Podcast with Hilary Truong: The Bond Between Mother and Daughter

Parents, is your teen college ready? Are you feeling overwhelmed, stressed out, or excited about your teen applying to college? Do you know what colleges are looking for? And if your kid gets in, do you know what you'll pay for it? College admission has never been so competitive or expensive. Shellee Howard will take you on a journey to help you and your teen get college ready. Now here's your host, Shellee.

Hello again, this is Shellee Howard from Parents, Is Your Teen College Ready? And today I have such a great gift for you, for all the people in your life that have teenage daughters. I'd like to welcome my guest, Hillary Truong. Welcome to the show.

Thanks, Shellee Howard. I'm so excited to be here.

Absolutely. Maybe we can start out by giving our listeners a little bit of your bio, like you're on this show, but what do you come to us with? What's the background?

Yeah. Okay. So I come to you as, um, a former teen therapist, um, for girls. Um, and I now specialize in the mother-daughter relationship, um, specifically the teen years, but, um, we all know It's a lifelong relationship. So there's so much work we can do. Um, I'm a mother. I have a daughter and a son, and I consider myself a recovered teen girl.

Okay. I can't wait to dig into that. Like that just gave me goosebumps. Um, as my listeners know, I have, uh, two boys, two girls, and an Italian exchange student. And then I have a Ugandan, uh, student I sponsor. So I love me some teenagers, girls, boys, and then, you know, just that they're so authentic, they are so real, which makes them not so fun for a lot of parents. So let's go ahead and jump in. How did you end up in this world of the mother-daughter— I'll call it an adventure. Yes.

It is an adventure. Well, it really was my work with teen girls as a therapist. I would, you know, see 5, 6 girls after school every day, and about 95% of them wouldn't let their moms in the room. And I was a trained family therapist, so that was really important to me, that parents are part of the conversation. And seeing it over and over, I just realized the breakdown. And I knew from my own experience as a teen girl that I struggled in communicating with my mom. Feeling heard by her. And so I knew there was something more. And I never learned a drop about the mother-daughter relationship in any of my schooling or training. Therapists aren't taught about it, even though we all think it's complicated and really difficult, you know, to navigate. So I went in search of those answers. I read every book I could get my hands on. And I was mentored by a woman who's a pioneer in the field. She's, um, She talks a lot about mother-daughter attachment theory. And so took all of that knowledge and decided I'm focusing on the mother-daughter relationship and helping other people get this right. And being given the gift of being able to hopefully get it right with my daughter, you know, close to the beginning.

So I love that. So your why kind of started with you without me being a therapist or digging into your past. We'll, we'll let that one sit. You have a son and a daughter. Now, isn't it the same for both boys and girls, teenagers?

There are very many, of course, there are similarities. The unique part of the mother-daughter relationship is the fact that they're both female and the emotions that are involved and the conversations that are involved. And the fact that as females, we like to be heard. And we want to be seen, especially by our mother. And so that's really, that's really at the heart of this is mothers and daughters just want to feel seen and heard by each other. And, you know, daughters always want to feel loved, and the way that they feel loved is by feeling heard and understood. So if as mothers we can get that right, we can ensure that our relationship will stay close.

Mm, that just felt really good, just the thought of you saying that. I know that a lot of times parents sign up with College Ready because they don't want to deal with their teenager, and I'm happy to take them all. I love them all. Never met a naughty one. There's always good reason. Um, and so I definitely have said in many, uh, Zoom calls and in person of the rolling of the eyes and the disrespect But what is it in your world, like if a person listening to this podcast goes, well, I mean, they're just teenagers, that's just what they're like. How do you know when your relationship with your daughter is at risk or that you really need to be proactive about this?

A lot of moms come to me when their daughters aren't opening up to them about their life anymore. You know, maybe they used to spill in the car or after school having a snack, or at bedtime, you know, when there were some quiet moments, they would talk about their day and process it with their mom. And moms will come to me when that's not happening anymore. And, you know, for me, that's a big red flag when they're not coming to you with issues, when they refuse to open up when you ask questions about what's going on, when you don't know their friends and what they're doing. That's when we need to get back in conversation because I believe that when we're in conversation, we're in relationship, with each other.

And conversation should be a two-way conversation, right, Hillary?

Yeah, absolutely. Not just a parade of questions. Yeah.

Um, I had— I learned— so my firstborn, he'll be 29 in May. It seems like just yesterday. For all you parents listening, it's like, wow, everybody told me it would go fast. It did go really fast. He's now an orthopedic surgeon, living his life, being his best version of him, and He and I used to have amazing conversations, and now he just asked me to go on vacation in between medical school, just him and I. Wow. So 29, I'm like, heck yeah. I don't know how I'm gonna pull it off, but yeah, for sure. And for the parents who are listening out there, I want you to know it is possible, right, Hillary, that this communication is possible. What is something a parent can do and when should they start doing it to really nurture this, this relationship?

I say it all the time and I feel like a broken record, but really listening to your kids and listening with the goal of understanding, not just listening to feel like, okay, that's crossed off the list, I've done that, or listening and we have our own agenda or idea about how they really feel or what's really going on. And also not feeling like we need to solve the problem, but listening with the goal of understanding what they think and how they feel and reflecting that back to them. It, it really helps them to understand what's going on and look at it from a different perspective, even without us offering our advice. It's exactly what I did as a therapist, right? I would just listen, let them talk, and then reflect back what I heard. And then I'd always ask, so what do you want to do about it? I'd let them solve the problem, right? Or at least think about it. Like, I don't know, maybe I could do this or I could do that. And you really hand them the power. And then maybe they'll say, what do you think I should do, right? And they might look for some advice. But in the meantime, you've just helped them to navigate a situation by themselves, understand how they feel, understand what's important to them, and go back to that situation and handle it. You feel connected. Right? Because you know what's going on in their life, they feel heard by you. Um, and this is really how girls mature, is through their emotional connection with their mom. And it's having conversations like this, you know, where that connection happens.

It seems so organic and so genuine and so easy. And then I think too, I feel, I feel very blessed. My, my stepdaughter and my daughter, they call me first And as much as that is a heavy thing to, to carry, I'm so grateful for it. So if there's a mom listening out there and they're just thinking, maybe we're too far down this path, like they do nothing but growl at me or roll their eyes or like they just shut me out. What would you recommend? Is it even possible to figure that out without some support from a neutral party? Right? These are questions that my mind is racing, thinking, how do we help these moms who were feeling like we did, we had a good relationship and something happened? What do you recommend?

Yeah, I was smiling because it's, it's always possible, but it's a good, it's a good question to ask. How do you do it without having someone else involved? And it really is about inviting her into the relationship a little bit more. Maybe you're, you know, setting up opportunities to spend time together, you know, having hot chocolate or tea ready for her after school or asking questions in the car and really listening to whatever it is that she says. I think as parents, we don't invite our kids enough. We'll say like, how was your day? And if they don't, if they just growl, if they don't share with us, you know, maybe we get offended. And I always say it's not about you. Don't take it personally. You have to keep trying. You have to keep getting back out there and inviting her to have conversations with you, inviting her to watch a show with you, take a walk, walk the dog, whatever it is. And in those moments, just being with her where she is and allowing, allowing that to happen.

That's so beautiful. I am smiling because with my, my first daughter. She has a very strong personality. We used to say she's going to be the first female president, or hopefully she makes it through teenage years. So all you parents who are thinking out there going, oh, I have one of those. Yeah, a little challenging. I did two things, and I don't know if this is right, Hillary, so I would like to know your perspective. The first thing I did is I did make myself available, but I spoke— I spoke the wrong language. I'm sure you've read the book Five Love Languages. Most people have. Yeah, I've heard of it. Anything. And so we did a fun challenge in my house when my kids were preteen and I wrote down what I thought their love language was and I sealed it in an envelope and I bet them a meal anywhere they wanted to go. If I got it right, they didn't complain about dinner and they were happy to eat it. And if I got it wrong, they got to go where they wanted to go. I will humbly tell you I got both wrong. What does that tell you? I was speaking my love language and not theirs. So maybe— is that, is that a thing that you have seen before?

Yeah, absolutely. Um, and I do— if you haven't recommended already, I think Parents should do that, and you can just do that quiz online to see what your love languages are. I do it with all the mothers and daughters I work with. I think it's so important. But absolutely, we get it wrong. We do see our kids sometimes through our own lens as being a teenager, what it was like for us, what we think for them, you know, just like your prediction for her in the future, right? Versus like who she really is, what she really wants, what's important to her. And so yes, I do think that that happens where we, we just don't— we think we're seeing it clearly and we're bringing our own stuff into that relationship.

The other thing I did with my teens is I did community service with them. I didn't just drop them off somewhere, but we actually talked about what they would like to do. What, what is their passion, their gift, their talent, their advocacy? That what, what gets them excited? And as soon as I leaned into that and then I didn't complain, I literally just did it with a smile on my face. Not always like super excited, but I did. I noticed that was a safe place to talk because we were talking about helping somebody else, which is a very safe place. Have you ever used that technique or am I totally off base?

No, totally. And it's absolutely the perfect age to do that. And, you know, whether— not even, you know, for college, but just to get outside of their world and help others and learn about culture and, um, and people. Um, I think that's absolutely great. There's actually a national organization for mothers and daughters to volunteer together, um, and I work with them a lot. Um, it's a beautiful way to connect and, like you said, get outside of your own relationship and talk about other people. Um, I think that's perfect.

Excellent. So as part of getting ready for college, we're also getting students ready for life, and that's why I thought you would be brilliant to, to talk to, because without this relationship, when they leave, they have a choice to come home when they graduate from college or not. Right? Before they leave, it's kind of like, well, if you want to eat, you— here you stay. But I always say it gets real when they decide, do I want to come home for spring break or summer break or after I'm done with college? So I really do believe that the work you're doing is so powerful to set up that relationship for life. And in doing so, you're preparing your daughter or children. So let's talk specifically for a moment about the relationship of mother and daughter. Maybe you can dive a little bit deeper because having two boys, two girls, I just treat each of them uniquely different regardless of what, you know, uh, what sex they are. But maybe you can talk about what dynamic happens with that mother-daughter? Or how do we know we're okay? How do we know we're in trouble? How do we just—

how do we know? Yeah, yeah. Um, well, there's, there's many different details here, and I, um, I'll start with this. Um, as women, we have needs, right? And, um, we don't always let other people meet our needs. We feel like, oh, I can do it on my own. I'm not going to ask for help, right? I can just do it all. Um, and what I see as the dynamic between mothers and daughters is that mothers, when they have a daughter, they lean on her to have— for help, for assistance with meeting those needs. And I'm really talking about emotional needs, um, rather than leaning on their partner or their friends, their own mother. And so, um, this dynamic then sets up the daughter to be disconnected from her own needs and feelings and feeling like she needs to take care of her mother. This happens a lot with the eldest daughter where she feels responsible for her mom's feelings. Even my daughter, she's 8, she'll say things like, "Well, I didn't want to say that because I didn't want to hurt your feelings." You know, and so I have to say to her, "I want— it's always more important to me that you tell me the truth. You don't have to worry about protecting my feelings. I'm an adult, you know, I do that on my own." So that's number 1 is when moms feel taken care of, they don't lean on their daughters and expect too much from them. And, you know, that's also connected to just expecting our daughters to grow up faster, be more responsible. We're preparing them for a world that's sort of out to get them and not going to treat them fairly, right? So we don't always really nurture our daughters. We're more like launching them into the world and protecting them. And so a lot of this is just slowing down and really paying attention to your daughter, giving her the love and listening, you know, that she needs. The other piece of this is that, you know, as we just said before, the relationship is lifelong. And one of the first stages where things start to get difficult is the adolescent years when a daughter is starting to learn about herself and, you know, go in search of her identity. And I believe that she could find that through her relationship with her mom and learning about the women in her family. The next stage is when the daughter moves out, which is going, you know, going to college, being on her own. And so there's, Each stage, you have to navigate that in a different way, right? You have to be sensitive. So what does she need? What do I need? How do we talk about that so we can meet somewhere in the middle? Um, you know, other stages are having a partner, the daughter becoming a mother, the mother becoming a grandmother. Um, and so when you have that communication set up where you're really listening to each other and being honest about what you need, um, you can, you can get through every stage.

Hmm, so I'm, I'm gonna ask because I don't want to assume. When you work, do you— when you support, do you support the student and the parent at the same time? What is the, like, the, the practical part of, of how this works?

Yeah, if a daughter's on board for doing this work, I work with both the mother and daughter. If the daughter's not on board, we don't force them. And I work with the mom and I always say, you know, I'm gonna, my job is to make you the expert of your daughter. So I'm gonna teach you everything I know and help you understand your daughter and what she needs from you. When I work with a mother and daughter together, we have sessions together, all three of us, and then I work with them individually. So then they can really let down their guard, share what's on their mind. Just like you said before about teenagers, when you, you know, when you give them the space to talk, they will. And so then I will hear things that maybe the mom's never heard before and vice versa. And then we bring that together. We bring that into the joint session and really talk about what's been on their hearts and, you know, what they need from, from each other and what they need from me.

That sounds so simple and a great strategy, right? I know when I meet with teenagers, that they can dream really big with me, and then as soon as I get a parent in the room, they have nothing to say. And I just am guessing they don't want to let their parent down, or they don't think their dream is dreamy enough, or, you know, that type of thing. So I do encourage parents to, to be involved, and also I do encourage students to have time where they can truly be genuinely themselves. So it sounds like you're doing the same thing. I love that. Let's kind of venture into— so the world right now, students are saying, I'm anxious, I'm depressed, I'm overwhelmed, my friends are this, I'm that. I don't mean to downplay it at all. I just am hearing it at a much higher level than ever before. Is that something you're seeing and is that a concern that we should have as parents?

Yes, unfortunately I do. It's something I've seen for years. So just the recent CDC findings about teenagers, it wasn't a surprise to me, but what I felt like it did was wake parents up, you know, and really wake up other people who aren't in the fields to understand what's been going on. Their mental health is suffering. They're searching in the wrong places for support. They're feeling disconnected. And I think getting back to some of these basics of relationships and being connected to your parents more than your peers is really going to support them. And of course, good mental health care, you know, if there is concerns about overwhelming anxiety or depression or any of that.

Yeah, so we spend time at each of our meetings with our students talking about self-care. I'm a big— I'm just a big advocate for everyone, male, female, of having downtime, that time to take a breath, that time to journal, reflect. Is there anything that you can share that would be a simple practical thing that we can maybe support our daughters with so they can, if they're feeling overwhelmed— I mean, preparing, getting these kids ready for college is competitive, I'm not going to lie. But if we do it with a plan and a strategy and little bites versus just this big monster in the room is how we approach it. Is there anything else I might be able to share with my students or my families that would help them to, to maybe get out of this anxiety or overwhelm?

I think one of the things I noticed with my clients is that they're too busy, that they don't— like, the fact that they have to build in time to slow down and reflect and journal, um, it tells me that they don't have enough time, right? Like, when, when I was a teenager, I had so much time to lay around in my room, talk on the phone, right? Just think and listen to music. And I just don't think our teenagers have the same. And so I really would encourage them to get comfortable with that, having time by yourself, being with your thoughts, journaling, writing, art, whatever it is that they do to express themselves creatively. One of the families I work with, they have like family dates. And so they put them on the calendar like everything else. And they get together and do something fun together. And it's built in, it's protected, nothing else can interfere with it. And I think that's important as well, the time with the family and just time alone to just chill out and explore.

Right. Yeah, I often will tease my teenagers when we're getting deep into planning for college and I need them to take a breath because I can see them kind of shrinking into, oh, this is scary. I will tell them, you know, when's the last time you played out in front of your house? And waited till the streetlights came on and then went inside, they're like, what? Or when's the last time you drank out of a hose? They're like, why would you do that? And so sometimes we can, as, as that next generation, help them to, to see that it— we survived and we had some, some downtime. It wasn't all hyper-focused or overwhelming. So I love that, you know, the students I deal with are very busy and their parents are very busy. And so I, I like to help them where they can get two things for the price of one. Like, if they're doing community service, they're helping somebody else out, they're learning about what's important to them, and they're gaining some type of leadership. So when you do something like that, you're kind of checking a bunch of different boxes. And so are there other things that you can recommend that maybe a mother and daughter can do that, that would be fun and that the teenager would say, yes, this is not punishment, I would like to do this?

I, I think what the teenager likes to do is always a great place to start. You know, what's she into? What is she eating, what is she enjoying doing, watching? That's always a great place to start. If, if you don't need to start from the beginning, then I think spending time with other women in your family, aunts, sisters, grandmothers, learning, talking, telling stories about the women in your family. This is how daughters learn about themselves too, is by seeing themselves through the eyes of the women who came before them and learning about the strengths or the weaknesses or any hardships they had to overcome. I really do believe in the power of connecting as women, especially the women who you come from. So doing that and yeah, and I think allowing your daughter space to dream, asking her about, you know, what are her dreams and having zero judgment in return. Like, well, I think you'd be really great at this. Like, nope. What does she think? What does she want, right? When I work with moms or with even with moms who are, you know, maybe 60, 70, they'll say like, I didn't have dreams, or I don't think my mom had dreams. Like no one gave her permission to dream about her future and what she wanted and what she pictured for herself. And I think we're doing better with that with our girls, but these are conversations to be had. Those are the kinds of conversations I'm having with girls about what they want for themselves and how they see themselves.

It's, it's so important because if this work is not done before they leave for college, they can get caught up in feeling the wrong kind of love, um, the wrong kind of balance of life, the self-worth issues. So having you on my podcast was so important to me. I think, you know, sons have their own world that they are navigating. But daughters, like you said, have a very important place with their mom. The balance of not being a friend and still being a parent and having a good conversation— these are all challenges. So if a family's feeling like, how do I get a hold of you?

How—

I need help. Like, I'm just thinking of parents on this call going, ah, I, I've tried, this is not working for me. How can they reach you?

Yeah, um, so I'm on social media. I'm on Instagram and Facebook. I'm Hillary May Co. And my website is a really great place to learn about how I support moms or moms and daughters together, and that's hillarymay.com. And then after I'm done supporting them and getting them to the place where they want to be, um, something I love to do is travel with them to celebrate, celebrate their relationship and really enjoy some time together that's nurturing the relationship.

Now you're speaking my language. That's what I'm talking about. Well, thank you, Hillary, so much for all of your insight and being willingness, your willingness to share. Again, listeners, the details will be in the show notes. If you are just needing somebody to talk to yourself or maybe get that conversation started, please reach out to Hillary. Thank you so much for being on Parents as Your Teen College Ready.

Thanks so much.