In this episode of The Robots Are Coming, host Ken interviews Professor Shuo Chen, a UC Berkeley alum, general partner at the early‑stage venture fund IOVC, faculty member in the College of Engineering, and member of the California Mental Health Commission. Chen explains IOVC’s focus on pre‑seed and seed startups that shape the future of work, and describes her new university class on that topic. She details her role on the state’s Mental Health Commission, where she leads a $5 million anti‑bullying initiative for high‑schoolers in partnership with the tech nonprofit Media Cause, marking the commission’s first foray into social‑media‑based outreach. The conversation shifts to data privacy, where Chen argues that current Silicon Valley business models rely on selling user data and calls for a re‑thinking toward privacy‑preserving models, citing internal safeguards at companies like Google and the need for AI ethics roles. She introduces Web3 as a paradigm that adds data ownership to the traditional read/write web, explaining how decentralized control could prevent platforms from retaining user data after account deletion. Chen also discusses emerging AI ethics infrastructure, using traffic‑law analogies to illustrate conditional data veils, and highlights a gamified mental‑health startup founded by a Waze co‑founder that leverages habit‑loop design without exposing personal identifiers. Throughout, she emphasizes Gen Z’s heightened concern for privacy, the importance of societal norms in shaping regulation, and encourages listeners to dive deeper into specific topics such as data privacy, mental‑health technology, or AI applications.
Chapters
Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of The Robots Are Coming. And today I will be interviewing Professor Shuo Chen of UC Berkeley. She's a UC Berkeley alum, general partner at IOVC, and an SCET industry fellow. Could you introduce yourself a little bit more, Professor Chen?
Absolutely. Thanks so much for hosting, Ken, and exciting to chat a little bit more about this topic, given this is a lot of what we're talking about in class this semester. So my name is Shuo. I run a venture fund called IOVC. I'm a general partner there. We focus predominantly on investing in very early-stage startups, pre-seed and seed. And these are really the startups that we see as empowering the future of work. And outside of my full-time venture role, I am also on the faculty at UC Berkeley under College of Engineering and been teaching entrepreneurship here for the past decade. And this semester, we're actually launching the very first class focused on future of work, which is quite exciting given that's what I've been investing in for the past 10 years.
Awesome. And outside of class, you also are on the California Mental Health Commission, which works with technology companies like Media Cause to spread the word on anti-bullying resources. Could you tell me a little bit more about the initiatives that you're proposing in California's Mental Health Commission?
Yeah, thank you for asking. So I've had the honor of being appointed to the California Mental Health Commission, which is actually considered a public office role. My specific seat on the commission is appointed directly by the governor, by Governor Gavin Newsom. And I'm one of 16 voting commissioners. We oversee about $10 billion of state budget every year. This includes not just the commission's own budget, but overall budget in the state that go towards anything mental health related. And of course, given that we oversee such a big pool of funding, each of us are kind of chairing and/or heading up our own subcommittees or specific initiatives. I was really brought in to represent entrepreneurs as well as to represent young people, given my faculty role. So as part of the commission, I've been doing a lot of work focused on youth and transition-age youth, as well as how to leverage new technologies in the tech and entrepreneurship world to actually help raise awareness, decrease stigma, and decrease the amount of time one goes from being aware to being able to find the most relevant and helpful resources. So specifically within this role, I actually help head our anti-bullying committee, which focuses on youths, particularly high schoolers. And this is actually the first time that we have an initiative focused on youth and focused on leveraging social media. But believe it or not, prior to this, actually, our innovative project is actually establishing things like new phone lines. So this is truly innovative for us to get into social media. And specifically within this committee, we have About $5 million to start that is launched towards this particular partnership with Media Cause, which is trying to build a social media strategy to raise awareness and decrease stigma around mental health, and specifically focused on anti-bullying initiatives for high schoolers in California.
Awesome. And, and a little comment on that. When I was 15, I worked on in the county office on an anti-bullying platform. So I could definitely relate to what you're doing. And on that, as we rely more and more on technology, it's also critical to consider its moral and ethical implications. I agree that we should curb bullying through the use of technology. But my question to you is, Shuo, to what extent should these technologies be infringing on our rights to privacy?
Yeah, it's a really good question. Ken, you'll remember we talked about this a little bit in class, but I have the fortune of serving on the board of Decode, which which is the largest tech and entrepreneurship nonprofit that's co-hosted between Berkeley and Stanford. And I have some other really amazing people on the board that serve alongside all of us. So I serve on the board alongside the CTO of Microsoft US, the Chief Privacy Officer at Google, and a number of C-suite executives. And of course, you can imagine with another board member like the Chief Privacy Officer, we talk about data privacy all the time. And so I think there's a couple of pieces here. Number one, I think it is important for us to rethink business models. So when we think about how most of the large technology companies are built out of Silicon Valley. Unfortunately, most of the business models are built off of selling information in exchange for free access to services and products. So there's a lot to be said in terms of rethinking about what kind of startups are we investing in now that will form the next generation of corporations and large organizations that no longer survive purely off of selling our data. So of course, that's step one. And then step 2 is thinking about out of the organizations that do sit on a lot of data now, how do we draw the boundary between ethical uses of that data and also safeguarding data privacy. So it's possible that with information that can actually augment our decision-making and make more data services and products available to otherwise underserved populations. For example, prior to us having all this information, we would have relied on traditional sources of data, which would then perpetuate certain unfair lending practices that really prioritize basically older white men, as opposed to with now new sources of data, we can actually see that there are more creditworthy segments such as underrepresented women that we should be lending to now that we have access to these new sources of data. But of course, it's always a double-edged sword, right? We're talking about how do we use this data responsibly? And then on the other side, how do we also safeguard the use of this information so it doesn't infringe upon our privacy? And so Google as an organization, for example, has certain firewalls that are drawn up where, for example, Waymo, their autonomous driving division, is not actually allowed to use data collected from Google Maps to do any research. So that's a really good way of ensuring that information is staying specifically within the product ecosystem that you signed up for. And on top of that, to at least ensure that whatever information is collected is only used on an anonymized basis. So those are all important pieces to think about. But going forward, as we look at the role of even AI automation, other types of technologies, it's so important for us to think about how automation can augment the work that we do. So what are the things that we should be setting up for machines to better optimize and just save our time? And what are the other things that we as humans should be spending more time on, being more thoughtful about? And certainly data privacy, ethics, transparency in AI, those are all some important pieces that We as humans uniquely need to spend time on this.
Yeah, and I definitely agree that we as humans need to spend time on these issues to treat mental health. But I do suspect that thousands of companies, including many mental health companies, are tracking and then selling this personal information about our mental health, our location, our preferences. Are there even more safeguards against that?
Absolutely. So that's actually why a lot of startups are really excited about the Web3 model. So we're actually coincidentally going to be talking a little bit more about that in class today as well. But if we were thinking about Web2 as being able to— well, let me even take a step back. Web1, I mean, very first iteration of Web1 was just about being able to read data. So digitizing things like Yellow Pages. Web2 is what we're used to, which is being able to read and write information. So platforms like Instagram, Facebook, where you can access other people's digitized information, but you can also contribute to it. So Web1 was reading, Web2 was reading and writing, and Web3 is about reading, writing, and owning. So, um, in Web2, for example, Facebook, if you decided to delete your profile, great, you no longer have a Facebook profile, but they still own all the information of whatever you uploaded, right? But the logic behind Web3 is that because you are a node in the ecosystem and you directly own the data that you put onto the platform, that if you choose to delete your profile, then all that information goes with you, and there's no centralized party that own all your information in one place. So we actually go from a Web2 can't— don't do evil, right? Google talks about don't do evil, to a Web3 version of can't do evil, because the ecosystem is set up that you directly own all the information you place online. So there are of course plenty of other ways to safeguard information as well, but that's certainly one of the biggest reasons why Web3 is such a popular topic now.
And Web3 sounds very promising. And in the future of work, Shuo, there will be more of a need for the increased use of technology and by extension, the increased use and need for our data. Is there a line that companies and startups and ethicists can draw? Can there be too much overstep from big tech companies and startups?
Yeah, so actually right now, if you look at underlying LinkedIn data, we'll actually talk about that later as well, but one of the fastest rising jobs in the US is director of AI ethics and policy. We've talked about this before, and if we were to dig into that more, it means that we don't actually have existing infrastructure or foundational pillars to use in this particular space yet. The best example that we have of thinking about data privacy is actually built into our traffic laws. So when we think about traffic right now, cameras actually capture our license plates. But when they capture our license plates, it actually doesn't capture inherent driver information. So the way that traffic laws are set up is that if you're behaving like a good citizen, no other information other than your license plate is captured. However, in the case of bad behavior, what happens is basically this information veil gets pierced and you actually end up going behind the license plate. So the license plate is captured, bad behavior is identified, and then therefore public entities like enforcement agencies like the police force actually now then have the right to then check the data behind the license plate to say, okay, well, Now, beyond the license plate, this is the actual owner of the car. This is their address. This is, you know, their detailed information. So that's a good way of thinking about how we can safeguard some of that information, even in the mental health space. So if you're collecting a lot of information about an individual online, perhaps it's only attached to an online identity where this specific individual is not identified by name, by birthday, by address, or anything that can actually locate them in real life. But when there is bad behavior that is identified, then this information veil gets pierced and you're able to look behind the veil and identify who this bad actor is.
And should government and these technology companies determine who this bad actor is? Because I suspect that privacy still matters because privacy is one of the biggest things that limits government power as well as the power of the private sector. The more someone or an entity knows about us, the more they can have more control over us. And in my view, personal data is essential to so many of our decisions about us, from whether we get a loan, license, or job. It's really important for us. So personal data affects nearly everything. Is there anything that can stop these tech companies, government from exploring ideas outside of our control? What do you think about that?
Yeah, absolutely. This is actually what makes me really optimistic when I look into the future that I think previously people thought that given particularly Gen Z is so used to giving away their data that people wouldn't really care about data privacy anymore and it would just go down the drain. And as a result, we wouldn't have data privacy. But where I feel really optimistic is that Gen Z actually do care about data privacy more so than any generation before. And so it's even having and raising these conversations that then raise awareness and actually help us safeguard. So when we look at regulation, it's never an absolute, right? It's always relative to what social norms are, what we're— what we believe is right. There's no absolute kind of line between black and white, but it's all a matter of degree of implementation. How strict or not do we want to be about a particular topic? So I think it will be actually up to this particular generation to speak up and say, well, what are we comfortable with? What are we not? What are we willing to give away in exchange for better access to products and services? And to what extent are we not okay with that?
And that's definitely a lot to consider for Gen Z, my generation, and the future. And there's still a lot more left we can discuss for the future, but that's all the time we have left. And thank you for coming on to the show, Professor. And thank you again. And do you have any lasting words before I sign off on this podcast?
Yeah, no, well, thank you for hosting this conversation. I certainly encourage everyone who's passionate about this space to identify one area that they want to dig more into. So whether it's data privacy or it's mental health, or perhaps it is even just going deeper on AI and specifically how that is applied to mental health. So for example, I'm on the board of a company that is founded by one of the co-founders of Waze. They're now trying to use best gaming practices to establish better habit loops for people who are struggling with mental health challenges. And I think this is a great example where we're not identifying personal information, but we're seeing how they became behave in a gamified setting and leverage those gamified environments to then incentivize this individual to establish better habit loops for transformative behavior. And I think it's edge cases like those that we need to spend more time thinking about how we draw the line between what data we're willing to offer up and what data needs to be protected. So I certainly encourage everyone that's listening to identify one area that they want to dig deeper on, and the more specific that is, the better. And to follow that on an ongoing basis, because in the end, it's the depth of knowledge in that area that really matters.
Yeah, and I definitely agree. It's the exploitation of a specific area of knowledge that's really important. And again, thank you everyone for listening to this episode of The Robots Are Coming. And next time we'll have more professors like Professor Chen here speaking on the topics of tech regulation and entrepreneurship. So make sure you subscribe to The Robots Are Coming wherever you're listening to. And tell all of your friends to do that as well. And I also, if you want to plug in your podcast as well, Professor, you can talk about that.
Absolutely. Not a podcast, but as part of my work on the board of Decode, we also do regular interviews as well, not limited to me. So really all credit to everyone who runs that platform. But we're also available on YouTube. If you just search the words Decode space Build, you can find all the conversations there.
