You Can Make It Through With R Marin

Hello everybody, welcome to another episode of the Thriving Adoptees podcast. Today I'm delighted to be joined by Roberto, Roberto Moran. Looking forward to our conversation today, Roberto, really looking forward to talking with you.

Uh, absolutely. Hi, Simon, and, uh, thanks for letting me talk with you today.

Yeah, so, um, Roberto is an Italian adoptee, but you were, you were never actually officially Adopted, if I remember rightly, Roberto.

It's exactly, uh, I'm, uh, my mother is foster in law. Uh, she could not adopt me by law, Italian law, because my biological mother didn't really by law left me to be adopted.

Okay. Uh, and, uh, but she, nonetheless, you, you say she's the only mother that you've ever known, right?

My biological mother or my foster mother?

Your foster mother. She's the mother that you've— that you've—

She's my— she's my mother of love. Yes, she's my— she's my mom.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay. And, um, Roberto, as, uh, he's written, uh, you've written an autobiography and it's called Despite It All, I Made It Through. Um, so Why that title, Roberto? What led you to that title?

First of all, if you let me tell you, it's not really— I don't present it like autobiography. I present it like a novel of real life because I did it like this. I didn't want to say a classic autobiography when you say just what's happened. I wanted that then people, when they would read it, they feel like I'm talking with you in front of you. and you come inside my life. This was more important.

Yeah. So what was it about the title? Why did you choose that title to engage with your readers?

I chose this title because in my life, with all what's happened, adopted, abandoned, violence, and many other emotions, I across. I, I, I across even with difficult, but I across every time in this life. And the— I made it through. It's mean then finally, maybe I'm not thriving completely, but because I'm acrossing, I'm thriving every time I across. You know what I mean?

Can you tell me a little bit more, please?

I mean, I had the difficulty in my past. I had the difficulty in my childhood, in my teenager time, and was very hard. But instead of this, to let down everything and don't, don't, uh, don't— sorry about this word, uh, I continue live, I continue believe in it, and, uh, now I'm here and with, uh, with all of my history. Yeah. So, so for me it's like driving somewhere, even if not completely, but part of this. Yes. Yes. Yeah.

And so it's a really big question, but what do you think that has helped you get through these difficulties?

What has helped me? But first of all, I think my foster mother helped me a lot. She really loved me and she's still there, even if she's very old. And even if she lives in USA and I live in France, she always had the phone for me. She always listened to me. And this love, This love of my, of my mom really helped me to across all of my life.

Yeah, yeah. Um, because a lot of people say in, in adoption that love is not enough. They say that love is not enough. But I, I, when I hear that, I think maybe, maybe it's not, but it's a really, it's a really good place to start. And absolutely, why would we Why would we kind of put down, why would we dismiss, why would we say that love isn't important, isn't fundamental for us?

Love is fundamental. Without love, I don't know, in my heart it touches me then what you say, because when I think of my mother, if my mother didn't love me, I could not continue, really. So for me, it's the first step. Love after yes. There is other needs, of course, but without love, these needs became more difficult. Yeah.

So what would, what would those other steps be for you?

Outside the love of my mom, uh, for across all of my problem? Yes. Uh, believe then even if there is moment where you feel alone, even if there is moment you, you say, what's going on? Why, why me? Why? Just say then, life can make surprise. And when you— and in my, in my, even if I had a very hard time, I had a lot of people who at one moment or another was there for me and helped me to, to, to say, okay, Roberto, it was difficult. Okay, Roberto, you suffer, you suffer this one. But you can go ahead if you want, you can. I'm not psychologist, I'm an author, you know, I cannot say something psychology, but I think then in life, even if when it's difficult, you can always find a way to continue and say, okay, today is not good, it's like that, tomorrow it will be good, you know what I mean?

Yeah, so hope for the future.

Absolutely. Hope is more— it's very important. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Um, so you, you, in the description of the, of the novel, um, you say it's a story of survival, uh, a story of resilience.

Yeah.

And a story of hope in the, the, the middle of loss. So that, that hope—

Yes.

Was, was a big enough theme within the novel for it to be mentioned in the blurb, right? In the description on Amazon.

The description of the book are completely talk about what I wanted to say. Then yes, across resilience, strongness, if we can say, but hope. All of my life I have a hope to feel better because unfortunately I'm still sometimes, then feel I cross again and again and again and start again. But this hope helped me to continue. And if you lost hope, no, you need to keep this hope because after all, this hope keeps you in life and gives you strongness. Not everything is easy, but we can do. And if I can say, sorry, Simon, I know I talk a lot. No, no, it's okay. Right. My book helped me a lot.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There's no apologies for talking on this podcast, right? That makes my job a lot easier. If you talking makes it a lot easier because I have to think of less sentences, I have to think of less questions to ask you, right? So it's easier. You're making my job easy. We're doing this on a Monday morning.

Right.

So, um, uh, I don't know if you can hear Roberto chuckling your way, right? Which is, which is great. Um, so, uh, is this, is this hope, this hope of a better tomorrow? What, what does hope mean? What does hope bring to you? How do you define hope?

Well, honestly, it's a good question, uh, and, uh, Maybe because, uh, how to answer this in English? Now you, uh, maybe because I want to believe then finally life will show me then all of this suffer, all of this pain, it was for something and not just to give me pain and suffer. I don't believe that life it's only pain and suffer. It's impossible. I mean, for what in this case? And, uh, I saw in my life some few moments when even if I had pain before, I had happiness. Just maybe if I can say, and maybe this is my error too, then when you have this happiness, you have to understand that you have and enjoy. And don't think about other stuff. Just enjoy this moment. Because after, if you don't enjoy, you regret and you don't enjoy it.

Yeah.

It's a balance, you know?

Yeah. You also say it's a story of resilience. What does resilience mean to you, Roberto?

Resilience, you know my English, but resilience, it's continue even if time is hard, even if you cry, because I cried a lot, believe me, even if you in your mind you say it's What's next? I mean, it's enough, you're tired. And I know that people can be really tired by psychology, by don't believe anymore. I— you have to do, because the day tomorrow, maybe it's not tomorrow, maybe it's one week after, maybe it's one year after, it's sometime it's like that. But if you continue, if you go ahead, life give you, you need to work on it. Nothing is easy. Nothing is easy. Yes, we started bad. I started bad. It's like that. We have the choice or we have set, then we start bad, but we can make it better. So thriving, like you say, or we put the arms down and no, come on, let's go. Let's go. We need it. This is my message to people. This is my yes, we suffer. Yes, we had to across, but you can do it. And if you feel Still, you cannot do it alone. There is a lot of people who are ready to help you.

Yeah, yeah. So you said that, um, that there was a, there was a meaning, there was a reason for this, for this suffering. What, what, what do you think it is for you? What, what, what were the reasons? What were the reasons for your suffering?

What was the reason of my suffering in my life?

You said it must be for something.

Yeah, but myself, I think my first suffer, it was to be abandoned by my, by my real father. But with my books, you know what I discovered that makes me more suffer is then it was— it's complicated by law. I— my foster mother was obligated to, to give me my real mother every Sunday. And so it's mean that you, you have to imagine that every Sunday my, my foster mother, who for me was my mother, bring me to my biological mother just for the Sunday. And, uh, and I was always scared that she will leave me. So I lived all of my childhood with this scare. And, uh, when I wrote my book and I finally, I discovered part of this and I say, now I understand why I react like this, why I'm always scared to be Abandoned. And very important to understand. I don't know, again, I'm not psychologist, but I think when you start to understand why you suffer, you can thrive, you can feel better because you know why. So if you know why, you can work on it. It needs time. Nothing is today or tomorrow, but you can work on it and say, okay, this is my problem. I know why. So let's try to see how I can resolve this, this, this scare. And, uh, because not everybody will do the same, or, uh, and no one did the same.

Yeah. So what else did writing— that, that's a profound insight, right? That's a deep insight for, for, to understand why we do the things that we do, why, why we feel the way that we, we do sometimes. Um, and, and clearly the, the book was instrumental. It was very important in giving you, uh, in, in prompting that insight within you, in, in, um, being, uh, in helping you see, see, uh, helping you see your feelings and helping you understand your feelings.

Yeah.

What else did writing the book help you see?

Uh, the book helped me, um, well, first of all, it reminds me some part of my life of my brain forgot. Because when you, when you wrote, when you start to write, you have some memory, and more you wrote, more my, my brain open. Open his mind and open mind and, oh, but Roberto, you remind this moment. And, oh yes, I remind. So it's, it's helped me to, to open this part I closed like a trauma because I had many trauma. And finally open and discover, wrote, read again and say, oh, okay, it's, it's like that I had. What can I do now? it's the past. I cannot change. You mean, you see what I mean? So it's help, it's help to recover. This is the word. Recover.

So, um, I'm gonna ask, I, I heard this, I heard this quote by a psychologist called, called Jung, and it seems to be, it seems to kind of sum up, in my opinion, it sums up what you're, what you're saying. So I'd like to repeat that, uh, that quote to you and just ask you if you think that that is— if the quote is accurate. So Jung said, um, until we make this, the subconscious conscious, it will rule our— it will rule our lives And we will call it fate. Um, yeah, until we make the subconscious conscious, it will rule our lives and we will call it fate.

So I think I understand what you say. Uh, subconscious, and when you are conscious, if you find what you have in your subconscious and it became conscious in this case, you can, uh, I don't know if afford is the right word, but you can live it more better.

Yes. Yeah. So because what that, that's what came to me is, is that you, you weren't to, because of the trauma, um, the trauma had, had closed your memory, writing your memory opened, opened the doors. Sorry, writing the book opened the doors to your memory. You became aware of them. Uh, so for example, you, you, you became aware of why you sometimes feel the way that you do and why you react the way that you do. And then once it's out into the open, once our memories are out into the open, we've got a better chance of a a better, a better future.

Yeah, I agree completely with you. It's for this that I told you before, then wrote the book. It's part of thriving finally for me. It's given me chance to understand better my past, to accept better my past. And the fact to accept better my past, it's give me more chance for the future to don't do the always the same error. Yeah, because it's subconscious, and subconscious is not fate. It's—

yeah, that's— that stops it being fate. That stops it running our lives.

Yeah, not completely. I can't— I will not be honest if I say I completely recovered, uh, Simon. It will not be honest. I'm not completely recovered because many trauma, because many difficult times, because even now difficult, but okay. But it helps. Yeah. What it helps, it can give you the strongness to make it all across and, uh, make less error too. It helps. Yeah.

So maybe instead of saying it stops, it stops you, it reduces the amount of time that we are living from our unconscious. Yeah. So somebody interviewed, interviewed me yesterday, uh, and I said, well, uh, hopefully, hopefully I'm, I'm less of a jerk as I learn more about myself. I'm less of a jerk.

Yeah.

But that doesn't mean I'm— that doesn't mean— that doesn't stop me sometimes being a jerk. Right. This is me. Yeah.

I think I understand.

Yeah. So I'm, I'm, I'm saying that this, this is our, this is our, uh, our life's quest is to, um, it, it is to learn to, to function better in the world.

Yeah, I think so. We need to, we, we all, Outside the fact that, for me, we always learn something.

Yeah.

Every time. But if we learn how we work inside in the brain, we can make our life more, more better. I don't say that life, it's always easy, it's impossible. But if we think other way, we, we live better. Yeah, yeah.

So was that why you wrote the book?

For many stuff. First of all, it was a long time ago I wanted to write my book, to be honest. Uh, I just wasn't ready after all. And, uh, finally my book is out because I was ready. And, uh, I was so much ready, then when I finished the first one, I wanted to to continue the second and even the third now, to be honest. Uh, now for now I make pause and we will see after. I want— I wanted to make all of— to wrote all of my life and I'm doing, and for this I'm happy. After, when I wrote the first, I read again, again and say people Roberto, you know that a lot of people suffer, maybe not exactly like you, different way, but they need help. Maybe your book will give them hope, you know, the hope that we talked before. This is, this is why I say, okay, let's, uh, let's pass, let's give my message to other people.

Yeah, yeah. And it's incredible, right? So listeners, Roberto's written this. You wrote it, presumably you wrote it in Italian first, but you've also translated it into English.

No, I wrote, uh, it's very funny because I wrote first in French.

You wrote it first in French. Okay, right.

Yeah, after in English, after in Spanish, and I don't know why I had some little difficult to, to do it in Italian, maybe because it touched me more. but finally in Italian too.

Right. This is an incredible effort, Roberto. Not everybody goes to this effort.

I don't know, Simon. I wanted. It was my dream. My mom always scared that I dream too much, you know, because she want to protect me. This is wonderful. Even now she want to protect me. You can imagine. My life, if I don't dream, it's not life. I mean, I need a dream. I need to accomplish at least one dream in my life. And this is my accomplishment. This is mine. When I say, okay, this I know, then what I wrote, even if maybe not a lot of people will read, I don't know. This is, I don't know.

This is—

This is your legacy. future, but they will be there. My children read my book. My children read my book. So my children know better my life now and know even maybe better why I did something wrong. It doesn't— I will never say, oh, my error is because of my past, because I'm adult and I need to— how do you say— assume. Um, I don't know this word. I will not block on it.

Assume.

my responsibility. It's my responsibility if I do some error. But in my book, what I wrote explain somewhere why I did it. I don't say, in any case, when I wrote, I don't make any pity. I didn't want pity. And I don't make any— people bad or aggressive. I just wanted— if you want, I just wanted to explain what's happened and say to people, you see, this is my life. I'm telling to you my life like a novel. You hear me and you will have your point of view.

Yeah. So, um, are there any particular points that you changed You know, when, when this, this isn't an autobiography, it's a novel. So were there any particular points that you changed between, between the two?

For me, it was important then when people will, will read, we don't feel then, for example, Roberto born in this town this year. Roberto was adopted in this year. No, I bring the, the, the person who will read.

Yeah.

I, I bring down and say, okay, now you are in this town. I give you the description of the town. I give you the description of the hotel— the hospital, sorry. Hotel. I give you the description of my little, uh, Uh, house when I, when my, my foster mother take me. Uh, I, I give you the what we talk sometimes for give more impression than you are living inside this life. Uh, this is a novel, give some possible to the people who read to feel then they are not just read the a date, a date, a date, a date. You see what I mean? They read a history. This is why I call novel by real history. This is the big difference for me. And I have some, if I can say, some return for people who read because—

Yeah.

I have, thanks God, I have people who read my message and say, wow, we have the impression that you are talking in front of us and your history are so emotional, and it touched me a lot because it's the truth. It's what I wanted. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

What, what are the key messages that you want the audience to take from the book, the novel?

Then, despite it all, you will make the vote. The title. Yes, I think there is nothing more to say. The title. Yeah. I believe in it.

Yes, yeah, clearly, yeah. And you put all this energy into writing this book and translating it into—

A lot of energy, Simon, but I don't ever— even if I have to be honest, actually it's difficult, but I have no regret.

Is there anything else that you want to share, Roberto, that I've not asked you about?

Honestly, I think we talked about everything in large, of course. Just wanted to pass, if people listen to us, to pass them a message. Don't believe in hope, believe in love, believe in your life even if it's actually difficult, and then I understand you a lot. Believe, then something will change because it will change. It will do. Even if you need to wait maybe more time than you need, than you think you need, but something will change and you will see, you will be happy. Yeah. I hope so. Of course, I hope for all people.

Thank you, Roberto. Thank you, listeners. And we'll speak to you again very soon. Take care.

Bye-bye.

Bye.