When should you start planning for college without stressing your teen out!

That is, uh, that's amazing. Shellee, welcome to the podcast.

Oh, thank you so much for having me.

Oh my gosh, it's my pleasure. I'm, I'm secretly, not so secretly, as we were preparing for this episode, curious about how you do all of this. But let's back up a little bit before we get into college admissions and debt-free, which are, uh, kind of like a little bit of an oxymoron on how we feel, a little bipolar maybe feeling on this, of getting into college that stressful and, but yet exciting. And debt-free sounds exciting, but also sounds a little bit stressful. So I know you're going to break it down for us, but talk about, you have kids who have walked this path. How did you get into this line of work?

Yeah, that, it really came to me like my other 7 careers have. I've been very blessed. Um, I am an entrepreneur at heart and the problem was my firstborn, he came home in 8th grade and he says, Mom, I know exactly what I want to do after high school, and can you help me? And I said, absolutely, right? That's what moms do. And he says, well, I want to be a brain surgeon. I want to go to one of those Ivy-ish schools. And I'm thinking, wow, that's amazing. You know, I changed my major 5 times, right? And he's like, I know, Mom, I don't want to do that. And so he figured it out that he didn't want my path and, uh, he wanted to walk his own path. Well, the problem was this was 18 years ago. There wasn't the access that we have now to so many resources, and there weren't independent college consultants that I could find. And so I did what a good mom would do, and I spent about 30 hours a week on top of my full-time career figuring it out. I went back to school and I got my master's degree and then I became a certified independent consultant and he actually did what I recommended. So I always have to say it has to be part of the process. He followed exactly what the plan was and he had 7 full-ride offers, got a full ride to USC, which is right down the road from us. And I was like, okay, I'll learn the fight song, I'll buy the sweatshirt. I'm so excited. I was just thrilled he was going to stay close to home. And then Harvard came in the mail in this beautiful envelope. And I remember my son said, "Mom, I think it's a joke. I think my friends are messing with me." He really didn't think that he had a shot. And so he made me call Harvard and I did. And they sent us 2 tickets to come and visit. And as we were walking along the Charles River, He looked at me and he goes, Mom, this is where I belong. And I just remember like half my heart was broken and half my heart was elated. Like it was a really weird moment for me, but I put myself aside and I said, whatever you think, I'm here to support you. So he was the reason that I even started down this path.

Oh my gosh, what a beautiful story. Probably one of my favorite parts is you said he did what you had suggested.

Yes, as a teenager. Yes. And you know, sometimes I hear that's the firstborn, like they're a little bit more compliant. Because I have 3 others, I know that that's not always the case. And I hired somebody to tell my other children what I would have told them myself, but they didn't think I knew anything. So I do know the difference for sure. I've helped thousands of other people's teenagers since then, and it kills the parents when I say something and the parents are like, I have said that exact same thing so many times. So parents, if you're listening, you're like, yes, that's exactly what I would have said. It just, you know, it's one of those things as mom, we don't always get the credit.

That is the truth. Amen to that. I think everybody echoes a little sigh of relief knowing that they're not alone, uh, that their kids listen better to other people at times than they do our own, our own parents. So if, if I'm thinking about the journey to college, this happened in 8th grade where he came back and said, this is what I know I want to do. How early do folks need to start thinking about college or preparing for college? What, what sorts of preparation work needs to happen at that time.

So it's important to think if you have multiple kids, even one, we start to take our children to museums, we take them to science, you know, opportunities, but we, we miss the opportunity to walk on a college campus and give them the G-rated version of what this opportunity looks like and, and make it something that is not scary, that is not a lot of work, that is not overwhelming. Um, so I always made it part of our life, and when we would go to a different state, we would visit their state college. Well, we were visiting family back in Boston, and my son was in 5th grade, and I said, we're gonna go check out Harvard. And he's like, oh, I heard something like they have like Harry Potter's like something there. Yeah, that sounds great. So he had no idea what Harvard meant. And I do remember walking him into the food commons and it looked like Hogwarts, like literally the stained glass. He was like, whoa. And that's when I knew he was ready to start having this conversation. So to answer your question, Lacey, It really is the child because every single one of my kids were ready at a different time. So we started with him having conversations about what is he good at, what does he really enjoy, what does he not enjoy, and we started to help him break down those gifts and talents that he is— was born with. We weren't trying to make him into a Harvard kid. We were truly trying to help him understand where is his place in this world after high school. And so it was a great opportunity. And so to answer your question, in general, we start students in middle school. So around 7th and 8th grade, we start having these conversations to helping the students understand community service, but not just showing up and checking a box. I'll break that down real brief. So parents, we have— not all, but many of us have a desire to serve our community. We do what we like. When we bring our teenager along and they are disconnected from our like, they think community service is painful. It's awful. I did this to my firstborn because I loved community service. And the kind I liked, he didn't like. And so I fought with him all the way through high school. That was the one area he put up his biggest fight because he didn't enjoy what I was asking him to do. And I won't say what it is because you'll think I'm a horrible parent. Um, so when he was a senior, I said, listen, you have an incredible resume. You've done amazing things— your GPA, test score, community service. Is a problem. You look like you're an entitled young man who only cares about yourself. He goes, I'm busy. And I'm like, I get it. So I said, listen, if your dream is still to go to college, we need to help you articulate who you are, what matters, and who you want to help in this world. That's community service. And so off we went to Kenya, Africa for 2 weeks. And he gave me 2 weeks to do whatever it is that I thought would be helpful. Because he wanted to be a doctor, I wanted to see, did he want it for the DR? Or did he want it because he wanted to serve his community for the rest of his life? Long story short, he's now an orthopedic surgeon serving his community for the rest of his life. So, It really depends on the maturity of the child. I have 7th graders, 2 of them in my program, way more mature than 2 seniors in my program. So can I— a lot of firstborns, they jump at this opportunity, where a lot of the younger ones, they're like, eh, home is pretty nice, they cook for me, they clean for me, like I'm, I'm not real anxious to leave very quick. Do you understand what I'm saying, Lacey?

Oh, I get it. That makes sense. All children are different, that's for sure.

Yeah, and so it really depends on your child, but I wouldn't start talking about the name of a college and, you know, their major and what they want to do for the rest of their life too soon because that has backfired huge in many of the clients that I receive. Their parents think that they're lazy and they're procrastinators. The problem is they're terrified. They don't want to let their parents down. They don't know the rules of the game, right? When they play a sport, we teach them the rules of the game. Here's the bat, here's the ball, here's the glove, right? We don't teach them the rules of how to prepare for college and how to prepare for life. And financial literacy is a big part of that. And they, all they hear is college is expensive and we're not going into debt. And they're like, well, I, that sounds awful. I, I don't want to do that. And that really stops them from leaning in instead of talking about They don't have to take the same classes in college. They can wake up late if they're, you know, a late sleeper. They can take night classes. Like, there's so many great things, but studying what they want to study, learning how to adult, and making connections for the rest of their life— those are things to talk about our kids.

Yeah, I was just making notes as you were talking. You said so many powerful things. I love that you mentioned talking about the positives of college because it's easy for us to talk about, hey, got to get good grades because we got to get a scholarship and, you know, it costs a lot of money to get there and, you know, you don't want to mess around there because it costs a lot of money. And to emphasize the focus on money versus, you know, I've got a kid, I've got a kiddo that loves sleep and his own privacy, and he would prefer to do his own thing most of the time. And that's a huge selling benefit of college that can sometimes get overlooked. You're right, the sleeping in aspect, making it fun, making it, you know, something that is something to look forward to and not just a series of more years of schooling.

Absolutely, because they don't know the difference. School is school unless they can see it, touch it, smell it. A lot of times I will just take kids on, on campus tours where we download the app onto our cell phone, we put in our earbuds, we walk around the campus. You don't even have to check in. You sit at the commons and you eat right next to all of these college students who have a huge vibe going on. They're super, super high energy. And you can watch your child just go, wow, this is not like high school, and it costs you nothing except for your time, and it's such a great bonding experience.

Okay, what is this, these apps? So they have an app that it kind of like is a self-guided tour of the campus?

Exactly, yes, any school globally, yes, so all over the world. You don't have to check in, there's no pressure. You walk, you can talk about the library, how you spent, if you went to college, how you spent many, many hours there, but you had so many great memories at the same time. So it really is just opening up their eyes to the, the excitement and the challenge and the fun that they get to be part of. I always tell students, I said, the first time my son called me from Harvard, I was nervous. I was like, oh my gosh, is he okay? It was one weekend. He goes, Mom, I have a huge problem. I'm like, oh great, I'm so far away. What's wrong? He goes, you never told me that red socks and white shirts equal pink. And I'm like, such a simple thing, but I really never spent the time to talk about the little parts of life.

Yeah, which is a good metaphor for not spending time talking about the little parts of college too. I absolutely love the idea of taking them on college campus visits when you're traveling, just for family vacations. What a brilliant idea to introduce them even at a super young age, in early elementary school, to see the hype and the fun of it. I really love that idea. And I think about, you know, in Nebraska we have the Cornhuskers, um, which is in Lincoln, Nebraska. And when we go to Husker games, we usually walk the campus. My husband went to architecture school there, so we always go see where he and, um, yet there's more now that you talk about it that they are absorbing that sets the impression for what college could be like when we're there. And so to open their eyes when we go to Florida or we go to California to see what different campuses look like, and, uh, that's a beautiful idea. I love that. That's great.

I, I tell parents, you know, to start gently is like anything else. You would not throw them into a sport and not tell them to expect. For some reason with college, it's become this stressful endeavor. And I will tell you, all 4 of my kids, my 4th is graduating next week from college. All 4 of them have grown into these incredible adults. Lacey, you were asking me, am I sad I'm an empty nester? I'm the parent who's like, fly. Spread your wings, go get it, and, you know, come home for Thanksgiving and we'll celebrate you. So I don't feel that, that pain, but it could be because I'm with everybody else's teenagers. So that might be part of it.

I don't know. I think it sounds like a very healthy relationship with the child because it's bittersweet to a sense, right? We, we are sad that this maybe phase of life is over, but you're so excited and overjoyed for them. To grow into the human that you've been helping to form throughout all of these years.

And watching them, those things, you know, when they were younger and they couldn't speak in public, and now they go to a stranger and shake their hand, like those proud moments, I think are amazing for moms. And I was one of the only— I was the only parent when I dropped off my son at Harvard who wasn't crying, literally the only parent. In the room. And I remember my son looking at me and he goes, Mom, why aren't you crying? I said, I would be crying if you were at home on my couch doing drugs and I couldn't help you. That would bring me tears and sadness. I go, you have far surpassed any dream that I could have ever wanted for you. I go, I celebrate you. And then I left and I cried all the way to the airport.

Oh my gosh, that's so true. That is a beautiful perspective. Oh my gosh, I was thinking back to your comment about volunteering as well and making sure they're volunteering in places and ways that resonate with them. I was guilty of that. I was telling my son who's 15, I'm like, hey, we should, you know, we should volunteer. We have a little bit of extra time. Maybe you could volunteer, like, let's go towards children at school, or I'm sorry, children at school, children at church. We could volunteer in the baby room. You could kind of teach like a Vacation Bible School class. Because I noticed a draw of him to kind of be a leader and that kids looked up to him. And he's like, that sounds terrible, Mom, I don't really want to do that. Naturally then I'm like, let's go like just see what volunteer opportunities there are and I'll go with you and I'll pick something. And he ended up gravitating towards kind of like a tech, like media. So he helps take photos and that's his— it feeds his heart, but also he's volunteering as well. So it's an over— I think it's overlooked the community service aspect. When we first start thinking of college, we think cha-ching, cha-ching, money, expenses. There are certain elements that have to be hit and met in order to get some of these college scholarships. So community service must, must be one. I haven't come walk through this threshold yet. So what are other areas moms should be thinking about in college prep readiness?

So it really starts in 8th grade. So I'm gonna kind of take you back for, for when this process should start, because the first classes that your student takes in high school will set the stage for their 4 years. If they get put in remedial classes, it is very difficult to be bumped into the AP, IB, dual enrollment area. Not that every student needs to be there, but if yours does, be mindful because If you think, I just want to ease them in gently, that will set the stage that they will stay in that area. So, be very careful. The other thing is many, many people don't realize that every class matters. At some schools, they have what's called A through G requirements, and that means they have to do a certain number of English, history, math, science. It's not up to the student what they want to do, if they want to go to certain colleges. So, I like to start there, and then from that point, you want to be thinking, how do I help my child excel in their gifts and minimize the areas that are not their gifts? In other words, they don't need to be in 15 AP classes. They might need to be in 1 or 2 to keep their challenge so they don't get bored, and then minimize the things that they really struggle with. So that's number one, because their GPA is the most important factor of all. But it's not just a GPA anymore. The second piece is a test score. Testing is not optional if you want scholarships. I don't care what you've read, what you've heard, if a school is optional, it is not if you want money. We helped 29 seniors last year get $10.2 million in scholarships. Every one of them had a test score. So for your student, they're going to say, oh, I don't need to test prep, mom, because nobody wants to, because School A, B, or C, they don't require it. But what they're not thinking about is scholarships because that is not in their radar. They're not, they're not thinking that way. So just be mindful that GPA and the test score are the two minimums that your child needs to get in and to get money. The third is passion with a purpose. So we touched on community service. This is so much more what colleges want because the third most important thing is they want to know who the student is and what matters to them. So simple, right? Everybody is trying to find this, this magic pill to get them in, and all colleges want to know is, are they going to be a good fit here? Are they going to excel when they get here? Are they going to graduate in 4 years with the diploma on their wall and tell everybody else they need to go there? College is a business, right? So passion with a purpose is where a student finds their passion, their passion. Sorry, parents, not your passion. This is where we all get a little triggered. And it may not be something we enjoy. Just heads up, because I had a few of those. So once they find their real— that thing that gets them to jump out of bed on a Saturday morning and can't wait to do it, that's a passion. Then we want to find something they want to see changed in the world. This group of teenagers, they're advocates. They have an opinion about what they don't want. Lean into that. Instead of fighting it, maybe say, tell me more about that. What about this gets you on fire? And they're like, well, I don't know. And then you dive a little deeper. Now you take their passion. They lead other people to create the change they want to see in the world. That's passion with purpose. That's an essay. That's a wonderful interview question. That is something they will take with them into life. Again, we're not just preparing for a school, we're preparing them— college is a stepping stone to the endgame. It's not the endgame. And so many people want to just say, oh, they're good at math, send them to MIT and take a loan. That does not make sense at all. Because they like Legos when they were 3 does not mean that they're gonna be an engineer. They need more depth, more practice, and it's not in their cell phone. So passion with a purpose encourages them to be forward-facing, to find out, do they like to lead or follow? Do they wanna create change? Do they wanna just kind of stand in the background? Do they want a lab type of job where they're alone, or do they wanna be in sales and have something different every day? These things are what are— that's what's going to help a student when they get to pick their major and their career. The fourth thing is extracurriculars. What are they doing when they're not in school, right? Do they love to read? Encourage that. But what do they do with it? Do they read to others at a library? Do they help with tutoring? What is it that they love about reading other than being alone in a good book? And that's okay to an extent, right? Unless they want to be a writer or an author or something down that, down that path. Then we encourage them to think about what can you lead? Can you lead a sport? Can you lead student government? Can you lead first chair in music? Can you lead a school play? What can you lead? Colleges are not looking for students to come and sit in a seat, get an education, and leave. That would make their school awfully boring. They're looking for students to come and lead other students. Then from there, it is, um, letters of recommendation. You know those teachers they connect with? Every student has at least one or two. Very important. And then finally, they need to have essay-worthy things to talk about. The average student writes between 5 and 18 essays per college. This is where most parents go, "What? What?" So just know there is a college right now, one college, who asks for 18 different essays. I've had students change their mind about applying to that college, but on average the student will write probably close to 4 to 6 per college, so they need different things to talk about. On the Common App, there are 10 activities, honors, and awards section. On the University of California app, there are 20. So if your child is not doing anything, they're going to have a very empty application. And I don't mean for them to go run crazy, be stressed out, overwhelmed. I mean, do things to help them figure out, am I good at music? Let's try the guitar, the piano. Am I good at art? Let's try oil painting or sketching. It's really self-exploration And that leads into what colleges want to know. Who are they and what matters? Hopefully that helps. Oh, it helps a ton.

There are so many things that weren't even on my radar when we talk about, um, the extracurricular activities. I had kind of lumped that into volunteer, and so I thought maybe that those would be together, but those are in fact— I'm learning those are separate. Yes.

They're separate because two things happen when a student, um, when a child does community service, they are really figuring out what they, what they like and what they don't like. With extracurriculars, they're trying things they've never tried before, and they're seeing, am I good at it, and will I fight to be good at it, right? Even if they're not good at it, Were they tenacious to go from JV to varsity? That's an accomplishment, and colleges want to celebrate that.

Yeah, I love that. That's, that's amazing. There are so many important nuggets in this, including essays. Holy buckets, no idea. By the way, could, uh, if I were applying to colleges, could I create maybe 10 essays and use those with all colleges, or do I have to start from scratch and they're all unique? For every college application.

That— it's kind of a misconception. Most people think that you will fill out one essay and then just duplicate it. It doesn't work that way because some schools use the Common App, some use the Coalition App, some use the UC app, the state app, and the private app. So there's 5 different applications. You don't get to choose which one you want. The college chooses the one they use. So they're forcing you into a platform. If all of your schools are on the Common App, it's so much easier to repurpose, right? But I tell students that the hardest thing I, I find for students is they don't have enough to write about. So when you're younger, that's why I love starting in middle school, is we show them, here are the essay questions you're going to answer your senior year. We don't expect you to have the answer right now, but I just told you the answer, so let's go build the answer. And that gives them 3 years, 2 years, a year at least where they get to go create that experience. And then the essay is easy. It's just telling their story.

That's why I see it's so important to start young in 8th grade, middle school.

Yes.

I was thinking, oh, well, you know, if you start freshman, maybe sophomore year, you got plenty of time, but that, uh, doesn't mean it's too late. It just means there's not as much of a ramp-up time to build up to it.

And it's a maturity thing as well, right? I have to go gentle and slow over time with the youngers. And then when I get a junior or senior, you hope they're mature and they can hang on to the fire hose. Because the bottom line is they all have to do it. It's just, do you want to do it gently over time, or do you want to do it much quicker and a little more stress-induced?

Yeah, that makes sense.

There's—

because of all of the elements, and this could really be as you're applying, helping your kids to apply for a job, not helping your kids to apply for colleges, or guiding them, or reminding them, or kind of setting some, hey, here's what you do next. It could be a full-time job. How do you suggest parents kind of weigh the importance of this and the requirements that we have to fulfill with not overdoing it? So the kids like, oh my gosh, stressed out all the time. I have to get the highest GPA. I have to do all of these things. And all of a sudden they're having a breakdown because they're trying to achieve all of these things and they're struggling internally. Where does that balance come in?

And it's, it's so great you bring that up because mental illness obviously is more prevalent, or at least more talked about. I can't say more prevalent, it's more talked about. But I'll share a quick story. So this is a perfect example. My firstborn, I was very, very aware that I did not want him to be— I didn't care where he went to college, to be quite honest with you. I wanted him to be the best version of him. That was it. That was the bottom line. Wherever he landed was fine by me. And so I just raised him to raise a great young man. And it wasn't to overdo it or to push him or to overcommit him. It was helping him lean into the things that he loved and that he was good at. When he was giving his ASP president speech, he loves leadership. I was sitting next to a gentleman at his graduation, a young man, and a young man leans over to me, didn't know me, and said, "Dude, I didn't even know that kid was smart." And that is how under the radar my Harvard kid was. He wore the same Vans tennis shoes as every other teenager. And yes, they knew him because he liked leadership, but he liked leadership because he can inspire others to create change. So it wasn't stressful for him. It was leaning into his gifts and his talents. And I think we lose sight of— it's okay to encourage them to be the best version of them, as long as that's what they want. And that's what they're good at. If you're trying to push your child into leadership, and they're an introvert and like to spend time in their room, with a book, it's gonna be stressful for that child. But if that child maybe puts together, you know, a reading club or, or some kind of thing that they can find other people like themselves, what a beautiful gift is you've just taught them how to network. You've taught them how to lean into their gifts and their strengths, and they're not stressed out. They're actually enjoying life much better than being online.

Ooh, I think that, that hits home for so many. Recognizing the talents and the gifts that we naturally have. We are not— there's no person identical to us, no matter if we look the same, we have the same, you know, genetics inside of our family. We're still different humans. We're wired slightly different. We like different things. We excel in different areas. And even if you and I both love all of the same things, we might love them slightly differently, and we might show up a little bit differently each and every day. And so recognizing and celebrating evaluating the differences and what our kids enjoy is really important because that's what I'm hearing from you, the importance of tapping into those areas and just kind of dig in a little bit deeper of, okay, you love guitar, you love being around other people. What do you think about leading a group of, you know, kids who love to play guitar together, right? Maximizing what they already enjoy.

Yeah. So you're just encouraging them right, to step into their gift versus creating some stress trying to force them into something they're not. And I think that's where people lose focus. They're trying to shove them into a college, and I do it very differently. We first find out what are their core values, what are those things they deeply already believe in, and let's just align with their core values and help them to be the best young adult they can be and then put them in the path of which they want to go. And I think if you start there, there won't be the mental stress and there won't be the overwhelm. There are some people who actually don't have to study. My firstborn was one of them. He had a photographic memory. I never believed it. He never was doing homework and I'm It made me crazy. And he's like, Mom, I get all A's. And I said, are you cheating? He goes, no, Mom, I'm not cheating. People cheat off of me. And so I didn't get it that he had his own gifts. Right. And my second born fought so hard for every B+. So tenacious, so determined. And I saw the struggle it was to try to keep up. You know, and so I learned they have to walk beside each other, not behind each other. And once we take that across the board with all children and just lean into those things that were just given to that child, it's actually a much easier way to live and to enjoy the time we have with them.

I think you, you bring up a really good point as well on somebody who maybe doesn't have the 4.0+ GPA and still can get college scholarships or a portion of their college paid for? Is it something simple as maybe the GPA isn't as strong as the, the, you know, the scholarship would like to see, but they can make up for it because there's so much else and so much other, you know, qualitative pieces in their extracurricular activities and who they are, their letters of recommendation? Can you kind of offset that, or do you have to have the highest GPA in order to get you know, finance, you know, paid for.

So I mean, I've proven it with my own 4. My firstborn had a 4.6, right? And just, it really didn't seem that hard. I mean, to be honest, he just, he was gifted. That was his gift and it was not mine. So I kept fighting it going, there's no way. And he's like, but Mom, really? So, and then my second was more like me and she just had just so much desire and want and fought for it. And she got a full ride to University of Alabama. She is debt-free. She's a registered nurse. She loves what she does. And so there's two totally different kids. And then my third went to San Francisco State. He wanted to go into film and broadcasting, totally different kid. And he graduated early in 3 years because he didn't really like school. He's like, I'm out. I'd rather work hard now and I just want to be done. And then my fourth, she's like, well, he went to Harvard and she went to Alabama and he went to San Francisco State. I'm going to the Czech Republic of Prague. So I have an international business student getting a dual US and European degree. That's an example of leaning into your child and listening to what they want. My fourth did not buy into all of the rules that were placed on her. She wanted to be more European, more just, let's travel, let's go, let's explore. And I honored that. And she's getting a degree and she's debt-free as well. So all students have that opportunity. It's all about picking the right college. For the child. There's so much money available and nobody talks about the positives. But I'm here to tell you, my kids are no different than your kids, and they all have graduated, and I didn't pay a dime. Let's just be clear, it's not on mommy's dime. They all earned it their own way.

That's amazing. Encouraging as well to all of us listening who have teenagers who are getting ready to go through this process. This is such valuable information, Shellee Howard. One of the questions that come to my mind as you were talking, you mentioned, you know, does a child— as colleges are looking to the teenager or a potential candidate for that school, are they a leader? Do they prefer to follow? Is there one that gets scholarships more than the other, or is there money for different types of people? Or is it usually like this Type A that we're looking for, and they usually get the, you know, the financial resources?

It's really about the match. So think of it like this: put your business hat on. If you're a business owner and I come to you and I, I've never had a job and I have no resume, but I really want to come and work for you, you may love me and what I stand for, but you're going to give me minimum wage until I prove myself. If I come to you and I have this beautiful resume of all this It's not just a GPA. It could be community service. It could be anything. But the resume says, wow, you are going to make my life so much better. I'm going to give you some extra money for that. Do you see what I'm talking about? It's life and how hard we work in what we do. Now, there are some schools, and to be true, You wouldn't want a child who has a 3.0 going to Yale. They would be miserable. They would be fighting for every A, and it would be so overwhelming, and they would not be with their people. They would always feel less than because these kids are the best of the best. So why would you want your child in one of those schools? That's the, the point we have to get clear on as a parent. It's not a trophy or a label we get to wear. It's where is that child going to find their best academic fit, their best social fit, and then the financial fit is also the, the icing on the cake. So it's all about picking the right colleges for the right student and then giving them the right resume. So to simply ask your question— answer your question, sorry about that, I want to give it context. Is any student. I mean, there's a scholarship right now for $10,000 if you're a vegan. Okay, I could be a vegan for $10,000. You bet, right? So there's, there's so many scholarships. It's not just a GPA. They want to honor that child and what they stand for. And there's a scholarship for that, I promise you.

I'm going to ask, what is the most surprising requirement or request on a college application that you've seen?

Oh, require— I would say where they— a college would— I think the hardest question for a student I think I'll approach it this way, is when they ask a student, why do you want to come to our school? It sounds so simple on one side, but what students do is, oh, I want to go to Stanford. It's so beautiful. It's with all the green trees and it's so well known. And then, okay, they already know all of that. And so the problem is, is they want to know, why do you think you would be a good fit at our school and be successful. They already know all the others. So I would say that is the hardest question for a student. But the most difficult, I would say, is when they get into, tell me about a time you did something not about yourself, because they're like, whoa, what do you mean? I'm a teenager. And so I've read some really interesting responses to that question. And the, the, the last thing I'll leave you with, parents, is I have read multiple applications that were in text format. And you're thinking, where have I missed the boat? What have I done wrong? And it's so heartbreaking. And now with AI, we are in a, a new generation because colleges can tell if your child has used AI. And so just this last application season, we had 25 students who used AI in their application. And if we didn't catch it and let the parents know, it would have been an automatic no. All the hard work, all the late nights. And the students, of course, said, well, I just took the word count down. I just needed help taking the word count down. That's still using AI. And so parents, please do not write their essays for them because we used to do period double space. Now they use period single space. Just a heads up. So there's all these things that you need to be aware of. Just let your child be. They're amazing on their own, and it tells them you believe in them.

I agree. And if we do it for them, it sets them potentially up for failure to live up to what we have put out there as a representation of them. And so when they show up as their authentic self and that's displayed in their essay writing, that's what we want, is we want them to be reflected as well. Such great advice and insight. I feel like we could talk forever. If, Shellee, if folks are listening to this, some working moms are listening to this and they want more of you or more information or even a next step, where would you guide them so they can find more?

So if you're having a tough time helping your child figure out what they want to do, their gifts, their talents, I would start with, um, our sister company. It's called seerfuturenow.com, and that will help you. Um, it's a, it's a guided platform that will help them figure out what major, what career. I have no idea who I am. Like, that's just for life. It could be a job, a career, it could be whatever. That's step one. If you have a child who's like, I know exactly what I want to do, um, we start students as young as 7th grade and we take them all the way through the process, including helping you with your financials. So, uh, the best place to, uh, get a free 30 minutes with me would be college-ready-plan.info, and it's just for your listeners. So college-ready-plan.info will give you 30 minutes to see if your child is college ready I also have two bestselling books on Amazon, so feel free to look me up. And if you have a school or if you have an organization that wants me to come and speak, I do it at no cost. It is my service to my community. So please reach out. I'm happy to help.

Oh my gosh, that's amazing. What a gift that is to the general public to have you come share your knowledge with them at no cost. These, uh, I'll put these links as well inside of the show notes and episode description. Description so that moms listening to this right now can go inside of that podcast episode and click on those links to find your books, to find the website links as well. And thank you for the complimentary 30-minute link as well so that they can reach out and ask questions that they have. And I know I will be clicking on that link as well. For everybody listening today, thank you for tuning in. I know you could have chosen anywhere else to be you chose today. These past, what, 30, 40 minutes? We did it in a short amount of time and shared a ton of information. You chose to share it with us. So on behalf of Shellee Howard and I, thank you for joining