Josh Thomas: Are You In The Do Zone? Explore Why Motion Will Get You Nowhere, According To This Entrepreneur

I do really believe 100% from every part of me that everyone has the capacity to be able to do the things that they want and not to be held back by the mental baggage that's in our head that we want to push through.

Welcome to the do the Thing podcast. In each episode, we get down and personal with people who go after the things they want to make all their wildest dreams come true. Join us as we unveil and dissect a formula for what it takes to do the thing. Here is your host, Stacy Lauren.

Hey, everyone. Welcome to the do the Thing podcast. This is your host, Stacy Lauren. So I love getting an opportunity to meet people who are really cool and then introduce you to other really cool people. I had met a mutual friend of our guest that's on coming on Next, and she had referred me to him, and I immediately, once I saw his website and everything he was doing, I was, oh, my gosh, I have got to have you on the do the Thing podcast. And then it kind of worked out even more magically because I was in the middle of developing the Start a Podcast challenge. And he was also perfect to be on the expert panel for that. And so I'm so excited to get a chance to talk to him more about what he does because it's just so aligned with what I'm doing here at do the Thing. And I love getting to talk to people who are on a similar path as me, but going in their own way and then kind of see what can come from it. So I am so excited to welcome Josh Thomas to the show. Hey, Josh.

Hey, Stacy. I'm super happy to be here, and I'm super happy to be doing the thing.

Oh, heck, yeah. I love it.

And I do the thing. I don't know what the thing is, but I'm gonna do it.

It's so cool. I know. It's so funny. Everyone's what is the thing? And it's like, it's really come along as the podcast has evolved, but I realized the is really any kind of change that you want in your life. And I think I'm excited for you to share your background and what you're doing, because I. I feel like it's a little similar in that way, which is really. It's neat because a lot of times people need to hear a message in a 500 different ways before it can connect to them and they can actually do the thing.

You know, you really nailed something there. I have a content writer, and I. What I'm doing is I have a podcast. It's called the Do Zone, by the way, for those of you that are listening. And that's. That's why there's some alignment, because if you're going to do the thing, you get to do the thing in the do zone. But I have this content writer, and what I'm having her do is go back to my previous podcast and extract little nuggets of wisdom from the guests or something that I said that was cool because it's all just sitting there in audio format and some people would just prefer to read it. Maybe I could turn it into a blog post or a video. And so she goes back to the very first podcast interview, and she says, okay, well, I thought I was just gonna pull like three or four things, but I pulled 15. And then I wrote a piece of content for each of those 15 things. But then I realized I was kind of starting to say the same thing just in a slightly different way. And I told her, yeah, you know, that's exactly what you need to be doing. Because that one quote, that one idea is gonna hit one person one way, but that other idea, which is basically the same thing but slightly different perspective, that's going to hit somebody else. And so you almost really need to say things 10, 20, 30, 100 different ways and repurpose it into five or six different formats. You know, whether it be audio or written or hand signals or smoke signals or carrier pigeons or whatever it is that you need to do to get your message to be delivered to the right person in the right way so that they can really digest it and say, oh, now I get it. Yeah.

And, you know, you're saying, what's really coming alive for me now also is sometimes it's the same person that needs to hear it 10 or 15 different ways for finally, for them to just wake up from that trance, right, and go, oh, I get it now. That's happened to me before, where I've heard something a bunch of different times. But just that one slightly different way has been what's been able for me to move on a certain thing.

It's. And I have another example of that. Just what? You were just saying that from the same person. I interviewed a guy on the podcast we caught up afterwards because he had a really interesting business model and he was trying to franchise it. And I was asking him the question. I'm like, do you really want to franchise this? Is that really the best way to go? Couldn't you just find people that have similar businesses that they can just Bolt this on as. As an additional offering. Is that something? And he's like, oh, that's a pretty good idea. Let me think about that. And so I caught up with him today. As a matter of fact, as we're recording this podcast, we had a conversation. We hadn't talked in six months. Hey, how's it going with that business? Yeah, man. I was sitting at this Mastermind a couple of months ago, and one of these guys asked me a question. They said, hey, franchise things. Cool. But why don't you just go find people that have, like, a complimentary business and haven't bolted on? And then it was like, wow, that's a great idea.

Like, he started the first time.

I didn't say anything, but that's exactly what I told you to do six months ago. But. But he. He wasn't ready to receive it when I told him. He needed me to tell him, and then he needed somebody else to tell him the same things so that he could have those stepping stools to really internalize it. And I'm okay. I'm okay. Being the first step in that journey. You know, sometimes you're the first, sometimes you're the last.

I think that's a really. That's a really interesting way to. It happens a lot, I think, for a lot of us. I'd love you to share more about you. So that's where our paths collide was through your podcast, the Zoo Zone. I'd love to kind of just hear your. Your full story. What's been happening for you in.

Oh, yeah, sure. So here's what I will say. I've been an entrepreneur for more than 15 years. I have worked with over 5,000 entrepreneurs directly and helped them at various stages of their journey. Some of them were just starting. Some of them were pretty seasoned and far along. And I started to notice a trend, and the biggest trend was there are a lot of entrepreneurs out there who are stuck. They're stuck, Stacy. They. They're. They're, like, in a big mud pit, and they don't know how to get out. And it always frustrated me. It made me mad. And I couldn't figure out, no matter how hard I try, some of these guys, I just can't pull them out of the mud. I can't get them out. Why? What's the deal? And I started noticing some trends, some very, very common and popular trends. And it usually came in the form of excuses, and it came in the form of enabling phrases and things that allowed us to not do the thing that we needed. To do in order to get the result that we needed to get. And I couldn't put my finger on it because it was too gooey. I couldn't figure out, why are these guys struggling. I know that what they're actually saying to me is kind of crap. I know it's not true, but I can't prove it. And so I basically set out to scientifically prove that people who are procrastinators and responsibility avoiders were actually full of crap. That was my ultimate goal. And I started doing some research, and I went down a bunch of rabbit holes, and I realized I found James Clear. By the way, if you're not familiar with James Clear, he has a book called Atomic Habits. Highly recommend it.

I love that.

One of the best books ever written. And so there's a concept in. In James's book called Motion vs Action. And it was a friend of mine who actually introduced this to me and said she was talking about her boyfriend at the time. She said, he's a motion person. Like, what does that mean? It's. He's a motion person. I need an action person. And then she told me about the book, and that's when I. That's when it was like a light bulb. And so emotion versus action is basically motion is all of those things that you do to make you feel like you are productive, to make you feel like you're getting things done. I'm going to get ready. I'm going to read up and study up on this. I'm going to just ask a few more questions and get a little more comfortable. I'm going to organize my pens and stack my papers together and get everything nice and neat and symmetrical on my desk. It's motion. And then the other side is action. I am doing this. I am taking this action. I am moving this thing to from point A to point B. I am talking to that person that is going to get me to the next step. Action leads to results. Motion leads to fatigue. And most of the entrepreneurs that I encounter are stuck in motion because. Not because they aren't willing to take the action. Not always, but usually because they don't understand that motion is not action. They don't understand that motion does not lead to results. It only fatigues you. And so the goal was very simple. I need to define what it means to be in the do zone, come up with a set of rules that are very objective, so where you understand whether you're actually doing something productive or not. And then I started a podcast about it, and I Went and explored and found other entrepreneurs that were out there doing things, that were making things happen, that were creating results. And that led to this whole other world of discovery where I realized that not only do people need help being productive, but so do their team members, so do their employees. And so we built an entire ecosystem around this called Unbreakable teams. And that's where we go in, and we make sure that you have clarity of purpose as the entrepreneur of what it is you want to accomplish. And then we make sure that your team is bought into that vision, and then we make sure that they do the job that they were assigned and hired to do. It's kind of a little bit of the Blackwater work in between. Like, you're a great leader, and you've got great vision, and you've got great infrastructure, and your team members, your employees, they're well trained, they were well vetted, they're well equipped and well resourced, and they're probably well managed. But unfortunately, they're not robots. And so we have to fill the gap between that strong leadership and that strong delivery with one simple thing. Accountability. And that's been what I've found in more than two years of study and research. I dug into the science, I've talked to a bunch of people, we ran some beta tests, and it all comes down to, is somebody holding you accountable for doing this thing that you said you were going to do? If they are, your chances of completing and being successful with that task are 95% plus. If they're not, your chances of completing and being successful with that task is more like 25% or 1 in 4. And that's the best way that I can sum up the last two years of my life is arriving at that point to be able to share you those last two sentences. That took a lot of digging and a lot of sweat and tears and a couple of yelling, screaming matches. But that's what it really comes down to, is if somebody's holding you accountable for doing the thing you said you were going to do, your chances of doing that are pretty dang high. The problem is, as human beings, we tend to avoid accountability because it puts us in this. It puts us in this action zone, and that makes us uncomfortable.

Yeah, there's so much I want to explore with that because there's. There's a lot there, like from both the personal journey, from the entrepreneurs that you've been helping get unstuck from the mud to being able to help teams right now, because I know that's such a Especially where, I mean, I don't know if we're actually coming out of that great resignation time where finally employees realize, I think employers realize more than ever how valuable employees are to their success now. But I wanted to start with the accountability side of what you said, because, I mean, as you know, that's a piece of the do the thing formula is accountability, and it's such a huge piece to all of us. So what. What have you seen has been the best ways for accountability in terms of. You mentioned having someone hold you accountable. Like, what does that look like? What's the best success someone has when they're doing that?

I like to describe this as a closed loop, a series of closed loops. Think of. Think of a chain, and the chain has this series of closed loops, and they're kind of interlocking a little bit. And that chain is really strong. And you can connect two giant objects with a chain, and it's going to hold it together. So whenever you're. If you've ever owned a boat or have known somebody that has, they connect their trailer with a hitch from the truck to the trailer, but then they always reinforce it with a chain because the chain is like the last line of defense. It's what keeps everything from falling apart, just in case the worst happens. And we can look at accountability loops like a chain. If. If we know that point A and point B have to connect, and we know that the distance between point A and point B is actually pretty big. Let's say you are a small business, and let's say you're earning $3 million in revenue per year, and you want to get to $4 million in revenue per year, that's a 33% increase. That's no small feat. If you don't have any systems in place or any changes in strategies, that's not necessarily easy to do, Tom. It's a big leap. And so if you don't have any systems in place, it's too hard for us to jump from 3 million to 4 million. But what's not too hard is for us to figure out if we know that the goal is from. To get from 3 million to 4 million by the end of the year, how much do we have to do in the next quarter? 250,000. And if we know that 250,000 is where we have to go in the next quarter, how much does that mean for this week? And it comes out to. My math's not great, but it's somewhere around $20,000 a week. Now we. Now we can break this down into a micro goal that says, this week we need to generate $20,000 and we have four employees. Each employee is responsible for $5,000 in revenue. Employee A, let's call him Bob. Hey, Bob, you got to bring in $5,000 of revenue this week. What is your plan and what are the actions you're going to take? And what is the realistic possibility that your actions are going to lead to a $5,000 outcome? We talked to Bob. Bob puts together a plan. He says, this is my goal for this week to bring in $5,000. Here are the tasks I'm going to perform. And then we need to make sure that Bob has all the support and help that he needs to do those things that he committed to doing so that he can hit the goal that he needs to hit by the end of the week. If Bob hits his $5,000 goal and Sally and Jenny and David also hit their goal, then we just close that loop and we can open up the next one next week. And we keep going. We keep going, we keep going. Because if you really think about it, a million dollars is intimidating. $5,000, not intimidating. That's where we break it down into small, measurable micro goals that can be accomplished quickly. Because if we give it too much time, we start to get comfortable with the fact that the deadline is too far away. And if we start thinking about numbers that are too big, we start thinking, well, that's not even. I can't even fathom that. I can't even measure. I can't even count that high. But you can count 5,000, and it might take you a minute. But that's what we want to do, is we want to create those little mini situations. And then we want to hold you accountable for that by saying at the end of the week, on Friday at 2pm we just want you to say, this is what I did. Whether or not you hit the goal is still relevant. What's relevant? Hal Elrod says in the miracle equation, it's not about hitting the goal. It's about becoming the person who can hit the goal. And so if we set you up for success in that environment, then you're becoming the person who can hit that goal. You have the power and the authority and the. And the resources and the support to become that kind of person. We're just creating that structured environment that says, well, win, lose, or draw, on Friday at 2pm you're gonna have to tell us what you did. And you either hit the goal or you didn't. That doesn't matter. What matters is, did you do the thing you said you were gonna do? And if you did, awesome. If you didn't do, that's where we reassess. Okay, next week, do we need to set a more conservative goal or do you need to hustle more? It's probably one of those two, maybe both. But that keeps us on track and it keeps us from veering too far off track because we're only moving one week at a time. Micro goals, a closed loop. And I found that over time, that significantly increases the productivity of a team, it increases the buy in, it increases their loyalty, and ultimately it increases their ability to perform at a higher level overall. So that you, as the business owner, when you think, oh, God, I need more people, you may not need more people, you may just need your people to do more.

Yeah. So that makes me think with that Friday at 2 announcement is. You think the accountability piece is really them having that public announcement of accountability of whether or not they reach the goal?

That has a lot to do with it. There's, there's a, there's a psychological component. There was a, there was a study done that says, if you commit to yourself that you're going to do something, I'm going to take a trip to Greece. Your chances of actually following through on that is about 25%. One out of four. Okay. So if you said you're going to go to Greece every year for the next four years, you're only going to go one of those years. Now, if you commit to somebody else that you're going to do something, Stacy, I'm going to take a trip to Greece and I'm going to take you with me, then the chances of that happening go up substantially. It's actually more like 65%, almost 2/3 certainty that you're going to do this. But here's where it really gets interesting, because if you commit to somebody else and you set a specific appointment to follow through on it, Stacy, I'm going to Greece. I'm taking you with me. And we're going to sit down Saturday at 2pm and we're going to buy the tickets and plan out our trip to the Parthenon. Now, the chances of me following through on that trip to Greece has jumped up to near 100%, 95% plus certainty that I am actually going to follow through and take this trip. All because there's an accountability to an outside party with a specific deadline. And that's really all it is. It's not like wizardry or anything. It's just people want to. People don't want to let other people down and they want to. They're contributing and they're part of the tribe. And when they let the tribe down, they feel bad and they want to avoid that bad feeling. And so either they follow through, they're supposed to, or they avoid putting themselves into those situations. Either way, they are avoiding the discomfort of not doing the thing.

It actually makes me think of what we were talking about right before we hit record and I was like, wait, we have to save this for that. It's that idea. And I think it could help perfectionists too. Right. When you're in that mindset of wanting something. Well, because we all want something to be really good before we put it out or before we do it. But in order to really break through that perfectionist mindset and realize it's better to do it than to have it, or it's better to do it and have it evolve along the way, to have it then to have it perfect before you even start would be potentially doing something like this and making sure someone's on the other end of that thing that you will either be contributing to or doing it with. So then you're. They're having like some buy in and you being able to finish it.

Yes. It's always better to start something and figure it out as you go than to wait till everything's ready. Because if you wait until everything's ready, you are going to be an old man or an old woman full of regret.

I was just wondering what's been your strategy for being able to help people do that?

Great question. The. The first step is very simple. Recognize that you are dealing with a human being and not a machine. Human beings have emotions and feelings and aspirations and goals and insecurities and fears and concerns about the future and trauma from the past. And all of those things are heavily influencing every single decision they make, whether they're at work or at home or somewhere in between. So first and foremost, there are a million tactics and strategies and there's all kinds of psychological research and we can dig into all that stuff if you want. But to keep it really simple, one of the best ways that I can help an employee get on board and bought into a company is just to start by letting them know that I see them. Hey, Bob, how are you? It's nice to meet you. This is what we're here for. We're here to help this company hit this goal. We can talk about that later. But I want to talk about you first. What do you love about your work? What do you wish was a little better about your work? How do you like to work? Do you even really like to work? What is the thing outside of work that really drives you? I want to know about Bob. I want Bob to tell me what's important to him. And I want Bob to understand that. I see that and I hear it. One of the strongest things that you can do to really help people get clarity and create loyalty and buy in and productivity, all of those things. It doesn't have anything to do with a tactic or a technique. It comes down to one word. Acknowledgement. I see you, Bob. You just told me that you got two kids and you want your oldest to be able to go to that fancy out of state college and someday you'd like to retire and move to Idaho. Man, that sounds awesome. What motivated you to want to do that? And now Bob knows that. I see him and I see his dream and I'm acknowledging the existence of that dream. He told me and I just told him what he told me. He just told me what he wanted and I just sent it back to him. It sounds like you want this. Is that right? Yeah, that's right. And that's a lot. You know, you would be surprised how many businesses are out there. How many leaders of businesses don't know the first thing about the people who are driving 80 to 90 to 100% of their revenue and success? They don't know anything. These are human beings. And these human beings are responsible for everything that's happening in your business. And money isn't enough. Money will only take you so far. You can only pay somebody so much, but they're still going to be a human being. And so when you can't pay them anymore, when you've maxed out the pay scale, what's going to keep them showing up to work every day? And the answer is very simple. Knowing that you care.

I really like this. This actually reminds me when I owned my staffing company. I've since exited from the business, but it was during COVID that I was still there. And these people that I've worked with for 20 years all of a sudden were behaving so much differently than I'd ever seen during COVID when it was just how reactive everything was with COVID and the fear and uncertainty. And it was just amazing to see how so many people changed in such a different way. And I think. I think that's when I got a different. I got a different view on. On everything. During that time and hearing you talk, it just makes me think how needed this is for people, because as we've been coming out of these times and people went through such a. I don't want to use the word traumatic because I don't want to put that on people, but such a different experience from having, for those that had to work during it and that were in those businesses considered essential. Their business went from being physical in the office every day to remote or sometimes now they're hybrids, to people that lost their jobs and got new jobs. There's just such a huge shift in the way the world has been working now. And I just. I just love this idea of you being able to take this time and be able to help leaders work through that so that the employees do feel like they're part of something bigger than what that one. What what once was previously meant for.

That's really all it is. I was having a conversation with a very fascinating gentleman named Jeffrey Deptman, who I just interviewed for my podcast. And he goes into businesses and helps build culture. And one of the things that he was referencing was you can build all the structure that you want. Command and control, he called it, from the top down. But the org chart and the departments, all of that stuff on paper is fine. But the only way that a company really works is by following tribal dynamics. There's a tribal leader somewhere in your company, and they may or may not be in a leadership position, but people, human beings, they respond to somebody who is firm and, but caring and nurturing and reinforcing and somebody that creates that structure and that certainty for the people around them. We've been doing that for hundreds of thousands of years. And we didn't just suddenly stop because they invented concrete office buildings. Our brain still operates the same way. And so if you can be that person, if you can be that strong leader but still be nurturing, then they're going to follow you as long as you don't lead them down the wrong path. That's, that's, that's one thing you got to do. But. But people are going to follow you if you show them that they matter to you and you show them that you care.

Yeah, and I'd love to also talk about or talk to the people that are on the other side. I have a lot of people that follow this podcast that are both on the business owner side, either are running businesses or have exited businesses, but I also have a lot of people that are working for people. And so just from the employee standpoint, like, what Would be your advice to the employee maybe working with a company that is that where they want to, where you want them to be able to make their own change within the company or organization if they're seeing something not with the way they want it.

Touchy subject because it could go either way. I'll give you two pieces, two pieces of advice depending on your situation. First and foremost, you always, always need to check the temperature. And what I mean by that is you could be in an environment where that sort of feedback to the leadership or management could backfire and you could suffer some negative consequences from that. That's the risk that you run. And so you need to check the temperature to see, well, is this the type of place that wants to hear from me and would make a change and it would be beneficial not just to me, but also to my coworkers and the company in general. If that is true, then you find the person that you know you can trust the most and you go to them, you say, hey, I've got an issue, I need to bring it up. Can I run this by you off the record and you see what kind of response you get? If that response is not a great response, well, you've, you've tested the waters, you've contained, you've contained the damage. Just say, well, you know, just forget about it and walk away and put some distance between it if you want to keep your job. But if, if you get a positive response, then that's where you can really open up and say, look, I care about this company. I want it to be a great place to work. I don't want to go anywhere. But Sometimes these things, 1, 2, 3, they make me feel less than or whatever the issue is. But I would always start in the most contained environment possible with the person that you trust the most so that just in case it doesn't go the way you want, you still have options. Because there are guys out there that are not so level headed, they're not so educated, but they're still in control of large businesses and they can be very spiteful and that spite usually comes from their own insecurities. So that's where you really have to check the temperature. Is this a company that is willing to embrace criticism and feedback from its employees? Your other option is to not do anything and go find another job. That's always on the table.

But as, I'm sorry, I just wanted to add as you said that with the embracing criticism and if that isn't, and if that's one of your values, and that's not one of their values, then that is where you need to be able to think, is this the right position for me? Because once you see a company's not in your right values and then vice versa for a company and employee, it's pretty much you're wasting your time at that point.

Yep, pretty much. I have several members of my team, and my graphic designer came to me. I. I had. She had created something, and I didn't like it. And I went a little bit off on a tangent about it. I'm like, I don't know why you do this, and you designed this. And I thought I gave you a clear instructions. I don't know. I was in a. I was in a bad mood. So later. It was like a day or two later, we were on the phone, we were talking about something, and she got out whatever we were talking about, and we finished that, and she said, I just want to say something real quick. That thing that you said to me the other day, you told me any time that I had something to say that I should just go ahead and say it. So I'm just going to go ahead and say this. I think you were out of line, and I don't think that that was right, because I did 1, 2, and 3, and you weren't there to follow up on it in time. And then you blame that on me, and I just don't think that's cool. And I was like, dang, you're so right. And she's like, I'm sorry if that offends you, but you told me that whenever I have something to say, that we have radical candor around here. And so you just needed to hear that. I was like, all right. I mean, I have no defense to that. Thank you for your feedback. And. And she was right, man. That was all on me once she pointed it out. Like, damn, you're so right.

Well, yeah. And that's when you know you. When you have a great team member, because. And then also when you're a great owner.

Right.

Because you created this safe space for her to be able to speak her mind, which is really great.

And that's another thing that requires constant reinforcement. Here's the thing. When we build a business, we are not feeding calculations and formulas into a machine with gears and metal pieces. We are feeding those calculations and instructions into organic beings that think and feel and have other priorities. And they have frontal cortex that. That allows them to think abstractly and create future fears and worries that maybe don't even exist. And you can't eliminate that stuff. You just have to be aware of it and navigate it as much as possible. And one of those things is sometimes, sometimes you're, you're also a human being and you're going to screw something up. And you gotta be ready. Like if you're gonna hold your people's feet to the fire, you gotta be not only ready, but you need to embrace and expect and almost command your team to hold your feet to the fire at the same level. Because as soon as you don't, as soon as you put yourself at a different standard, it all starts to crumble.

Yeah. And I wanted to pivot a little bit on the same sort of topic with people that you have that are amazing or that you've seen that are amazing, where they could pretty much create their own business and be a huge success. And they don't. I had this happen. I had people work for me for like 15, 16, 17 years and I was like, why aren't you just opening up your own business? What do you think gets in the way of those people to be able to kind of go on their own? And I don't mean the people that never want to move forward. They've said, oh, it'd be cool to have my own business. And then they just don't do it. What do you think that that stops them from moving forward?

What is the most attractive thing about working for somebody else?

Just the certainty that you're getting paid a certain amount.

There you go. There's a certain. There's a certainty, there's a security, there's a comfort in the thought that whenever I wake up tomorrow, I don't have to figure everything out. I just have to show up and do my job. That's very comforting. And your brain is wired for homeostasis. Your brain is wired to conserve as much energy as possible. Because according to your brain, there's a constant threat of death by saber toothed tigers because we haven't had a firmware upgrade in more than 2 million years. If you haven't seen the Social Dilemma on Netflix, I highly recommend you watch that. But your brain is pre wired to reduce resistance and conserve energy at all times. So exercising is in contra to how your brain wants to operate. Eating healthy is in contra to how your brain wants to operate. That's why we struggle with diet and exercise. Starting a business is very uncomfortable and it is very uncertain. That's why most people won't do it. And that's why most people struggle to get started. It's Kind of the equivalent of, let's go back. Our brains are caveman brains. They are the same exact form and shape and have the same components as caveman's did. Maybe it's a little more sophisticated now, but not too much. And so you've got two things here. You've got. You've got a. A caveman leader, a tribal leader who says, hey, I want you to stay in the cave. People are going to bring berries in. I want you to take the berries, take them off the sticks and put them in these bowls over here. You just come in and you do that every single day. And I'll give you a handful of berries and you can eat. You can share them with your family, or you can say, screw that, I don't like berries. I'm going to go out into the field and I'm going to hunt. Because when I hunt, I might kill a wild boar and I can bring that back and my family will eat and they'll actually enjoy that meal. We'll be really happy and we'll be able to sustain ourselves without sitting in the cave all day. Sounds sexy. Except when you go out to hunt the wild boar, you might get mauled by a saber tooth tiger and die. And so there's a risk involved there. And that risk requires also a significant expenditure of energy that you don't have to do if you're sitting in the cave picking berries. Because you could go out there and you could hunt and you could find nothing and come back with nothing and go to bed hungry. Or you could go and you could run around and you could be successful but not make it back home because you get killed along the way, or you trip and you fall or back. Then there are no hospitals. You break a leg, they're pretty much just going to leave you to die anyway because they can't do anything with you. And so this is how your brain operates. Because your brain has not gotten the new version of the operating system that says there are very few mortal threats left in existence other than apathy and sloth. And so we get stuck in this cycle for the same reason that we struggle to eat right? For the same reason that we don't get up and move enough. Because our brain is always trying to conserve energy and reduce risk.

And what's your fate? You mentioned earlier? To do the thing, be in the do zone, which I love that. And I was just wondering, what's your favorite kind of like, do zone technique for mindset? To be able to move forward and then also to get Unstuck.

I'll give you three rules that you can follow, and they're very simple. Whatever it is that you want to do, you need to make sure that you set aside some tests. First of all, you need a goal. Let me start there. I like smart goals. You can look this up on the Internet. Smart is specific, measurable, achievable, relevant, time bound. Your goal needs to hit all five of those criteria in order to be a goal that can be accomplished. Once you've set your goal, you need to be really clear about the. The measurable part of it. And the best analogy I can give you is let's say you have. You want to take your kids to Disney World. Okay. Disney World is located in Orlando, Florida. And let's say I'm in Austin, Texas. So I'm in Austin, Texas, and I want to take. I want to take the kids to Disney World. Cool. All right. I definitely want to go to Disney World, but if I just stop in Gulf Shores, Alabama, that'll be pretty good, I guess, right? That's close enough. And so if we're not very specific about the destination, it doesn't really make sense. That's why I don't like the saying, shoot for the moon and land among the stars. You weren't trying to get to the stars. You were trying to get to Disney World, and you're settling for Gulf Shores, Alabama. That doesn't make sense. So we have to get real specific about what we want first. And it has to be something achievable, Right? I can drive from Austin to Orlando, and it takes me like, 16, 20 hours, something like that. I could do that. I could plan that trip out. I could make that work. And if I do that and I make all the plans about getting to Disney World, it won't make any sense for me to stop in Gulf Shores and be like, all right, kids, I know I promised you Disney World, but look, it's the ocean. It's close enough, right? They're gonna be like, no. Boo. And so get real specific about the destination that you want to accomplish, and make sure that you're aiming yourself to achieve that. Now, once you've done that, you want to set some tasks, and they need to be micro tasks. As I was speaking earlier, micro goals think about the links in a chain that interloop closed loops. So the first rule of the do zone, in order for you to define whether or not you're in the do zone, is you must be working on a relevant and current project. So this isn't what one of my friends calls Skunk works like some idea that's way off into the future that maybe someday might be relevant. It needs to be immediately relevant and current to whatever it is that's important to you. Now, that's rule number one. And then rule number two is it must have an immediate and measurable outcome. And so if you're performing a task that you cannot measure an outcome for, you're not in the do zone. If you're performing a task that you are not able to create an immediate result for, you're not in the do zone. And then the final rule of the do zone is, whatever you're doing must be objectively observable by a third party. And this is. This is what I call the binge learning rule, or the binge learning exception, I guess, because if here's where most people get trapped, and this was really the original inspiration for the do zone. People get trapped in learning mode. Learning is motion. Learning is not action. Learning is motion, period. You want to start a business, and you want to start a marketing agency. And so you go and you buy a course that teaches you how to start a marketing agency. And it's teaching you how to run the ads, and it's teaching you how to get the clients. And you're watching all of these videos and you're reading all these PDFs, and you're like, oh, man, I'm getting so smart. Wow. But what does an objective third party see? What do they actually see? They see you looking at a computer screen doing nothing. They cannot crack your skull open and see you learn. And so you're not in the do zone. You would be in the do zone. However, if after you completed that course, you went and you opened up a Facebook ads account and you started running Facebook ads and testing. Because me as an objective third party, I can look and I can see that you created an ad regardless of how it's performing. I see that you did something. And that's the point. So rule number one, you must be working on a relevant and current project. Rule number two, it must have an immediate and measurable outcome. And rule number three, it needs to be objectively observable by a third party. If you do those three things, you are in the do zone. If one of those things is not true, you're probably not being as productive as you think you are. And you need to go back and check those rules to make sure that they're true again. But before you do that, you got to get crystal clear on that destination if we're going to Disney World, we don't stop in Gulf Shores.

And what do you think just a quick mindset hack is to be able to kind of even go to that do zone place. Do you have, is there a mantra or is it maybe even them simply saying okay, I'm ready to get into the zoo zone and that helps them like drop in a little bit better.

I think that it comes down to it's basic logic. Right you and when we're talking about micro time frames, you need to create an immediate result. That means I need to do something today. As of this recording, it's five minutes till 3:00pm Central Time. It by by 4:00'. Clock. I want to have a complete piece of content that goes on social media that I can post tomorrow. I just set myself a relevant goal that is immediately achievable and measurable and a third party can observe it. So if we just stick to the logic, what is something that I can do that will hit all three of these goals that will hit all three of these rules today? And just think about today. Don't think about what can I get done this week. Just think about today. What's the thing that I can do today that's going to move me one inch further than where I am right now? I really like that I'm always thinking about that progress, that incremental progress, the closed loops on a chain. As long as you're just trying to get to the next loop on the chain, you're that is going to start compounding the return over time.

Okay Josh, the time is here. What would you say your number one piece of advice for the listeners on doing the thing?

Number one advice for doing the thing has to do with taking the last step. Because you have probably been in many situations where you have thought and maybe even said verbalized out loud. I am 99% of the way there. I just need fill in the blank. I'm 99 of the way there. I just need to check Some references. I'm 99% of the way there. I just need to check this one more thing. I just need to make sure that now's the right time. I just need to make sure I got the budget for this. I just need. I just need. I just need. I'm 99 of the way. There's Will Smith in his book, his biography that just recently came out, he says 99 is the same as zero. If you're going to do 99, go ahead and stay home because it's that last step. That's the one that counts. That last time where you have to pick up your foot and move it forward and lean your body weight towards it and not have any clue if it's going to land or not, but have a reasonable certainty that the laws of physics and gravity and your entire life before you will say, you know what, no matter what happens, your foot's probably going to land on the ground and you'll be okay, even though you don't know. So it's that last step and you're never going to be ready for it. It's never going to feel right. It's always going to be a little bit awkward. But it's that last step over the line that's going to give you the freedom that you seek.

So good. I'd love for you to share where people can learn more about you.

I'm on social media t literally pretty much anywhere you can find me there. Super active on Facebook because I'm old. I'm trying to be more active on Instagram, but it's a little bit of an enigma to me. So if you want to follow me on Instagram and. And boost my ego a little bit, I would certainly appreciate it. And if you are listening there, there are. There are two types of people I would love to connect with one way or another. If you run a business that has employees or team members, I'd love to talk to you. I have nothing to sell you. We do have a service that we offer. It's called Unbreakable Teams. You can learn more about it@unbreakableteams.com. if you are a solo entrepreneur, we've got stuff for you. If you run a team, we've got stuff for you. Just go to unbreakableteams.com and click, I have employees or I'm a solo entrepreneur and I got a little bit of information for you. Set up a call, we'll have a conversation, we'll see where you're at. Let me see if there's some way that I can help you. Regardless of whether or not we do business, that's one group of people I'd love to talk to. The second group of people is if you know people who fit that mold, if you have a network of people like that, if you know somebody with whom this message could resonate, I'd love to talk to you, too. I'd love to create a referral partnership in a way that we could potentially work together to increase our impact. And of course, I'll pay you for your time and efforts as well. So I'd love to talk to either one or both of those groups of people. You can go to unbreakableteams.com to learn more or you can find me anywhere on social media. T literally.

So great. Thank you so much for coming on. This has been really, really amazing, getting a chance to talk to you more. And I'm so excited about the D Zone. I think you have a quiz on your website too, don't you?

Yes, it's. It's called the Dozone DNA that's been around. I. I built that and just kind of stuck it off to the side and so every once in a while somebody shows up and takes it.

Yeah, it looks. It looks super cool. I love the wording of the DNA. Find out your Dozone DNA as. I think I remember seeing that, but that's right. Yeah. Very cool. Thank you so much, Josh.

Thank you. Thanks for listening to the do the Thing podcast. We hope you enjoyed the show. But even more, we hope you'll be inspired to do the Thing. Do you have a burning question on Doing the Thing that you'd like answered? How about an inspiring do the Thing story of your own that you'd like to share? We'd love to hear all about it. Just leave us a voice message at dothething callcast co or email usello the Thing podcast podcast. Com.