My Best Advice For Getting More Clients (and Higher Paying Ones)

So my kind of goal and rule of freelancing is focused on doing the best job you can and being the best. Deliver on time or early and give them more than they asked for. And I would swear to you that if you follow that one simple rule, you'll be light years ahead of the competition. Like I mentioned this earlier, but too many people think about the clients as a hassle or client work as a botherance. And you either have to shift your mindset about this or stop doing client work, period. I truly believe that that doesn't mean every client and every interaction with every client is going to be the greatest, most wonderful thing ever. But if you feel like it's a chore, then you shouldn't be doing it. And you can shift your mindset. I can write the same sales letter and then I can be in a mindset of like, this is a botherance and it's going to take me longer, be a crappier sales letter, be a miserable experience, or I can think about it. It's like, I'm going to fucking make this the best sales letter I've ever written. I'm going to crush it. And I come up with that mentality and I write it faster. I'm happier, the copy's better, the client's happier too. So go and roll is just literally being the best you can at what you do. It sounds so simple, but it's vital. So one kind of big mindset part to this is that understand that you choose your clients and your clients do not choose you. It's really vital. So I already mentioned the criteria I'm looking for, which is someone who's established in the space, they already know how to get traffic. They know the numbers inside and out. They recognize that by simply taking your deliverables and deploying them appropriately, they get a massive roi. And it's someone who does not micromanage. I'm gonna come back to minus part B in a second, but I wanna really harp on that for a minute too. You guys, really. No client is gonna make or break your career. No client doesn't matter who they are. If you come from every client interaction feeling like you are getting to choose whether or not you work with that client, not only does that help you with making a better selection, but it gives you more power as well, because you don't end up feeling like beholden to the client or like you need the client and you don't. And we're gonna tie this all back in in a second because the part B of the mindset is to understand that clients need you just as much as you need them. And it's really important. It's related to what I just said with you being able to choose the client, and it's wildly important. There's never a shortage of clients. Your respective dream clients are actively searching for your services you provide right now. It's true. If you write copy, there's tons of people looking for copywriters right now. If you do design, if you do analytics, list management, whatever it is you do, people are out there right now looking for what you do. The problem is never clients. And including dream clients. Dream clients are out there right now looking. What's holding them back from hiring you has anything to do with money either. It's not about money. Your dream clients have the money to hire you. That's why they're dream clients. I do. And I want you to come in. Let me start with this and then I'll let you jump in. There's basically really only two reasons why your dream clients don't hire you. The first reason is because they don't know who you are. If a client doesn't know you exist, they can't hire you. So you need to get your name and reputation out there. We'll talk about that in more detail. Second reason is they don't trust that you will bring them an roi. Because even once a prospective client does know who you are, you have to overcome their skepticism and doubt. If the client believes that hiring you will bring them significant roi, they'll hire you virtually every time. So you establish trust and certainty with clients. And I was thinking about this, I was talking about with Laura even this morning as I was going through my PowerPoint with her. And like, even people who have like a hundred million dollar company, a billion dollar company, but she actually made two great examples. She's like Agora Financial for copywriters. Agora has literally hundreds of copywriters. They're a billion dollar company. They hire us like copyright all the time if they think they're good. I have a thing with Agora right now that they paid me nine months ago. I still haven't done the work for them. They don't care. It's not because I was like lazy. It's because they didn't give me details that were needed for the project and all that stuff. That's the dream client. They paid me. And I'm like, Joe Schaefer from Agora was like, hey, you know, I kept following up with Matt. She was like, hey, Joe, like, do you want to just refund the money? Cause it's been like, you know, six months now and we haven't done this project and I don't want to hold your guys money. He's like, no, it's been totally on me. He's like, you just take time. Whenever you're ready, just hit me up, do the project, we'll do it. Then I'm like, all right, it might be like another six months or a year. He's like, that's totally fine. Whenever you're ready, you do the project. So they paid me money and I get like a 5% royalty deal if Agora too on it. So that's a great client. But on top of that they are hiring. They're still hiring. And same thing with Golden Hippo. Like Craig Clement has hired me for something. Golden Hippo has their own in house team but my reputation is really good. Craig Clemens hiring me. So the point of that being like, even if the client has everything dialed in, if they thought going back to like, if they thought for every dollar they give you, they're going to get $3 back or $4 back or $5 back, if they truly actually believe that they would never not hire you, why would they not hire you? It doesn't matter how dialed in my stuff is. If you're like, yeah, cool, I can beat your control, I can do a new thing. If you made it very certain for them that the ROI was going to be there, they'll hire you every time. So you have to know who you are and have to actually really and truly believe that they will get an ROI from giving you money. And, and we're going to talk about some ways to approach both of those in a minute, but my friend Ian Stanley.

Yeah, I just want to say one thing on the whole idea of they need you more than you need them. So there's a story about George Clooney and when he was starting out, he was struggling to get gigs and jobs and stuff super quick. But basically he one day he realized he's like, wait, they need actors. They cannot make the movie without the actor. And so he was always going in with this energy of like, I need this job, I need this job, I need this job. And then when he had this realization, he was like, wait, they need me more than I need them. And he just, it change is sort of maybe like woo as that may sound. It changes the way that you present yourself. It changes how you come across if you, you know, if you come across desperate or needy or any of these things. Like, people feel that it has a scent to it. And so he just. That shift, that little shift of like, they need me. It changed the way he walked into the room and the way he behaved. And now he's, you know, George Clooney, if you've heard of him.

But he's all right. I think there's a line you decipher like between your self confidence and arrogance though.

I think so. But if you're that early on and you're just trying to get stuff, you're probably not going to cross over until like full blown arrogance. And also if you're a piece of shit, then you're a piece of shit. Like, you know, I do think there's a line of like getting too good where you think you're better than stuff and you're like beyond it. But I think that's also still a better problem than. Because you typically have done stuff at that point where then you turn into that guy. But early on it's. Yeah, I think that's a very important distinction.

Yeah, I totally agree with that. We're going to harp more about this too. So don't know who you are. How are some ways you can overcome that? Right? I mean, leveraging Facebook is maybe an obvious one, but it's an important one. Joining relevant groups. So for copywriting, call of copy, Justin Step and talk copy. Lots of groups there. But whatever it is, there's joining groups, posting regularly, commenting, interacting, sharing wins. I think people are afraid to share their wins, but I think there's a way to do it where it's very disgustingly self promotional and there's a way to do it where it's like, man, so stoked, so proud of my client. They just did this incredible thing. We're getting this result really happy. I was able to help them with that. I think you can share wins in a way that you're coming from a place of being happy for others and you're being more of like a. You're sharing something great in your life. If I'm sharing something great in my life, I'm like, man, I'm really happy and thankful. This great thing just happened in my life and you like me. Good for you, man. But it's not like, hey, everyone, look how great I am. I'm so great, guys, I'm so great. I think it's just about the approach of how you do that. Even better though, especially specific to Facebook. And we're gonna talk about beyond Facebook is getting clients to do shoutouts for you. If you do well for your clients, get them to do a shout out for you, get them do a post, get them to do something in a group, get them to do a testimonial, and then you can share that too. It's okay to share your wins and be like, man, I'm so honored that this person made this video. It was so fun working on their launch. Really thankful. I don't even necessarily have a call to action, like, hey, if you want to hire me to do the same thing, message me. I would just be sharing my wins and my victories because the more you're in front of people and there's name recognition, the more it helps. I mean, even some of you guys in this room, like, I've never. I mean, you're at my event, but, like, I've not. We've not really interacted. But you guys are in my Facebook group, so, like, I already know who you are. That guy Levon I brought up, never met him in person, but I know who he is. So, like, if I know who somebody is, I'm just way more likely to hire them because I've heard their name before. As funny as that sounds, like just that tiny little bit of name recognition goes such a far, long way. Rob. Yeah. Who are you bragging? Who are you bragging to about your wins? Is it in your Facebook group? I do it both places. Well, we should add people who do, like, add your dream clients. I think I have that somewhere. But yeah, add your dream clients on Facebook and then share your wins. But then I think, yeah, and then the groups, I'd be careful again, careful about bragging. There's somebody in our Facebook group, justin@7talk copy. Who literally every time the guy posts, it's like, here's another all time great win I had. This thing was so awesome. And it's like, what's your one about biggest failures or mistakes? Guy was crickets not nowhere to be found. Anytime there's an opportunity to self promote, this guy's like, here I am. And Justin and I are both like, this guy's so thirsty. It's like ridiculous. You don't want to be that guy. You don't be this person who's constantly coming in and celebrating yourself. But I think talking about, even in the context of helping, if you're in a group and someone has a question and you have relevant experience and you're like, hey, you know, I ran into this with this client. We got great results. Here's what the results were. Here's what we did then, you've created value for that person and solved a problem. But you've also done it in the context of demonstrating your authority and expertise as well. But more than anything, I really think it's just name recognition is important. Like, I'm gonna get to that more in a second here. But another one is attending masterminds and events, which Ian may talk about masterminds more because we're talking about introvert, extrovert stuff that's more extroverted. But masterminds are life changing. And attending mastermind for prospective clients is, hands down, probably the easiest way to land clients. There's other ways too, but if I'm being completely honest with you guys, going to masterminds with potential clients is the easiest way to get clients. I don't really do any more that much, but I've gotten tons of clients from masterminds. Again, you hired me after we met at a Mastermind. But also just the relationships you get, things like that. Basically, I met Tyler at a Mastermind. I met you for the first time at a Mastermind, but I heard of you through Tyler. Then Tyler hired me for different stuff and he came to my copy intensive. I did all that kind of stuff. You guys are both in my mastermind, but you got. How many clients did you guys get from the copy accelerator mastermind? We did five. Yeah. Yeah, a couple. A handful. But the point is, it's just. Yes, no, interrupt all you want. Do you have a strategy? Not a strategy, but any tips or anything, maybe tactics you use at said mastermind?

Actually.

Yeah. And I know the glare here is bad. I just added the next part of that. What's more eventful is if you go to masterminds where you know some of your existing clients are gonna be there because then they can be like a promoter for you. So what I'd like to do is, and it's supposed to be events, I get Masterminds that are 25,000 a year or 30, whatever it is, and that's expensive. But events too, like even that are a couple hundred dollars or one thousand dollars or whatever it is. If you're there and you have existing clients there who are happy, the amount of immediate social proof you get is so valuable. And almost saying where you'd be like, hey, for a good client, like, are you going to attend this? You should attend. As an example for the Mimosa mastermind, which they do every year at tnc, Justin and I are going to lead the copy section of that. So it's going to be like Perry Belcher and two other people, actually. So that's the start. This is the day before TNC at some Mastermind. Perry Belcher's going to talk and there's going to be two other people. She needs a third person. I was like, oh, do Nick Daniel from V, Shred and Sculpt nations who sells like 100 million plus a year. They do. She's like, great. So I'm like, there, I'm helping Nick. I'm like, hey, Nick, you want to go out and meet more people and get your guys kind of brand out there more now you can. But even better, now Nick's talking at the very beginning of this Mastermind that people were paying $1,000, $2,000 to be at. And then Justin and I are going immediately after that. And then we're gonna be like talking about our Copy Starter Mastermind, which you just heard from Nick. Well, Nick's of course, a member in our Mastermind, so there's like that whole leverage there about it. And then when Randall, you were on stage, we did like a panel at the copy of Starter Mastermind and with Nick was also there. Nick, I'm talking about Randall and how Randall wrote great copy for him and then how many you were flooded after that. Right. So it doesn't mean you have to have someone who's speaking from stage, but just being at a mastermind where you've got clients who are there who can then attest to you and your skills or an event, then let them do the selling for you and then. Or, you know, if you guys are together. And I'm like, oh. I'm like, dude, yeah. No, Ian, totally. Remember that thing we wrote together and how we weren't sure, but then it ended up working out really well and you're like, yeah, Stefan's a great copywriter. Have you met Stefan? He's one of the best copywriters out there. Just having somebody there. So you're not being the self promoter by yourself, but people are promoting for you is really, I think, one of the main keys for that. And Masterminds too. Yeah.

And one sentence and one little bit of just a promotion from one other person. That second layer of credibility from that second party. Credibility can be worth so much. Just what like you just said for Randall, like, right, how that ended up just one little comment like that. Because all it takes is one of the right people to hear that and they trust that person. And now you've just piggybacked on all of that trust. I think you're probably going to talk about some of the stuff you do with your secret, like how to get talked about some of it.

Yeah, yeah, a little bit. But yeah, existing clients can sell your skills for you. So that's really key. Maybe, I mean, seriously, possibly find a hype man. So this is probably the most powerful of all. It's kind of what you were going to. Ian, if you can find someone who is well respected in the space and they start talking about you to the public on a regular basis, whether it's at a mastermind or just in general in public, your credibility will instantly skyrocket. So I can use my own example with Justin Goff, who's my partner in Copy Accelerator. I've been successful copywriter for a long time, but when I decided to do Copy Accelerator with Justin, he started doing all these emails to his list about me and the modern day Gary Bensavinga and all this kind of stuff. And suddenly I was getting hit up left and right by people wanting to hire me. Oh, I've heard you're the best. And then they go to a mastermind and someone else was there and they're like, oh, your name's come up a couple times now. I think somebody emailed about you. And then I was at an event where somebody talked about you and I've got to work with this person. And you're like, yeah, cool, totally. It's $75,000. And they're like, okay, all right, great. You know, because they're hearing about you from multiple places and sources. And so, you know, I did copy start with Justin because I was passionate about teaching and talking about copy. But by having somebody now who's out there promoting me via their email list on Facebook, all these sorts of things like that then increased my public visibility and then I've taken advantage of that and leveraged it. Now Jess and I have a Facebook group together. I'm talking at more events, I'm creating my own list. I've got a whole kind of plan. I'm not just being passive about getting more attention. I think for a while I was afraid to put myself out there, but now I'm not and so I'm leveraging that to my own means. So part one is, I guess, getting people to like, be your hype man. And then part two is leveraging it too. And then four will tie into the three kind of.

Yeah. Golf's subject line today was why I hate Ian Stanley. So, you know, that's good.

So, all right, well, how do I get a Hype man. How do I get somebody, like, really known or notoriety in our space to talk about me? There's a million different ways, but, you know, some of the ones I put here, it's like writing a book, creating a blog, creating a Facebook group. This kind of stuff sounds obvious, but, you know, you can combine for everything if you get a book or a Facebook group or whatever, and you can get experts in the space to start promoting it because you're providing value. Like, whether that's the Facebook group, which now, in our Facebook group, like, we see all the time, people are like, hey, what are the best groups you guys are following? Are you involved in? And people go, oh, Justin and Stefan taught copy. And then we get like, a hundred new people, 200 people coming in. Then they see my awesome content because I'm sharing really valuable content for you guys. A lot of you guys are in the Facebook group. I'm vulnerable. I'm honest. Like, I share. Justin shares a lot of tactical stuff. I share some tactical stuff, too, but it's all kind of intentional. Like, I'm doing it because I love to share and I love to help people. But now my name is out there more. I'm getting mentioned more. And it's because of value again, going back to excellence, even with my content, my free content. That's what I do. But I'm creating content. I'm a content creator, and that's helping me to build my own brand, which then helps me to get clients with less resistance. And even at a Mastermind, someone comes in, like, this literally happened in the 100 million mastermind. I went to go to the bathroom at the first night when we were doing the intros, and it took, like, two fucking hours to do all the intros. God. And multiple people were like, oh, yeah, I just heard about you. You guys just came on my radar the other day. Or, oh, I need to talk to you. I'm in your Facebook group. Or somebody just talked about your guys. It happened, seriously, 10, 20 different times where total strangers were like, oh, yeah, I've just started hearing about you. I need to talk to you. It's because we're more in the public eye. So Ann wrote a book, which I thought was a. You did? That's one of the reasons you wrote this book. You want to help people, but it helps you to then have something that you can leverage upon. Maybe we'll talk about the book now or later, if you want to.

I'll talk about that later. I mean, one thing I'll say is like there's just an aspect of being seen by people where even if you're not in that moment teaching, promoting, doing anything, they see you and they remember, oh, like I went through a period and I'll talk about it more later. But basically, like, even I'll just say the book thing actually for now, because I didn't. That there's a level of credibility too, with an actual book, right? And I know Travis teaches his book stuff, but it's like when you're holding a book and you're like, oh, this is different. This is not yet there it is.

I brought.

I think I only could fit like four, but I have like four. So if there's anybody in here who doesn't have one that wants one and give you guys a few. It's also a cool, like, business card, essentially, right? It's like, hey, here's my book, as opposed to this. And the cool thing. One thing I've really noticed about the size of that book is it's not intimidating. So what happens is people go, oh, I'll actually read this because it's not this big, thick tome that they have to take home. And what's really interesting is I wish I had brought more to the hundred million or had them like give it out or something like that. But also you don't want to be like, hey, take my book. But because it's as short as it is, people will read it on the plane back from the event. And that's because you also don't know the long term value. If I was still trying to freelance more like that for sure would be getting me new people, just like contacting me a lot. Because if they've read a whole book, that's a completely different experience. But it's that size of it takes away the intimidation. And they get on the plane, they leave. Like, Mike Geary came up to me and he's like, oh, I was reading your book on the plane on the way over here. I actually laughed out loud a few times. And that made me super happy that he laughed sitting on a plane. And it's like, those are the things that just continues to build a relationship and credibility.

A couple others. I'm gonna get you one second, Brooks. I shouldn't put these on here, but I should have would be podcasts. Was another one really important. And podcasts, people, they want content. They want people on there. I mean like Randall, your story, if you're willing to share that. You got a podcast. In a second, Sam. In a second. You as a Baseball player in a second. You as like trying to like a guy who styles freelance versus like the corporate life as long as you have. You guys are all, we're all creative people here who can sell. You all have stories that people would love to have on podcasts. I've gotten people hitting me up from podcasts. I have a. It's actually shocking to me because I feel like nobody listens to podcasts I'm on. But then I've had people very frequently who are like, no, I've listened to all your podcasts. And I'm like, oh shit. Like, wow. And I'm not on like that many, but that's a great one. And then single public speaking at events like, you know, being on a panel, that actually, that's such a big one too. I don't want to. So getting back to the extrovert stuff. But like if you can be on a copy panel or whatever panel it is and you're even for like, if it's like a five minute panel, the second you're on stage, people's view of you just shifts entirely because now you're an expert in authority. If I'm on stage, that's one of the things I'm getting to this. And I'm doing a talk in San Diego next Friday in front of 80 plus entrepreneurs and I'm like, I know as soon as I'm done I'm going to get swarmed by people asking me questions and stuff like that. Yeah.

And the thing I just want to say about podcasts, books, even longer videos and stuff is it's easy to get caught up in vanity numbers and metrics and things. Like this video got 100,000 views and this one only got 10,000 views.

Well.

Or this one only got 150. Well, what if 80 of those 150 people were your target audience? When I speak on stage, I'll get 50 new Instagram followers or whatever. Right. From some talk. It's not that many followers, but that's 50 people who just watched me speak for an hour, who just had a transformational experience listening me speak, who are now listening actually looking at my posts, watching my stories. Now when I promote something, they end up buying a thousand dollar product a month later from a talk that I gave because I delivered value and then they were there. Somebody who listens to an hour podcast is a way different person than somebody who watched your two minute ad and opted in. That is a completely different human being. Their experience with you is so much deeper. They have so Much. It's way better to have 50 people listen to an hour podcast than 200 people listen to your three minute video or 5,000 people even. And it's a really powerful thing, especially if you tell great stories and you stand out and you're unique, which I'll talk about that stuff more.

There's such a long tail to this stuff, for sure. I've got a guy right now who's a consultant client of mine, and I love him. And it's like four calls a month, $10,000 a month. And honestly, I'm not. If I do any more consulting, I'm charged way more for it. But still, $10 a month for four calls a month, for an hour. Four hours, it's not bad. $2,500 an hour. Great. But the guy, I met him at Traffic and Conversion IM party and it was like a mutual friend, didn't. I just talked to the guy for like 30 minutes, like, and kind of gave him some advice and that was it. And then he met up like maybe a month or two later and he's like, hey, you know, I really want to appreciate that advice. Things have been going better now. I listen to some of your podcasts. You have an amazing story. I can't afford it yet, but I want to hire you as my personal coach. And I was like, all right, man. Like, well, you know, awesome. Let me know. I didn't really think it would actually do it. A month later, he's like, hey, I'm ready. Can I pay for the first three months up front? Where did I wire you $30,000? And I'm like, shit. And that was literally just from me talking to a guy at an event. Nothing wasn't for me. And then being on a podcast and he heard about these podcasts and I made an incredible impact on this guy's life. And he just re upped and paid me another $30,000 because I'm changing his life, which is the most amazing feeling in the world. But it was really just from an event and podcast.

And I have a whole section that's basically this whole concept and the exposure and the long tail and stuff. So that's great.

Yeah, awesome. So that's number one, right? They don't hire you because they don't know who you are. So really, there's just three goals here, right? Get credible people talking about you on a frequent basis. Begin to establish reputation as an authority or an expert in your space, and leverage the social capital of others. That's what we just talked about. Previously and those four kind of points. And the second reason they don't hire you is because they don't trust you or bring them an roi. And again, I already was really clear about this. But they will give you money. If your dream client believes that giving you money will lead to a substantial roi, they will hire you every single time you hire people. Ryan, if you really believe that somebody was gonna give you an ROI every time you hire them, would you ever not hire them all I look at it, that's literally all you're looking for. Yeah, you're very numbers driven. Anything other than roi? If I cannot associate you to a number, I cannot pay you. Right. And if you can, you'll pay them like, well though. Yeah, totally. Right Again, I made the whole point of like, you know, any business, agora, Golden Hippo, whatever it is. Your sole job is to get them to feel confident that if they hire you, they will get an roi. That's it. How do you do that? Establish a track record. I'm gonna go through four points here as well, and then I'll show you guys an example of how I would do this in a real life situation. But being able to point to a track record of success and their vertical is the easiest way. Numbers client testimonials. If you don't have a track record. We're gonna talk about that in a minute. Demonstrating subject matter expertise. You should be an expert in whatever field the client's considering hiring you in. If you have your own self worth issues, whether or not you're an expert, if you're doing it and you get results for people, you're an expert. So just get your weird hangups out of the way about that. We can talk more about hangups later. Your job is to convey to the client that I am an expert in this subject matter. Ask questions and listen. This sounds really obvious, but super true. The more a client feels like they're being heard and understood, the more likely they are to hire you. Because so many people make the mistake of they get a potential client they want to work with and they start just talking at the client and being like, here's all the stuff I can do for you. And they're trying to sell themselves so hard to the client that the client gets turned off or the client doesn't feel understood. If I hire somebody, I want them to feel, I want them to understand what my pain point is. And then they'd be like, I understand your pain point. I feel confident I can fix that pain point. Then it's easy for me to hire them. If I feel like they just want to get hired, but they don't actually understand what I need, then I'm not going to want to hire them because I don't trust them. I don't trust that they're actually going to solve my pain point. Do you feel like you prescribe like a doctor by listening and then identifying the pain? That's exactly what I do. I'm going to get to a nice, juicy example of this in just a second. And the last one is answering objections that they didn't even know they had. I think this is actually pretty important too. So, like, you're showing the client the path from hiring you to profiting from your work. So instead of just selling them on sales copy as an example, I know this is hard to read, which I apologize for, but you get my wonderful voice telling you, walk through the entire process of what it'll look like after they take your copy put into production and take it live. Find out what does that look like as you're asking questions. So once I deliver the copy, you know, what's your process to get the copy live? Well, we're gonna do this, this, and this. Like, okay, cool. How long does it normally take? Well, it should take a month, but, you know, we're having an issue here or here. Oh, really? I know a really good. You're having an issue with design. I know a really good designer. I'd be happy to refer him to you. Could they help or. Oh, really? Well, what if I did this? With that short on the timeline, you're trying to basically find out where the bottlenecks could occur and then be proactive with ideas and solutions that can alleviate those bottlenecks. Because again, if they think like, they may be like, oh, I want to hire him, but even if he writes me a great copy, it's going to take me like three months to get it live or I don't have the bandwidth for it. But if you're like, oh, hey, here's some solutions that will help you to get to the end result faster of you getting an roi, and they feel like you're credible and you've listened to them and they trust you and you can provide those solutions through referrals or strategic problem solving or whatever, way more likely to hire you. So let me show you guys what this kind of looks like in action here.

Can I say one thing about that real quick? This objections, they didn't know they had. Thing what I like to do, and this is kind of my Entire thing, right, is I just am very oppositional to whatever other people are doing. I enjoy that. It's also easy. People think I'm super creative, and I'm like, oh, you see what other people are doing? I just was like, what's the opposite of that? Like, for my book, this is not a best seller, right? Everybody's got a bestseller, so I just take the complete opposite angle. But when it comes to getting clients and stuff, what I'll do is. A lot of people have heard the story about Eugene Schwartz, where he finished this. You know, he was one of the greatest copywriters ever. He finished a sales letter right after the client had left, and then he sat on it for two weeks because he didn't want to make it seem like he had just written it right then. And he waited two weeks to send it out. And so that's a story people know, and that's something that people are doing. So what I'll say is, I'll be like, look, let's be real. This may take me, like, 45 minutes. It may take me a week. I may be able to sit down and write this, like, now. So let's cut the bullshit. Like, I'm not trying to make it seem like I'm doing a lot more. If I can get it to you tomorrow, you can start testing the next day. So money's attracted to speed in this case, so let's just get it going. And they'll be like, oh, shit. Like, that's different. Because I'm like. And this is what I say is, I go, do you? I say, we can test this big, long thing. I think this will win. I'm almost 100% certain. But here's a little test we could run this week as opposed to two months from now. Because I'm trying to figure out ways to get them to win fast before I go do some big project. And people are like, oh, that's really nice. Because most people are like, yeah, two months from now, I'll have this, like, well, we can test a new lead in three days. So what if I write you a new lead and then you're making more money in three days as opposed to waiting two months?

That's great. Yeah, I love that.

Yeah, I use that as part of my, like, way of doing shit.

I might start doing it. I might steal that from you.

Do it, dude. That's what people do. They take my shit. That's why I'm teaching it.

That's right. So what is it, like, in action? So, like, Say prospective client hits me up out of the blue, they want to do a new sales letter for a health supplement funnel. So the first thing I'm going to do is I'm going to ask to review their existing funnel and ask for existing stats where the offer is currently running, all that kind of information. If they don't know existing stats or they don't have stats, that's already a red flag for me. If they can't give me basic information about it, assuming that they already have an established business, which they should, because going back to my criteria for what my ideal client is, if they don't know what their stats are, or they don't really know what traffic sources their offers are running on, or if they don't know fundamental stuff about their business, then that's a red flag and I'm going to be very wary about working with that person. But assuming they do know their stats, I'm going to actually review the funnel, the copy, and I'm gonna see if I easily think I can beat their control or that I can create a new offer for them in that context, whatever it is, and I'll make a list of additional suggestions for the client that will improve their metrics. So it could be changes to their formatting, their checkout page, their upsell flow, headlines, whatever it is. And I'm gonna give them all of that for free without asking for anything in return. This is gonna be done via email or on a phone call or whatever it is. So I'm gonna talk to them, I'm gonna find out, okay, what are the stats right now? Are you happy with those stats or not? What are you kind of trying to get? Well, what are you running right now? Let me see it. Ok, this is good or it's bad? I'll give an honest assessment. Maybe it's great. I'm like, oh, I think this looks great. I don't think I can work with you. You don't need me. Maybe there's something else we can do together, but this isn't it. But I'm going to do all that by asking for anything in return. But as I'm reviewing copy and talking about their business and understanding it, I'm going to relate back previous experience and my track record to them. So when I'm like, hey, change like X to Y, I'll do it in the context of, yeah, you know, I was with another client and we changed the headline to feature this one thing and we found that actually gave us like a 20% boost right there from that headline, which sounds crazy, but I've actually had that happen with a couple clients. And so that's why I think you should, you know, you should change your headline whether we work together or not. Like, you need to change your headline or like, oh, this is. I love this funnel. You know, what you want to do is test this as your upsell. I had a funnel like this and it did, like, you know, over $10 million. But again, 10 million is great, but maybe for you it's like over $100,000, whatever it is. And so, like, you know, I know this works really well for us. It's something you should probably test as well. So I'm giving them free advice, but I'm demonstrating my authority. And I'm also like, you know, seeding in their head that I am like an expert who can solve their problems as well. You know, real world examples and case studies showing that I understand their business and I have solutions to their problems. So I'm providing value, but it's not just purely altruistically. I'm also getting them to look at me as the expert who can solve their problems. If I go through all that and it still is a good fit for me, I'll start out pricing.