Think Outside the U.S.: How Studying in the UK Can Save Time, Money, and Stress

Parents, is your teen college ready? Are you feeling overwhelmed, stressed out, or excited about your teen applying to college? Do you know what colleges are looking for? And if your kid gets in, do you know what you'll pay for it? College admission has never been so competitive or expensive. Shellee Howard will take you on a journey to help you and your teen get college ready. Now here's your host, Shellee.

Hello parents, this is Shellee Howard. Parents, is your teen college ready? Today on our podcast, I have such an amazing guest I cannot wait to share with you. Jackie, welcome to the show.

Thank you, Shellee. I'm so happy to be here.

Can you tell our listeners a little bit about who you are, why they might want to listen?

Yeah, great. So I grew up in Philadelphia and I went to a public school, didn't have great grades, started out college searching. I knew I wanted to be as far away as possible. So I was looking at Florida, I was looking at California, I was looking at Hawaii universities, and I asked my mom, can we go to a college fair? We walked around this college fair. It's this national college fair called NACAC. And we walked around, there was probably 300 universities presented. And my mom was so enthusiastic and just looking around all the different universities. We literally went row by row talking to each university. And by the end of the college fair was a small international section. By that point, I'm exhausted. I'm tired. And she's like, no, no, please. I just, I wanted to go home. And she said, no, please. I really want to speak to them and check this out. So we walked over, she spoke to a few people, and then she said to me, Jackie, what about studying? What about earning your degree in the UK? And I thought she was crazy. And I thought, What do you mean this is a possibility? And number 2, you're okay with it? And she said to me, yes, that you can get your bachelor's degree in 3 years and a master's in 1 year. Isn't that what you wanted to do is to get your master's? You'll save 2 years worth of tuition and living expenses. And again, I thought she was crazy. I said, listen, I am down. I am open to this. And I thought she would call me later. And we went through the process and I earned my bachelor's and master's degree in the UK. I studied at Aberystwyth University in Wales, where King Charles, when he was a prince, he went to study Welsh for, for a semester. That's where I did my bachelor's degree in education and fine art. And then I stayed and completed my master's degree at University of Roehampton in London and in education leadership and management. And from there, I have been in the field of international education ever since. I am a huge advocate for students, whatever type of student that is interested in getting away, exploring, adventurous, wanting to expand themselves, start fresh, start new. I, I love those type of students. I think they are the best fit to study and earn your degree in the UK. Being in the field for so long, for over 10 years, I realized that this was definitely— I've known for throughout my whole tenure of working in the field that this was such a great opportunity for students. But what I realized is that resources were lacking on how to support students and parents throughout the whole process. And so I created my company called the UK Study Expert. And it allows students or parents to— we have a free quiz for students and parents to input their academic profile, and it will match them their top 5 UK university choices based on the students' academics, interests, and so forth. And it is probably the most accurate quiz out there, and it's free. And so if you're looking to just start the process and seeing What options are available? This is a huge, wonderful tool to help students, even students who don't know what they want to study, to jump in and see what is available to them. And then once the student or parent completes the quiz and they get the results, they get free information about the next steps and what they need to do and who they need to contact and what the application process is like. So if you have a child who is unsure but definitely wants to get out and you're worried about out-of-state tuition and, or needs— your child is looking for a fresh start, looking for that independence, the UK might be a really great option for them. Definitely check out the UK Study Expert.

Oh my gosh, there's so many things going through my mind. So Jackie and I were talking before the show and I didn't want to give too much, I didn't want to take too much of her, steal her thunder, but I have a zillion questions that parents, I think you might be interested in. So Jackie, my first question is, when you were in high school, what did you want to do for a career?

I wanted to be an art teacher. I was thinking about being being a high school art teacher, maybe a college art teacher. So that's where the fine art and education came through. My— I painted, I did many oil paints. I worked under— which is, this is a really crazy story, but my oil painting teacher was Bob Ross's son's ex-fiancée who taught me. So I've done so many classes with her. So that was the pathway I originally wanted to do, but I also had this urge in me leadership, management, something— I wanted to go in that direction as well. So I wasn't sure about being an art teacher, but I also loved education and I wanted to improve education. Coming from Philadelphia to inner city public school, I've seen a lot and I've been through a lot of experiences with my high school, and I wanted to better the education system from that experience. So that is where all those elements come in to my pathway.

So parents, if you have a teenager who doesn't know what they want to do, this is a perfect segue, right? Some students know. After doing this 18 years, my firstborn knew exactly where he wanted to go. He wanted to go to Harvard. He wanted to go pre-med. He stayed his path. He's now an orthopedic surgeon. My second knew where she wanted to go. She's now a nurse. My third, he was that kid. He was the one that's like, I'm good at a lot of different things, but I'm not a master at any of them. And so he was the first time that I had to face this, what you're talking about, Jackie. And then my fourth, oh, you're going to love her. My fourth, my second daughter. She was you truly, and she just graduated from the Czech Republic of Prague and got a dual US and European degree from AAU. And she is— when you tell your story, I'm like, how did you meet my daughter? Like, crazy. So there is a beautiful fit for some students. Is it a perfect fit for all? No school is a perfect fit for all. It's really what is the best thing. So we, right, like to focus on the child and what it is that they want. But let's say a parent's thinking, well, I have lots of children and this may work for one of them. Entrepreneurs, it's brilliant. That's what my daughter's doing. She got a law and business degree in 3 years for $27,000. So I'm tooting your horn like it's a real thing. All 4 of mine graduated without debt. And because she didn't really like school, she didn't try that hard in high school. And so she wasn't going on a merit scholarship. She wasn't going to get money thrown at her. So we needed to think outside of the box. So for families who are like, okay, all right, I'm following you, Shellee Howard, I have one of these. What is the first step? Beyond the quiz, the quiz is such a gift. We'll definitely put that in the show notes. But I remember my daughter's father, my husband, and he's like, there's no way she's going. Like, your mom was on board, right? That's the shocker. My husband's like, no way. She is so not going there. Young girl, no way. It's not going to happen. How do you help families with that first big hurdle of, wait a minute, how does all of this work for my 18-year-old?

So what I do is I ask them all of their concerns, what the issue is. Is it safety? Is it community? Is it health and well-being? Um, we go through all those questions, and then once the parent finds out, like, let's talk about safety, right? It's illegal to have guns in the UK. It's London. I felt so safe there, and biggest city in the UK. And yeah, safety, I felt, and many other Americans feel very safe. Healthcare— when you apply for your visa, there is an NHS, uh, health surcharge that you have to pay £100 per year, and you pay that upfront when you apply for your student visa. That health surcharge is basically your health insurance in the UK. So anything that happens, you are completely covered. There are no surprise bills, there's no what-ifs or anything. I had medical care there, it was wonderful. Sometimes you hear about, you know, healthcare system over there. Never had any issues. No surprise bills. Um, yeah, the things you talk about, any concerns that you have for your child, and let's get through them and let's talk about them because there are some, you know, what people think it is over there, and actually it's— might be surprised that it's completely different from what they thought. And, and it's, it's constantly— the UK is evolving, every country is evolving. Um, So it's kind of unraveling all those concerns and going through them together.

So what you briefly touched on, of course, the cost is a big one for a lot of people who are in the States, like, I can't, or I don't want to pay for a US degree. So beyond the cost, what are some of the other benefits that a student would experience by studying in Europe?

So specifically for the UK, in England, Wales, and Northern Ireland, they're 3-year bachelor's degrees. Scotland is 4 years long. So if a student is unsure about what they want to study, but they have an idea of the subject that they want to go into, then Scotland is a great option because you can dabble in 2 other subjects alongside, you know, your declared major. And then as the years progress, you can continue to narrow down year by year on that final major. So the US system is actually based off the Scottish system, but the US system just has way more general education classes and so forth. But that's how we adapted this system. Now England, Wales, and Northern Ireland, because they're 3-year bachelor's degrees, you're going directly into that subject. You're not doing any general education classes. So, for example, if your, your child loves creative writing but is not a math student at all, um, great classes, um, greatest and weighs down their GPA, UK might be a great option for them to do just creative writing and never have to do a math or science course. So that's one of the benefits. Another benefit is for a type of student who is craving independence or wants to— is adventurous. The thing I love telling students and families about this is that students have their own room as soon as they start their studies. They're not sharing accommodation with any other students. And it's still affordable when studying— when living on campus in the US. And this— they call it a flat, like a small style apartment on campus. Um, each flat is up to maybe 6 to 8 students per flat, and they each have their own kitchen. So there isn't an expectation of a meal plan when they arrive. Um, there are universities that do have meal plans, but just not as common as it is here in the US. So it is really expected for the student to cook on their own, get groceries. So I feel like the UK really provides that opportunity for students to be independent, um, soon as they arrive, which is amazing because I feel that most American students are kind of catered, babied as soon as they arrive. I don't know how that really helps them adapt to the real world later, but I felt that really helped me grow as a person. Um, but yeah, there's two of the benefits, but, um, go on and on. There's a huge list. Um, do want to say another thing is transport is so accessible in the UK. Trains, buses, so easy to get around from city to city to the airports, anything like that as well.

Yeah, it's interesting that, um, you speak on the UK because my experience is more all over Europe because of where my daughter chose. So parents, just be mindful if you're not familiar. Like other places like Prague, my daughter did have to share room her first year and her second and her third, and it's not on campus. And she roomed with a Ukrainian, somebody from Japan, somebody from Hawaii. That was an interesting one. And so it's very global. So the mindset, I think, is wide open. The other thing, if I had to do a do-over, why I would do it is because she got to tour all of the countries in Europe on the weekends with her girlfriends. I'm like, what? And it was so cheap because it's all public transportation. So Jackie, can you speak to How is it socially different, right? There's no big football games. There are some differences— sorority, you know, kind of US life. But on the flip side, there's some things that you won't get in the US. So maybe talk about life socially for you while you were in the UK.

Yeah, socially it is a bit different. Um, mentioned we don't have football football games, but we do have many clubs and societies that students can be a part of. We also have a student union secretary, and they also are part of the university community and bringing events to the university. There are so many different things that are going on. The thing I do wanna mention is that you are legal to drink when you are 18. Again, it's that mindset. You are an adult. So they do have like on campus and it is, you know, is security on campus. It's just not that enforced as it is that you'd find in an American university. There's always different things happening. They're not worried about drunk driving because not many students drive. Or need to drive when they're at university. Everything's right there, or they can take public transportation. So yeah, there's so many different events that students can be a part of, and even just if they're part of a university town or the city, um, I've met so many students, especially that you mentioned, you know, Waterloo, it's such a global community. I felt the same way as well. You're meeting students from all different types of walks of life. And, um, you do find students during the weekend traveling and going to visit. I had a group of students, um, my master's degree, and we did like a Euro trip during the spring. So it was so easy, so affordable because you're already there. Um, we have so many great opportunities to meet students and get involved.

So good. So when families are looking at, is this going to be a good fit? And for the child socially, emotionally, let's talk about academically. So when I was just in, um, and I stayed in London for a bit and I toured Cambridge and Oxford. Wow. That's what I got to say. Wow to those. Um, the St. Andrews, um, little coastal community. Like, there's so many great little spots. What about majors? What about if a student wants to go be a doctor in the U.S. or a lawyer or an engineer, whatever that is? That— can they go to Europe and get the degree and then come back? What does that look like?

That is a great question. There are many degrees where we— I'm actually doing a conference with college counselors, um, January, and this is one of the topics is which subjects should you encourage your students to study in the UK, which programs should you not encourage your students to study in the UK. So let's talk about professional degrees. Law, medicine, all those. Medicine, you can— as soon as you're a high school student, you can go directly into a medical program, and that's a 5-year program, which is shorter than what you would have in the U.S. Um, are super competitive. Many would say probably like 85% of the programs in the UK, they only allow up to 15 to 25 international students per year. And when we say international students, we're talking about not the US, the US, internationally. So you are competing against all of these other really top, top international students who have experience in medicine, who have the academics and so forth. So it's very important if you want to go down that road to be very strategic. Um, but there are some universities are rare, a handful that have like spots internationally and so forth. Um, the things, if you want to go down that path, um, one of the things I would recommend is looking at the cost. Even though it is a 5-year program, does it still financially make sense to stay in the U.S. compared to studying in the UK? And 2, how does it transfer back to your state? So every state has different and so forth. Those are the two things to make sure and look out for. Engineering definitely is a great option. It just depends on the type of engineering and what you want to do back in the US and just checking with the state and the process of that. But most cases, not a problem. Law. I love talking about law, and here's why. The LLB, which is a bachelor's degree in law, is basically equivalent to the JD in the US. So if you have a student who absolutely knows they want to study law, I highly recommend studying in the UK. The other reason is because they practice common law, which is what we practice here in the US. So think of it this way: you do an LLB 3 years into the, you know, for the program, and then coming to the US to do your JD. Now, you in New York, Texas, and California, if you have an LLB and you want to just immediately start practicing, you can, um, take the exam. Of course, we all know how intensive that is. No big deal, just take the JD. Obviously, we know how intensive that is, so I recommend doing the LLB and then coming to do your JD. You already have a head start compared to probably most people in the JD program. So that might be a great pathway for a student that many people do not know or are, are unaware of. Those, those programs, it just depends. And it depends on the students, depends on the state, what you want to do. So just do a bit of research on that. But is it possible? Absolutely.

I think it's so important. Some people are like, it's just not possible, right? They throw up their hands, they're frustrated. And we did look at it for my son because we are a, uh, an traveling family. And he's like, yeah, that's fantastic, mom. And knowing that he wanted to be an orthopedic surgeon in California, the chances of him making the transition back into California Medicine was not, not high enough odds for us. So parents, that what we're both trying to say is it's knowing the research, knowing the reality, and it's so challenging because it's state by state and it's school by school. And so working with a professional is really, really when it comes to this. Let's talk about majors such as I don't know, um, international, or, um, say you want to be an ambassador or something that is truly— your child has this drive to do something that's bigger than the US. What does that look like, Jackie?

Yeah, that's, you know, that we encourage college counselors to say, hey, look, encourage your students to apply to these programs internationally. I mean, you apply to any programs, but those are the ones that are can stand out and make a student's resume pop. And that's what you want for your child, right? Like, that's what, you know, see it. Parents are like, I need my student to go to this school. Well, why don't you— if they're in international business, why not to have the same ranking university but internationally? That is just as high profile as, you know, states. But again, giving your student or your child that advantage of, you know, program internationally, it shows employers that the student is adaptable, capable, wants to expand themselves, and is serious about their career and what they want to study, um, and they want to do. And, you know, um, so if you do have, you know, a child, can, you know, that profile, definitely look in the UK. There are so many wonderful options, and even internationally too. Yeah, options.

Love that. So what exactly do you do? You, you get a lot of great information, but if I'm a parent, I'm thinking, okay, so she's gonna give me a quiz and she's been very kind and knowledgeable to share with me on this podcast, but I'm a little confused exactly what do you do, Jackie?

Yeah, great question, Shellee. I wear a lot of hats. So business. The UK Study Expert not only supports students and parents, but also college counselors, as I mentioned earlier with our conference, but also universities. So we— I think of the company as the bridge to help all parties come together and find the best fit for, for the students ultimately, um, at the end of the day. So, um, I work with universities, I work with college counselors, I work with families. And so if you are a family and you are looking to, um, you additional support, I do work with students one-to-one, families one-to-one, and help them throughout the whole process all the way up until they get to the UK to study. Um, the working with me is because I have those university contacts directly. So if there's any issues that you have, maybe admissions did not receive your documents even though you submitted your documents, or the visa, you can't get a hold of anyone from the school. I can find someone. Yeah. It's true. Oh, it happens. And during the summer everyone's on vacation holiday.

Yeah.

Yeah. So it's a reality. So what I do is I have a Rolodex of people I can email, text. Um, so that's the benefit of working with me is I am that advocate for the student, but I also, if they have, you know, challenges or anything, a weird academic profile that they're like, how do I please translate to the UK? I'm your person. I can definitely guide and help, help you with that. But do utilize the website. There's so many free resources that we provide as well. So if you can't, you know, if you have a good sense, do you utilize the website? Again, there's so many wonderful resources that we have available and universities that you can search and learn more about.

One more question. They're just coming, so I'm going to go with it. How is the application process different in the US versus the UK? In other words, in the US, what are they looking for versus in the UK, what are they looking for? I don't think families realize how unique those two are.

Such a great question, and you're so right, Shellee Howard. It is so very vastly different. So let me just kind of general overview of what the application looks like. So you can— it's called UCAS. That's the application compared to Common App. UCAS, you can only apply up to 5 UK universities and that's it. So when I'm working with a student, we have to be very strategic. About what type of program you're applying to, the university, and so forth. So you have the best possible chance of acceptance. What the fees— I forget how much. Shellee, you can help me with this. This is how I'm a little disconnected. I'm not gonna lie. I'm a little disconnected with the US system. There's plenty of reasons why. So the UK system, if you apply 2 universities, 1 university, 5, it is £35, period. That's it. That is the application fee. Um, Shellee, how much is— how many— how much?

Say on the low end, it would be $75 an application. On the high end, it'd be $300 an application.

Yeah, so equivalent to like what? That's it. So definitely much more affordable just to see what your chances are, right? Um, and looking at what the university is looking for in a student. As you know, with many, you know, for U.S. universities, U.S. universities are more about a well-rounded student, even though there really is no guideline, or many times there isn't like a major requirement. It's more about, well, you know, consideration leadership skills and volunteer experience and, and all these different, different ways of assessing a student. The UK is very black and white. These are minimum entry requirements, you're accepted or not. So if— beauty of it, a lot of times their entry requirements on their webpage, what they've now become is test flexible. So there's a lot of variations that a student can look at and be like, oh, I'm confused, like where do I fit in this box?, but are generally black and white. This, this is minimum. They do not look at volunteer experience work unless it is somewhat related to the program that you're applying to. So if you're doing international relations and you're part of like the U program, that's great, but that's not going to really move the needle if, if I'm, you know, with having your application accepted or not. Now on Cambridge, that's a different story. They, you know, important to have the those what we call supercurricular activities where they relate to the program that you want to study, those extracurricular activities that are highlighting you in that program, in that subject, in a certain way. Um, but the universities, it's not a big deal. It's really about your academics and the level of academics that you're in. So AP exams are crème de la crème. If you can get into those AP exams, especially in subjects that you want to study at university, that is your golden ticket, guys. It's not specifically GPA. I know everyone's like, GPA, GPA, important, but those AP exams or dual enrollment classes are going to be so so, so improve your application. And, um, so for example, if your school does not offer AP exams, um, I— many universities that do accept students from schools who do not offer AP exams, they have a certain way of assessing the student. But most, uh, universities, they're still trying to figure that out and still trying to see how they can evaluate a student without those AP exams, um, that are high tier. We're talking like top, you know, there's so many universities that will accept, you know, looking at a range of universities and you're just looking for the best fit for your child. There are many opportunities out there, so don't be discouraged by this conversation. Um, so again, being strategic and just finding the right pathway. But I do want to say that there is a pathway for every type of student. So please, again, that's another thing. Do not get discouraged if you think, oh, I don't have AP exams. Don't worry. There's ways we can get around it, and there's ways we can find a way to make sure that we find you the right fit university, the right fit program, and so forth.

Okay, parents, you're just smiling and thinking, wow, didn't know this was an opportunity. Jackie, if parents were, you know, to learn more, how might they find you?

Um, they can find me on the UK Study Expert website. We do have a student and parent page. If they want to inquire, they can fill our inquiry form, or they can email me at Jackie, J-A-C-K-I-E, at theukstudyexpert.com.

Outstanding, Jackie. Thank you so much. Parents, until next time, we are here to support your family. So you can have a stress-free degree. Thank you, Jackie.

Thanks, Shellee Howard.