Shannon Leiderman: Learn Why Beyonce, Serena Williams, Victoria Beckham, And Hugh Jackman Are On This Management Consultant's Inner Hype Squad

I do really believe 100% from every part of me that everyone has the capacity to be able to do the things that they want and not to be held back by the mental baggage that's in our head that we want to push through.

Welcome to the do the Thing podcast. In each episode, we get down and personal with people who go after the things they want to make all their wildest dreams come true. Join us as we we unveil and dissect a formula for what it takes to do the thing. Here is your host, Stacy Lauren.

Hey, everyone. Welcome to the do the Thing podcast. This is your host, Stacy Lauren. So I love being able to do things that are really uncomfortable and then getting to meet other people that are doing things that are also really uncomfortable. That's actually how I met my next guest is I've told you guys how I recently joined Toastmasters, and not only did I join one club, I joined two clubs because I can't always go to each one on a day. So I figured in order for me to be consistent and do it as frequently as I want, I would join two clubs. So anyway, I met my next guest at one of the clubs and she also was brand new at it as well. And already in the very first time, I think she went up for one of the things that she did. She just blew me away with something she said and I won't spill it in the intro. We'll get into it as we talk through it through the episode. But I just thought it I had to bring her on to be able to kind of, number one, talk about her background, because when I looked her up after we sort of got to talking, we have similar backgrounds and parallel things, so I thought that would be fun. And then also talking about the specific things she mentioned during her time up during the table topics portion of the Toastmasters meeting. That really just struck me as something you guys needed to hear. And then also even getting into why she joined Toastmasters in the first place, because I do think Toastmasters has been something I wanted to do for years and years and years, and it took me forever to join. And I love that she also kind of just went through that same thing by joining. So I'm here welcoming Shannon to the show. Hey, Shannon.

Hi, Stacy. Thank you so much for having me. Really excited and grateful to be here and happy New Year.

I know, right? Oh, I just realized you're in. You're my first interview for 2023. That's exc. That is so cool. It's funny. I actually Took a few weeks off. And so you're actually my first interview for the last few weeks, which is kind of cool, too.

So thank you. I'm really honored to be here.

Yay. Well, why don't we start off, and if you don't mind just sharing with the listeners about you and your story, and then we can kind of take it from there.

Yeah. I can tell you a little bit about this journey I've been on the past couple years, which led me to Toastmasters and led me to putting a lot of intention and effort and into building my confidence and working on my mental wellness. This journey, I would say, starts around 2019, when my sister, who I've always been really close to, started fighting a really, really devastating battle with alcoholism. And I do have her permission to share this, and she's currently thriving in recovery. So there is a happy ending to this story. And I won't go too much into the details, because it's not really my story to tell. But speaking from my perspective, this was a very traumatic experience for me, and those were some really incredibly dark days in my life. And I think anyone who's ever been in a situation where they love someone who's suffering from addiction just knows how mentally, physically, emotionally draining it can be. You know, there's these roller coasters of emotions you go through from having hope, losing faith, feeling like you're getting somewhere, then watching everything crash and burn. And there's just this constant nagging fear in the back of your mind that this person could literally die any day, and there's nothing you can do about it. And it's really not easy. Makes it really difficult to be present and enjoy life. And it's also extremely isolating, is what I found. A lot of people just don't really understand. And unfortunately, there's still just such a stigma surrounding addiction, alcoholism. So when you do tell people, instead of being met with compassion and sympathy, a lot of the time, it's actually judgment, and that just makes things even harder to endure. So, yeah, I actually want to pause here and say that I don't consider myself a victim in this. I know that my sister was the one who was ultimately suffering the most, and I was kind of just collateral damage and all of this, but it was all consuming really chaotic time in my life, and I just kind of reached a point where I found that I was no longer prioritizing myself or my mental health. And I felt like I was just kind of losing my confidence and losing my grip on life and came to this point Where I knew I had to make some really big changes and take action to heal from all of this trauma. So I felt like I was just kind of being pulled deeper and deeper into this black hole and reached a place where I couldn't even help my sister anymore. Because you can't save someone from drowning when your own raft is filling with water. You know what I mean? So just had to make some changes to get my head screwed on right. And what I ended up doing was just making a lot of small lifestyle changes. The first thing I did was actually quit drinking myself. I found that I had a lot of cognitive dissonance with consuming alcohol after seeing how much it really destroyed my sister's life. And I just couldn't really reconcile that disconnect anymore. So I gave it up two years ago. Would never go back to it. I really like experiencing life with a clear mind, and that is actually something that's given me a lot more confidence. Also started a daily meditation practice, started reading up on Buddhism and trying to integrate some of those principles into my life. I started journaling, which has honestly been life changing for me and has just really helped me be able to untangle my thoughts and my anxiety and just feel more grounded. I also did a little exercise to identify my personal values and really start aligning my life to those things. And what I found in doing all of these things, yes, my mental health really started to improve. My anxiety really started to subside. But as kind of an unexpected side effect, I saw that my confidence just really started to skyrocket. And what I've realized going through this experience is your. Your confidence is kind of your immune system. When it's strong and healthy, it can protect you from all these toxic things that the world throws at you. It can protect you from unhealthy people that might try to seep in and get you unhealthy. And if it's weak, just if you have a weak immune system, it's really easy for toxins to kind of seep in and get you sick or infected people to spread their illness to you. If your confidence is weak, it's really easy for everything in life to kind of break you down further. So the thing about an immune system is you have to proactively take steps to really maintain it and strengthen it. You know, you have to get enough sleep, you have to eat healthy food, maybe take vitamin C supplements. And similarly, confidence is just something that you have to continuously work on building and rebuilding. You can't just wait for confidence to come to you. You have to really start to manifest it within yourself. And that usually means figuring out what tools are most helpful to you in really making sure that you integrate those in your daily life and make them a priority. So all these little things that I started doing were kind of getting enough sleep or eating healthy food, how those positively impact your immune system. All these little things were really starting to build up my confidence. And then in. At the beginning of last year, I decided to take things one step further and I set an intention, try new things that would me outside of my comfort zone and builds my confidence anymore even more. And before I found Toastmasters, this intention actually led me to taking an improv class, which is something that was way out of my comfort zone at the time, but ended up being such an amazing blessing in so many ways. I didn't know this when I signed up, but as part of the class, we actually had to do a performance in front of a real audience who actually bought tickets to be there. And our first performance, because we had to do a few. The first one was after only probably three or four classes. So I remember just standing backstage behind the velvet curtains and just being so unbelievably nervous. With improv, you can't plan anything in advance. You have no idea what's going to happen. So I was literally shaking from nerves, had that pit in my stomach, felt like I was going to throw up. But before we went on stage, the instructor told my entire class to look every single person in the eye and say, I got your back. So literally went down the line with my 15 or so classmates and told them all, I got your back. And they said the same thing to me. And it was just such a great feeling going on stage because I knew I wasn't alone. I knew I had this whole crew of people who had my back. And once I was on stage, the way it works is they would have people perform in pairs, and the rest of the class would stand behind you. So as I was performing in front of a small but intimidating audience, I had all these people literally standing behind me, cheering me on, rooting for me, laughing at everything I said, even when it wasn't funny. And it was just this really amazing feeling. Even though this was one of the scariest, most vulnerable things I've ever done, I. I honestly probably bombed my first performance, but I had never felt more supported, and I just really wanted to bottle up that sense of empowerment so that I could tap into it in the future when I needed a little extra encouragement.

Isn't it amazing? So I. We're like. We live these, like parallel lives. I just finished a comedy workshop. Not improv, but sounds similar, where it was like a four or five week class and then we did a performance. And I just felt like that was such a huge. A huge thing. It's cool when you can just go completely outside your comfort zone and then be with other people that are also doing something outside of their comfort zone. There's some kind of synergy in that. And especially from going from feeling isolated from everything that you were going through with your sister, having that piece of connectedness probably felt really, really good.

Yeah. I've honestly never even thought about that before. The kind of swing of the pendulum from going from feeling kind of lonely and isolated in that experience to having this group of people that. Yeah. I felt an unbelievable sense of community and solidarity in doing something that was really outside of our comfort zone. I never thought of that before. That's really interesting.

Yeah. And I love that idea of you all looking at each other in the eye before you went out there and saying, I got your back. Like, what a. Trying to think of the word. Yeah. It just had to be. It's like resonating is coming up, but that's not the right word. But just reassuring. Like just a really reassuring moment where you're able to just feel like you're part of something.

Absolutely, Stacey. Because I think especially, you know, when you're on stage, the spotlight's on you, you can barely even see the audience because it's so bright. It would be really, really easy to feel completely alone and like a deer caught in the headlights and just really, really scared. So that small practice of saying that to each other, I just knew that I wasn't alone up there on stage. I had this whole group of people that wanted to see me, see me succeed. And I think what the really cool realization I had was, once I was on stage and I knew all these people were behind me, supporting me, I realized it wasn't just the people behind me, it was also the audience who wanted me to succeed. Because I think in general, people want to see other people succeed. People normally are rooting for other people. You don't want other people to fail. So that was a really nice realization too, that I was in this room with a whole bunch of people that wanted to see me kill it on stage.

Yeah. What do you think helped you just kind of like, let go of that? I don't think you use the word fear, so I don't want to put the word fear in your mouth, but just that getting out of your comfort zone to be able to make that leap, to do this.

First of all, I would definitely say I was feeling fear, so that's a valid assumption. Yeah. I think the first thing it comes down to is knowing I have the support, like I said, from my classmates behind me. And then I also just think believing in myself and that confidence has to come from within. And I think all the other things that I had been doing leading up to this point, like giving up drinking, journaling, meditating, really working on myself, I think that kind of gave me that inner confidence to know that I can do hard things, I can go out there and. And get outside my comfort zone. And even if I fail miserably, it'll still be a learning experience that I'll grow from.

Yeah, I love that you brought that up, because there's so many people that think do the thing is doing that really scary, audacious goal that they always dreamed of. And yes, that is true. It is. But it's also a lot of people have that language, right. Where you go after that big dream, and then you go for it. But until you can actually do these little things and build your confidence up, feel like you can do that big thing, it's hard. And so I think the way you did it, by starting with all these little things and kind of following through with things that you said you wanted to do and being able to do them, then all of a sudden, it gets. Your reach, gets bigger with the things that you're able to do.

Yes. I love that. And I think it all goes back to the analogy of confidence being an immune system. If you have a weak immune system, you're not going to be able to fix it overnight, but you have to just start doing the little, tiny things that is going to lead to the bigger things.

Totally. I'd love to talk more about that if. If you're comfortable. That shift that happened when you were kind of at the worst of it with your sister and you finally realized that you had to make a change. What do you think? Because there is that hard piece of being able to surrender. Right. And realize that you have no control in a situation. So I'm imagining that that part was hard. So what. How do you think you. You got from that feeling to be able to start making the changes in your life, to realize that you needed to get yourself out of the drowning?

Yeah. Honestly, I think the turning point for me is I reached a point when I realized that I was not equipped to help my sister anymore. And I had to make the really difficult decision of kind of loving her from afar, which is honestly sometimes the best thing you can do for someone who's struggling with ADD addiction or alcoholism. You know, you don't do it to punish the other person, but to protect yourself. So I. I had to make that incredibly hard decision. And when I did that, I didn't want to just kind of detach myself from the situation and go on living my life. I wanted to take that time and the new kind of mental capacity that I found myself with to really deeply focus on myself and just focus that time on getting as mentally healthy and strong as possible and kind of essentially regaining control of my own life. So I think when you've invested so much time and energy into a stressful situation or to another person who really needs your help, and then you kind of remove yourself from that, you have a lot more time to kind of refocus that energy on something else. And in this case, I decided to pivot and focus that energy on myself.

Yeah, that's so good. And so then how did you get yourself to stop drinking and then start these daily habits? Habits with the daily meditation and journaling? How did, how did that work for you?

Yeah, I kind of just decided to focus on one thing at a time, and once I mastered one thing and made one thing a habit, then move on to the next thing. So the first thing I did was quit drinking because I just knew that there's no way I could commit to a daily meditation practice or journaling if I was still clouding my mind with alcohol. So I honestly quit cold turkey and just never went back. It was really easy for me. And I'll preface this by saying that I know it's not easy for everyone, especially people who have real addictions and might need some more support. But for me, I just. I started reading a lot of books about kind of the dangers of alcohol and all of that, and just really tried to shift my perspective and not see it as like this fun, carefree thing, but as something that really can have negative consequences on your life and your health and basically everything. So once I was able to kind of shift my perspective, it became really, really easy because I just didn't see alcohol the same way anymore. And then from there I was once I was really clear minded. That's when I was able to commit to a daily meditation practice. And that meditation is honestly something that I've gone back and forth with for so many years. But it wasn't until I quit Drinking and really made this commitment to focus on myself that I was able to. To stick with it and with meditation specifically. I know that for a lot of people, myself included, it can be a little bit daunting at first to think about sitting there for 20 minutes a day meditating. So I just started really small. I first just started with one minute meditations. Once that felt really natural and comfortable, I increased it to two and just kind of started working on building that up over time.

I love that. How did you. With all these things you were adding into your life, how did you track it? How did you hold yourself accountable?

Yeah, I. So like I said, I'm really into journaling. And once I started doing all of this is when I picked. Really picked up journaling. And I. I don't know if you're familiar with the bullet journal method, but it's. There's not lines in these bullets, there's grids. So there's a lot more you can do with it. And you can actually build in little habit trackers. So I started doing that. So having. I don't know, it's. It's just very satisfying to have a habit tracker and then be able to check it off at the end of the day that like, yes, I meditated. Yes, I journaled. So that's how I kind of started keeping myself accountable. And then over time, it just becomes a habit. And now it's. I wake up and I meditate and I don't think twice about it. It's just what I do. Brushing my teeth in the morning.

That's so cool. I love that word. And it becomes like unconscious almost. So it's not even like you're burning energy on having to do it because you already. It's part of your automatic mindset.

Yeah. And it kind of shifts from being something that you do is draining your energy and that you have to bring more energy to the table to get the momentum to do it to something that actually gives you energy. Because now I can't imagine starting my morning without meditation because it does give me that boost I need to go about my day, so.

Good. And what did you do with the personal values exercise? What did that look like for you?

Yeah. So I'm sure we'll get to this. But I'm actually a management consultant, and some of the work that I do is helping corporations define their purpose, mission, vision, values. And when I work with clients, I take them through this values exercise where I have groups kind of brainstorm and look back at times where they felt like they were really in sync with their team, or when a project went exceptionally well, or a time where they felt really proud. And then to kind of pick it apart and figure out, like, what were the values that were present during this moment that made this so successful and made things go so smoothly? And then the converse of it. What was a time where things didn't go well or a project was not successful, and what were the values that were missing? So taking that design thinking approach kind of helps people figure out, like, what values are actually important to my company, my corporation, what is actually going to lead to our success. So I actually took that exercise and did it for myself. And I just listed out some of my most amazing special memories over the past five or ten years of my lifetimes when I really felt happy and alive and just super satisfied with life. And then I really looked at those and started identifying what values were present during those moments. What are things that really matter to me and make me feel good with life? And then the converse of that. What were some of my worst moments that I don't like to think about? And what values were really missing from those moments. And from there, I was able to create a list of values to align my life to.

I love that so much because I think values is what everything comes down to, from relationships to finding the right job, to even what you want to do, even doing the thing right. Because it's so easy to get into a comparison trap, being able to look at others. But when you can really identify what your own values are, then you're able to really get more aligned to the things that you want.

Absolutely. And I think that it also helps build your confidence, surprisingly, because when I think when you start living a life that is aligned with your values and you finally, you're becoming this person you want to be and living to your full potential, that's a really empowering feeling. So I think figuring out your values and aligning to it is actually one of those tools that can help boost your confidence.

Yeah. I don't know if you had a chance yet to talk to Gregory, the president of our Toastmasters Club, but he has a podcast called Dare to Dream, and he. I've had him on the. On the show before, and he talks about. And I don't remember if it was on my episode with him on his podcast or if it was the one that he did with mine, but he talks about having, like, we all have this mask, right, that we're wearing, and until we can take the mask off and be our truest self is when we're really going to be living a life for ourselves. Otherwise we're going to be attracting people at the mask we're wearing. It's. If we're not wearing our own true mask, then the people that are coming into our life are going to be whatever that mask shows. He says a lot better than me. But it's just that I think it's that same idea of really kind of getting into what you want. So then you're, you're bringing that in.

Wow. Yeah, I love that. And I think you brought up a really good point about surrounding yourself with the right people and people that align with your values and support you. And I think that's another thing I've really learned over the past few years is the importance of choosing your friends wisely and making sure you're surrounding yourself with people that lift you up and inspire you to be a better person. Yeah, I'd love to.

While we're here, I'd love to talk more about what you do because you're, you have a unique position by helping people with this. So maybe just like in terms of seeing when they're doing the thing and when they're not doing the thing, because that was something I noticed. I owned a staffing company for 20 years and that's when I got obsessed with like, with all this stuff because I got to see so many people not doing the thing and what would hold them back and why they wouldn't go for the job or the promotion or start the business. It really kind of helped me get a 10,000 foot view over people and like patterns that would get in people's way. And so you probably have a similar kind of idea when you're, when you're talking to people. I was just kind of curious if we can kind of go there a little bit.

Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, as I said, I'm a management consultant and I specialize in the people side of business. So everything from internal communications, company culture, change management, purpose and values, development, challenge management, all of those things. And to answer your question, every time I engage with a new client, they, I work for a firm, so they always contact our firm because they normally have a specific problem within the company that they're trying to solve or a specific goal. And I always like to dig a little deeper and just find out the actual why behind this, the actual motivation. Because a lot of the time it's not what people think it is. And from there we can actually start figuring out like what, what is a, a real way to tackle this problem. For example, if a company comes to us and they, they want to, for example, improve their diversity inclusion strategy and we try and dig to the core of why they want to do that, a lot of it comes down to people just want to feel happier and more empowered at work. And yes, DEI is a really important element of that. But how can. But then we think about how can we transform their culture to make it a better place just overall and make the company just better for people overall. Because when a company is good for people and people are happy and satisfied, then the company is going to naturally become more successful in the long run. So to answer your question, whenever I engage with a consulting client, I just try and ask why and just get several layers deep of their why.

Since you're digging into it, it makes it easier when it comes to implementing that process change that you're going to be doing. Otherwise it's hard for them to fall into whatever that new thing you're implementing. It might sound good from one level and something they want to do, but until they get into why they want to do it is when it'll actually get implemented.

Exactly. Thank you for articulating them.

What do you think? You mentioned getting into their why. What's kind of. I'm kind of obsessed with this right now and I was just, I just had on a couple people that I had worked with with my company. Like what was it? I think like a month ago and I haven't published the episode yet, but we were talking about, about the why and I had recently learned about seven levels of why where you basically like act your four year old and you're but why, but why to yourself. You know, when you're doing something new. And then we used to, with my company, we used to do, we call it peeling the onion. Because when you're interviewing people, you get superficial answers with a lot of things until you can actually ask more questions is when you really get to find out how they're specifically know how to do something. And so anyway, one of the people, one of my past employees had had connected it together and they're like, yeah, when you peel the onion, you're crying. I love that thing of getting to the why. Almost wants to make them cry. That's how bad they want it. So my question is like what is your, what is your strategy for that to be able to help them get in there and really kind of uncover it for themselves.

Yeah, I think taking a very similar approach to your onion or the was it the seven Levels of why I. So I do in my work. I do a lot of stakeholder interviews and focus groups and I like to go into each one thinking of the answers I'm going to get as kind of an iceberg. So you have the top of the iceberg, which are the really obvious answers that you know you're going to get. But there's so much more below the surface. And I like to say that an interview or a focus group was not successful unless I uncover some nugget of insight that I didn't even think to ask. So I think the goal of having these conversations should be to get to that place because there's the things you, you know, you know the things you know you don't know, and there's the things you don't know, you don't know. And the goal should always be to dig into the things you don't know you don't know. If that makes sense.

Totally. Yeah. That's brilliant. Do you. So are they, are you doing it with them or is it a self reflective exercise that they're doing Normally, I.

Mean we do a variety of exercises, but normally the work we do is interviews and focus groups. So we're guiding them through. And I also facilitate design thinking workshops quite a bit, which are my favorite thing to do because I think attacking or tackling a question from different angles, unexpected angles, and getting people to think about things differently, that's when those real nuggets of insight rise to the top.

I have to say I love that name. Design Thinking workshop. Is that you or is that something that's out there in the sphere that I just haven't heard about yet?

Oh yeah, it's something that's out there and you can do online classes for it. I did a certification through idou and it was really great. And I think similar to the benefits I got from improv with kind of expanding my mind and my creativity, design thinking and learning about this process did the same thing for me. It's just an incredibly interesting and new way of approaching problems. Yeah.

What's kind of the highlight of it? How do you approach problems differently?

Yeah. So it's taking more of a human centered approach to innovation and just asking questions differently. So for example, I was recently doing a purpose project with a freelance client and instead of going into the meeting and asking why does your company exist? What problem are you trying to solve? Because that you're going to get the obvious answer that they've been saying for years and stuff. So instead I'll go in and have them actually draw a stick figure and say that that is now a superhero that represents their business. And then I'll ask things like, what evils is your superhero trying to fight in the world? What are their kryptonites? Things like that. And just asking things more creatively. It just really opens the floodgates for some creative problem solving and some creative ideas that you wouldn't get if you just asked it, asked a pointed question.

I think that's just a really great way to almost reframe and get you into a whole other portal of the way your brain's working.

Yes.

So what about before we move on? Because I want to get into Toastmasters too. But like, what. What about mindset? How do you approach mindset with the people that you work with?

I think it really kind of depends on the client and the project and the problem we're trying to solve. But I think in general, I consider myself a creative at heart. So I like to kind of go into things first with divergent thinking and just trying to get any and all idea out there and just be creative as possible. Inspire people to just think super outside of the box. Another one of my favorite exercises that I do is called Worst Idea Ever. And this is when we'll actually brainstorm the absolute worst idea to a project. And the more over the top, the better. And people really get a kick out of this and have a lot of fun coming up with the worst idea ever to whatever problem they're trying to solve. But then we can look at all of those worst ideas and start kind of trying to figure out what is the inverse of that. And that a lot of the time reveals a lot of creative ideas that we would have never even considered if we were just doing a normal brainstorm. So, yeah, my approach is to just really get people thinking outside of the box and starting with that divergent thinking. And then we can kind of move on to convergent thinking and start identifying like, what are the ideas that are really going to have legs.

Yeah, I love that. Worst idea ever. Oh my gosh. I'm gonna play around with that a little bit. That is so cool because you're. A lot of people are like afraid of looking dumb, right. And so you're almost now giving them permission to be whoever they are and not worry about what people are thinking of them because it's. You're asking them to give you the worst idea ever.

Yeah. And it's. It's funny how creative people can get with that question. I've seen some really Hilarious things that end up leading to a really great breakthrough. So it's definitely a fun one. The other thing I'll say about my approach to consulting specifically is ever since I took the improv class, I've really tried to apply all the different principles of improv. So yes, anding, you know, you don't want to shut down anybody's idea. You want to build and build and build off ideas. Because even an idea that doesn't really work, you might be able to pull something from that and build upon it into something that does work that's really creative. And I think also just deep listening is really important, not being attached to the outcome, but just really listening and pivoting when needed. In improv, you might have an idea in your head of how a scene is going to go and then your partner could say something that completely changes the trajectory of the scene and you just have to go with it. You have to just, just drop your preconceived idea of how you thought it was going to go and just move on and have fun with it. And then I think the last thing is making your partner look good. As a consultant, I really think that it's my job to make my clients shine and just be okay with the fact that I'm not going to get recognition for this work. They're the ones who are going to get recognition and it's just my job to make them look good and to reach the best possible outcome for them.

I was curious too. With your goals with your clients, are you doing it similar with them as you did for yourself, like with the bullet journal? Is that where you got that idea from? Or what approach do they have for, for doing goals?

Like for setting project goals?

Yeah. So like if you're giving them certain tasks or they're coming up, so I'm imagining them going through that, that process with the design thinking workshop and then the worst idea ever and then there's like a list that's coming from that. Right. With things to do. And so then how does that get done then? What's kind of the strategy used for that?

I think again, it would really depend on the client because we always like to try and use whatever tools they're comfortable with. So if they're using Asana, we'll make sure we set things up in Asana. If they're using Trello, we'll use Trello. So it really looks differently. But for any project I work on, I really like to think of the long term journey. So they might just be engaging with Us for one small project, one piece of what I would consider to be a longer journey. So I always try and get them to think of like the long term. Why? Maybe this is just step one on a longer journey, a longer process. And what does that future vision that we're going towards in the next three, five, maybe even ten years look like?

You're getting them to almost picture like a vision, a vision exercise, essentially. Yeah, that's great. And then are you holding them accountable or are they doing it with their team? Do you have to almost like follow up with them to make sure they do the things they say they're going to do or is that something that they're doing internally with the company?

It kind of depends. If, if it is a client that we have a long term engagement with, then we'll absolutely hold them accountable. But sometimes we're just responsible for getting the strategy in place and then our scop kind of ends. And I always do. Even if it's not in scope for us to follow up and keep them accountable, I'll still email them because I find myself getting really personally invested in these projects and I, I want to see the outcome that we're helping them strive for.

Oh, I had a question too. Going back to mindset, when you have, and I mentioned it earlier, but I wanted to make sure to address this specifically because I think the perfectionist is the hardest person to move. Do you have a strategy for that person to be able to help them flex the muscle of being okay, having something not be absolutely perfect so they're not in that analysis? Paralysis?

Ooh, that. That is a great question. And it's funny because I recently worked on this change management project for a really big software company and they had several teams on their side that were part of this. And I've never seen decision paralysis to the extreme of this project. And I think it. Because there were so many people involved and there wasn't the one person who was kind of accountable for making decisions. So we would just have these meetings of just going in circles and then we would land on a decision, but two days later we would go back on it. And yeah, I think what I learned from that is because whenever we weren't able to make a decision with the client, it really impacted the rest of the timeline and things at the end started being such a scramble because of it. So I think that when I'm working with a client that, yeah, might be a perfectionist, might have decision paralysis, I try and just show them what the implications are going to be on the rest of the project if they fail to move forward at a certain point in time, because ultimately they're really concerned about the final result. So I think helping them make the connection of moments in time and decisions, a specific point and how it's going to impact the final result is a pretty. Pretty successful tactic.

So, okay, now we're getting into Toastmasters. So you did the improv workshop and then what made you decide to then also join Toastmasters?

Yeah, so I think, you know, as a consultant, I do a lot of presentations, and I just really wanted to continue working on my presentation skills and public speaking skills in general. Speaking and communicating verbally hasn't always been one of my strengths, and it's actually been an area where I've really struggled in the past, and I've had to put a lot of intention to improving the way I express myself verbally. And I think confidence is probably 90% of that. I think that's the one thing that you need to work on, but then the other part of it is practice. Before I joined Toastmasters, I actually did a public speaking workshop, and I learned a lot of really great skills and just things to work on. And I remember I asked the instructor, I was like, okay, if I have a presentation coming up for work, what is the best way to prepare and practice for that? And he told me, he was like, don't wait for moments in time like that to practice. He's like, you should always be practicing, and you should just always be working on this. So when that big presentation does come up, you're already prepared and you don't even have to think about it. So after that workshop, I came home and I immediately googled Toastmasters in my area and found the club where we met.

So what was the question again at the table topic where you came up with that. That amazing thing that I'm, oh, my God, I have to talk to you and bring you on my podcast, if I remember correctly.

So the theme of the day was superheroes, and the question I was asked was, if you had a superpower, what would it be? And I came up in front of the group, and I was super nervous, not gonna lie. And I really just said the first thing that came to mind. And I think this goes back to some of the things we've been talking about with supporting other people and having other people support you. But I thought if I had a superpower, I would want to be, like, the ultimate hype woman and just really hype other people up and fight the evils. Of insecurity and lack of confidence that eat so many people away in this world. So then I kind of dug deep and thought about one of my other tools I use when I need kind of an extra boost of confidence or self esteem. And that's the idea of an imaginary hype squad.

Can you explain what that. What you.

If.

Do you remember how you said it? Because it was so good.

Yeah. Yeah. So first I'll just kind of talk about how I got this whole idea. So going back to that improv performance when we all looked each other in the eye and said, I got your back. And then we went out on stage and the whole class was behind me as I was performing. I felt so empowered by that. And I thought, wow, this is really amazing. I wish I could always have this. And a few months later, I was actually interviewing for a job that I really wanted and I was really nervous and just kept thinking back to that moment when all my classmates were cheering me on. And I was like, I wish I could have them all here doing that during this interview. And then I kind of just had an aha moment. I was like, I can have an imaginary group of people behind me cheering me on and rooting for me. So I just made up this imaginary hype squad, and I can tell you who's on my hype squad in a minute. But when I went up that day for table topics at Toastmasters, I imagine that group behind me cheering me on. So it was just really natural that I basically introduced my hype squad to the group and introduced this whole idea of having that imaginary group behind you that is always rooting for you and cheering for you when you are feeling a little bit nervous.

Yeah, I just think that is so cool because how many times do we want to have our own hype squad? What is the chatter? A lot of times that goes through people's head, I can't do this or I'm not going to be able to or why am I even trying or whatever that is that a lot of people have going on that mental chatter. And the hype Squad is kind of just flipping the script completely and just making it even like a fun kind of chatter in a way. I just. I just. And I liked the way you presented it too. And for those of you that are listening, that haven't gone to Toastmasters before, Table Topics is basically something where you have a theme of the day and then they. The person that prepares the topics has the questions, and then you have no idea what the question is going to be. Until you get up there and you. And you say it. So this was totally just like off the cuff. And then when Shannon got up there, it was. It was like so freaking cool because you. You talked about it and then. Yeah, share who your hype squad was. Because that's the thing that I have in memory because I think it was even Beyonce was part of your hype squad too.

Oh, yeah. I mean, Beyonce, I think deserves a spot on everybody's hype squad. She runs the world. She's just amazing. But so my hype squad kind of changes depending on what I need. But right now it's. There's four people and they all kind of serve a distinct purpose. So obviously Beyonce, no explanation necessary for that. She really reminds me to be confident and to be fierce. The second person is Serena Williams. I think she is just the epitome of female empowerment. She's just. Just such a force of a woman. And my sister and I played tennis growing up, so as the younger sister, I always cheered for Serena and now she is essentially cheering for me. But she really reminds me to be strong. The third person is Victoria Beckham. I think she is just such a badass in a kind of subtle way. Like, she's fierce, she's fearless, she's really composed and she reminds me to be poised and level headed. And then lastly, I'm all about girl power, but I thought I would make my hype squad gender inclusive. So I actually have Hugh Jackman. I know it's kind of random, but not Wolverine. Hugh Jackman. I always picture greatest showman Hugh Jackman where he's like singing and tap dancing in a bar with Zac Efron. I think he just brings such a sense of fun and just a reminder to have fun and not take myself too seriously, which I think everyone needs to remember. So, yeah, anytime I'm doing something scary or outside of my comfort zone or just like need that extra boost of self confidence, I just imagine Serena, Victoria, Beyonce and Hugh Jackman just cheering me on. And like you said, you know, everybody has that inner critic. And I think this is just a really great tool for replacing that inner critic with an inner cheerleader.

Yeah, I love this so much. How do you get in the mindset to bring them out? You know, like, imagine. How does that work for you?

Oh, that's a good question. I mean, I literally just picture them behind me, cheering my name, saying really funny, cheeky things. Hugh Jackman just smiling and laughing and cheering for me and anything I. Anything I can imagine to get me to Just smile and feel pumped up, Up.

That's.

That's what I picture.

So good. So, okay, Shannon, the time is here. What is your number one piece of advice for the listeners on doing the thing?

Oh, okay. Well, really fast. Hopefully this isn't too long of an explanation, but I think the one thing I would want to leave your listeners with is that the hype squad is. The imaginary Hype squad is such a good tool for confidence. Going back to that analogy of the immune system, it's a really good way to kind of build the confidence like you would build your immune system. But I think what is even better than an imaginary hype squad is a real hype squad. And I just think that's why it's so important that we all support each other and just be everyone's cheerleader, whether that's a loved one, a colleague, even just an acquaintance. I think there's more than enough. Enough success to go around, and we're all interconnected, so if one person succeeds, we all succeed. So we should just be there rooting for each other and just embodying that idea from improv of I got your back and just putting that supportive energy out into the universe and just helping to build confidence collectively. That, I think is my one piece of advice I would give to your listeners is to support each other and to surround yourself with people who support you.

And I think you should look up the inner Hype Squad domain.

I love that. Stacey, I have to ask, who's on your inner Hype Squad?

Yeah, I. I need to have one. I think that's why I was so in love with it. And it's funny, I had interviewed someone else who I think this was after I heard about the inner Hype Squads, because I think this is when I connected it together. She had. She does it a little differently. Hers is like a board. They're part of her board pretending like she has her own board.

And.

And it was funny. She talked about, do you know Sarah Blakely? She's the one that owns Spanx, and she sold it for, like, a billion dollars. Yeah. So she was one of her board members, and she ended up running into her in Face to Face, and she was, oh, my gosh, you're part of my board meeting. And she. Sarah was like, what are you even talking about?

Oh, my goodness. That is such a funny story. If I ever run into Beyonce, I'll have to tell her that she's part of my hype squad.

Yeah, I know. So I think that's my action item today. Is going to be to. To. To. To identify my hype squad.

Do it and then let me know who you select. Totally.

Yeah. And so I'd love you to share with people where they can learn about you. And then also I do have. So I'm thinking you help on the employer side. I do have a lot of people that own businesses that are listening. So if you want to kind of talk about how they can get in touch with you there and then, or if they're an employee, if they're able to. To get with you that way as well. So just kind of share all that good stuff, too?

Yeah, absolutely. So you can find me on LinkedIn. Just search Shannon Lederman. And the firm I work for is called Blue Beyond Consulting. So you can just find us on Google LinkedIn, our website, and feel free to reach out if you have any questions. So cool.

And are you doing anything, like on Instagram for your. Your improv stuff and the Toastmasters thing, or are you just keeping it all business kind of focus?

I'm. Yeah, I'm not, but I. I'm trying to think of how I can, I don't know, make this a bigger thing in 2023. So stay tuned.

Yeah, that could be a fun thing to explore for sure. So thank you so much for doing this with me, Shannon. This was so good. I really appreciate it.

Thank you so much. This was really fun. I'm, I'm glad we got the chance to do this.

Thanks for listening to the do the Thing podcast. We hope you enjoyed the show. But even more, we hope you'll be inspired to do the Thing. Do you have a burning question on Doing the Thing that you'd like answered? How about an inspiring do the Thing story of your own that you'd like to share? We'd love to hear all about it. Just leave us a voice message at do the Thing callcast co or email us@helloothethingpodcast.com Sam.