Podcast with Paul Rivas

Yes, today I have the opportunity to speak with Paul Revis. He has written the book This Book Will Not Be on the Test. He has also done an online study skills course called Better Grades in Less Time. I can't wait to learn about that one. And he also does one-to-one help, um, for people who would like more information. I can't wait to introduce my guest today. Welcome to the show, Paul.

Thank you. Thank you. This is exciting. Thank you for hitting me up for this.

You are so welcome. So our listeners are wondering, with the title of Better Grades in Less Time, can you help our, our clients, our podcasters, um, understand, is that possible?

Possible. It's almost a foregone conclusion. So the reason that I can promise people better grades in less time is that almost everybody is doing most things in an inefficient way. So if students were to just stop doing the things that they're doing inefficiently, they would get better grades in less time just by stopping doing the dumb stuff. If they were to do anything of what I teach them in my online course or in my individual course, which is the same thing, 6 to 8 hours of study skills instruction. If they do any of that stuff, then they'll get even better grades in less time. And if they do half of it, oh my gosh, they'll be cured forever. And they'll get whatever grades they want to get in the most efficient way for as long as they can. But the, so basically the The reason I can assure people that they're going to get better grades in less time is that the grades— grades are stupid and arbitrary and inconsistent. And really the way that I can promise this is that if you focus on actually learning the stuff, you will always get the grades you want. But as we all know, we have gotten A's in classes in which we have not mastered the material. So there's a crucial difference here between learning and grades. Learning is real and you get to take it with you after you graduate. Grades are imaginary and they evaporate every time you go to a different school.

Wow, that, that's a big thought because we've been taught, at least in the U.S., I know internationally school, school is taught a bit differently, but the challenge is we've been taught to take a test to get an A. So I often tell students who are taking the SAT, ACT that it's really more about beating the test than actually your IQ. So this concept of better grades in less time and actually learning the material sounds amazing. How did this get started?

Well, I grew up at a college campus. UC Santa Barbara, and I started working there in 8th grade for money. I'm dead serious. 8th grade, I'm doing statistics at college basketball games for $15 a game. That's a sweet gig. And that started my off-and-on 20 years working at the college with all sorts of jobs. The last job I had was teaching study skills in the tutoring center, and I did that for 3 years. And the way a big research university in California works is that there is an office for people with learning accommodations and stuff. And you go to that office and you say, "I need to study better." And they say, "Go see Paul." And that's how it works for 3 years. Anybody with any learning difference or anybody else, grad students, high schoolers on summer programs, Anybody who came through UC Santa Barbara who wanted to learn to study better during a period of 3 years, they landed in my office. And never having taught this stuff before, I was quite open-minded and I did this for a few years and I figured out that all anybody needs are these 6 hours of stuff, which is motivation, time management, Reading, note-taking, like in class, tests, and papers. 6 things. Learn how to do these 6 things well in that order, and you will be wildly successful. The problem with grades is that, you know, I mean, anybody who ever took French or Spanish in high school knows that grades do not equal learning. Period. Period. Period.

Yeah, and I think that's the frustrating part for students is they may get an A in Spanish 1, but by the time they get to 3 or 4, they're like, wait a minute, I'm, I'm not ready to have this conversation.

Very interesting. Yeah, everybody, everybody, every human is delusional and lies to themselves all day long about everything. And students are no different. So how you draw the line between learning and grades, like you really have to police your own delusions and figure out for real when you know this stuff well enough and you can stop studying versus when you need to go practice a little more. Right? And that's really, that's like, that's the million-dollar question. When can I stop studying? When can I go to sleep knowing that I'm going to get whatever grade I want to get tomorrow? So we work a lot on that, like self— the awareness of how do you know when you know something, right? And it looks a little bit different for different kinds of students, um, right? You know, athletes get this really quickly. I love working with athletes because athletes know that there is— there is no such thing as cramming in sports. There are no shortcuts. You work really hard for a healthy amount of time a healthy number of days per week for months at a time, pursuing a goal that may never come. And that's what you do. And then you show up again tomorrow. That's it.

Hmm.

Yeah.

So the interesting thing is, right, you help all kinds of students, and because students learn differently, um, I often will talk to a family who will say, well, my student has a great GPA, but their test score is not good. Can you help families understand why that might be?

Yes, that is— lower grades on tests are— now, if we're talking about SAT, ACT test score versus grades, that's a whole different animal. Um, I'm just talking— I'm talking about real classes where you learn real stuff that's going to matter to your life. Uh, you know, people doing better on homework or class participation than they do on tests is the number one reason that people call me, right? So basically, unless you have taken the class before or read 100 books about the subject for fun by accident, unless you've done those things, then you're gonna have to like hustle to learn this stuff. Right? So you're going to have to, you know, the easiest way to learn something, the only way to go from a B to an A, and let's just start with that. Like, let's say, so, all right. So the reason people don't do well on tests, there's a couple of causes. One could be the homework, the design of the homework is insufficient to ensure mastery of the material within the 2 or 3 week timeframe. That's the most obvious reason, right? School is not about learning. School is about childcare, period, right? The teacher is there to make sure the kids don't burn down the building. If they have any energy left to teach you anything, it's a miracle, right? We know school has nothing to do with learning. Okay? If you're going to learn anything, it's in spite of school. The point of school is to rack up a whole bunch of credentials that might get you something somewhere else. Okay? The point of the rest of your life is to go be awesome. Right? So with school, you gotta give 'em what they want as fast as possible so that you can get on with the rest of your life and do real things. Okay? Not like the contrived gauntlet of school. Okay? So people who don't get the A's they want on the tests, it is because of this. They are not reviewing. First of all, they're not previewing the lecture content for 2 minutes before they get to the class. Mm-hmm. So they're showing up kind of cold and not having learned the words that are gonna be introduced that day. They are taking notes wrong by writing too much down and not paying enough attention. They are not summarizing the, the lecture content with the 2 or 3 pieces that will be on the test in a couple weeks because they have to scurry off to the next class. That's proof that high school is not about learning. Uh, then they do the homework too late in the day. They do the homework or the studying after dinner, after sports practice, and after dinner, when we know for a fact that nothing has ever worked. Nothing has ever worked after dinner. And in fact, I refuse to work with people after dinner. I'm the only supplemental educational person I know who refuses to work with students after dinner because it doesn't work.

Interesting.

And then they don't review the subject at the smartest time of the week, which is weekend mornings, right? An hour after the kid gets up, the kid can sleep till 2 o'clock. I don't care. But then 3 o'clock is their quote unquote morning on the weekend. That's when they should be reviewing every subject for a little bit, picking out the important stuff and putting it in a study guide that they can use to quiz themselves when they get a spare 10 minutes here or there. And they can share it with their younger friends and help them learn the stuff next year.

Wow.

That's it. So, so simple. It is that simple. It's the only way to go from a B to an A is to review every class every weekend, make your own study guide, and quiz yourself with it. That's it. There's no other way. Now, what they don't tell you, and I wish they would tell you this, like, let's take a math or a chemistry or a physics or a computer science class. You get in there and you're slumming it in the 91, 90, 89 range, and you're working your butt off and you're wondering, how are these people? Like, I don't understand. I always get A's. How come I can't manage more than a B+ in this math class? And the reason is this: the only people who get A's in high school or college math or anything with math in it are the people who have already learned that material. The school will not admit that to you. That is a fact. Take it to the bank. If you're not— if the people around you are getting A's in math and you're not, it's because they already know the stuff. 'cause they did it that summer or they did it 4 years ago for fun, right? Which if you don't do math for fun, it's gonna be hard for you to wrap your head around the idea that there are kids in America who do math for fun from 5 to 9:00 PM for 6 or 8 years. And I know kids like that. Sure, yeah. So, you know, it's real simple. Like, you know, the problem is focus on the learning, don't settle for A's.

So if a student was to ask me, because I work with students all day, they will say, Shellee Howard, do you think it would be wise for me to take a class prior to taking the class over summer? So in other words, taking an Algebra 1 class before it actually counts for a grade. Is that, is that what you're speaking to right now?

It doesn't have to be a quote-unquote class. Classes are— classes move slowly and are by definition inefficient. Anything that involves other people is going to have built-in inefficiencies. Anything that has a teacher is going to have inefficiencies. Anything that has reporting requirements is going to have inefficiencies. You don't need a class. Uh, you know, in the old days You know, my mom would bring home math workbooks that she'd get at the bookstore and I'd do math all day out of the workbook over the summer. She brought home a typing book from the public library and I had to type 2 pages a day on a typewriter, a real one, the summer before 6th grade, right? So it doesn't have to be a class, but practice, sure, and more kinds of exposure to this stuff, right? Like it's not fair to expect any given teacher to be God's gift at explaining that subject. People get into professions for all sorts of funky reasons, right? You know, being a teacher, a high school teacher, is an impossible job. And it's— if you're expecting something of your teacher, you're doing it wrong. Like, see your teacher as a human with an impossible job and don't expect them— it's not their— it might be your teacher's job to teach you math, but whose problem is it if you don't learn math? Mm, right. So like, you got to go in with a little bit of a motor and wanting to learn things. And not just— let's say, you know, you're— let's say you're in a class where, you know, you hate the subject. Okay, that's fine. But you have to know why other people like it, because the world is full of other people who like this thing, and you're gonna have to deal with them. So, you know, you don't have to love the subject, but you do have to know kind of You have to have reasons for wanting to learn it. Now, taking a whole class ahead of another class, I don't know. I mean, that's— I don't know about that, but nowadays there's a zillion ways that you can practice things on smaller time scales than like an hour a day, 5 days a week, right? It might not take that. Like, and that's a really good point. Like the glacial pace of instruction in American high schools means that if you give me a kid who's super smart, like take any AP class in American high school, you give me a super smart kid, they can learn it out of the review book 5 times faster than a teacher can teach it to 30 people, right? So like it doesn't need to be a whole class, but definitely if you want an A in math or anything that has math in it, You— it would be— you better learn the math before you get there, or otherwise you're going to be— otherwise it's going to consume your life, which might be— which might be okay depending on what else you have going on. But if you have a lot going on, you know, no one's got time for that.

So thinking about the different students I have, and because I am a mother of 4, my children are all unique. Um, not all are motivated at the same level. So what if you have a student who may not be motivated to pick up the book over summer to get that jump start? What would be your recommendation to that parent?

So the chapter in my book about unmotivated kids— and there is a chapter on every kind of kid, right? So this is the book. There's a chapter on every kind of kid. And I'm not kidding. Kids with no plan, kids with ill-conceived plans, kids who don't apologize or write thank you notes, kids who don't test well, kids who procrastinate, kids with ADHD, kids with slow processing speed, kids who blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay, unmotivated kids. There's a check. Unmotivated kids. It's just Far more common than finding an unmotivated child is finding a child whose motivations are not yet clear to them or whose motivations don't overlap with yours and mine, right? So everyone's motivated by something— cookies, video games, I mean, not farting in public, anything. Everybody is motivated by something, right? So if anybody who's not motivated for school just hasn't seen the big picture yet And the big picture being, well, for some people, the big picture is you don't need school. If you're going to go be a steamfitter and make $100 grand a year from the time you're 20 years old, you're good. You don't need school. Okay. But if you're, if the big picture, you're not going to be a steamfitter and you're going to have to go work in some office, you know, thinking up fun, smart stuff all day long, you know, then then it's gonna matter, right? Like, it's gonna matter, and you're gonna have more choices if you get more A's. Now, I talk— now I say grades, but, you know, grades, like, the grades don't matter. It's about the learning. But, you know, what matters most in high school is A's. A's. The more A's you have, the longer your list of choices is for college. Now, one something that most that people just don't realize in this country is that almost all of our colleges are intended for B students. Hmm. Yeah. You know, nobody, people who know that don't like to say it out loud, but it's true. Go look at the colleges. There's about 50 of them who are going after high-flying smart kids. Every other college is just going after warm bodies. So, you know, like on the one hand, I'm banging on all day about just go get the A's, 'cause it's not that much more work. And guess what? You'll actually learn something. On the other hand, you know, like America wasn't built on people getting A's. It was built on people graduating from college. And so, you know, really like everybody, yeah. So this, the college graduation thing, you know, the crisis, alleged crisis, like, you know, that's— people are talking about the wrong way. It has, it has nothing to do with anything except money, right? Like, the people who've had impossible upbringings have little or no chance to making it through college with any money left. So that's— so you asked me, like, so that's some— that is probably, to me, the thing I care most about in the world is that people get out of college not owing money, or people get out of college and they don't have— it's okay if you owe money if you're rich, right? So everybody should get out of college in a financially sound position, ready to pay rent in the cruel world. That's what I'm going for. So that's why I insist on learning and not settling for A's, right? Because what happens if you're gonna be an architect? We've all met people who wanna be architects who can't do math. Okay, what happens if that person gets A's in math, but they don't actually learn this stuff? What happens to that building that they build? It falls down, everyone in it dies. Every— all those families sue the heck out of the person that made that building. That's why learning matters. Hmm.

So a couple things I heard you say that I think are really important for our listener is, number one, you know, Learning is the key to going through school, and not going into debt is very important. So I, I speak about that in my book, How to Send Your Student to College Without Losing Your Mind or Your Money. And since all my children have graduated debt-free from college, I will tell you it is a game changer when they adult without debt. So I agree with you there. And, you know, for those families listening to this who may be frustrated— I'm hearing this more and more because of COVID— they're depressed, they're anxious, they're overwhelmed. How are you helping families to get past this because of COVID Well, It's really a bummer, isn't it?

Like, what a crime. What a crime against children, right? And this is— I'll tell you, it's especially painful if, like, if you live in the hood like I used to. Oh my God, that is depressing. I can't think about it for more than 5 minutes without getting depressed. Like, nobody learned anything for 2 years. Everybody got dumber for 2 years. So the first thing is like, realize that it's going to take years, years, and lots of elbow grease to make up that time, particularly in math and reading, right? So one thing I would suggest would be prioritize, and this sounds crazy because this is one of the big problems with like low-income schools, they prioritize math and reading at the expense of everything else. Then no one learns anything about the world and they're focused on reading these impossible things. But, you know, the math— math gets harder every single week until you change your major or graduate. It gets harder every single week. So prioritize learning the math. Don't settle for your exhausted teacher's insufficient explanations or your, you know, regulation-strapped school's shoddy reporting. Make sure you learn the math and get back to reading for fun. Yeah, right. Get back to reading for fun. And that's— that really, those two things are irrespective of COVID but a thousand times more essential now. Because guess what? School sucks for everybody, even the teachers, right? Like, you think— you think school during COVID sucks? Try teaching school to 30 little black squares on Zoom, right? That's depressing, right? Like, my cousin is a public teacher in the DCPS system Oh my gosh. Right? I wouldn't wish that job on anybody. Right? So the first thing is excuse yourself for everything sucking. It wasn't your fault, but guess what? It is your problem. Right? So you have to recover your love or at least tolerance of learning things. And for me, the best way to do that is reading for fun. Now you say, but my kid doesn't read. Not true. Every kid is reading all day long on their phone. It's just the parents don't recognize it as reading. Right? So I mean, I have students who famously don't read who know— who God knows where they learn this stuff if they allegedly— but because they're reading, stupid. They're reading it on the internet. Okay, that's fine. That counts, right? Read for fun and make sure you learn the math because if you don't learn the math— Algebra 1 is the most important class in America. If you don't learn Algebra 1, you're never going to get an A in math ever again or in physics or chemistry or computer science or econ. Wow. So that's like, you know, algebra has a bad rap. Oh, I could do great in the world. No, no, no, those are lies, right? Calculus, if you didn't take calculus, you're missing like half the point about the world. Like, I truly believe this. If you don't understand calculus, you're missing— math describes the world. Calculus is the most amazing thing there is. It's the finest math, okay? If you don't take it, you're You're like, you're blowing it. Like, get— anybody can do calculus. Anybody can do calculus. Anybody can do calculus if they learned Algebra 1. And but guess what? You can only do Algebra 1 if you learned your frickin' times tables and fractions. Mm-hmm. I have a dear friend who is a math tutor. She makes her living fixing problems that developed in 3rd or 5th grade for math. Okay, she gets— she only— all she does is she gets people who are middle school and high school who are having a hard time in math. She figures out, oh, what did you not learn from 3rd or 5th grade? Let me teach that to you. Boom, fixed.

So I ask, um, all of my guests what they are passionate about and what they're an advocate for. I don't even need to ask you. I can see it, I can feel it, I can hear it. And we are so grateful that you have been on the show. Now Before we wrap up, how can families get a hold of you if they have this student who needs this type of help? What is the best way for them to reach you?

They can email me. It's real simple. Paul@smithrevis.com. Paul, me, Paul, the real guy. You email me, I will get back to you. You call me, I will answer the phone. You want to know what's up? I will talk to you for an hour and tell you what's up. And that does not, that has nothing to do with whether we work together. Are you like, you're like, hey, my kid this. I'll tell you what's up with your kid. I'll tell you exactly what's up with your kid. It'll take me about 40 minutes to give you every single thing you need to know about your kid, right? And I enjoy that. It's fun. Uh, and I don't charge people for that, and that's why I get to be brutally honest like I am, right? Um, so email me, sure. Uh, go to smithrebus.com and you can see all this study skills work I've pumped out over the last 8 years. Um, there's 100 articles on study skills on my blog, smithrevis.com/blog. 100 articles on study skills and other people in this realm. Um, and, and so something I love so much that I have to say, if you know anybody out there with Spanish-speaking parents I have 3 hours of live in Spanish study skills instruction with an audience of Spanish-speaking parents of American high school kids, 3 hours. My 6-hour course is what I do one-on-one with people. I have a 3-hour version free in Spanish on my YouTube channel. No one's ever looked at it, right? Right. I'm pumping out brilliant stuff free or cheap. No one ever uses it. Never, right? Almost never. Like, so it's weird. So like the book, the book costs $30. Do you want to pay $30 for the book? Well, most people would rather hire me at $275 an hour because some kids aren't going to read the book like you said. Okay, so for that, there's an online course. There's online course. It's only $500. You don't need me. Just go to the online course. No, my kid won't do that. All right. So there's something for everybody. So it's important for me to be able to help whoever wants to be helped in English or Spanish at whatever price they want to pay.

Outstanding. Well, our time is up today, but we are so grateful for you and what you're doing in the world, and we appreciate you, uh, coming on and sharing.

Thank you, Shellee Howard. That was super fun.

You're welcome.