[RTB:E12] "Deserving Massive Wealth" - The Road to a Billion with Stefan Georgi

Hey, you're listening to the Road to a Billion podcast. I'm your host, Stefan Georgi, and I'm glad to have you with me here today. The Road to a Billion is a call in radio show where you can ask me questions about freelancing, copywriting, entrepreneurship, mindset scaling, funnels, relationships, money, and more. The name of the show of the Road to a Billion is because I will have sold a billion dollars worth of stuff, my own and my clients, by the end of this year. And because my goal is to help a billion people in the next 10 years to make an impact on their lives, whether that's emotional, mental, or financial. We're gonna start taking calls in about five minutes from now. And the way that works is people will take their questions, put them into the Q and A section here on the Zoom webinar we're doing, and then Ed Ray will go through and answer, will select them, and then I'll answer them live with you. So before we go to that, I'm gonna introduce you all to Ed Ray, who has an amazing monologue prepared. Here is Ed Ray.

I'm Ed Ray and I have help people get Zuck bucks by making their funnels Facebook friendly and by following Facebook's ad policies so you don't get cut by Zuck. There we go.

Perfect. Somebody asked if I made you co host, which I totally didn't do that either, but I just did it now.

You just did. New intro starts with, well, shit.

Yeah, well, shit, it's the Road to Billion. Ed is going to monologue about feeling deserving of massive wealth. This is the monologue he's been, you know, we just started recording. So Ed has been preparing this monologue for a couple weeks now. He's taken scrupulous notes and really studied really hard. Ed, I know you have a lot to say on this topic, and I'm just really excited to hear it.

So, yeah, I'm really excited to present. Thank you. Actually, before you just mentioned that I have to do this monologue like a minute and a half ago, I did five weeks of extensive research on Warren Buffett and some of the world's richest influencers.

Yeah. So anyway, so you're gonna segue into like a really cool point about that right away.

No, I was totally bullshitting.

Okay, perfect. I could.

If it comes up, I could. But in terms of deserving massive wealth, one thing that I've learned over time, like from going from, you know, working for free, making zero money, grinding all the time, to now, you know, charging is there A bug on my shoulder to now 1500 bucks an hour. The one thing is like, if you, if you truly believe that you can help people and that you are willing to do what it takes to help people, you are deserving of wealth. Because at the end of the day, like wealth is just what you're able to give to people. You're able to solve problems. The more problems and the bigger problems you can solve, the more wealth you can create. So when you're first starting, you can only solve small problems. So if you're a copywriter, you say, hey, I wrote an email for you that doesn't solve a massive problem necessarily, but it solves a problem, AKA not necessarily having an email to send. That's money making skill. So by being able to solve more and bigger problems for people, the more deserving you are for wealth and the more can charge. When I was 17, I was charging 250 bucks an hour. Now I charge, I'm 20, I charge 1500 an hour. Why is that? Because I can solve bigger problems. And when you can actually help people and you can see in the world that you are making a difference, you are helping people, you are getting results for your clients, you're getting results for yourself and you're impacting people, that's what's going to allow you to charge more and you even feel more deserving by seeing that people get great results from you. Like the fact that I was able to, you know, take a funnel for my client that had a really hard time on Facebook. So they got up to about a million and then they got shut down. I come in, you know this, I only charged 10k for it, which I totally undercharged. But I helped them get it back up and now they're back up and running and, and you know, they're scaling up to hitting a million bucks a month now from one product. So that level of confidence, you can't really shake that because you have such great results. And when you can get your client such great results, you go, hey, you know what? Like if I can get this person such great results, you know, I can't help but be able to charge more. I can't help but be able to deserve more because the more that people pay you, the more you can give them. And that's something that I think a lot of people don't realize is by charging more and by giving like better results to your clients, by giving more of your time to your clients and more of your effort and your energy, you can get them better results. You're not stealing from them by charging more. You're not stealing from them by charging what you are worth and what you deserve. You've just been under charging the whole time and now you're finally charging what you're worth. Stefan.

No, I mean, you're killing it. You had a pregnant pause and I thought maybe that was the end. So I was about to come in, you know, but I didn't mean to interrupt you on your pregnant pause. No, I mean you're completely right. Man, I love this. This is so good. I was gonna say for everyone who's in the Justin and stuff and talk Facebook. Talk Facebook. Justin and Stefan talk Coffee, Facebook group. Um, if you look at Matthias Mazur's post, How to get More copyright jobs, he's literally interviewed over 150 copywriters in the last two weeks. He's hiring an absurd amount. Something like 50. I think he hired a 50 plus copywriters recently, including 50 plus one on one interviews. Did he hire you too? Dude, he's, he's out of control. He's like on a crazy hiring spree. And by the way, not to plug old RNBC method, but he said on our call too, he was like 80% of the people I've hired like at least were trained on RNBC because it just sets them apart like hardcore. So that was dope to hear. But yeah, read his post if you haven't looked at that yet. Because he like, he breaks down a lot of stuff but one of the again the attitude and work ethic. But he talks about, where's the one here? It's like basically talks about confidence, right? Like that's what I'm trying to look for. There's the idea of like even, like, like everything gets noticed but even your tonality when they press you on your copyright knowledge, things like that. It's like having that confidence like when you, when you talk and believing yourself and like just all these little things like that was my favorite of all his points. You know, he said, you know, hiring managers and CEOs repost. Even if we don't comment, we see who is active and who isn't. We see who contributes, who doesn't. We see how you format your email, your font size, your font choices, how you send in your work. We notice the words you use while applying. We notice if you are two minutes early on your Zoom interview or five minutes late. I run an eight figure digital marketing agency that owns several brands in Info Publishing, e commerce, a team of 40 plus great people and Media buyers. I've interviewed thousands of people for all types of positions over the last 15 years and hired hundreds of people. We notice your tonality when we press you on your copyright knowledge, or if you've written the entire sales page you're showing us, or if you just took someone else's work and changed the headline color and passing it as your own. Be honest and open because we notice everything. We will always hire hunger and honesty rather than someone trying to appear more experienced than you are. So I just like that. Like that to me was so cool. And it kind of ties into what you're saying here because like, yeah, you saw bigger problems but even earlier on too, it's like having like confidence and assuredness in yourself and like even the tone which you present yourself and how you present yourself is just so important. It's so vital. So I wanted to add that because I just love this post from Matthias. Like I want to print it out and put it on my wall. And I'm not even. I'm not trying to get hired as a copywriter, but it was like so much gold there, so. But that was. That was an awesome, awesome opening model. I'm so glad I gave you the last month to prepare for that.

Thanks, man.

Yeah, really, really nailed it. With that being said, should we hop in and like answer some questions?

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Let's get to it.

Oh yeah. So.

Oh, we have a great question here from Ludfi. Luffy asks. Hey, Stefan. Just bought my ticket to the Copy Accelerator Virtual Live event. Great work. I'll see you there. Can't wait to meet all the awesome people there. My question is, if my goal is to get clients there, what's the best way for me to prepare besides watching the videos in the Copy Accelerator members area?

What's up, Luffy? That's a great question. How you doing? Hey.

Hi, Stefan. Can you hear me?

I can hear you. Okay, great. Hi, Ed.

Yo, yo.

I thought you were just gonna do that hat, like tip. Because you kind of tipped your hat. Maybe you're just adjusting it, but it looked like you were just doing like a tip of the hat to Luffy. And I was like, that's classy as fuck, Luffy. Sorry man, but go on. Yeah. So you're wondering about how to best kind of leverage getting new copywriting. Well, networking and getting new opportunities as part of the event, right?

Yeah. So I'm like media buyer and copywriter. So I'm just wondering what's the best approach for me to get gigs from the Event.

Yeah, great question. So things I would do, I would be as we. As you look at the attendee list, which we will like publish, and you'll. You'll have access to. And I'd be make sure you Facebook friend, like everybody who's attending, because that'll be both copy, you know, accelerator members as well as members who are like our people who bought tickets. We've got 74 applications so far, and we've had 30 people buy tickets. I think actually Guerleen was the most recent one. You were number 29. Gurling was 31. Siraj was 30, Svetslav was 28. I could go off the whole list. Lucas Mills is on there, bunch of people. But anyway, so. But I would go through and make sure you're adding everybody up front on Facebook. You can even send them a message and be like, hey, you know, really excited to be at this event, spending time with you. You know, I'm Luffy, you could, I mean, leverage me, right? You do. You do stuff and help me out. So, like, I'd be, you know, mentioning that quite a bit. And then I'd be active. Be active in the chats, participating, like, sharing insights and things like that. I think that's really helpful too. And then, you know, take advantage of the networking rooms that we're going to have, because we're going to have like, you know, two different breakout sessions each of the two days. So we're going to have the different business owners who will be in their own zoom room, who are looking to hire copywriters, and then the freelancers can come into those different rooms, have face to face time, like, meet them, talk to them, and then just have relentless follow up with everybody you meet. Like, follow, you know, sending them emails or messages and stuff like that, those are my most immediate thoughts. Ed, do you have stuff to add to that as someone who, you know, has networked and gotten clients?

Yeah. Well, like you said, add everybody in the topicslider Facebook group. Literally, just add them and just talk to all them.

Yeah.

And do your. Do your research on them also. Okay. I'm sorry, Jaz. You're hate me for sharing this secret, but here it is. So I told Jazz a similar method. This is pretty sneaky. I think. So what it is is so now that you're in the copy seller, because they're in part of copy Cyber Light when they buy the virtual event, right?

Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. So anytime you see somebody who is an offer owner who's like posting up their copy for review, like their sales Letter like, hey, you know, I wrote this? Or am I like, you know, my internal staff wrote this or something? It's like, hey, there's a new offer for one of my, you know, products, our new letter. You look at the copy and you've, you know, if that's the kind of client that you want, like, that's the industry and vertical you want. You now have a sales letter before it's launched. So you write three emails promoting that sales letter, and you send it to that person who's in the group. You say, hey, I saw your, you know, doing this sales letter for your new offer. I just wrote you three emails to launch it with. Done.

That's. That's a super good strategy. Yeah, that's a really good strategy. By the way, I am. This is not webinar light, but I'm putting the link in for the sales page. If you want to attend the virtual event, that's where you can go apply to do it. That's a fucking gangster strategy. Yeah, like. Like Michael Roshin, because when he. When he. Because when you get a ticket for this virtual event, which is September 10th and 11th, you get access to CopyXarter Lite, which means you're in the Facebook group. You get access to all the trainings, you get all this stuff. Michael Roshin, who's obviously a Copy Accelerator member now and went from not being able to put presents under the Christmas tree to making 10, 12, $15,000 a month. Michael, he's on the call here, and he's in the chat, and he can speak to this, too. I was talking with him because before, there's a story about how he was pacing the hall the first day of the event, and I found him, stopped him and dragged him back in and forced him to actually be present. But even before that, I got a call with Michael because he was having. He was anxious about the event and worried about did he belong. And then after that call, I was looking at Michael and I was looking at our mutual friends, and we had, like, 10 mutual friends. And I literally messaged Michael. Do you remember this? I messaged you and I yelled at you, and I got, like, basically cussed you out. And I was like, michael, what are you doing? You're in the copy starter group now. You need to go in and add every single one of the people who's in this copy of starter group as a friend. If I don't see that our mutual friends are just growing dramatically, then I'm gonna be really, really, really pissed at you. And to Michael's, credit. The next day we had like 70 mutual friends and we had like 100 mutual friends. But he like, yeah, he hadn't taken advantage of that at first. Cause I think he had that imposter syndrome and those fears we have. But yeah, especially in the Copy Accelerator group, which again you get there's 206 people, not including the Light members or not. Sorry. Not including the people who bought a ticket for the event in that Facebook group. And that's like 206 people were. Half of them are really high end copywriters who by the way, are probably looking to outsource work a lot of time. And then the other half are all business owners who are hiring copywriters all the time. Like, you know Matthias who posted, he's in Copy Accelerator. Right. All these people are so adding all those folks, saying hi, telling them that you bought, you know, a ticket to the event, you're excited to go. Like, they're all like really supportive. I mean, you guys saw a lot of. You saw Matt Martinez and Copy Accelerator Light, he joined Copy Accelerator Light and he posted about that. And Justin and Stefan taught copy. And like so many people were from Copy Accelerator. Like members of Copy Accelerator were coming in like, boom. Great job, great decision. Welcome man. Like, we're a very inclusive, welcoming group. I mean, I can think of the top of my head, like, maybe there's like three to five people. Like, if you message Nick Daniel and you're like, hey bro, just join Copy Accelerator Lite. I'm not gonna tell you that Nick Daniel's gonna be like sick. I'm rooting for you and then like hire you to do a bunch of stuff for Vstride. I mean, he might, but the vast majority of people will. And then back to your whole thing about Mario Castelli. What's up, brah? By the way, speaking of like some of the best copywriters on the planet. But yeah, that was a great, great strategy, Ed. So, so thank you for sharing that. Yeah. By the way, Mario is the one who wrote that sales letter that I posted. Mario, like, I gotta talk to you, Mario. Cause like I. For all the stuff I'm doing, I just sort of. I need you in my life more. He's booked up. That's why no one hears about Mario. Cause he's just like writing killer sales letters all the time. But like, I don't know who's better at like, you know, biz op event type sales letters than Mario is like, legitimately. He's the best I've seen At it. I mean, Ed, you're really good at it too, but you do other stuff. But Mario's just, like, such a grinding beast at, like, these sales letters. So huge. Mario, love. And yes, time to add Mario on Facebook. I would do that for sure. Seriously, Mario. So behind the scenes, even Mario, at the first event in Austin, you were, like, not that outspoken, and you left with like eight or nine clients or something ridiculous like that. And then you ended up, like, being super busy from that point on. But anyway, I'm rambling. I'm gonna shut up. We're gonna answer another question. Luffy, was that helpful?

Yeah.

So just I wanted to recap.

Basically, it's just adding people on Facebook and messaging them and then being active in the chats, the networking rooms, and the breakout sessions, and then follow up emails and messages and do research on them.

Yeah, that's a big part of it. I mean, doing the active emails and then Luffy. So because Luffy helps me with this show, he, like, comes in and does. He does the fascinations on YouTube, stuff like that. So, like, on top of all this stuff, like, Luffy, I mean, leverage that fact, you know what I mean? Like, I would be telling people how you're writing stuff for me. You're part of my team. You're helping, like, I'll give you. Happily give you an endorsement. So I think that'll help you too. Sure. I'm just wondering, should I, like, come.

Up with, like, a positioning for myself? You know, I mean, like, how Ed.

Is like a Facebook compliant expert. Should I, like, come up with a positioning for myself? Do you feel like you have that positioning for yourself right now? I mean, what do you think you're the best at?

My experience is mostly in running Facebook ads and Google Ads as well as YouTube ads. And I write a lot of Facebook ad copy as well, so more like the traffic site and some short form copy.

Yeah, I would focus on that. I think it's fair to be like, I'm, you know, that's an area of my specialty. Like, it's an experience. I've got a lot of experience here because there's a lot of people who need help with ad copy right now. So I think that's a totally good way to approach it. Okay, cool.

Thanks, Stefan.

You're welcome. Thank you. I took off my headset because I felt like. I felt like my voice was, like, echoey. I didn't like it, so I said, like, you know, screw it, man. Coming in hot.

Yes, sir. Yo, by the way, Stefan, I think we should. I mean, this is my idea, but I think it'd be cool if we take that section and we put it into the copy accelerator light. Say, hey, here's how to prepare for the event.

Yeah, it's a great idea.

Let's do that also and put it in the copy seller light members area. So here's how to get clients from copy seller. Make that as a value addition.

It's true. Although now anyone who shares a new sales letter is gonna get like a hundred emails because every single person.

What's so bad about that though?

Yeah, I agree. I mean, that wouldn't bother me. Yeah, Mario, by the way, he said it's true. I had some crazy vertigo going on at the first event. I barely even talked to people. And yeah, I still got a bunch of clients. You have to specifically try not to find clients at the event. If you want to get love that.

You have to insult them directly.

If you don't want clients, you know, it's. Yeah. And don't do that. Nice. Jagadish said. It's my first time here. I've been watching all the podcasts for the last month. You give out a shit ton of value. Kudos to you guys. Thanks, Jagadish.

Thanks, bro. Appreciate that.

Appreciate that.

Cool. So next. Are you ready for things? Quiet.

I'm ready, man. Ready for the next question? Let's go.

For a newbie copywriter who wants to burn the bridge in the next 90 days, disappear to focus on the craft and go all in to be a good copywriter, having the right mindset and skillset, what would you suggest? His daily routine, Taking the necessary required action looks like to achieve the required outcome from Zacchaeus.

Zacchaeus, what's up, buddy? Hold on. Okay.

Some reason it's not letting me allow him to talk.

Oh, no, that's really weird.

I'm literally pressing the allow to talk button.

By the way, on Facebook Live, what's up, Danielle Porter. See you said. Yeah, I'd love to see your face. Aww. Mack Camara is here. What's up, Mac? On Facebook Live?

I'm still co host. I should be able to, you know, unmute Zacchaeus being silly right now. I'm sorry, I don't know why it's not working, but I guess we can just answer it.

Okay. Sorry, Zacchaeus, but yeah, so want to burn the bridge and then you marked it as answered. So here I get back to this. Disappear to focus on the craft and go all in. Be good at copywriting. Having the Right. Mindset, skill set, basically daily routine for.

To be a good copyright or fast af.

Yeah, I mean the big things I would say like if you haven't gotten. I hate like, I hate the answer being like study my stuff or buy my course or whatever it is. But like the RNBC method really like the shortcut to writing better copy in less time. And again there's like a free version of it on my website where I kind of break it down. It's not like obviously nearly as in depth as like the actual courses, but I would try to invest in the RNBC method if possible or at least study it. What's up, Justin Lucas? I think that's really important. Yeah, we've talked about a combination too of like studying but then also doing. Right. So a blend of studying copy. Like we talk about looking at sales letters, writing them by hand, looking at what's working now, watching like a VSL every day, that type of stuff. But then I would also be practicing writing copy and I would talk. We've talked about this before where even if you want to write copy for dream clients, whether it's sales letters or email creatives or Facebook ads or whatever it is, like, take time to do that, practice your chops. But you know, do it based on like a structure, right? Like based on use RNBC or my outline or whatever. Again the free resource. If you're not going to do the buy the course right now or whatever, but like follow that process, practice with it and then because then not only are you getting the practice in, but then use like create your LinkedIn, you know, if you don't have that, you're like a copyright LinkedIn and then take the content you're creating there, right? And like share it on LinkedIn. So if you write sales letters or emails or sales copy or if you do like, if you want to do like funnel critiques where you go through funnels and like make suggestions on how to optimize a checkout page or like headline tweaks. Like you can then take like the stuff you're practicing, record yourself doing that and put it as content on LinkedIn or share it on Facebook or share it other places. So now like you're actually marketing yourself while you practice. And that I think really helps a lot too because like the big thing is like getting better is important and practicing is important. But if you can do that while marketing and getting your name out there at the same time, like posting regularly, joining Facebook groups, I think, you know, those two go hand in hand. It's like, I, you know, for me, I wrote my first. I decided I want to be a copywriter on like a, you know, a Wednesday night in 2012. Asked Laura, hey, do you think I can be a copywriter? She said, yeah, put up a sales letter and had two new clients the next day. So it wasn't like I was like, I think some copywriters take all like, oh, I got study for three months, four months, five months before I can become a copywriter. I don't think that's true. I don't think you should have expectations of going out and getting some huge, you know, big fish or whatever necessarily. But I think you can start going after clients early on. But even if you aren't getting clients, just like I said, do the copy anyway. Build up a portfolio, because that'll make it easier to get clients. You're practicing, it's an investment in yourself. And then repurpose that content, share it on different social platforms as posting, things like that, so you start to get yourself recognized. Yes, sue mama said, Regular LinkedIn posting got me my first client. So, yeah, it works as long as you stick to it. And that's an important thing too. Sticking with it, Rachel said, stefan, would you share a copy written for a paid client? As far as would I share that on LinkedIn, I would have to get my, like, my clients permission to do that. But you could also case study or you could show like a headline or a few little things. Like, I really like just posting stuff like, oh, you know, my client. Here's like the three headlines I had for my client. Here's like, how I wrote them. And then, like, based on that, I was thinking, you know, which one's gonna do the best. Well, here I decided to give them all three to test. But this is the one I think will be the winner. Here's why. Here's the thought process I put into it. It uses these direct response like principles, blah, blah, blah, and then they create content that way. So sharing a little tidbit of it is cool. I wouldn't necessarily do a full explication or breakdown of something that a client paid you for unless the client gives you permission. Ed Ray, anything to add to that?

Nah, dude, you crushed it. I think it's literally just. Also my go to is always the pick somebody you want to write for that you know is currently running emails, and then just write emails for them and send it to them. If they use it, great. And then they pay you eventually. And if they don't use it, you have More for your portfolio.

It's that simple for sure. And somebody on Facebook Live, who was it? Nate Pierce said, did you drive traffic to that sales letter for your skills? I didn't. I just posted that one on Warrior form. I didn't know how to drive traffic, which by the way, I don't know, you know, is warrior form. It's still active. I don't know if like people, if they still have warriors for hire, if there's like other forms that are better now. But I mean I literally just posted like a warrior for hire thing on warrior form and that's where I got hired. I'm looking at warrior form right now. She's got conversion rate, copywriting. I don't know if they still have a jobs for joint ventures. Oh, you have to explore and look and see if worry from. Yep. You can still post there and get some traffic.

Cool.

But yeah, so that those are the main things I would be doing. But again, I think the whole big thing is like you have to wait to get a client. I don't think really as long as you're like studying and you're devoted and like then also. Yeah, and just be, like just be active. Be writing. Create your own portfolio is one of the most important things. But that drives me crazy when freelancers are like, I can't get hard because I don't have a portfolio. And it's like, well then create your own fucking portfolio. Like it's the simplest thing. Like, why are you waiting for somebody to pay you to make your portfolio? Just make the portfolio yourself. That's a simple, that's a total mental block, BS self limiting thing that you're doing subconsciously to like stop yourself from getting clients and succeeding. So just create a portfolio yourself. Like that's a no brainer. That's, that's, there's no excuse girling. What's the best way to make one? Pick clients you want to write for and then do like create emails, write sales letters. You know, do things like that for them. But yeah. And Ray, more Q&As, please.

All right, next question from Aldrin. Aldrin asks, what are your takeaways with your meeting with Brian Kurtz?

Nice. What's up, Aldrin? How you doing? Good. Can you hear me? You're a little cut off for a second. Are you there?

Yeah, yeah.

Oh, cool. Perfect. Every time, every time I see your picture, I want to go back to school. Yeah.

So a couple of weeks ago I think that you had a meeting with Brian Kurtz, but For. For a reason. You weren't able to have that meeting because of. I think it was energy issues or electricity issues, something like that. But I'm just curious of what are your key takeaways with your meeting with the man?

Yeah, yeah, good question. So one thing, by the way, cool. You know, Brian's gonna come on and co host Road to a Billion with me on. Let me get the date right, Thursday, October 1st. So on Thursday, October 1st, it'll be me, Ed Ray, and Brian Kurtz all answering your questions, which should be a lot of fun. I'm really stoked about that. And actually also Amber Spears, who's a speaker at the upcoming Virtual Copying Starter, is going to co host with me on the something September 3rd. So we got some cool co hosters coming up. I'm pretty, pretty stoked about that. But as far as, like, the takeaways from the conversation with Brian, there was a lot. I mean, there was a. There's a lot of validation, which is always helpful, you know, because, like, I'm sharing a lot of my ideas and plans and goals. And when you hear that, you know, Brian saying, like, oh, yeah, that's a really good idea, like, that is really validating and helpful. So, for example, one of my plans, and I actually posted in the Copy Accelerator group about this yesterday, after the virtual event in, like, late October, early November, I'm gonna go on tour. I've talked about this a little bit on my email list. So I'm basically going to charter a private jet and I'm gonna fly. I'm gonna do San Diego, Las Vegas, probably Oregon, maybe Eugene, because people are saying Eugene's better than Portland. I don't know. I'm not trying that debate, just saying like Park City slash Eden, Utah. Then Houston, Austin, Chicago, New York, and then probably Tampa, Florida. And I'm gonna go to all these different cities with like, my family and my assistant Jude doing the film stuff. And at all these different cities, I'm gonna do like a private, like, one day mastermind for Copy Accelerator members who come to those places. So, like, including Tampa, there's a lot of people calling out for North Carolina. It's possible I'm gonna hit North Carolina too, but I'm gonna go and do like, you know, I'm bringing the master. Since we're doing virtual, I'm gonna bring the mastermind to our members. Right. As much as I can. So I think that's really cool. And I'll film content for it. And then on top of that, I'm gonna Do a second day probably that's like open to maybe the public or like, you know, that's a little bit less formal. But I shared that with Brian and he was like, that's a really fucking good idea. And I was like, thanks, man. And I mean, you know, I'm gonna spend probably 150, $200,000 on that because it turns out flying around the country on a private jets, expensive. And then Airbnbs and then finding locations. But, you know, it was cool talking to Brian. And Brian was like, just immediately got it. And he's like, yeah. He's like, but really, that's not that much money for like, the ROI that that brings. I mean, all the people in your Mastermind, you're building those relationships with them, like the networks, you're building all this kind of stuff. And it was like, so it's cool having Brian validate that. By the way, another cool thing I'm gonna do for that. I just had this idea yesterday is I'm gonna do a contest too, where somebody can, like, basically one person can win, like, the chance to come on the jet with me and my team and family and, like, as we fly around and do this. So I'm gonna do a contest where it's probably someone who can help with social media. And then basically I'll put a thing up where it's like, hey, come on. Like, you know, you have to join my email list. Make sure you like, you know, like me on Instagram and share this stuff. And they'll do things to get the, like to help it go kind of viral. But then I'll let people, like, all come in and apply, and we'll pick one person who starts with us in San Diego and literally is on the plane just traveling with me and my family for two weeks, going to all these masterminds, doing all this stuff. And then, like, on top of that, it'll be a sick. I think it's good from. It'll be a cool experience for somebody, but it's also really cool, like pr, right? Cause then if, like, I, for my PR team having this whole thing of like, you know, this entrepreneur wants to give you the chance to, like, get on a private jet and fly around the country with him as he, like, meets with other hundreds of other, you know, entrepreneurs and marketers and stuff and like, whatever, we'll figure out the exact phrasing. So it's better than that. But I think I can make that go pretty viral. Like, here's your chance to go fly around the country On a private jet with like a multimillion dollar entrepreneur. I think we made that go super viral. So even that alone, it's like, okay, yeah, it's gonna cost me 200,000, 250,000, whatever it's gonna cost me to do this. But like, even just from that like PR exposure, I can probably generate and then all the people that will then get on my email list and do those other things, you know, it pays for, the ROI is going to be there like 10 or 20 times or over. But anyway, Brian, back to the actual question from Audrey. You know, it was cool, you know, because Brian was like, I didn't have that contest idea yet. But Brian was like, that makes a lot of sense. That's really cool. We also talked about like ascension models versus dissension models and how I kind of often will do these dissension models, which is like starting with like Copy Accelerator, which is now 36,000 a year for the full membership. And we're actually going to raise it to 45,000 a year. It's like full, but starting at the event, it's going to be 45,000 a year. Unless you're already on the waiting list. So one of the reasons why joining Copy Accelerator Light is cool, right? But then I did like the RNBC method, which is 997, and then I did RNBC applied, which is what was $97 a month, and now it's 197amonth. But how I like to do these Ascension models where I start with these big high ticket things, but then I actually work backwards, whereas a lot of other people will come in and do an Ascension model where they start with the low ticket and work up to the high ticket. I kind of prefer starting with high ticket stuff and working backwards. So that's the dissension model working down versus an Ascension model that's moving up. And Brian is the one who kind of pointed out that I do that, which was a cool kind of observation because I was like, oh yeah, you're right, I do like this dissension model more than an Ascension model. For the publishing company that I'm working on, which I wanted to stress test with him and see his thoughts. And he overall really liked it. We talked about, you know, finding somebody who can. One of his big pieces of advice was like, hey, make sure you are, you know, you need somebody to really run that for you or you're gonna have like stress on your bandwidth really fast. You should find somebody who's, who has experience, who's already Done it. And I talked about somebody who I've thought about maybe having to really help to run it. And they're like, but that person is doing a bunch of other stuff. And Brian. Brian's advice was, well, basically, it's like, what can you. What would you have to pay that person to get them to only do this one thing for you? Like, so his idea, which I love that mindset too, it wasn't like, oh, this guy's doing other stuff, so I guess we can't work with him. It was like, coming to that person, being like, what would it take, right, to have you work, like, just on my stuff exclusively? And he talked about how when with boardroom, they would do the same thing where they're like, who's, like, the best in the road at whatever it is we need and say, do a list. And maybe it was like, like, Mark Ford or it was like David Deutsch or whoever it was. And sometimes they were able to get that person, sometimes they weren't, but they had that archetype of who my dream person is. Then as I go to look for other people, you can match their characteristics with the characteristics of your dream person. I thought that was a really cool way to think about when you're hiring folks. Think about who's the best in the road at whatever it is you want, and then can you get them? And if you can't, what are their characteristics? And then how do I match whoever I'm hiring to make sure their characteristics match that person? So that was a bunch of those takeaways. Yeah.

Amazing as always, Stefan. Thank you. Thank you very much.

Yeah, you're welcome, Ajin. Glad I could share, Ed. Let's do more. Let's do more.

Next one is from. I lost it. Jaz asked, how do you stay hungry at higher levels of success? Because I know as you get more successful, it gets more comfortable and people lose their hunger. So how do you keep the hunger you had early on long term?

Good question. What's up, Jaz? Yo, what's up, Stefan? What's up, man?

Yeah, that's a. I want to take preventative measures. So that's.

That's basically my question. How do you keep that hunger that you had on day one? Yeah, there's a couple of things for me, you know, one is like. I mean, there's a period for me where it was just taking pride in being the best. Like, I. One thing I would do. And this has changed a little bit to today. So I'm gonna give you two answers. I'm gonna talk about what my answer was like a year or two ago and what my answer is today. So a year or two ago, it was like thinking about someone. Like, it's funny because I don't like Tom Brady or the Patriots. Like, I'm not like a. Not a Patriots fan. But as an example, right? Thinking about, like, Tom Brady with football, right? Like, this guy wants to be the best every day. He doesn't show up to practice and half ass it. He's not sort of like phoning it in and thinking about these top, like, high performance, like, athletes that they're bringing it every day to practice, and they're bringing it to every single game. And I sort of like, for me, it works. And it was like a fun game to imagine myself as like, you know, the Tom Brady of, like, copywriting. So I'm like, you know, am I going to bring it every day? Am I going to be the best, or am I going to half ass it and phone it in? And I thought about how these other top performers don't do it, and that was kind of a fun motivational trick. The bigger answer for me, though, today is attaching what you're doing to, like, a why. Because, like, even though, you know, making lots of money is awesome and it never stops being awesome, but you get used to it. But I look at, like, a lot of the money that I make as just like, giving me. It's literally just like little soul. Every dollar is like a little soldier for me to deploy, you know, so I'm just reinvesting a ton of the money I make. I have a very, like, nonchalant attitude about money, honestly, sometimes to my detriment. Although somehow I've managed to, like, square away a good amount. But, like, talking about this private jet thing, it's like, oh, that's gonna be sick. I can rent a charter, a jet, fly around the country, meet all these people, have these amazing experiences, take my family, create this content. And that motivates me. That's like 250 grand is like a good amount of money, right? So I'm like, but I want to do it. And I can do it now, but it'll be even easier to do it as money keeps flowing in and all these things happen. So to me, knowing that I've got these cool goals that are attached to what I'm doing and that they take money, that makes me more motivated to be crushing it. Making money so I can continue to do more unique things, and ultimately it's attached to that why? Of trying to reach, you know, a billion people, make an impact on their lives, which means really having to put myself out there a ton. And whether that's like through PR or doing stuff on events and, you know, upping my Instagram game and all that. Plus, I need to be good at what I'm doing because I'm not a master of what I'm doing and I'm teaching this stuff, but I'm like, I fall off and I'm not good at it, then I don't think people should need to listen to me. I need to be authentically teaching stuff that I'm really good at and being authentic with it. So I want to stay on point with all that stuff too. So short term there's fun little mental tricks, but really if you attach it to a why and you focus less on the money and more on what the money will allow you to accomplish, what it lets you to do, that's a really good way to stay motivated. Because I'm not excited about making another whatever it is, a couple hundred grand or a million dollars. I mean, it sounds fucking crazy and I get it. Right? Um, but there's a time where I was for sure, because I promise you, it wears off surprisingly fast. It really does. And I've had so many people gave me that advice who are way ahead of me early on and they talked about it and I kind of was like, okay, yeah, easy for you to say. You know, wait till I'm making that kind of money. And then I made that kind of money and it wasn't great and I spent it on dumb stuff and whatever. But then it does. I'd rather be making that money than not making it, don't get me wrong. But like, the novelty of just making money for money's sake is really, It's a novelty and it's something that's very fleeting and short, like, you know, short lasting or whatever. But changing people's lives, like doing unique things, like doing things that nobody else can do, right? Like the fact that I can do that. I can charter this jet and travel the country and meet with people and help them. I mean, it's so sick. By the way, Ryan Scully just liked the video. Ryan Scully, I gave you a shout out last video. You probably didn't see it. Congratulations on being pregnant or, you know, having to having a baby on the way. But yeah, that's my main answer. Jaz does that helps out a lot. It's really, really deep. Good man. Ed, do you have anything you want to Add to that, I know, you know, you're. You're earlier on in your journey, but you're having a lot of success. Have you thought about that as far as staying hungry?

Dude, honestly, frankly, I have a bit of a hard time with that sometimes. Full transparency. I've been doing a lot of self work lately and diving deep into why I do what I do. And I'm still figuring it out right now. I'm just, you know, like, my biggest goal is to move out and live in my own place. That's like my biggest goal. But other than that, I don't have a huge why right now. And I think that's okay because you're not always gonna know exactly why you're doing what you're doing, as long as you just keep doing it and just do the self work to eventually figure it out until your why is complete or until, you know, you find a bigger why that is even bigger and better and pushes you further.

Yeah, it makes sense. One thing I'll say, too, about the whys is that I will often meet people who get burned out who don't have a why, but I rarely meet people who are burned out who do have a why. That doesn't mean it doesn't. You know, it's not like a perfect law, like, but generally those of a why, it's a lot easier to have the energy and the motivation and things like that because you have that purpose behind what you're doing. And then if you don't have it and you're just sort of doing stuff, but you're not. You know, we all want a vision towards the future, but I agree that, Ed, it's okay that you don't have one at this moment because it takes time to find your why. I don't think it's like you go to the why store and then somebody just. They're like, gives you a sticker with your why on it, and you're like, yay. But I do think thinking about those bigger goals, those bigger dreams, those bigger purposes, and, you know, it really. It does help a lot. So, yeah. Sweet Jazz. I'm glad that. Glad that helped.

Cool. Next up from. Oh, damn, he left.

All right.

Kimmy also left.

I know. Can we still do that? Can we do. There we go. Yeah.

Okay. Michael McGovern has a really good question here. Michael says, hey, guys, in the freelancer course, Ian. Ian Stanley, for those who don't know, talks about starting in chaos and then moving towards more focus as you, you know, get better. How do you Balance certain times in your life when you embrace controlled chaos, like meeting new people, exploring opportunities versus laser focus on a specific goal. So working in solitude and ignoring distractions, et cetera. It's a really good question.

It's a really good question. What's up, Michael? How are you? Hey, guys. What's up?

I'll guess.

Yeah, that's a good question. So what are you working on right now? What are your goals? Well, I want to get to a consistent retainer deals for copywriting. I've been doing a lot of project based work and so. But now I want to kind of maybe take some of the existing relationships I have and create some new ones that are a little more long term and so that I can kind of build a little more consistently. Got it. Yeah. And Ian, so I loved his chaos stuff when he did it at the live event we did. And then I was rewatching it in the Freelancer Freedom course and it was like I took a ton of notes on it because I loved it. So for those of you who are watching, who don't kind of know what Ian's whole idea, I mean, to paraphrase it, and obviously I'm not Ian, I don't have the accent or the chiseled jawline, but you know, it's like there's times where when you're starting a new venture or you're doing a new endeavor, like embracing chaos and exposing. It's almost like a chaos funnel, right? And like early on, like you want to be more exposure to chaos because you just never know. Like there's these weird cosmic ping balls, pinballs that are bouncing around and you don't know what's going to hit what. And then sort of as you achieve like more focus or mastery on something or as you're starting to get results, like you can start to kind of narrow it down more. So for like saying like what you're doing, Michael, I'd look at it like going to different events. I mean, events are hard to go to right now. But like, you know, going to events like posting in groups, being exposed to a lot of people makes sense because right now you're trying to, you know, get these retainer clients. So the more exposure, the better. Right? You want your pinball bouncing around and hitting more stuff. As you start getting more of those retainer clients and you don't, then you can limit your exposure to chaos more for the time being. And I think that's when I would. Then you start focusing and going deeper on actually the fulfillment of the Work. So I think first is getting the work, and that's more of the chaos side. And then I think you start narrowing down and limiting the chaos as you actually do the fulfillment of that work. That's the way I would approach it. Does that make sense to you? Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Cool. Yeah, man, I love that. I love that stuff about chaos, though. Has course been helpful overall for you so far? Yeah, Yeah. I picked up a couple of good things. Excellent. Yeah, especially your guys. Recorded event was some awesome stuff in there. Yeah, it's interesting. And then I also see what you guys were talking about with wanting to have something that appeals to different types.

Of people, because I felt like I.

Kind of in the. I've been at this, you know, at the whole entrepreneurship thing for about two years, and I think earlier on it was more wide. And then I got super, super focused. But then I kind of realized that didn't really fit my personality. Like, I love to be, you know, talking to people and networking and, you know, sharing ideas and stuff like that. So. So it's cool that you guys have, like, different approaches to different types of people. And then, you know, my challenge is it's just kind of settling into, you know, what's good, what fits right for me, and, you know, what. What. What do I think is right for me versus, like, oh, and still get stuff accomplished.

Right.

So, you know, I could be like, well, I'm just not the type of guy to sit down and focus for five hours. It's like, well, but if I need to do that and otherwise I don't get paid, then that's a problem. Right? So. So it's.

It's just kind of like figuring out.

You know, what fits my personality and what's. What's my best tact, like, my best strategy? Yeah, it makes sense. And I think, you know, even when you're exposing yourself to chaos, it's like there's still, like, the whole deep work aspect. So it's like still finding that time, putting on your calendar where you do your deep work, you work on your biggest needle movers and everything like that. And I think, yeah, we basically never want to get rid of that. There should almost always be that time allocated for deep work. Um, but if you do that and it's, like, really focused on those needle movers, like, again, we generally find that we spend a lot of time adding things into our day to, like, feel, like, good about ourselves, that we work 10 hours or 12 hours or whatever. But really, it's like, the important stuff could have Been done in, like, three to five hours, you know? And so a big thing there to be aware of is just, like, not feeling like you need to work really long days, but just feeling like you need to have really, like, focused days, you know, if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Cool. Awesome. Well, thanks for the question, man.

Awesome.

Thanks, guys. Yeah.

Sweet. All right, so there's a great question from John Caprani, although he's not on anymore, and people are asking us to answer it. So the question is, hey, Stefan and Ed, is there a daily schedule that you guys stick to doing things consistently at the same time? Do you guys switch between multiple projects in one day or allocate different days of the week, different buckets of V perk? And I have some answers for this as well.

Well, then go ahead, Ed. Since John's not on anyway, you can go and start. Cool.

And by the way, now, Luffy, that's not Eden. That's not Stefan's daughter. I'm outside in the balcony at the hotel right now. There's kids playing the pool.

And, yeah, Eden is. I can't hear her, but I think she's about to go to the store with Laura. But. But that. Yeah, that one wasn't needed. So.

The way that I like to compartmentalize everything, so switch between multiple projects in one day, let's start at the macro level before we get to the micro level. So this is also what I told Jaz. Jaz, I'm sorry. I'm giving this everybody as well. I love to compartmentalize my work into three things. So I only ever have three slots open for any type of work. So I like to have, as Ian Stanley calls it, money now, maintenance money, and money now to money later, ideally. So that means, like, money, which is just, like, pays your bills. So it's like if it's like a retainer client or money, you know, you've already got, money now is money you're gonna get in the next one to 30 days, and money later is money you're getting the 30 to 60 or 30 to 90 days. So I like to have three different projects at once, or up to three different projects. Three different compartments in my head. So I will not take on a client if those three compartments are maxed out. And this is completely fluid. I'm not saying you can't take on a bunch of projects at once, but I like to stick to three. Three big projects. And if it's like a lot of little stuff, like, you know, Facebook ads and then like, consulting, that would be at the third compartment. So for example, for me, for a while, my one compartment was working for a client and then one off sales letter. So this is like retainer gigs. That's my maintenance money. And then there's one off gigs. And then I did a pure performance deal for traffic and funnels and pure royalties. So retainer one and dones and then performance based. So it's riskier. Anything that doesn't fit in those categories, I don't do it or I adjust my schedule to make room for something, if that makes sense. Is that making sense, by the way? I don't know if that's like actually helpful or not. That's just me rambling.

It's making sense to me. How about if it's making sense to you, put in chat and if it's not making sense, say Ed? Nope. Yep, seems like it's making sense.

Okay, cool. I wasn't sure.

Yeah.

And so from there, I never want to focus on more than three big activities every day. So for example, let's say you have a sales letter, right? So at the beginning of my week, I schedule out what the right. What my entire week is gonna look like. And then I break. So I list out all the things I want to get done that week and then I take those big to do lists, like those big projects, and I break it down into every single day for next week. And I work on a little chunk of the project each day. So for example, if I want to write a new sales letter for client, let's say, you know, Monday I want to, you know, write, do the research and then Tuesday I want to do the mechanism into the brief and then Wednesday onto the day off, maybe Thursday I'll do like 50% of the copy and Friday I'll do the last 50% of copy. So it's an example. And then every day you don't want to have more than three big tasks for the whole day. So this is your 80, 20. These are your big rocks. These are your things that are going to move the needle the most for the least amount of work and they're going to make you the most money or whatever happens to be. So pick three of the most important things for the day and do those three things first. Everything else other than that's a bonus. Stephanie.

No, I mean, I'm honestly pretty, pretty similar and pretty aligned with what Ed does. Um, the other part. And then for me, I just have my reoccurring stuff. Like I really try. If something is going to be a regular meeting, I Make it reoccurring, like, right, I have this every Thursday at 10 Pacific Time. I have a call every Wednesday at 1:30. I have a call every Monday at 1:15. Like, I still have my reoccurring things and then I'll look at my calendar and schedule around there. But at this point, yeah, the way I look at it is like my big, My big needle movers where the couple of things that if I get these things done this week, I'm gonna be really happy. And they really move the needle. And what's all the other stuff that I'd like to get done? Right. And yeah, I do like an Eisenhower box. Like urgent, important, important, not urgent, blah, blah, blah. But just having like that like understanding that helps a lot because like we sort of list out like the problem is we're like, oh, I gotta do 40 things. And then you like, if you don't list them out and you don't like have them ordered and they have an order of operations and then you sort of like do some of them, but they're not the real needle movers. So then the big needle movers don't get done. You still feel anxious about it. You picked the wrong task. So it's like where you prioritize like, you know, the order of importance for your tasks is just really important. That's a huge thing that I do too. I just find that you have a lot more time in each week than you think you do. It's just you find ways to fill it with a bunch of shit that you don't actually need to be doing. And it can be hard. I mean, again, another thing too is like, even on Facebook, I'm active on Facebook and I'm reading everyone's posts and I'm looking at stuff and liking stuff. And I do feedback and copy accelerator, which I need to do after this call. But I spend time doing that every day. But even Justin stuff and talk copy. It's like I'm reading everybody's post but I'd want to comment, reply. But like, if I just start doing that, that maybe I can't do that this week. I've got too much going on, you know, or like emails that are not like actually that urgent. Like, so we have an urgency to want to reply to everything. But I really try to keep, you know, I just. If you've kind of tuned out the things that can, you can come back to, then like, great. So just really? Yeah. I'm pretty on board with you though. And just like those kind of top Things and the power of focus on a few tasks.

Yeah. And also find out when you're. When your most productive time is like. For me, it's in the mornings. And with the exception of Copy Accelerator and these calls, I make a very strict rule to not take calls before 12:12pm, like noon or 1pm because that's my. That's my peak productivity time.

Yeah, that's a really good one too. I'm also a morning person for productivity and again, my priorities have changed a little bit. I'm not writing as much copy. I still have. I have a couple projects to tackle here in the next couple weeks, but within the next couple months. But like yesterday as an example, I had like the Business Insider interview at 9 o', clock, which is awesome.

Right?

But I really had a game for that because it's like this business desire gets a lot of coverage and really cool. Then I had. Let me make sure I get this right. Oh yeah, the webinar I did of Justin at 10 o'. Clock. Then I had a call with somebody at noon from 12 to 1, then a call with my friend Eli who's starting a health company at 1 from 1 to 1:30. Then a call with the team of my supplement company from 1:30 to 2. And I had a second call for that from 2 to 2:30. And then from that point on I had the afternoon open to like write YouTube scripts, write retargeting for RNBC. I wanna do these YouTube RNBC ads and people have sent me some from RNBC Method and I'm gonna film them. I like started working on it and I just hit this mental wall and I got like cranky and my brain just straight up wasn't working and I just basically gave up and stopped working for the day. But I tried for a while and I was. My brain was just fried. Right. Because it was just so taxing between like this interview and then a webinar and then like meetings. And so generally that's why I'll try to schedule that stuff in the afternoon as much as possible because then I've already done my deep work in my writing and then I don't need to be like, as you know, it's easier to talk but. But that's where I really try not to schedule calls in the morning, just same as you. I will pretty fiercely guard against it actually. And by the way, Michael said business inside are gonna be video or wren that one's gonna be written pretty sure. And then actually I'm positive. So that'll be a Written one. And then the. The list TV is a video one that will be on their actual. I'll be on the television whenever that comes out. So, Ed, let's go on. Let's answer another question.

All right. Well, Kimmy do is not here, but she asked a great question. She asked if you could go back, what's one thing you would tell your younger self?

Do you ever get immediate answer? I want to definitely want to answer this one too, but I'm just curious if you have an immediate answer.

Enjoy the process. Like, don't be so hell bent on achieving everything. Everything's gonna come with time. Appreciate the grind, appreciate the struggle. Appreciate what you're going through, because it's exactly what needs to be done. And if you can't enjoy the hike, how can you enjoy the view?

Nice. I like that. By the way, what's up? Devin Yang, he said what up? And Billy Chattis Bella said, can we ask here? Honestly, if you ask questions in the Facebook Live, I'm probably not gonna answer them there because you gotta be on the zoom call. But yeah, I mean, I think, like, there's a lot because on one hand, okay, there's a weird. A weird tension for me between the fact that, like, this advice my dad gave me, which was that the cream tends to rise to the top, meaning that, like, sometimes we're really impatient and we're like, we want stuff to happen today. But, like, things will. If you put in the work and trust the process, you know, generally you will get the results. I guess the big thing for me would be like, being process oriented, right? Like understanding that if you, again, the processes yield to predictable outcomes. So whole reason RNBC works, it's like a process. And if you follow the RNBC method and you like, use that to write copy, you will consistently write better sales copy. It's like a predictable outcome that happens for rmbc. And I have, I don't know, like a thousand plus success stories at this point of people who have used RNBC and gotten these predictable outcomes of better copy. And then there's other benefits that come from that too. At the same time, I mean, I wish I had. I was always pretty contrarian. And so maybe I wish I could tell myself to like, embrace that contrarian nature more. And I wish somebody had had given. Honored that more in me perhaps because rather than feeling like there was something wrong with me a lot, you know, I felt like there was like I had something wrong with me because I didn't want to follow the status quo and I had this, like, crazy tension there and not going these traditional paths and having a lot of people, like, looking at me as being, like, you know, maybe a failure ADD or whatever it is. And, you know, thank God I finally just embraced my inner kind of, like, rebel and contrarian and went out and did my own stuff, and my life's dramatically better. So, you know, there's. There's basically, there's no right. I know I'm giving 10 answers. I'm kind of rambling, man. But, like, I guess another thing would just be that there's. There's really no singular path to where you want to go, right? There are processes, and processes lead to, like, predictable outcomes, but there's also. There's no, like, one path that leads you somewhere. You have to go to college and get, like, a, you know, a graduate degree in marketing to become a marketer. Right? Most of you on this call know that. And yeah, I talk with, like, I always say I've had. I don't know why it always happens in Ubers, but I've been to so many Uber rides where they ask me, like, the driver asked me what I do, and I'm like, yeah, you know, like, I kind of do marketing, and I'm entrepreneur. I sell stuff. And they're always like, oh, did you go to college for, you know, marketing? And I'm always like, no, I didn't. I studied philosophy. And they're like, oh, yeah. Like, yeah, I've thought about, I want to go do marketing, but I just have the time to go back to school. So, you know, I guess I'll never be an entrepreneur, really. And I'm like, how did you just have that crazy disconnect, right? Like, I literally just said, like, I didn't, like, study entrepreneurship or marketing, but, like, I've had that conversation, like, 20 plus times, and it's always just shocking to me. So, yeah, yeah, people do hear what they want to hear. Jazz. But it's so frustrating. It's so frustrating when somebody's like, you tell them, like, the truth, and then they just sort of, like, pretend they heard you, but they just repeat what they story they've already been telling themselves in their head for, like, you know, years and years and years. And this is just crazy shocking. But when you get through to people, it's really helpful. And one of the most rewarding things about doing Road to a Billion and my email list and stuff, and I. And I did that email to my list saying, hey, have I helped you get a win? And I got a lot of like, like wins, financial wins for people. But a lot of people talk about mindset shifts, realizing that these things are possible for them in their lives. And honestly, that's like just as rewarding as like a lot of the financial stuff is. When you hang around with like people on this call and in the chat or in these Facebook groups or you go to these events or whatever you do and you realize that like, you know, there's always people who are having success who are breaking through all these bullshit narratives that society tries to instill upon us and that we try to instill upon ourselves because of artificial beliefs that, you know, date back to our childhood. When you see someone break through that, it's like one of the most exciting and kind of fulfilling things that I experience in my life. Ed, more. More questions.

Let's do it. Excellent. With a great question here from Dom. Dom asks, when you were writing for a client and the work has exceeded the current retainer, how would you go about restructuring a deal with longtime client like that? For the context, I'm an email copywriter for an E. Common info product.

What's up, Dom? How's it going? Dom, you there? Dude, I'm really sad if I can't hear you, Dom, because I want to know how to actually pronounce your name correctly. Hear me? Yes. Okay. Thank God. So first and most importantly, how do we pronounce your last name?

All right. Charvalati.

Charval. Wait, sorry, I said one more time. Charvillati.

Yep, you got it.

Boom. Okay, perfect. Now we have that out of the way, which is incredibly important. So yeah, basically you've exceeded the current retainer and you want to restructure this deal.

Yeah, yeah. So yeah, they. They were actually. So I work with two other guys. We have an agency and these were actually our first clients. They came in, they were, you know, kind of on a smaller budget. They eventually left, then they came back and they're still at a point where they need more and more and it's hard to. Because you have. We have such a. It's become more of like a friendship at this point. You don't come with them often and it's just hard. It's hard to move them up the ladder when sometimes they. It's just the relationship. Now.

What was the original scope then on your guys end?

Okay, so it was. We did like a welcome sequence post purchase, you know, the general things. They're an e commerce store.

Right.

So basically get. Taking the new subscribers, converting them into buyers and then getting them to buy upsells currently they're trying to start like an info product along with that and then on top of that they're releasing like all these new product lines. So instead of now it just being daily emails and broadcasts, now it's like product launches. So it's definitely not part of the current package.

Yeah, so you're so basically on the retainer aspect. You were doing the daily emails and broadcast emails for them. Like it was a pretty set, defined scope. And with the product launches, like the new product launches, are you, you're doing sequences supporting the product launches and then are they also wanting kind of like same thing, post launch sequences, like you know, follow ups, like converting like people who didn't, you know, get the product and then even. Are there gonna be more like, like autoresponders and broadcasts for those people too?

Yes.

Yeah, I mean, I think it's like, I think it's reasonable to be candid with him on that though. I mean that's a totally another venture and more like, you know, a lot more work as you know and yeah, you're friends and. But I think if you, you know, to me like, I would just be like, you know, hey, like I'm super excited to help you with this. Obviously this is a totally new venture and it requires different work. So like I'm anticipating these are the additional hours that will be spent on this or the additional deliverables that are needed know, up front. And then these are the ongoing. So here's what the cost would be to help you with the, you know, each of these projects up front and then here's what would add to the retainer. Does that work for you guys? You know, do you feel like, do you think maybe you're just like sort of. Are you like hesitant to have that conversation because of the friendship aspect and you're sort of like, do you think that's why, do you think that's part of it? Do you think they're gonna say no? I'm curious about where the concern about having that conversation comes from.

So we actually had the conversation. It's just, I feel like we've kind of dug ourself into this little hole with them where they like, what they want these things. We tell them how much it's gonna cost and that because we've had this sort of candid conversation with them.

Right.

But they're afraid to. It's sort of like this scarcity mindset sort of situation with them because there are sort of like friends now that's like they don't Really, I would mean to speak candidly here. Like, maybe they really don't respect that. It's like the push of, like, hey, this is gonna cost this. We tell them. And then they're like, like, maybe we won't do that. We'll just do, like, regular broadcasts and promo. Promo emails about it to the regular list. It's just like, all right, guys. Like.

Yeah. I mean, I wonder if that, though, if it's almost like it's a whole, like, you can lead a horse to water, but she can't make him drink thing, you know, I mean, I think, you know, you can definitely position it as, like, the ROI and let them look at, like, you know, realize what they made with you already, what kind of ROI they've gotten, why they shouldn't. Yeah, but you say you've already kind of done that.

Yeah, we're like 58% of their sales.

Yeah. I mean, at a certain point, then I would just give up on them basically, and be like, but I wouldn't do more work. I'd just be like, all right, well, like, look, you know, I think this makes a huge difference, but, you know, if you're not ready to do it, no problem. And if you still need them as a retainer client, then keep using them as a retainer client or, you know, serving them as a retainer client within the limited scope you already have. But, you know, you had to give up on people, too. It was kind of like what we just talked about, honestly. People who. You tell them something, but they only hear what they want to hear. You know, there's certain people, maybe they're just not ready for this with you guys. And, like, I don't personally, like, bending over backwards to try. And if it's just not a fit, it's not a fit. And I'd rather just have a clean. A clean no on it. And yeah, at a certain point, they may change their mind on it, but, I mean, that seems like the only real outcome to me. I don't know, do you think I'm right or do you think that does that?

I. You're sort of confirming my own beliefs here. So it's really nice to hear it, like, you know, come out of, you know, someone like you, because I respect. Respect what you do, and, yeah, I really appreciate it.

Okay, cool. Yeah, I mean, really, I think that that's the outcome. I see Jaz agreeing in the chat, too, but. Yeah, keep us posted how it goes, man. But I. But I really think otherwise it's going to be continue to be messy and stressful. And it's gonna be a lot easier once this is be gonna like a clean like. Like outcome, you know what I mean? Versus up in the air outcome. Like just having that clean sort of break. And like, we do this for you. Great. That stuff. It's like, talk to me if you're ready to do it in the future. And they'll probably respect you more longer term and may even, you know, hire you for some of it too. But if they don't, no big deal. You can find other retainer clients to fill that void.

Thank you, Seth.

Cool. Happy to help, Jaz. I liked what you said, though. Jaz said in the chat, I avoid saving people. People need to save themselves. Yeah, Jazz, you said that. All panelists, bro. You've been dropping gold this whole time and then not realizing you were just doing it to rookie mistake. Jazz has been dropping like, little diamonds this whole time. But I agree. Just a quick note on that. I mean, like, I. I like giving people a chance to save themselves. You know, it's like, I will totally throw out the life, like, floaty thing, whatever it's called the flotation device, right? Yeah. I'll throw out the flotation device and somebody who's like, treading water, I'll be like, hey, grab onto this. And if they sort of don't, I may kind of like, remind them about it one time. But then I move on because, like, I do. There's enough people who need saving who are actually willing to be saved that it's not worth my time to, like, you know, it's more, I can help 10 people who want to be saved but don't know how to be saved versus, you know, in the same time, it takes me to like, really win over one person who doesn't even want to be saved. Right. It's like a diminishing returns thing. It's like, I'm gonna get way better return by helping people who actually are there. I mean, again, we can help them realize stuff for sure. But, like, and it's a challenge because it's frustrating when somebody just doesn't get it. But the end of the day, again, it's like, I'll worry about the. I'm trying to reach a billion people. I'll worry about those people who are like, really, really, really don't think they want to be saved or whatever. I'll worry about them later. But let's at least get the low hanging fruit. Let's get all the people who do know in their heart that they need something to change and are willing to do it, but they just don't know how to. They don't know the steps to take. They don't know how to grab out. And if I need to show them, hey, grab onto the flotation device and they start to do it, then I'll keep helping. And if they start to slip, I'll be like, no, hold it like this. And I'll pull in the rope and I'll do all this stuff. Right. But yeah, I'd rather focus on those people for this time. And I think the same thing as, like when you're serving clients as well. Bye, Keisha as well. Later, Keisha. Kaisha and Ray. We got about 15 minutes here. Let's do some more, man.

Next question. Unfortunately, Nikhil's not here anymore, but Nikola asked. I'm launching my first offer next week and just wanted to say thanks for the guidance. I'll be looking to hire copywriters to write advertorials in VSL soon. Considering I'm not a copywriter by trade, how can I best prepare to hire, manage and work with copywriters? What does a good working relationship look like between a copywriter and an offer owner?

Damn, that is a good question. I mean, one thing I would say is hire through Copy Accelerator. And you know the higher copywriter form we have which we should put in the show notes because if you want to hire, it's like literally we have a thing where people can clients fill out a form we put into Copy Accelerator. But then a lot of the jobs aren't actually for maybe at a level my mic just fell. Not at a level for Copy Accelerator members. But even when that happens, we will then add them to a copy accelerator light or we'll post them adjusting stuff and talk copy or whatever it is as far as the relationship goes. Ed, do you have. I mean, I have thoughts, but I want to formulate them for a second. Do you have anything that immediately comes to your.

Yeah, It's funny because I've worked on both the hiring end and on the freelance end, so I have a different perspective, I think.

So do I though, which is what's interesting because I've hired a lot of copywriters. Yeah, that's what I'm trying to formulate in my mind. What do I actually look for when I'm hiring a copywriter?

Because it's like I know that I'm reliable and like I'm gonna get things done when I sell me at them done. But most I Don't know. I've heard most cop, like copywriters are apparently notorious for being late on everything.

Fact. Factual. Yes.

Yeah, so it's like, you know, high touch point, like, hey, how's it going? Can you update me? Like, you know, do your best to get that copyrighted. Update you on what they're working on when they're working on it. Like, I do that automatically with my clients for the most part. Like whenever I, for you and Justin Stefan, like, I don't, I just go, hey, here's your thing basically when it's ready. But for other clients I'll be like, hey, I'm doing the research now. Hey, I'm doing the brief now. Hey, I ran into this roadblock. So do your best to invite an open communication and allow them to express any issues they have. And like, don't make them feel like by sharing a roadblock they have, they feel like they're dumb or not happy or like not a good copywriter. Because I know like sometimes from a copyright perspective it's like we're, we're potentially sometimes scared to share. Oh, hey, I'm having a roadblock with this little bit. Can you, can I, can I ask you for help for this section? But if you can be open with your, your people who you're hiring for being and being okay with giving direct feedback, I think that'll help you a ton.

Yeah, that's helpful. I've got some more thoughts too, which by the way, real quick, Noah said that Girling, he implemented your upwork strategy from Freelancer Freedom and he landed his first gig. So congratulations. No on that. And Girling, look at you changing lives. That is awesome. Some more thoughts I have. Okay, so where problems happen a lot is a misalignment of expectations. So one thing is having a really, really clear expectations of like, this is the project. Here are the outcomes I'm looking for. Here's like the deliverable I'm expecting. Here's what I want to look like. Here's the timeline I'm expecting it to be, to receive it in and things like that. And showing samples is really helpful too, right? If you're like, here are samples of other kind of similar funnels or projects or copy that I like, I would like, I'm expecting what you deliver to me to match like the tone and kind of style of these samples. Even stuff like in health, right. Like here are like the, I don't want you to use a made up story, you know, or like I don't care if you made A made up story, whatever it is.

Right.

But like, just all these things that are like really setting clear expectations before they start is really important to me. I think, yeah, you want the copywriter to be responsive, but I also think one who has. And this is this. Listen to this. If you're a freelancer too, it's really important. I want my copywriter to have, like, confidence and like, sort of have the give me the belief that they're gonna get the project done without me needing to hold their hand. Like, yeah, like, you shouldn't be afraid to ask for help as a freelancer or to ask a question. I think that's important. I still do that with clients all the time. But what I don't want is I don't want somebody who's kind of gonna come in and ask me for my opinion of everything. Like, what do you think of this headline? What do you think of this? What do you think of that? Is like, I'm hiring you to be the expert to do this stuff. So I don't necessarily want you to come in and like, ask me to make decisions across every single step of the, like, process or that becomes way more work for me. I'm trying to hire you to make my life easier and have less work. So if I feel like somebody's gonna ask me like a ton of questions about everything they're doing and like, need like, constant feedback, that's kind of actually a bit of a red flag for me as well. Conversely to that, we don't want like, arrogance either. Somebody comes in and they're so arrogant that you're trying to explain stuff to them, like what you need for the project, and they're acting like they're not like, listening and they're just kind of like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, then it's like, all right. I'm also not really liking that as well. So I know it's kind of a lot. But the biggest thing that I see, again this issue is like, not having a clearly defined scope of like, I'm expecting this deliverable. Here's the kind of sample as I'm expecting it to kind of look like this and match this. I'm expecting it in this timeline. Things like that are really important. One of the coolest things that the only person who's ever done this with me, and I was totally cool with it and he. And I laughed about it because, like, he was like, you know, this is what makes you different, is that Craig Clemons and I did a thing where we Agreed upon an upfront amount for a letter I wrote for him for going hippo. And then we did a thing where it was like, I got a bonus if I turned in my work at the. By the timeline I had said I would turn it in by. So I quoted him, like, four weeks or whatever, and I was like, if I did in four weeks, I got an extra $5,000. But then if I. For every week after that I was late, it actually started detracting from, like, the total amount I got paid. I even had to pay him back money if I was late. And he, like, proposed that because I proposed, like, that I wanted more money. And he's like, let's do it. Like that. I was like, cool. And then he was like, what if I do it so that if you're behind the deadline, then, like, I start, you know, taking money away from you. And I was like, that's totally cool. I love it. It's a great mechanism. And, like, I'll. You know, so you can even play around fun stuff like that. I thought it was kind of fun to do it that way, but hopefully that helps. And, Ed? Yeah. We probably have time for one or two more questions. Do it. Another good question from Ted Baker.

Really answered it.

How did it turn out? I honestly still don't really know, to be honest with you. I did a first version. It was for a big kind of guru person, and it was converting, but then they wanted to do some different variants based on the person, and then I did those, and I honestly don't know if the changes have ever gone live or not. So, Yeah, I still don't really know. It's kind of a little frustrating, but it is. What is? I don't blame him, Craig, for it. Their team just have a lot going on, you know, so. Yeah. Sorry, Ed.

No problem. So next up, we have Zacchaeus asking a question. Would you recommend a newbie copywriter learn from two or more mentors, copywriting legends, or just focus on one at this stage of learning to attain the skill set, Learning from the best in the game.

I would. I'm just gonna answer that one because I don't know if we could. Zach? Yeah, I think, like, I mean, it depends, right? So, like, Justin and I are technically two mentors, and if you join Coffee Accelerator, I certainly. I'm biased, but I think that's, like, reasonable. But we're also aligned in what we're teaching. We're teaching the same systems, right? It's not like I use RNBC and Justin uses XYZP. And, like, you know, we're, like, trying to teach both at the same time. You know, we're pretty aligned. But typically, I would say to focus on one mentor at a time, because I think otherwise you may get confused. You'd be all over the place. I really think it's important to have one system and, like, and one. So hopefully the mentor is teaching you, like, a replicable framework and a process and stuff like that. And assuming they are, I would use that one and master that one first. And then once you're done with that, then you can move over and try something else. I think that's the way to do it also.

The thing is, when choosing a mentor or somebody to learn from, be sure that they're actually doing what they're teaching, and they're not just teaching it because it makes them money. There's a lot of people in the copywriting space who have copywriting courses who are not actually copywriters, and they're not getting paid to write copy for people. They just sell the course.

Yeah, I mean, there's a. Like, I have trouble with that. Somebody was really hounding me about a mentor previously. And, like, you know, tell me who I should yo hire as my mentor. But it's like, dude, like, it's a hard decision. It's hard. That's a lot of weight for me. And it's like, there's. And I don't even know. I'm sure there's other really good mentors out. I mean, you know, Kim Schlom, a lot of people have had great success with Kim. Dan Ferrari is a really good copy mentor. Fran Rangel will mentor people. He's a good copy mentor. David Deutsch will do it. And then, of course, Copy Accelerator. The whole goal is, like, you get, you know, this sort of, like, copy mentorship, plus because you get the community access to all the trainings, a ton of additional stuff, plus you get RNBC in the framework. So that's why we like Copy Accelerator. But then there's. I can think of. I'm not gonna name names, but there's people I know who are copy mentors, where it's like, yikes, like, one dude. Like, I'm not gonna say anything, but, yeah, make sure. Good advice, Ed. Good advice.

Next question. Same stream of thought is, how do you go about finding a business coach?

I would like referrals. I guess we're doing rapid fire now, and I'm not putting people on. Anyway. Referrals. Talking to my network, leveraging my network. Seeing who they've used in the past, what were their experiences? Like, what was their story? Where were they when they started working with the business coach? Where did they get when the business coach. By the time they were done working with the business coach, does that actually align with what your goals are too? And then having like a pre call interview with the business coach and making sure that your personality is aligned and it seems like a good fit. Those would be the biggest things. Also, though, I mean, don't be afraid to hire somebody who's a little different. Like, I gave Monique Lindor a big shout out my Facebook page because, like, she helped to coach me. I hired her as a coach two years ago. And honestly, you know, she's like this, like, German chick who loves yellow and only wears yellow and, like, loves, like, pineapples. And it's kind of like, I don't know, very different personality. Right. And like, imagine it's like cheerful but kind of like severe at times. Like German woman, like, yelling at you. And I'm like, is this, like a good fit? But it was. She was awesome. She had these amazing systems and all this really cool stuff. But yeah, and I do like coaches who have actually done stuff, right? Because going back to, like, there's so many coaches out there. There's. There's always programs to make money as a coach. And it's like, you know, just advertise yourself as a coach and get clients and coach them. But it's like these dudes who were like an MLM and they sold vacuum cleaners before that, and then they bought some fucking gurus course about coaching, decided they're a coach, and now they're out there, like, doing LinkedIn prospecting and hitting up on Facebook and trying to be like, hey, like, would you benefit from a coach who can teach you a system? And it's like, you know, like, like, fuck that. Like, fuck those people. Don't hire those people.

There's nothing sketchier than people who have no experience who are coaches, who coach coaches on how to coach.

Yeah. As Ian will say. Yeah, I, you know, get someone who has a real experience, man. You know, that's so important.

I'm not saying that's a bad thing to coach people who coach coaches, but if you have experience, then, like, don't hire them.

Yeah. Oh, man. John could probably say he loves when I get salty. I do turns into salt. Bae. I know I get salty every now and then, but there's certain things that just piss me off.

Jazz Courtney said Spider man meme. It's like the two Spiderman's like point at each other.

Yeah, yeah, that's so good.

What are your best tactics for beating controls?

Going through if it's a good control, honestly going through and looking at big ideas, angles, hooks, things like that in the lead or in the first third of it that perhaps got buried, that weren't used or that maybe could have been brought up higher. Little things like testing headlines, like providing new headlines that maybe you're gonna hit harder if the headline is particularly weak. But really it's focusing on the headline and the lead and then moving up the big ideas as much as possible because like again, there's a lot. Even on good sales letters there may be some really interesting curiosity driven things that just were kind of buried. So I'm looking for those alternative angles and doing that. And Peter Tesma said, what about being controls for ads? Honestly, same thing. Kind of like even an ad maybe there's a big idea or you know, if you the ad leads to a page, on the page there may still be some like really interesting big ideas or angles or hooks that were buried that are there that aren't mentioned in the ad. But that may be way better. So even in a case like that, I'm trying to find like that buried stuff because there's buried stuff in almost every piece of copy that could have been like the lead. You got anything to add to that, Ed?

You got spot on.

Nice. Sweet. Okay, well Ed, look at this. I'm gonna, we're gonna end right on time. So awesome. Thank you. Said the goal in these road to building calls is so important to rinse therapy on YouTube to absorb it all things guys. Yeah. Thank you everyone for attending, for joining. Love you all. Appreciate you all so much as always. For all of you who are coming to the virtual copy starter event September 10th and 11th, really excited about that too. Obviously Ed will be there as well and hope you all have a wonderful rest of your week and a wonderful weekend as well. Have a great day everyone. Thank you.