Double Middle Fingers and a Homecoming

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From Others Over Self, it's Hardcore and At Ease. This show is about people who are keeping their edge without going over the edge. I'm host Shelly Rood. Today's guest came home from Afghanistan, was told no repeatedly by corporate America, America, so he gave it double middle fingers. Adam Castillo, he's a United States Marine who took that rejection overseas. He built a security company, employed thousands, and he spent 12 years becoming one of the most unlikely American leaders in one of the most dangerous places on Earth. He is back in the U.S., older, a little wiser, and on a mission to give his own people in California what corporate America never gave to him. This is Hardcore and At Ease. Well, hey friend, it's a beautiful day over here in Detroit, Michigan. It is spring, it's a little bit chilly, we have a freeze watch this evening, but nonetheless I got some echinacea planted and I'm hoping that they hold out over tonight's freeze. I'll let you know how that goes next week. So today's episode picks up right where episode 46 of Hardcore Natties left off. Episode 46 was about what happens when you're both the executor and the strategist, when tactical and strategy meet, but the people around are only able to see the execution. When you do the work and you design how the work gets done, something often gets discounted because you're the one that's holding the standard. You're the one that's carrying the cognitive weight of figuring out how to do it, oftentimes in conditions that weren't even built for you. Now, with your output, that's noticed and it tends to be applauded, but the thinking, the brain work, the human creativity that went behind it disappears. And what happens is the system reads your performance as confirmation that everything is fine, but it's not fine. It's a dumpster fire. You're just really, really good at not showing it, and that's what your boss expects. Today we're going one layer deeper because there's a version of this that's harder to name and it's even harder to shake. The most disorienting version of this is not when the system ignores you, but when the system tells you that it was designed for you and it hands you something that was built clearly for someone else. It wasn't built around your picture of you or actuality. Now I see this happening in the women veteran care space constantly. We're talking about well-resourced, well-intentioned people that design a program with a veteran in mind. But you know what? That's not usually who's standing in front of them. The woman in the room is expected to be grateful anyway. Thanks but no thanks. Now, my mother knows this feeling. Papa, my grandfather, he's a Detroit businessman. Papa ran a construction company. He worked inside wealthy homes, and he considered himself something of a designer. One Christmas, he gave my mother two statues. This was way before Shelly was born. She was a young wife that wanted to fit into the family. Now, these two statues were giant chickens. That's right, 2-foot tall, brightly colored, really hefty price tag. I mean, these were 2-foot tall designer chickens. Now, they probably would have looked spectacular in a Spanish-style home like over in Grosse Pointe, but for my mother, who came from very humble beginnings and she had her own quiet sense of beauty, well, these were really something else. What can she do? She said thank you with wide eyes, and those chickens lived on either side of her fireplace for years. Something that was never meant for her. And when you do that long enough, like my mother, well, it stops becoming a gift. Whatever's being handed to you can become a burden, or it can even become an insult dressed up in wrapping paper. Adam Castillo's giant chickens looked like a promise. Corporate America hung the banners. They had beautiful slogans on them like "Hiring Heroes" and "We Serve You Now." But then you've got this Marine combat veteran. He's a man who managed logistics in Afghanistan at the higher levels, and he can't even get through the door for an interview as a warehouse supervisor. Now, I know that cuts deep for a lot of my listeners today because we're still experiencing this dichotomy. They say they want to hire military veterans, and we show up at the door and they don't hire us. So we can stay in resentment about this. We can plant our flag in the injustice of the situation. We can be like Adam and throw up every middle finger that we've got, and we can stay there forever. That's one option. Or, my ambitious friend, you can channel it. Eventually, that's what Adam learned to do. You can let that anger pressurize into something that moves and use it as fuel for the kind of building that nobody can take away from you. That is Adam's option. He took it overseas. He built a company in a conflict zone, spent 12 years learning a country that most Americans can't even find on a map—Myanmar—and then he turned around at 40 and decided that it was time to stop being in exile and start being someone with real gifts to bring home. Gifts that fit his community, ones that were built for the people who raised him. And that's where we're going today, so let's get into it.

I did over 2 years as president of the American Chamber of Commerce, basically the de facto leader of the American business community. And honestly, I just didn't want that moment we had where we were doing all these great things, achieving so much, and really kind of— I felt like this movement of belief we created in a place that it's so absent of belief and hope, and I didn't want that to go away. So I wanted to chronicalize it. And this book was a way of doing that. Now, How I got to that point was I got inspired by a book by Ronald Reagan called Speaking My Mind, which I picked up in the Reagan Library in 2024. And really, that was a basically chronicle of his speeches that he felt best basically represented him as a person, not just as a president. And basically how the book went is that he would do an intro of the speeches, tell some jokes, very Reagan-esque, and then the transcript will go right after that. So I basically thought, what if I did that for my book? And from my speeches. And it started off as that, but then it essentially evolved into something entirely else because when I was thinking about my speeches, most people don't know what an AmCham or an American Chamber is. So I really had to tell what that was in kind of a prologue, but also what is this country and how did I get there? This is not a place where most Americans know. And it's also a place where people are wondering, how did you end up there after basically leaving leaving the Marine Corps and getting home from Afghanistan. So that's how essentially the book's structured from this almost theatrical-like structure where, okay, there's 12 speeches and 12 chapters. But before that, there's a prologue. And after that, there's an epilogue. And in between that, there's interlude chapters. And really, that's my way of taking the reader out of the speeches. Okay, and let's have this little visit to the concession stand. But actually, you're just refreshing your mind on something else. It is. And that's how the book came.

It's fabulous to be able to go through and be entertained every step of the way. And you do such a great job of putting somebody in the moment so that we feel like we're right there with you as that speech is being heard. There's such a depth to you, Adam, that I am so, so deeply reverent about, because I feel like so much of that American dream and taking serious some of the freedoms that we have in America, you know, as compared to other countries. We just don't even think about it, you know, or we're so comfortable with our Candy Crush on our phones and our TVs that we're not even able to think about what life is like for so many others. Um, now you are American, you're an American veteran, you served in the United States Marines. Would you like to tell us that story about why the heck you're not living in America right now?

Yes. So I was in the Marine Corps Reserves after I came home from Afghanistan, a Long story short, I was basically this transitioning veteran around, uh, was it 2012, 2013 timeframe? That was a bad time.

Yeah, that was the Obama administration, right?

Yeah, the sequestering, the massive cuts we made to the military at that time. So there was just massive exit of veterans at that time. And although while there was a lot of corporate fanfare of veterans in terms of Hire Heroes, I felt that a lot of that was a lot of PR. And I fell into the same sort of situation a lot of veterans did where we just couldn't find jobs. Like, for instance, I was a supply officer, logistics officer in the Marine Corps. I did this in a combat environment as well in Afghanistan, and I was basically not even getting final interviews for some, you know, warehouse supervisor position. I mean, that is something I managed among maybe 50+ other things when I was in the Marine Corps. And it was just—

I want to hold that because there's veterans right now that are living that out. Yeah. What does that feel like when you know that you are highly capable, highly trained, you can do the job better than anybody that's doing it right now, and they're still not even giving you a chance?

It feels awful. It feels like you lose your purpose. It feels like you lose your entire identity. And that, unfortunately, is a very dangerous time for most veterans, especially newly minted veterans just getting out of service, because you're all of a sudden basically voided of this strength you had as a leader. And that quickly can turn into depression or anger or both. For me, it turned into anger. And unfortunately for a lot of veterans, though, it does turn into depression. And that's where we see the addiction. The one or two bad decisions to alcohol, pills, living on the street. It just becomes a chain reaction of bad events. And it all starts right then and there when you get out and you're dealing with not just initial rejection, but rejection over months, over a year, over years. And for me, I just as a person just could not let this sit in my mouth without fighting back and getting really angry. And while I would say honestly that was not healthy, that anger really helped me take the sort of risk that I took and basically moved back overseas where I had studied abroad in my fourth year of college. And that led me to this journey to Myanmar. And Myanmar is a journey in itself and its own sort of tragedy amongst tragedies. But a lot of that anger I was able to harness into building my company, taking risks, and just living off of nothing in a lot of the things that I learned in the Marine Corps. But again, you know, it was a slippery slope for me as well. I think, you know, you talk to a lot of my family members, you talk to even some of my friends that knew me at that time, there was something dark about me at that time when I was dealing with all this rejection, and it was not a happy place for me.

It's really hard, isn't it, when you're like looking at the pamphlet that's like, we love veterans, hire our heroes, you know? And I don't mean to step on any trademark toes there, but it is so hard when you are that capable individual and you're like, I need to pay my bills. Will somebody just hire me, please? And it's not happening. And that anger that you felt, it's not weird to think of an angry Marine, right? Let's just say that. But this is a whole nother level of layer. I mean, this is anger that festers and goes deep, and it's not just being angry in the checkout line. I mean, this is like days and days and months of a deep-seated resentment that builds. And your book does such a great job of capturing your resentment towards the presidential administration. Industries that are the American industries that are saying one thing, but yet, you know, you feel like they're not living up to their promises.

Exactly. And yeah, that's ultimately where I think my sense of betrayal and anger came, you know. I'm a former Democrat and I basically, you know, took a call of service because of President Obama. And he became a symbol of betrayal to me. And not just him, but the entire institutions that are around our government. And that took a long time for me to get get over that. That's one of the many reasons I never filled out a VA claim. I didn't even create a VA account until last year. Until last year, Adam. Yeah, and I just got my claim approved finally. So I'm 80% disabled now, and I got my veteran disability now. But my whole standpoint was I just couldn't let go of that feeling of betrayal and anger. And all it took was after a decade plus, you know, another fellow veteran, you know, who I met in Bangkok, us having drinks and just basically him telling me, brother, it's time to let go of this. Go get what you're owed. You know, you're owed this. And that just turned into basically an all-nighter of me signing up for a VA account. Why it took an all-nighter, I have no idea. But in this huge process, and, you know, on my book tour, while I was doing my book tour, I jumped into these, um, you know, the medical and psychological, or the physical and psychological exams you have to do for your claim. And yeah, and that's That's basically my story of my VA status. But, you know, a lot of that goes back to, listen, I was mad. I was angry, not just at our country, but at the world. And I was like, you know what? I'm not going to do this. I don't feel like doing it. You know, and that's sort of what I write in my book is I felt I had to exile myself from the country I was once willing to die for just a year ago. And that's where the story kind of begins in Myanmar.

Yeah. So let's get into Myanmar. You know, I've learned more about it now than I've ever known in my life, which is fascinating. I'm military intel, former military intel, but my, my field of studies has been Korea, South Korea, North Korea. Yeah. So this gave me an excuse to kind of deep dive into a different region with a different rich history. And I know you're the expert here, so you tell us. Myanmar used to be Burma. It— I mean, it has pagan roots. I've heard you say that there's like hundreds of cultures that are intertwined in the populace there.

Yeah, a lot of that has to do with colonial era, British Empire, and a lot of these ethnic groups got categorized as certain ethnic groups, etc. And what happened post-colonialism in 1948 is the start of this historic civil war was really an ethnic civil war. So you have ethnic versus ethnic. And really ethnic versus the main ethnic populace there. And that's called the Burma majority, right? Essentially Burmese, Burma. And that's essentially why it was changed to Myanmar is because it's a bit more representative of the entire cultural landscape in the country. But basically a coup d'état happened February 1st, 2021, which the then kind of quasi-democratically elected government was overthrown by the military. And that escalated not only the historic civil war, But what you now see as a pro-democracy insurgency overlaid against a kind of military dictatorship, a lot of the main foundation of that war still remains the ethnic resistance towards this majority. And even with the pro-democracy versus military and the ethnic sides, that's the same oppressive ethnicity that's kind of oppressed them for generations. To understand this country is to understand the most complex civil war in modern history because it's the longest civil war in modern history.

It is. It's absolutely Fascinating. And exactly, when you're, you're talking about a civil war, so just one country fighting itself for generations. And I do want to hear a little bit more about like, who are the main players today? Because it sounds like there's, there's rebels, right? There's a rebel base, but it's not necessarily a full alignment of rebels. It's kind of all these different pockets. Or walk me through so I can understand this better.

Yeah, so obviously the military is the main actor. They're, um, historically called the Tāmadā, They are armed to the teeth by the Chinese, essentially, in China, although Russia has now basically become a very huge arms dealer of them post-2021 coup d'état. Now, how the landscape works essentially is there's major ethnic armed groups that have basically been fighting for decades and a generation against the military. They have their own kind of strongholds and territories, a bit small but still very capable. Some are more capable than others. Some have been supported by also Beijing. From essentially birth to development and to now being a very capable armed group. Now, most have engaged the military since the civil war escalated after 2021's coup d'état. And so that's where you have this very complex environment of every ethnic group has an agenda, every ethnic group has their own sort of claim to not just independence, but also sovereignty. And ultimately, that's basically what they say on the surface. Now, some groups have made backroom deals. Obviously, there's a few, a handful currently in this past couple years that have made some in China with the military. Um, but really what we're talking about is some groups that literally think that their territory should be its own nation, and the populace, and in turn the fighters that fight for them, are willing to die for that. So So it's not just about them versus the military. And this is the common misconception for people even that, that even have heard of the Civil War. It's about them also versus other ethnic groups or even pro-democracy groups that have emerged that want a pro-democracy country versus the military. But even then, there's competing agendas. I always put it this way to people. Myanmar is a country of scores and everybody has a score to settle. Right. And the problem is, is every time one enemy is basically weakened or a certain group is fractured, they fracture into many groups, or these larger ethnic groups may splinter off because of certain circumstances, etc. Greed, wealth opportunities. But that adds another layer of complexity to an already very complex civil war. And again, I was in Afghanistan. I understand a lot of conflict environments. But Myanmar is in its own other world. And this is why much of the world, especially foreign governments, especially the United States, and even to a degree Beijing, kind of look at it. It's just like, this country is so complex. There's only so much we can do here. You know, China is deeply involved politically, now militarily, economically especially. But even then, it seems like what I see from Beijing is more or less, you know what, we care about this and this and this part of the country. The rest of it, military, that's your problem, right? And that's the complexity. And unfortunately, as beautiful as this country is, as beautiful as the people are, as much as I love them, at some point they need to get out of their own way if they're ever going to find peace. And having all these different agendas and scores to settle ultimately is always going to progress that, whether China's there, whether America's there, whether other countries are influencing externally. Unfortunately, these people will fight each other over these small agendas and egos and scores forever. Oh my gosh.

And I just want to underscore, this is from the mouth of a United States Marine. Exactly. I mean, there is a point in conflict where if you ever want to reach something beyond, right, just the win and have that layer of peace, you've got to be able to lay down arms at some point.

Precisely. And at some point it goes beyond the battlefield. It goes beyond, you know, tactics and strategy. At the end of the day, it's like, how long can you keep this going? For us in the Global War on Terror, I have my own opinions about that. But at the end of the day, this is not something we can win. We can't change the mindset of a people that don't believe that they should have our way of government or another person's way of government. Ultimately, how long do you want to keep fighting and keep losing lives? And who's going to basically be the victims of these wars? Force, right? Young men and innocents, women and children. And that's exactly what the case is. So in the book, you know, where there's probably some controversy, especially amongst, you know, the progressive activist circles in Washington, D.C., and they're in quote-unquote pro-democracy circles, is I've made calls for peace, even for groups like the pro-democracy movement, to really engage the military on some sort of ceasefire, just talk to each other. And right now there's not even that. And even with certain ethnic groups, there's not even that right now. But at some point, what I will say is you have to come to the table or else this is going to keep going on and on and on. And in 2 years, we will be at the 80th anniversary of the Civil War. 80 years this has been going on. And who has suffered? The people that are innocents, the 90-plus percent of the populace that are non-armed actors engaged in this right? So at some point it can't be about, you know, I need reparations for these airstrikes that were, you know, two decades ago, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. At some point you have to let go of these grievances so for the whole populace can move on.

Oh my gosh, there's so many layers. As soon as you said that, I thought like, oh my gosh, it's enough to even think about how to move forward collectively, but then how to try to make amends for grievances of past like that. Oh, we're never going to win. You're right. We're always going to be in the battle. So Adam, how long have you been— when did you first go to Myanmar?

So I started going there at the tail end of 2013. I was still living in Bangkok at that point, going back and forth to San Diego to finish my reserve duty. But it was around November, December 2013 where I started going. My former business partner invited me to kind of check it out, and there we started planning the security business, and I started doing like the first training class, etc., putting together the training program because I'm a Marine, right? And I was like a Marine Corps martial arts instructor. I did a lot of training for my Marines. So I always felt it always starts with training. So that was the first thing I wanted to do, right? Ultimately, I made a decision basically, I think it was my last trip back home for America before I officially moved out there. That was, you know, right before Thanksgiving. It was to finish the Marine Corps ball I had planned at SeaWorld for my last unit. And then I was done, right? And I made a decision right there. Okay, I'm going to go and give this a shot because this is an opportunity I have and I can make the most of it. I can build a company in my image of everything I ever wanted the Marine Corps to be. But no politics, none of this stuff. I do it the way I want to do it.

Who did you leave in the United States? Who did I leave? Yeah. I mean, what was here for you, if anything? You know, is there a reason to come back ever? Do you have parents, grandparents? I mean, what is your—

I mean, I had my parents, I had my immediate family. But I think they knew I was also not in a good place. I think they knew I needed to leave. And as much as it kind of scared them, I think they knew something needed to happen with me. But I felt there was really nothing left for me here. I mean, obviously my family will always be family. They will be here. But in terms of, you know, a significant other, a partner, a girlfriend, nada. You know, I didn't have anybody here at that time because at the end, I mean, when you're in that emotional state, are you really a fit person for a relationship.

Yeah, no, that's when we should not be dating. For my vets that are out there and they know that they're battling, please just do not pursue a relationship right now. It's not going to go well.

Exactly. So, you know, I took a leap of faith, and January 4th, 2014, I officially packed up my apartment in Bangkok and moved to Yangon, Myanmar. And I've been there basically ever since, um, although there's an update to that, um, we could talk about that later. But, uh, kind of now going forward Well, I'm fascinated about this.

You've spent over a decade there now, right? And you've been through some stuff over there. I mean, your book is filled with these incredible maneuvers of security where, you know, people are being airlifted out and you're trying to secure areas of the downtown. Mm-hmm. 10 years of that, Adam. I mean, do you feel like you're constantly in a battlefield or do you feel like there's Is there life there as well, a lot that lives alongside the conflict?

Well, let's set the record straight on something. Things didn't get really bad there until really the pandemic and then the coup d'état the year after the pandemic on February 1st, 2021. Before then, like 2014, 2015, especially 2014, that was probably one of the most beautiful times to be in that country. That's when there was this huge hope for the country, this opening up, this first wave of major investment by multinational corporations. And it felt at that time you could do anything. You could start a, you know, taco stand on the side of the street and build it into 20 taco stands. It had that sort of feeling to it. It was an entrepreneur's haven. But I think from my standpoint is that one of the reasons I survived there and a lot of others, especially foreign nationals, didn't survive there there is because I didn't have these major expectations. Because at the end of the day, I'm also a Marine that's a combat veteran in Afghanistan. I, at that time, I was finishing up my master's degree in basically terrorism and conflict. There's still a civil war going on here, guys, and we can't even access a third of the country. We just cannot access it commerce-wise because there's a ceasefire, but there's no peace deal. So my mindset was just like, okay, let's take this step by step instead of thinking that I was going to make $5 million overnight like some of these other guys that were coming in, you know, that were Western nationals into the country at that time. But really between 2014, 2015, it was something beautiful. However, then you started seeing the stall in terms of the investment never came, the promised investment from America never came. And a lot of that, yeah, is on kind of the administration at that time. But also, you know, the quasi-democratically elected government did nothing to help that. They had no economic agenda. Right. And there was no investors' confidence. Then the Rohingya crisis happened on the border of Bangladesh. Right. And that sunk Myanmar into this huge reputational issue. Well, then COVID hit and then the coup d'état February 1st, and then everything just went back into a black hole. The sanctions came. Every company either exited or basically went underground.

And so what was Adam's entrepreneurial journey during the good years? I know you got there, you started a security company, you built it up. I mean, it sounds like you've had thousands under your employ for years now. You've really built something incredible over there. Yeah.

I mean, obviously my current headcount is around 1,000. I'm trying to like— I've told basically my staff, like, listen, I no longer want to be the biggest manpower company in the country. Been there, done that. It's just a lot of headaches. So we take on clients we want to take on now, right? And so I don't mind if we're no longer, you know, having 1,000+ people on our basically payroll. But at the end of the day, you know, when we were at our biggest, throughout the years I've employed tens of thousands of local, national workers. And if you look at the supply chain in terms of the other companies in the communities that we've supported, You know, that's over 100,000 people that really have basically seen some value for the company I created. And yeah, that took a lot of work between 2014 to 2016. I worked every single day till I pretty much when I got up till I slept, right? I was working, right? I didn't have much of a social life. I didn't have much of a sort of community of friends or etc. People knew me as just this very serious Marine that really, if you want security and you want something that's really kind of boutique and he's going to get something done for you, you go to Adam, but you're going to have to deal with his craziness, right? Because he's, he's not professional, right?

Well, and that's part of the journey too, right? Yeah. I mean, that's absolutely part of the journey because you go from this like angry being, right, that just kind of has to puke out life and then you find purpose again and you're all in and you can afford to be all in because you don't have a wife and you don't have kids and whatever. So what is wrong with that? What's wrong with being all in for a period of time? But, but you can't stay there either, right? Like, I mean, in my world we call that going over the edge. So you go a little bit, a little bit too far over the edge.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I had a, you know, at one point in time I really thought I was going to marry a certain girl, but unfortunately that didn't work out. And And really that happened around 2016 or the end of 2016. And really, I think it took me a couple of years to get over that. And that was probably my time period between 2016 to 2018 that I was kind of in this, well, I kind of don't like this country anymore. You know, I've done all— like, I mean, I built a business, but it's just, I don't want to be here anymore. That's when I started getting, you know, can I go home? Can I do something else? Because this was not— and again, at the end of the day, at that point in time, the country wasn't growing, right? It was kind of stagnating. But then I did something else. I did a round 2 in the Marine Corps Reserves. So around 2018, I got hit up by a prior service recruiter and I signed up to basically drill out of the IMADET, which is basically where you cannot drill basically every month and 2 weeks a year, right? You just do it all overseas or somewhere else. And really, I did that out of 3MEF in Okinawa, Japan. And I was basically supporting a lot of the exercises in Korea as basically the 4 desk on the general staff. So the current commandant of the Marine Corps, he was the CG, the commanding general of 3MEF at that time. So I briefed him in the mornings because I usually was on the night shift. Right. But yeah, so that was kind of— I did that really up until COVID. Because I was supposed to do my last exercise in Korea, I think February 2020, and it got canceled because of the pandemic. And then it came like, well, actually, because you were in the IRR, the Inactive Ready Reserve, you actually still have time in service. So you're actually becoming a major now. So now you need to go to promotion board. By the way, you haven't done all these professional military education courses, PME, for your company grade officer. And then you're going to have to do one for your field grade officer. So that's like 3+ years of online and education. And I was like, you know what, guys, I think I'm done. You know, and I basically signed my honorable discharge papers and resigned my commission November 2020. And then at that time in my life, I felt that I was going to do other things. Okay, I have my business here in Myanmar. It's a security company because the security was kind of resembling more of Thailand, Singapore, more mall cop security. We were branching out into other things like facilities, etc. I thought I was going to do other businesses at that point and go the full entrepreneur route. But then February 1st, 2021 hit, and that brought me back into this now very sort of high-end security, paramilitary type security consulting, risk assessments, intelligence. And that's what you love, right?

There's something in there that is like, oh, it's so cool. I'm—

what I would say about this is I'm good at it, but I think I'm done. If people will say like, why don't you do this in other countries? In terms of what I've been able to build, especially since the coup and since the escalation of the war, you know, we've really expanded in terms of our— basically the only thing we can't do at this point is cybersecurity, right? But everything else from a security standpoint, we can deliver for a client like right now. But I don't want to do this in another country because in Myanmar, I've been following, writing. I've written over 3.5 million words, Shelly, about the conflict, not just from a security standpoint, but the conflict, the groups, the economy behind everything, you know, the political updates. There's nobody else in the world that has done this, right? I mean, you're—

you've— what I love about you, Adam, is that you're not just an entrepreneur and you're not just a veteran. You're one of the biggest political front heads for the nation, but without being political. I mean, you're just there as a person that loves the country and understands the deep levels of conflict and political science that goes back for generations. Precisely.

And I'm not going to have that in another market. Like if I go to start a security company, like in the Middle East or something, right? This is not what I want to do. And I'm also one of these people that feel You know, understanding conflict and also the security or the impact on the security environment is a very hard thing to understand. And I don't really look— I don't want to be a carpetbagger where I'm like, oh, I'm a conflict expert, but then I'm going to go into another country where they have their own complexities, maybe not as complex as Myanmar, but it says, okay, I'm here, I'm the expert now, pay me. No, I just— I'm done with that game. Right. So it's like, okay, I will always have this company in Myanmar. I do enjoy writing sometimes, especially in my reporting, especially my weekly reporting. I still review every report, but sometimes, yeah, I do get in there from my analysts and basically like, listen, I'll write this week, right? I'm jumping in the game again. And in our year-end analysis, which is like usually 120 to 160 pages in PDF, I usually write myself as well. I actually do write them all myself. So that I still enjoy as much as I say I don't. And it's a burden, especially because it's released basically at New Year's. And so my holidays are kind of like, are a lot of writing sessions.

But absolutely, any good entrepreneur that does their end-of-year report knows exactly what you're talking about.

Exactly. But yeah, I do love it still. I still— and that's honestly, Shelly, that's where I became such a proficient writer and why writing the book wasn't this huge thing, because I already write every week, right? So writing a book book, while some people think it's a huge undertaking, the manuscript was the easy part, Shelly. That was the easy part.

Well, like you said, you've had archives of these speeches, and these speeches are absolutely incredibly written. I can tell, you know, that you've had some higher education and that you've been in front of people that are experts in their fields. And I want to kind of chat with you a little bit about just the idea of the Chamber of Commerce So I have our local Chamber of Commerce here as a client, and we do some marketing and outreach and some article creation for them, specifically on aerospace and defense. Yeah. To be a representative of the head of a Chamber of Commerce is something that— how do I say it? It takes a very certain individual to be able to do that. You have to not only know and love business and commerce, you have to be able to lead. You have to be able to stand in front of them and offer them a little bit of hope, a little bit of painting a picture of what the future might hold. Yeah. Why didn't you just sort of stay a business owner?

I think that happened around the pandemic. I actually was elected to the board, you know, I think 2 months before the pandemic officially became a pandemic. That happened in January 2020. And at that time it was a very different country. Country, right? We thought there was still a promise of a booming economy, etc., etc. I wasn't ready for the 5 and a half years I would be on that board for the tragedy after tragedy and the ocean of crisis that we would be living in. But essentially, that's what happens. And I think, unfortunately, for most of these kind of community-level organizations, Chamber of Commerce, whatever sort of nonprofits, work with communities, businesses, etc., a lot of the people that you need to lead that are going to be serving on the board. The problem is, is those board positions are not paid and you have to volunteer your time. And it's almost like an unofficial knighthood abroad. But even here, that's where the prestige comes, right? Because you're doing this out of your own goodwill, but you get recognition from the community. The problem with that is a lot of people do it just for a CV builder, especially, you know, especially those that actually don't have their own companies, right? Very rarely do you have somebody that works for a large company get into a Chamber of Commerce and really wants to take the risks and put their head above water or stick their neck out on things. And unfortunately, when you're leading a community in crisis, when you're leading a chamber in crisis in a situation like Myanmar, It takes somebody to come up and basically put their head above water and take risks. And that's what I did. For whatever you want to say about my story, even my critics back in Myanmar, at the end of the day, I took risks because I felt that's what we needed to do. That's what I felt would save a people's confidence and belief in themselves. And that was ultimately what I tried to do. The advocacy— this is what I tell people about advocacy with Chambers of Sometimes I think businesses specifically rely too much on chambers of commerce to do their advocacy for you, and they're thinking they're going to move worlds and mountains for you. That is just simply not reality. A chamber of commerce, no matter how big, no matter which country, no matter which city in the United States, because it's domestic and international, has limited resources. If you want to move mountains, you need to go hire a lobbyist in Washington, DC. Or in your state capitol and state legislature. But even then, you're not going to move the mountain. So a lot of that's understanding advocacy and government affairs, which, you know, I went— and that's kind of its own part of the story. But it is because you did.

I mean, you were just here when Trump was inaugurated. And I love what's written in your book about the hotel that you stayed in and how often, you know, trying to save money for food, right? So you go to the events and shove some food in your mouth and you go back to your room.

That was saving money. No, that was saving calories, right? Because I had to still fit in my tuxedos by the end of everything, right? Yeah. So, uh, you know, because that was like— those are a lot of balls in one night— in one week. And yeah, it's like, at the end of the day, okay, I, I, I still got to fit in my tuxedo the next day.

So, uh, but you did it for purpose. How many other people are willing to fly to another country and have those meetings with legislation and really try to push through for that deeper, higher level of change. That's what it takes to be able to move the needle like what Adam has done over in Myanmar. Do you find that there's people walking alongside of you in this path, or do you kind of feel like you, you're still cowboying it every step of the way?

So we could talk about what I did in the past. What I would say is you do find your way and you do find a core group of people that become your biggest supporters. And especially in a place like Washington, D.C., you need to find it because that place is a pit of vipers. And many people called me a great white swimming in a puddle in Myanmar. Right. Well, when you go to Washington, D.C., it's not that you're a great white. It's not that you're not a great white anymore. It's that there's other great whites there. And every turn you look, there's a snake in your face, you know, trying to get something from you. From you. But that's DC, that's the capital. It's always going to be that way, right? And so really it's about finding people that you can rely on very early. And luckily I had that, even if they didn't turn out to be great friends or great partners for me. I had enough people that I was able to get information from and basically like, okay, this is the ropes, this is how things are done in DC, and this is what you have to look out for. And during that journey, luckily I had a handful of people really kind of kind of flocked to me, basically like, you know what, Adam knows what he's doing. He has something here. But in the process of anything, especially in Washington, D.C., the more you get recognition, the more you get your name out there, the more people are going to want to tear you down, especially in D.C. In the book, I kind of outlined that with sort of this activist industrial complex that exists around the, quote unquote, Burma issue. And yeah, that took me taking a lot of hits against my reputation, against me as a person, you know. And while dealing with all of this, you know, I don't know how it affected my— I know how my business got affected because of all the time I was spending on this and not my business. But reputation-wise, who knows? I mean, I don't know how many people decided not to go through a contract with me and go to my competitor because simply, hey, we didn't want to deal with Adam's politics at time. Now fast forward to today, I'm done advocating on Myanmar, right? I've shot my shot. I've tried to save the country, but ultimately I've realized two things. Number one, you can't save a country that doesn't want to be saved. And number two is it's not for me to save, it's for the people of that country. And I hope that the example I set would really inspire them to do the same, right? And the blueprint of what I did is out there. All it takes is a little work. All it takes is a little risk. And all it takes is somebody stepping up and saying, this is where we are and this is where we need to go. It's all it takes is somebody stepping up and telling to a lawmaker in front of their face, this is why you're wrong about the country. And I know because I actually lived there and here are the facts, right?

Do you have like a mentee or is there somebody in Myanmar that is really close to you that you feel like is able to pick up the torch that it sounds like you're getting ready to lay down?

Uh, that torch has already been laid down. Like I've already, like I said, my farewell address with the chamber was at the end of May 2025. So it's coming on a year now. And ultimately, you know, the chamber needs to find its own way. It has new leadership. And ultimately, I don't want to be involved in the chamber as much as I used to or at all, because simply I need to move on with my life. Right. I gave 5 and a half years to that chamber. I've given over 12+ years to that country. At the end of the day, at this point, I have a business there and I'm an international businessman and I have interest overseas. But the days of me going out and going on the Hill and giving free briefs and updates on Myanmar and, you know, if you want to know about Myanmar with me at this point, you're going to have to pay me, you know, that's it. You know, and I want to make—

and they should, because there is life experience that you have multifaceted that is highly valuable. Yeah.

And another thing, you know, Shelly, is it's not that I've given up on Myanmar. I've just seen— I still follow and write about the conflict every day. I don't really see an end to it, and I see it going in a certain direction. And really, I think the US has kind of lost its shot, right? We had a brief opening where possibly we could really get in there and align our interests in terms of homeland security, national security with what's going on in the country. But I think that time has passed and I think China has won the game. And ultimately, I think at this point in my life, I want to focus on the people that actually are my people back here in California. And that's ultimately where I see myself in the coming years is not really advocating for Myanmar, but advocating for my own community at home. Home. And yeah, Miramar will always be a part of me. I still have my business there. I still love my people there in terms of the community I've created around my business. But the cause of Miramar is no longer mine to carry.

How does it feel to say that?

Oh, relieved. I think, you know, you know, yesterday, kind of talking about other things, but, uh, I recorded my audiobook and I have an actor doing the actual full book, but As there's 12 speech transcripts in there, I'm actually going to be doing the speeches themselves. And so yesterday I recorded those speeches. And at first I kind of walked in there like, man, I have to give this speech that I gave 3 years ago. But, you know, luckily I had a good director and so on. He really got me back into it. But I would say, like, you know, some of those speeches, especially like the Awakening speech, I really was going into it. And, you know, even the director was getting pumped up in the room. I was just like, okay.

I was getting pumped up reading through it. I was on a flight from Florida back to Detroit.

Yeah, so I like, I really enjoyed giving that speech again, even if it was just in front of a microphone in a room alone. But as I was driving back from Burbank to Hollywood where I was staying, you know, I just felt a great measure of relief. Like, it just felt like this chapter is finally closed. Like, I will never have to write about this again. I will never have to do this. But for that brief moment, I got to relive those moments, and that really meant a lot to me. But the sense of closure I have felt driving back to Hollywood from Burbank was just something I really can't describe. But it felt amazing. It felt like now I'm ready to do the next chapter of my life, or the next act, as I say in my book, right? Um, and if not, like, you know, like, just kind of end on that, you know, I gotta shoot my shot, right, Shelly? You know, for a next and if I don't get it, well, then I guess I go back and live in Asia the rest of my life, and that sounds like a good life still.

Well, how old are you now? I just told you. All right, so you're younger than me. I'm sitting at 42 over here. What do you see on the horizon for you? So you're back in the United States, you're back in California. Yeah, I think I'm back in California.

I think, you know, I'll be here more this year. I'm not going to be in DC. I think from a Washington DC standpoint, I'm pretty much— I've gone as high as I in my current state. If I come back there, it's going to be something else or in a different career. So I do see myself coming back to the US more regularly, but it's going to be home in California instead of Washington, D.C. and just visiting California. And really what I am picturing the next couple of years is I think in the past I have visited California with my home and work being in Myanmar. Miramar. I think what I will be coming— what will be the reality in the next coming year is my home will be here and my work trips will be back to Miramar. Obviously I still have to go back overseas, but I still want my base to basically be California.

How does it feel to have this 180 shift where you couldn't wait to exit and then you came back around? Because I, I kind of had a moment like that in my life too, right? Kind of, you don't run away, but you got to get out of here.

Yeah, I mean, I think how I feel is more or less, I think my time in exile is over and it's time to come home and to really figure out how I can help my people here. The people that actually are my people, the people that actually raised me, saw my first communion, saw me play under the Friday Night rights. These are the people that matter the most. And I'm not coming home empty-handed anymore. I'm coming home rebuilt and I have gifts, a lot of gifts to share them. And I honestly feel that that's my future as opposed to being abroad and having no connection, being an expatriate, being a foreign national worker. You know, that doesn't really have much appeal to me from a purpose standpoint. I do want to still have a family as well, but I don't want my family to be raised in Asia, my children. Children, right? I, I just— I've seen that lifestyle. Hey, there's nothing wrong with it for other foreign nationals, for other Westerners, Americans. You want your kids to go to international school and being part of all that, fine. I don't want that for my children. I want them to be raised in America. I want them to go to public school. I want to be part of the school system just as I did. I want them to play soccer. I want them to play public or, uh, football, you know. I want the same things that I had when, uh, when I was younger.

Is there a certain area of California that you really want to dig your heels into?

Ah, Riverside, California, where I'm from, right? So desert communities that I feel the power of this state is in the desert inland communities that are too often forgotten about by, you know, the coastal cities that think they run our state.

But ultimately, I think the desert communities are going to have something to say about that in the Yeah, well, Adam, there's a section in your book that I wanted to make sure to capture you on camera with because I do a lot of work with women, women in business, women business owners. And you intentionally have a section in here about celebrating International Women's Day and how you approached it the first time versus the second time around and the inclusion of men in these types of celebrations.

Is there something that you kind of can verbalize for us or give us an overview on just your thoughts and reasoning Yeah, I think from a sense of Women's Day and just this whole notion of inclusion and equity, where I've basically learned in terms of my own kind of involvement in promoting women's health in Myanmar, especially that was a cause that was completely personal to me. But getting back to that soon I've learned that basically if you want to basically promote a gender or race or ethnicity, it's not about putting down others to promote that minority. It's about bringing everybody together around the campfire and promoting each other and just highlighting, in this case, women for the day and how strong women leaders are a big part of this community. And really, I attribute that to Asian culture. I think from Asian culture standpoint, and Myanmar especially, the women expect to see their men there supporting them. And likewise, they are always there supporting their men. I do think there's more hostility in America and the West where it becomes, it's a Women's Day event and it's only for women. And that, that comes from the women promotion side as much as it comes from the men not wanting to be there. But what I tried to change is more or less, and I had the help of the many of the strong women in my community, is basically saying this is an event for everybody. This is a big American business community event. Let's make it big. And we're just going to highlight our women leaders. Right. But another thing during those events we were planning is women wanted to see men on the panels and how they empower women in their organizations. And so we start— we went from basically one event that was totally women, 90+ percent, totally women to now it being more like 60/40 in favor of women and not just women-dominated panels, but we actually had a male CEO up there and it just became more of a community event as opposed to just a women event. And I would just say really quickly why I became passionate about this sort of Women's Day, International Women's Day event, because when at the time my executive director, a guy named Danny Jha came to me and said he wanted to do this. He had two men— at the time he was single and I was, I've definitely been single— basically planning an International Women's Day event. And at first I was like, I don't know, man, you know, this is gonna look a bit bad. But I was like, all right, you want to do this, I have one condition: we prioritize the main theme around women's health. Because in Myanmar, the problem with Myanmar is it's not really the access to health, it's women's, you know, health education and the access to education. And a lot of that has to do with— is with my own employees in the company. A lot of my employees that were female, long-term employees, I remember a couple years to even the first 5 years I was in Myanmar, you know, they had no idea why their bodies were just failing on them. And came from me, just, why is this person always out sick? Sick, and it'll always be one of my female staff. And what it came down to was just some awful stories— back alley abortions, and they needed to take a 2-week, you know, uh, vacation. Them never having— you know, most of my female staff, when I first came to the country, they had no idea what a pap smear was, you know. And I remember one time having to fly them out to Bangkok and basically saying, hey, here, here's basically your, your OB-GYN then go there. I'm gonna go down and take care of some other things. I'll meet you in an hour, right? And that's where it all came, is this kind of like, I don't feel that a woman should be barred the right of knowledge of somebody's health. And that, that's something I've always been about, right? I want to know more about my health. So when I saw women were in this very vulnerable position in Miramar, I wanted to change that. And so that became why I became this sort of champion of women's health in which is a very odd thing.

But yeah, I became it. Well, it's the perspective that a woman is a human and women's health is human health. And we take that to the highest level. It's the same thing with veterans, right? A woman veteran is a veteran. Veteran care is veteran care. And I, I so deeply appreciate that perspective. As we wrap up here, any final words that you have for our listeners? I know I have one question I do want you to answer. You're so hardcore in a thousand different ways. Ways, from your security background to how much you've been able to advocate and stand as a leader in an international culture setting. I want to know, how do you stay at ease? How do you take that anger that you've had for so many years and be able to manage it and not allow it to rule you?

I think that's been a long process. I think it's been a long process to figure out how to let go of things and also how to not let your anger of the past consume you. And I think my VA story is a perfect example of that. Me not wanting to put in a VA claim for over 10 years, that was a lot of me just not letting go of this old chip on my shoulder, this old bottled up anger I had against the service of how I exited. But ultimately, I think what's I've been able to achieve, a lot of it through faith and a lot of it through what I've done to find my way back to faith, is really achieve a clarity of purpose and a clarity of mind. I know exactly what I need to do in my life, and any anger or aggression I have, it needs to be focused on that. At the end of the day, who cares? Who cares about what goes on, you know, in your own community with people trying to tear you down because they're jealous or because they don't like the way you're doing things, none of that matters. None of that matters in the long term with the people that actually rely on you, the people that love you. And so I've learned to basically let go of these sort of personal vendettas, personal feelings, taking everything so personally. Yeah, if somebody's coming after you from a business standpoint, from a reputational standpoint, deal with it, but don't make it personal. It's a business decision now. And that's what I've learned how to deal with in terms of my own emotions. I'm not going to bottle, but I'm going to focus that rage age, and to really getting things done for the people I love now. And that's what my, I guess, my journey home and the exiled Sun return is about, right?

And hopefully there's a book on that one day. The exiled Sun return. Now, you mentioned faith. Can I ask you, what is your faith? I'm Catholic. You're Catholic. All right. Well, I am also— I'm not Catholic, but I am Christian. I was raised Catholic. But I just want to say welcome home to you. It's good to have you back in our community.

Thank you, Shelly, and thank you for this opportunity. This has been a pleasure.

Adam said it driving back from a recording studio in Burbank. Imagine the windows down, the chapter finally closed for him after more than a decade. He called it relief, like something that had been stuck had finally let go. He said, I'm not coming home empty-handed anymore. I'm coming home rebuilt. 'And I have gifts.' And I keep thinking about my mother's giant chickens because Adam watched corporate America hang those banners and then hand him something that wasn't actually meant for him. He knows what that feels like, and maybe you do too. And he is not about to do that to his own people. He's not pulling into Riverside, California with a polished package designed around somebody else's image of what that community needs. He knows his people. He grew up there under those Friday night lights. He is one of them. And what he's bringing back— the operational knowledge, the conflict expertise, his hard-won clarity of a man who bet everything on himself in a war zone and won— that fits Riverside. Adam Castillo was built in the field, and his experience belongs to the community. Here's what I want you to sit with. Adam's story could have looked very different. He could have filed his VA claim the day he got out. He could have picked up a part-time job, kept his head down, and built a quiet, humble life on that. That is a legitimate life, and nobody would have blamed him. But he chose to go big. And going big— you know this, my ambitious friend— going big means big emotions, It means big risks and yes, big rewards. It also means sometimes you have to travel far enough and long enough to finally circle back to where you started. That's my story too. Adam went to the other side of the world to find his way back home to Riverside, California. That's not a detour, that's the journey. Adam Castillo's book is Finding Our Voice, a story of leadership In Crisis and the American Spirit Abroad. Grab your copy with the link in the show notes. Now, your version of the American spirit may look nothing like what happened in Myanmar. The terrain is different for all of us. But if you have spent years in conditions that nobody designed for you, building solutions that nobody even asked for, you've been carrying weight that never showed up in any report. You have inventory. The question is whether you're gonna call it a loss or bring it home and put it to work. That's all for today. I'm host Shelly Rood. It's really been a joy sharing the story with you. Thank you for listening. Or if you've been watching on our YouTube channel, Others Over Self, you can count on me returning next Tuesday with a new conversation about keeping your edge without going over the edge. Until then, stay hardcore, be at ease, and trust the process.

You're listening to Hardcore and At Ease. Keep the conversation going at join.othersoverself.com.