When Do Ambitious Leaders Get to Be Loved?

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When I think of confidence, it's how I show up in a space, right? It's how I show up physically. So you will always see me in bright colors because more than likely I'm going to talk about death and dying and I don't want you to think that I'm the grim reaper.

From others over self. It's hardcore and at ease. This show is about people who are keeping their edge without going over the edge. I'm host Shelley Rude. When do ambitious leaders like us get to be loved for who we are and not just this perfection model that people expect? Today's panel from our 2023 Others of Yourself Leadership Conference feature five women veterans sharing how they built authentic confidence through failure, how they transformed criticism into motivation, and how they've discovered that our light only grows when we share it. This is hardcore and at ease. I'm recording this between Christmas and New Year's, and it's time for some deep reflection. I needed today's panel conversation more than you know. The holidays this year brought custody negotiations with an abusive ex husband, watching my older sister also losing herself deeper and deeper into alcohol abuse. And in these impossibly hard moments, I started asking that dangerous question. Are we loved for just being ourselves? Or do people only like us because we are that model of perfection that they were first attracted to? When do ambitious leaders get to lower our standards and when do we get to just be accepted and loved? Or do we always have to put on this fake mask? Here's what has really helped pull me out of this negative thought spiral. My team. I went back to this panel from Detroit in 2023 and I listened to Kelly Tullock, Erica Hoover, Paz Colston and Sarah Gagnon. Even Quinn, Galloway, Salazar. They told their stories. They talk about being told that they were too happy for the military, about starting over after being fired while caring for a dying parent, about being 65 years old and still working on being comfortable in our own skin. These women reminded me why we even started this podcast to give voice to leaders who keep showing up authentically, even when it's hard to build social support networks that can catch us when we're questioning everything. My hope for you is that this episode is something that you can use to do what these women have done for me. Pull yourself out of whatever negative thought spiral you might be in to remember that you don't have to choose between being loved and being excellent. Because we're going to get through this together. And now here's the panel bolstering self confidence from the others over self. 2023 Leadership Conference and women Veterans Engage Detroit presented by General Motors panel led by US Air Force veteran Kelly Tull.

Kelly is an Air Force veteran who.

Proudly served for five years, then went into onto private military contracting before returning to the states to finish her degree in intelligence operations. Kelly is currently serving the female veteran population with women veteran strong in Hillsdale County Veteran coalition. She's also a teacher, so continuing to serve. And she is just a ball of.

Energy and I love to be around her.

And you're going to love this panel, ladies and gentlemen. Kelly.

Thank you, Nancy. I appreciate you. Hi ladies. As Nancy said, I am a ball of energy on my resume. For a very long time I had up as my headquarters. I will be your ray of sunshine in your dark room. And for anybody in the intel field, you know, we work in dark rooms. No lights, no windows. Welcome to the vault. So this is who I am. This is who I've learned to be through the years. And confidence building comes with some hard territory, right? You got rocks, you got bumps, and then you get a little bit bruised. But along the way, you learn to smile and laugh through it. But that being said, I have four wonderful women up here to join me today. We have Erica. Ms. Erica Hooper. Come on up. We got Ms. Paz. Please, ma', am, join us. Ms. Sarah and Ms. Quinn. I'm gonna have all these ladies introduce themselves because I can tell you each bio is more impressive and more impressive going up or down. So welcome these ladies. Everybody, let's start with Erica. Please introduce yourself.

So hi, everybody. I'm Erica Hoover. I am the women veterans and Special Populations coordinator for the state of Michigan. So I'm your advocate. Get my card before y' all leave and we'll be close friends. I'm a Navy veteran as well. I served from 2009 to 2013. I was a aviation machinist mate. I worked on the F18. Yeah, that's me in a nutshell. I love this work, serving all of you and all underserved veteran populations in our state.

Ms. Paz, hello.

Hello, ladies and gentlemen. Hi, I'm Paz Colston Bonner. I'm an army veteran. I was in from 2000 till 2020. I'm still serving. I am the owner of Homes for Heroic Veterans, which is a nonprofit. We provide housing for homeless veterans. We help them get their benefits, make sure they're going to the VA, do the things that they need. We're three and a half years old and we successfully transitioned about 30 veterans.

I'm Sarah Gagnon. I was active duty from 2008 to 2019 and then switched over to the Air Michigan Guard out of Battle Creek. I'm currently now also on my civilian side working at General Motors, and I kind of work in the autonomous space with sensors and big data.

Good afternoon, y'.

All.

So I am Quentin Galloway Salazar. I am not from Michigan. I am here from Georgia, hence the y'.

All.

So it's an honor to be here. I'm an army veteran and I could not be here without the sponsorship of residential hospice. So why does residential hospice sponsor me to be here? Because I am an end of life doula. So you all know what a birth doula is. I'm on the other end of the spectrum and I'm also a death educator as it relates to educating communities on how to support and serve veterans and their loved ones through the end of life. So it's an honor to be here and to continue to represent Georgia. I am Georgia's Woman Veteran of the Year. Along with these bad amazing women. We are going to get this conversation started.

Wow.

That's fantastic. I didn't know that part. That's incredible. So we're here to talk about confidence. The most important thing to talk about with confidence is what does it actually look like? Is it something tangible? Is it how we wear our hair or how we dress? Is it how we present ourselves? Is it something that we exude? What is confidence to you ladies? Let's start with Ms. Quinn.

No pressure.

No pressure.

When I think of confidence, it's how I show up in a space, right? It's how I show up physically. So you will always see me in bright colors because more than likely I'm going to talk about death and dying. And I don't want you to think that I'm the grim reaper. So I'm going to show up colorful to lighten the mood. It's also how I make you feel. So I'm going to lean in and I'm going to make you feel as though you are the most important person in my orbit. And my hope is that the level of confidence that I exude rubs off on you to do the same thing and to give the next person that you have the opportunity to interface with.

To me, confidence is being comfortable with yourself. It took me a long time to get there. I'm not going to get into a long, drawn out story, but I've always been plus size. I've never been thin. I'm 65 years old. And when I was growing up, Twiggy was the role model. Okay, Everybody had to be thin. If you weren't thin, it was a problem. My mother was getting diet pills from the doctor, and at 15 years old, I said, mom, I'm fat. I never even wore a single digit. I think my first recognition of a size was size 14. My mother made my clothes, and my mother said to me, if you still think you're fat at 16, I'll take you to the doctor, get diet pills. And she did. I was addicted to those things for two years. I mean, just horrible, because I was not comfortable with who I am. Fast forward, years later, I started looking at myself, realizing that I'm beautiful. I've modeled. I've modeled for Chrysler many times. I've been the only plus size model on the Runway. So that really gave me confidence to be around women because we want to see what our clothes look. Look like on somebody our own size. We don't want to look at a magazine in the clothes are all size 10 and under. We want to know what clothes look like on regular people. So for me, confidence is being comfortable with yourself. No matter your age, your height, your race, anything else, we're all beautiful, so we have to be comfortable with ourselves. You want to follow that mic on that one?

Go for it, Sarah.

Wow. You know, confidence for me is, again, I can probably echo what they've said. It's how I show up in spaces. So I wear many hats. I'm super comfortable outside. I've been exploring, hunting and fishing, and I love those things. I own a little hobby farm, and so I wear car hearts. I wear great boots. Anybody wants to go in on a women's clothing line with me, I would love to do that. I, you know, and then when I show up in spaces, like for work, you know, how I dress makes me feel good and confident about myself to go and talk to people, because I would say I'm. I used to be one of the most introverted people that you would. Could ever meet. I was a kid. I couldn't even say my name out loud in a group of folks. And so this job has really pushed me, pushed my limits. And so, yeah, confidence to me is, I guess, dressing the part, looking the part, and feeling like I can show up in those spaces and be a good advocate and a good person.

All on you, Sarah.

It's finally my turn. I know I've always seen confidence as kind of doing hard things and not being afraid of Failure. And I'll tell you, I have fallen on my face a lot. Like you said, it's taken a long time to build confidence. And I would even say at this point, there's always that glimmer that's still not there. Right? And so I would say taking on really challenging things, and it's different for everybody, but just understanding that it's okay to fail. And through those fails, you're always going to learn something so that you can do it better next time. And then sometimes it's a little bit of fake it till you make it. And I think that's okay, too.

Fake it till you make it. Totally works. When I was in the military, starting out as a briefer, I was very shy. I was very nervous. I'd always be like this. And one of my colonels one day brought me aside. He was an F15 pilot who was brought back twice out of retirement to go into UAVs, which are basically paper planes compared to an F15. And he said to me one day, I am so tired of seeing you brief, nervous you're going to stand in the Captain Morgan pose until I tell you to stop, and you are going to talk to me. And I learned. I learned that they're just people and you gotta sometimes roll with what you got. So I absolutely loved him. His name is Colonel Peppers, and I will forever remember that man. Love him still to this day. My next question for the panelists is, has there ever been a time where you maybe have stumbled or gained confidence and an unconditional, unconventional method? We talked about it before. I think Odie had said it earlier. Maybe it was Nancy, it was Winston Churchill's quote of, success is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm. And that's a pretty hard thing to do when you don't really know your way. So what about you ladies? Have we gained confidence from maybe a stumble or maybe an adverse situation? Would you like to go, Ms. Unicorn?

Yes, I will begin. So I think what I failed when I introduced myself is when I was active duty, I was a navigator and weapons officer on an AC130. And prior to that, you have to go through flight school. And there's an initial flight school to prep you for flight school. And when I was a nice shiny lieutenant, I went to initial flight training. And the way they have it set up there is you're in small groups of maybe 20 people, and they call them flights. And you go in and you get. You brief every day, and you go out and you fly. And we were Just flying these little aircraft just to kind of get familiarized with, you know, the setup of, you know, get some hours on your belt so you understand how to fly a plane and then get familiar with how, you know, flight training is going to go. And so I was going to fly one day, and I stepped out. And part of it is when you get to the aircraft, you check in with the tower and you tell them that you have the information of the day or the hour at that airfield. And it kind of includes, like, what Runway is being used, what the weather's like, and what the winds are like. And so I get in the aircraft and I call in, you know, I said, Tower Spooky 4 4, you know, ready to taxi with Information Unicorn. And I just carried on and started flying. You know, we did all our checklists, took off, flew, came back around to land. At the end of the day, we're still within that same hour. And the way that those. The airfield information is is it goes by the phonetic Alphabet. And every hour it changes. We are still in the same hour. And I come back around and, you know, I call back the tower to come land. And I said, you know, tower, this is Spooky Four. Four, you know, you know, checking in with information Unicorn didn't think anything of it. Go to land. Go eat lunch. And all of a sudden, I hear in the background, they're like, did you guys hear that freaking girl say unicorn on the radio? And I was like. And my buddy is like, hey, hey, did you hear that? And I was like, what? What are you talking about? He's like, that was you? And I was like, what do you. What do you mean? And then he's like, you said unicorn on the radio multiple times during the hour that you were flying. And I was like, no, I didn't. And they're like, what's the letter EU Phonetically? I was like, uniform. And they were like, you did not say uniform. That did not come out of your mouth. You said unicorn multiple times. I was like, no, that's not. I don't think I would say that. And they were like, oh, you said that. So then the whole lunch, I mean, everybody. We all ate lunch together. The whole group. Everyone's just laughing at this and, you know, coming up to me, and they're like, that was. You know, that was you. That was really funny that you. That took a lot of balls. Like, that was really funny. And meanwhile, I'm like, I still, like, shocked that I said this, because I, you know. So anyway, later that day, I'm out working out, and I get. Somebody comes in like, Sarah, you've got to go to the flight commander's office. And the way that it was run, initial flight training, these were all, like, retired military flight instructors. And I had an old, crusty army helicopter pilot, and he calls me in and he makes me report into him, and he chews me up and down about how I am too happy for the military and I shouldn't belong here, and how if I don't take it seriously and use the real phonetic Alphabet and, you know, that I can't go on saying unicorn, and nobody takes me seriously, and I'm too hot. Just up and. I mean, just. Just continue. And this went on I don't know how long, but in the back of my mind, I'm biting my tongue, almost laughing, because it's comical at this point, right? I'm getting yelled at for being happy. Said unicorn, I flew. Well, I wasn't bad at my job. I was doing everything I was supposed to do. I passed my test. At the end of it, he just slams his bookshelf, and he's like, you owe me 25 times of writing the phonetic Alphabet by tomorrow morning. And he's like, dismissed. And he goes. And I walk out the door. I was like, all right, have a good day, sir. Walked out, and you just hear this door slam behind it, and off I went. So that was just one of, like, the funny ways of, you know, I don't know, the way that maybe we can be perceived. And, you know, it kind of was one of those things that I think I could have taken it the opposite way, but in my mind, I was like, but I did really well. I don't know why I'm getting yelled at for this. And kind of continued. And I made it a point to even be happier as I continued on, because I feel like it was, like, my point in life to be happy, and I wasn't going to let the military change that.

Now you got to ask the question again.

So the question is, is there an unconventional method in which you gain some confidence?

Yes.

Let's hear it, Miss Paz.

When I. Okay, I forgot to tell you guys this. I omitted that I am also the 2021 Macomb County Veteran of the Year. I'm the first female veteran and veteran of color that's ever received that award in Macomb county for the work that we do with. I do with veterans. Okay? So when I went into basic training, when I went down for my ASVAB test, the highest Area I scored in was legal. Never had any legal training. I was 21 years old and think anything about it. So when I came back home after active duty, I had to go to jury duty. And the judge says, oh, I see, you're a legal secretary. I was working for UAW Legal Services. I was not a legal secretary. I think I was a clerk. Still didn't know anything about legal. So after I got off a jury duty, I asked one of the. It was an attorney there, and I said, can you kind of teach me a little bit of legal stuff? They keep telling me I'm good with legal. So he started training me, you know, to do some briefs a little bit. And shortly after that, my father got deathly ill and I was taking too many days off and the UAW fired me. So I decided, you know what? Let me try to find a temp agency for something. I was heartbroken. I didn't really want to work for anybody anymore. So I found a temporary agency that hired legal secretaries. Now, mind you, zero experience. The little stuff he taught me was like nothing. But I had said I made up in my mind, if I can get into a law office, I'm sure I can figure out what's going on. This is me. Like, how stupid am I? Well, I got. Of course, when you're. Is there anybody here that's worked for temp agencies, did any type of temp work? So when you go into an office, most of the time they tell you everything. They're going to tell you how to turn the computer on, turn it off, tell you where everything is. And that was the mindset that I had. So I went in and I worked for Comerica Legal Services for about six months, and then they ended up letting me go because they wanted somebody to work full time. And I didn't really want to work full time. So I continued to do this for about two years, just going from law firm to law firm. And I said, you know what? I'm going to go back to school and get my degree in legal administration. So when I went to school, I went back to Davenport. That's where I was going before I went in. And I took a legal. It was a business legal class, and they were teaching Ohio law. They were giving briefs in Ohio law. And I told the teacher, I'm like, why are you teaching us Ohio? We're in here in Michigan. I said, can I bring some stuff in? So I was allowed to bring some stuff in from the law office. No names or anything. And so she started teaching from that method, needless to say, I didn't really have to come to class anymore. I ended up graduating without really even finishing the course. But I took it upon myself to have the confidence to do it. So for me, that really kind of boosted me. It's like, hey, so now I do have my degree in legal administration, a paralegal, and I'm a notary public as well. But that was just because of, hey, I have the confidence to do it.

Sounds like a little bit of fake it till you make it. And then you're like, wait, wait, wait, I can do this better. Hold on. And they just, like, laid it down. Last year, when we were doing this with wbe, we went out for a reception. It was a fun little trolley. We were on a winning team for trivia. But afterwards, we went to the Bar and Grill and the space wasn't conducive for what we needed. So what we did was we moved those tables around, we made sure that we could all sit together, and it's just like, hold on, we got this. Stand back. So I love that. It's fantastic. Way to go, ladies. Haters. Haterade. People commenting on you, about you, behind you, in front of you. How do you guys handle that? How does your confidence, your sparkle never dull because of that?

So I'm a Care Bear also. So when you talk about haters, I don't necessarily see them as haters. They're flawed humans. We are all flawed humans. And at some point in their life, something went to the left that should have maybe went right, and I evoke something in them that touches or activates that nerve. So when I feel that haterade, come on, I'm going to give you a dose of a hug, because someone didn't give you a hug when you needed a hug. And in the world of Zoom, now I go a step further. Why don't we get together for a virtual coffee? Let's get to know one another. Because you have a story and someone didn't listen to it. And I'm going to be the person that's willing to listen to your story and hold it and hold that space for you. And if you choose to still be a hater after that, you don't exist in my world anymore. I've done all that I've could to allow you to see who I am and meet you where you are. But after that, you just don't exist in my world any longer. But if we show people kindness sometimes, because that hate comes from somewhere and it's ugly and it's internal and you show them what could be, what it looks like to be genuine and to care for someone. You're teaching them a freaking new skill, and hopefully they will not be haters. And if you want to continue to be a hater, I'm just going to rise to the top and just be like, in your face.

There you go.

Right?

That's my ego that comes out. But you let your haters sometimes be your motivators. Right. If they continue to be your. Your haters, you allow them to motivate you to continue to climb to the top.

Yeah.

So I think in our space, right, in the veteran space, there can be a lot of competition. And if anybody knows me, I'm probably the least competitive person when it comes to serving veterans. I'll have folks reach out to me, afraid that I didn't know about something or they didn't loop me into an event about women veterans or, you know, something like that. And I don't.

I don't care.

Like, I. We have plenty of us to go around for everybody to help, right? And so if I can help lift you up, lift up your program, lift up your event, anything that you're doing, like, I, I don't sit in that space and say, this is mine to do. Like, I am your advocate. I am the state women veterans coordinator, and I'm. And I want more of this. Like, this makes my job easier.

Right.

I hope someday there doesn't need to be a me in our space because everybody's events, everybody's going to do their own groups. And, you know, I think that, you know, the way that, you know, Women Veteran Strong operates and the way that, you know, I operate, the way that other folks operate, it's not the same. And that's okay because, you know, maybe the way I run an event isn't the way that other folks identify or they don't want to be a part of that or. And so I just highly encourage that to be you and to go to the groups that you love and do the things that you love. If you love to, you know, do makeup and facials and. Or if you'd like to go hunting and fishing or any of those things in between or all of those things. Like, I think that there's going to be groups for that. And so I don't really pay attention so much to the, to the hate. If there is out there, that's cool. And please give me the feedback, right, that you want something different or that there's something different out there. So that's kind of how I approach it.

I just want to attest to what erica saying. She's 100% right. I don't even know how I met Erica or how we connected, but she's always trying to connect, connect me with someone that can help my organization. So I want to say to you, women, lean on Erica because she's your. She's your, she's your connection. Okay, I got many stories, but let me just go back to one that still resonates with me. When I was modeling, there would be maybe five or six women in the show. Again, I was the only plus size. And for whatever reason, the people who made the clothing, the designers, they would only make enough clothing. It may be a seven scene show. They would only make enough clothing for the plus size model for about three shows. And the skinny models would kind of look at me. I'm not hating on anybody, okay? But they would just kind of like look at me or whatever. And so what I would do is I'd help them get dressed and I would. And I. It didn't matter to me because we're both getting paid the same amount. I don't have to hustle and bustle for all these next scenes. So I did a lot of shows at Macy's when it used to be Hudson's. And there was an a designer, her name was Masuk. And I was the only one that she would let wear her clothes. And she got to the point, she said, you know what? I'm tired of none of these other people that are making clothes not making enough clothes for you to do shows. I'm going to make sure that you have enough clothing to be in every single scene. I don't want you to just be helping the other models. And that really gave me confidence to go out and do more. This is long before Ashley Stewart, Long before any of these stores carried bbw. I was in a magazine called bbw and I was also the plus size modeling director, director at Barbizon School of Models. How many Barbizon models we got here? I know a lot of these little girls and guys went to Barbizon. And I was. This was in 1996. And the only store we had to shop at was Ashley. Was was it Lane Bryant or either Roman's catalog which had elastic and flowers? That was it. There was nothing else for plus size women. So I was in my office one day at Barbizon. I said, you know what? I'm going to write Lane Bryant a letter because I had a Lane Bryant credit card. My mom had one, so of course I was on hers and I wrote them a letter and I said, why is it that we, as plus size women cannot see our clothing in plus size women in the catalogs? This was unheard of. They wrote me a letter back and said, years ago, we put out two catalogs, one with plus size women and one with regular size women with the clothes pinned up on them. And we sold more clothes out of that catalog. I said to them, that's a conflict of interest for me. I cut up my credit card, sent it back, and to this day, I don't shop at Lane Bryant. I was down for the cause. It's like, no, that now. Now there's plus size models everywhere and I'm happy to see it.

Hey, is there anything from you?

I can't follow that. Just about the haters. I love listening to these other women because I see they, they handle things and I love hearing from other women how they do things because it's always very different. Where I always handled the haters as a way to. Of pure motivation. Pure motivation of telling me, I can't do it, I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it better. And so, yeah, and I think just to tackle on to what she said is that, you know, there's enough room for everybody in here to shine in whatever it is. So, you know, know that you guys are strong and intelligent and, you know, you can use the haters for motivation like I do. You can, you can use it like they do, which I think is phenomenal. Understanding their story. I have a lot to learn from them, but there's always enough room for everybody to shine in here.

That's the beautiful part about it, is we get to hear other people's perspective. When I first talked to these ladies, when I asked this question of how do you deal with haters? My initial reaction was, prove them wrong. Do it better. Be better. Rise above them in every aspect you possibly can. And then they're like, no, listen to them. Give them a hug. Learn their perspective. I'm like, that's a great idea. Fantastic idea. Just to take a step back. But I mean, we heard this morning somebody became a fighter pilot because she did it better. So I don't know, gonna still look into it. Give hugs always.

Right?

Hugs are important. Back in the early 2000s, we used to wear shirts that said free hugs. Do you guys remember this? Yeah, it was like a huge thing. And now. Yeah, before COVID now it's like a real thing where you're like, okay, it's not just a saying on a shirt. It's like a genuine thing where you see people in trouble that need help. If you can give a little bit of your light to them, how important it is for them that day. How can or did you ladies transform after a challenging or difficult setback? How did your confidence grow after taking a small turn and what you thought was your path? Do any of you have stories for that or want to touch on that?

So if anybody knows me, I'm a huge advocate for our LGBTQ community. I identify in that community. It's part of me. I served during Don't Ask, Don't Tell. So I served the first year and a half pre and then post don't ask, don't Tell. I was actually being discharged for don't ask, Don't Tell. Getting ready to have an admin discharge. Look at all my, you know, the percentage of benefits that I would get based on the amount of service that I had. And I was a really good Wrench Turner. Like, I was a great mechanic. I had really good relationships in my squadron, connected with all the men in my shop because I was the only woman. And, you know, that was a very life changing moment for me. Like, my plan was to be in the military for a while. I didn't. I wasn't planning on life, you know, going the 20, but, you know, I was in for. For the long haul. And then, you know, having to switch gears and, and think, okay, now what do I do? Right? I joined the Navy so I could go to school, and that was really important to me, to not rely on my parents. And that was something, you know, and I was older when I joined, and so it was, you know, I was waiting, waiting, waiting, doing my job, doing, doing my thing, waiting for the decision, whatever was going to happen. It waited at the wing for, like, a couple of months for whatever was going to happen next. And it was repealed. And no one said a word to me about anything. Never, like, never. Like, okay, you're good. Like, keep going. Like nothing. No conversation about what was next. And so I just kept going. I. I was Wrench Turner of the year in my squadron of 1200 people that year. So, you know, I, like, I said, like, I was really good at it, and I loved it. I loved my job. I love the people I served with. So when I got out, the last thing I wanted to do was identify as a veteran because I wanted to be Erica. I wanted to be me. I wanted to figure out what that looked like, who I was. So I would not identify as a veteran at all. And now I'm in this space, right? And I'm, like, screaming from the rooftops like, we exist. Hey, hey. You know, it's so important to me. And, you know, like, with Andrea and I. Andrea down here, my friend and colleague, you know, we're able to create a training together now for all LGBTQ veterans, for people that are serving veterans, to understand cultural competency, just to be able to serve folks, right? We all served. We all deserve these benefits. We all deserve care, compassion, dignity, respect. And so we're creating the thing that we needed the most, that I needed as a kid growing up in Michigan. Like, we're. We're becoming that. So I was able to turn that into something that I never thought that I would be in this space or this place and, you know, make myself proud and be really proud of that work and to help other folks, too. So.

Like I said, I always have stories. This one is a really important one for me. And she kind of triggered my thinking when she started talking. When I went into. I went in active duty, and I went in just like she did. I wanted to be able to go to school when I got out of high school. My mom's like, nope, not going to the military. You don't know what you're doing. You're going to college. So I went to college. My mom went to the hospital. Never seen her sick a day in my life. She started having seizures, and I went in on a Wednesday. I said, mom, I'm going to join the military. She said, oh, I think you're old enough. You know what you're doing. And I was going to join the Air Force. She was supposed to come home that Friday and that Saturday and Friday night, she passed away. And I felt like the Air Force could not move me fast enough. I was 21. It was going to take them forever to move me. So I went in, went to active duty in the Army. Fast forward to a year and a half later. I'm stationed in Germany, and my grandmother has a stroke. That's my next of kin. My local parentis. I was stationed in Michigan for a while, and after a couple of months, the military said to me, you got two sisters to take care of your grandmother. Get out or go back to Germany. I'm not going back to Germany, so I guess I'll get out. And I went in the reserves. Fast forward to a few more years. I started having issues with my hips and my knees from injuries I sustained in Basic training while I was on active duty. And I decided, I guess I need to go to the va. I didn't have any insurance at that time, and I go to the va. And they told me there was a clause in your contract, because you didn't complete two years of active duty, you cannot come to the va. And I tried and I tried. That was a clause back in 1980. Do you think if they would have told me that I would have stayed? I was lacking maybe four or five months. So during this time I kept trying to get help, senator, 11 senators, everybody tried to help me. Social Security had to end up disabling me at 55 so I could get insurance to get my hips, my one hip, replaced. I was so scared that my right hip was going to get bad. I got it done six weeks later. I did six weeks of physical therapy and got this hip done. It wasn't until I was on Facebook. It's a group called Veterans to Veteran, Vet to Vet, Veteran to Veteran. And I posed the question. I said, why is it that I'm an honorably discharged veteran and I can't go down to the va? Why is it I gave my story. Everybody knows the people in this group are people that are veterans and people that work at different VAs. And there was a gentleman there that worked. He was working at the Georgia va. He said, that sounds like you got on a hardship. He said, give me your information and let me see if I can help you. I gave him my information. He said, that was a hardship. Go, go down. Go back down to the va. Go down the va where every time they see me coming, they're like, oh my God. Do you have your son with you? My son's an Iraqi War veteran. Here we're talking. This is 37 and a half years later. 37 and a half years. I'm like, can you just look on the computer? It was a Friday. It was about 4 o'. Clock. They're like, well, we close at 4:30. Can you come back on Monday to get your ID? That's how they continued to treat me. Here I am years later, totally service connected. Where I'm sitting right now. This is nothing I ever planned. But the reason I started Homes for Heroic Veterans is because I didn't want another veteran to be left behind. I didn't want another veteran to go through what I went through. And that's why I do what I do. So that's, that was my, like, that was my turning moment. And I. Every time I meet a veteran, I'm passionate. I could be in Walmart and see a veteran with a hat on. I go, hey, are you getting your benefits? Are you service connected? Are you? My daughter calls me like the vet, that police, and it's like, yeah, I'm the vet police. Because there's so many veterans, even the ones in the Vietnam War, that, you know, they came back home as baby killers. They don't want to go to the va The VA has such a bad name. And if anybody should have gave up 37 years, it should have been me. But I didn't. And I'm glad I didn't because of the veterans that I'm helping now and the ones that I'm going to help in the future, I'm done. I could go on and on with that one.

You know, it's been said a lot recently, especially online, that the person who are who you are now is who you needed when you were younger. It's that role model, it's that mentor, it's that guidance that you were looking for that you've now stepped into these shoes. And ladies, you exemplify that every which way. And it's incredible. Very. I'm very excited you guys are all here. How does your inner strength help your confidence? How does your inner strength help build your confidence? Has your inner strength ever stumbled a little bit and maybe you picked it back up with like a fake till you make it? Moment passes like, I got a story.

I still do that. Yeah, I still do that at times because I feel like, you know, you don't wake up every day feeling your best. You don't wake up and looking in the mirror, looking your best. Look in the mirror naked. Oh, my God. It's like a freaking nightmare, you know? But I just. I just. This is me. I know that nobody can beat me being my best. Nobody. And that's the attitude that I. I try to get people to take. Nobody can beat you being your best. You are. You. Be yourself, be the best at what you are, whatever that is. I don't care if you're mopping floors, taking out trash, babysitting. Be your best and be confident in what you're doing. So that's what kind of motivates me, is that I know nobody can beat me being my best and authentic.

Authentic self.

Thank you. Yep. That's right.

There's like, I have a nugget right here. Hold on. That's exactly it. It's being our authentic selves. It's being genuine and true to who we are that helps bring out This, I don't know, inner light. What you guys call it, like an inner light? Yeah, yeah. I call it my sparkle. When I have to do things where I'm in public or I have to talk to mostly men, I'm like, yeah, it's my sparkle. You guys notice me walking a room? It's me. Hi. That's. I'm here. This is what I am. This is who I am. And that's. I, I think it's the great thing about me. You can walk into a room and people know who you are, or people can see you and want to come up and talk to you. I don't know about you ladies. Do people just come up and tell you their life story? People who are confident, people who can be picked out of a room, like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna go talk to this person. They get everybody's life story. It's fantastic. How often do people come up and talk to you randomly? They just see you on the street and like, hey, let's have a quick conversation. Kaz is already like, girl, listen.

Like, that's happened to me almost all my life. When I was pregnant, I have 37 year old twins. And when Toys R Us was open, they used to wear the striped shirts, right? And I had like a pink and white striped shirt, like seven months pregnant. Why is somebody walking up to me asking where something is in the store? And so I told the lady, I don't work this. She said, well, you look like you should work her. You're so beautiful. What's your name? And I'm like, lady, I'm just trying to get out of here. My doctor said I shouldn't be on my feet pre eclampsia, but she wanted to talk to me about just whatever. So I, I'm like you. I look at it as my light. I welcome it. I enjoy helping people because I feel like we all have something to share. I am no better than anybody else, but we all have something that we can say that can help the next person. And you don't know what, what people are going through. Like Laverne was talking about with the grieving. We're all grieving something. It could be a death of a relationship. A death of when, when you're done with something, it's still the death of it. And I know that may be harsh. Lavert, you might. To me, it's like, it's the, you know, when you, when you, when your kid goes off to college, it's almost like it's the death of a relationship. So I just feel like my dad used to tell me it doesn't cost a dime to say a kind word to anybody. And I've really took that to heart.

Thing too. Spot on. But people can smell an empathetic person a mile away. And it's also that look that's in your eyes. Erica got me earlier today. We were talking about a past life, and she looked at me and she said, you got burned out, didn't you? I'm like, we're not gonna do this right now, right? Like, you don't even have enough time to give me a whole session, nor do you have the chase to let me lay on to tell you my life story. But there are some people that are just magnets to that, right? And when you're aflame, people attract like moths to your light and to your energy. And if you can give a kind word, you can save a life. Your hug, your sis, you got. This may seem so small to you, but to that other person that's on the receiving end that morning, they may have thought about suicide or contemplated suicide, or maybe at a really low point in their relationship, or just was battered that morning. But your kindness and just you exuding that confidence of being present and holding space for someone external to you can do so much good in another person's life. So when I look in your eyes, right? And that's what happened. You said what you said and I.

Looked in your eyes, and I was.

Right. Because empathetic people, it's all in your eyes and it's this energy that you have. So if you know that you are. If you know that everywhere you go, people want to tell you their life story. I was sitting on the plane yesterday, and at some point I'm like, can I just pull my hoodie down over my face, you know, so that it can stop? And then I'm like, no, because that person needed to share. So I'm going to let you share and share, right? And then at some point, it's like, okay, let's button all that back up. Just make sure you're good. We make sure you have 988. If you need to know what 988 is, I'm going to make sure that you have that. If you're ever in another crisis and we're going to move on, but share your inner strength with other people. And for many of you all, we see it. I mean, I can sit here now and just look at. Look in the audience, and I'm like, oh, I see that. And as Women veterans. So often we choose. We have been invisible for so long, right? We are shrouded by this invisibility. Let your light shine. Show up. Be proud to wear your Michigan Woman veteran pin. And you're a Georgian, but own that, own that because someone else is going to see it and need it.

You know, that's so true. There's this Buddhist saying, and it's one candle can light a thousand more. Right? Your light never dulls because you shared it, so continue to share it. How do you ladies build your own light up when you're not feeling the best.

Music? Get it?

Austria. Yeah, Music is a great motivator, right? Music can change the way you hold yourself, carry yourself. What kind of music is appropriate and not appropriate to play depending on the situation. Right. I teach middle school. There are some songs that I don't want my middle school students to know. I listen to Doja Cat, but with that being said, I make them say affirmations every day. I want them to know at a young age they can build their own confidence. Right. Even if it's just words on the paper for now, you never know when those words are going to strike you or when you need to see them again.

Right?

Because their desks are always messy. So when they're cleaning it out, when I finally tell them at the end of the month, they're like, oh, hey, I did write this. I did say that about myself. What about you ladies? How do you build your own self esteem? How do you guys build yourselves up, up?

I like what she said about, about music. I love music. I grew up around some of the Motown era. My uncle was in a Motown group. And so I sometimes this morning when I'm at home by myself, I'll just sing, I'll make up songs. I love making up songs. I'm pretty good at it. And that, like, motivates me to do it even more. So it, it'll distract me from anything that I may be thinking about or anything that I may have to do. I'll just start like, like. And sometimes I'll say, God, that was a good song yesterday. I should have recorded it or something. But it just, it just gives me confidence to continue to do it sometimes to just get on with my day. A lot of people turn on TV in the morning. I turn the radio on in the morning because after I pray and meditate or whatever, I turn the radio on because I need that positive music on. Yeah.

The TV is never positive. Let's be honest, that news channel is never positive. We don't need that on. Yeah, definitely not.

Can you give us an example of a song that you say?

Noted. Good to know.

I would say I'm probably one of the worst at self care. I think that, you know, helping people takes a lot out of you, right? And you. You do need to fill your cup and sometimes you're so busy all the time that it's. That's really hard. And. And my life is a cabin in the woods and that is being remodeled. And so everywhere I look as a project and sitting behind, you know, a desk, ask for a job. Not all the time, but a lot of the time my work is behind a computer. I crave projects. The, you know, the big world of, like, policy and helping people and all of that is so big. And sometimes you don't always get the result that you want or the, I guess the finality, the completion of that. I love projects. I brought my mechanical ability out of the military into everything that I do. I have the. I'll figure it out. Like, that's, that's. That should be a T shirt slogan for me is I'll figure it out. And I'm probably hyper independent when it comes to that. But I love projects or I love to just go sit in the woods. That's why I live where I live. I can come out and I can do the things that, you know and be social and all that. But I go right back home into that, like, solitude where I need to kind of chill for a while. This next month is really busy. You probably won't hear from me for a little while after that.

Recharge your batteries. Definitely.

Let's say I'm a little more physical in nature. So my way of recharging and building myself back up is through a punching bag or a mountain bike or, you know, taking the dogs out and hiking. But I usually find, like, building myself back up is very physical. And I think for a while people just thought I was really aggressive. Like, I'm not an aggressive person. But like, when I say I have these, like, aggressive tendencies, they kind of like, they're like, you have a. You go home and just punch a punching bag. And I was like, yeah, I hit it a few times and I go inside and like, I feel great and like it's my separation from work, you know, but. But I've carried that my whole life. I played soccer forever. And so, like, that physical piece of it really, really recharges me. And so, you know, you'll see me out on the trails here pretty much every Weekend, because that's how I recharge with the dogs and a bike and like a unicorn. Yeah.

Gotta be out in the forest soaking up the sun.

I like to color. Does anyone else like to color?

Right.

Coloring is my jam. And I've got kids, and my kids know. So in my office, I run my own small consulting firm. I have my desk, and then I have an art desk with probably every Crayola piece that's ever been created. And my kids know, do not touch my crayons, my markers, or colored pencils, because they use it all the way down. There's no point on it. But when I need to recharge during my day, I step away from work, and art is where I pour myself in. I also create. I love hobby lobby. There's hobby lobbies here. I love wood. I love painting wood. I love diamond art. Does anyone know what diamond.

Yes.

What?

My people. I love diamond art. And it takes. If you have challenges with anxiety, tension, diamond art is it. I remember my husband would say, he would joke, he's like, you're never gonna finish that. I'm like, okay, hater, watch this.

I'm gonna finish that.

And it took so much energy, but. But it was so therapeutic at the same time to see this blank. Well, not blank, but this picture on this adhesive slate and have it come alive. And so whenever you have the opportunity to do art, do it. Your playlist. Music is everything to me. Have a wicked playlist in my phone. I love you all. Don't judge me. I love trap music. To Jesus music.

Yes.

Everything in between. And make no apologies for it.

Right?

And so it just depends on where I am in that space in that day. One song that will always play every single day of my life is Beyonce's Run the World. Now, that's going to play every day because we own that space, right? So find the things that work for you to build your self care. And it's not getting your nails done and it's not getting your hair done. That's maintenance. There's a big difference. That's maintenance. Do the things that nurture your soul.

All right, ladies, in your final thoughts, let's go for, like, the last nugget.

If they.

These ladies walk away today with anything, what would it be? What is one thing you want to leave them with?

I'll go. So I think the thing that I want to leave you with is ask for help. That I'm just as guilty as, you know, not taking that advice, which, you know, maybe it's helpful to say it out loud sometimes. But don't be afraid to lean on each other and ask for help.

Yeah.

Thank you.

My biggest thing because I work with a lot of young women too, not veterans, but young women, is to be true to yourself. That is something I was never told as a young girl when I was growing up. You know, you got married, you had your. Everything was lined out for you. So no one ever told me to be true to myself and I feel like I'm doing that now. And I'm my best version of myself. So it doesn't matter what other people say. Whatever your truth is, be true, true to yourself. And above all, don't forget self care. So necessary.

I would say similar in the ask for help, but I would say build each other up, find your community and you know, those are your people that are going to help you shine and you're going to help them shine. And like I kind of mentioned earlier, I think there's room for everybody to do. You know, I think earlier or early in my career, my Air Force career, there was a lot of competition. I've heard that say a few times around here. But now that I'm out and maybe older and wiser and maybe the culture has just changed, I'm not sure, maybe a combination of all that. But I think we're starting to finally form those bonds between the women and help each other build up. And I really like that. So I encourage everybody to keep doing that.

Be a hope dealer when I say hope, share your story, but hear other people's experiences. That's hope.

Wonderful. Thank you ladies for being a part of my community. Thank you so much.

And there you have it. Here's the truth that these women demonstrated. We don't have to choose being loved for who we are and maintaining our high standards. The question isn't when do we get to lower our standards and just be accepted. The question is how do we build social support networks that love us through the hard moments while we maintain who we authentically are? That's what others over self really means. It's about creating communities where ambitious leaders can be both excellent and struggling, both capable and needing support both hardcore and at ease. Next Tuesday, we're closing out 2025 together with our year end reflection, what winning leaders do differently. We're looking at what actually worked this year for us and how we can carry these lessons forward without carrying all that weight. So thank you so much for being part of the social support network. Thank you for showing up even when it's hard. I'LL see you out there, my ambitious leader friend. And please know that you're not alone. I'm host Shelly Rue, and you can count on me every Tuesday. And I'm not alone either. I'm over here counting on my team, leaning heavily on these voices and building this community with you. We'll see you next Tuesday, same time, same mission. And until then, stay hardcore, be at ease and trust the process.

You're listening to Hardcore and at Ease. Keep the conversation going@join.othersoverself.com.