Why we dropped out of Stanford to build this app (ft. the Phia team)

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Hi and welcome back to the Burnouts. Today is a huge day for us because it is finally our launch day. We have launched the App store officially, so now you guys can all download FIA and Sophia, you can finally tell everyone what FIA is.

We couldn't be more excited to introduce FIA to you guys. FIA is an app and shopping tool where you can basically find the best prices on fashion in one click. Think of it as Google flights meets fashion. So basically, basically, while you shop, the FIA shopping tool pops up and then tells you in one click where you can find that exact same item but for a lower price if it's available or it tells you if you already have the best price.

We couldn't think of anything better to do for our official launch day episode than to introduce you to the people behind the scenes who've actually made this entire product to come to life. These are the people that keep me and Sophia motivated that call us out when we have the wrong ideas that push us to think harder. Sophia. So we want you to meet some of the people on the FIA team that made this actually come to life.

So we were able to pull Carter away from his computer for five minutes to do this. The one and only Carter, our Chief Product Officer.

How's it going, guys?

So this section might be a little bit contentious because there's a little bit of argument about how me and Carter first met.

She slid in my DMs on Zoom.

That is.

Yes, absolutely.

That's like exactly what happened.

That's not what happened. For context, we were working at the time on one of our first MVPs that was really desktop based and we were having Trouble getting people to download it. So we wanted to do different speaking engagements. We were like, oh, laptops up, FIA down. And we wanted these different clubs to install FIA and also frankly to get feedback from people. I didn't know I was going to get such harsh real feedback. It was what was needed at the time. But I ended up joining like a Q and A session for Stanford and Carter was like one of the leads of the club who hops on and, and it was consistently just this one kid. Hand raised question, hand raised question.

I was like, and why did you decide to do that?

I thought it was constructive criticism. I mean, I was more so curious because I was working in E commerce at the time, so I was really interested in, in the secondhand markets, but I was more focused on the seller side. But I was always, I was always interested in what the consumer side looked like. And so yeah, I was just like trying to pry deep into like what Phoebe and what FIA was because I didn't really know at the time. And um, I always saw fashion as like this wide open industry. And I was like, hey, like, yeah, like what are your thoughts? Like, how's it going? Like, just generally trying to like pry deep and like, what does PMF look like for you guys?

So who approached who first?

I slid in my my DMs on Zoom. Like that. That was like crazy.

He was roasting me on this live Q and A session.

So you did message him?

I did message him and I was like, no. After the call, then he emails me.

Okay.

Then after the call he emails me because I swear Phoebe texted me in.

The middle of this and was like, there's this guy guy grilling me on Zoom.

I don't know how she's doing this while she's speaking. By the way, this is like pretty.

Impressive because all the other questions were so easy. They were like, how'd you choose the color blue for the.

They were. They're pretty, pretty. Agree.

The ocean spoke to me, so I did it. And then Carter's questions are like, do you really think that this can gain traction as an only desktop application given that 3/4 of women primarily shop on their mobile phones? And how are you going to gain virality? Let me talk to you about my influencer marketing strategies that I've done. So, so then Kurt emails me afterwards he emails me. And then I called you and I was like, this kid's a genius. Cause I started to check out like your GitHub and you had whatever the.

Green carpet stalking me on GitHub. Is crazy.

Yes, I was, because I was curious. But at the time you were working on the seller side, which we kind of explored looking into at one point. Could there be like a circular thing where you could resell through Fiat? Which by the way, I want to circle back to. I still think that that's interesting in the future, but. So we decided to meet up to talk about that. And I had called Sophia and I was like, we need to bring this kid on. Like he needs to be a part of our team to work on product.

I was just more interested in like how the company was doing. Like, I wasn't sure that I wanted to work on fia, but I was really sold.

Mining me for information at the coffee?

No, I was just curious and I think that like I was genuinely sold on the vision of the company when we talked and I thought it was a really good conversation. And so that's why I was actually really excited to talk to Sophia. Once we, like, once I. Once I saw what was in place, I was really excited and I was like, honestly, like this could be really huge. So I don't know. Yeah, it was like a natural transition.

Remember when we met Carter, we kept saying, we're going to launch next month, we're going to launch next month.

And I was like, hell no. There is absolutely zero shot.

Looked like he was going to cry.

I swear to God. I was like, how do we avoid disaster, please?

And then, yeah, we called at like 1am One night.

Yeah.

Basically here comes the bad sleep routine. Habit. The issue that we all have now is it will show up to the office around 9:30 and then we won't leave it or someone will leave around like 12, 12:30. But the bad sleep started very early on, bro.

The bad sleep started because we had this one where Carter basically has like an intervention and says the product doesn't make sense the way it is. Nobody cares about retail value. It's so confusing. And then we basically were like fudge. Low key.

Sophia started tweaking out after that call. Like we were basically heads down on product for. For hours and hours every single day.

My favorite was when we were at the office one night until super late and Carter goes on a date for like an hour. Comes.

I think it was like a couple office.

No, it was like an hour.

Literally an hour and a half.

Was it. I swear it was like three hours.

We were all like, oh, it couldn't.

Have been a good day. You were like, I'm going to be back 8pm sharp. And we were like, really you're only giving her an hour and a half. And you were like, I'm locked in. I have things to do.

I also don't understand as a woman because, like, when you have a date, like, you get ready for it. Carter was like, at the laptop, Shut the laptop, put the laptop in the bag, went to the date return, Open the bag, open the laptop.

Slightly intoxicated, still trying to work. Slightly, slightly.

Because Carter is our chief Product officer. Tell us how you view the FIA product. Why are you excited about the vision of this company?

I think the way that I view it is we've done so much in such a little amount of time. I genuinely, genuinely think that we've gone from avoiding absolute catastrophe to building something extremely meaningful. And I think it's a matter of how can we potentially explore an end to end experience with shopping. I think our wedge is very smart in that we have an existing utility where we're meeting shoppers where they already are, which is the browser. And I think there's a lot of really meaningful data that we can gather from that and from there. There's so much on the roadmap that we have planned.

How would you pitch FIA now and how would you want to pitch FIA in a year?

I view in the. In. In one year as Fiat as the ultimate AI stylist. I don't know if that's like, too tech, bro, but I generally think there's a market opportunity, a market arbitrage opportunity of a personal assistant that just knows you so well when you're shopping and can understand your taste. So granular to a point where there's like a personal companionship to it. Where it's when you're shopping, you know exactly. You know exactly like, what you want and you know exactly where to get it at any time.

Who would you say is the most casual person in the office?

It's probably me. I mean, like, shamelessly wearing graphic T shirts. Like, I bring my skateboard to the office. Like, they're making me aware of this. I definitely didn't plan on wearing a sweatshirt, but, you know, you don't like our merch. I think it's tough. Look, I just like my graphics away.

What is the thing you're most nervous about in the next six months for Fiat and the thing you're most excited about?

Absolutely nothing. I have full confidence in the product. I genuinely think we're building something really meaningful. I think, if anything, I'm more nervous about how fast we can grow and scale in terms of, like, growing up the Team making sure scalability is good with our tech stack, etc. So yeah, more so nervous about how fast we're going to grow and less about whether or not the product's going to work. So yeah, I'm just generally really excited.

Remember when you almost dropped out?

Carter is getting his master's at Stanford. He's in. It's like the fast Master's program. You have what, five weeks left?

Yeah, pretty much, yeah. I mean sleeping on planes two times a week is not, is not ideal. But honestly, like Carter.

Honestly, yeah. Show Carter. Thank you so much for coming onto the Burnouts.

Thank you for having me. This is great. I'm excited for the future.

Now we are bringing on two lovely ladies who've been with us from the beginning, since before we had a product or had anything. Mira and Sophia D. Thank you guys for joining us on the Burnouts today. This feels so full circle to me. I love this. But why don't we kick off? Mira, you work on operations, and Sophia, do you work on design? Can you walk us through? What does operations mean at a startup?

Well, so when I first started and got my very first contract, I was just told that I was going to be an intern and I was like, great, I will help out however I can. I. I did not realize that actually meant helping out however I can. Because the way I describe ops is just anything that's not engineering. And honestly I feel like that's really accurate. Like I'm working with the design team, I'm working with product, with marketing, finance, everything. And so it's like a really all encompassing job.

But it's great.

Yeah.

And I do UX design and product design. But I did start out at via doing social media and I kind of had not really a good idea about what UX design was until you guys gave me that chance to try it out for the first time in like a professional setting.

I didn't know what Figma design was, which is basically, that's how you design a product for engineers to implement it. But I had found Sophia D on Instagram and she ran a really successful Instagram page that was beautiful. And so I thought that.

Can you define the word found? Because I think you keep a screenshotted folder of people you deem as talented in your phone.

People just every episode are going to think I'm more and more psychotic. I had seen Sophia D's work blow up over the pandemic. I would say it did blow up. Like you were running an Instagram page that gained tens of Thousands of followers. And it was beautiful, graphic, like, explanations of different current events. And so I thought you had an amazing creative eye. And so I had screenshot in your Instagram and put it in my favorites, because my first thought was, wow, if I ever start something that has anything to do with design, I need to hit this girl up. And I saw you were a freshman at Rutgers, and I just thought you were so beyond your years. And so when we were first starting FIA and we needed someone to help us with design, I thought that Instagram graphics equal design.

Right.

So I messaged you, and then I didn't know that you had never used FIGMA or traditional UX UI tools before.

Yeah, I had used it a little.

Bit at, like, a school club. But the fact that you were just like, okay, I'm adding you to the figma, Take a stab at these designs. And you know, that agency and, like, autonomy that you give kind of all of our interns really is honestly a great way to help us kind of really lock in and force us to learn.

I mean, technically, yeah, you both, like, kind of left school and moved to New York City to work on this. And I want you guys to also explain. How did you view FIA as an opportunity? Why did you want to join this company?

When it really clicked for me was when, I guess you guys asked me to do those initial Figma designs. When I had kind of started doing it. Like, I had. I was working on it for, like, two hours, like, completely lost in this work. And then I was like, this is something that I think I want to do for the rest of my life, and I think I want to do it with these boss women founders that I feel like I kind of view you guys as, like, my one year older than me sisters. Because, Sophia, you have given me so much, like, incredible advice. I remember this one day that we were on a team retreat.

Oh, the San Diego.

And you sat us down and, you know, you asked us a question earlier about, you know, how do you deal with people being older than you in the industry? And I think, like, I carry this piece of advice that you gave with me, like, every single day. Like, I think about this when I show up to work, when I'm designing, when I'm talking to other people. You told us that, you know, despite you being, you know, not as experienced, it is about the way that you show up and, like, acting like you are already capable of this and that you have what other people have in terms of confidence and skills, then, you know, those confidence and skills will follow if you just kind of put yourself in that mindset. And I think literally, you told me that and like, my whole worldview on, like, me being like, oh, I can't do it. I'm so, like, you know, inexperienced. I'm still in college. No, because you just kind of have to act like you're already there and you are allowed to be there and you belong there. So honestly, like, these, like, kind of life lessons, and then also, of course, like the learning that I get from Fia, people are like, oh, did you drop out of school? And I was like, no.

Like, this is.

This is practically my school.

Like, FIA University.

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I really do think that the autonomy that you give the interns and just like other people on the team to kind of immerse themselves into whatever task they're supposed to be doing is fantastic. And I really wish that I had that experience in school more because I think I don't.

But you have to tell everyone that. Mira's also such a killer. She moved to New York City for a summer internship and then we were like, I just never, never leave. And then she moved her whole life to New York City.

And there's a whole backstory to this because we were like, we can't bring Mira on the podcast, she'll get poached. Because for context, this girl works all the time. And I think that that's something that both of you have, that we got so lucky. And this is something, actually I didn't have early on, but that Sophia taught me how to do is to find an edge in someone. Like, if you see someone, you're like, okay, they're in this position, their career. I KNEW you were 18. You didn't know how to do accounting. I knew you would take an intro to accounting, but I knew that there was an edge there of what you would become. And I think that's the exact same thing that Sophia saw in you. Sophia D. Was like, oh. And what she told me was like, this girl, yeah, she just does Instagram graphics right now, but you just wait a year and watch what she'll do, and you switch your major into design and literally have designed our app from the ground up. I mean, you did our entire logo.

I think a lot of my friends asked me, like, what do you do all day? And I'm like, guys, I'm learning and I'm working, and that's kind of my day to day. They're all in classes and, you know, taking lectures and speaking to professors and getting experience that way. Whereas I have always been a person who learns best by doing. And I think that working at FIA is genuinely, like, the best class that I've ever been in. Like, truly. Like, I learned so much. Not just about, you know, operations and what that looks like, but also just, like, how to be a good person, how to, you know, manage people, how to treat others that you're working with. I think you learn so many interesting things. You guys have cultivated such an awesome environment for us to kind of grow in, and I think communicating that to others is just really exciting and inspiring, and I love encouraging my friends. Now I'm like, guys, if you find an internship at a startup, please take it. It's the best decision you will ever make.

Something we haven't gotten to that is so crazy is that Mira's ex used to work for us.

We're just discovering this now, too.

Like, she never told us, right? We literally had this guy as an intern for three months, and then she joins. She actually offboards him, I think.

There was a night where I was working really late in the office, and Sophia was also there with me, but she was about to leave, and we were talking about my high school for some reason, and she mentioned this guy that I offboarded and. And I was like, haha, did you know that he was my ex? Like, we actually dated. And she was like, wait, what? And then it was.

It was bombastic.

I actually don't think you, like, heard what I said the first time.

I thought I didn't. I thought. I thought I misheard you because I just was like, there is no way that what she just said is real.

When you told Sophia, Phoebe had already left the office. Yeah. She was gone. And I was just, like, standing there in the back, like, soaking all of this in as if it was a reality show. We should start an office reality show, by the way. That would be hilarious.

I love that.

But I remember she is, like, calling Phoebe up. She's like, phoebe, I know you left, but you have to hear this right now. She's like.

And then running around left, mind you. Sophia walks out, okay? Because she's like, I have to go. So Sophia leaves, and she's like, on.

The phone with Phoebe.

And I'm sitting there, I'm like, this is like, insane. Like, I cannot believe. I think this was, what, two months after I started working. So I was like, I cannot believe.

I'm like, okay, thank you so much for the information, Mira. I need to go and buy. I need to go. I walked outside, called Phoebe and said, mira just told me the most insane thing ever. And then be makes me walk back into the office.

And then he's like, what?

What?

It was fine. Like, what am I going to do?

Honestly?

It was a power trip. You took over for him and you.

Guys imagine, like, firing your ex or like, off boarding your ex, being like.

Sorry, we've talked too much about Sophia's ex boyfriend on this podcast. So we.

It's okay. It's, you know, it's fine. It's fine.

And he still has me blocked.

So.

You know what a really funny story is that? I remember.

What?

When you started using voice to text to message us about work stuff.

Yeah, like, best voice discovery ever. Ever.

Not for anyone who has to work with you.

Because I remember there was one day when you started when you switched from typing like a normal person to then using your mic to send work messages to us.

And we definitely knew because of the punctuation, so you would have.

Okay, wait, we need to go to the first time I ever did it, because I know what you're talking about now, because I was really sick one day and typing just took too much effort. And so my boyfriend uses voice dictation all the time, so that's how I learned about it. He does it to write his emails and stuff. And so I felt sick. I didn't feel like looking at my computer too bright. And so I'm like, okay, let me try what he tries. Let me try voice dictation. And I had a lot of. We were. We were in onboarding hell. We had so much work to do. And so I turn, like, I tap the microphone, and I start talking.

Boom.

It makes this beautiful paragraph for me with periods and punctuation, which we. And then I send it. And then I was like, this is amazing. I have so much more I need to say to her. So poor Sophie D. Gets, like, an essay of all this stuff that I know that we need to do. And then I didn't caveat that, oh, I'm voice dictating.

I just thought you were mad at me because, no, you would text like, we need to get this done right now, period. And I'm just like, did I?

Which if I said that out loud, I'd be like, oh, you know, we.

Really need to get this done right.

Now, because it's blah, blah. But you always using voice text on everything.

Your text this morning were like, we'll talk later.

No, it was like, there's.

Oh, we'll talk later. All right.

No, I'm like, we're gonna talk.

Sure, we will talk later.

No, I take everything now. I think it sounds really mean, though, because it adds periods, and if I don't.

Yeah, it said, we'll talk later, period.

The only time I've ever seen punctuation from Sophia is in an email, and sometimes it's not even there. So, you know, I was, what is going on? And I text Sofia D. And I'm like, dude, is Sophia, like, mad at us? Like, what do we need to do? Like, I'm really scared. Like, did I do something wrong?

I just thought, oh, like, maybe more grammar will make our interns work harder. Yes.

I was like, you know what productivity?

Like, sick in bed thinking I've discovered the coolest thing. And, like, every time we have a.

Zoom call or, like, a Google Meet or whatever, Sophia's camera off because she's homesick. So all of us are like, oh, my God. Like, something is really wrong. You've really, like, messed up. Like, I don't know what's going on, and I have a lot. Yeah, that's all, like, mafia.

You were. That was crazy.

We're gonna play a game called who's more likely to? And we're gonna ask you questions, and you're gonna say, if I would do it. Or if Phoebe would do it.

Okay, who is this is. These ones are easy. First off, who is more likely to Slack at 3am with a new idea?

So.

Yeah.

Sophia. 100%.

Okay. I don't sleep a lot.

No.

Who probably will cry first on launch day?

Phoebe.

I think you would cry. I think so. I think you're going to cry at home and then come into the office and then cry again out of joy.

Or out of joy.

I think when you're at home, I think it's going to be like a bit of fear and joy, but then you're going to cry of joy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm a little bit.

Yeah.

It's hard.

I think it'll be sweet. And then you're in the office and you're like excited and like we're all pumped up. Next question.

Who is the most obsessed with Gen Z lingo?

Sophia.

Sophia.

That was the worst part about voice dictation is I would say slay and then it would do it like.

Really.

Really hard for you.

Like the reindeers.

Okay. Who is most likely to be the more ruthless editor on a Google Doc?

Phoebe. It depends on. Actually, it depends.

Phoebe.

On a Google Doc.

Sophia.

On a figma.

That makes sense to me.

I see that.

Yeah.

This is extremely ugly.

Yes. This is worst image of all time.

Worst image. Who is most likely to miss the memo on the office dress code?

Sophia.

Absolutely. Me.

Me and my sweats.

Who's the most likely to schedule 7am meeting and show up in full glam?

Phoebe.

Phoebe. 100. Who's most likely to overshare the office? Phoebe.

Phoebe.

Definitely be me. Who's most likely to go completely off script for a pitch and nail it?

Phoebe.

Honestly?

Both of you? Yeah, both of you.

I don't know.

I don't think I've heard Sophia be on pitch calls though. I think I've probably sat with you through a wall.

It was so good. I was like, wow.

Thank you guys so much for joining us. Let's get back to it. Let's launch this company.

Let's do it.

Thank you for having us.

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Okay, so joining us now is Margo, our incredible podcast producer. I'm actually concerned that the cameras aren't on because I feel like you manage everything and oversee everything. Being on the other side literally oversees like everything marketing for FIA2.

So.

So welcome. And Tinas, my personal favorite person ever who actually doesn't work at FIA whatsoever but crashes at our office nearly every day. Do you have a job?

No, not yet, but I'm looking for one. I'm trying really hard.

Well, he's a crypto day slash night trader and then used to run a.

VC firm with like violence. He's like crypto guy.

He used to run the largest nonprofit for youth civics Unplugged and then now is working on Reid Hoffman's team. So it is true, he does actually have a job. That said, he crashes at our office and hangs out with us. So. Welcome to Burnouts, the nasi.

Thank you.

Let's start first with Margot. Tell the story of how you ended up joining thea.

I guess the story starts when I met Sophia when I was a junior in college and we had this mutual mentor. He introduced us and I didn't know if this mentor was legit or not since it was like a cold dm. So he put me on the phone with Sophia and said, here, you can talk to her. She'll vouch for me. And I talked to Sophia, she's in like Egypt or something.

She.

I'm it's maybe 3am where she's at. And I'm like, hey, is this guy legit? Like, is he really going to help me. And you're like, yeah, he's. He's great. No problem. Flash forward a year later, we didn't speak, and then he introduces us again. And it's to work on your social media, which was so much fun. It was like this little side hustle where I was just, like, making videos and editing TED Talks and stuff. And then you would post them on your Instagram. We stayed friends. We both moved to New York City after college. You were building fia, I was working in another startup, and you called me randomly one day and said, hey, we're starting this podcast with the Unwell Network. Do you want to come be our producer? And I was like, I've never. I've never done that.

I just want to say Sophia and I were talking about you for, like, weeks before.

I was begging Sophia to call me.

Oh, my God. And Sophia was like, I have it all mapped out. Margo's going to become a producer at the Unwell Network. Like, that's what's going to happen. We're going to do this podcast.

No idea about any of this.

Yeah, you were being what happened?

Because we originally were going to work with someone else. And I kept begging Sophia to call Margo, but she was like, we need to see if the podcast takes off first before, like, we make Margo quit her job. And then by some act of God, ended up not working out with the other person. We've two hours left before we're about to hop on the phone with Alex Cooper. I'm freaking out. And Sophia calls you, and you're like, yeah, I'll quit today. I'll join the call. Great. Send the papers over.

That's exactly how it worked.

Margot. Such a badass. Literally. We were like, we need you. Will you join? She quits her job. Literally two hours later, is on a call with Alex. So professional with an entire.

And then I was so nervous because they turned to one of the people on the network and they go, so, what's the pitch for the show? Succinctly, boom. She has a one pager. She is a pitch. She's a pitch deck. I don't understand in 120 minutes how she put these assets together, but really, like, ended up crafting the vision for what kind of burnouts has become. And now we're all working together on FIA as well.

This sounds so cliche. It was honestly such a dream come true because I loved my job before, but the thought of being able to quit a job, that was like, you know, it was great. And whatever. But sorry, I know my old employers.

Are going to watch this podcast. I love you all.

I love you all.

Thanks for the support.

Um, that I got to quit my job and now I get to work with my best friends. And it's so fun that I get to come to the office every day. And it was such a strange leap of faith where I'm like, I've never even produced a podcast. I make videos on Instagram. And that was the extent.

And you were really, really good at it.

And here we are, a full blown podcast later.

And how did Thanasi get into the mix on all of this? Well, first of all, Thanasi is one of our best friends, a genius. And so we're doing a bajillion things and every time something goes wrong, Thanasi, poor, he's on speed dial, is the first person that we call. This is very true. And then one day we're like, you know what if you come help us and therapize us in person? And then he comes.

I think the biggest lesson though is honestly having people around you who can give honest feedback. Whether that's Carter, who could give us honest feedback to our first product and be like, hey, this thing sucks.

It makes no sense.

We need to actually listen to customers. Or you guys being like, it was a catastrophe. No, it truly was, but we learned from that.

I definitely think me and Phoebe have a lot of conviction in our ideas, but I also think that we are self aware enough to realize that the whole point of doing this company is to bring people way smarter than us into the fold and to listen to them and to have their own ideas shape the vision. And you guys definitely have been a huge part of helping us to course correct both for the podcast, but also for the company when it comes to what we're actually building.

Thank you guys so much for joining us.

So happy to be here.

Love you guys.

I'll go back to the other.

Can I still come to the office?

No.

Okay. This is our first launch, so there's a ton of room for growth. So please go download Fia, try it out. Give us all of your feedback. We have a ton of more features we want to roll out. We want to get all of your guys's thoughts on how we can create the future of shopping because this is only the beginning of the journey we're on. We're really pumped that you guys got to meet the team behind it too.

And next week, given that we just launched our company, we're going to be talking to the queen of consumer led marketing. Leave your guesses in the comments of who it is, and we'll be back with another episode of the Burnouts.

Can you believe we're actually fucking doing this?

I can, and I am so excited to see what people think. I'm freaking out a little bit. I think everyone's freaking out, but we did it. Yay.

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