Cracking College Admissions: Learning Styles, Mindset & Test Prep Strategies for Success

Hello parents, is your teen college ready? Today I have an extra special guest, Nora Legrand. Welcome to our show.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Outstanding. Well, without me reading a bio, I would love for you to share how amazing you are and what you're up to.

Thank you. So you know what? My students call me the SAT whisperer. I actually— like, my claim to fame, I have a perfect SAT score, and I have gotten that score twice now officially with College Board. And yes, as far as my history, so, you know, when I talk to my students, I kind of tell them, like, I date myself a little bit and I go, I was where you guys were 20 years ago. So I graduated from high school in 2004. I'm from New York. And so I took the SATs in 2003. And let me tell you, well, first of all, my PSATs were abysmal, OK? Abysmal. Of course, I will say that that is relative to everyone. But, you know, when my parents saw that, they were like, oh, absolutely not. You gotta, you have to take a test prep course. And so I went ahead and did that. I took a Kaplan course because back in the day you always heard Kaplan or Princeton Review. Those were the two. And so I took a Kaplan course. It did help. It helped. And I went up significantly. But when I took the SAT the first time, so spring of my junior year, I got a, like, a 1240. And so, okay, but, you know, I just knew that I could do better, but I realized that what was missing was that, you know, the course that I took was very strategy heavy, which is important, right? Like, you need strategy for the SATs. However, you know, if you don't have the content down, like, if there's certain things that you just didn't learn in school and there are things that are missing, all the strategy in the world isn't gonna help you out. So I pretty much like leading into my senior year that summer, I was a dancer, so I would dance, come home, SAT, dance, come home, SAT. And so I taught myself a lot of what I had never seen. Like I was like literally living in textbooks. And so you know what, it helped because October my senior year, I got that perfect score. I went to Columbia University in New York City for my undergrad where I majored in the International Relations track of political science, and I was pre-med. So I went through all 4 years of doing that, took a gap year where I started tutoring, and honestly, I fell in love and never looked back. So I have been in elementary schools. I've tutored and partnered with high schools. I've even taught at 2 community colleges in New York City. And I have a workshop entitled How to Raise Brilliant Children that was rated the highest-rated workshop at the United Federation of Teachers Manhattan Borough Conference in 2019 and 2021. So, you know, then eventually I went off on my own, you know, establishing Le Grand Prep, and now we're here.

Oh my goodness, I love it. So I have so many questions to ask you. This is going to be fantastic. So because I have 4 kids of my own, and they are all very unique. I'm thinking, how would I ask a question from each of them? So my first, who went to Harvard, like you, was a gifted test taker. Just some kids, I think, are a little— they just— there's a little something to it. And I used to ask him, why aren't you studying like all the other kids? He's like, Mom, I've got all A's. And that used to make me crazy because I wasn't like that. So I didn't understand his kind of brain. So I guess my first question is, can you help students who have the photographic memory? The— how do I say my second child— lots of desire but has to work really, really hard kind of memory. And then the ones who are just kind of like, why do I even have to do this? So maybe you can talk, you know, I'm sure parents are listening with some similar students, and maybe talk to the different ways you can go about helping each of those kind of students or any others.

Yes, absolutely. So, you know, one thing that I've learned, you know, in the last 15 years is that everyone learns differently. And even though that's not super revolutionary, like, we know everyone learns differently, that's not something that's truly reinforced in school, right? Like, you go to school, you sit down for class, the teacher kind of, you know, teaches exactly exactly how he or she would like to teach, and then you're responsible for getting the information, and that's pretty much it. But the way that, you know, I approach test prep is very much in a holistic way. So I work with who each student is as an individual. And so one of the first things that I do is give them an assessment that is going to determine for me what kind of learner they are, because based on what kind of learner they are That's how we're going to tailor our lesson plans, the activities that we do. So that's easy to do in one-on-one, but I also make sure to apply it in my groups. Like, I do small groups so that I can keep track of everyone. I don't want anybody getting lost or left behind. And based on who is in my group and the kind of learners I have in my group, I have a mix of activities so that, you know, as students are learning— one, I mean, it's SATs, right? But we want to make it as juicy as possible, not so boring. But aside from that too, in a way that they can really retain the information, because one of the biggest issues that I've seen with students is content retention. They're having a hard time remembering the information long term, which really makes sense when you think about it, because, you know, if you have a student who, you know, like your son, he's like, listen, I have all A's, I'm fine. So I don't know what course load he took, but I'm gonna assume that You know, there's a possibility that maybe he was a little bit advanced. Did he take Algebra 1 by chance in 9th grade, or did he take it earlier?

He took Algebra 2 in 9th grade.

There we go. I felt it. So pretty much when that happens, you know, I tell families, and they're usually shocked, you know, you want to start that test prep as soon as they're done with that. Right? Like, you don't want to wait because I have so many students that come to me and they're like, wait, but I'm in calculus, or I'm in Calculus 2. I'm taking college courses in high school, and why is my SAT score not reflective of this? Because you took Algebra 1 ages ago. You took geometry ages ago. You were supposed to start prepping for the SATs maybe even while taking Algebra 2 so that you can brush up on your Algebra 1 and geometry. And then when Algebra 2 is done, tighten that up. Wrap it up with a little bow and you're good to go. But I think we're so stuck on a schedule and, oh, junior year is when we start talking about college prep. And that's not necessarily how it's going to go based on your child and where they are.

That was a perfect answer. I love that. People think that I'm a little, um, unique when I say it really depends on the student. I had a freshman last year take the ACT in her fall of her freshman year and got a perfect 36. First test as a freshman. And her parents kept telling me, why? Why so soon? Why so soon? And I'm like, because she just got an A. Like, let's do it when we're like proving that we know it. And so I think that's perfect. That's exactly how I approach it. Now here's the flip side. I have a student with a super high GPA and their test scores are just not representing. How do you help that student?

So typically what I find with students like this is that it could be a mixture of reasons why, you know, the test score isn't reflective of their grades. If I had to choose, you know, the most common one, it would be that schools teach different things, teachers teach different things. Even though we all have taken Algebra 1, we don't necessarily all have the same curriculum, and we don't all go to schools with the same level of rigor. So an A tells you that you have done everything that your teacher required of you to do. You submitted your assignments on time, things like that. However, on a standardized test like the SAT, that does not necessarily mean that you've seen everything you needed to see in that particular, you know, course, right? And so usually what we do is we're gonna work on really the content, and I'm going to first test for, okay, what do you know and what's missing? What gaps are here so that we can go ahead and plug those in? So that's what I would say is the most common factor. Of course there is, you know, the test anxiety that is, you know, something that we wanna factor in as well. But I would say before even, you know, really dealing with the test anxiety, one of the biggest things is making sure, do you know the content? So what I like to do sometimes is I'll have students, you have to take a diagnostic test. Now, of course, I think every company makes you do that, right? Because they want to use it as a benchmark for progress as you go. But what I do is really do a deep dive into that diagnostic so that I can see what commonalities, what patterns, if any. Are you really strong at the beginning of a section, but then towards the middle and the end you're leveling off? Is that an issue of focus? Is that an issue of, no, I actually just didn't know this content? Things like this, right? So I do a really deep dive into that. But then I also like to have students take another test as well, untimed, because I want to see without the timing pressure, without, you know, any of that, can you just get to the right answer? Do you actually know the material? Is it something external that is the reason that you got it wrong, or is it that you actually really don't know it? So I like to give them both and then compare the results that way, and that gives me a little bit more data on how to approach our sessions.

Fantastic. We do the same recommendation. Now, we're not a test prep company, and that's why I'm bringing you into our client's world, is we consult on a strategy that's right for that student. So we do exactly that step by step, because what we're finding is for that particular student, sometimes it's a timing issue because their teacher taught them take your time, do it right, get the A. And now all of a sudden we're saying you have limited time and we gotta get right through this. And all of a sudden they go through this and it may lead to that anxiety that they wouldn't have had if they had the time. So I love this. This is so brilliant. Now let's talk about— back up a little bit. What about when Should a student start prepping? So in other words, maybe not, you know, hardcore rigor, da da da da da, but is there an app they should start with in kindergarten? You know what I'm talking about? Because I have families that are like, I'm ready to start, and I'm like, well, they're only 2. So, um, but in, you know, to be honest, that Every child does it at a different pace. So what would be some recommendations, maybe elementary, middle school, high school? I know, you know, it's every child's different, but are there some things that a parent might see or hear that they are like, okay, they're ready?

Yes, absolutely. Um, so first, I love that you asked this question because this is something that I'm really raising with a lot of parents that I'm speaking to. Um, you know, lately, the norm is that everyone just waits for junior year. And that is like a fatal error because honestly, it really depends on the student. And I know that is kind of vague, so I'm going to go into exactly what I mean. But there really isn't just one particular time like, okay, great, this is when you start, right? Because again, every student is at a different place in their academic journey. Now I will say, if your child is taking Algebra 2, that is the time to start. That is my recommended start time, or what I should say, the latest you should start. So let me actually amend that— the latest you should start. Um, so the reason being, you know, I have students who, you know, they are wondering why they're in such advanced classes and why is their score not matching up? Well, if you've taken these courses so long ago, of course, right? Like, that would be the reason. You don't remember. And how could we expect you to remember something that you're not consistently reviewing? So, you know, while a student is taking Algebra 2, if they kind of take that time to slowly go back and really strengthen their Algebra 1 again and their geometry and their verbal skills, a lot of students don't realize The verbal, you honestly can start at any time. You can really start because that is more of a slow burn, I think. You know, there are certain rules for math that you need to know and formulas, and if you understand the concepts, you can get to the questions. For verbal, a lot of it is gonna be certain skills that take time to develop, like context clues, you know, having a strong vocabulary, things like that. You know, that you can't really do in a couple of weeks the way that maybe you can strengthen a certain math skill in a couple of weeks. So verbal can start pretty early. Now, I actually, uh, in the last few months have had a lot of families come to me, um, and I go, okay, great, what grade is your child in? And they're like, 7th. And I'm like, oh. So, you know, once I started realizing that, that, you know, there are so many people who really are looking to start their children early, and I do think that that is gonna be beneficial. So I thought, you know what, let me see how I can kind of help that movement. So I'm actually releasing, um, a program in the spring, spring 2025. It's called Brilliant Beginnings, and it is going to be— as long as the student has taken pre-algebra, they can go ahead and take this course. It is a hybrid course. So when I say hybrid, partially self-paced, but I also don't believe in really leaving children to like just their own devices. So there are some human touchpoints there, but essentially it really is built for mastery, because how the program is gonna work, it's gonna be in video format, right? And I am, again, once a student has taken pre-algebra, they can take this. Then that means I'm being very granular with all of the information. I mean, we're literally starting with like, why do we use letters in algebra? Like, we're really starting from the beginning. And as you go through, they're gonna be strategically placed quizzes and exams. But unlike school where, you know, if you get a 70, you can move on, there's gonna be a requisite score that you need to pass. If you do not pass that quiz or that chapter exam, you have to go back and do it again and then take another quiz till you get there. And that's going to ensure by the time students get to the end, they've done all the verbal, they've done the Algebra 1, the Geometry, the Algebra 2, that they are scoring in the top 10%, which is anywhere from about a 1380 to a 1600. And that's what I specialize in. I really, you know, focus on helping students get to that top 10% score.

I love that. So the question has to be asked, the test optional, is it really optional?

Yes, that is the question, isn't it? Um, Okay, so again, it depends. It depends where you're applying. It depends what your package looks like in general. You know, the SAT can be a great booster and a great help if you kind of need that extra thing where you're like, oh, okay, I'm pretty good, but if I have a high SAT score, that's really going to push me over the edge. But to be honest with you, other than the fact that, yes, I teach this, but I teach a host of other things as well. You know, I, if I recommend the SAT for someone, it is not necessarily to get into college, it's for the money, okay? Because again, even though so many schools are test optional, a majority of them require the SAT or the ACT in order to even think about giving you any merit money. And then there's so many scholarships out there that the higher you score in the SAT, that bolsters that scholarship application. So for me, I think that is the importance of the SAT, is really taking it to offset the rising costs of, you know, attending college.

Wow, we are so aligned. You know, over the last year, our students received $9.2 million in scholarships, and every one of them took the test. It didn't matter if it was SAT or ACT. We, we We can get money from both. But what I will tell you is a strong test score equals dollar signs. So parents, if you're thinking of investing, and I seriously call it an investment in Test Strategy, it is to get your money back in merit scholarships. And if they want to go on to pursue the MCAT or LSAT or some other standardized testing, they now have a foundation of how to beat the test. Do you agree?

Absolutely. I'm actually working with a student right now on the GRE, and if I could show students how similar the SAT or ACT is to this test— like, some of the questions I look at and I'm like, that's an ACT question, you know, or that's a verbal question that I would see on the SATs. So it really is not far-fetched at all. And so really getting in the mindset of understanding that you can beat this test, there's that trepidation that students aren't feeling when they are now, you know, reaching for graduate school where you do have to take, you know, these graduate-level exams. So I absolutely agree.

Yeah, the important thing to realize is it could just help you in, in help you not only get accepted. Well, as we know, a school today that's test optional could be test required tomorrow. So in all reality, unless you know exactly where you want to apply and know that they are not going to change 100% from test optional, you better be taking that test. And that's why I wanted you on our show. And I'm so excited to have you. One more question, because I just have to know the answer to this. Um, when a student is so close, and I'm talking maybe, I don't know, they're just points away, and all of a sudden they start to go backwards, what in the world happens?

I've seen it.

It makes me so sad, and I don't have a clue why that happens.

Yes, honestly, um, that really comes down to the mind. And I will tell you that the brain is such a powerful thing, and if we really understood what our brains do, I mean, it is— it's, uh, something really special. And so You know, that's why, you know, I mentioned earlier that the way that I approach test prep is very holistic. We also work on mindset for that particular reason. So it is not just, oh, let's talk about strategies. We're going to do strategies, we're going to do content to make sure you're solid with the information, we're going to do executive functioning, and we're going to do mindset. And we're even going to do— I mean, I do breathing exercises with my students. Listen, because when you feel that in the— and you feel it like it is literally a physical, like you can almost like feel like the warmth wash over you when you realize, oh my gosh, I'm freaking out and I'm taking the test. And what are the strategies that you can physically do to mitigate that and then refocus so that you can keep on going for the test, whether it's in the moment or whether it's, uh, oh my gosh, the test is in 2 weeks and why now am I backsliding? Because that happens as well, right? Like both scenarios. And you're just kind of wondering what's happening, and that literally is mental, right? So we work on the mental control that you need as well to work through the test and to really just keep composure.

Wow, that's fantastic. I have not heard another test strategist tell me that. That is so key. Well done. So if there was one last thing that you would share with parents who are listening, any words of advice that you would give?

Do not limit yourself, or don't limit your child. And what I mean by that is, of course, we don't set out to limit our kids, right? Like, we always tell kids, you can do anything you want. But really believing in that, as long as hard work is put in, that students can do what they want. I mean, there's no way looking at my PSAT score, which I don't know, maybe if I was lucky, I hit 1,000, maybe 1,050, that anybody could believe that I would have been able to get to a 1,600 and that I would have gone to Columbia University. When I tell you that it is beyond possible, but you need to give your children time and the runway to do it. Hence why start prep whenever you think you should start prep, just start earlier. Because if you give them that time, and the runway to be able to learn without the overwhelm, you would be really pleasantly surprised to see what can come from your child. So that would be the advice I'd give. Outstanding.

So if somebody was interested in learning more about your services, what would be the best way for them to reach you?

Yes. So my website is LegrandPrep.com. You can also find me on social media on Instagram. I'm @nailingnumbersnara. And yeah, those would be the two places that you could reach me pretty quickly. I love it.

Well, thank you so much for being on our show, and we wish you all the best.

Thank you so much for having me. I enjoyed myself.