Jeff Nelligan- How You Can Raise Resilient Kids

Hello, this is Shellee Howard with College Ready and Parents. Is your teen college ready? Today on our podcast, I have a special guest, Jeff Nelligan. Welcome to the show.

Hey, Shellee, thanks for having me. Appreciate it.

You got it. So, Jeff, can you please share with our listeners a little bit about your background and maybe why they might want to listen in?

Certainly, I'll go right back to where— right where you're near. I was born in Santa Monica at St. John's Hospital, and I've worked in politics for many, many years, both on Capitol Hill as a presidential appointee for two presidents and also as a campaign advance man in national campaigns all over the country. The biggest part is I've had the privilege, and I mean that, to raise 3 sons. And that's far and away the most important thing to me. Love it. I'm also— I should also add, I'm the author of several books. One is called 4 Lessons from My 3 Sons: How You Can Raise Resilient Kids. The second one may be of interest to parents is called Your Kids Rebound from Pandemic Lockdowns: A Parent Guide to Restoring Their Family, which goes into the damages of school closures and isolations and ways in which that, that damage can be rectified.

Both of them sound so fun. Okay, so we're going to start with probably my favorite question, and that is When you were in high school, did you know that you would be an author and work in politics?

Wow. No, I didn't. I actually went to high school in Woodland Hills, California, north of where you are now, El Camino Real High. And I thought I would be in politics. I never thought I'd be an author. Politics was always something that I wanted to be involved in. And it's a, it's a rugged game. I mean, you win and you lose, and when you lose, you lose your job. And that's happened a few times.

Oh, that's a big wow. Okay. So talk about pick yourself back up and dust yourself off, right? You've had to do that. And I think that's a great place to start. This generation does not like to fail. They are ones that, you know, they want to be perfect because that's what it looks like on social media. So What's up with raising 3 young boys? What are their ages now?

Uh, ages are 28, 26, and 24.

Okay, so you've made it. I, I say after 21, like, you've made it. And with that, were they all the same or were they each individual?

I bet every parent would agree with me to say each one is different. They followed similar paths, but every kid is different because they're reacting to the kid before them or the kid after them, particularly in multiples. And so each kid, while they, they do have a path forward that you hope is of productivity and success and joy, satisfaction, each kid goes down that path just in a different speed, in a different way.

For sure. So your book, Resilience— I love that word. That's like one of my favorite things to talk to teenagers about. Where did you come up with that idea to write a book? I believe, Four Lessons from My Three Sons.

Uh, after the last kid left for college, I thought, you know, these guys have had a pretty good run. And some parents would ask me, and then colleagues at work, you know, well, you know, these kids seem like they're, um, pretty straight ahead, pretty alert and sharp and rugged. And I said, yeah, you know, they are. And, uh, but they're like any other kid. They're like any other adult. And Shellee Howard, I think you probably maybe see this in your practice. Everyone hits an obstacle. Everyone hits a setback. No one ever in the history of the planet has ever got a free ride. And sometimes these can be minor obstacles, sometimes they can be enormous, life-changing. And I knew that even before I got into politics, that's the way it is. And so from earliest on, I wanted to ensure that when they hit those obstacles, that they could either get around them or get over them, somehow ameliorate the damage and move forward. And that's what I had to do a lot in politics. I saw my parents do it. I saw my colleagues do it. Again, politics is a rough business. You're winning, you're losing, there's no in-between. And so I wanted to have that resilience, that ability to get up just ingrained in them. And that's how the whole— that's how it started, how I wrote the book and why I wrote the book and why I entitled it that.

I think that's such a great story. People often ask me— I wrote a bestselling book as well, How to Send Your Student to College Without Losing Your Mind or Your Money. And I wrote it because I lost a bet. So mine's a little different story, but I think still fun to share. My son, I bet him that if he got into a top-tier school and graduated without debt, that I would write a book. Him knowing how much I despise writing was like, yeah, that's a great bet. I love it, Mom. And so he ended up getting into 7 top-tier schools, went to Harvard, graduated. When he crossed the stage, he handed me his diploma and he says, Mom, where's the book? Oh my gosh, I was like, dang, he remembered.

Where is it? Oh, beautiful.

So I, uh, did a lockdown for 3 months. I stopped my life and I wrote the book, and it was a big challenge. How did you decide that you were actually going to take— you know, a lot of people ask parents, how did you do it? You know, are you just lucky to like me, I lost a bet. What was your reason why you wrote the book?

I wanted to give— I mean, obviously the kid was gone, the last kid was gone, the other two were on their way. But it was also to— I wanted to help parents who seem to be, to me, in this age, uh, flailing a little bit and maybe a lot for various reasons. The saturation of electronics, the culture of, you know, grievance and victimhood, and just the overall speed of the times. And I wanted to give parents kind of— here's some lessons that you may find of use because I used them, and most of the time they worked. That's why.

Can you maybe share one of those lessons so people can get just a little bit of flavor of what would be in the book?

Sure. You know, the The building of resilience in kids, I found the best way to do that was in two simple fashions. Number one, you get kids out in the real world. First, you pry the screen out of their hands and you never give it back because my kids had little electronics, very little. But when I say the real world, I meant everything that's outside the front door, the hardware store, the grocery store, church, volunteer opportunities, athletic leagues, big events, neighborhood, community, anything to put them around a bunch of strangers or people that they knew, acquaintances or friends, but in the real world where they could just see the panorama of how people operate. When I was out there in the real world with them, what I would do is I would point out examples of good behavior, bad behavior, and inspirational behavior and say, this is what you should do, and this is probably— this is not what you should do. And it ran the gamut. If you saw an adult holding up a door, holding open a door for a senior, that's good behavior, guys. You need to— and it's more than just holding open the door. It's just that behavior is good. If you see a kid being a jerk to his parents, And I would see that too, you know, being at a game with one of my sons and afterwards the parents are hauling the gear and the kid's 10 feet in front of them pounding on a cell phone. And I said, that guy, I said, don't ever be like that jerk, ever. That, and of course, these are pretty hardball statements, but a kid respects the candid parent. A kid sees the judgment and says, you know, Dad's serious here, and this is probably the, you know, I should be listening and following through on this. The second part is I gave them tests all the time in this world in which we live. For example, when they, the eldest was 7 years old and the youngest was like 4 and a half, we were in an indoor mall and I said, pulled out my wallet and I said, here's a $5 bill for each of you. Now go get me change right now. It's not a race, but just come back with change for that $5 bill. And of course they love the test. Here's something they could do on their own. And they all wandered back, you know, after a certain amount of time. One kid struck out at one store and had to come back with another. Another kid came back with like 50 quarters or 40 quarters. Um, but I know, but we did these tests all the time. We'd pull up at a 7-Eleven in a sketchy neighborhood and I'd say, Here's $20, go in and get these 6 items and we'll be waiting in the car for you. And the kid's 6 years old. Or we'd be at an airport. Eldest, you're 8, you're in charge of the boarding passes. Here's all the stuff. Now you can get it from a machine or you can get it from one of the counter people, but just bring them back. We went grocery shopping. You guys get half of the items. Here's the list. I'll meet you back here in 30 minutes. So they constantly had these tests and they, they became very comfortable in being in these strange situations, performing a task and gaining that confidence.

And so that confidence is what gave them resilience, I'm guessing?

Correct.

Okay.

Correct. And resilience also came when they hit that setback or that obstacle. For example, the youngest kid was 5 years old, and he was at a mall birthday party with like 15 kids. And the parents who were in charge of this thing were completely disorganized, and they wandered away with the kids, 13 of the— 12 of the kids into a theater at the mall, leaving my 3— my kid and 2 other kids in the midst of a food court. Now, you can imagine the panic of these kids, and of course, the panic of a parent, you know, if you'd heard about this. But my kid remembered because we'd once been at a big football game and I said, look, you guys are so small that if you get lost, what you got to do is look for that guy or that woman with the stripe running down the side of their pants. That's a security guard or a soldier, and that person will help you. You can go right up to them and say, I'm lost, and they will help. I guarantee it. Well, that's just what he did. After a few moments, he said, hey, my dad told me this. Looked, you know, in about 5 minutes they found a security guard and got back. They got tests like this all the time and they managed to overcome them because they weren't uncomfortable being around lots of people in different situations.

Hmm, gosh, that's so wonderful. My fourth, my daughter, she, um, you know, her oldest went to Harvard, oldest sibling went to Harvard, then the next one went to University of Alabama, and the next one went to San Francisco State. And she's like, what's left for me? Like, they all did. They all did all the cool stuff. And I said, well, what is it that you want to do? And she says, well, I know that I want to spend half my life in Europe. So I want to get a degree that's half European and half American, US. And so I want to go to school in the Czech Republic. And I'm like, what? Here's a kid who could— She couldn't even ask like the pizza man for a tip. Like she just was not ready. And her dad was saying, absolutely not. And I'm like, wait a minute, this is a teaching moment. So I gave her 20 things she had to do. And when she got to 20, if she accomplished all— and they were not easy— when she did all 20, we would absolutely support her. And she did all 20. And she just finished her freshman year at the Czech Republic in Prague.

I think that's a great story. And Shellee, what it's— it's a story about accountability. Yeah, you do this, you, you, you know, climb these 20 mountains and we'll, we'll come through on the other side. And what a great lesson. I mean, that's like the fifth lesson, you know, the lesson of accountability. We, we expect you to do these things and then you will know that you're ready to go to the Czech Republic.

For sure. I had an Italian exchange student living with me, uh, 2 years ago, and it's very different, the European culture to the US culture, because she was used to just walking down to the store and getting whatever it is that she needed and not thinking twice. And I mean, the maturity level of a 16-year-old was mind-blowing, right? And then I had my stepdaughter who like could not even like answer the door. And I was like, how is that? So, right, how do you explain the difference? Some of it may be socialization, some of it may be they're born with it. I'm not sure, but I think your book touches on how do we help make them be confident and go out into the world and be successful.

And you start early, and as in the, in the case of, you know, your exchange student, probably started darn early. So that person then is pretty acclimated at the age of 16 to doing things that a 16-year-old in the United States wouldn't dream of. And it's also the idea that if you got that, you have that confidence because you, again, you've hit those setbacks And you recovered again and again.

Right. So now you're an empty nester and your boys are doing their thing. What's next for you? What— are you going back into politics? You're going to write another book?

I don't know. You know, I will tell you what the 3 boys have done because I think it, it talks, it talks to the kind of confidence they got at an early age. All three are military officers.

Wow.

One went to the Naval Academy, one went to West Point, the third one went to Williams College and then went into OCS. And all three, the two naval officers have had tours all over the world. Name it, name a region and they've been there. Asia, Middle East, North Atlantic, South America, India, everywhere. All three of them, and the third kid's a West Point grad and he's going to become an infantry officer, but they got into these, they got this kind of mindset because they were used to being around people and they were used to being the leaders and taking the hits and sharing the successes. And And so stuff that they learned at 5 and 6 years old, they now do at the age of 28 and 26 in big enterprises, aircraft carriers, guided missile destroyers, infantry companies. So you build that early on and what it can grow into and manifest itself in is pretty remarkable.

Yeah, for sure. What— did you grow up military? Where did you come up with these tasks?

No, I was in the Army, in the Army Reserve, but the test came up because I just wanted him to be in that world where anything could change in a moment. One time we were playing football together and I said, okay, we'd done it every Sunday for years. And I was about to throw a pass. And I said, you know, after I complete this to your brother, we're going to go get the donuts, which was our tradition. And the eldest kid screams out, "Dad, you just got fired from your job. We can't afford him." And, you know, he was panicky. The whole family was panicky because I was out of work. And so, you know, after the pass fell incomplete 3 feet beyond the kid's arms, I said, "Well, let's sit down in my office." And there we are on the 50-yard line. And I said, "Look, guys, we know, you all know I lost my job." Yeah. I said, you know, what have I always told you when something hard happens? You can wallow in self-pity or you can move forward. And I said, yeah, it's tough. It's going to be tough for a while. But I have you guys to be around and, you know, I need work at quarterback. But I'll tell you, the day we can't afford donuts, you'll be the first to know. It's the end of the world, right? You know, and they just, that was it. And they always would use that phrase when anything was going south for them. Oh, it's the end of the world. It gave them a release valve for whatever had happened. They drop a quart of milk on the floor in the kitchen. Oh, it's the end of the world. You know, they get an F on a test. It's the end of the world because they know they just have to— just like the old man, you have to get back up and start moving again. And so they had that uncanny ability to do that, and they've hit obstacles every, every step of the way. And it just gets easier and easier for them to absorb them and, you know, assess, advance, and adapt to it.

I love that. Well, you know, having gone through the pandemic, right, I believe you wrote another book. And what was the name of that book?

The name of that book was Your Kids Rebound from Pandemic Lockdowns. A Parent Guide to Restoring Their Family.

So I think, uh, that that might be a book that everybody with children can relate to. Um, my daughter graduated— she graduated from college during the pandemic. My son graduated from medical school during the pandemic, and my other son high school during the pandemic.

So, like, goodness.

We had a lot going on during the pandemic. So who would be a good person for that book? Who, who did you write it for?

I wrote it for parents whose kids were between the ages of about 5 and 15 who'd seen real damage, who'd seen real heartache in their kids from being at home day after day, not around their peer groups. Not on an athletic field, in a theater production, not even in a classroom. Um, and what had happened to those kids in terms of their mental health, their self-confidence, their physical health. And of course the biggest one was just the absolute gravitation towards anything electronic screens, right? During the pandemic, an average teen was spending 8 hours and 49 minutes a day on a screen. And that didn't include homework or schoolwork.

Oh, wow.

That's more time than a kid sleeps. And that's every day. That's the average. Um, and young kids, kids up to the age of 5, the average is about 2 hours, 15 minutes on some kind of screen. That's right. Below 5 years old.

Mm-hmm.

The, the first stat is from, um, AMA, American Medical Association. Second stat's from Johns Hopkins. The book itself has 250 cites in it to medical, psychological, and national survey literature. So it's not just an anecdote of, you know, some old man walking up, walking to school uphill both ways in the snow. It's all cited. Every page has probably one or two cites. So that's who it would be directed towards. And the, the best thing about the book is the first chapters deliniate the damage. The following 4 chapters say, hey, this is how you can turn your kid around. And again, all that is cited too by child development psychologists, researchers, medical doctors, and psychiatrists.

What a great gift. So if somebody wanted to reach out to you or get one of your books, how might they do that?

Certainly, uh, my website is www.nelliganbooks.com. And it also has my email address, which is jeff@resilientsons.com. I also have a Facebook page, Nelligan Books, a Twitter account, Resilient Sons, an Instagram account, Nelligan Books, and of course LinkedIn, uh, just Jeff Nelligan. And of course, the books are all available on Amazon. You just have to go to Amazon and put in Jeff Nelligan and the books will come up.

Outstanding. Thank you so much for your brilliance and all that you've done.

Well, thank you for the opportunity. And as far as what you do for a living, you know, it's essential. The right college for the right kid. Uh, it's, it's, it's the difference maker between a kid graduating in 4 years and being full of satisfaction and a kid hanging on 6 years and never graduating because he didn't choose the right school. Vital, vital service you perform.

Thank you again for being on the show. Have a wonderful afternoon.

You bet, Shellee. Thanks again.