She Built Bumble to $13B...Then Walked Away. Here's Why.

Let's face it, everyone's juggling long, busy days. That's why Icebreaker's gum is made for the go getters. With flavor crystals that deliver a bold cooling effect, Icebreakers keeps you refreshed and ready to take on whatever's next. And here's a bonus. The pack fits perfectly in your car, cupholder or bag, so it's within reach when you need it most. Grab Icebreakers gum online or at a store near you.

Your home should show off who you.

Are, telling your story in every detail, meeting you where you are.

Ashley has styles that balance timeless appeal and modern trends to bring your personal look home. Pairing eye catching design with features like stain resistant performance fabric, Ashley offers well.

Crafted, affordable pieces built to stand up to real life. Plus, they provide fast, reliable white glove delivery right to your door.

Visit your local Ashley store or head.

To Ashley.com to find your style. When it comes to my own company, I know what the hell I'm talking about. I mean, for two or three years, I knew the right answer and people would talk me into the wrong answer. I'm just a young girl, what do I know? But I always knew. I'm back.

Whitney Wolfhard. Welcome to the burnouts.

Y' all are the best. Thanks for having me.

Do you remember how we all met?

How did we meet?

I think your team DMed us and then we met. You met her at a Stanford.

I met you. I met you at Stanford. And. And then you told me about what you guys were starting and then we all started chatting.

Yeah, we were on a group chat. That's when you told us we should have a fiascale, which took us like a year to figure out. Thank God we're there now. But we should have listened to you very, very early on. We first met Whitney when we were at Stanford and Whitney has been instrumental in us creating the company, advising us as we learned how to raise capital, how to build a product, how to hire people. And it's honestly been there for us just from the beginning. So I'm 22. Sophia's what, 23? You started Bumble at 24?

Just 20. I was just turning 25.

How did you decide to like take that leap? Was there ever a moment where you were like, I have no idea what the hell I'm doing.

I still don't know what I'm doing. But that's what being an entrepreneur is, I think. Has any entrepreneur known what they were doing? No, truly. But that's what makes somebody a founder is you go into the unknown with Conviction and belief in what you're trying to do, and you figure it out along the way. That's exactly what being an entrepreneur is. And that's why it doesn't work for everybody. Because so many people, in my opinion, need to know the manual. I'm much more of the type of person that says, give me a compass, let me pick my direction, and I'll navigate it. I'll just. I will follow my instincts and I will listen. I will listen to whoever I'm trying to serve as the member base, and then I will be guided. And I just think so many people need, like, A to B, A to Z instructions, and that's not how founders roll.

And was there anything when you were first in college or, like, early entrepreneurial experience that helped define you? We were reading online that you did, like, you sold bamboo tote bags to benefit BP Oil.

Yeah, y'.

All.

I was always hustling something. Really?

Wait, tell us more.

I don't know. I was just like, my sister used to tease me my apartment was above an Ann Taylor. Do you all know what Ann Taylor.

Oh, yeah.

It's like business lady suits. My sister, I would always be, like, taking calls, and we were in college and she wanted to go, I don't know, shopping or to the bar or whatever she wanted to do. We're like young college women. And she'd be like, do we need to go to Ann Taylor and get us business suit? And I was like, I'm busy.

I am.

I'm running things. And so it was just this running joke that I always was, like, doing business lady things.

I don't know.

I've just always been inclined to want to build and create something.

I think something we really struggle with was, like, first hires. We're not super technical. You're not a technical founder either. How did you figure out who to hire? At first, did you have that almost thinking that you needed to hire older people? Did you hire, you know, people similar to your age? How did you find, like, your first team?

Okay, so this is controversial, but basically, things started to fall apart when I hired all of those smart older people. That was when the wheels started falling off during that chapter. It's because they're far away from the customer. Now there are specialized people that you do need. So you certainly don't want to hire someone in their first year of finance experience to run your finance org. But where I think founders get things wrong, they assume that the chaos means they need to hire some quote unquote, adult in a suit to Figure it out. But really, the people you need to report to or look to are your members and listen to them. So I think the further you get away from your core audience with these people that candidly don't understand the vision or understand what problem you're solving, that's where. That's where companies lose their way. So there have been times in my career where a leadership team under me.

They looked at the company and saw it as like a business problem to solve for. They're like, okay, how do I take the revenue and multiply the revenue? But they would ignore the members. And I'm like, the members are the revenue.

Do you think you'll end up, like, hiring less people in the future because of AI? Do you feel like we're there yet.

Or we'll get there?

We're getting there. I mean, you just said it yourself. None. None of us are going to be able to get on a computer and code an app by ourselves. But you know what you can do right now? I've already done it completely with zero technical skills, you can build an app overnight. Where it becomes complex is integrating it into existing data sets and plugging it into like trust and safety teams that are pre existing. So it's not that you can't build new things quick, which is why y' all are in a very opportunistic moment. I'm sitting on so much legacy infrastructure and legacy data, legacy platforms. It's very, very hard to take legacy systems and then just say, we're just going straight AI. Now I can start to slowly rebuild off of modern infrastructure that is largely powered with and by AI. But y' all can really launch yourselves this way. So for example, we purchased a company called Geneva. It's a great tech business. It's going to be the kind of go forward infrastructure support. So if you look at Geneva, they are using all of the latest and greatest tooling, like largely AI oriented as well. And the way this system works, the way it moves, it's just unbelievable. So I think this legacy framework of like old tech is gone. You don't need 7,000 tech people. There are these amazing companies that are doing like half a billion of revenue and they have like 30 team members. So my advice is less is more. Like the fewer the better.

I feel like this new trope is going founder mode or being like, I'm gonna take over and make a decisive decision when it comes to the company. Like, have you had moments like that where you've been like, okay, people are telling me one thing, but I know in my gut this is the right decision.

Oh, yeah. I mean, for two or three years, I knew the right answer and people would talk me into the wrong answer. And I did it because they would kind of do this thing where you're like, oh, you're 32, like, you're not a decoder, like, you've never been to Harvard, you know, all of this stuff. And I kind of took it. Like, they depleted my confidence for a long time and there was just a lot of this. Like, I'm just a young girl, like, what do I know? But I always knew. Like, I do know.

I, I, you were right about Fia two years ago.

I mean, I'm not right about everything. I'm wrong about a lot of things. But when it comes to my own company, I love it.

Because they need you.

I know. I'm talking about.

I love it so much.

I'm back. And like, now everyone has to kind of listen to me because I was kind of right. So I'm huge on brand marketing. As you guys know. I'm a big believer in surprise and delight your members. So for years I would get on the phone in like, random towns and be googling florists in, like, Nebraska because some woman would have had a bad experience on Bumble. And she was in Nebraska, and I got her address and I'm like, flower shops in Nebraska. And I'm like, sending flowers. And then, you know, the accountant starts looking at like, how much we've spent on flowers. And then some operational person's like, you can't be sending gifts to members because what's the roi? Like, where's the roi? But what they failed to realize, I said, this is our growth. Treating our members with care, kindness, and unreasonable thoughtfulness. This is our growth. This is exactly why we are Bumble. Because time and time again we have reached out, we've apologized. When things have gone wrong, we've celebrated the things that have gone right. We have shown up in ways that make people's day. And then they go to dinner and they tell their friends. Yep. And then their friends tell somebody else. And on it goes. And so here I was listening to some data oriented assumption that there's no roi, when in reality, that was exactly the magic. And so now it's like, okay, maybe that wasn't so wrong after all.

Two questions. Have you ever done flowers for someone going through a breakup that they met the guy on Bumble? And have you ever done flowers for a Bumble wedding?

Oh, my God, yeah, A million times. I love that tons of bumble breakups that I will write, letters I'll send. Like I've sent so many self help books that I've. That helped me in breakups. Lots of flowers. And then bumble weddings. Oh yeah, we go, we go wild on bumble weddings. Like we've cleared registries, we've sent bumble wedding cakes. We've done all sorts of stuff.

It's like the do things that don't scale advice. I also know you had told us that when you were really early on in your career, you would do things like send people in crazy T shirts into like college campuses. Like, what were some of the early easy hacky marketing tricks that you used?

We bought all these ridiculous bee Halloween costumes. These like huge inflatable bee looks. And we would just have people walk down the street and hand out flowers and compliments to people in a full bee outfit. Like a huge inflatable bee outfit. We had people handing out all sorts of little goodies in ridiculous like beekeeper slash bee vibe looks. We would order hundreds of yellow balloons and just like take over libraries having people running through with balloons. We, I mean, we did so much random stuff. I was, I mean, I probably could get in trouble for it now, but at the time we were like nobody. I mean, I'd stand on the top of my car and hang up banners on trees and just leave them there for like a week. I mean like all those campuses. Yes. Like, this is how we grew. And it was just scrappy. It was surprise and delight. None of it was traditional. I mean, I never did like the old school ROI driven marketing. That's not how you capture people's attention.

How do you capture people's attention now?

Well, now it's all about how do I re engineer this? And the number one thing I think we should be doing and could be doing, what I would recommend y' all do too, is just talk to your members. Just like talk to the people that want to use your product and need your product and take them for what they have to say. Like, don't, don't run away from criticism. Lean into it. You know, when you screw up or you send them a product that is in high quality or something goes wrong, like, don't ignore them. You talk to them, you help them, you, you champion them. And I just think your members are your biggest marketing vehicle and they matter. They really, they matter so much.

How would you think about like FIA marketing stuff? We've done, like, you know, we've tried some influencer marketing stuff. Like we've tried some paid ads. Like how do you think about like what actually like converts and what should we do differently?

Community do do like really thoughtful gatherings where you bring together, you know, all of the people that you perceive as the ideal FIA customer and bring them together and give them something special. Like give them a interesting experience. Do something out of the box. I do think that brand Revolve did a good job by really focusing on bringing people together and creating these moments. So I think you should come up with like, what would the FIA woman want to do? Like, does she want to what does she want to do? Does she want to go thrifting? Like where does she want to go? Like where does she want to eat? What's her favorite cocktail? What's her favorite coffee? And just bring people together. Make it community oriented.

Let's face it, everyone's juggling long, busy days. That's why Icebreaker's gum is made for the go getters. With flavor crystals that deliver a bold cooling effect, Icebreakers keeps you refreshed and ready to take on whatever's next. And here's a bonus. The pack fits perfectly in your car cupholder or bag, so it's within reach when you need it most. Grab Icebreakers gum online or at a store near you.

Every holiday shopper's got a list, But Ross Shoppers? You've got a mission.

Like a gift run that turns into.

A disco, snow globe, throw pillows and PJs for the whole family, dog included.

At Ross, holiday magic isn't about spending.

More, it's about giving more for less. Ross work your magic.

When you invest with Fidelity Go, it does all the work for you. So while Fidelity Go monitors the markets, rebalances your portfolio, and tracks your progress to keep your investments aligned with your goal, you can invest your time however you want, all while paying no advisory fees. Under 25k. Invest your money, not your time, with Fidelity Go get started@fidelity.com go Advisory services offered by Strategic Advisors, LLC, a registered investment advisor. Brokerage services provided by Fidelity Brokerage Services, llc, Member NYSE and SIPC.

Something I want to return to is also just the concept of making hard decisions. I know that Bumble was really a pioneer in this idea of women making the first move. How did you land on that concept and how have you thought about that over the last few years?

I mean, it just felt really simple to me. At the time. I felt like because I'd been at Tinder, I had seen how my girlfriends felt using the apps. They're like, this is Not a good experience. Like, I'm getting harassed. I'm getting creepy, creepy behavior. And then I also looked at the parallels to dating before the dating apps, and I realized, oh, wow, women have been getting spammed pre Internet. Like, you go to a bar, you get spammed. You walk down the street, someone says something spammy. Like the equivalent of what spam would be online or harassment. I was like, man, this is so crazy. There's never been a barrier to enter, but there's also never been an excuse to go after what you want. Like, I don't know if you ever have felt this way, but I remember having a crush on a guy, and I texted him and I told my girlfriends, oh, I just texted so and so. And they're like, you what? Oh, my God, you. He's gonna think you're a psycho. He's gonna think you're desperate.

You cannot.

Don't ever text again. Don't ever do. I was like, why? And I couldn't understand why I wasn't allowed to do that. And then they're like, well, now the ball's in his court. Like, now he's. Now he. Now you've lost all your power. I was like, what are you talking about? But this was the. This was the mindset. So I was like, man, this is so crazy. So, you know, all of these things converged, and the Internet was treating women so poorly. It's like, there's something really broken here. There's something so wrong. We have to do something kinder, better, softer. So I was like, oh, okay. Women have to make the first move every single time. We're just going to basically say, this is the new normal, and that was the beginning. And candidly, we've outgrown it, right? Because society has shifted, and what a woman.

Means to different people has changed so dramatically as well. And you have to honor that. And as all things go, society evolves and shifts, and your product has to evolve with it or even faster than it to be relevant. And so now I think what we're really focused on is how do we preserve the spirit of what that did. But when you think about a woman sending a text first, that was really just a piece of this, the. The ethos, right? Like, it was. It was a mechanism to promote women being in control of their lives and. And taking charge, but it's not the only way. And so I think it's like, how do we bring that to life in other ways?

I want to talk about, like, your future vision for Bumble and what you're thinking as you're going back. You've talked a lot about, like, it being more than a dating app and, like, your future vision for that. If you're comfortable speaking about that, I think that'd be really cool.

Yeah, totally. I mean, listen, I think the thing that is lacking the most right now, and it's going to sound cheesy, but it's not. It's like everyone just wants love, whether it's with friends, love of. Of things you like to go and do, love in your job, love in your romantic life. And love is lost right now. It's like everything is so angry. It's so divided. It's so mean, it's so snarky. It's like, where's the love? Like, let's bring the energy back. And I'm super bullish and excited about Bumble for Friends. I mean, the amount of women that I know that tell me I had no friends in this city. When I got a new job, I met all my friends through bff. My sweet nanny, she made all of her friends through bff. She's from South Africa, and like, these women that she's met while she's been working with my family, she didn't know anyone. I relocated her, essentially, and she got on BFF and she's like, oh, I have a great group of girlfriends now. So. The power of finding your people, Bumble, it's transformational. And never have I ever heard of a product or technology where it can actually bring you closer to your people. I mean, dating apps are like, we know it, we get it 10 years plus. But I think the future of Bumble is really meeting as friends first. And I also think it's the next iteration of dating. So I fundamentally believe that as we scale and ramp up Bumble for Friends, I think what people are going to be shocked to realize is it's going to bring in the real spirit of how people have fallen in love originally. Like, they meet in groups of friends, they come together naturally, and they kind of say, oh, we were friends first. And so I think the power of friendship first, it can transcend just friendship. It can move into businesses. Look at this. You were friends first, now you're business partners.

Yeah, it's like the foundation for relationship.

It's like the foundation. And so I really believe the future of friendship expansion, especially for your age group. You know, you're so isolated. Not. Not the two of you, but your. Your demographic, your. You went through Covid. You've gone through this, like, social Media, first life. It's deeply isolating. I'm. I'm assuming how will you integrate like.

In person events too? Because I think a lot of that, like connecting over Instagram. I have so many girls idea.

I'm on Instagram because I'm like, hey.

I want to get your feedback on this. Like if you know, you know, I'm not afraid of a cold outreach, but like the in person element of like your girlfriends getting together, like, how do you incorporate that through Bumble?

What we're doing is making sure that everybody is ID verified or verified in another capacity so that, you know, whoever's in this group or whoever's forming together is actually who they say they are. Because safety is paramount. It's the most important thing to us, making sure that people can trust us, feel that they're meeting authentic, real, trusted people. And so groups is really what it's all about. And forming groups through different interests, whether that's like, I need someone to go to yoga with tonight or I want to go grab a cocktail, I want to go, you know, I'm now sober. I want to go and find the best mocktail in the city or ice cream, whatever it is people are dealing with in their life. It's like, how do you navigate these different touch points of your life together in community? And that's not an online chat forum. Our goal is not to keep you on the Internet all day. It is to use the power of technology to matchmake you even for friendship, to be the most thoughtful, strategic matchmaker, to then get you offline to go and do great things like this, like what the two of you are doing.

In the world and what role does technology play in that? I'm not going to lie. I write all of my emails and all my texts now with ChatGPT, I like write something I know.

With your fake assistant.

With my fake assistant? Yeah. Oh my God, that's so amazing.

For me. That is amazing.

Oh no, I'm sorry, your vague chief of staff.

What was its name again?

Kobe.

Kobe. Kobe. Kobe got me through college.

But I think you guys need like a service agent on FIA named Kobe.

We literally had someone respond to an email because we did the assistant thing. And then they were like, oh, like we know this.

Tricky. And I was like, oh no, this.

Actually is our intern.

You're like, no, this is a real person.

No. Now when we have other people that we loop into an email, everyone's like.

Haha, this person's no real.

Right? It's Kobe. And then we're like, oh, God, by.

The way, that's kind of genius. I would have never thought of that. That's pretty smart.

Honestly, I all credit told me, but I mean, also, actually, this is a really good thing that I wanted to return to. But something that really struck me when we met at Stanford was just you literally sat there for, like, 20 minutes, gave. I had, like, our pitch deck out. You were giving me advice. Like, you were so easy and outgoing, and I think it was really interesting. You told me all these other young people that you knew, you were like, oh, I know this other young founder. Like, do you want to connect with them? Like, what has that meant for you? Like, as you've grown in your career, obviously you've accomplished so many things, like, one of the only women to IPO a company. Like, how have you tried to. To try to give back and, like, to meet other young people and to foster and cultivate those kinds of, like, relationships?

It seems like you're pretty tapped into, like, the talent that's young, like, always. How do you do that?

I'm actually. I feel like I'm not, but I appreciate that that makes me feel like I am, so I'll take it as a win. You know, I was just thinking earlier how guilty I feel that I have not been giving more of myself in mentorship to people. But I've gotta be frank with you. Like, this is kind of the way I see philanthropy too. There is time to do that. There is a time to build. There is a time to mentor. There is a time to give back. There is a time to learn more. I do believe that we all cannot beat ourselves up for not being able to be everything to everyone all at once. And this thing I have actually gotten really good at is just saying, like, I have no bandwidth.

Yep. Yeah.

And not feeling guilty about it, because what happened last time was I felt this tremendous guilt to, like, oh, well, this young woman, like, she's trying to start a company, and she needs me because I know more about this. This thing than she does, and I have to be there for her. But what ended up happening was, like, I had nothing left, and so I had nothing left to give. And then when people asked me for advice, I was like, my brain's off. So now I'm just like, I'm really sorry. Like, I can't right now. I promise there will be a time for me to mentor. I will come around to it. But right now, I'm building, and, like, all of us have to have permission to be in a mode like, there are times where I've been, like, exclusively in mom mode. There's times where I've been exclusively in, like, self healing mode. It is okay to be selfish, but I think in my career over the last however many years, decade. Decades, decade and a half. Ish. No, like 12 years, there have been blocks of time that I've dedicated to other people and those relationships have been beautiful and rewarding. And even if I gave one person like, one little piece of feedback and it helped them, like, I'll feel so, so grateful that they were able to get that because I don't feel like I got that when I was growing up in tech. Like, candidly, I don't think I really knew a lot of people in tech and I was never.

You know, I would say the person that's been the biggest mentor to me in the entire, you know, time I've been in tech has been Brian at Airbnb. But him and I have only been friends for a little over a year. But he has made so much time for me and it has meant so much to me because he's so much further along in his journey. I actually credit him with so much of how I'm thinking about the second go round. And it's really powerful to be around someone who shows you how to give yourself permission to lead and not apologize for it. So I think that's my message to, like, pay it forward is don't ever apologize. You don't have to be everything to everyone. I do think women feel this particular need to, like, fulfill everyone's wishes at all times, and that's a really hard place to be.

When you Invest with Fidelity Go, it does all the work for you. So while FidelityGo monitors the markets, rebalances your portfolio, and tracks your progress to keep your investments aligned with your goal, you can invest your time however you want, all while paying no advisory fees. Under 25k. Invest your money, not your time, with Fidelity Go. Get started@fidelity.com go. Advisory services offered by Strategic Advisors, LLC, a registered investment advisor. Brokerage services provided by Fidelity Brokerage Services, LLC. Member NYSE and SIPC.

Member.

One iced coffee, 99 cents, please. For real?

No way.

Mmm.

One iced coffee, 99 cents, Please.

For real.

No way. Mmm.

What a deal.

Your new morning groove.

Iced coffee from McDonald's, any size, for just 99 cents till 11am Price and participation may vary. Cannot be combined with any other offer.

Ever since switching to T Mobile, something weird has been happening. I get to cut lines.

Oh, right this way.

Who, me? I Can stream shows at 30,000ft and I was able to buy reserve tickets for my favorite band.

It's not just you. With T Mobile, everyone can get VIP status. That means access to exclusive events and experiences just for being a customer at T Mobile. VIP means y ou check out the VIP treatment@t mobile.com benefits.

How the hell do you manage like your marriage while working too? Because this is something me and Sophia are talking about. Like we never see our boyfriends to be honest. Like we both have boyfriends, which I think is great. I think it, you know, helps us stay stable as we're building the company. And like I love my boyfriend so much but I'm like, you know, sometimes I don't have a lot to give if we've been working to 1am and I'm also exhausted.

Yeah.

And so like having him there as a rock is great but like how do you figure that out? You know, you've been, you know, a CEO for, for many, many years. How do you figure out how to like have a healthy relationship through that?

Well, I have the best husband. He's just like such a ray of, of light and breath of fresh air. I think what works with me in my marriage is my husband always takes the like steam away of the stress of things. Like if I'm super, super stressed, he'll pop his head in my office. I'll be like, it's a dating app. You're okay. Like, he'll be like, it's just a dating app. And then he'll take his head out and he'll be like, do you want a coffee? And I'm like, okay, you're so. Because the truth is like when I do think about your sister, for example, I mean that's life or death stuff. Okay. That's real stuff. Yeah. I do think all of us, maybe not the two of you, but I think all of us running our own things, we do tend to get a little, a little self inflated on how critical and how life or death we perceive our things to be. Listen, by the way, this is 12 years later of reflection. I've been with my husband for.

How did you guys meet?

Almost 11 years. Maybe. Maybe 11 years. We met when I was 24 years old in Colorado. Crazy. And he was 26. We were babies so it was like yalls age.

But I think in hindsight it's like just don't take everything so seriously. Like it's okay. Like nothing's gonna crash. If you take a two hour breather and go out to dinner and Relax or shut the laptop. And I mean, I know this is the burnout, and I am a recovering burnout, so I. I totally get it. But I've got to tell you, like, it's so much better not to be persistently burnt out.

I. I think that that's honestly something really interesting for you to talk about in the sense that I know you also have said publicly now that you felt like you had an ego death, and now you feel like you're taking the reins in a new way. Like, how have you recovered from burnout? Why do you think you felt burnt out in the first place?

I think I felt burnt out because I was trying to control everything. If something didn't go exactly the way I wanted it to go, I needed to get it done right now I had to get it done right. It had to be now, now, now, now, now. And I think you know that that old saying, like, stop and smell the roses, like, I don't think I did that for 10 years, metaphorically or literally. And what kind of life is that? Right? And so here's the deal with, with burning out. There's a time and place for it. I do think when you're launching a company, hit it hard. Like, you need to, like, stay up till one in the morning every now and then. Hey, like, knock your socks off. You're young, you can handle it. You don't have responsibilities outside of it. Right? Whereas burning yourself out where I am now, it's not an option for me. I burnt myself out with a one and a half year old at home when I was going public. And it had serious consequences. I mean, took a real toll on my health, took an extreme toll on my mental health. It took a toll on my child. Like, you can't be doing that. That's irresponsible.

And certainly not when you don't have to. Right? If I had a job, I was a doctor, or there was something that forced me to be in a building, but when you're doing it just to do it, it's. It's a bit. It's like, enough is enough. And here's the other thing. We're all running on a tank of energy, all of us, even at your age. And you can't do a good job if your energy goes away, right? And so I think also learning how at your age, and this is for all young people starting a job, like, wake up in the morning and think about it as having like a watering bucket. And that watering bucket has energy in it. It's water. And you only have one of them a day. And everything you stop and pay attention to, you pour some of your water out, everything. So if you stop and you. You stress out over what someone said or what they might think or what could go wrong, you are standing there watering that. You're watering that. That is a plant. So it's like, is that a weed or is that a flower? Is that a plastic plant or is that something that can grow? And so getting really intentional about how and where you spend your time and your energy, it will make you all that more successful. I had no way of. There were years where I sat and watered plastic plants all day long with my energy. Metaphorically. Right. I was just so paranoid about what could go wrong or if someone liked me or what my team member would think if I did this or that. I was just like, pouring my water out on literally plastic plants. And it's like it. Nothing ever fudgeing grew.

I'm laughing because I feel like this all the time too. When I, like, put my. When I delegate my time wrong or I feel like I waste time and I get to the end of the day, I feel that way all the time.

Do you feel that?

I mean, I feel like it's so easy to get depleted. I think that my. My aunt said something to me recently that honestly has really helped me. Very similar to what you're saying when.

Which is.

She said, before you pick any battle or do anything, you need to ask yourself, like, is this worth it? If someone is pissing you the fuck off, is it worth it?

Pick your battles wisely.

Pick your battles wisely. And now I'm like, okay, do I think that this is worth it? Like, am I, if. If I talk to this person or if I engage in this conversation, like, am I going to get something positive out of it? If the answer is no, I don't. I don't engage. Like, I drop.

That's right.

I just move on or, like, move away.

But.

But I think prioritization is so hard when you're in your early 20s. Cause it's like you're balancing so much. Like, should I go out with my friends? Should I spend more time on my career? Like, I also want to take it back to, like, the really early days and when you were first starting out. Like, what is the advice that you would give to other, like, young girls, especially who are in their early 20s and starting their career? Like, how do you decide what's important?

Balance it. So don't give up your friendships. Don't give up Your personal life? I did. There was a joke when I was living in Austin, starting Bumble. I think it was like year six into Austin and I went to a bar with some friends and they were.

All like, oh, my God, document this.

She's at a bar. And I was like, in my young 20s, I should have been at the bars. Like, go to the bar. Go have fun. Like, don't, don't, don't throw everything away. Like, keep some fun in your life. Because honestly, joy is fuel.

Yeah.

So you have to nurture your friendships. You have to be. You have to be a whole human. And actually I was saying this to a girlfriend earlier. She's like, why do you think you're in such a better mood this time? A CEO? And I was like, I learned. I learned how to take off my work hat.

Yeah.

Oh, I learned how to take off my work hat. And I learned how to trade hats. Shout out to Tori, because she was just like, we were just talking about this. And before it was like, the hat, I could only wear one hat. It was so stuck in this gear. Like on a Friday night, if I did go to a birthday party, I was just like, I wasn't there. I was there, but I wasn't there. Right. I was thinking about whatever I needed to get done. I was looking my emails. I was stressing out. Now I'm like, okay, that hat is off. Hang it up and like, let's put on our other hat. So the sooner you can all learn at this age, as startup founders, as people trying to give it their all, like, you will be a better.

Founder, executive, CEO if you learn how to wear your different hats and really, really wear the different hats. Like, be present in whatever it is you do. Don't be somewhere else.

Do you think it's possible to be successful without, like, wearing the work hat all the time? Because I think I get, like, obsessive about that.

No, not at first. I'm talking about, like, it's like an airplane. Once you take flight, like, once you're out of that critical period, you've got to shift out of it. And this is where people go wrong. Like, no, I actually don't think so. Like, I do not believe that you can have a billion dollar company that you, like, spend three hours a day on. I do not believe that. I mean, maybe please, God, someone call me and tell me that that's possible. Like, show me the way. I personally don't know how you would do that because I do believe that obsession and commitment and dedication is like, the only way to get in flight, what I'm talking about is once you're in flight, learn how to say, we're to cruising altitude. It's okay to stand up. Do you see where I'm going with that? Like, don't be me. Don't be me. Where you do the obsessive non stop. Never do anything else but work, work, work until you're 35. If you're 24 right now. Right? Like, that's not a good idea. It's fine to do it for two years, it's fine to do it for a year, it's fine to do it for three years if you have to. Cool. That's a chapter.

It's like college.

Like, you cram for four years, but it ends. College ends. Like, you move on. Right. Or you're supposed to. So I think it's just, like, remind yourself it's time to graduate from the burnout phase.

We're going to be playing a game where we basically ask you for your opinion on different marketing concepts that we've either come up with or are super iconic. And then you'll tell us if you would swipe left or right and why.

I love it. Let's go.

Okay, let's do it.

Let's do it.

Okay, let me go to the first one. Okay, so round one is gonna be taglines. Best price in one click.

This sounds like a Best Buy ad.

Yeah. Oh, fuck. Okay, wait, just to be honest. No, that's great. Okay, that's great.

I get it.

Okay. But I think we can do better.

We can do better.

Okay, so I'm gonna swipe left.

Swipe left.

Please tell me this is not your firm tagline because did I just screw up the entire.

No, it's not. No, you didn't at all. This will definitely not use this. Okay. Shop like a genius.

Yeah, I like that.

You like that?

Yes, I do. It feels very apple to me. Okay. It just. You know why I like it? Usually shopping is targeted towards people who are.

Maybe not categorized as geniuses. Shopping is not usually seen as an intellectual thing. So I actually like that you're taking something that has a stigma of, like, even Fashion Week, for example.

Yeah.

It doesn't feel like where you're going to see, you know, PhDs and savants of our time. So I like the idea that you're merging it and. And showing that it can be done in a really smart way.

I love that.

So I'm gonna swipe right on that.

Swipe right. Shop with the data, not guilt.

That's a no.

I don't know. I feel like it's a little boring.

It's boring.

I'm gonna go with no.

Okay, I agree. You're being ripped off.

I love that you love it. Okay, that's great. It's definitely. It makes you go, wait, what? I am. How? Where? I actually love it. This I love. This is.

Swipe right. Okay. Love it. Price is fair, low, or high?

So it rates the price of the item. Yes. That's super smart. People should know. Like, where does that net out? I think the number one question is always like, am I getting ripped off? Yep. Right. And so to be like, this is actually where the gauge is. But can I ask, have you guys given Fia, like, a real Persona yet?

No, we haven't.

You should. I think Fia should become, like, every woman's best friend. Like, who is FIA? You know how they've done this with some AI stuff, or even the Alexa machine or that movie 100 years ago.

It's.

It's not relevant anymore. The Alicia Vikander was the AI robot, but she, like, had such a personality. You should create a real Persona where people actually feel like they know Fia.

Oh, look at, like, a shopping assistant. Yeah.

She's like, your friend, and she's helping you get ready. But give her, like, a real. Make a real. Not a real person, but, like, she should, like, what's her favorite sock brand?

Yep.

Like, what time does she wake up in the morning? What does she put in a smoothie? Coffee order? Like, give her a real personality, and then you can get ready with her. She can be like, that doesn't look great on you.

Like a stylist.

Yes, but she's your friend. That gives you honest feedback. Or she'll be like, a Cuts are not for you, but. But you know what? A mini dress is amazing. Like, try this.

Whitney, thank you so much for taking the time to do this. It's so honestly such a privilege to be able to learn from you. And thank you for being so vulnerable about your journey and everything you've learned.

Well, I've had so much fun. I think you two are amazing, and I know you are just getting started, and try not to burn out too hard. And I'm really proud of y', all, and thanks for having me. I'm really honored because you guys could have anyone here. So happy to be here.

When you Invest with Fidelity Go, it does all the work for you. So while FidelityGo monitors the markets, rebalances your portfolio, and tracks your progress to keep your investments aligned with your goal. You can invest your time however you want, all while paying no advisory fees under 25k. Invest your money, not your time with Fidelity. Go get started@fidelity.com go Advisory services offered by Strategic Advisors, LLC, a registered investment advisor. Brokerage services provided by Fidelity Brokerage Services, LLC, Member NYSE and SIPC.

The McDonald's Snack Wrap is back. You brought it back. Ranch snack wrap Spicy snack wrap. You broke the Internet for a snack? Snack wrap is back.

Ever since switching to T mobile, something weird has been happening. I get to cut lines.

Oh, right this way.

Who me? I can stream shows at 30,000ft and I was able to buy reserve tickets for my favorite band.

It's not just you. With T Mobile, everyone can get VIP status. That means access to exclusive events and experiences just for being a customer. At T Mobile. VIP means y ou check out the VIP treatment@t mobile.com benefits.