Rick Hanson Interview - Hardwiring Happiness

Welcome to the Better Life Better Business podcast, where we have conversations about how to live a better life and build a better business. In today's episode, we're talking about happiness. So if you'd like a little more happiness in your life, you're in the right place. I'm your host Shawn Ellis, and I am grateful to be joined by Dr. Rick Hanson. Rick is the— he's a neuropsychologist and author of 3 books, including Buddha's Brain, which I've got right here, the, the practical neuroscience of happiness, love, and wisdom. Also Just One Thing, and his brand new book Hardwiring Happiness: The New Brain Science of Contentment, Calm, and Confidence, which shows you how to tap into the hidden power of everyday experiences to change your brain And Your Life for the Better. And it's already become a New York Times bestseller in its first month of release. So Rick, congratulations on that. And by the way, Rick's publisher has generously offered to give away some free copies. So, so read below for details on how you can get one of those. But Rick, I've learned a lot from you myself. So I am grateful to be talking with you. And I think one of the reasons I've learned so much from you is because you have a gift of being able to break down some, some pretty complex stuff into a way that we can all understand. So let's talk today a little bit about how we can maybe hardwire some more happiness into our lives.

Sure. Well, thank you, Shawn. It's a pleasure to be here. And for starters, I'd really like to broaden the notion of what we mean by happiness to include really all forms of inner strengths— resilience, determination, confidence, capacity to be assertive or creative, imaginative, or to be patient, loving, altruistic, cooperative, self-compassionate. Feeling a sense of your own worth, adequacy, and so forth. All of those are the inner resources that we draw upon when life is hard. And we also draw upon them for everyday well-being and effectiveness. We draw upon them for our relationships. And also, if that's of interest to us, you know, spiritual practice or the other upper reaches of human potential. The question that's key is how to get those into your brain. That's the bottom line. That's our inner bank account. That's what we take with us wherever we go. And the problem is the brain wastes money all day long. What I mean by that is it wastes experiences all day long because it doesn't turn them into any kind of lasting structure. We're not saving them in any way. But meanwhile, because of the brain's negativity bias, it grabs hold of any kind of negative experience, any moment of irritation or worry or feeling less than other people, feeling let down by others, what have you. The brain grabs hold of that negative experience and stores it immediately. You know, it's as if it has two savings accounts, right? The negative savings account, the liabilities account, and then the assets account, you know, the positive account. And the brain is just poor at putting resources into the assets account, but boy, is it really good at building up the liabilities account.

And I love that. And you get into some of that in Buddha's Brain, and obviously in your new book too. Can you tell us a little bit more about kind of how the brain has, has developed and— and maybe why that is, why we have that negativity bias there. Yeah.

So the brain is part of the nervous system. The nervous system has evolved for about 600 million years. That's a long time. And the results are woven into our own head today. In other words, we draw upon structures and processes inside our own brain that are exactly the same as those used by, you know, mosquitoes or crabs or little mice in the field. Obviously, the human brain is vastly more complex. Complicated and sophisticated, but it's important to appreciate that there's a kind of intimacy with the legacy of evolution right between our ears as we go throughout our day. So in that context then, the brain had to evolve for survival purposes, passing on genes in very, very harsh conditions. And in those conditions, it was critically important to learn intensely well from any kind of negative experience if you survived it, because you would probably not get a second chance. To survive that kind of, you know, attack from a lion or some kind of lethal aggression inside your primate band or between early human bands, let's say. But meanwhile, positive experiences, even though they are the primary source of the inner strengths we all want to have, they're just kind of like plain vanilla, right? The brain just uses its standard memory systems, its standard learning functionalities for them. And that's involves a two-stage process in which we first activate some kind of useful mental state, and then we have to install it in the brain. Well, we're pretty good usually at having a positive experience of some kind in the first place, either just because we notice one we're already having, or we even do something to create it perhaps. But we tend to be poor, uh, myself historically included, at installing that activated mental state into some kind of lasting positive neural trait. Whether you're a therapist or a human resources trainer, a motivational speaker, a mindfulness teacher, educator, parent, coach, executive coach, whatever, the dirty little secret in our profession— and I'm part of this profession— is that we've historically been really bad at the installation phase of learning. We've just assumed that if we're helping people have these positive experiences, some kind of result will occur. But the result is a fairly shallow learning curve. What my book's about and my work's really about is using the opportunity that's available to us, 10 or 30 seconds at a time, a handful of times each day, but at these critical opportunities each day, to, uh, retain, to save rather than waste that positive experience, and then increment by increment, bit by bit, really steepen our learning curve or steepen the learning curve, the development curve, the improvement curve, uh, in terms of broad characteristics of emotional intelligence, uh, the learning curve of ourselves and other people. To me, that's the real opportunity. And as they say in Tibet, if you take care of the minutes, the years will take care of themselves. And I think that's our chance to take care of the next minute and not waste the value in it.

Yeah, I love that. And I'm glad you mentioned that because it's obviously— we're talking a lot here about how, how this applies to us, how I can can use this, but at the Speakers Group I work with a lot of people who either plan meetings and training education events in the business world primarily, or speakers and trainers. So understanding this a little bit more, obviously it can help us with our audience as well to make more valuable experiences for them.

Yeah, I had a kind of epiphany once, also related to the book. I was in a major conference of lots of teachers and there were publishers there, including publishers of motivational books or self-help books. And I asked what to me was a naive question, but actually a really important question: why do people keep buying more books? In other words, why doesn't one book do the job? Why do people keep going to conferences? Why do people need to keep going through trainings? Well, it's because the learning doesn't stick that well, you know. And I'm talking about myself. I've been a therapist a long time and a teacher a long time, and I'm full of chagrin, you know. It's very humbling to appreciate How many useful experiences were activated, you know, in the minds of various clients or students or people in courses I've taught and so forth? But it didn't change anything, you know, it, it didn't have any lasting value. That's the real question. How do we help the brain actually learn? So the— this is the how of personal growth broadly defined. How do we actually do it 10 or 20, 30 seconds at a time? And the how of that is exactly what I've been looking into. And that's what my book's about. That's what this recent study is about that we did with UC Berkeley on, um, people who take in the good, showing that, you know, it leads to many positive results. Uh, that's to me also, besides being what's really relevant for learning, that's what's within our power. You know, the most important minute of your life is the next one, minute after minute after minute. And we have the opportunity to harvest to save, to invest the goodness available to us in the next minute of our life, or we can waste it.

Right. And I think it's encouraging to know that, you know, our thoughts, feelings, they can run away with us if, you know, if we're not intentional. But I'm thankful that in your book, obviously, you've got some very practical steps and tips on that. Maybe we can go into some of that now. You've got your 4-step process. I don't know if we want to start with that, if we want to back up and talk about the let be, let go, let in, but I'll let you take it from there. But maybe give us some of those practical practical ideas about how we can do that.

Okay, I'll do it in two parts, Shawn Ellis. So with regard to let be, let go, let in, you're quickly summarizing because, you know, you actually read in my book, which is great, with an interviewer. And there are three ways to engage the mind. There are basically three ways to do any kind of practice. First way is you just be with what's there. You feel the feelings, you try to step back from them and observe them so you're not swept away by them. Maybe you sense down to what's more central for you, or perhaps more vulnerable or more important, or even younger, but you're not trying to change anything. The second way to engage the mind is to reduce the negative. You're letting go of painful feelings, tension in the body, uh, maybe you're letting go of unwholesome desires, you know, to like eat, drink too much, eat too much, what have you. Um, you're letting it go. And then in the third way to engage the mind, you're growing positive qualities. You're trying to develop good things inside yourself. If we use the metaphor of a garden, you can witness the garden you can pull weeds, and you can plant flowers. All three are important. My focus is very much about planting flowers because that's the most enjoyable part of the practice, and therefore it's the one that people are going to be most motivated, you know, to do. Second, uh, the flowers are what we all want to develop. Those are the inner strengths, including positive mood, confidence, resilience, motivation of various kinds, commitment to your sobriety, what have you. Those are the things we want to grow inside ourselves. And, uh, it's also the case that to be able to be with the mind the first way, we need to resource ourselves so that we actually can observe it without getting swept away by it. And also, as any gardener knows, if you don't replace the weeds with flowers, the weeds grow back, right? Flowers crowd out weeds. So for all those reasons, I'm zeroed in on how do we actually cultivate, how do we actually develop the good things inside ourselves or in our students, our employees, what have you, that we want to grow inside them. So that's part one. Uh, in that context then, how do you grow flowers? Using the metaphor, how do you help yourself feel more accomplished or more prepared to speak from the heart, or more able to interact with people from different cultures or genders or ages? How do you help grow those things inside yourself? How do you help yourself be more mindful? How do you actually do it? Well, the how of that, drawing on hundreds of studies on the neuropsychology of emotional learning, the how of that is a two-stage process that moves from activation to installation. We first must have some kind of conscious experience. We need to be aware of information, or in my own particular focus, we need to be having an experience of some kind, you know, not just an idea usually, but something that's actually more felt emotionally or in the body where we're actually there with the thing. So we have to activate that mental state and then install it as a lasting neural trait. States are passing, traits are enduring. Traits come from states. All right, it's a very simple idea, but it has profound implications because if we don't do the installation phase, if we don't convert that momentary mental state to some kind of lasting structure, it's wasted on the brain. It has no enduring value. There's no learning, right? The learning curve is flat. There's no delta, there's no increase. Okay, so how do you do the installation phase? That's where the acronym that you mentioned, this 4-step process, comes in. That really just summarizes the neuropsychology of learning in a very easy way to remember. Um, the acronym I use is HEAL, H-E-A-L. Uh, the first letter H means have a positive experience, either because you notice you're already having one— that's probably the main way to do it— and as appropriate, create it. For example, call up a sense of something you're grateful for, or call up a sense of determination inside yourself, or inner strength if you're challenged in some kind of situation. And then after you've activated that positive experience in the first step, you need to install it with the remaining, uh, two steps, two and three, and then the optional step four. So step two is E for enrich. Stay with the experience, help it grow. Let yourself have it for a dozen or two dozen seconds straight. There's a famous saying in neuroscience: neurons that fire together wire together. It's kind of mechanical, mo' better. In other words, the more neurons you get firing, the longer they're firing, the more they involve your whole body, the more you, uh, really let the whole experience be intense, the more neural structure you're going to be building. That's E for enrich. And then A for absorb. You can sensitize or prime your structure-building systems, your memory machines inside you, by intending and even sensing that the experience is really going into you. It's actually weaving its way into you, so it becomes increasingly, uh, with you wherever you go. That's A for Absorb. And then in the acronym HEAL, the optional step is a very powerful one— L for Link. In other words, if you want You can be aware of both your positive experience, such as a moment of feeling like you accomplished something, or maybe people praised you at work, let's say, for doing something right, you know. You can stay with that experience that's positive while also being aware off to the side of the mind, you know, if the mind is like a stage, off to the wings, aware of something that's negative that this positive experience is the natural antidote for. In other words, if the positive experience is one of accomplishment, there might be a sense in the background of old failures or feelings of inadequacy. Or if the positive experience is a sense of relaxing, just, ah, yeah, you know, the negative material could be some sense of anxiety or worry. Or maybe if your positive experience is a sense of being, you know, a friend or cared about by other people, they like you, they want you to come along. Right, right. Uh, let's go have lunch together. Uh, you can be aware of that positive experience alongside negative material, for example, of feeling excluded or left out or unwanted. That's the link process. And since neurons that fire together wire together, for 10 or 20 or 30 seconds straight, if you're aware of both of those at once, keeping the positive more prominent so it goes into the negative rather than the negative contaminating the positive— if you do that, gradually the positive material will associate with the negative soothe it, ease it, reduce it, and even potentially ultimately replacing it in the sense of flowers actually pulling weeds. So that's the process. It sounds a little complex because when you're learning anything, and the book goes into lots of detail, um, and applications and stuff like that, but it really boils down to 4 words: have it, enjoy it, and especially enjoy it. That's the installation phase, the critical step that we tend to overlook.

Yeah, and you know, I had a chance to actually practice this this morning. I just kind of— a moment caught me by surprise. I was, I was with our son this morning, and he accidentally knocked his bowl of cereal off the table. So cereal goes everywhere. And, and I can't say I always handled this as well as I did today, but I actually stayed calm, you know, got down on the floor to pick it up, continued talking with him. And so kind of went through the process that way, as opposed to just blowing up because, you know, that wasn't in the plans to have to stop and clean up cereal. But then afterward, I actually realized, uh, I realized what was, what was going on there and tried to apply your, um, the, the HEAL process and take in the calm feeling and the, the peaceful feeling and how much better experience that was. Um, knowing also I can— I've had plenty of times where I didn't respond that well and was stressed, so I could feel the negative of what, you know, what that sometimes feels like. So just to say, I was trying to, uh, to apply that firsthand this morning.

Yeah, just to build on that, Shawn, as an example, um, so two key points there. First, in that episode, you didn't merely have a positive experience in the sense of staying calm, remaining loving, being, you know— also, let's remember that experiences include behaviors. So you were behaving skillfully with your son. Now, that's really good. That's really, really good. It's a lot better than— I'm a parent myself, and I've seen the oatmeal fly, and I've felt the temper rise and all the rest of that. And so being, you know, acting the way you did was great. Okay, but key point: you retained the value from it. You let it sink in. What does it actually feel like to be calm? What kind of thoughts or perspectives are present in my mind in the way I'm looking at this situation? How can I help those sink in? What does it feel like in my body when I'm staying centered, you know, with my child, let's say? And, and how can I let that sink in? And also, how can I let the sense of reward from this experience— like, hey, good on me, you know, I was— I don't mean like a million-dollar moment, but I wasn't a schmo, I didn't lose it, I didn't have one of those, you know, scary dad moments, and I didn't get embarrassed in front of my partner, and I'm not feeling guilty afterward. It's rewarding. And so I can actually let in healthy, appropriate, authentic rewards from this experience. So I'm going to be even more motivated in the future to incline my mind in this direction because my brain will now start really pursuing the rewards that are associated with the particular action or attitude or approach that I really want to encourage in myself, which is, by the way, a super powerful application of the Taking in the Good process, you know, that I write about because it helps motivate people to really internalize a felt sense of reward, it helps motivate them to take the high road rather than the low road the next time, or to act in more of a peak performance kind of way. And the second point is that as you internalize, you know, half a minute, right, a minute maybe, really let it sink in, as it were, what this experience was like for you to stay centered and calm when you were dealing with a challenging moment. As you internalize that, as you install it, it will be easier to draw upon it down the road. You'll be able to reactivate that installed positive neural trait. And once it's reactivated, that's another opportunity to internalize yet again this attitude or stance or feeling in the body that you really want to encourage in yourself. And then in a positive cycle, it becomes ever easier to draw upon, uh, down the road, uh, and increasingly automatic. That's how we just kind of activate or surface natural resources for us. Uh, I love that process, and it's the essence of emotional learning.

Yeah, and it's great—

activation, installation, reactivation, reinstallation, reactivation.

Yeah, and I hadn't— the taking in the good component of that, that's something that I probably would have missed, you know, before reading and learning from you, because it's easy to pass right over that, to, you know, stay calm. That's, you know, that's a good thing. And then, but then just, you know, rush right on through it. But to actually pause on that, that was, that's, um, that's thanks to you. And as you said, obviously, that's the, that's the part of trying to make that state into a, to a neural trait. Exactly.

And that's the moment, isn't it? That's where the rubber meets the road, that little moment, that 10, 20, 30-second moment there. Do we use it Or do we waste it? Yeah, but if we use it, and it's usually enjoyable because it's— we're just marinating in a good state of mind for half a minute straight, you know. If we use it, then we become much happier in general and also much more able to deal with the tough things in life.

Yeah, yeah, great. Well, thanks for that. I'd like to talk before we go just maybe a little bit going back to the, the workplace. Obviously this, you know, what we were just talking about. If you're a leader, you can certainly use that with employees. But you mentioned, and you mentioned this in your book as well, trying to get ourselves to do things that are good, that maybe they don't feel good to us. Use the example of exercise, getting on the treadmill in your book, but it could be at work doing something that you know will advance you at work or help you perform at a higher level. But we just, we don't want to do those things. Right now, it'd be easier to just, you know, plop down on the couch instead of exercising. Could you share some of your advice on how we can get ourselves to do some of the things that are good for us that maybe don't necessarily feel good in the moment?

Definitely. And that goes to what I was saying there a moment ago about motivation and internalizing a felt sense of reward. If you want to motivate yourself, or let's say in a workplace environment as a leader, to— help those who work with you or work under you, what have you, to help them be more motivated to do what's good, right? To be more skillful in their dealings with each other, to be more willing to speak up, to speak out, more willing to take care of the details, you know, to be conscientious about the little things that are critically important. Whatever it is that we want to encourage in people, by linking or associating a sense of the reward of the higher road to the behavior that we want to encourage, then the brain will be naturally trained increasingly to go in that direction. It's good old behaviorism, but on, you know, turbocharged, in effect. So in a practical sense, for example, um, if, uh, any employee is doing something that, that's skillful and works well, really encourage the employee to register the positive experience. That is an appropriate legitimate reward from that activity that they did. In any moment, these are, these are usually not super intense experiences on the 0 to 10 intensity scale. These are the 1s and 2s of everyday life, you know, a sense of, okay, I finished this project and I got it done on time. So to sum up in 2 points, the first point is to really look for opportunities and help others to look for opportunities to have some sense of reward linked to in your own mind. In other words, be aware of both at the same time, whatever it is that you want to encourage. Second, more broadly, ask yourself, for yourself or for other people, what if it were more present inside the mind of this person— myself, my employees, my students, my clients, what have you— what if it were more present inside the mind would be really, really useful? And then look for opportunities to have experiences of that inner strength and then install them in your brain. In other words, traits come from states. We have to get the state going and then don't waste the state, but use various methods that are explored very practically in my book. Use, um, you know, various ways inside yourself to turn that state into some kind of lasting trait. And that's the path of personal growth. And if we do it bit by bit by bit, you know, minute by minute by minute, it creates a learning curve that's really steep as we go through life.

Very good. Great advice, Rick. And thank you again for this time and for your book. I highly recommend those of you who are listening or watching pick up a copy of Rick's book. It's awesome, great material inside. And Rick, for those who do want to go deeper, obviously your book is a resource, But what are some of the other ways? You've got your newsletter. How can people connect with you and learn more from you?

Thank you. I have a website, Rick Hanson, S-O-N, dot net, that is chock-full of freely offered resources. Almost everything I do is freely offered. So I have slide sets from workshops I've taught, you know, videos, articles I've written, links to scientific resources and other kinds of resources, etc. I also, as you mentioned, do have a freely offered weekly newsletter called Just One Thing. About 100,000 people currently subscribe to it. I'll never share your email address with anybody. You can unsubscribe at any time. And each week you get a little practice, short and sweet, just one thing, uh, in your inbox that you can focus on for that week. A recent one I did was on accept them as they are. Another different kinds that I've done are things like get on your own side or have self-compassion or take in the good. Or relax or smile or enjoy your hands. Just little things. But if you focus on it, you can really change your brain for the better. So thanks for asking me that question there, Shawn, and I appreciate being on this interview and I wish everybody the best who's watching it.

Thank you, Rick. Talk to you again later.

Great. Thank you, Shawn. Take care.