Pamela Nichols: This Author And Podcaster Wants You To Unleash Your Potential Through Collaboration, Expansion, And Taking Action

I do really believe 100% from every part of me that everyone has the capacity to be able to do the things that they want and not to be held back by the mental baggage that's in our head that we want to push through.

Welcome to the do the Thing podcast. In each episode, we get down and personal with people who go after the things they want to make all their wildest dreams come true. Join us as we unveil and dissect a formula for what it takes to do the thing. Here is your host, Stacy Lauren.

Hey, everyone. Welcome to the do the Thing podcast. This is your host, Stacy Lauren. Okay, guys, I swear, I love my podcast and I love my community so much that my heart feels like it could be glowing outside of my body with just how much joy I get out of meeting the people inside the group. And this next guest has been someone that has been with me since a challenge number two. And we even just co hosted a challenge together. And she's going into the Start a Podcast challenge. And you guys, it's crazy when you get to work with someone directly the way I've worked with her, and just how much you get to learn from each other and grow together and how that value of the things now she's bringing to me in my life is really coming through. And then it's just been amazing to just be a part of her journey, and then now she's a part of mine too. And so we are just having so much fun together. And the reason why I asked her to come back on is because when I interviewed her on the podcast originally, we talked about her author story and how she's an amazing author and has written several books. And that was the. The. The. That was the challenge that she co hosted with me was the do the Thing Start a Book challenge. But during this challenge phenomenon that we'd been on, I had thought of doing the Start a Podcast challenge earlier. And she was part of that beta group for starting a podcast with everyone else on the Zoom. And I ended up putting the challenge on hold then. And now I'm doing it April 17th. So now it is officially happening, but I put it on hold. But she did not go on hold. She started her podcast. And it's cool because we even have the moment that she created the podcast on the group Zoom that everyone can watch, which is really cool. So we really are documenting her whole story with this podcast. And she has many episodes now. How many? Seven or something? Or six episodes.

Make them up to 10 now.

Oh, my gosh. She has 10 episodes. And it's just when you hear her talk to these guests, it just blows your mind because of the way that she's able to speak to them from her own lived experience and connect to them from the author lens. And so I am so excited to get to talk to her about her starting her podcast. And that's why I wanted to bring her on, was really to talk about what this journey has been like for her and really what's coming up for her now that she's done it. So let's welcome Pamela Nichols back to the show. Hey, Pamela.

Thank you. Hey, sweetie. How are you?

I am great. I'm just so. I just am overjoyed that we're doing this. So let's start off. So let's catch everyone up. So here you are. You're in the group you joined for the dating dare challenge originally.

And here we are.

And here we are. Now. You have a podcast.

Exactly. Exactly. Loving the podcast. Loving it. If you told me three months ago, two months ago, I'd have a podcast, I'd look at you like you were crazy. But here we are.

Yeah. So let's talk about that, because I feel like there's still. It's hard for people to even imagine what that growth can be like and how you can go from not even thinking something's possible or that you even want it, and then all of a sudden, now you have it and you're.

Loving actually comes down to personal development. You take one step, and then the path lightens, and then you just follow your heart. And this is where it is. I adore books. I adore words. I enjoy writing. And then it just seemed natural that I would talk to other writers. And so this is what happened, because I was still trying to figure out what happened. I was in another group, and someone happened to mention a book that was helping her tremendously. She was a domestic abuse survivor, and she mentioned the title of this book. And it just so happens I know the woman who wrote the book. She's a friend of a friend, and we're Facebook friends. So I sent her, and at this point, I was already in your group, and we were closing down, winding down that challenge, and you mentioned, hey, I think we're gonna do a podcast challenge next, because literally, Stacy has a new challenge every time she gets up from a nap.

So.

She mentioned that. So it was in the back of my mind. And then when someone mentioned this book, I reached out to my friend of a friend, the author of the book, and I said, oh, my Gosh, I haven't. A friend of mine mentioned your book and wanted me to tell you personally that. Thank you so much. It helped her. And I gave her that personal message and she says, oh, my goodness, this meant so much to me. And then the wheel started clicking. I said, hey, think about starting a podcast. Would you like to be my first interviewee? And she said, yes. And this woman, now, her book has been translated in six languages. She's done TED talks. Her name is Janine Ladis. She's known for being a premier lecturer on the subject of domestic abuse. The military hires her out. She's wonderful. And she said, yes. That's what got the ball rolling.

Isn't that amazing? Because you wouldn't think that it's that easy to get someone that. But it doesn't seem like it would even be possible or that people would even think that you could do it until something inspires you to be able to do it. And then you have a vehicle to have the conversation.

Exactly. You have the vehicle to have the conversation. And then you'll be surprised at how many people are willing to help you or are passionate about what they are passionate about and want to share it. Yeah.

Okay. I have to share this. This is just coming alive right now. And you just said the whole, I have a new challenge coming up every time I wake up from a nap. And it is really true because so I'm starting. So we just finished the Start A Book challenge. Right. I'm almost starting the Start of Podcast challenge in two weeks. And then I just did the expert panel for the Get Fit challenge yesterday. And that is not even what I'm talking about. This is so funny. So I met this other woman, and I think you might have seen her on the expert panel for the Start a Book challenge. Laura Carney.

Yes.

Wrote the book My Father's List.

And yes.

Yes. Had passed away. Yes, he passed away. And then she found his bucket list. And then she spent five years doing the bucket list. Doing his bucket list, basically to honor him and his memory. And then that in turn, basically released her. Basically because she's learning how to stretch her comfort zone. And I ended up talking to her. Was it yesterday about doing a bucket list challenge? And guess who's going to be on it? Gregory, who's the Dare to Dream podcast. Perfect for that, actually. So perfect. And then she has a few other people that she wants for. And then. And this is. I'm not going to make this a long story, but I have to share it because it's exactly what you just said about Janine.

Then.

I'm in the middle of doing a project with my daughter and her boyfriend where I want to show the do the Thing formula in different applications. And so I was like, oh, can you guys dissect the do the Thing formula in a movie? I want to be able to see how the movie uses the formula. And I was explaining it to them, and we're kind of going through it. And I was like, well, what's a movie that you guys have watched recently? And they said the movie up. This happened yesterday right after I did the Bucket List challenge. And I don't know if you know that movie, but I had forgotten about it. They said it was.

I was thinking I didn't. Yeah, but I remember it. But it fits in that. It does.

Yeah. And so, pretty much, yeah, the guy was closing of retirement, going into retirement home, and then he decided to live the dream that he had with his wife who had passed away to go to, I can't remember where, but some other country. But he wanted to take the house with him because that was something she wanted. And so the whole movie's about them, which is really, like you said, related to the Bucket List. And I'm like, huh? I'm going to reach out to the people that wrote the movie and. And ask them if they want to be part of this expert panel. And honestly, I have no idea what they're going to say. And they might never respond. I don't know if I even care. It's just this idea of I have this vehicle to connect to anyone, which is really similar to what you were just saying with Janine. The whole world now is literally open to us because we have this vehicle.

And that is what I'm learning, too, because like I said, it's about personal development. It has so little to do with the podcast. It's about personal development. It's about the ask to get it out there. There are two or three major people that I have on my list that I'm going to ask. One of them is listen. Now, when I'm riding home from work, I listen to Fresh Air on npr, and I can't think of her name. I think her last name is. Is it Terry Gross? Terry Gross. I am going to call Terry Gross. This woman has won Peabody Awards. She's won all kind of awards on npr. I'm going to ask her, can I interview you on my little podcast? And I bet you she says yes. But if she doesn't say yes, I'm still going to ask.

Yeah.

And there's another author, Dr. Bertice Berry. I've read two really, really good books that she's written and she's got a new one out now and she comes out every morning. She does a live and she just 5 minute, 10 minute talk and I listen to her when I'm at my desk and I'm going to call her and ask her, hey, can I interview you on my podcast?

Yeah.

Because it's not about what they say, it's about what we say, it's about saying it. And again, if you told me three months ago that I'd be considering any of this, I would have said no, you are insane right now. But I'm going to do it. And I'm not even afraid to do it. I'm going to do it. They're going to say yes.

Can we explore this? How did you get to this point? From the point of not even having an idea that this was even something you wanted, something you could do, something that was even on your radar, to now being able to reach out to people and not care if they say no or yes. What do you think it is that helps you get there?

It really is the self development. It really is not looking at, not pigeonholing and not looking at the vehicle. Not looking at the fact that this was a started as a singles challenge. Not looking at the fact that it started as a start the podcast challenge or start the book challenge. That's just the vehicle is what's driving it. It's the engine in there that is changing it for me. This is my. Yes. This is what I do. Even on my podcast, I've got all these. I'm going to have a reader and I think I got this idea from you. I'm going to mention a book and gather some people who have read the book. We're going to sit around and talk about what we absolutely love about the book and then we're going to send it to that author and I want the author to. And then come back on my podcast. I mean, that the first one is going to be Matt Haig, because that midnight library has just blown my mind. Yes.

Oh my gosh, it's so crazy. And then the other thing is once you do it once. Right. So once you get one interview and you once you ask one person and they say yes, then you do the interview, you get the connection point. Let's stay there for a minute before we move on from that, that connection point. Talking to someone about something that you love and something that they love. What is that like for you?

It's an energy I can't describe because once I finish the interview, we're just sitting on zoom talking that there's another 35 minutes right there and we're just chit chatting and we're talking about recipes. There is a connection there. On my interview that I interviewed with John dedeikis. He was. I'm a very big believer in combining. You can know that you're called to do something and have skill, but I still believe you need to get that training. I believe they go hand in hand. And so I've taken some writing classes. He's been my favorite instructor. He. There's a level of empathy there that and professionalism and passion that just when added to his obvious skill because he used to be a writer for the Wolf Blitzer show on cnn. So he's really good and he's my favorite writer. When I stopped, when I ended that interview, our chat was longer than the interview.

Oh, my gosh.

My interview was just under an hour. We talked for an hour and 15 minutes afterwards and it just opened up so, so much. At the end of that interview, he said to me, I think I've made a friend. That's what he said to me. I fell out of my chair. It was very meaningful. So getting back to your question, there are connections made when you're passionate about what they are passionate about. Now he wants to read my book. This. He wants to read my book. I said to him, I'm like, this is like the best, best day ever. What? So it's amazing. He's going to be a writing mentor now. He is going, there's another thing we're going to be involved with together. I got up the other morning. This is such a long answer.

I love this answer.

And this thought about, listen to this. This is how we. I want to do an annual book contest. And so I called him and said, hey, I woke up this morning. I'm thinking about doing an annual book contest. He says, go for it. I'm going to do an annual book contest for new writers. Not book contest, a book award. So I'm going to start out the first. You would just do fiction and nonfiction and you would submit your book. He's going to be on the panel and I have an idea for two other people. We're going to review it. I got to figure out a way where we can do it so that we're not looking at the titles. So we're. We're looking at an anonymous book. And then we're gonna give an award.

Amazing. You're gonna put on the podcast too, right?

I'm gonna put it on the podcast. I actually am. I don't know.

And tell everyone we didn't say the name yet. Say the name and what it really. I mean, I think you're sort of explaining what it is, but let's just make sure they understand.

Yeah. It's called the Healing Words podcast. And I called it Healing Words because my subtitle is the right word at the right time can change your life. And you know, it's gone through several iterations. I've changed it and. But that is what has landed. And the right word at the right time can change your life.

It's so true.

It really is. Sometimes we hear the same message or we get the same thing every now and again, but at some point it all clicks. And to me it just is so fascinating that someone is riding out of their pain, writing out of their concern, writing out of their hurt, and they're putting on paper to help other people and it connects with the right people. That is amazing to me. When I was talking to. When I interviewed John Dedicus and I'm going to give you a bit of his backstory and it's not a secret because he talks about it. His son disappeared for about five days and they found him dead of a drug overdose in this car less than a mile from the house. And he's actually written that into his next to the last book. One of the things he says is lean into your pain. And a lot of times we run from it. Pain is so inevitable and I don't want to rose colored glass it, but leaning into your pain is what helps you heal. Yeah.

Yeah. And it's the opposite of what we're trained to do. Right. We're trained to numb it. And a lot of times, especially from the high achiever mindset, you go in another way. And so I think such a beautiful statement to help people understand. Actually, I was just talking to somebody earlier today about the difference between spiritual bypassing, which is just focusing on the learning, but not falling into what it is and then actually releasing it to it. And I think there's a time to learn from what you have gone through, but it's really where you have to release it first, otherwise you're just getting it.

And healing can be so painful. A friend of mine, it works in mental health and I was chatting with her earlier today because I'm going through my own and I had a little situation at work today and I had to talk to nine year old Pam and get some things straight because she was connecting what happened to work to what happened to her when she was nine years old. And they felt the same, but they were not the same. And I had to walk myself through that. And it was. I was shaky. I was at work. I'm a professional woman, thank you very much. Sitting at my desk, about to tear up. That is how painful it felt. But I'm at the point now where going back to what we're saying, I'm not running from it. I could have shut down, I could have responded in kind, but I didn't do that. I got myself together, talked myself through it, and I had a. I had the conversation that I needed to have. I did the action that I needed to have. And it wasn't anything long and drawn out, but again, because heretofore up until this point, I would numb down or cry or blow up or whatever. This time it was, I don't want to say, just a conversation. It was an action that I needed to take that when I was younger, I was not allowed to take yet. Long story short, so that's what happened today. And so when I have an opportunity to talk to writers who have gone through and are still going through and are willing to put it on paper, that just blesses me so much. I just feel so lucky to be able to be a podcaster. I was talking to Deb, a friend of ours, and one of the symbols in my personal life that we all have things that mean. My girlfriend loves owls because they're so wise. And someone else loves sunflowers. I love lighthouses. And she happened to mention lighthouses. And then she says, pam, you're a lighthouse. I said, I'm a lighthouse. I'm a lighthouse.

And that's what it is, too. And you're radiating it out too. It's such a beautiful visual.

It is such a visual.

Yeah. You might want to add that on your vision board.

I'm going to add that on my vision board.

That'd be good. Yeah. So I would love to hear, where is the confidence coming from for you to just kind of say what you've said where you're like, I'm just going to reach out to this person and not care if they say yes or no. Where is that coming from, do you think?

Because I know this is what I'm supposed to do once you are settled on what you're here for. For a while I was floundering. I didn't know, but writing and books, that's what I'm here for. And so that gives me the confidence to walk up to the head writer at a CNN thing and say, hey to me, or a person that I've been reading forever or someone who's given a TED Talk and whose book has been translated in six languages and say, hey, I do what you do. Because it's basically what I'm. I do what you do. Now, granted, you're here, but that's where the confidence is coming from. I have. I know my why. And when you know your why, to me, it doesn't even matter where you are on the path. You know your why. So you're on the path. So if someone is a little further out the way we think, a little further out on the path than you are, it doesn't matter. You're on the same path. And that's that energy. That's that transfer of energy. And that's what I felt in the each of my podcasts, because I think I've got five or six published, but I've got the other ones behind the window. And you know what I'm talking about when I say that, that I'm still working on. I've learned something new from each one. I've learned something about myself from each one. I've learned something about my calling and I've learned something about writing from each and every one. And that is thrilling. I was listening. Since the wonderful Adam has taught me how to edit now.

Oh, yeah, let's. Let's mention Adam is the Callcast founder, which is the platform that our podcast is based on.

Totally cool guy. Just totally cool guy. And I know, oh my goodness, I asked so many questions, but. And he's willing to answer them over and over again.

He's amazing.

But yes, he taught me how to edit. And I was in there listening to my podcast, about to edit, the one with John de Dacus, the one, the gentleman I'm telling you about. And before that, I was listening to your podcast with Kate Middleton and she was talking about the dynamics that are necessary when you are interviewing how you want to be authentic, how you don't want to be serviced. And I was, I was listening to that when I was talking to John. I can hear in my podcast because I remember what I was thinking, because I was. And sometimes there are pauses. And I thank Kate for saying that, because you've got to. What she said was, you don't want to fill up every single second. Give yourself time to take it in Let that release and make room for what comes next. There's a moment in that interview with John dedeikis where I went silent. And I know the question that I wanted to ask, and it was about the death of his son, but I didn't want it to come off as a gotcha, and I didn't want it to be insensitive. So I heard myself, and I remember myself stopping, and then I said, I have a question, if I may ask. And I think he knew where I was going, because I'm looking at him and he nodded his head and he said, go ahead. And it reminded me so much of what Kate said. They trust you. He trusted me because at that point, we'd already been talking. It was towards the end, I say, a good 35 minutes. And so I asked the question that I asked. And then it led to another follow up where he got a little emotional, but not in a bad way. And the first question I asked is what really stuck out for him in that grief that he was going through? And he took a breath and he stopped to think and he said, just the people that were around, there were people around who didn't know what to say, but they were there. And that was so meaningful to me. He said a few more things, but that was the thing. And to me, I'm hoping that a reader who heard that if they ever have a friend or a family member who's gone through such profound grief that they realized from this man, it's not so much what you say, don't worry about having the right thing to say, just be there. And then I asked him what was his best memory of working with Wolf Blitzer. And there were so many things he could say. He did. He mentioned some things, but then at the end, he stuck on. I was on the phone with Wolf in the airport when his other son and daughter came in. And Wolf got on the phone and spoke to his son and daughter. That was. And he. And before he answered that, he said, I'm going to cry. And he teared up when he said that that was meaningful. Because a lot of times we hear how men don't know how to access that part. And to see these strong, great men give care and receive care, and to be so him, for him to be so willing to say that.

It's such a beautiful thing when you're able to just open up that conversation and then create that safety, but in a way of just coming from your heart, right? And then you're having that connection in that way. And I feel like the podcast does give such a beautiful expression of that when you're doing what you want for you. And that's, I think, one of the biggest things I'm going to be helping people do during the podcast challenge. I don't want you to do something because you think people will want to hear it or it's going to be well listened to or anything. I want it to come from your heart because that's when it's going to be something that lights you up when you wake up and you're going to be like, oh, my gosh, I really get to do this today.

I really get to do this today. It has to be organic. We have a lot of you and I have had conversations about hustle culture, and there are people who are. They're doing this and you. It has to be from your heart.

Yeah. The other thing. That's cool. And I'm also telling people, don't, because we have with Callcast, you can link it up to Chartable and you can see your numbers of who looks at your podcast and how many people watch your episodes. But I don't even want them looking at that for a while, because it does. Number one, it doesn't matter who's listening, because let's say there's 10 people that are listening. Those 10 people are listening. And it's like you said, the right word at the right time can change your life. And I mean, even me, I think of just. Even the community. And I'm gonna just mention a few people. I'm not mentioning everyone, but between all the stuff that you've done and the growth you've had, and Deb and I just talked to Norma on the way back here before this interview. We had this amazing conversation about people pleasing and what the challenges have meant to her and Natalie. And there's just so much growth that I've seen with the people. And it's like, I don't ever need thousands of people to listen. I'm good with 10 or whatever it is because I am doing it from my heart and it's coming out anyway. It's just something that's really coming up. And I feel like, because the podcast challenge is coming, so I'm hearing all the people go, what are the numbers?

And what's this?

It's like, you guys settle down.

Yeah, that's not what it's about. It is so organic. And it's going to be more about you internally than anything else. And I just don't know how to. I'm not overstating that. This is. I didn't even know we could check numbers, but I won't be checking numbers. This is so much about me. I am going to challenge myself to reach out to those people. I'm going to challenge myself to that. I'm going to challenge myself for my reader panels and then reaching out to the writers and so that they can see. Yeah, yeah. It's so much more about you than anything else. Really. Yeah.

Have you noticed yet? Because it's still pretty new for you. So I'm curious if you've noticed yet the messages from the universe as you're talking to someone. Then all of a sudden you start seeing things more during the week that are related to whatever it is that you just talked about, where this door has now been opened. We'll use Dad's podcast term.

Not so much because I. I live in my brain so much. The doors that I see open are internal in me. I haven't out here anything out here. Maybe it's because I feel brave enough to do that and I'm actually connecting to people because actually I don't usually do this much talking because I fairly introverted. I like my alone time. I require lots of downtime because energy sappers. So yes, the doors that I feel opening are doors inside of me because I'm also doing a level of inner healing from some past trauma. So I feel a lot of confirmation. I don't know if vindication is the right word, that I'm on the right path, that I've always been on the right path, that books and words are it. I've got another story from my childhood where everything is just linking up. When I grew up, we didn't have extra money. I think. I don't know if I've said this to you before, but I was in a book, a used bookstore once and for some reason I was in the children's section. I don't know because all my youngest is in college, so I don't know why I was in the children's section. I picked up this children's. I look at this book, I'm like, oh my gosh, I've seen that somewhere. And it was the old book, Mike Mulligan and his Steam Shovel. I don't know if you remember that. I happen to remember that book and I'm flipping through it and then I had a memory of reading this book as a child, even in all of the dysfunction and pain growing up. On the heels of that memory was my fourth grade teacher who was Not a nice person who was not friendly at all. And she was standing in front of me one day, and she handed me back a graded paper of mine, and she said to me, you're a good writer. And that was the only nice thing she ever said to me, period. The gifting that I have inside of me, that's coming up now. I had it back then. I just had some family trauma, some issues that rolled up on each other, but it's coming up now. So in answer to your question, I'm not at the point now where I'm seeing the connections, the universe connections outwardly. I am experiencing them inside.

I think it is that it's like you start to see these dots connect a lot better. And then another example I was thinking, when I asked the question, I was thinking of even just that example I gave you earlier with I talked to the bucket list girl that morning. Then I had given the assignment a week before to my daughter. And then that same day, as the bucket list conversation I had with Laura, they're telling me about the movie up then today, I interviewed Nikki in our group, and she's a principal, and now I'm gonna talk to her and see if maybe that might be something she would want her high school students to do. And we'll see what she says. But it's all these connection points in that way. And then. So there's that side of it in podcasting, and then there's the other side that you were just speaking to, which is these dots connecting from your whole life where you can see all these. Like you were saying where you saw that book, you remembered that conversation, you remembered your teacher saying you were a good writer, and you're starting to see all those points.

Right. And then things like that give me hope and confirmation when I have a feeling that I had at work today, because it's reminding me that everything I need, I've always already had it. Right. And it's the conditioning and the thinking patterns that I need to let go of. And so when something positive like this happens. Yeah, it helps. Honestly, the podcast is actually helping my healing in a bit. Yes. And that gives me hope. So I'm hoping that that hope that they're getting it twofold. They're hearing it.

Yeah.

And then the words as well. The books as well.

Do you think, speaking of just that healing and then going back to even writing, do you think that for the people in the group that are just finished the start a book challeng, that the podcast can really help them even finish their book and help with those connection points that they're doing.

Yeah, I think so. Because your podcast is going to be what you make it. Honestly, you can get on and talk to people. You don't have to publish it if you don't want to. But the act of the ritual of talking to people in whatever category that you're talking in is certainly going to help you. Yes, and we've seen that already in the group because I remember when we started on the podcast, I just became amazed at the depth and the vulnerability there. Yeah. So it is so much beyond the vehicle. It's not the podcast, it's not the book. It's the change that happens in you as you're going along, as you are. And it's little things, too. You're reading what someone else is going through on that page and then you're responding. Is that.

Yeah, that's a good point. You're speaking to a lot of things that I've been saying. So I just love that you're bringing it up because I keep saying it's not about any of these things. The challenges are. It's about what it opens up for you. And like you said, the personal development that you're getting from it. And then each thing is kind of like a vehicle. Okay. Oh, my gosh. We have to go here for a minute. So we have our. We have our singles community. Right. We have the new community, which is everyone, and then we have the singles community. And so there's a group of people in there that I love and adore and have been kind of going through the challenges that are just like, listen, Stacy, I love you, but I don't want to join the start a podcast challenge. I want to do the dating challenge when it comes up. And I'm fine. I just know the growth that's going to happen from it. So I'm trying to be like, I just want you to come to the live and see what it's going to be like. Because it's not about the podcast, but in my mind, if someone goes through kind of like the find your voice challenge, did the start a book challenge, and then they do the startup podcast challenge, and then they go back and do the dating challenge, they're going to approach that dating challenge in the craziest way and say, I want to speak to.

Exactly. Again, it's all about the self development. Because you're going to get so far outside of the sort of podcast thing. I mean, you're training your brain, and I am in such a Different place mentally and emotionally than I was when I started this challenge. I literally feel like there is nothing that I cannot do. I'm not even joking. I feel like a total. I don't know if I can say that over here. I just know that I can do whatever I want to do and that I have people around me. There are resources there. I can call Deb. I can call you. I can call Adam. That does something for me. For someone who has been so sheltered and so traumatized and so locked in for so long, that has nothing to do with the podcast, but I got that through the challenges. That's what I'm saying. And so when I was in the Find the Voice challenge, and I. You know, Mike, and on the page every day and saying what they. It just. There's safety. There's safety there. There's vulnerability there, and that leads to strength, and that leads to inner growth. So then it seemed natural that I would just do the next challenge. And so whatever the next challenge was, I'm gonna do this next challenge, and that is what it is. When you interviewed me, and I don't know if they've read you interviewed me about my vision board for the gentleman that I wanted to meet. Since I've talked to you, I've had three more things to that point. It's just sharpening. There's a sharpening there. And that vision board, to me, was very clear in what I wanted. But two or three more things have come up, and it's not that I am being picky. It is because there's been a change inwardly. And that means that when this gentleman shows up, this thing is going to be required. Whereas before, all I just wanted was a gentleman to show up. Okay. So, yeah, I would strongly encourage those in the singles community that just come on board. Just come on board. If you don't want to start a podcast, be willing to. Or let it be known that you're willing to be interviewed for someone else's podcast.

That's a really good idea.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you need to be able to talk to people on the fly. Because when you meet that handsome person in the Kroger produce department, which is my dream, you're gonna have to know how to say something. You're gonna have to know how to talk. You're gonna have to know how to decipher energy. You're gonna have to know how to respond. I mean, we watched way too many movies. It's not like Lifetime. I think Lifetime has murders now, but it's not like Hallmark where you're just standing there and the person looks at you and you fall in love and you blink and now you're a couple. There's some work to be done there. And these challenges are the perfect place to do that. They're free, they're easy. You're doing it around safe people. It's perfect. It's an absolute win. Win. I've saved so much money in co pays that will be spending with my counselor by being in this group.

I love that. I love that.

So, yes, I would say if you're single, you're saying, I'm not here for that. Yeah, you are here for that. You're here for a reason. This. This is what you're here for.

When you say the thing about the co pays and the counseling and this being that, because I hear that a lot and I'm just wondering, what do you think about the challenges helps you get to that point.

It's not a knock against counseling. I'm all for it. But that counselor is someone that you hire. And it just feels different when I don't know these people. But they're here for me. They're totally here for me. I'm going to take a day off from work when Deb comes running through here and we're going to hang out and she says she's going to get a hotel, but I hope she sleeps here. We're going to drink wine and watch tv. That's better than a counseling session. You know, we have so much in common, and I would not have met her were it not here. I think that's the point of making. Counseling is fine and wonderful, but it's you and that counselor. This is a group of people on the same path that you are on, and they know exactly what you're talking about and what you're going through. And we've seen it in the group. I've seen people say things in that group that I know they've never said to someone else. And you only do that in safety. Safety is important to me because I've had a lot of emotional violence in my life. And so I can discern when I'm dealing with a safe person. And if I'm not dealing with a safe person, my energy and my connectedness is so different. So that's what I meant. This is. This is not counseling. Yeah, but you totally get the benefit.

Yeah. I think you really spoke to that community aspect of the my people and why. It's this bubble of just amazing people that are like you said doing the same thing as you want the same thing. And so that kind of puts you in a whole nother level of connectedness, right? Yeah. I would love to hear what you're hoping for yourself during the Start a podcast challenge. Because you already have a podcast. It's on Apple, it's on Spotify. You're going. You've got 10 episodes. You're moving. You can actually go to CNN and interviews.

I'm still coming to the challenge every night. Every night I'm going to be there. I'm still. Because like I said earlier, I don't care how gifted or well you're managing what you are called to manage. I still feel like the training and the background and the support needs to be there. I will never get to a point in my life where I'm like, okay, whatever it is, whether I'm writing, because, you know, I do consulting and I do some other things, I'm never going to get to the point where I've got this. I can coast now. I'm always going to be getting some training and getting some help because I want to move forward. I want to move forward. I want one day to someone to say, oh, my gosh, I have a chance to interview Pam Nichols. I'm kind of nervous about that. And I'm like, come on, interview me. Yeah, listen, I wish somebody would say, pam, I want to interview you, but I'm so nervous. First of all, I would lose my mind. And then second of all, I would go out of my way to make sure that is the best interview they have ever had, period.

Yeah. Yeah.

Because I want them to go past me and interview somebody else.

Yeah.

I want them to feel like, hey, I interviewed Pam Nichols, so I can interview Viola now. Viola Davis, because I interview Pam.

You just said something really important, too, is that idea of how every time you're interviewing someone, you're building the confidence and you're building the skills to then be able to use that for the next thing. And that reminds me of when you do the annual book award. And once you do something like that, or you do that book club idea where you're bringing people on and you're talking about the book, and then you get to gift the author with that beautiful episode and those skills, then who knows, right, what's going to happen? Because once you kind of keep building these skills of even new things, the world just keeps opening up to you even more.

It's almost like, I don't want to say challenge, but that's the word that Comes up for me, the universe or God or whatever you call it, if you step through this door, another door is going to open and then you step through that door and another door is going to open.

Yeah.

And suppose I had said, I'm not here for all that, I just want the singles challenge. I wouldn't be doing this. But because I am doing this, when Mr. Right shows up, there's going to be levels to him because they're now levels to me. See what I'm saying?

I totally see what you're saying.

Yeah. Because I'm not. I'm not going to attract somebody's not not doing anything. Somebody. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah. And in my mind also, you're gifted with the whole idea of you could go up to anyone, or if someone comes up to you, you're just already there.

And I see it again outside of this, when I had to go and have a conversation with my boss today after sitting in the bathroom stall and getting myself together, of course, grounding and all that stuff. It is because I've learned the give and take. I've learned that I can handle any kind of conversation. I can start a conversation and depending on what that person says, I know where to go. Whereas before I was so frightened because of some of the conditioning I've had and pain I've been through that I'm afraid to start a conversation because this person may say something that's going to break my heart and then I don't know what to say after that. I don't want to hear what they say now. I'm going to say what I'm going to say. You're going to say what you're going to say and then I'm going to say what I'm going to say. You know what I'm saying?

Totally. Yeah.

And it's not going to be harsh because we are mature people. When I had my debriefing with my girlfriend, who is actually a mental health professional, I was saying to her, okay, so after I got 9 year old Pam straight, so then I'm starting to wonder, so why did he say that to me? She says, doesn't matter why he said that to you. You set your boundary, you handle it graciously. And you all walked away from that conversation on the same page.

Amazing.

I got that from the start, the podcast challenge. Not from my therapist, I got that from the challenge.

And the challenge hasn't even started yet. Which is funny because I remember I kept starting it and then, and then what you're speaking to is exactly why I kept sort of waiting for it to start and I postponed it and then I did the find your voice instead, which then led to the start of book. It's because I felt like people weren't ready yet. And so it's been that we're going back to that self development and being able to meet people where they are. And I love that we have your whole journey really documented. It's so cool because it's so rare that people can do that. Where I remember, I think it was you right where you're starting and then you're zooming out. Like, you set up your podcast in call cast. Then your zoom was so we didn't even know what happened. And then. But you had set it up. And so we have your whole journey documented.

We have been like, from the first, I just. It just felt right. And again, I'm a person who needs safety. It felt safe.

Yeah.

And I was like, okay, I'm gonna do this. Zoom kicked me out. So I'll just sit. And then randomly, hey, I can help you. I'm like, I already got it, girl. Got it, got it. So, yeah, yeah, it's been awesome. And I forgot that that is. Yeah, that was very wise now that I think about it. I had forgotten that you put it off and started two different podcasts. And you were right. We were not ready then. Yeah, yeah.

And you were brave, too, because remember, that was the zoom that we did. That was a pre zoom. Just because people. When I postponed it, people didn't want to wait. Some people didn't want to wait. And you were one of the people that were like, oh, I'm interested. And then you were brave by being willing to be the one that everyone sees. Set it up. And was there anything in there? Do you remember what went through your mind and why you were able to say, yes, I'm ready to do this in front of people watching.

Because again, when you are doing what you're called to do, there is a bravery, there's courage there that I don't have words for because the name has changed. The tagline of change. My podcast cover has changed because I didn't like. And I moved some things around. I wasn't. I was more interested in getting started on something that I felt that I should be doing than getting it right. I think if I had waited until I knew how to do this and knew how to do that and knew how to do that, I don't think I would have done it. I felt the support I asked you a question and you said, I don't know, we can get Adam on. Adam just shows up whenever we need him, we just call him. And Adam shows up. In my last interview, poor guy, he was so sick. I think his sinuses were going off. And then again, I don't have Apple. I have a PC and that interface is different. And we had to work through there. By the time he got off, I was recording and slicing and doing all kind of things. And I am someone who all I can do is plug it in and press a button.

It's so cool, because I remember even there was something with the upload and you messaged me and then he immediately updated the whole thing where now it even takes MP4s too. And it originally took. And so he's super quick with that stuff too. So it's like by you doing this because it's so rare that a software developer will get such active feedback from a community, but because I think our community is so tight, it's so easy for us to be able to say, hey, this is what we need. And then he's able to just adapt it right away, which is really cool.

Exactly. And yes. And the last one we had, because I don't have Apple, he had to go and find a certain thing that would talk. And he did it.

So cool. So when you mentioned being called to do something, what does that feel like? What's someone listening to that? And they can't even comprehend what that is yet because they're still maybe in their head and not from their heart. What does that feel like for you? And what do you think you would tell them?

Okay, this is what calling feels like to me when I am reading a good book. I mean, it is written where everything is everything is everything. When I'm reading a good book, it's difficult for me because I'm reading it as a reader and I'm like, oh, my God, what happens next? But then if it's really good, there's a switch that flips in my brain and I'm reading as a writer and I'm like, that is the perfect word. Oh, my God, this is excellent. So. And I flip back. It's difficult because I'm flipping back and forth. Sometimes I just close the book and say, listen, just read this book, okay? And stop critiquing it. When you are close to or you're in the atmosphere of your calling, you feel it. You know exactly what's going on. You don't. You may not have every single word, but you know exactly what's going on. If you are called to be a photographer and you're coming at it now as a hobby, when you look at other folks work, you can tell, nope, that's not working. I don't know any photography phrases. But you just. It's instinctive because it's in there. If you are called to sing or do poetry, whatever it is, you feel a visceral reaction when you're in there. And so. So that's the good part. The bad part is when you try to do it yourself. You might get caught in that perfectionism trap, but you have to. You have to get past that. That's going to come. Your proficiency will come. There's a road to get there. So the calling feels like awareness and acknowledgement and it's energy that you can feel. And it also comes with the knowledge that I don't have to be perfect at it. I've got it. I got this because deep down inside, I can talk some crap about writing. Yeah, I can do that. Because I know that I can do it. Yeah. And I know that I can do it. And I don't say that out of any ego. I know that I can do this. And the other thing is, you're not rushing it, but the main thing, this is how you really know what you're calling. You cannot walk away from it. You cannot. Sometimes I get. And I've shared this in the group before. The last book that I wrote, book number four, I was writing about a subject that was actually happening in my personal life. And it was a call for me, I believe, to deal with that. There was some disharmony in my family. I almost stopped writing, period. I almost stopped writing that book. I remember calling my editor and like, I can't do this. I want to skip it because it's a five book. And I wanted to skip number four and do number five. And she says, you will not skip number four. And it took me a lot longer. I'm trying to remember, I think it was a year, because I had to process what I was going through because I wanted that story to read correctly, and I wanted the energy of that story to be correct. And it took me a long time. And I remember more than once saying, forget this. I'm not doing this. I could not let it go. And I was willing to go through what I had to go through to get that story written.

Ashley Blow.

And the lesson I learned from that story has changed my life. It has helped me come to terms with the pain that I was going through as I was writing the story. And that makes it. It's like a big old circle, because that makes sense. Because I feel like I found the answer to that trouble I was going through that makes me want to get that book out there even more. So to answer your question, you know what your calling is. If you light up and whatever light up means to you when you're in the presence of it, when you are not worried about perfection, you'll do it half wrong. But you just know this is what you're supposed to do. You just know this, and you're not rushed about it, and you cannot walk away from it. I will be writing or reading books or talking to people about writing and reading books until I leave this earth. I have no doubt about that. And when I work it all out so I can do it full time, I can walk away from the job that I love. Yes. So that's what calling feels like to me.

Yeah. This feels like a good time to tell them about your consulting service, because this is something that is happening now. And it's, like, been amazing. And just so the listeners know, so Pamela co hosted the start a book challenge with me because she was the reason why we even did that challenge. Because during the dare that was given during find your voice, one of the dares was, if you were to write a book, what book would you write? And then with the feedback that we got from the community and the recordings and the notes and just all the books people wanted to write, Pamela was moved to say, hey, an author, if you guys want some help, I'd love to help you. And then we then created a challenge out of it. And one of the giveaways during the challenge was an hour of consulting with Pamela, which was basically helping people get out of their head and into their heart. And then the cool thing was, oh, my gosh, guess what happened to me during this challenge. It's so cool when you go through something as it's happening, But I had to pick the subtitle for my book as, you know, Boredie the thing, and I got so paralyzed. And I think it was because it's so final with everything. With do the thing. It's been great because it evolves when I can change it. And I build in public, and it doesn't matter because it's like, I can change everything you see with the podcast. Right? Okay, you don't like that name? Change the name. You don't like the image? Change the name with the book. It's final. Right. And so I just got really in my head and I reached out to you and you were gracious and said, yes, let's have this. This conversation. And we spent. I think we spent even more than an hour. I feel like we spent a couple hours together, and you were able to literally pull everything out of my head of what do the thing meant to me and how this work is so meaningful. And then all what we were talking about earlier, all these connection points that I hadn't even thought about. And it was such a beautiful, just way for me to express where I was at in this process by just being able to talk to you. So you are definitely skilled at pulling it out of the head to your heart. And then I even asked you, now that you have a podcast, I asked you if you would do consulting for them, too. And so we're excited we're going to be offering some of Pamela's consulting during the startup podcast challenge because it is really easy to get stuck in your head. And I'd love you just to speak a little bit about the consulting that you're doing, just in addition to what I said.

Okay. And thank you for that very much. It's called Heart to Page, because a lot of times we do get it stuck in our head. And it's a brainstorming session. It's an hour. And of the women that I've spoken to in the group, I don't think any of us have gone an hour. One lady, I was on the phone with her for two hours because other things kept coming up. But let me tell you, aside from writing, this is my favorite piece. It really is, because I see it so clearly. And there are some questions. We have to get the ball rolling. And we start down this street and we, oh, nope, we gotta go down this street. I don't know why it appeals to me so much or why I like it so much, but I really, really do. Yeah. There are questions that you go through. And I've said this to you, Pru. I really believe we. It's in there. It was in you. It's using yours, for example, you just had to cut off all the other stuff. Just cut out and all the other stuff and get focused, and it just rose and then it might change again, but you're clearer on what you want.

That's exactly what it did. It provided me so much clarity. And then we had a few messages after that. Cause I was telling you that I was frustrated with myself because I started asking people for advice, and I went to this whole other place of like an old pattern that I used to have. And it was such a good experience being able to work with you, because what it did was it helped me get in touch with what I wanted again and be able to really pull out what was most meaningful for me. And then when I finally came up with the subtitle, I remember sending you a message and saying, don't call my baby ugly. And then you were hilarious back. But, yeah, so. And you didn't. You were like, it's great. But, yeah, because it's such a beast. Baby. It is. It feels like a baby. Right. When you're like, it landed. And then it felt it in my heart, and it just felt so right. I didn't have to ask anyone at that point. I was almost hesitant telling people what it was because I didn't want their opinion at that point because it just felt right with me.

Exactly. And I remember that called, we talked about when you gave me the baby's name, and remember what I said? The struggle is necessary. Because you kept saying, I can't believe I went through all of that.

And then.

The struggle is necessary. The struggle is how you know you've arrived at the right place. Because it all falls off when I am struggling with something in my story or a title, or whatever, and I'm like, oh, it doesn't feel right. And then what happens is I get halfway there, but I still feel it. I'm like, oh, my God. And then the answer comes. I know when the answer comes because the struggle is gone. So that's why I don't mind the struggle. Yeah, that struggle lets me know that something's wrong. The struggle lets you know that something is wrong and you're working it out. And when you get there and it falls off, there is no way anyone can ever tell you that you're titling your subtitle or not. Correct? Yeah, because of the struggle you went through to get there.

And it's true, because I protected it for at least, I think, a week before I told anyone else about it, because I just didn't want the external kind of invalidation or validation or whatever would come. And I think you were one of the first ones that I told. And I think that's what's so important, especially thinking about the sort of podcast challenge, people are going to be like, how's the name? How is the image? And in my opinion, I feel like there's a time to get people's feedback. Right. Like when I went to you, and it's not like you were giving Me, the name. You were helping me get it out of my head of what do the thing was and the picture that surrounds it. And then you grabbed it out of me. And then we were able to brainstorm off of that. And I think there's. Sometimes people might say, oh, do this or do that, but then that's their idea. That's not coming from you.

Yeah. Yes. That reminds me of two things, really. One of them being, and we've talked about this too, and you've mentioned coaching before, and I've had some experience with coaches, and that's one of the caveats I've noticed when they give their help, it's always what has worked for them. And I have unfortunately had a conversation or two with people with coaches who get quite unnice when you don't do exactly what they have prescribed. And now I'm understanding is because they don't have anything else. They only know what they did. And if it worked for them, they think it's going to work for you. They're not really releasing you to make your own decisions and come to your own ending of it. They're giving you a pattern to go by that leads back to their success. That's not coaching. That's not coaching. A real coach, a real teacher, a real instructor is going to release what is already in you. They're not going to have you leave that interaction and think, oh, my gosh, I can't wait till Tuesday, my appointment at Tuesday so she can tell me what to do. A real coach is going to empower you to trust yourself and do the work to come to your conclusion. That's the difference. That's the difference. You are always the source. Everyone else is the resource. That's the difference.

Oh, my gosh, Pamela, that is gold. Okay, love that.

I always end up playing shame, but that's. That's exactly what it said that before.

You are the source and everyone else is the resource. I haven't heard that before. That is so good. And then the. The releasing what's inside of you. We have it, document it, right here. We're quoting it. Pamela Nichols.

But that's it. And that is why when you arrived at that answer, you knew.

Yeah.

Because you arrived at it. I didn't tell you that answer. No one gave you that. You arrived at answer. And you will be the one to change it if it needs to be changed.

Yeah. So good. I'd love to hear what is coming alive for you right now after this conversation we're having today.

Just that I'M going to be writing a whole lot of more books because I just am on fire right now. This is what I want to do. This is what I want to do. This is what I am going to do. I'm getting to the place where. Okay, so what has stopped me before is what I did not know. Because, you know, I've been toiling over my website and trying to do this. I've allowed what I did not know to be fueled by some of the negative conditioning. So those two things together. But what I'm learning is what I do know is so much more vast than what I don't know. What I don't know is this much. What I do know is this much. But I haven't been. What I do know is intangible. It's not what I can see. And that's what has been throwing me off. What I did not know was how to. How to create a website. I could have somebody create a website for me.

Yeah.

I did not know how to start a podcast. I've got Adam's email now. See what I'm saying? The things that I don't know were the tangible things. The things that I do know, how to connect with people, how to get outside of myself, who is safe, the questions to ask, the fact that I don't have to be perfect to just get out there. That's this big.

Yeah.

And I'd been focused on the wrong thing. I'd been focused on the wrong thing. I think a lot of us do that. We focus on what we don't know and don't have. I pronounce his name wrong. He was a philosopher and author, Albert Camus. He has a quote because I'm a quote girl that says, in the middle of my winter, I found within me an invincible summer.

Mm.

And this is. A man has really gone through some stuff. One of the things of coming out of these challenges, and I've mentioned that before, is I'm coming to myself. I'm finding out who I am, and who I am is not who I thought I was. I have in me everything that I need. I was born with it. And what I don't have in me, I can get from Stacy or Deb or Adam, the people that I've connected. That's why it's so amazing, because, again, it had nothing to do with the podcast or writing the book. It's the internal. Those are the tangibles. It's the internal. It's the internal.

I'd love to hear what would be your number One piece of advice for the listeners on doing the thing.

Okay, so just go on and do the thing. I got really busy. I know the first one I was in, I did some of the challenges, but I didn't. If I was not able to do a challenge, I still showed up and I still would talk in the page. I would still answer. Get as involved as you can as your schedule allows. That is very important. Don't fall out if you. Because I came late. That first challenge wasn't a long challenge and I came late the third or fourth day I think just jumped in. So give it your all, get in there, stay connected and do the thing. Do the challenges. You decide what your commitment is going to be. If you could do half of the challenges, you can do every other day challenge. If you're not able to do challenges, then support the people who are. Give them good feedback. If something comes up in your life while you're doing this, post a meme in there. Just get as involved as you can and then watch that door open and just walk wherever that path takes you.

I am just so thrilled that you said that because there's some people that will say, especially right now, even with the start of podcast challenge, because there's been activity since we did the pre challenge zoom and some people set up their podcasts already and there's a few people that have texted me saying, oh, it's too late, it already started. And I'm like, no, it hasn't started yet. But even if it did start, it doesn't matter. Just show up where you can, but at least just show up and do something. And whether it's just supporting the group and the community and the other people doing it or coming on the Facebook Live and doing that, I think you're going to get something from it. So I'm glad that you said that because. And this is a muscle, this isn't just about me saying do, do the thing challenge. It's about that all or nothing muscle that so many of us have. And it's such a good example of flexing the muscle and just showing up where you can and doing what you can. Because that's gonna go into other areas of your life too.

I keep saying it, but they're going to have to experience it. This is going to be, this is going to far outweigh whatever happens on Monday night. It is going to leak is the only word coming out. But it's going to come up in your personal life. And this such a life lesson because we all have plans we all have dreams. We all think this is going to happen, but then it doesn't happen. Okay? So you don't shut down. You modify. You still move forward. You move forward slower, or you get on another street or you get from your car into a bus. You still move forward. So when I was going through the challenge this time, I had my personal trauma I was dealing with. I got my edits back. I finished the fourth book and got my edits back. I started the podcast. I was starting the fifth book, and I'm still in training at my corporate job. I had all of those things done.

Oh, my gosh.

So one of the challenges, I came in late. I did a few challenges.

Yeah.

And then I just responded to everybody else on the Start a Book challenge. I don't recall doing any challenges. I don't think I did. Or maybe I did one or two. But then it started getting busy. Some days I would be off, and then I'd come back the next day and say something to Colette or say something to Dev and answer or post a meme, because that was the level of involvement that I could do. It's a life lesson. It's not an all or nothing. It's a set, your intention. Start moving. When it changes, you change. When it flips, you flip. But just hang on and just stay in there and see where it's going to take you, because it's going to take you somewhere.

What's coming alive for me right now, as you mentioned, being called to be a writer. Right. And to write. And I feel like it's like a spoke. Right. And for the listeners listening, I'm holding my hands up in a weird way, but I'm about to do a spoke. But it's like you have the writing as your foundation, but then you have all these things spurning from it, from you writing books, you helping people write their book, but coming from inside of them, doing your podcast now, you're going to be helping people with their podcast, and then you're doing the yearly award thing, and then you're going to be doing the book club. So it's like you have this core, and that's what's. What's cool. It's evolving as you go. You don't even know what it's going to mean. But at the core, it's the writing, and then everything else is spurning from that.

Exactly. Exactly. That's exactly what's going on. I'm here for the ride. I'm going to walk through whatever door opens. I have Two great stories to tell. I was interviewed on online women's magazine and she asked about the book and I was telling her about the book. And so we finished and she actually had a. An engineer. So it was the three of us. He was behind there handling everything. Okay, so we're finished. She ordered my book while she was interviewing.

Oh, my God.

While she was interviewing me. Then she hired me to edit her online women's newsletter for the next couple months and she wants me to be on the next one. And then I've got the job editing it. Then the gentleman who was an engineer offered me a talk show because he actually has online radio.

Oh, wow.

So he's got a spot open, a slot open.

Yeah.

He says you'll be perfect for it. Just go ahead and do it. So I know I'm not going to do that because I don't feel called to do that and I'm kind of busy. But again, all of this comes back to a challenge. You're going to attract what you need to sustain and grow your thing. Because before this, I was doing it all on my own. I was making Facebook posts. Instagram is too crazy for me. TikTok, forget about it. It's just too much for my brain. So I was doing all of that and the other world was getting out there, but it is getting out there more now. I'm reaching more people now. And then again, it's not so much the reach or the numbers. It feels like an unflowering now. And you can see this because the other thing was your dream. But doesn't it feel different now when you hear the buy in, when you hear how it's helping people? It's not the numbers, it's that it's accomplishing what you wanted it to accomplish.

Yeah. I'm so just blown away and touched by the impact that people are having with it that I can't even. I mean, it sounds really hokey when I say, like I can't even breathe sometimes. It gets me so excited to see it, so I couldn't even imagine. And I thought it was going to be about the book. I thought I was doing all this research and then the book would come out. And then one of my things on my vision board is this book changed my life. Right. I mean, I'm excited for the book, but it's not even about the book anymore. I'm already impacting without the book. And eventually I will have the book. But the book was what powered it. That was the vehicle. If we want to go back to the vehicle that powered it. And the book's not even out yet, girl.

It's the energy. It was supposed to happen, and it's just bringing you along. And that switch, when that switch happens, because now, now writing is always going to be the main thing. It's the car. But the way it's working now is kind of down on the list.

Yeah.

And when I say it's down on the list, I don't mean that it's not important, because I'm always going to write. But helping other people, the consulting and the editing and the. The podcast, the actual connecting with the other people, that's up there, and then it's the writing.

Yeah.

It's so weird because like you said, the book started it, but then there was a switch.

Yeah, the expansion.

That does not frighten me at all. There was a time where I just needed to know that I was in control of what was going on in my life. I've got the skills to handle whatever comes up. So. Yeah.

Well, please share with everyone where they can learn about you, your podcast, your books, your consulting, all the things.

Okay, so my website is www.pamelarites.org, and it's P A M E L A W R I T E S. And once you go there, there's a page for the books and the consulting and the podcast. And my podcast is the Healing Words podcast, and that's on Coldcast and also on Apple and Spotify.

Amazing.

This is actually my launch month. I started back in March or February, started the ball rolling, but I wanted to give myself time, and I said I would launch it on April 1st. I almost did because I had to talk to Adam, and now I have one or two things to do, but it is on call. Cast.

Amazing. Thank you so much for doing this with me. I am just overjoyed with you.

I am likewise overjoyed. So glad to have met your acquaintance. So glad. I'm down for whatever challenge you do, because I know it's not about the challenge. So I'm showing up for the Get Fit challenge next.

Yes, that is magic. And then for those of you that are going to hear this and that are on the fence about joining the do the Thing, Start a podcast challenge, which starts April 17. Just do what Pamela said and just check it out and feel. Feel free to be a lurker. At least check it out and decide where you feel you fit in terms of what you want to do.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Just show up, send us a little chat saying, hey, I'm a lurker. I heard the Thing. I just want to see what it's about. Yes, just come on and look and remember.

Do the thing. Don't wait for opportunity. Create it.

Thanks for listening to the do the Thing podcast. We hope you enjoyed the show. But even more, we hope you'll be inspired to do the Thing. Do you have a burning question on Doing the Thing that you'd like answered? How about an inspiring do the Thing story of your own that you'd like to share? We'd love to hear all about it. Just leave us a voice message at do the Thing callcast co or email us@helloothethingpodcast.com.