How to Build a Defense Career Without Starting from Scratch

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Your brain, the factories that came in and just this pivotal shift towards building not only the tools and machines of war, but they were building momentum and that momentum helped propel American greatness for decades and decades after that. That momentum hasn't gone.

From others over self. It's hardcore and at ease, a show about people who are keeping their edge without going over the edge. I'm host Shelley Rude. What if I told you the infrastructure to serve your nation's defense already exists and the most ambitious Americans have no idea it's there? Today's guest is John Gutierrez, a Marine Corps officer who spent 28 years managing billion doll defense programs. Whether you're a welder, an engineer, a business owner, or someone considering military service, this conversation is about you leveraging what you already have to serve something bigger than yourself. This is hardcore and at ease.

Thank you once again for joining us, Mr. Gutierrez. It's a pleasure to have you on.

It's nice to be here. Thank you.

So today's discussion, we are going to talk about some pretty high level stuff for not only our listeners, but also for some of the members that participate in the Macomb County Chamber of Commerce, Aerospace and Defense Committee. Mr. Guterres, would you mind sharing with us what your position is and a little bit about what that might mean to a person who has no idea when they hear your title.

Of course, John Gutierrez. And I'm the executive director for the Michigan Office of Defense and Aerospace Innovation. And we reside within the Michigan Economic Development Corporation. And what our organization does is essentially we catalyze growth within the state's defense and aerospace sectors through the advancement of industrial capacity, research and innovation.

And with us today we also have one of my good friends, retired Colonel Nancy Dakin. And Nancy is with us today because I have a frog in my throat and it is very annoying to hear me talk today to myself as well. So Nancy, thank you for taking on our co hosting responsibilities today.

Good morning. Thanks for having me.

Colonel G. We'll start right off the bat with a little bit about what was your position before, your position that you're in now? Because this is a fairly new responsibility for you, is it not?

It is. So I started this role in May of 2024. Prior to that, my last assignment in the Marine Corps spent 28 years in the Marine Corps Active duty officer and retired as the portfolio manager for Logistics Combat Element Systems out of the U.S. marine Corps Systems Command in Quantico, Virginia. So that was kind of the, my, my culminating position post in the, in the Marine Corps. But I was, you know, spent 28 years, like I said, active duty. And then prior to that, while I was in college, I was a Naval reservist. I was a Navy corpsman while I was, while I was going to school.

So are we allowed to all in all three about going Navy to. Going Marine?

Well, you know, I mean, I saw the light, let's say, so it's okay.

It all falls under the Department of the Navy. But, but I do have a question about that. What, what made you decide to join the military, first of all? And then why Navy slash Marine Corps?

Sure. So as a kid, I always felt a call to service. My, my grandfather had served in the army in World War II. I had uncles who'd served in the military. My father served in the army during the Vietnam era, but they were not career service members. So my, my, my entry into the US Navy was in large part because of movie Top Gun. You know, I was born in the 80s and I thought I wanted to be a fighter pilot and, and, and, and, and do that kind of thing. So I didn't really have the, I had no idea what the military consisted of other than, you know, TV shows, et cetera, or movies. So when to have a recruiter. I wasn't really. I did not have. I wanted to go to school and so thought that the Reserve sounded like a great, a great opportunity. And I was going to school at Arizona State University, and I thought it'd be pretty neat to be able to go and drill down in San Diego and, and do that. And then during my exposure and I was in the Reserve for about five and a half years of doing that, I worked with the Marine Corps. And that personality, that, that esprit de corps, that camaraderie, just really, it was like a missing puzzle piece. And it clicked with me quite well. And 28 years later, yeah, that worked out well.

Well, thank you for your service. As a veteran myself, I appreciate your commitment to taking the full monty as you will, and making it a career. What advice would you give to younger people who are maybe not thinking about joining the service?

You know, I think the military in general doesn't matter which branch. It's the greatest meritocracy perhaps we have in this nation. I mean, everybody comes in at an equal level, you know, playing field, and you get kind of out of it what you put into it. And I think even greater, you know, the experiences, the exposure, just the opportunities are amazing. Were amazing. Still are amazing. And it's, you know, sometimes it's humbling to think you go through this journey and you're like, wow, that was quite a. An adventure. But I would just tell young people, go in with an open mind, explore your options. And, you know, it can take you very far, though, beyond your wildest dreams.

I agree. And we hear a lot about camaraderie. Actually, Shelly and I have thrown that word around a lot this past week. And it is something we have in the military that you just cannot explain until you've lived it. And I think a lot of us when we retire, we miss it. Like, that's the number one thing that I miss is just, you know, the camaraderie of your battle buddies.

So. Sure. Yeah.

Thank you for that.

Now, sir, your first duty station was in California. Is that where you were born and raised?

No. So actually I was. I was born in Nevada, but my father was a mining Engineer for the U.S. forest Service. And I was raised throughout the American West. I lived in every western state except for Hawaii and Oregon growing up. And usually about every 18 to 24 months, it was just my mom and dad, my sister, Easter, and we were moving to a small mining town somewhere in the middle, you know, somewhere in the West. That's kind of. That's where I was. I was born and raised through. All throughout there. So. But with that just had a great collection of, you know, experiences. Really strong parents, instilled a lot of the enduring values that I carry today. And that's kind of my. My background or my origin story, let's say. Yeah, well, I think all of us having worn the nation's cloth, no matter what color it was, but we know that that's. That's really gets. What gets you through those really difficult times and scenarios and situations.

And you're right, we have all the services represented here other than the Space Force.

That's true.

That's my dream. If I could do it again, man, I would be Space Force in a heartbeat. All right, let's dig into some of these heavy, heavy things about, like where we are now. So why tell me one more time the office that you represent now, and what does that mean for the average person that lives in the state of Michigan or the region or even to the nation?

Sure. So again, what the Office of Defense and Aerospace Innovation does is we catalyze growth within the state's defense and aerospace sectors through the advancement of industrial capacity, innovation, and research. And kind of what we. What we really focus on is we play a pivotal role in guiding Michigan through the shifts in the defense and aerospace sectors while driving innovation, fostering those strategic partnerships and aligning statewide efforts with national priorities. And through these proactive engagements with academic, I'm sorry, academia, industry and government, our office, the Office of Defense and Aerospace Innovation, can strengthen Michigan's competitiveness, accelerate research and expand workforce and investment opportunities within the state. In our long term, objective is really to. To transform shifts within defense and aerospace in this landscape into measurable growth by opening new contracting avenues, advancing dual use technologies, and strengthening regional capacities. And through this work, our vision is to restore Michigan as a national leader within defense and aerospace and ensuring that we as a state remain competitive, resilient, and aligning our initiatives to evolving national security priorities.

You talked about expanding the workforce, sir. Could you maybe expound on where you're collecting that workforce? Is this. What kind of background does someone need? What demographic are you looking for?

What we're doing typically on the workforce piece is we partner with our partners at leo. And so a tangible example in Macomb county would be the Michigan Maritime Manufacturing Initiative. As you know, probably last summer, the summer of 2024, Governor Whitmer and the former Secretary of the Navy, Carlos Del Toro made that announcement. And so there's two components of it. One piece is, like I mentioned, at Macomb Community College. And what they're really focused on is training a lot of those skill trades, whether they be cnc, machinists or welders, et cetera, so that they can contribute to, in large part, submarines or submarine components, which aligns to what we do within the Office of Defense and Aerospace Innovation, which is increase competitiveness or set conditions to increase competitiveness for defense and aerospace companies. And, you know, everybody needs those skill trades. So we benefit. We, the state of Michigan, benefit. We, the, you know, the residents of Macomb county and all the other counties within the state, they benefit by, you know, the Navy's investment into a program such as this. And, you know, all of those citizens who come out and have those skills and can contribute in a meaningful way to not only national security, but to their local communities.

Nancy, have you ever welded anything?

You know, it's so funny. I was actually looking at going to welding school. I've done a lot of soldering, you know, in my aircraft maintenance background, things like that, but never actually welding. But yeah, it's something I would love to. I love all the trades. I. I want to learn everything for sure.

So the Michigan maritime workforce, it's very interesting to think about this from the perspective of a young person trying to find their footing in their career path. They could essentially not just gain that skill of being a welder, but they could be welding, welding submarines that are used in the next major conflict. That's very exciting and meaningful work.

That is, that is. And what we're seeing is so many of our companies within the state are seeing, I talked about those shifts within, you know, the national security ecosystem at the federal level, but you're seeing this, this pivot towards, you know, the priority is going to maritime, so shipbuilding, submarines, space, aerospace. Not to say that, you know, ground forces aren't being invested in, but it's, it's just not at the forefront priority, I would say. So although we, you know, what I always say when I'm, when I'm engaging the ecosystem within the state is, you know, we'll never divorce ourselves, which is wonderful, from the great and strong ground vehicle communities within the state of Michigan, particularly lacombe County. When you're looking at tank and automotive command and you know, all the tenant organizations underneath that, that's what it aligns quite well with the auto sector within Michigan, which is our number one, you know, industry within the state. Conditions are changing and we just need to diversify. So we've seen some of the prime, large, prime contractors who are primarily on the ground side approach us and say, what are some of those opportunities within the maritime component? Can we, can we pivot? Can we shift? And we're not only talking the large primes, but we're talking about second and third tier suppliers as well. How do we, for example, pivot in? Maybe I make a wiring harness that's used in a commercial application. But are there opportunities within the defense sector specifically maybe in the maritime sector or the space sector, et cetera.

Now you mentioned that you're working on partnerships with academia. Can you give us an example of what that might look like?

Of course. So right now we are working with seven universities. They're led by Central Michigan University, so the R2s. And so what we're looking at doing is setting up a university affiliated research center. Uwark, that's a federal term. It's sanctioned by dod and essentially what it does is allows those federal research and development dollars to come into the state and into these universities to solve some of our most difficult, wicked problems. We stood up a consortium with the R2s within the state because, you know, who doesn't want to see Central Michigan University or Saginaw Michigan, you know, Saginaw or these others, Kettering you know, have those opportunities. Our R1s right now, you know, they're very fortunate. They, they have a lot of those opportunities now. And we're going to continue to advance, you know, partnership with the R1s as well. But that's what I mean by working with academia in this term is advancing, advancing this local consortium, which will then kind of put us on a glide path to getting this federal designation as a York. And so we've been working with the services, we've been working with the universities, etc.

And once those research dollars come in, what does that mean? Like, if I'm a student at Central Michigan and I am affiliate in this program, somehow, what are we researching?

A lot of times there are critical issues faced by the Department of Defense that are, you know, highlighted within our national security strategy. So, say, notionally, an example might be hypersonics. And let's say you're. You're studying engineering at University X. Well, this might be a, a great research project for you to work on. And, and some of this work could be, not all the time, could be classified. And then you get exposure to some of these companies, et cetera, that are in this space. So maybe there's an internship for you, et cetera.

That right there is ringing so many bells for me, sir, because I served army and I was a military intelligence captain. And to think back to my college years and my experience with the military, I did do rotc, so I dipped my boots in the water there. And I felt like as a college student, I knew a lot more than my peers when it came to national defense and what was happening in the bigger picture. And just knowing that there's an opportunity for this to happen at Central Michigan University and these other schools that are out here, that's very exciting. And it, it takes you like, okay, now you're a person that's ready for that next level with higher education, but let's go even higher than that. You know, let's really dig into the knowledge and the wisdom and the research and solve some of these issues of our national defense.

There's.

How is that not motivating?

That's right. And to me, it's very motivating. And, you know, to get these young people fired up about that, fired up about solving these, you know, wicked problems. Everybody wants to make a difference, particularly when, you know, at that, usually at that inflection in your life, that point. And so what better way to maybe start that spark, and maybe some of them will pivot and want to, want to Seek a career or, you know, or perform some service in uniform or just support our country and our nation and our national security in other ways.

Nancy, we were out at Northern Strike 14 recently, and we saw some of these students out there. They were getting paid and they were getting their education hours to test flying.

Drones around the Michigan Maritime manufacturing initiative, the M3 initiative. So a couple of different things. If, you know, Macomb Community College does have. I would. I would encourage companies, if they're looking for some of those skilled trades, you know, those workers to touch base with Macomb Community College, as far as, you know, those pipelines and opportunities with those students, if you're looking for other opportunities. So, for example, I used that wiring harness example before. And so, you know, in order to perform work with a Department of Defense, specifically United States Navy, and some of these programs, you've got to go through some. You've got to go through some training and get some certifications for your business. So one could be cybersecurity and maturity model certification that's required for all Department of Defense contracts. What we do as an office is we kind of assist and guide companies if they approach us, how you get this, how you obtain these certified, etc. The other thing that we do, though, is we also perform much of the same functions in order for them to get their Naval Sea Systems Command certifications in order to be a supplier to the United States and Navy for those products, those supplies to the Navy.

Well, speaking as a small business that's registered for federal contracting, sir, it is. It's messy. I mean, it's clean, like you can do it. But if you want to go after some of these primes and even some of these subcontract opportunities, you have to be dedicated and you really have to check the boxes. And what I love about this is that there's a new wave, a new push for cybersecurity. Certain certifications have to happen within the small businesses and leaning into established programs that the government already has in place that don't charge you to get you up to speed. There's so much opportunity, but we have to go after it.

There is. And, you know, much of what we do in our office is just community outreach and informing, you know, the folks within this great state. So what we do is on almost about a monthly basis, we're out within. We've aligned ourselves to the 11 apex accelerators within the state. And so what we do is we go out to a community. We were in Saginaw. We've been to Flint. We've been to others and we, we hold a town hall and we invite resource providers there that, that we, the MEDC and the Office of Defense and Aerospace Innovation have partnered with and we let them know, hey, these opportunities are here for you. Here's some of the, in broad terms, here's some of the opportunities within defense, aerospace, et cetera. And then here's some of the tools and resources. There are many times at no cost to these companies. For example, we have a proposal and grant writing service that provides up to $10,000 to help and assist companies with a bid response to DoD or I'm sorry, Department of Defense slash Department of War or Homeland Security contracting opportunities. We also have a bid targeting system that we have also no cost to companies if they're based in Michigan that helps them identify and prioritize federal contracting opportunities.

So, so, so if you are a small business in the state of Michigan, you definitely want to get on board with serving your nation and becoming a government contractor. And one of the easiest ways to do that is through what Mr. Gutierrez said about Apex Accelerators. I'm going to put the link to that in the show notes. It's Apex Accelerators and these accelerators offer no cost guidance and support services to help your business succeed in the government marketplace. Meritocracy at its finest. Now, mission ambition. My company is actually being featured in the next Apex accelerator newsletter that they're putting out as a success story because we did win a bid that came from our Macomb county government. So thumbs up to that and I'm living proof that this system absolutely works great.

And congratulations.

Nancy, you got to follow up on that.

Don't I want to. You know, so you're pretty hardcore, right? I mean everything we're talking about is pretty serious business. The nation's defense government contracts, all super serious. What do you do? Super fun.

Well, nowadays I, I typically, my wife and I will go, we'll go exploring a lot of Michigan. We love a lot of the trails, the Paint Creek Trail, Clinton River Trail, et cetera. And we'll, we'll, you'll see us hiking out on that extensively on, you know, weekends at Tequilas. Yes.

For trails. For sure.

Michigan is awesome for trails. Yes. As a, as a non native Michigander, this is a pretty special place.

How long have you been here?

I was stationed here from 2015 to 2018 as a lieutenant colonel and then I've been here now since April, April of 2024. And my wife is not from here either, so no Michigan roots What I.

Love about that question, Nancy, is you gave him the opportunity to show that he's living out what he preaches. You know, he really is here for the heart and soul of Michigan. Small businesses and government, defense, and it's, you know, it's him and his wife on the trail. That's freedom at its finest. You know, Roosevelt and his national park system came through the hardship that Roosevelt faced, and he found a connection with God and he found a connection with creation, and he found healing out in the national park system.

And Michigan has some of the best park. I mean, I've been all over. And not just the best trails, but the best parks like our state parks are really wonderful. And if you get up, you know, north of Mount Pleasant, man, it's just a beautiful, beautiful state. Not that south of Mount Pleasant isn't, but, you know, it's just. Sure, it just opens up and, you know, it's yours to explore.

Yeah. I'll be headed to the Upper Peninsula next week, and I've never been there before, so. Looking forward to that.

That'll be a treat.

That'll be great.

It will be a treat because it's only September and you're not going.

That's right.

With six feet of snow on the ground.

Yes. But it's going to be beautiful. Leaves are already changing and it's gorgeous up there this time of year.

So you're an athletic man. You're a bit of a hiker. Former Marine. Come on, sir, tell me how he's a Marine.

Come on now.

Thank you for that correction. Well noted. How. How have you stayed at ease over the years? Because you definitely are somebody that has managed not to go over the edge. And I know from your background that you could have gone that way pretty easily quite a few times.

I go back to, you know, much of what I mentioned before, my roots or my origins for where it came from. I think part of that nomadic lifestyle as I was being raised, you know, that instilled in me and my parents did, kind of this deep sense of self reliance, strong work ethic, and an unwavering commitment to, you know, seeing things through. And my. My other better half, let's say that I've been with for Almost well over 30 years now, my wife, you know, that that could be a good thing or a bad thing, that, that seeing it through. But yes, I, you know, I. When I put myself into something, I'm. I'm all in. And so that's kind of, you know, there's something special about the state beyond the trails and beyond, you know, the. The physical beauty. And I think much of it is this spirit that I see within the men and women of this great state. And it doesn't matter if I'm in a university, it doesn't matter if I'm in a meeting with government leaders, and it doesn't matter if I'm in a manufacturing facility in the Thumb or whatever. Spirit, this grit, this. The spirit of, hey, you're not going to knock me down. I'm going to get back up. And I'm committed to what I start. And I just. It. It really resonates with me. These are my people, so my kind of people. So I love it.

Well, in Detroit, there's a famous sculpture called the Spirit of Detroit. And the figure has something in each hand, and in one hand it's a sun representing divinity and divine power and overview. And on the other hand, it's community and family. And it's wonderful to hear from somebody who has traveled not just our country, but the globe that you can see from the outside in that the state of Michigan has that spirit. I mean, Detroit's got it on lockdown, let's be real. But it emanates to the rest of the state. Sir, can you remind us a little bit just about the history of Michigan and Detroit and how important we have been over the years when it comes to national defense?

Of course, right now we have a campaign within the Michigan Office of Defense and Aerospace Innovation. We're developing a strategic plan, and our theme is reimagine the arsenal of democracy. You know, and there's so much. There's so much to that. When you think about that time when men and women were, you know, at Willow Run, for one example, and, you know, the factories that came in and just this pivotal shift towards, you know, building not only the tools and machines of war, but they were building momentum. And that momentum helped propel American greatness. For decades and decades after that, that momentum hasn't gone away. And I think that there's so much that we can do within this state to really leverage our heritage, but also recognize that there are other things on the horizon that we can still apply. That the heritage of grit and hard work and determination and. And not getting knocked down. And if you do get knocked down, you get back up and you learn from that and you just keep going. And so that, to me, is a special piece of Michigan culture, is that arsenal of democracy and how that still lives and breathes today, particularly in this defense and aerospace ecosystem that we're in.

Now, I'm interested in the team that you lead because I get the sense that you're an incredible leader. And I wonder when you look at what your calendar looks like on a day to day, you know, are you interacting with, you know, a small, tight group of disciples or are you interacting with, you know, standing in front of hundreds?

It depends. Some days I am in a small team, other days I'm with a small team of government leaders at all different levels. And then, you know, I can be in an audience, you know, speaking on something with hundreds of people there, or it could be on a factory floor. And I'm going to be visiting some small places up in the Upper Peninsula next week. So it's really a cross section of smallest team to a very large team. But, but it's, it's all part of this larger ecosystem. And to me it's part of this. And you ladies get this quite well with your backgrounds, but it's, it's part of this piece of serving something bigger than yourself. And that's what I think we're in right now. You know, we're part of something bigger than ourselves.

I wish that I could put that on a plaque and mail it out to like a million people. What is it that you're serving that's bigger than yourself? If you can't answer that question, maybe we need to meditate on it for a while.

That's right.

What about, I mean, Nancy, you're retired now. Can you answer that question now?

What's the question?

What are you serving that's bigger than yourself?

Gosh, that's a great question. Anything and everything that I can think of, really. You know, my local community, dogs, other people, veterans. Yeah.

Yep. And those are all incredibly important. Yes.

And sir, you didn't just retire. I mean, you could, right? You got a retirement from the Marine Corps. You could have been done. Why weren't you done?

I thought I still professionally still had something to provide, to give, to give back. You know, having been having been a nomad as a kid and then a professional nomad as a Marine, you know, it was really important. My wife and I, we, we really wanted to come back to Michigan. And we've been stationed many places, but we wanted to come back to Michigan, make it our home in retirement. And this opportunity came up and to me this was a perfect marriage, the perfect blend of, you know, the place I wanted to, we, my family and I wanted to live. But also this is a great opportunity to provide not only opportunities for our state, but for our Nation. Because I think that Michigan is a significant strategic contributor to national defense.

Now you're part of the Macomb County Chamber. What's your connection to Macomb County?

My connection to Macomb County? Well, I'm a. I'm a Oakland county resident, so I'm a Macomb adjacent in that. But I love Macomb county like all other counties within the great state of Michigan. But, you know, you're the home of the defense corridor. And my, My roots to Macomb go back when I was a lieutenant colonel from 2015 to 2018, stationed at Selfridge at the Joint Program Office for Joint Flight Tactical Vehicles. And so that was my. That was my tie in at that time.

All right, I want to get some really cool visions of you in service. So tell me something really awesome that you did. Like the type of vehicle that you were driving. You just kind of mentioned vehicles.

Let's see. So, pretty. Pretty diverse career. So probably I would say one of two of the best assignments that I had. I was a contingency contracting officer as a young captain. I graduated the Naval Postgraduate School back in December of 2001. The world had changed dramatically from when I entered that school, studying acquisition and contract management. And then so I did contingency contracting for three years. I was assigned to the 2nd Marine Expeditionary Force out of Camp Lejeune and then deployed for about 11 months to Operation Iraqi Freedom 1. And some of the coolest things I would say is at that time, it was kind of the Wild west for contracting. And my Marines and I, there were. There were six of us. We lived out in the. I spent during that period of time three days in uniform and three days living on a base, lived out in town, had a beard, long hair, concealed weapons, you know, doing business deals, which it kind of felt like a. It was a different experience than what I anticipated. You know, going into something like that as a. As a young lieutenant or officer candidate or something like that. It was a completely different animal. So that was something I would say was really unique in doing some work in Afghanistan and Haiti during that tour as well. And then later on as a lieutenant colonel working on the Joint Program Office Joint LIE Tactical Vehicle Program. We're going through low rate initial production and just all that testing and everything it takes to get, you know, program a record into production and fielding, et cetera. So those are two big notable things.

Tell me about that. What's a program of record and getting it into whatever you said?

Sure. So why it takes the military so long to field something is you go through the down select and everything when you, you know, when you have that requirement in your down, selecting a vendor and then, and that's already a heavy lift. But then at that point in time you've got all of these testing requirements. So blast testing, you know, it's got to meet all the threat requirements or. We were dealing also with low velocity airdrop, which, you know, Marine Corps, we don't really do A lot of low.

Velocity airdrop is like a vehicle hanging from a plane and you drop it.

Yeah, we were, we were pushing out jointly tactical vehicles out of planes and they were parachuting out because they, you know, they needed to be fielded to the 18th Airborne Corps for the United States Army. So that was, that was one aspect of it. And then the other aspect is shifting to my former service. The Marine Corps is, well, has to operate also in an amphibious environment. So you're taking it into, you know, we're going down to the San Diego area and you're, you're having it in you, you're, you're, you're conducting a, a beach offload and, and things of that nature and a whole host of other testing scenarios. But each one of these tests reveals an issue and then you've got to go back and iterate on that, make those changes.

I was chatting with my husband yesterday and telling him I had this opportunity to interview you, sir, and he's not military and he definitely is of like a grunt mindset. You know, he thinks of military people as like the cool guy on the ground doing the thing. So I appreciate hearing, you know, that story that you shared about doing that type of ground level contracting. And I don't know if it's the same in the Marines or Navy, but we call it flying a desk in the army. When you get to a certain point now you got to fly a desk. Did you feel that transition through your career or is it just that you just kept going?

I would say, you know, although I was a, you know, 28 years Marine Corps, I would say 22 of that was as an acquisition officer, certainly a lot of time and in an office environment, etc. But you know, because of the wars, you know, we're still, you still got deployed. You know, I was deployed to Afghanistan a number of times and know the things that, whether you were fielding your equipment, you know, in theater, to soldiers, Marines, sailors, et cetera, on the ground, you know, you're, you still have that, still have very much that tactical touch point of, you know, the men and women that you're developing these items for and you're going out and you're making sure it works, you're making sure if there's issues, et cetera. So to me, that was always the most rewarding thing is you're. Nobody loves working behind a desk all the time, but at least gave you the opportunity to still get your boots, Sandy, let's say.

Well, that's very special because I can feel that that is a mindset that can be embodied by the ground level workforce that we have here in the state of Michigan. Because there are a lot of people that quite frankly won't qualify for military service or it's just not in their cards, it's not what they're meant to do. But they can still serve the mission and they can still be a huge part of our nation's defense. And I love hearing that. Your mindset of being over there and getting your boots, Sandy, you can do that here in Michigan. That's amazing.

Yes, you can. If you wanted me to specifically mention what we, this office are doing within Macomb county or for Macomb county. So really what I see is we're strategic partners and what we do is we, we enhance the region's role as a critical hub within the defense industrial base. And I mean, you're the home to the defense corridor, you're the home to Tacom, you know, all these storied, you know, organizations or areas and all the companies and men and women that make up those areas. It's also, we also support local contractors, especially those tied to, you know, the defense industry. And, you know, we improve access to federal contracting pathways and foster collaboration between not only regional stakeholders, but stakeholders across the state as well, even the nation. And we drive community investment through infrastructure initiatives, innovation hubs, and that workforce development training program like I mentioned at Macomb Community College for that Michigan Maritime Manufacturing Initiative.

So pretend that there's a small business in Macomb county that wants to get behind national defense, but they're thinking small. What would you say to them?

What I would say is, you know, engage, engage with your local economic development organizations, whether it be, you know, Macomb county, you know, they've got some just outstanding Americans there that are doing great work. The Detroit Regional Defense Coalition, which is now comprised of Macomb, Oakland and Wayne counties as well as the city of Detroit. And so they're forming that and, you know, we're working with them. I know that's a new organization that's just now standing up, but do participate and plug in with those communities. Plug in with the state's Office of Defense and Aerospace Innovation. We host those, like I mentioned, town halls. We have them in southeast Michigan here. We also host a webinar series, an educational webinar series, and those are themed different ways. And sometimes we focus on what's it like to do business in space, what's it like to do business, aerospace, maritime, et cetera. So it's kind of a multi part series. They're recorded, we call them two on the twos. So it's the second Tuesday of every month at 2:00'. Clock. And so, you know, plug yourself in. You're going to meet small business owners, men and women who have been in your shoes on your left and right. You can learn a lot of lessons, you can make new friends, colleagues, et cetera. And you know, more than anything, I think it's, it's this ecosystem, this kind of, this kind of work that we do. It's a people business. It doesn't matter. You know, you ladies understand this being, being veterans, the military and defense is a, it's a people business. Doesn't matter what you're flying a desk or an airplane or a ship. And it's the same, I think, in this community, this ecosystem. Plug in, get to know what those constraints are, get to know what, what success looks like. And I think you'll go far. That's what I would tell a small business owner.

Hey, small business owner, it's you. You're listening. Your ears are perking.

I know that.

And you can feel that burning inside of you. Like, yes, Shelly, I'm ambitious. I'm ready to go. Guess what? We're already out here going. And this is your invitation to join us. All right, sir. Anything else that you'd like to give to our listener before we wrap up?

Ladies and gentlemen, hey, it's been a pleasure to be here with you and really excited to have the opportunity to share what we're doing at the Office of Defense and Aerospace Innovation. And I look forward to seeing you at some of our community events. Thank you.

Retired Colonel John Gutierrez. Thank you for serving our nation for so many years.

Thank you, ladies.

That was John Guterres. And before I go further, a special thank you to retired Colonel Nancy Dakin for co hosting this conversation. And I have to mention one of my favorite parts of this interview was when John described himself as being a professional nomad. First as a kid, moving across the west every 18 months, but then again throughout his career in the Marine Corps. That Nomadic lifestyle didn't make him rootless. It made him resourceful and adaptable. Which is exactly what we're talking about today. My voice is still a little scratchy, so we're going to close this episode pretty quickly. What really struck me about this conversation was how someone who spent 28 years leading billion dollar defense programs still believes that the greatest meritocracy we have is open to everyone. Not just business owners, not just contractors, everyone. And here's what most people miss. Contributing to national defense doesn't require starting a company or winning a contract. John's own journey proves this. He started as a Navy corpsman paying his way through college. A medical technician. Not an officer, not a business owner, just someone who wanted to serve something bigger than himself. What I've learned from working across military, corporate and entrepreneurial environments is that ambitious professionals are always looking for the complex solution when sometimes the breakthrough is hiding in plain sight. You don't need to own a business to contribute to national security. You need skills, work ethic and the willingness to take resourceful action with what you have where you are right now. John mentioned welders building submarine components, engineering students working on classified hypersonics research, and tradespeople accessing training programs that lead to mission critical careers. These aren't entrepreneurs. These are individuals who discovered their existing capabilities matter to something bigger than a paycheck. This is what hardcore daddies looks like in practice. Whether you're exploring military service, considering a career transition into defense sectors, or looking for work that connects to national purpose, the infrastructure already exists. Apex accelerators aren't just for business owners. If you think your business should be a part of it, jump on board. Workforce training programs serve individuals, research opportunities welcome students and military service. It's still the greatest meritocracy John has ever seen where everybody starts at an equal playing field and you get out what you put in. The biggest barrier isn't your current situation, it's awareness.

And now you're aware.

If you're tired of feeling like your ambition and skills don't have anywhere meaningful to go, I'm here for that conversation. The nation's defense needs welders, machinists, engineers, logistics specialists, program managers, and yes, business owners like me. But most importantly, it needs people who are willing to serve something bigger than themselves. Screenshot this episode and tag me at othersoverself with hardcore in Eddies. Well hey there listener. Thank you so much for joining me me today and for making it through my scratchy voice. There's a lot of words and music that you could be listening to right now, and I'm honored that you've chosen to lend an ear to learn more about what it takes to live Hardcore and At Ease. No one said that it would be easy, and it is absolutely worth it. I'm host Shelly Rude, and you can count on me returning next Tuesday. We'll continue exploring what it means to do extraordinary things with what you have where you are. Until then, stay hardcore, be at ease, and remember that you don't need to own a business or start from scratch. You need to take resourceful action toward work that matters. I'll see you then.

You're listening to Hardcore and At Ease. Keep the conversation going@join.othersoverself.com.