How to Build an Authentic Brand w/ Susan Finch | RevIntel [Archive]

Well, we're live now and we can talk all about it, so I will hand it directly over to you, Suzanne. Who are you? What do you do? And why do you do it?

I'm Susan Finch and I do many things, but primarily I make people look good online and on stages.

Okay, why?

So because I want them to have confidence and to— if they're going to invest time and money into their marketing strategies and marketing presence and events and all that. They want to stand out. I want them to be memorable.

So what do you think is the biggest problem in the industry of content creation, content production, repurposing content? What is the biggest problem that you're seeing companies make?

Right now I'm seeing them leave too many things on the table and not utilizing what's given to them. An example, when people like you are on a podcast I produce, like Market Dominance, guys, we give what we call a boost package. And it has hashtags, graphics, posts, everything pre-written. And everybody says, oh, thank you, that's lovely. I give it to the marketing team and it never goes out.

Oh my God. Yep.

This happens all the time. And I'm guilty of it myself once in a while where I was on a show for Paul Fariga and just to reproduce, I said, did I already talk about your show? He says, no, you already did. It's okay. I said, I couldn't remember. So I'm going to do it again because I want to make sure that I link back to the episode and to get that mileage out of it. But a lot gets left because there are so many ways to use content and such a glut of content that people just kind of like, yeah, get to it. And because it doesn't really nag at you, it just sits there. They leave it and it doesn't become— it's tedious. And it does not become part of, you know, the regular routine in the week. So am I able to focus it better when I'm taking medication? Yes.

Me too.

You know, because otherwise I'm like wandering all over the place. But, and I even know with my team, I'll get on— I said, guys, I told you I will pay you to engage on LinkedIn on our behalf. And you're not doing it. Why? What? Well, I was doing this. Why? So I don't— that's where the fall down happens. It's everybody doing their pieces, especially when they're not fun. They're not interesting. It's tedious. It's rote. Even though it's different episodes, different content, it's the same kind of little tasks. And automating it through all the channels looks like automation. It has to be fresh. And you know it. And I know you can tell. And I am so sick of the glut of posts because people are checking. I got it done. Got it done. It's automated.

Exactly. You're very right.

But it shows. And I'd rather— and I would rather have them not post it than to post crud that wastes my time.

I'll ask you this. I'm guilty of it. I'm guilty of it too. And one of the reasons is I paid somebody to start the— so at first I partnered up with my ex-co-founder and I said, let's do this podcast. Freaking years to get the damn podcast going with my co-founder. So I eventually just said, because there was supposed to be all these things and these times, and I was like, you are just wasting time. Let's just start and just go for it. And then it will improve as we go. And I started in January, February-ish. Again, we booked every single week and never made it to the damn podcast, like with my co-founder. Until I started to do it with somebody else and I said, let's just do it. We started recording it. Now this person went above and beyond and I'm talking way above and beyond. They created a landing page, they created the Spotify, the Apple, the Amazon. They put it on— we were on YouTube, all the YouTube Shorts.

Like what I do for the guys.

Freaking like a huge job. And I was shocked to see how much was being done. And because he said he was going to do it for free, I was like, Okay, well, look, if you want, you don't have to do that much, but if you want to do it, like, I'm not going to object to it because it's getting the thing off the ground. And it got to a point where when I had to start paying for it, the amount reduced, the volume reduced, and the cost to maintain something where I wasn't building— and I'll— we'll go through this too— building revenue streams off of the production of content because I hadn't got to that piece yet. It was just $2,000 in the, in the negative, $2,000 again, $2,000 again.

Yeah.

And yeah, because it's so hard to see like a tangible revenue-linked result, you're looking at engagement metrics. Those are things you want to focus on which are different. And I got to a point where it was either do I cancel and stop or do I do it unbrushed then try to learn how to get it done and then kind of start modifying as, as I go through. And I ended up getting to a point where I would just record the episode like me and you are doing right now and try to keep it as crisp as possible. And there's no editing in any of my episodes. I just download it and put it into YouTube, and then just so it's live, I make a, I make a thumbnail. And then now there's this AI software that I use that you just post the link into this platform and it creates 35 videos with captions, with hooks, everything. Now there is a penalty and a consequence for this, this approach, and I'll tell you what it is. My YouTube gains hundreds of views on the videos, which is good, but when you repurpose the content and may— and have it sit on my LinkedIn, it goes nowhere. TikTok, it was doing well and now it's stuck in 200 jail. Then Instagram, then now you've got Threads and now you've got X and now you've got Facebook. So you're like, oh my God, there's so many. So how do you, how do you find the happy medium of, let's say somebody wants to start, they're looking at you. Finally, Suzanne's on this. She's done this for years. I want to produce a podcast or I want to produce content, but I'm stuck in— I don't know how to edit, I don't know where to start, I don't have the budget. Where do they get their feet wet?

The editing, you know, you were bringing up some other things. I'm going to take you off a little bit because what you were talking about, all those venues, the thing that is the worst— two things are the worst. One is the exact same content, same post everywhere. You get penalized and you really get penalized by Google and some of the others because all you're doing is copy paste. They don't like that. They want you to tailor it to their venues. They want the video to be slightly different length by 3 seconds even, but it needs to be slightly different, especially if you're doing the same clips. Got to change the headline. You got to change things up or it looks like repetitive and you do get punished.

You do. I've been punished.

Yes. So even though you're putting, you know, and I'm not trying to be derogatory here, but a glut of content out there from one episode, it still needs to have some nuances. Otherwise, you just look like you're just shotgunning everything out of here, barf it out, barf it out, barf it out. So there's that piece of it. As far as the editing, if you have good speakers and guests, Fantastic. You don't need to spend a lot of time editing. You can do the simple things. You can even edit in YouTube.

Yep.

And you can get rid of certain things. I mean, if you have no other skills, watch YouTube videos on editing in YouTube. And at least it stays high def. It— you're using their stuff. As we know with the Google, anytime you use their stuff, it makes them happy and they reward you. So algorithm-wise, Use as much as you can there. Post it in Google My Business, post it on, you know, those types of things. Post it in a map location for your guests. Go at it.

These things are the most important things and the most beneficial things you get when working with an expert like yourself, because where I've always found the most intelligence when working with a new vendor, service provider, partner is their expertise on the macroeconomics of the market and how the platforms work and how the algorithms work. Algorithms work because, yes, it's one cog to be able to create the content at scale, at large volumes, even to be able to post at large volumes. But to understand how Instagram is more for this and X is more for this and LinkedIn is more for this and this content is designed— you can have the same content, but the writing and the copy has to be different across all of it. That's where I think your expertise as, as a, as a production studio becomes invaluable. So at what point in your life did you discover you had this spark for creating content or repurposing content for companies?

When I went to school originally, it was to be an author of children's books. I wanted to tell stories, stories that would be fun. They didn't have to be a lesson, much, you know, much like the woman who wrote Ramona the Pest, Beverly Cleary, that kind of thing where it just entertained, it was memorable, it got shared later. And I've always enjoyed doing that. I come from a large family and you tell your story, you don't gossip about anybody because your story is the most important and you want to keep the stage. And in a big family, you better have a good story or you get knocked off the stage and somebody else takes it.

I like that. Yep.

So the stage is like Thanksgiving dinner, Christmas Eve, whatever it is you wanted to rise above. And so we learned how to tell stories and make them engaging. I've always liked that. But I've also noticed too, as I ran across professionals throughout any career or job that I've done, position I've held, they're usually not aware how interesting their stories are. They take it for granted because they're living it. And people would tell me something in passing, it's like, wait, back up. You got to expand on that. I want— tell me more about that thing. And they're like, what? It's nothing. I said, no, really. No, I don't know anybody that does that. Tell me about how that happened. And I want people to start to look at themselves. I even— I recently spoke to some high schoolers. Freshmen thinking about a marketing pathway. And I said, okay, for one thing, I want you to know that sales and marketing need to become best friends. And the next thing is every other thing that's here that you are looking at from law enforcement to video production to legal services all needs sales and marketing.

Every one of them.

And so what I'm going to talk to you guys about is not marketing your business, but marketing you and learning how to find your story starting now.

That's powerful.

Refine those stories because that is what connects people. And you know this in sales. I am the reluctant salesperson. I didn't realize what a salesperson I was until somebody said, do you know you're in sales? I went, I guess I'm telling stories and people buy my stuff because they like the stories. So when I had a fine art gallery, I killed it for my artists because every piece of art had a story and I forced them to give me a story that I could tell. And then I could tell their story because people are buying something they don't need. Big difference than software solutions and other things. But to convince them, because they need to take this story to be able to justify to their friends why they spent that money on this thing. And so, they have a story to tell. So, I'm giving them that, and that's what they were buying. And so, I've carried that through, and that was in the '90s. So, I've carried that through into everything I've done since.

Wow. So what, at what, what age was it when you discovered it then? If you could pinpoint an age of discovery where you said—

20, 25. When I was 25, 25, I realized, I realized I could sell anything with a story to anybody.

And then where did you first come against, come up against your biggest challenge? You've taken on this endeavor to be in sales, creative, following a marketing path and just again, the ability to tell a story. Who's this? There's a— you probably know the, the guy, Dan— Don Glover or something like that. But he talks the StoryBrand. Do you know who I'm talking about?

Yes, I do.

Name again?

Yes. Yeah, I don't know his name, but I know the StoryBrand.

From him, I read his book and started to follow the villain, the, the, the climax of the story. The hero, and my sales did also spike because I transitioned into that sales environment. But then I started to see more complexities in the problems, and the story wasn't enough. So what was your biggest challenge that you came up against? You've now gone into your own pathway at 25, you've discovered you have a knack for this. What was the biggest challenge and first challenge you came up against Um, falling art sales.

I mean, that was because it was retail. And from the end, at that point, I had some other personal things going on that I made a huge shift. I started a nonprofit. I wanted out of retail. I wanted out of, period, that, that section of my life. And I got back into advertising and PR.

Okay.

And so I had a position, some, bless Greg Smith's heart, he hired me to be in his accounting department just to get me out of where I was. Bad position for me. I am not an accounting person ever. I mean, ever. Not my thing. But he realized I could work well with clients. I could sell them on projects. I could get them to come along with us on the journey. And then I learned web programming too, because his programmer quit and I had to learn it on the spot. So that was the time. So I learned very well at that, that big shift. How do I bring teams together? City of Anaheim was my first client. And so I had many departments that were all autonomous yet not, and helping them all work together towards the same goal yet separate. And so I learned I had that skill as well. To be able to coordinate, communicate what the ideas are without being too nerdy, but still accomplish those goals. Where that biggest fall was in that agency is they decided after a few years to pull it in-house.

Okay.

And so we lost that account.

Oh, wow.

So we, we had a few cities, but that was 60% of our business. And at that time, I was 2 weeks away from delivering my daughter. And the man who I was working for, he said, you know what, I'm closing it. So I'm closing the business. I said, okay, I have a baby due in 2 weeks. And he said, you're going to be my first client. I mean, I'm going to be your first client. And I will bring you whoever's left. And then you can go get your own clients too. So that was a challenge. But it was the best launch, a gift I could have been given.

That is incredible. All right, so you got to tell me more about that because that's actually one, one of the questions is describe a big failure or setback that helped you become the person you are today. So if you could dive a bit deeper into that, you're about to have a baby, you've literally just been smacked in the face with probably the most exciting news that I'm closing the company down and Right. You have to find a way to persevere.

Yep. And so I immediately reached out to the client list, and, you know, he sent emails out, just so you know, we're doing this, and Susan Finch is now going to be handling the accounts. And I was already working with most of them, which helped. And I also had to reach into some other people from my kit bag and say, gosh, I haven't talked to them in years, let me see what they have going. I put it out there on LinkedIn, this is what's happening. Or no, it wasn't on LinkedIn. Um, where'd I even put that? I think I just sent emails to everybody that I knew in Orange County and just said, this is what I'm doing. And it started to come in. And then I was involved with a PR group. And this is one of the biggest things that I don't think people do enough of. And this is in-person networking. And it is still valuable. And I know we're all about Zoom and we can do that. And it's so convenient and that works okay. But there is nothing like sharing a drink or sharing appetizers with somebody over a table for spontaneous conversations that you can float around in a room and you can hear a speaker and you can talk about these things and introduce each other and, hey, come here, I want you to meet this person. Here's my guest. There was a PR group that I got involved with that still is sending me clients after all these years and my moving to Oregon. Because they know me, they trust me. They know I've never let them down when they've given me a referral. And so staying involved with those groups— and I've tried many groups here, and I had a couple that were fantastic, and then they floated away. But that one is one of my most valuable organizations I'm in, even though it's not sales, even though it's not really direct, it's not marketing per se. But they're PR people and a lot of them are getting towards retirement age and they're trying to pass off their clients and they want to still look good and they don't want to necessarily take on all these new technologies as they're getting close to retirement. So I have some fabulous connections of people that I trust and love and I'm able to still get business from that or at least more doors opened. So that helped in that recovery. And I was able to build it up rather quickly, you know, enough to cover us to be able to do what we needed and then to see what was next. It took the stress off from me. I had the flexibility because I'm working at home. It was just a very interesting time. That was 2001.

Wow. So 2001, I had— we had just moved to New Jersey from the UK. So I was born and raised in the UK. My dad got a job at, uh, Goldman's in like the '90s, and they moved us out to New Jersey. So we were in New Jersey from '99. 2001, 9/11 happened, and, uh, for the next 15 years we stayed in the US. And in that time, just— I think I lost my train of thought for a second. I lost my train of thought a second, but in that time, we— when we moved to the US, I started to find out that— yes, I've lost my train of thought. Let me backtrack 2 minutes. So we were just at the— what, what, what, what was the last point where you just— what you was at?

I was at, you know, that's when I took that leap from networking to start—

I was trying to recover the time, the time, the time gap. So in 2001, I was a freshman in high school, just figuring out like how life in America works. So I do remember how, how much time ago that was. In that, that, that period though, that 2001 and beyond, what was the first milestone that you achieved that helped you really like helped solidify your position as a business owner, as this is for me.

It was interesting. I, through that group, I, that PR group I was telling you about, in 2008 I ended up with a client. James Obermeyer was his name, and he needs somebody helping with a website for a membership site. That's what membership sites were all the rage, you know. And we would do, we would do those awards every year and all these things to be able to, you know, build our list, you know. And then everybody caught on. But from there, he gave me the freedom to try initiatives and try new ideas and new things to build lists, to reach out, to build people. And that's when, you know, we— I've been podcasting. I started podcasting with him after doing videocasts with friends, um, 2012. So I've been— and so, and evolving though, that's just it. It's a tactic. And we were talking about ways that professionals like me know how to promote shows and things. Part of it is constantly staying up on that moving target, constantly. Okay, this is how I've been doing it. Okay, but that's not good enough now. Now, how are they doing it? And do you need that or can you stay where you are? Because there are a lot of trends that's like, go away. You know, they're just dopey little trends and, you know, everybody's doing it, but it doesn't accomplish anything. There's so many things and some things just aren't quite there yet either. You know, we can get into AI and all that. So I started with that, but some hiccups, more recent hiccups that happened, you know, not just whenever there's an economy downturn and everybody pulls back all their budgets. There I am, you know, saying, don't you have any more money for me? How come we're stopping? You know, because I'm not— I am not one to force people to be into a year contract with me and hold them to that, because that doesn't feel honest to me. I don't— I like the accountability and the constant review and engagement with my clients. I'm a boutique agency. I don't want to be a mega agency. I really love, truly love my clients. And so I had that hiccup. And then I've had other upticks. I'm in an uptick right now. I have an organization I'm working with and it's— I'm doing all brochures and branding and teaching them how to do videos, teaching them how to be on camera with confidence, teaching them how easy it can be to— hey, you just had me do this brochure. So there's 9 videos. Why are we making this hard? And then you can send them the brochure and they have something to hold that they like. It's pretty and it's not a bill and you're not asking for money. You can follow up. So those types of things, coming up with those creative ideas to help them have something other than buy my stuff, sign my contract, list your property with me, those types of things. The more we can learn how to be of value, the longer we will last, the more adaptable we can be to not be so locked into, oh, I do this thing. No, that's just a tool and a tactic. What— pull it back. What do you really do? And that's why I open with, I make you look good online and on a stage and sound good. This is what I do. But I use many things to do that, and they change every year.

Of course, of course. So how do you— so people that are watching this and who are going through building a company, they're going through those peaks and troughs, times get hard. Right? You get lonely. I've been in many, many multiple, multiple situations over the past 4 years where no, it's like nobody gets me and nobody understands me. And only until I got onto podcasts and spoke with other CEOs, other business owners, I was like, in the nicest way, these people are just as freaking crazy as me. They're just as weird as me. They stay up the same hours as me. They think like me. And it took a long time to figure that out. And then you have to be a stand-up person, not only for yourself, but your family, but then also the community of people you surround yourself with. How do you recommend or suggest people remain resilient? They remain confident, they remain strong when everything feels like it's crashing down on you.

That's a great question. For me, it has been around surrounding myself with other people at my level, in person, in my neighborhood. I know it sounds nuts because I work from home. This is an office in my backyard. And I need that to be— and they're in different industries and do different things. And I need to check in with them to see where they're at, what's happening, because I don't want to become out of touch, for one thing. And I also want to know that It isn't always smooth sailing. And these are people that will make me laugh about any bad situation I'm in. I need people to help me stay light, because if I get mired in the spiral, we reek of desperation and nobody wants to talk to us. You can hear it in a voice. You can hear that. And it's as simple as, you know, gosh, smile when you're on the phone.

We hear it. Very big.

Take a deep breath. If you're in a crabby mood, don't pick up the phone yet. But pick up the darn phone when they call. Pick it up. Say hello. You never know where it's going to go. And I've made a point to— I have a list of people I haven't talked to in a while. And I see it in QuickBooks. You know, go through things. Gosh, I wonder how they're doing. I will have a happy thought about somebody and call them randomly. I don't want anything else from them. I saw this thing. It made me think of you because It's very important. It is, because suddenly it's not transactional. Suddenly they are a person in my life rather than a way for me to make money.

I think a lot of people struggle, I think, and I've been guilty of this too, but I think a lot of people struggle with, am I being annoying? Am I— when I'm calling, like, for me, I have those spontaneous thoughts too, like I'll be looking at a picture, I'll be going through my phone and I'll see a picture and I'm like, oh, I wonder how this person is doing. And sometimes I do call them and it's just like, oh, I'm doing this. Oh, well, did you know about this and this and this? And it ends up being like, it's not even the transaction of the conversation for monetary gain. It's, it's the transaction of dialogue and conversation. And then those endorphins that are released when you have that conversation with that old-time friend or that old-time content and they remind you of something, a happy moment of something good. And that raises those endorphins. So I completely get where you're coming from. So surrounding yourself by good, with good people is, I would say, probably the most effective.

Good, honest people.

But what do you do if you don't have those people around? You are isolated in a way. And you, let's just say you're, you're quite isolated. And you're looking for that new group or looking for that tribe where you can feel welcomed and similar to those, what do you do then?

So then it's finding like hearts. So in Orange County, California, I have a nonprofit. We make blankets for kids that are ill and abused. Binky Patrol. We give them to CHOC Hospital, which is the Children's Hospital of Orange County. Huge hospital. It's like Doernbecher's in Oregon. I mean, it's one of the big children's hospitals. And I also had a client, Wahoo's Fish Taco. Wahoo's Fish Taco made the best fish tacos and they're surfers, but they would feed the people at these charity events. And at CHOC, there was a group called the CHOC Padrinos, which means grandfather. So, the godfathers of the hospital were all these CEOs in Orange County. So, they all had this common bond of wanting to help the kids.

Wow.

And so, they all show up with that heart, that servant's heart. Every one of them would have been a treasure to work for, not one jerk in that group. And they would get together all the time, but it's finding that kind of group. Where are your people? First, what makes you sing? What makes your heart— where— and is there an organization that you can help make a difference of however it fits your schedule. So, these guys couldn't do a lot during the day, but their assistants could, you know, do stuff and help and they'd place ads and they'd do this stuff. They'd send out mailers, send them to their contacts, but they could show up for these events every quarter and talk about the progress and hear the updates and knock around ideas for the golf tournament, for whatever the next fundraiser, for the next equipment they're going to all try and get funding for. And they would all help with that. But that group was tight and there were like 150 of them.

Wow.

Different, different size companies from small all the way up to enterprise. And they were tight and all gave each other referral business and all crisscross and made introductions and helped them. Hey, I have an opening. Do you guys have anybody? Have any interns I could hire? That's the type of thing. And that's in person. And it is. Participate in something physically to make a difference.

So for me, I would find that so cool to find. I've— that's been one of my dreams, which is to create a community of like-minded CEOs that— and like the first element of it, that want to do business and can do business. They're not just yappity-yappy kind of people. And then on top of that, there's like when you're— when you do— I've gone through meeting not the amount I'd like to, and, and not the amount I believe I'm, I'm at yet. But I've been to crowds and there's always just some underlying or ulterior motive that they want, and then that creates the guard. And then even in relationships with friends and family members, you come up against these situations where you're like, how many more people can I openly trust and be like flatlined with. So what do you say to those people that are constantly flatlined with damaging relationships, uh, relationships that they do more harm than good? How do you find that CEO community then if you don't know even where to start?

Ask other CEOs. Find somebody that you are connected to that can introduce you to somebody. Somebody that you see there, follow them first. Do not connect with everybody on LinkedIn. Follow. They don't know you. Why would they connect with you? Because all you're doing is getting more access to their people. We know that game. So, follow them out of respect and then make nice meaty comments and ask them thoughtful questions. And if you see them and you're like, I love what they post, I'm going to keep following them and keep following them. Share their stuff, and then try and connect. Say, I've been following you for a while. You seem like the type of person— I'm wondering if I could book 15 minutes with you to just ask you a few questions because I am struggling with blank. And most— if you are that direct and that vulnerable, you are likely to get a yes.

I would agree. I think that's one of the number one things that have helped me overcome my ego is vulnerability. And I think where I was able to just say— I think that was the biggest reason we were very successful in the first stages of our business was I went to a lot of profiles that I had followed for quite some years. I'd seen they had very good recommendations and I said to them, hey, I'm starting a business. I have no idea what I'm doing. I'm looking for mentors to spend 10, 20 minutes with me, tell me a few things to look forward to and a few things to look out for. And, um, if you'd like to do this, send me a thumbs up. And I met a new person probably every other week for 3 years, and 90% of all of our business was direct referrals from those introductions that I made. So it was huge for me. So connections, yeah, connections and just being vulnerable and just being open and honest about these things has been a massive impact for me. And I think a lot of other people can benefit from that too. But how do you overcome adversity? How do you stay resilient outside of other people? What kind of interior habit-forming things do you— like, you should do to stay resilient, to stay strong, to stay confident? What do you need to find inside you to do that?

I'm going to refer to a book that came out recently from Anthony Iannarino, The Negativity Fast.

Okay.

And it is an outstanding book to help train yourself out of bad habits. And I thought I was pretty good at it, but he gave me some other things to think about and incorporate in my day that helped lift me out of a low spot a few months ago. And I was, it was journaling 3 great things that happen every day before I go to bed. And the next morning, reading it again. And then being open to everything that's coming your way to look for the best part in everything that comes your way. And it might be part of my PR background. You know, my brothers have always referred to me as a spin doctor, you know, being able to just make lemonade out of anything. But I like lemonade, and it's way better than vinegar. And so I'm constantly trying to stay in that mindset and to also be an example to others around me when they get in those pits. But it's a constant reflection and just that frame of mind in the morning. And I know that sounds really simple and already says that it's super deliberate, and it's waking up. I am ready for the day. I am open to anything that's coming my way. I am going to look for the best in everybody I encounter.

I think a lot of people have embraced the spiritual realm or the spiritual arena of thinking. I'm, I'm the same. My mom, in 2010, Sorry, 2011. Was it 2010? Jesus Christ. I think it was 2011. My younger brother passed away and as a result it was just his heart stopped. He was at college. The whole family was in complete shock and as a result I ended up spiraling out of control. I was in a bunch of rehabs, went to prison for 3 years, got kicked out of the country. And after all of that happened, my mom found a spiritual, or had a spiritual awakening, and very, very heavy into mediumship, uh, spirituality, uh, sound bowl healing, all kinds of outside of this world stuff that I never would have believed in until I like actually I looked at it with Oprah, the law of attraction. I started to pay attention to it and I saw that once I just understood and believed in what was meant to be, and like everything is as it should be right now, your story's written, you make the right decisions, you create everything that's around you, I was able to kind of level myself out like big time. So if you could pick one habit that has helped you remain consistent, just one habit. So mine is execution. What's one habit that you would advise, recommend people to do every day to become a champion, to be a champion, to remain focused? What is that one habit that you always recommend other people do?

There are a few, so you're making me pick one, um, because I'm always One is what makes it hard, right? One is what makes it hard because they dovetail into each other. But I think starting the day out loud, saying your intentions for the day and having positive intentions, there's something about giving it voice. And I say it, I stretch, I stand, I do that. I mean, my mom that change that I had in '96 from the art gallery into the other, that was my spirit— spiritual reawakening. And I knew what was no longer okay by me and what needed to happen. And it's when I started the nonprofit, it was all at the same time. The nonprofit was a part of that deal. When that happened, that was part of my promise that that's what I would do. And so there's a whole different story just on that. But my mom always taught me too, when you're on the pity pot, The best thing you can do is give to somebody else to lift yourself up. So when you're sitting on the pity pot, which I was, so do something for somebody else. Get out of yourself. And so when I get up in the morning, it isn't just, this is what I'm gonna do for the day. It's, what am I gonna do for others? How am I going to improve the world and leave the world better at the end of the day than when I open my eyes? That's the one thing.

I think that's a very important one. And one of the things that people are paying attention to when they're watching this is problems in the industry today. So for me, I've encountered most of my problems are always at the top end of the sales funnel. I've seen so many companies are in such a rush to build pipeline and to close deals that they forget every single thing at the front of the relationship. So there's one guy called Bob Mesta and he has this, uh, program or this model that is Jobs to Be Done. And it just goes through the cycle of where you have Sprite right here. And Sprite, at the moment you see Sprite, you know it's a brand, you know it's a soda. And that's because you've come across the brand, the colors, you've seen it at a store, you've probably drank it in your past. So you are an ongoing user of these things, but there's 5, 6 stages of becoming aware of it, making space for the idea of it, making a decision or a choice, then using it, then ongoing use. And people are in such a rush to get there, to get in front of somebody, and they fail to realize that, okay, if you wanna get in front of that person to sell them something or to provide a solution to their problem, Number one, they got to trust you. So you just calling them and booking an appointment is not really always— that's not the way it works anymore. And where I've saw a solution to this problem is through content, because every single action in everybody's life revolves around a phone. Everything. The moment you wake up, I say it, people laugh when I say it, they even go to the toilet with their phone. The first thing is the freaking phone on everything, single thing they do. So you want to be there, right? That's, that was my, that's my solution after so much time of forcing people to take a meeting with me. Let me try to be a little bit more intelligent. Let me get in front of them so that when I do call them, that they're familiar with me, right? I become a known face. So for you, what do you think it is that is the biggest problem in sales right now?

I think you hit it. It's that rushing. It goes back to the storytelling thing we were talking about at the beginning. What you just talked about with Sprite, it isn't just building the story of the brand but it's our encounters with the brand. What is our memory of that encounter with that brand? Is it positive? Is it negative? Did I do it at Betty Jo's birthday party and I saw Sprite everywhere in this pyramid and people were throwing beanbags at it? I remember it though. I remember this tower of Sprite, and I think we are in such a rush, and it's that desperation coming through again. Take your time, because once you get them hooked, you become ingrained in their breathing, in their daily life, that it's a given. They— you're their brand. You're the one they're comfortable with. You're the one they trust. You're the one they're familiar with, even if you change what your, you know, cans look like. You still know it's Sprite. You still know what it's going to taste like.

Oh my God, never. I never forget what this tastes like. Carry on, sorry I interrupted you.

But it's those types of things. It evokes a memory, and we need to be part of people's memories. It's like a song. Songs get ingrained with us. We wake up with a song in our head. And for me, I hear songs, I hear playlists. A girlfriend of mine, she's my age, she made a playlist. And when I was in California, she said, oh, here's my playlist on Spotify. Are you kidding? She spends a lot of time on these playlists. And every song in it though, we didn't grow up together. We didn't meet until my nonprofit. So we've known each other for 27 years. But prior to that, these songs, because we're the same age, so every song evoked a memory. Every song makes me smile. Every song takes me to a place, a person, a situation, a feeling. So it's how can we get that ingrained in, you know, with people? Music is unique, as we know, but there are other things we can do to be part of their stories. And yes, bombarding with constant messages that are positive, yes, and not always asking for the sale, but something memorable, something that's a tidbit of a story, something little with a quote. When I went and spoke to those high schoolers, I told them stories I probably shouldn't have told them about my life because they asked me questions and I was honest. But a couple of them, they will never forget me.

Yeah.

And they emailed me after and they said, anytime I think of this one thing, I will always think of you. Every time I see a rabbit, I will think of you now. Because of a story I told. What a weird thing to be remembered for, but they remember me and then it takes them back to how they know me. All I want is that something to trigger that path to get back to I'm a good thing.

Uh, I, I, uh, you've hit the nail on the head. I had a conversation with somebody the other day. I worked— it was my first sales job I ever worked with them, and, um They were— they'd just become a fitness coach, and I was curious to know what their fitness program was like. I need to get back in the gym and everything. And I met up with him and he's like, I still remember you, Shane. You were always just picking up that phone. You're a very crazy man. You still like that? I said, I built a freaking company on doing that stuff. I made freaking 300,000, 400,000 calls every year with Connect. And so he goes, wow. You're just very crazy. I've had— and then again, like, I enjoy sometimes, like, when people hear about my background and my past, they're like, I never would have believed it. And some of the reactions just have been so priceless. I've said— they're like, so what are you— why are you here then? Why are you back in the UK? I did 3 years in prison. And they're like, the water, the juice comes out. Oh my God, it's so hilarious. But they'll never forget me.. And then when they see me years later, they're like, oh my God, like, this is what you're doing? This is, this is, this is what it is now? And then I go through another story. Yeah, now I'm divorced too. I've had a kid. Like, a bunch of other stuff has happened. And they're like, holy shit, it just never stops with you. So story, I think that like the main thing out of all what we've got today in terms of sales, in terms of entrepreneurship, business ownership, accountability, a lot of these things come from telling a genuine, transparent, and honest story. And I've seen it through what you do online. 4 years ago, I host— I appeared on my first episode with Chris on the Market Dominance Guys. Speaking to him 4 years after that and then seeing the post from you come out again 4 years later, I'm like, Look how much— look how much has happened in 4 years. It's unbelievable. And it brings me to the last question as we get to the top of the hour. A lot of people ask, what would you tell yourself 10 years ago, or what would you tell your 18-year-old self? And I don't believe you can get that back. You can never— you can never get—

oh yes, I can.

You could try, But in the future— but who might the— let me do this part.

In—

when you visualize yourself in the future, these things can very well become reality. So the question I ask is, at 7:14 on the 7th of March— I think I'm about 7, 8 hours ahead of you— me and you are having a conversation about telling stories. You in your position in your career, me in my position in my career, how the market is doing. What conversation would we have in 10 years from today at this exact moment? What would we be— what would we be doing? What would you be doing? What does your life look like at that moment in 10 years from today?

My life at that moment would have 3 very strong team members that would allow me to not work that much so I could put more into my nonprofit. And you flew here to join me at my national blanket-making event in some big city with some company sponsoring us, maybe Connect and Sew, but we would have everybody making blankets. All the media would be there. We would have great sponsorship and we would transform 500 people's lives that day through making blankets in one day. And 15 other chapters would be doing it across the country simultaneously. And all of us getting more sponsorships to help more kids.

I want— that's one thing I want to do is I, like I said, I went to 3 rehabs, about 3, 4 jails, 1 prison. And every person I met in all of those environments was so different from me. I was a rich kid from Frankenlakes, from Bergen County. I should never have been in those places. I was, for some very strange reason, fascinated with what a prison cell was like and that just that dark side of life and could I survive it. And I sort of manifested it into something I didn't really want, but I had to go through it anyway. It's a great life learning experience, but again, it's it's just been, um, it's just been very, very different and very, very unique in how all these stories have come together and how they've transpired. So if anybody wants to find more about your story— well, the reason I said that is because I want to help those— the people that I saw, they, they never saw anything outside of 3 meals, 3 hot meals a day. They never saw anything out outside of like creating a, a business it was oblivious to them. And if I could change those lives of those people just to give them that hope to say, look, I was in your shoes, I did, I did the freaking bid, I did the time, I know what it's like, I, I walked my way through it, but I'm now on this side of it, which is where I desire to be. And I think if more people just were aware of what is possible on the other side, that really would be a game changer for so many people. So people that do want to learn more about you, your nonprofit, what do you do within your business? Where do they, where do they usually come to find you?

Let's keep it easy to say and spell.

SusanFinch.com. Perfect.

On LinkedIn or find you on— and find me on LinkedIn, Susan M. Finch, because my friend in New York, Susan E. Finch, got the handle before I could. So she's a blonde dialect coach in New York and you're on the West Coast with red hair. I'm on the West Coast, so I get her email a lot. We've, we've been friends for over 25 years because— wow. So whenever there's a new, a new, you know, social media venue or something, we both fight to get the vanity URL first.

It's like, uh, got it.

Well, so you never know how a friendship will be struck.

Very right about that. So I'll be putting the links in the sub— in the summary below. I'll send you a copy too. And look, let's hope we don't have to wait 10 years for our next episode. Any last words before we wrap it up?

Definitely not. Take it, folks. I'm going to challenge you guys to talk to a teen. Talk to a teen who is not comfortable speaking to others. Dedicate an hour a month to spend time with that teen that you encounter to teach them how to have conversations. To get them comfortable in their own skin, to be able to talk, advocate for themselves, and learn how to listen with eye contact, with a real phone, picking it up, not avoiding conversations with people. Because those that know how to do conversations are going to be leading us, and everybody that doesn't know how to do a conversation will be left in the dust. So let's pick the people we want to be leading us in the future and teach them how to converse and listen.

I think that's a great message to wrap up the show. Until next time, guys, like, share, and subscribe this episode, and we will see you on the next show.