Pop Star Ava Max on the Real Story Behind “Sweet But Psycho” and Why She Left The Spotlight

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I remember that moment and I'm just like, I never want to deal with this ever again.

Today we're joined by global pop star Ava Max. From growing up in a first generation immigrant household to topping charts in over 20 countries with hits like Sweet Bit Psycho and Kings and Queens, Ava's music has been streamed over 70 billion times.

Every day I fight for my career. I want to do this on my own. But that's where I got in trouble because I didn't have anyone there to protect me in those rooms. Hi, I'm Ava Max and welcome to the Burnouts.

Ava Max, welcome to the Burnouts. You convinced your family to move to LA twice. All these incredible chance encounters. Tell us about your beginnings.

My parents are super supportive. They're. They're 100% Albanian, but I was born in the States. My brother was also born in Albania.

And then how did you convince them to go to LA with you?

There was not much convincing. I mean, my mom was always so supportive. She's such a firecracker. I get my boldness from her and her strength. She's just like not afraid to start over. I was 14 and she took me out of eighth grade. Didn't even let me graduate. She's like, we're homeschooling you. She's like, we're going to la. There's nothing left for you in Virginia. And if you want to sing, we got to start now. I'm like, okay. I'm like, that's great. And I had been doing so many singing competitions in Florida because we'd been driving down to Florida. That started with all that. And I just love to perform. Always behind the curtain, I was so nervous. But anytime I like Right when I hit the stage, it like felt like I like grew wings. So I knew it was like what I was meant to do.

You guys ended up leaving LA once, right? And then going back. Can you walk me through that?

Yeah. So we stayed in LA for the first time when I was 14. Right. For a year. No one wanted to sign a 14 year old girl because you know what, what are you gonna do? Right? What am I gonna do? Go on tour by myself? No. So they're like, come back when you're like 18. And that's what we did. But we ended up in South Carolina. South Cackalacky is what I used to call it. So for two years, which is really fun. Although at the time I didn't love it as much because I had to make new friends and it was high school time, so it was very difficult. Those years were really hard for me. Like 16, 15, really hard for me. Yeah. But I learned to like stand up for myself, which is very important I think, for when you get older because you gotta do that in your career, you know, you. I'm fighting to this day, every day I fight for my career and I think that's what a lot of people don't know about me. They're just like, oh, she just like got handed everything. She's an industry plan. That's what I read online. And I'm just like, that couldn't be farthest from the truth.

So you moved to LA again. And tell us about those early days of trying to meet the right people in the industry. What did that look like?

I mean, I'll start at 17. When I came back to LA, it was tough. I couldn't meet anyone really. It was just.

Friend of a friend of a friend that would maybe hook me up for a studio session, but then I wouldn't get my drives back. And it was really hard being a female actually in the industry growing up because you know, you get hit on and it's just really uncomfortable. And then I would just be like staying in the studio for as long as I could to finish the record, but then I'm like, I felt uncomfortable so I left. So I couldn't stay for too long. So it was just like, it was a back and forth a lot and I just, I didn't feel like I could really grow when I got here until I met some collaborators and then I, I got signed and then I got really lucky to find my tribe at the time. And that's when I started really becoming me. Ava, Max. That's when I started becoming, like, the version of me that I feel like I was always looking for growing up. But I'm always evolving, so everyone's always evolving. It's not always just like a. Okay, end period, you're done. It's like I'm. I feel like I'm constantly growing and learning and.

How long was it the second time you moved to LA? Until you get signed?

Got signed at 22. So, yeah, about like five years, which felt like forever.

Yeah, I could imagine. Especially if you're hustling, you're dealing with, like, sexual harassment, and that's really intense. I imagine that a lot of the friends that you have from that period of time are still people you're super close with.

Oh, yeah. I have a girlfriend. She's my best friend of 12 years. I met her outside of a Sephora. My fans know her, Tasha. We love her. She's my bestie. She's like a sister. But she saved me from a lot of situations. Like, I was locked in a room by a producer when I was 20 years old and he called my tears crocodile tears. I don't think I've ever said that to anyone in public. I remember that moment and I'm just like, I never want to deal with this ever again. And I just kind of. I kind of got into, like a little hermit mode and got really sad that year, I remember. And then. And then I started meeting the right people a year later. But I. I almost quit at 20, for sure.

Do you think it's systemic, this kind of abuse of talent within la, or do you think it's more that these were experiences where you like particularly, there was a predator who took advantage because you were young?

I think it's gotten better, but I don't know. I don't know for sure, but it seems like it's gotten better. But when I was trying to make was really hard. It was really hard to make music with people because they all wanted to either sleep with me or just. Yeah, either sleep with me or just, like, do bad things. And I just felt uncomfortable. I mean, imagine being a teenager girl in la, going around alone, trying to meet people. I mean, not everyone's gonna be nice.

Walk me through your sign your first record deal. What does that look like? Who helped you read that first contract?

Oh, yeah. For my record label. I ended up with a really great lawyer at the time. Before that, I didn't have any lawyers, obviously, so I didn't really know. I mean.

I got lucky. I'm gonna say I got lucky with Everyone I've been working with, because they really helped me and saved me from a bad time when I was younger.

And you moved to LA with your brother, right? Was he acting as your manager? How did he feel about everything?

It was my whole family, not just my brother. And he really helped me connect with the right people after some bad trials on my own. Because I'm such, like, an independent person. I just don't want anyone to help me and that, including my brother. I'm just like, I want to meet the people on my own. I want to feel like, you know, I want to do this on my own. But that's where I got in trouble, you know, because I didn't have anyone there to protect me in those rooms. So then I just started getting even closer with my family, which was the best thing I could do.

And tell us about the process. What led to you being signed? Was there a breakout moment or a single that you think really helped to put that in. In place?

I started putting songs on SoundCloud and that's how I got noticed. So Atlantic Records took notice, and Mike Karen APG took notice. And so we kind of did like a joint deal at the time. And Sweet But Psycho was born after that, and it took about a year for it to be released.

But before Sweet But Psycho blew up, how many demos or songs had you written or recorded?

Hundreds. I mean, I was in the studio twice. Two different studio sessions every single day. I was in a boot camp, I like to say. I was in a complete boot camp for a year and a half almost before Sweet But Psycho came out, actually. And I was working my butt off. I remember I was so tired, I would spend nights crying because I was just like, I don't know, like, I'm making so much different music. I don't know like, what the right lane is. I was losing my mind. I mean, some people at the label were saying they like some songs, and then they weren't, like, agreeing some other people. And so I was just like, I don't even like this. I want to do this type of music. But then they didn't like the type of music I wanted to do. So it was very confusing. And it was a really hard time as well. And then I cut my hair. I made it into the Max Cat. And I remember walking into a party and everybody was just like, whoa, who's that girl? And that's when I remember the head of my publishing company was, like, looking at me, kind of like, almost like, hey, I think you're ready. Now you created also not only a great record, stupid Psycho, but an identity now that I can. I could see you in a crowd room full of people.

And when Sweet but Psycho starts climbing the charts, was there ever a moment internally where you were like, wow, my life has changed now?

Oh, yeah. Being in Europe for the first time, I had never been out of the US and. And it was just such a whirlwind and was going number one in so many different Nordic countries, and then London, and then every other country, Australia and Asia, and it took the world by storm. And I was just like, this is everything I've ever dreamt about. But it almost feels like I'm dreaming still, you know, because it doesn't feel real. It happens so fast. And here's a story I haven't told anyone, actually. I can't believe I'm saying this.

I hemorrhaged my vocal cords. They exploded. The day before, I was supposed to travel to Europe for promo tour for Sweet But Psycho. While Sweet But Psycho was number one all over the world, my vocal cords exploded. And the label didn't know. No one knew. I told them I had strep throat, the flu, anything to get out of this or give me two more weeks to go to Europe. For two weeks, I slept, like, 14 hours a day. I had, like, barely any food. And I went back to the doctor a week and a half later, and the doctor is like, I've never seen a miracle like this. But your vocal cords just grew back. Brand new, but baby vocal cords. And he's like, you have to be so careful because they can explode again. And I was going on a promo tour, going to promote and sing Sweet with Psycho all over the world. So the first year singing Sweet with Psycho, I look back at the videos and it's just like me learning how to sing again with new vocal cords, and no one knows.

Oh, my God, that's crazy. And was there anything else on the tour that you had to deal with?

It was very difficult. I mean, I was terrified. Every time I opened my mouth to sing. I was so scared. I was having ptsd. I was having, like, oh, my God, am I gonna not be able to sing again? Because, I mean, I couldn't even make one sound for a week. I don't even know how they grew back.

It's like you're sacrificing all of yourself.

For this tour, for this moment, and then just no vocal cords. It's. I mean, it was such a nightmare at the time. I almost couldn't believe it. My family, everybody, we were all crying in the room, were like, this is insane, girl.

Someone gave you the evil eye. That is crazy.

That's interesting. You said that. I wear a little.

Okay, good. I'm glad.

I always joke, I'm like, you know, I have so many people who love me, but I also have some people who, you know, probably don't wish well upon me because things like that I feel like don't just happen. It's an energy. I feel like people are all we're made up of energy and I think we need to protect our energy. And I've gotten really good at that.

Now.

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I want to walk back to when you made this decision to cut your hair into your iconic signature style. And also the process behind changing your stage name to Ava Max. What did this rebrand look like?

I mean, it felt like me, I always growing up want my cake and I want to have it and eat it too, right? So I feel like the haircut really resembles my personality. I love duality. I love having just having it all, you know, I believe everybody can have it all. I don't think you have to compromise in life. We live one life and I think we need to live it to its fullest. And I also think that's why I made it in music, because I just. I'm. I'm never giving up. I'm consistent. And as much as I've been knocked down, I get back up. I don't think people remember your losses. They remember your wins. I think that's something to remember when you're not doing good or anyone not doing too well in their career, you're going to get back up. You just got to keep going. As cheesy as that sounds, pop is always changing.

How do you decide when to adapt to the trends or to try to start your own trend?

To be honest, I really don't care about trends, as crazy as that sounds. Is that horrible?

No, that's good.

I don't care about trends. Maybe I should. Maybe I should not have the max cut. Right? But in reality, you know, I'm just gonna do it anyways.

I. I love it. Yeah. No, literally, it.

Literally it. Hashtag it, all your it.

Wait. And the other thing I was curious about is I had seen a lot of articles of people comparing you to other artists and things.

Yeah, that's okay.

Yeah.

Like, obviously.

Like, how do you deal with stuff like that?

I think it's weird. I'm just like, why do people still compare in 2025? Like, it's so dumb. And they compare women mostly, which. I know a lot of people have talked about this, but it's true. I don't remember the last time they compared a guy.

True.

Okay, should I have been born with balls or something? Oh, my God. My South Carolina accent likes to come out sometimes. Okay, back to me.

I want to also understand, what does the process behind making a hit so single look like? I know nothing about music. So how do you come up with it? How do you record it?

Every. Every song is different. Some songs can get done in, like, two hours. Like, Loving Myself. I wrote that in, like, two hours. Sweet. But Psycho took a few months of rewriting and rewriting. Kings and Queens took almost a year of rewrites. I mean, we've had so many versions of Kings and Queens. And then the last version, everybody was like, damn, this sounds like a hit. Sounds insane. I can't stop replaying this. It makes me feel so good. And we're like, that's it.

So.

So, you know, it's like a feeling you get. And I love making pop music. I feel like I'm just, like, constantly, like, tweaking the vocals up until the very few days before its Release. I'm insane about that stuff.

How did you figure out what your signature sound was?

I think around not yout Barbie Girl, right before Sweet but Psycho, I was like, wow, I love this punchy feeling. I love female empowerment. I love standing up for myself, and I love how it makes my friends feel. I like how it makes me feel. And I knew female empowerment was a very important message I wanted to give out with my music. And then it started becoming a theme because. And it was so natural because I. I come from a very strong woman. My mom and her mom and my dad's mom. And I feel like I was raised by strong women. So it was very easy for me to write about being strong and sticking up for yourself.

You write your own songs, right? So how do you come up with the original inspiration and then what's the process of writing like?

I work with a ton of collaborators, different producers, different songwriters. Especially for this album, I. I got in the studio with a lot of new people, which was very hard for me. I was so emotional in the beginning because I was working with a few collaborators that were like. Essentially, they were my tribe, right? So, like, they were. They were with me through the beginning, until the end of the second album. And then all of a sudden, I mean.

I mean, the Internet knows what happens, and there was some drama and some betrayal and heartbreak, and I had to separate myself from these people.

And I had to find my new tribe. And so there's a lot of trials and tribulations. Starting the third album, it was very emotional. It was hard for me to go even into a studio without crying because I felt so alone, but it made me stronger. And I think this happened for a reason, because now I'm standing on my own two feet, stronger than ever. And I'm very grateful for that.

I'm sure that especially in the music industry, it's so hard to navigate and to know who you should trust and who your closest collaborators can be. What was the process like of finding the new people that you ended up producing this album with?

A lot of them are my friends now, but I met them through management, through label. I. I really feel like it's a vibe, right? When you get in a studio, it needs to be there. That. That excitement, that conversation. Sometimes we talk for two hours before even writing a song, and. And we start talking, like, for instance, loving Myself. I'm just like. At the time, I was just so alone, and I'm just like, love. I told them I'm just loving myself at the moment. And everybody was like, that's really what we should write about. And I looked at them, I'm like, it's a little weird to write about myself. But then I remembered. I'm like, wait, other people are gonna be singing this about themselves? So this is such an important message, and it's one of my favorite songs now.

It's one of my. I love that song.

Thank you. Thank you so much.

And I want to know so many, especially young women listen to your music. It's really empowering. I know. I loved it when I was listening, especially when I first heard you on TikTok. What does the promotion cycle look like for songs like this? What do you think contributed to this huge rise of virality that you experienced after Sweep with Psycho?

I think I've always made it about the music, always. And a lot of people are always saying, oh, but her brand sometimes doesn't connect with her music. And I think the reason why is because I have been a studio hermit for years, and I just focused on the. The lyrics and the melodies and my performances, and that's it. I wasn't even thinking about, oh, the fame aspect, the. The pap moments. It's like, I don't want all that. And I think it's apparent people know that now. They're just like, you know, I see comments all the time. They're just like, ava doesn't even care to go out and promote her music. And I'm just like, I do. I want to perform. I love performing. I cannot wait to go on tour. I love doing interviews. I love telling people my story. But being seen constantly is. Is not really my thing. And I think it's important for me to say that on here because I. I see a lot of comments about it. Sweet. But Psycho was huge at the time. And the reason why I think it was huge was because I remember being on New Music Friday. It was the only pop song at the time. It was the only pop song. So it stood out on New Music Friday. And. And. And that goes to show how uniqueness and just originality is so important.

That was also around the same time that Tick Tock actually became such a big cultural phenomenon, right with the pandemic and everything.

Right after Sweet. But Psycho, and it was 2019 is when I was doing the big promo Tour. And then 2020 lockdown, and then Kings and Queens came out. Who's laughing now? Kings and Queens was number one on Hot AC Radio forever. And I find that bizarre because everybody was in lockdown. I'm like, how did that happen? And so when that happened, after Stupid Psycho, having another hit right after, I was like, wow. I. I just, like, I'm. I'm so grateful that people can connect to the music I'm making. And I just kept making music like that. Female empowerment records. And I think having music that's uplifting is so important in this day and age. I make sad songs occasionally, but I like more uplifting music. It makes me feel better too.

But it sounds like what I'm hearing, like for you, making the music is. Is quite energizing, right? You have some of these moments where it is draining when people don't believe in you. When you're in the studio until super late at night now, it sounds like the music you're making fills you with energy. But the being in public all the time, having the demand of being the brand 247 and this kind of character you've built, that sounds rather exhausting. I know you've delayed your tour this year. Can you walk us through that decision? What is it like just mentally to be on tour?

Being on tour is one of the hardest things, but most rewarding things. And I think that's the best way I can describe it because I remember my last tour in 2023. I was so nervous. It was my first tour, but then it was, you know, I get there, it's sold out. Everybody's just like, singing back the lyrics that I wrote and like, it makes me emotional to talk about because it's such an experience that I don't. I don't. I don't even know if there's words to say how I feel on stage. It's just, you're connected to so many people and you feel everyone's wavelength, and it's just. It's a beautiful connection with humans, you know, And I. I love that. And then to postpone the tour was a big decision. I didn't want to do it. I had to do it because I want to give a great show. And I switched management mid album launch and I. And I just didn't feel like it was right to keep going with the tour when I knew it wasn't going to be the tour that my fans deserve. It is postponed. It's not canceled. It will happen. And I'm going to announce. Announce something before the end of the year.

That's super exciting. Can you walk me through? I'm a complete novice. What does planning a tour look like?

Oh, my goodness. There's so many different parts. I mean, first of all, I love my team that I was with last tour. They're incredible. They're so much fun. I'm definitely gonna tour with them again. Planning a tour, a lot of rehearsal. A month and a half of rehearsal, sometimes two months. This next tour, I'll probably do like two months and a half. It's gonna be a longer set, a lot of more songs, new album. And I think for me, I. I feel like you said this before we started. It's like being an athlete, right?

Yeah.

And I just like kind of put two and two together recently because I was never a fitness person. Like I would just perform or like work out a little here and there. I have started working out every single day and. And it's because I want to give the greatest show next time I perform. And so I'm like, I'm taking it very serious this next tour because I postponed it, you know, and I feel so bad about that. And I know the fans were looking forward to it. So the tour coming up is going to be very, very exciting.

Do you go to other artists shows? Do you get inspiration from like, oh, I like how they did this. I like that.

Oh my God, of course. Love Sabrina Carpenter. I love Billie Eilish's tour. I mean there's just so many artists right now that are killing it. Female artists are killing it right now. I have to say that.

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For this podcast. A lot of people listen who want to get inspiration from other people who've made it in an industry that they're really excited about. And for you, is there any specific advice you would give to other young women who want to break into singing, songwriting, the entertainment industry?

Everyone has their own path. Don't ever compare. And I learned that later on in life. I wish I knew this earlier. Everyone has their own path. Everyone has a different destiny. Everyone has a different timing. You just have to be consistent and you have to know. You have to know your why. Why are you doing this? It can't just be for fame because then it won't work and it won't happen. It has to be for a purpose. A real bigger purpose. Bigger than yourself almost.

What does navigating management and a label look like? Walk us through the business side of the music industry.

That's always tricky because I, I know a lot of people always ask me that. I, you know, I, I'm very music focused, I'm very music led. I love my team right now, but at the end of the day I'm just like, I let people do, you know, their job. I'm not gonna, I don't try and interfere too much, but I do stay on top of everything. I am extremely hands on.

What does a team look like for a music artist?

Management, label, publishing lawyers, business management, I mean, tour manager, assistants. There is so much. It takes a village. And I'm not even exaggerating, takes this entire country.

It feels like, how do you go through the process of finding all of those different people? Like, how did you find your publicist, etc.

Kismet. Because when you meet them, you know if it's right or wrong. I feel like I have a good sense of energy. So I've stayed with my lawyers from the beginning. I've, you know, a lot of people that I've working with like that are my core. Core. I've known for a long time just management. I re. I recently switched and I think change is good. It's a snake year, right? It's about shedding.

It is about shedding this year and you've said now for this next chapter, you're experimenting with a different sound. How many songs have you written? What can fans expect?

Yeah, so I'm already starting the fourth album. I know the third album just dropped, but I'm very excited. I'm starting it in September and there may or may not be a deluxe for don't click play. That's all I'm saying.

I also want to know for social Media specifically, is there a specific marketing strategy or distribution strategy that you would attribute to a lot of the success of your hit songs?

You know, I don't even think about it like that. I put out a song now and I'm not thinking, oh, it's I hope it goes number one. I'm just saying, like, okay, I really love this song and I'm going to put it out and if it, it resonates, it resonates. But if it doesn't, I have a lot more music. I make a lot of pop songs and they will always get music for me because I just. That's like my bread and butter making pop music.

Yeah. Now that totally makes sense because I was always really fascinated by Lil Nas X, talking about all his hacks and his strategies for making his music go viral on Tick Tock. So that's why I was curious because you've done over 40 billion streams on TikTok. Was there anything specifically you feel like you did that helped to propel the rise?

When TikTok came out, I started posting right away because it was really fun and new and we all were really excited. Not your barber girl did really big numbers even before Sweet but Psycho was out. So I almost already had a fan base before Sweet but psycho. Through TikTok it had over 1.4 billion. Billion or million? I don't million videos. I think yeah, I, I gotta check the numbers. But something crazy and this was all before Sweet but Psycho, not your Barbie Girl got so big because it's the interpolation of the original Barbie girl. So people already knew it. But I added, you know, an empowering twist to it. I also that's one of my favorite songs to perform live, FYI.

How did you use Tick Tock? So were you posting your own videos, dancing to your song or how did you leverage the platform?

I just was doing things I like dancing, singing, just doing the. Some of the trends when they first came out, like during lockdown. But I was having fun with it. I was again, I wasn't thinking about the numbers. You can have fun with it when you don't have fun with it. People can feel it, I think. And it's just not just don't even just disappear like I did the last two months. I disappeared.

Why did you decide to take a step back?

I feel like I felt this overwhelming pressure and I didn't feel right at the moment posting. I didn't want to put out.

An energy I wasn't proud of. So I had to take a step back for A lot of reasons. My mental health, my sanity, and to recalibrate what I want to do next and really be strategic this time, because I'm in a place in my life where I again, I'm protecting my energy, and I want to still keep it about the music. I don't want to get distracted. And when there's too many opinions, you can get distracted no matter how strong you are. So that's normal. But I think you need to really have some alone time and meditate on it, take some walks on your own. It's really healthy for the next five years.

If you were to look at, you know, where Ava Mack will be or where you want to take the brand, what do you envision?

I'm envisioning performing for a lot. A lot of people. My dream is a stadium tour, of course, and just giving back. I want to, you know, open up some charities. I have so many things I want to do. I mean, I'm just scratching the surface. I am in the midst of writing, producing, and directing a TV show at the moment that I haven't told anyone up until now. So I'm trying to, like, you know, I get bored even if I have an hour on my hands. I'm like, okay, what else can I do? So now I'm kind of just, like, opening up Pandora's box a little bit, having some fun.

What advice would you give to other artists of how to find their signature brand sound, style? Because I think you've done such an amazing job with that.

Do what's comfortable to you, even if it's weird. Like, a lot of people think my haircut's weird. I love it. And look, it might not be forever. It might be here and there, but I want to wear it when I want to wear it, and that's up to me. And it's up to you what you want to do. I don't think you should listen to anyone about style. That comes from the heart. That comes from, like, who you truly are inside. And. And you don't have to go with trends all the time. I mean, trends are fun sometimes, but I think you creating a trend and you being front and center of something is even more special. And if it resonates with you, it resonates with you, you know, and you've.

Said you were often underestimated early on in your career. Was there a specific moment where someone said no to you, where you feel like you were really able to prove them wrong?

Oh, all the time, girl. Every day. Every day. Yeah. No. So I I've had it. You know, it hasn't been easy. I'm gonna say that. It hasn't been, like, on a silver platter. Nothing's been on a silver platter for me. It's been so difficult. I mean, since I was a young kid. My parents are Albanian immigrants, so you can only imagine. They. They didn't know anyone. I mean, I had. They were just like, hey, girl, you can sing really good. We're. We're gonna support you. And I'm like, but that also is priceless. So I feel so grateful to have that, because, you know, having supportive parents are just. Just. It's just such a blessing. So I'm never, ever going to take that for granted. And it made me who I am now and a fighter. So I think at the end of the day, I just want people to know that you have to fight for what you want, no matter where you come from, honestly. Because there's always going to be challenges. It doesn't matter where you come from. Nothing comes easy. It just doesn't. And when you see someone doing well or even being talked about.

They'Re fighting for it.

For people who might not be familiar, what does the economic side of. Of music look like? So how does an artist get paid? Is it from the streams? Is it from endorsements?

I mean, there's different things, like. And like you said, endorsements. There's tour, there's streaming money, there's performances. All performances obviously pay. But I think, yeah, it comes in different. Different things. Yeah.

And was there ever a moment where you felt like you had made it and that you had achieved your dreams?

Definitely. When Sweet but Psycho went wild.

You are so successful, so famous. I want to know, for your parents who believed in you, who took that leap of faith, how do they feel about everything?

They've always wanted me to be happy, but I think now more than ever, they want me to be. They. That's like, their number one thing. They just want me to be happy. And I told them I'm happy when I perform, so I cannot wait to announce a new tour.

Your album just dropped on Friday. Congratulations. Tell us more about Don't Click Play.

Oh, so Don't Click Play is one of my favorite albums that I've done because it was an album that I created during the midst of, like, a lot of heartbreak and betrayal and sadness and also then a lot of happiness. I started this album in late 2023 when I was going through all the sadness, and I made probably, like, 30 sad songs. Like, they were good Sad songs, but they were sad. And I was just like, I don't. And then 2024 came along, and I was like, I don't want to make this album all sad just because I went through a moment in my life that tore me up. It's like, I. That's not who I am fully. That's just a moment. And so I made it a moment. And so there's two songs on the album that are more on the sad side and everything else is more empowering because that's really what I love to do, and I didn't want to lose sight of that. So this album is very special to me because it has a different. Different types of emotions. Each song is. You know, someone might like one song, another person might like another song. Something in there for everyone. It's a bit. It's fun.

What song are you most excited about?

I love World's Smallest Violin at the moment. I have a new obsession with it again. And it's weird because listening to myself is already weird. But this song in particular has got me dancing. I love the violins in it. I just. I really love this record. And it's the song that my fans are most resonating with, which is pretty cool.

Which was the hardest song to write on the album?

No, somebody. The Heartbreak record, One of my favorites as well. Really sad. I don't know how I'm gonna sing that live, to be honest.

What's one piece of advice you'd give to someone who's chasing their dreams and hasn't quite gotten there yet?

One, have a really good group of people that you trust. I think that's so important because when things get kind of rough, you need that support system. It's not good to be all alone. And I think in the beginning, I made the mistake of thinking I could do it all on my. I got hurt regardless. You'll get hurt, I'm sure. But not as bad as if you were like, if you have a really good group of people, I think it's important to have a good support system. It's good for your mental health, emotional health, physical health. You'll just be happier.

Well, Ava, thank you so much for coming on the Burnouts.

Thank you for having me, guys.

How can I help you today?

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No problem.

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