Dr. Drew Makes a House Call at the Scott Adams School | Extra Credit with Erica July, 2026

Welcome. This is a— I called this an after-school special, and I loved those growing up. So I love— Dr. Drew said that BJ caught his attention the other day on a stream BJ was doing and said, hey, I'd love to talk about mental illness and politics based on something, something like that, that BJ was talking about. So here we are. Well, you know, we have about Half an hour-ish, and I'm going to really let Dr. Drew set us off here. So welcome, Dr. Drew, and welcome, BJ.

Thanks, Erica. And if those of you don't know Erica personally, she's a force to reckon with. She is muscling, muscling the Scott Adams School every day. And those of us that want to be contributors are certain to be. It's in the hands of Erica. So thank you for that, Erica. Thank you for setting aside the time for this. My schedule is insane. Insane right now. I actually have to go. I'm on such a crazy schedule. Kat Timpf, you know, from Gutfeld, is a dear friend, and she's coming to our— I'm in New York now. We're meeting her in Southern California tomorrow, and then we're going to Kennedy's wedding in somewhere, somewhere way away. So it's sort of a lot of crazy travel coming up.

That's great.

But BJ, you said something on Sunday that caught my attention. I think it was Sunday.

Okay.

And you were talking about envy and grievance, right? Do you remember that topic?

Yeah.

It may be something you have touched on before, but what caught my attention was not even so much the topic, because people throw it around quite a bit, but 2 things occurred to me. One was the certitude and the sort of vehemence with which you were delivering that. I thought, oh, there's a story here. I want to know more about how you got to this place. And then, I want to share with you my story because I have had a ringside seat to how we got here with that stuff. And so, I'm wondering first what you have seen.

I've seen a lot. I ran for Parliament in Canada. I got involved in politics just because I was a small business owner and I was just frustrated with the slow walk towards communism in Canada. I know that sounds hyperbolic, but philosophically—

What do you mean hyperbolic? We're on the fast track here all of a sudden, out of the blue, because of people pushing that direction. All of a sudden someone took it all the way there.

That's right, but this was going back 15 years ago. So I saw it on campus 'cause my business was on the university campus. So, you know, I decided to get involved in politics, see how I can help maybe affect change. Boy, that was naive, right? But the reality is, it's interesting. Once you get involved in politics, you see how the machine works. You start to understand people's pressure points. And I put the people into broadly— there's more than 2 camps, there's many more, but broadly I'd say there's the people who are altruistic in politics, and then there are the people who are the opportunistic people in politics. And I think it used to be weighted towards altruism generations in the past.

Mm-hmm.

And that has now shifted. And you get the people who are the extreme opportunists, and they now recruit them out of university. And it's almost like they look for, you know how religious cults look for lost people?

Yeah.

They look for those lost kids on campus or the lost people who get involved in politics. And I think that is broadly, obviously, it's not everybody, it is definitely an overwhelming majority. And those people, You imagine, you get involved in politics and what do you have to do? You have to, pardon my language, really just kiss ass. You just gotta kiss ass on the right team that's always escalating within the party structure. And I think that's where some of the envy comes from. When somebody comes along from the outside like I did, like Trump did, like many other people, so there's many other people try to get involved, and all of a sudden it's, well, hey, You haven't put in your dues and your time. You're gonna listen to us. It's the exact opposite of what Scott Adams was trying to advocate for, which is the person with the best idea is in charge.

But, but BJ, envy is a case, particularly these days, a carefully hidden trait.

Oh yeah.

So how did you pick it up? I'm guessing you have, beyond the sort of operational presence of envy in politics, You seem to have some insights in the people that are manifesting this envy. And what are those?

It's the underlying philosophy of the people who get involved in politics. So one of the podcasts I produce is for a very well-known professor. Do you know the name Stephen Hicks?

I've heard of him.

Okay, so Stephen Hicks famously wrote the book explaining postmodernism, I don't know, 25, 30 years ago. He's wrote a number of books on philosophy. He's a philosophy professor, recently retired, and we do a podcast together. And really, when you hear Gad Saad or you hear Jordan Peterson talk about the encroachment of postmodern philosophy into our politics, that's Stephen Hicks's work. That was his doctorate thesis. And the basis of postmodernism is envy. That is the base characterization. So that becomes the operating system of the people who are promulgating this, and that is what's— who's infested our culture.

Is he Reconsidering postmodernist nonsense?

Uh, who? Uh, no, no, no. He's opposition. He's in opposition to postmodernism. He's the one who's explaining why it's so dangerous.

Got it.

And what, and everything that he predicted 30 years ago has actually transpired. Like it started in the arts in the '60s.

Yeah.

It got into education in Canada in the '80s, and now it's the highest level. Paul, that's why during the trucker convoy, I knew everything Justin Trudeau would do before he did it. Why? I understand digicom, I ran for office, and I understand his philosophy better than he does. And there's so many of them like that in the left right now.

There's a great book, I wish I could remember the name of it right now. Her name was like Plumstart or something. She's a, it's like, it's essentially Bad Ideas is essentially the title.

Okay.

And it chronicles all that development of postmodernist thought. And I remember about 10 years ago, I was listening to a podcast with a French philosopher, and she was going, what is wrong with you people in America? This reminds me of psychoanalysis vis-à-vis psychiatry. Psychoanalysis captured the American psychiatric system for 50 years. No other country on Earth did that except Vienna for about 20 years, Austria.

Yeah.

We did it for 50, and it ruined psychiatry for decades. This French philosopher was saying, What is wrong with you Americans? These are French philosophers from 75 years ago. They have no relevance. They were proven to be inconsequential, marginalized, a waste of time. What are you doing with these people? And that now we base our entire philosophical system on that. I wish I could come up with the name of that book. It's like, it's— Bill Maher gave me the book, and I've read it twice now. I'll have to look it up and put it up.

Is it Helen Hollis?

Something Ideas, and the word is crossed out. And it says malicious or bad or something.

Dr. Drew, is it Helen Pluckrose?

Pluckrose. It is Helen Pluckrose.

Okay.

And what is that book? What is Helen Pluckrose?

Let's look it up. Go ahead, we'll find it.

So, BJ, I saw this happening to people. I saw what was happening internally to people that made all this attractive to them.

Okay?

So, this is a long story and there's lots of tributaries to it. But I thought I would try to share it in one place because it's worth kind of knowing about it because it's historically relevant. So I had a ringside seat from 2 vantage points. One was I did a radio show 5 nights a week where I was talking to essentially 14 to 28-year-olds, or maybe primarily 16 to 24-year-olds, and hearing about their lives and the profound interpersonal trauma that they went through for 20 years was Unbelievable. People literally didn't believe me when I would say what I was reporting. And it went from the sexual abuse of children in the aftermath of the '70s, which was the sexual revolution. And people forget that part of that revolution was perpetrated on adolescents without anybody contemplating how they would behave. And then children were dealt with as, oh, they're just sexual beings like adults. They're just the same, the same. You hear some of that same nonsense now in regard to a lot of topics. And they were perpetrated against. And some of those kids, maybe somewhere between 30% and 60%, became perpetrators themselves. And they started perpetrating on other kids. So we went from adult sexual and physical abuse, abandonment, neglect, to child-on-child sexual abuse and physical abuse. And this went on. I listened to it every night for 30 years. Alongside of that, here I am working in a psychiatric hospital, And I was there, I mean, I spent, God knows, 30 years in that hospital working. I eventually took over their addiction medicine services, but I was there doing general medical services for about 10, 15 years. And the admitting form in those hospitals would always have the acute psychiatric problem, which is like depression or mania.

Yeah.

And then what's called the Axis II, which is the personality disorders. And I watched across the '80s and into the '90s, the personality disorders going from all over the place, A, B, and C categories. We have these clusters of personality disorders. People are familiar with Cluster B. I'll mention why. But we saw a lot of A, we saw dependency, we saw C, we saw everything. By the early '90s, only Cluster B, which is the narcissistic category.

Wow.

Borderline, sociopath, narcissist, all of them, everybody had a Cluster B diagnosis. And that was a massive, massive change. And I thought, well, of course, that's what happens when you traumatize kids. It's called a narcissistic injury. It's how they protect themselves. They build these narcissistic structures. And borderline in particular was going nutty cuckoo at the time. Borderlines were having their way with the legal system at that time. They were engaged actively in lawfare themselves. Remember all the crazy lawsuits and liability?

Yep.

That was all borderline. And the law, the legal system caught on to it and started putting, you know, things in place where, hey, frivolous lawsuits, you pay for it next time. It stopped. But these same individuals then became lawyers and then became judges and then became politicians. And that is what I saw in real time. I didn't see people getting better. I saw— and one of the huge liabilities of Cluster B personality is envy. It's empathic failure. So, I care so much. No, they don't. You don't really exist to them.

That's right.

And then envy. And envy is the most dangerous human emotion that there is. Now, that's a chapter. I will leave you there. I'm wondering if you have any thoughts about that.

No, I agree. And I see how you're forming that line with those data points. And I agree 100%. Something else that I noticed, we're coming at this from different angles. In my scenario, it was right around 2012 and 2013. It's like someone turned on a switch on the university campus as one of the main campuses in downtown Toronto. And the nature of my business, we get to know the student and the faculty through the time, through their tenure while they were there. But something happened. Somebody turned on a switch. All of a sudden it was the green and pink hair, blue hair sort of phenomenon, the piercings, victimization narrative, and it went into overdrive. And what was very—

That's the borderline stuff. That's the—

That's right.

Yeah, that's the, the I'm a victim, and it's a very dangerous, unhealthy position to take. And you start acting out as opposed to looking in and correcting the trauma. And part of the that acting out is something called projective identification, which is I take all these disavowed horrible feelings that I have and I either accuse you of them or actually push them into you.

Yeah, I've received many of those comments myself. And listen, I'm pretty like libertarian and open and stuff. Like, I, you know, you don't have a successful business if you're, you know, have professors coming in and you're attacking woke people all the time. You can't function that way. That's right. So you got to get along with them. But something that's interesting that evolved over time is, you know, some of the social conservatives get frustrated with me because I'm very socially liberal on certain issues. And something happened, you know, talking to my sister-in-law who's very senior in public health here. So we had some interesting conversations during COVID as you can imagine, and I got some insights to what was happening behind the scenes. But one of the phenomenons that she's been dealing with— her area of public health deals with younger people in elementary to, I believe, junior high school. And they deal with bullying, harassment, suicides, attempted suicides, that sort of thing. And she said, what's very interesting, she told me this last year or 2 years ago, she said, when we have a case, when God forbid a child commits suicide, we get access to all of their messaging apps, their phones, their data, all that sort of stuff. And I'm pretty sure you know where I'm going with this. She said to me, so we look at all their communications. She said, Do you know what all these kids are talking about? They're not talking like, like we did as kids, you know, girls, boys, dancing, music. Cars was big for me. Sports. She's like, none of those conversations. All they're talking about is, what gender am I?

Oh my God.

She said it's crazy. They want— I think maybe I'm bi. This person's not gonna like me if, uh, if I'm gender fluid. I have to choose a gender. I feel like a boy today. So it's all— this is why, you know, the people who understand and learn from Scott Adams, how much we are persuaded by our environments.

Yeah.

You can— that is such a data point where you can see the cause and effect on the ground within public healthcare, how it's— I don't know if it's intentionally being weaponized. My tinfoil hat tells me maybe it is, But that is what's driving all of this. So it was on the university campuses in 2012 and 2013, and about 10 years later, we started to see this within younger kids in school. It's crazy.

Well, do you— Dr. Drew, is that by design? Like Douglas Murray wrote The Madness of Crowds, and he just said that this kind of confusion is by design to end civilizations, let's say.

I don't— I think Scott would say there's somebody in there doing something, some— what did he call it? Professional-level persuasion or industrial persuasion.

Yeah.

But I take it back to the individual psychology again to say one of the hallmark features of these Cluster B disorders, particularly the borderline, is an unstable sense of self. Unfortunately, because of all this ideology surrounding everything, you're not allowed to help these people form a stable identity, whatever gender. It's like encourage fluidity. That's not good for that population. And so, yeah, I think we hit a certain threshold in terms of people with these problems. And then remember what's going on at college campuses in terms of who the teachers are now. I mean, that's hit an absolute—

Absolutely.

Crossed the threshold. a Rubicon with that quite some time ago. And so, they are all about this, living in zero gravity, not having a connection to the real world. They can think anything they want is a good idea. And thankfully, you've got guys like Gad Saad in there trying to tie it to things like evolutionary biology. And, oh my God, how dare you? How dare you tie it to something that we can objectively measure, objectively look at? But, the next chapter of my story is I started, and I've heard people start to talk about this now, which is why I think I jumped on your observations. I started thinking, where in history have we had this much childhood trauma? And I could only find really 2 places. People don't understand how bad it's been. It has been bad. One was pre-revolutionary France, and the other was the Aztecs. The Aztecs had this thing called the Codex, which was the systematic abuse of children. And they were trying to create warriors. To be fair, they wanted violent maniacs. That's what they were trying to create. And what happens when you have kids that are traumatized like that, there's a lot of aggression, as we're talking about, and a lot of projective identification. And one of the strategies that human mammals use to manage that is they form into crowds. And you're talking about the madness of crowds. There's many, many books, whether you go to Le Bon or Gustave Le Bon, or you start talking about Mattias Desmet and the mass formation, it's all the same stuff that this population with these proclivities form into crowds and they will scapegoat violently. I wrote a book on narcissism in 2010 or '08 or something, and I wanted to put a chapter on this in there then. And the publisher said it was too speculative. No one would get it. I thought, God, I wish I had it, because I know there's going to be mass formation and there's going to be scapegoating. The guillotines will come out. And there was no social media at the time. I didn't know that the social media would be the public square where the scaffolding is built. And we have seen it writ— we continue to see it writ large. And it's one of the most unhealthy things that humans can do. It's why, frankly, one of the reasons I'm a little worried about what we're doing with Dr. Fauci. It's— there's a, you know, everyone wants satisfaction and they want answers and they want truth, and I do too. But if you start wanting to scapegoat, you're engaging in this phenomenon again, and it's not healthy. And if you learn nothing from history, once you bring out the guillotine, everyone goes on the guillotine.

So bring that—

He brought him out, he ended up on the guillotine.

Yeah, no, I agree.

Can you bring that back to Dr. Fauci? 'Cause that's a current-day example people can understand. Why isn't he the scapegoat?

He is easily a scapegoat, right? I mean, he affected tens of millions of lives. He could easily go public and say, I did the best I could. I made some errors, but I was really in good faith trying to help. We had this thing. I didn't know how bad it could get. And you could argue that he was trying to hide this and that. If he just came forward and said that, there would be a lot of satisfaction, but there is a significant number of people They want to see him in jail or something, something really violent happening to him. And what I'm saying is, yes, that might be justified. It might even be justice. But once you start engaging in this scapegoating behavior, even when there's good reason for it, it just doesn't end well. It just doesn't. I'm telling you, it's— lawfare is sort of part of that as well. Lawfare is part of the scapegoating mechanism. You know, it's— it concerns me. It concerns me.

Well, not to take a complete left turn, but I can say, speaking for myself and other people I've spoken with, so when no one ever has to reap the consequences of their actions, which as the American general population sees, it becomes more frustrating watching to be like, time after time after time, people are breaking laws, perhaps causing millions of deaths. And when no one has a punishment, for lack of a better word, I think it makes the crowd more infuriated. So I feel like, you know, for me and you, we'd be in trouble, but then you see these people and nothing happens, and I think that's bad for our psychology.

Look, Michael Gates is running for Attorney General of California on the slogan, make crime illegal again.

Please.

And he's right. Yes, I agree with you writ large that philosophically, the DSA is going the other way, right? They want to get rid of prisons, get rid of police, get rid of everything. And that's why this is happening. That's why there are no consequences for many of these things. I'm just saying, watch your scapegoating mechanism. There's a guy named René Girard that famously wrote about the— he called it mimetic passions, but it was the It's actually a little more the way he was a literary sort of critic, but he put his finger on something very important, which is that when we form mobs, we will scapegoat and we're not happy until there's blood. And it's some of the most pathological behaviors that humans can get into. So, it's one thing to go, hey, let the legal system take care of it. Hopefully, they will. Fine. But, He's got immunity. He was given all these things that are going to prevent that from happening. Be frustrated. Don't let it happen again, but don't insist on a scapegoat for this. That's all I'm saying. It's just an instinctive concern I have. Look, I want the truth, and I would love him to apologize too, but I'm also not into forced apologies. This world, you got to apologize.

Yeah.

No, no, no, no, no, no. There's various ways to take accountability. Apology is the least effective, but it's the way narcissists like to evoke their envious aggression on you.

Owen and I— Get on your knees in front of me. Right. I agree. And that's sage advice. Don't get out over our skis because we want to see blood, so to speak. We don't want to become that either. Owen and I feel the same where we're just like, there's not a word appropriate for Dr. Fauci? Like, it's— is he more than a narcissist? Is he sociopathic? What is it?

Well, let's remember, uh, there— to me, there were 2 or 3 major problems with what he did. One was the actual authority in charge of that operation was Dr. Robert Redfield, who was in charge of the CDC, and he pushed him aside And wouldn't include him in any of the meetings and just usurped authority.

He—

Fauci was the head of some, like, research grant organization way over here. He did not have an authority over the CDC the way Redfield did. And Redfield is now starting to talk about it out loud that he was— and Scott Atlas, another one. These people were marginalized by this guy. Now, that's a kind of a narcissism. That's a kind of a certitude. He did it during HIV and AIDS, and he was actually quite useful during AIDS. I'm telling you, he helped us because he stayed within the confines of the medical profession. He was not going out in the media. He was not lit up about himself. He was just giving us guidance and ideas as we went along. But the second problem was how lit up he was as a person being— and I see this a lot from physicians. When they take care of a celebrity, they're like, oh, they get so excited. That's how they overprescribe. That's how they get manipulated. Celebrity is no different than anybody else. The second you treat them differently, you've done them a disservice. That's it. They're just another patient. And his being in the media was so exciting to him. Oh, the most famous man in the world, blah, blah. He shouldn't have been at all impressed with that. It should have been, good, I get the word out. It's an instrument. It's a tool. I'm doing a job here. But you could see it was lighting him on fire.

Yeah.

That adulterated him. And then finally, for me, the Chinese influence. And we really don't know the full story with Wuhan yet, but the chapter, the part where it goes off the rail for me is he sends his lead assistant over to China. Everything that was coming out of Wuhan was being manipulated by the CCP and the PLA, the People's Liberation Army. And the Arsenault— you forget how cozy the relationship was in the scientific community at that time between China and the US and Britain. We were all collaborating on biotechnologies. I was part of that. And when there was just— there was a lot of talk about how the center of gravity of biotech is moving to China, we got to get with it. They're so good. They know what they're doing. They're so great. They're so smart. And we bought everything they said and had no understanding of the CCP and the PLA's involvement in science, which it was deeply involved, we now know.

Right.

And when it came to COVID, they did, they put out dumb videos that made no sense whatsoever. They were completely fabricated. Everything was fabricated. And they sent a graph out to President Xi, look at all the COVID now it's zero. We have zero COVID in Wuhan.

Wow.

And our contingent of Western scientists went over there and went, oh my God, these guys are geniuses. We have to do exactly what they're doing. And we did. And it was, and the Chinese must be laughing to this day.

I also think there's something else that's important that you've touched on. This is from the political angle, seeing how it works on the inside. Anytime the— we'll call them the political mob, maybe the political class, if you will, the lobbyists, the chiefs of staff, the EAs, all the staffers. Every time they all coalesce and just point to one person, you should be suspicious.

Of what?

you should be suspicious of that person being, as you described it, the scapegoat, right?

Oh yeah.

And the perfect scapegoat that the political class often uses is they'll find somebody who is dislikable, who's perceived as arrogant, who has some of these perceived dark triad traits, because they know when you know what hits the fan, they'll be able to turn the mob against them, and they'll remove themselves of all the responsibility and speculation. Dr. Fauci is not and was not a dictator. He definitely behaved. He gave the perception that he thought he was. But there is an entire administration. Like, what about all the people in the Biden administration who propped him up, who gave him—

And did their dirty work on social media and manipulated and canceled? And by the way, Francis Collins, in my estimation, was a more heinous operator. He was the one that used the words like, we have to subject people to these devastating takedowns. Yeah, yeah, get them. You know, he was, of course, collaborating with Fauci. But Francis Collins, he's also the one that said, we didn't care who we hurt, we just had to stop that virus. That's mad doctor shit. That's mad doctor stuff. And Dr. Drew— In public health, they have no mandate to do no harm.

That's right.

Public health does not include a mandate to do no harm. And that is disgusting. And because of the wrinkle in our Constitution that gives them fiat authority in an emergency, They can take our naturally God-given rights away from us, and that must stop.

And Dr. Drew, would you say— would you characterize this period, in all your years of experience in public health—

Yes.

Would you characterize this as another example of the Dilbert filter works? It's not that everybody was malicious. There was just a whole bunch of incompetence. The left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing. The political parties were fighting for trying to make the other side look bad and all that sort of thing? Or was it just, you know, one puppeteer at the top who decided he's the dictator, you know?

No, no, yeah, yes and, yes and. Yes, of course, it's human foibles fully, fully laid bare. And so many things were laid bare by COVID. I mean, I'm sort of grateful for some of the stuff I didn't know. Now I know. And one of them is we have to fight for our freedoms. And at my age, I did not expect to be thinking about that kind of thing, 'cause my entire life I didn't have to think about it. I always heard military people saying, you know, you have to fight for these things. Like, okay, sure, sure, Dad. Poor grandpa. Go ahead. We have to. And medical freedom is the last thing I thought we'd have to fight for.

Well, you know, we have this whole community and, you know, me and Erica are going to do an episode on this, on Bitcoin. That's very libertarian-centric sort of thing. And I would— I've been in Bitcoin for many years just as I like tech, right? I like tech. I understand finances. But so I got into it for that reason. You'd always hear the hyperbolic claim of, Well, you know, when the government comes in and takes your stuff, I'm like, that's not going to happen until it happened to us in Canada. And it makes you realize that, like the Americans always say, you have your freedoms as long as you can keep them.

Yes, that's Benjamin Franklin was famous for starting us off with that statement, essentially. And yeah, I will— I am— I try to correct course and apologize wherever I've made mistakes. And one of my stupendous mistakes was saying that the Patriot Act, they need to watch. Who cares? I'm not doing anything wrong. I don't care if they have to watch us. I did not understand where it could go. I had a faith in our government that I should not have had. And we have to start with stuff—

That was the fog of war. And now we all know better. And it's great because we're awake. I have a question. I've been dying to know this.

Okay.

Okay.

This should be good.

Is getting our— so we get most of our medications manufactured in China.

Yeah, yeah. They're bringing it over. They're bringing it back. India's a lot of it. India's a lot. It's most of the— it's really most of the generics.

But do you trust it? And why should you trust it?

You know, there are standards here that are maintained, and I hope the organizations that are responsible for maintaining the standards are doing their job. I think they are. I mean, I take 2 blood pressure medicines. I'm not aware of having any problem with it. It seems to be working right. And all my patients, when I Apply pharmacology, it does what I expect it to do. So I think for now we're in pretty good shape. I do very much want us to bring it stateside. I do want us to bring it home for sure.

Yeah.

'Cause if we get into a real big problem, they will cut all that off for sure.

Well, they, you know, Scott was big on, you know, the fentanyl issue. And I try to explain to people, picture a massive football stadium full of 70,000 people and a bomb from China dropping on it every year. And if you saw it that way, You would be like, oh, well, we're in war with China.

Yes. And why— the reason people— I don't understand why people don't see what's happening on our streets. It's so vivid to me. These are my patients. I could help these people. I know how to make them well. Bobby Kennedy knows how to make them well. He's got to sort of thinking about it, making a plan, God willing. But the fact that we allow them to die on the streets is negligent manslaughter. Yeah, it's just what it is. I think I talked about that last time I was in here, did I not?

Maybe. I've heard you talk about it.

Yeah.

Multiple times and through the pandemic, it was great always listening to you. And I love— all right, so you're the perfect example. When the facts change and the information changes, so should your opinion. And I watched you do it.

Bayesian reasoning. Update your priors, everybody. You assume the best that science can do, the best, is ascend to an approximation of the truth. It never gets the truth. We understand that, but it's always gonna change. And we may have paradigm shifts that move us completely in another direction. Be prepared. Update your priors. Be open-minded. Yes, apply the understanding that you have at the moment. Apply it carefully, but be ready.

Yeah.

And I think we should be practicing apology and practicing changing direction. It's an important skill. It's important for people to see it, important for young people to see us doing that, because we are in some crazy waters right now. Did you find the name of that book, by the way?

People should read it. Yes, it is It's Critical Theory, but critical's crossed out to Cynical Theory.

Cynical Theory, that's what it is. Cynical Theory.

Cynical Theory.

And it chronicles this whole thing. The 2 authors are brilliant. They're both physicists, I think. And they tiptoe into this territory quite, quite in a way that's digestible, but with incredible wisdom.

So, 2 quick things, Eric. I think you'll find this interesting. So, just to touch on the where men—

I have 15 more minutes here. I think I'm good.

Okay.

Nothing has caved in on me yet.

Where pharmaceuticals are manufactured. So we have a company here called Apotex, and Apotex is a massive manufacturer in— they manufacture generics predominantly in India. And shockingly, the person who ran Apotex at the time advocated for Justin Trudeau to be elected. And the reason was because the Conservative Party wanted to ban manufacturing in India and keep— make sure manufacturing was done, you know, states in Canada.

In that example, my dad used to call it It depends who's— he's from the old country, or his family was. He said, it depends whose ox is being gored.

That's right. That's right. And by the way, that's the same owner of Apotex, Barry and Honey Sherman, the ones that— the billionaires that were killed that nobody found out. And no, there is not any correlation for anybody in the chat. Has nothing to do with that. Legitimately, there's no correlation there. The other thing is I wanted to ask you, what's the cure to envy as somebody with your background in psychology? How do we address it?

Well, fundamentally, first of all, when patients— I've said this always— when patients behave like— when people behave like patients, you have to treat them like patients. And the way we would treat patients that were acting out their aggression is with a show of force, not violence, but just a steady wall of people saying, no, no, no, no, no, no, stop, stop, stop it. You can't just let it run because it will escalate and it will end poorly for everybody, including the patient. You just get it, you surround them and you go, no, you're not doing this anymore. It's like what they could do with the street people. They just, nope, come with us. We got something for you. Here we go. We're going to make you better. Let's go. That's all you got to do. You just, let's go. Let's get out of here. We've got a nice place for you. You're coming with us. And you don't have to kidnap them. You just show them a show of force. They'll come. Trust me. People are desperate when they're in those kinds of conditions. So show of force, number one. Number two, somebody's got to manage all this trauma. We have really good techniques right now. I talked to my son today who's in training for being a psychotherapist, and he goes, wow, it's just all complex trauma. I go, yeah, you better get good at EMDR because we do have techniques. It's sort of a hypnotic technique, just to take it back to Scott. that really quickly help reregulate trauma. And we need to have an army of people out there. It has to be identified as what it is. When somebody is acting out aggressively, it's not, oh, they care so much. No, no, no, no, no. Stop it. Stop, stop. It's not— we don't then— and by the way, a social worker is not who I would call upon to fix that up. We would bring in a lot of big men in white uniforms.

Yeah.

Surround the patient. And they would calm down. They would feel much better. But a social worker, this is the thing that they're— this focus on social workers is the craziest freaking thing to me. They're not trained. These are psychiatric patients. It's like asking a physical therapist to do orthopedic surgery. They're not trained to do this work. This is the most complex medical psychiatric condition somebody can get themselves into. You need highly trained physicians and nurses, not social workers. This reliance on social workers will maintain the status quo, promised. I said that at a conference once. I gave a— in Austin, I gave a lecture, a very quick lecture to a group of county leaders from all over the country. And I said, stop it with the social workers. And you could hear the room go, and they all afterwards, they're like, well, that's what they did before. And that's what they told me to do. And it's like, yeah, stop it. Stop it. What are you doing? They, they're not equipped. They're not equipped. You need the surgeon. You need the real knife to come out.

And you also touched on where I thought you would go. I think it's relevant to this audience too, um, is the idea of the impact and use case for hypnosis. So I'm trained in hypnosis the same way Scott is, although I haven't been doing it for 40 years like he was doing it.

Yeah.

And I've actually used it a lot over the past few weeks while my father was in the hospital to try to reframe his experience. That's not something you can do with people who need, you know, clinical help like you're describing. But I think with a lot of people in our lives and our families—

Yes.

Many of the techniques that Scott mapped out, you know, pacing and leading, reframing, entering the illusion, that sort of thing, that goes a lot to reaching friends and family who are maybe a little bit lost and not listening. That's your gateway, your entry point to make them comfortable enough just to have a conversation. You have to agree the first time, but just Slowly bring them out of that. And I think that might contribute massively, not to the extreme cases, but to society broadly.

I agree. I completely agree. And I'd like to know if you have any resources for those of us that are not highly trained in hypnosis, because Scott was my training. Is there some website or something we can listen to? I'm intrigued by all of it. And Scott was working on us too, by the way. Just, yeah, I would go, I would go, Scott, something happened to me this morning and it was you. What are you doing? What are you doing? He goes, I'm always up to something.

Always.

I go, what? But what is it? Goddamn it, what are you doing?

He's in his garage rubbing his hands together with his cauldron. Oh yeah.

Yeah, my, my hypnosis instructor, I'm about to do their master's course. Yeah, uh, he does this exercise, uh, every day you go to his course. And it's wild. After— I never have deep dreams. I never remembered my dreams ever. And then after I did the last course, I have never had such vivid memories of my dreams. And that comes from a technique that he was using in his course.

Yeah.

There's a— maybe a— I don't know if there's a good book to start with. There's maybe— well, you might get something from this. Reality Is Plastic. I can't remember the name of the author. Uh, it's— it might lend you down that path. I also— my hypnosis instructor, uh, he came to my school when I was in like, uh, high school, and, you know, 30 years later I end up taking his course. Very well known, Mike Mandel, which Scott often talked about. Yeah, his hypnosis cards.

And who was the other one? The, uh, the industry, uh, one he was worried that they government was hiring. Chaldian? Is that the way?

Oh, Robert Chaldini. So yeah, Chaldini and his team, it's 5 of them. And by the way, just for the little political stuff, just to reaffirm what Scott has talked about, because I think many of us had this thesis when we heard this was happening. Once we knew Chaldini was on Hillary Clinton's team, all of a sudden we all thought, uh-oh, that's not good. And everything. And I think that's where TDS comes from, because you can— it— but I think it's difficult for traditional medicine maybe to accept this. But I believe, at least what I've seen, I've put people in like an Elsdale state, like they're like this, their hands up in the air, their legs up in the air, and I can't get them out of trance. Like, it takes me a while to get them out of it. And once you do that, you realize the power of it.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, I think you can, if you understand how to reach people on a subconscious level, you can over time cause a degree of mental illness. I think that's what's happening. I think that's where the envy comes from as well. But I don't know, I don't have any— there's no scientific proof.

We need an antidote.

But yeah, but Robert Cialdini's books Influence and Pre-Suasion are really good entry points in kind of the salesy side, the sales techniques that are used. And then you inevitably go down, if you're interested, go down the rabbit hole and you gain so much from actually doing hypnosis training. It really helps significantly. Might help you too.

Do they hypnotize you as part of it too? They put you under and things?

Yeah, it's pretty wild. And the first time, the first time they're like, you know, we're gonna hypnotize him. Like, yeah, sure you are. Okay, boom, I was out like a light. Well, out like a light, you know. I was aware of what was going on. And I said to him, yeah, but I could have woken up anytime. He said, but you didn't.

But you did not. Yeah. The perception— well, the thought is they're not in control of me, right? That's your brain doing that. That's right.

And Scott was doing like, you know, the simultaneous sip. Why is everybody so emotionally tied to it? Why? It's very simple. That was a hypnotic script. And that's the power of a hypnotic script. And we won't be able to rationalize and say, no, no, we we're not going to be able to ever accept it. But our subconscious knows it. It's pretty wild how it works.

We also always talked about how physicalizing, doing something physical together ties you together.

That's exactly why he did. What'd he do? It started everything. Bum ba bum ba bum. Well, it was always the exact same. Through repetition, he brought you into his frame that you would be— he could sell you anything if you were— if you bought into that frame enough. He was amazing. Yeah.

Oh my God, you got— you're making me miss him so much.

Yeah, tell me about it. Um, so Dr. Drew, anything? I just don't want to go too far over with you.

Yeah, I got to get going here. Yeah, turning out. Um, what does this say? 7 stages of civilization collapse. Sounds uplifting.

Gotta be careful reading the chat sometimes.

I know. I do a streaming show called Ask Dr. Drew on Rumble and YouTube and everywhere. Rumble's a fun place to watch it. It's 2 o'clock Pacific on Tuesday and Thursday and 4 o'clock on Wednesday. My tech guy got sucked into the Maha world, so he became the tech guy for the Maha conference they do every week. So we're probably going to go to Monday, Tuesday, and Thursday at 2 o'clock Pacific. And, uh, as I said, Kat Timpf is joining me next week. And today I can tell you I have Jordan Schachtel. I get great guests.

You do.

Um, hold on here. This is not good pod.

That's okay, we're easy casual here.

Easy casual.

Yes.

Now, of course, I cannot find it, so let me find it here. Um, there it is. Jordan Schecktel, Jeff Charles, Michael Gates, the guy I was telling you about running for, um, Attorney General, who I support.

Orange County.

Jeff Charles is going to talk a little bit about Newsom's, uh, indiscretions. But by the way, in California, people are thinking, you know, they— in, in other times, that would be kind of the end of his run. But now people are like, compared to these DSA people, he's starting to look a lot better.

But he's pretending he's half DSA. I mean, everything's a fraud with him, but—

Everything.

Everything. I just shudder to think. And I hope that we pull it together, the Republicans pull it together anyway for the midterms and then for the presidential. I don't, you know, we'll see how it shakes out. We don't know who's gonna be in it. I wish we didn't have to talk about it. You know, like the day Trump gets elected, we're like, oh, what about '28? It's like, ugh. When are you getting married? When are you having a baby? It's like, all right, people. Um, tell Kat, please, I am so excited about Juan, her, her new one-eyed cat. And listen, sometimes that's the best way to handle grief, is to just pour your love into another critter. And we know she loved Cheen so much. And, um, you know, everything with her dad and her illness, and—

She's been through so much, so much, but she's doing pretty good right now.

She's amazing. She's amazing. And we absolutely love her. Dr. Drew, thank you so much for coming on. And, you know, I'm just going to hunt you down again. That's the way I roll.

Thank you for being that force to reckon with. And BJ, thank you for cooperating and joining me here. This is really interesting to me.

No, it's my pleasure.

You got to get that reading list and the list of all those names. We need to maybe put that out somewhere.

So. All right. The other thing about envy, what I've always done, because I grew up around very wealthy people and their lives were a mess, so I always tried to tell people, having friends who are lower income, that when you see people who are successful, that is your indication that it's possible for you too.

Of course.

And I think if that becomes the broad message that we sell to people, we may be able to, to pull them out.

That's your Canadian brain because it's always been the message here. Yeah, you could do that. You're free to do it. Go do it.

Anything's possible. Yes, it's the American dream. All right, you guys, thank you so, so much. Have a great weekend, Dr. Drew and BJ. Thank you so much for being here. And we'll see everybody tomorrow at the Scott Adams School. Thanks, everyone.

Thank you. Bye, guys.

Thank you. This is great. Bye-bye.

Thank you.

All right, I'm gonna sign off. Thank you, guys.

Bye, guys. I'm gonna kick you both out.

Bye-bye. See you soon.