So feel free to pre order and it'll be with you as soon as it comes out. I always like to end on a little mantra just to hold you for the rest of the week. And my mantra for you this week is I'm not alone in this. I just want to remind you that this is a really frequent question and I get this a lot. You're not alone. This is very normal and typical for little ones and I hope that helps to reassure you and give you some helpful steps forward. I look forward to seeing you again on another Talking Sense. Until then, see you soon.

Foreign.

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You ever stand in front of your closet and just say I have nothing to wear while you're literally surrounded by clothes? Because same so I started listing pieces I'm over on Depop and honestly, it's been amazing. You can sell what you're done with and someone out there will love it. And the best part about it is there's no seller fee, so the money you make actually stays in your pocket, which feels very chic. It's also insanely easy. I listed something while watching TV and it sold before the episode even ended. So download the Depop app and list your first item today because your old outfit could be someone else's new favorite. Depop where taste recognizes taste Payment processing fees boosting fees still apply. For more info, visit depop.com.